The FCPS School Board is scheduled to vote on whether or not to close Clifton Elementary on Thursday, July 8, 2010.

The School Board is going to make a decision on the fate of Clifton Elementary even though there is no plan in place as to where those student's will go once their school is closed.

There is absolutely no benefit to the Clifton Community or to the taxpayer's of Fairfax County if the school is closed. In fact, closing Clifton Elementary will likely cause more problems with overcrowding and additional expense to taxpayer's in the long run.

Fairfax County created the Clifton community when they deemed this area to be a low population/low density area in order to preserve the Occoquan Water Shed, and that plan included a school to serve this community. Now the School Board wants to disregard that plan and close that community's school? An award winning school, in a community that clearly does not want expensive renovations?

What is wrong with this picture????

Does this topic really need ANOTHER thread?

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/364156.html

No sympathy from me on this...it would be nice for everyone to have a small, semi-private school in their neighborhood, but I just don't buy that there is NO economic benefit to closing Clifton Elementary. Also, prove to me that having these children go elsewhere will provide a sub-standard elementary education.

Nearly every notice put out by this group has had errors; funny when it's in support of an educational facility. To whomever is putting these out--you don't use an apostrophe to designate a plural.

"There is absolutely no benefit to the Clifton Community or to the taxpayer's of Fairfax County if the school is closed."

From the one they sent out this morning:

It is really anyone's guess at this point as to how the Board member's are going to vote, and it would be nice to reinforce our support to keep Clifton Elementary OPEN before they each raise their hand.

CheekyMonkey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Also, prove to me that having these
> children go elsewhere will provide a sub-standard
> elementary education.


While that is always the underlying idea, as it was with the South Lakes boundary adjustment, I think their main concern about sending the kids elsewhere is that they will lose their sense of community. There was also a terrible article in the Centreview that claimed several businesses in the area would have to close if the school was closed.

There is a town meeting hall adjacent to the fire station. Why is this not the center of the community?

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CheekyMonkey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Also, prove to me that having these
> > children go elsewhere will provide a
> sub-standard
> > elementary education.
>
>
> While that is always the underlying idea, as it
> was with the South Lakes boundary adjustment, I
> think their main concern about sending the kids
> elsewhere is that they will lose their sense of
> community. There was also a terrible article in
> the Centreview that claimed several businesses in
> the area would have to close if the school was
> closed.
>
> There is a town meeting hall adjacent to the fire
> station. Why is this not the center of the
> community?

The arguments around sense of community, breaking friendships and sports are not very compelling. Children are resilient and I am pretty sure that there are plenty of studies to show that they adapt pretty well to change. This is not the death of a parent...they are simply changing schools. Seriously, show me a more transient area in the country...are you going to tell me that the children of military families are irreparably harmed as a result of every PCS? I know that it happens in some cases, but if it was a universal problem we would hear more about it.

Plus, what businesses are we talking about here? Petersen's ice cream shop? Please! The Town of Clifton does not live and die based on the existence of an elementary school.

Sorry your white Johnny is going to have to sit next to black Malcolm or brown Jose or yellow Lee next year, but those are the breaks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Too many decisions being made with the tone of "We know best", not enough sharing of data.

http://files.connectionnewspapers.com/PDF/current/McLean.pdf

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Too many decisions being made with the tone of "We
> know best", not enough sharing of data.
>

The problem with the opinion article is that it assumes that there's data to be shared. From my experience with Floris' far too many redistrictings, the fact is, there's very little data, and what data there is is highly suspect.

With the RE taxes they pay down there, they should have been allowed to keep their local school.

This is pretty typical. People bitch about government spending too much, and then they bitch even more when government tries to cut spending. Grow the fuck up.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

So did SB vote to close Clifton? If so, by what vote and who opposed?

IMBY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So did SB vote to close Clifton? If so, by what
> vote and who opposed?

Yes, Clifton ES is finished.

Opposed were Hone and Evans. Hone even introduced an amendment to just do nothing for now. It failed. She rightfully said that there was no urgency in deciding Clifton's fate before the upcoming boundary study even begins.

You can thank heartless bitches like Liz Bradshaw and Kathy Smith for this mess. They have destroyed and torn apart a community, closed down a historic institution, and above all (especially in Bradshaw's case... who mind you is supposed to represent the district of Clifton as well as West Springfield, voted to close Clifton down) misrepresented the people of her district.

This really is a sad day. While there are some valid arguments as to why Clifton should be closed down, the "fixable solution" to the problem (that does not require closing the school), has been drowned out by majority of the school board's failed ability to see beyond the statistics and papers, and into the gravity of the real life circumstances. These people have torn apart a community, that has always been anchored down by its school.

In spite of all the negative talk and circumstances, I do want to extend a very large thank you to Ms. Hone, the school board member who with all her might defended Clifton Elementary and proposed a well-thought out amendment that could benefit all Fairfax County Schools as well as Clifton Elementary. Sadly, majority of the school board was too stubborn and too heartless to listen to Ms. Hones and what she had to say, and for that matter failed to listen to the Clifton Community as a whole.

The woman's name is Liz Bradsher not Bradshaw. I made a mistake with the spelling. Anyhow, she is the woman who betrayed her community and voted for Clifton Elementary to close.

I didn't follow the story closely, but it exemplifies a situation that has gone on for far too long now with politics:

Politicians ignoring the constituents that voted them into office, and caring only about what they want to do, rather than be the true "voice" of the people who elected them.

How can this Bradsher who apparently represents the Clifton district vote against what the vast majority of her constituents wanted?

It makes zero sense, and that is not what this country was founded to do. Government is supposed to be "of the people, by the people, for the people".

If other school board members disagree, so be it. But the school board member elected to represent those people must DO HER DUTY.

Liz Bradsher wants to run for County Supervisor. Often Board of Education Members next step on the ladder is County Supervisor.

Surely people can see that this was as much about political posturing as anything else.

If you watched last night, you would see how they brought up the current County Supervisors several times and specifically mentioned Pat Herrity (who would be Liz Bradsher's opponent when she runs for that office). Did you also hear West Springfield HS mentioned and the question as to WHY it was mentioned since there are other schools ahead of it? Well here is the real answer - WSHS is IN Liz Bradsher's District! She would need their vote to become County Supervisor and beat Pat Herrity.

Hopefully WSHS will see through this political nonsense and how it has now irreperably damaged another community. My children were CRYING this morning when we had to tell them that the Board voted to close the school. Would WSHS wanted to have to tell their children that? Clifton didn't want a renovation and would have been more than happy to give their slot on the queue to WSHS. They could have gone to #1 in the queue versus just being bumped up a couple of years if Liz had really supported it. They are the Board Members and can vote for whatever they want.

Shame on Liz Bradsher! She shouldn't be a Board of Education Member and should NEVER become a County Supervisor.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry your white Johnny is going to have to sit
> next to black Malcolm or brown Jose or yellow Lee
> next year, but those are the breaks.


So Clifton residents are racist because they want to keep open a school that's actually performing well? I don't get the connection.

k Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sorry your white Johnny is going to have to sit
> > next to black Malcolm or brown Jose or yellow
> Lee
> > next year, but those are the breaks.
>
>

First of all, Clifton is not all "white Johnnys". Secondly, we had hoped more students would be able to come to the school and said so many times and would have very much welcomed it.

Haven't you posted this same comment on other boards before? What is up with that?

It went through so get over it.

boooohooo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It went through so get over it.


STFU. It must be nice to be blissfully ignorant and not care about how the FCPS School Board is screwing Fairfax County and wasting your money.

Clifton wanted nothing, asked for nothing, demanded nothing. The Board said the water is contaminated in the beginning this BS a year ago as the main excuse to close Clifton. But then they fixed the water, which made that obsolete as an excuse to close the school.

So suddenly the main excuse was there's no fire sprikler system, it's unsafe! The fire sprinkler system was shown to be an easy fix, for a much lower dollar amount that originally predicted by the School Board's Staff (imagine that!!!).

So suddenly the school's enrollment is dropping! BASED ON WHAT???? Housing records and birth rates from 2008 for zip code 20124. What the hell happened to the other two zip codes that attend Clifton Elementary??? If those two zip codes, which coincidentally include 2 of the most heavily populated neighborhoods in the Clifton attendance area had been included in the projection, the projected enrollment would have been much higher, and certainly more accurate.

And for those of you screaming that the School Board is saving tax dollars by closing the school.....how much do you think they spent over the last year putting on this dog and pony show called the SW Regional Planning Study? How much was spent fixing the "contaminated" well just 1 month ago? Which was fixed, and the water was fine. How much was spent on the Feasibility Study in the very beginning of this? How much was spent on 2 different property appraisals in the last two years?? How much $$$$ have they wasted to decide to close a school?? $2 million? $3 Million? That would have been more than enough to fix the so-called "safety" issues at Clifton. So that's $$$$$$$ down the drain to close a school?? How does that save taxpayer money?

Liz Bradsher played this community like a fiddle... Bravo, Liz!!! It was a fine performance! You should be proud, and also know that you haven't fooled everyone. There will be an election next year, and I think I can safely speak for the entire Clifton Community when I say, We CAN'T WAIT to vote against YOU!

I couldn't agree more with the post above. Completely true!

wtf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> boooohooo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> Liz Bradsher played this community like a
> fiddle... Bravo, Liz!!! It was a fine
> performance! You should be proud, and also know
> that you haven't fooled everyone. There will be
> an election next year, and I think I can safely
> speak for the entire Clifton Community when I say,
> We CAN'T WAIT to vote against YOU!


Wow, the entire town of clifton wont vote for her.... How many is that 100 people? Quit crying like a little girl booohooo booohooo

The district of Clifton has far more than 100 people. Maybe you could use a little elementary school education yourself.

CliftonRed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The district of Clifton has far more than 100
> people. Maybe you could use a little elementary
> school education yourself.

I would go to clifton ES but apparently there will not be a elementary school their anymore.. Where shall I go big red?

boooohooo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.
>
> I would go to clifton ES but apparently there
> will not be a elementary school their anymore..
> Where shall I go big red?


Go to Asbestos Elementary School which they are eventually going to push on taxpayers and build next to Liberty Middle!

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> boooohooo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> .
> >
> > I would go to clifton ES but apparently there
> > will not be a elementary school their anymore..
> > Where shall I go big red?
>
>
> Go to Asbestos Elementary School which they are
> eventually going to push on taxpayers and build
> next to Liberty Middle!


Asbestos?? Are you serious. OMG did you get the blueprints to the place? Do the BP say where they are going to put the Asbestos

The utter shock of [spoiled] folks not getting what they wanted for once is quite telling in these Clifton threads. It does make one wonder what the fear is with losing this school. Clifton isn't diverse, and I do think WTL may be on target with his assertion.

Census: The racial makeup of the town was 98.92% white, 0.54% Asian, 0.54% from other races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.54% of the population.

It is in the ground. Well documented too. When they dig it up in order to build the new school the fibers become airborne. Hope you don't have any children attending Liberty Middle or playing on the fields over there while fibers are floating through the air. Asbestos can cause cancer. The Board kept mentioning their concern for the 'safety' of children at Clifton. If they obviously knew about the asbestos in the ground and are so concerned about safety than why was there EVER a proposal to build a new school next to an existing school known to have asbestos in the first place? Things that make you go hmmm.....

Now that they have now closed Clifton and since there is so much GROWTH on the other side of 29 with no place left to build, eventually they will have to build there AND YOU will get to pay for it! You, Fairfax County parents, are fools and are going to get cornered into this.

You won't be the first ones though that have to deal with asbestos.
http://www.asbestosnetwork.com/news/nw_061705_eldorado.htm

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The utter shock of folks not getting what they
> wanted for once is quite telling in these Clifton
> threads. It does make one wonder what the fear is
> with losing this school. Clifton isn't diverse,
> and I do think WTL may be on target with his
> assertion.
>
> Census: The racial makeup of the town was 98.92%
> white, 0.54% Asian, 0.54% from other races.
> Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.54% of the
> population.

Spoiled? That's rich (no pun intended). FCPS says the school does not have a fancy enough stage or a media center that has the fanciest equipment, should have better this and better that and Clifton says they don't want it - give it to somebody else! Then you come on this thread with nothing but comments about RACE and calling Clifton spoiled. That's downright hilarious. Maybe you need to look inward.

OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is in the ground. Well documented too. When
> they dig it up in order to build the new school
> the fibers become airborne. Hope you don't have
> any children attending Liberty Middle or playing
> on the fields over there while fibers are floating
> through the air. Asbestos can cause cancer. The
> Board kept mentioning their concern for the
> 'safety' of children at Clifton. If they
> obviously knew about the asbestos in the ground
> and are so concerned about safety than why was
> there EVER a proposal to build a new school next
> to an existing school known to have asbestos in
> the first place? Things that make you go
> hmmm.....
>
> Now that they have now closed Clifton and since
> there is so much GROWTH on the other side of 29
> with no place left to build, eventually they will
> have to build there AND YOU will get to pay for
> it! You, Fairfax County parents, are fools and
> are going to get cornered into this.
>
> You won't be the first ones though that have to
> deal with asbestos.
> http://www.asbestosnetwork.com/news/nw_061705_eld
> orado.htm


You have no facts, try again. You posted your source from a webiste in CA.

OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is in the ground. Well documented too. When
> they dig it up in order to build the new school
> the fibers become airborne.


Where are the documents? high concentrations of Asbestos is in the ground all over virgina because it is naturally occuring

Big bite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is in the ground. Well documented too.
> When
> > they dig it up in order to build the new school
> > the fibers become airborne.
>
>
> Where are the documents? high concentrations of
> Asbestos is in the ground all over virgina because
> it is naturally occuring


FCPS website. Environmental Assessment Map, Liberty Site.
http://www.fcps.edu/news/swcountyschls.htm

It's all about COST of removal and SAFETY. If they have done this before right next door to an existing school containing children in classes and playing on the open fields while they are doing it, please let us know where.

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dane Bramage Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The utter shock of folks not getting what they
> > wanted for once is quite telling in these
> Clifton
> > threads. It does make one wonder what the fear
> is
> > with losing this school. Clifton isn't diverse,
> > and I do think WTL may be on target with his
> > assertion.
> >
> > Census: The racial makeup of the town was
> 98.92%
> > white, 0.54% Asian, 0.54% from other races.
> > Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.54% of
> the
> > population.
>
> Spoiled? That's rich (no pun intended). FCPS
> says the school does not have a fancy enough stage
> or a media center that has the fanciest equipment,
> should have better this and better that and
> Clifton says they don't want it - give it to
> somebody else! Then you come on this thread with
> nothing but comments about RACE and calling
> Clifton spoiled. That's downright hilarious.
> Maybe you need to look inward.


The Clifton school should have been closed ten years ago. The upper middle class locals have fought this for years. The same kind of stuff went on in the late 60's / early 70's when the Fairfax county schools were forced to give up the seperate but equal plan. This closure may help some of the private schools in the area just like it did back then.

Why don't all you Cliftonites get together and incorporate as a city? Then you can have your own school board, like Fairfax City.

BTW, it is our understanding that the building of the new school is now off the table. It seems like common sense to ask, though, since they have now decided to close Clifton Elementary and there is crowding by 29 and there are no other properties owned by FCPS, where do you think they are going to eventually build? Hmmm......

OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW, it is our understanding that the building of
> the new school is now off the table. It seems
> like common sense to ask, though, since they have
> now decided to close Clifton Elementary and there
> is crowding by 29 and there are no other
> properties owned by FCPS, where do you think they
> are going to eventually build? Hmmm......


Did you guys see the little kids on the news tonight?? Its one thing to be a snobby racist yourself but quite another to whore your kids out on the television news. I know these Clifton bitches will burn in hell forever.

My heart goes out to all Cliftonites. This is a travesty.

But I must ask, how did you let this happen? Politicians all have their price, and you should have been writing checks for years before this happened. You don't have to buy the entire board, just a majority!

The school board wouldn't have even dreamt of closing one of our community (Great falls) schools, let alone do it. Same with redistrictings, they wouldn't dare.

Tying red ribbons on sign posts is a cute gesture, but totally ineffective. All these people understand is cold, hard cash!

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then you come on this thread with
> nothing but comments about RACE and calling
> Clifton spoiled. That's downright hilarious.
> Maybe you need to look inward.

It seems that I have struck a chord with the census facts. Not very far from the truth, am I?

Look, I have no problem with your town's sense of entitlement, but the effort of the merry band of KKKliftonites was an epic fail due to the fact that this school had to be closed for fiscal responsibility and stewardship of county funds.

OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is in the ground. Well documented too. When
> they dig it up in order to build the new school
> the fibers become airborne. Hope you don't have
> any children attending Liberty Middle or playing
> on the fields over there while fibers are floating
> through the air. Asbestos can cause cancer. The
> Board kept mentioning their concern for the
> 'safety' of children at Clifton. If they
> obviously knew about the asbestos in the ground
> and are so concerned about safety than why was
> there EVER a proposal to build a new school next
> to an existing school known to have asbestos in
> the first place? Things that make you go
> hmmm.....
>
> Now that they have now closed Clifton and since
> there is so much GROWTH on the other side of 29
> with no place left to build, eventually they will
> have to build there AND YOU will get to pay for
> it! You, Fairfax County parents, are fools and
> are going to get cornered into this.
>
> You won't be the first ones though that have to
> deal with asbestos.
> http://www.asbestosnetwork.com/news/nw_061705_eld
> orado.htm


You're a scaremongering idiot. Do some research. The entire Clifton/Centreville/Fairfax area is rife with natural asbestos rock and guess what? That land gets developed. All the time. Oak Marr, Little Rocky Run, Random Hills, all that crap along 29 from Jermantown to Holly Avenue, that new ballfield off of Braddock right off of the Parkway, etc., etc.

It's not the same asbestos that you put into buildings and it's not even regulated by the EPA or Virginia. However, the Fairfax County Health Department has two directives that govern how to work in these types of areas. It's perfectly fucking safe. After the site work is completed they need to put 3"- 6" of "clean" soil on the site when done. Your little snowflake isn't going to get lung cancer. The original Clifton Elem. building probably has a ton of lead paint and real asbestos in it.

Lots of cussing and assertations, but where are your facts In the Know? Here are some actual facts: The EPA report notes that the risk of contracting an asbestos disease increases based on several factors: higher levels of asbestos fibers in the air, higher frequency of asbestos exposure, longer duration of exposure, and the time that elapses after asbestos exposure. Since children have a longer life expectancy than adults, a child exposed to asbestos may have a greater risk of developing an asbestos disease than does an adult.

Again, In the Know, where has FCPS disturbed the asbestos with children immediately adjacent and playing out in the fields and in school? Where? When? We would really like to know.

http://www.asbestosnetwork.com/news/nw_061705_eldorado.htm

OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of cussing and assertations, but where are
> your facts In the Know? Here are some actual
> facts: The EPA report notes that the risk of
> contracting an asbestos disease increases based on
> several factors: higher levels of asbestos fibers
> in the air, higher frequency of asbestos exposure,
> longer duration of exposure, and the time that
> elapses after asbestos exposure. Since children
> have a longer life expectancy than adults, a child
> exposed to asbestos may have a greater risk of
> developing an asbestos disease than does an
> adult.
>
> Again, In the Know, where has FCPS disturbed the
> asbestos with children immediately adjacent and
> playing out in the fields and in school? Where?
> When? We would really like to know.
>
> http://www.asbestosnetwork.com/news/nw_061705_eldo
> rado.htm


Maybe it's a different soil type. Maybe they didn't put 6" of clean dirt on top of it. Maybe El Dorado CALIFORNIA doesn't have any regulations whatsoever and developers can do whatever the heck they want to. Maybe you should do some more research into their situation before making an apples to apples comparison.

Furthermore, FCPS isn't going to disturb the asbestos rock themselves. Their contractor is, if they encounter it at all. That stuff could be 20 feet below the ground. Of course, it could also be 6" underground. Big deal. Developments have been going on in these areas of FFX Co. for decades, some right next to established neighborhoods. Nobody is dying of asbestos related lung cancer from Ryan Homes digging a sewer trench 30 yards away.

Grasp at those straws. Grasp at anything that can keep your lily white, Norman Rockwell existence in place and your children away from those pesky brown people.

OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of cussing and assertations, but where are
> your facts In the Know? Here are some actual
> facts: The EPA report notes that the risk of
> contracting an asbestos disease increases based on
> several factors: higher levels of asbestos fibers
> in the air, higher frequency of asbestos exposure,
> longer duration of exposure, and the time that
> elapses after asbestos exposure. Since children
> have a longer life expectancy than adults, a child
> exposed to asbestos may have a greater risk of
> developing an asbestos disease than does an
> adult.
>


Time to condemn Little Rocky Run.

OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of cussing and assertations, but where are
> your facts In the Know? Here are some actual
> facts: The EPA report notes that the risk of
> contracting an asbestos disease increases based on
> several factors: higher levels of asbestos fibers
> in the air, higher frequency of asbestos exposure,
> longer duration of exposure, and the time that
> elapses after asbestos exposure.


Technically true, but unless your children are mining raw asbestos or combating the recession by removing old pipe insulation for some fly by night contractor, they'll be fine.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

taxpayer47 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BTW, it is our understanding that the building
> of
> > the new school is now off the table. It seems
> > like common sense to ask, though, since they
> have
> > now decided to close Clifton Elementary and
> there
> > is crowding by 29 and there are no other
> > properties owned by FCPS, where do you think
> they
> > are going to eventually build? Hmmm......
>
>
> Did you guys see the little kids on the news
> tonight?? Its one thing to be a snobby racist
> yourself but quite another to whore your kids out
> on the television news. I know these Clifton
> bitches will burn in hell forever.


The new fight song of the save clifton school movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4toJ7yaTbI&feature=related

This decision has everything to do with a continuing spat between the School Board (angry teenager) and the Board of Supervisors (Mom and Dad). When Mom and Dad don't cough up money in the volumes requested by the teenager, the teenager takes out their rage on the family belongings (aka Clifton Elementary). Now it will be interesting to see how Mom and Dad react. I'm betting it isn't going to be by writing fat checks to the teenager....and unfortunately this childish spat will continue until the School Board realizes who really is in charge around here.

Dear Clifton Community,

As I have previously posted, I watched with interest (and heartbreak) the farce the other night on cable. My heart goes out to you. As I had (unfortunately) predicted, BRADSHER was a traitor. While elected to represent you (and WSHS), she only advocates for her South County "Stepford Wives" community. COMMUNITY . . .what an interesting word. Bradsher was willing to move heaven and earth to support a "COMMUNITY SCHOOL" in SOCO . . .witness the SOCO Middle School (a totally new school vice an add-on to SOCO Secondary because her little darlings "DESERVE"--their words, a middle school). Witness Laurel Hill. (another COMMUNITY school . . .what a UNIQUE concept). Spend those taxpayer dollars, Lizzie, for YOUR COMMUNITY SCHOOLS, but who cares about the rest of the COMMUNITY that you SUPPOSEDLY represent??!! I bet you don't even have the courage to read these posts!!!
"
I also laughed (as many of you did) when her "brilliant daughter" sent her a text re: water quality issues at Clifton which she then presents as "fact." A SOCO student (a qualified expert, of course) relaying facts about Clifton's water issues.

TIME TO CASHIER BRADSHER! (and again, I don't have a kid in this fight). I am just an "interested observer" who has been watching Bradsher's hypocrisy of SOCO support vice Clifton and WSHS . . .(or as Lizzie might say . . .CLIFTON AND WSHS WHO??????) What happened to representing the interests of the people you represent, Lizzie? Kudos to Tina Hone!!!!!

I love all the hatred flowing through this thread about "rich white people" and how they whine and complain about their school closing down. Fuck you all. It doesn't matter if the people are rich and white. Anyone, including all the people who comment on this thread that has nothing to do with them, would gripe about their school closing.

Don't make the jealous rants of "hahahaha you rich fuckers got what you deserved" simply because you dont have money or a good enough school to be districted to. I'm sorry to all the lifeless computer zombies, dull and pitifully insignificant suburban posters and bloggers who will amount to nothing in life... that these "rich white people" got somewhere (unlike you) and they deserve to bitch about whatever they please.... after all guess who pays more in tax money then your sorry suburban mediocre asses.... all those "rich white people". Next time try leaving your tiny shithole of a house, or let's make baby steps... your computer.... not go to a fucking joke of a school... get some motivated and succeed in life. Being a "regular" or a "troll" on Fairfaxunderground is nothing to be proud of, it's simply something to pity.

*motivation

God forbid there be a school filled with majority white children...no that makes it segregated. God forbid one elementary school isn't flooded with illegal immigrant children.

Bradsher needs to go Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love all the hatred flowing through this thread
> about "rich white people" and how they whine and
> complain about their school closing down. Fuck you
> all. It doesn't matter if the people are rich and
> white. Anyone, including all the people who
> comment on this thread that has nothing to do with
> them, would gripe about their school closing.
>
> Don't make the jealous rants of "hahahaha you rich
> fuckers got what you deserved" simply because you
> dont have money or a good enough school to be
> districted to. I'm sorry to all the lifeless
> computer zombies, dull and pitifully insignificant
> suburban posters and bloggers who will amount to
> nothing in life... that these "rich white people"
> got somewhere (unlike you) and they deserve to
> bitch about whatever they please.... after all
> guess who pays more in tax money then your sorry
> suburban mediocre asses.... all those "rich white
> people". Next time try leaving your tiny shithole
> of a house, or let's make baby steps... your
> computer.... not go to a fucking joke of a
> school... get some motivated and succeed in life.
> Being a "regular" or a "troll" on
> Fairfaxunderground is nothing to be proud of, it's
> simply something to pity.


Have you ever gotten anyone to give a shit about anything youve had to say before?

Too funny -
To boooohooo, CheekyMonkey, OMG, Dan Bramage, taxpayer47, IntheKnow -
Hi Liz, we know it's you - enjoying this?
Don't you have some baby seals to beat to death?

Oh - OMGisRIGHTisSTUPID - Hi Stu - how are you puppetmaster? Proud of your protege?

To Warhawk -
The taxpayers would mine asbestos - it's called construction you dolt. Tisdadt is a liar (what word is worse than liar?) - 'we didn't find any asbestos when we built Liberty' - guess what, chief? Core samples from the build are publicly available...and yeah, it's been built on - just not with kiddies over the decontamination wall on all sides - up to 300 meters needed for buffer so Johnny, Janie, Javier, Josephina and Jamal don't SUCK it every day at Liberty and the christian school & church across the street.

Oh, if they don't build there - just spent a year and $2M taxpayer bucks - yup, that's you WashingTone Locian.
Fraud, incompetence or negligence? Dunno, take your pick.

Sorry - IntheKnow - on a reread, hi Stu.

Hope you are having fun.

taxpayer47 - the folks in Clifton whored out their kids, Liz? how about dragging your daughter into your little well water fight - a new low, clap clap - congrats for a new record. PS - report's in - water's fine...unlike the koolaid you are dishing out.

BTW, if you'd both throw out the 2000-2500 illegals that PW had the guts to kick out, plus all the ones already in FC choking us to death with our budget, we could do what we needed for the children of taxpayers in our county...that's what, 3 - 4% of the entire student enrollment? Someone call ICE.

WashingTone-Locian

hey, superlib - buy a house in ffx station or clifton...it's a free country. last i heard, real estate agent's are happy to make money off anyone - it's all green baby, all green.

just don't hope you have any kids - whatever color - b/c there's no place for them to go to school.

other than that...

a picture's worth a 1,000 words
Attachments:

SayWHAT?! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a picture's worth a 1,000 words

Now Liz the BITCH has another name that she can use, Liz the WITCH.

She needs to get doused with water during the next election so she can melt away from ever holding public office again. Clifton's single biggest mistake was actually believing her campaign promises. Shame on Liz!

Will Liz get the Republican endorsement next year?

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> To Warhawk -
> The taxpayers would mine asbestos - it's called
> construction you dolt. Tisdadt is a liar (what
> word is worse than liar?) - 'we didn't find any
> asbestos when we built Liberty' - guess what,
> chief? Core samples from the build are publicly
> available...and yeah, it's been built on - just
> not with kiddies over the decontamination wall on
> all sides - up to 300 meters needed for buffer so
> Johnny, Janie, Javier, Josephina and Jamal don't
> SUCK it every day at Liberty and the christian
> school & church across the street.


You clearly have no clue. In The Know's post was pretty much spot on. But I guess we can't let facts get in the way of ruining your little bitchfest. Enjoy your new school!!!

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.
Attachments:

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MommyLion Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > To Warhawk -
> > The taxpayers would mine asbestos - it's called
> > construction you dolt. Tisdadt is a liar (what
> > word is worse than liar?) - 'we didn't find any
> > asbestos when we built Liberty' - guess what,
> > chief? Core samples from the build are publicly
> > available...and yeah, it's been built on - just
> > not with kiddies over the decontamination wall
> on
> > all sides - up to 300 meters needed for buffer
> so
> > Johnny, Janie, Javier, Josephina and Jamal
> don't
> > SUCK it every day at Liberty and the christian
> > school & church across the street.
>
>
> You clearly have no clue. In The Know's post was
> pretty much spot on. But I guess we can't let
> facts get in the way of ruining your little
> bitchfest. Enjoy your new school!!!


And Warhawk is an expert because he saw some dirt get blown up while playing with Playstation 3.

Warhawk deserves a photography award for his artistic talents! That picture of Liz Bradsher is hilarious!

Sorry Warhawk didn't post that, but whoever did is completely correct on the portrayal of the wicked witch.

I agree that the posts about "rich white" people wanting their own school are ridiculous. A couple of years ago the board decided to close Graham Road Elementary School---ostensibly because the grounds were not big enough or it wasn't safe or whatever. That school is overwhelmingly Hispanic and Asian and those people did not want to move to another school because their school is part of their COMMUNITY. They enjoyed walking their kids to school and being close to their school (what?---poor brown people want a community school too?). This has nothing to do with being rich or poor or brown, black or white. It has everything to do with community---and this is not just about the kids. Schools create community for the ADULTS too. All kinds of events at school bring neighbors together (clubs, music programs, scouts, sports leagues, carnivals, etc.) Also the school board did not tell people where these kids will be going to school (and it sounds like it will be divide and bus).

I don't live in Clifton and I don't have elementary aged children, but I did grow up in a rural setting (whose elementary school has since been closed). All I can say is that the Clifton voters can make a difference in an election with Liz Bradsher. Those elections often don't have big turnouts---and the Clifton voters can and should make a difference.

The folks in Clifton have only themselves to blame. For years they have tried to keep Clifton exclusive by zoning large parcels and keeping VRE out. Now you have an aging population, housing that is too expensive for young families resulting in too few kids to justify an Elementary school. Good job.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

I've read the articles, editorial and letters in the Fairfax County Times, plus the posts here and do not see a factual or compelling reason why Clifton should remain open. The tone of the posts is generally senseless anger like the one below, and beside "we don't want to close because our kids go there", there doesn't seem to be a reason why it shouldn't close.

I also think that the town of Clifton and the sparsely populated area that surrounds the town will be hard pressed to garner enough votes to oust Bradsher if in fact she does have the support of the rest of her district.

Only time will tell.



Bradsher needs to go Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love all the hatred flowing through this thread
> about "rich white people" and how they whine and
> complain about their school closing down. Fuck you
> all. It doesn't matter if the people are rich and
> white. Anyone, including all the people who
> comment on this thread that has nothing to do with
> them, would gripe about their school closing.
>
> Don't make the jealous rants of "hahahaha you rich
> fuckers got what you deserved" simply because you
> dont have money or a good enough school to be
> districted to. I'm sorry to all the lifeless
> computer zombies, dull and pitifully insignificant
> suburban posters and bloggers who will amount to
> nothing in life... that these "rich white people"
> got somewhere (unlike you) and they deserve to
> bitch about whatever they please.... after all
> guess who pays more in tax money then your sorry
> suburban mediocre asses.... all those "rich white
> people". Next time try leaving your tiny shithole
> of a house, or let's make baby steps... your
> computer.... not go to a fucking joke of a
> school... get some motivated and succeed in life.
> Being a "regular" or a "troll" on
> Fairfaxunderground is nothing to be proud of, it's
> simply something to pity.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The folks in Clifton have only themselves to
> blame. For years they have tried to keep Clifton
> exclusive by zoning large parcels and keeping VRE
> out. Now you have an aging population, housing
> that is too expensive for young families resulting
> in too few kids to justify an Elementary school.
> Good job.


Do you even know what you are talking about??

"For year they have tried to keep Clifton exclusive by zoning large parcels and keeping VRE out."

Clifton residents had nothing to do with the zoning that keeps Clifton from building on anything less than 5 acres. You can thank the Fairfax Co. Zoning Dept. for that when the created the Occoquan Watershed to protect the public water supply.

"Now you have an aging population, housing that is too expensive for young families resulting in too few kids to justify an Elementary school."

Again, clearly you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Yes, there is an aging population in Clifton, that is true. However, as that "aging population" moves on to retirement homes and prices in Clifton have dropped due to the current housing market, and with rates historically low, more and more young families are moving into Clifton because it is affordable to them now. Myself included in that. And believe me, I am far from wealthy.

Liz Bradsher is done. Clifton does have the voting power to vote Liz out of office next year. There are over 2200 homes in the Clifton Elementary attendance area, and Clifton historically has the highest voter turn out in the entire Springfield district. So while this area may be sparsely populated as one poster mentioned, this sparsely populated area has a ton of voting power.

Facts associated with Clifton Elementary closure (for Dane Bramage):

FCPS Staff cited water, costs and enrollment as their key reasons for closing Clifton (only once did safety EVER come up and that was in regard to the driveway access to the school.

The water issue was magically resolved in an email from Dean T. (COO FCPS) to the School Board AFTER the Board Meeting on Thursday had started (post 7:15 PM). Quite interesting that the school system sat on the data until after the meeting had started considering he received the data himself earlier in the day (2:30 PM).

The cost issue was discussed and resolved by the community challenging the need for Johnny and Shameka to have 3 different physical rooms to enjoy strings, band and chorus (in elementary schools) when the teachers of those courses were only at the school 2 out of 5 days during the week and the space could have remained shared. That is just one issue. Did you know that the art classroom was noted as inadequate because the kiln for art was "in a room across the hallway" instead of contained within the art classroom? And no, these requirements were not demanded by the "rich white folk" in Clifton, they were established by FCPS themselves and the people in Clifton said "WE DON'T WANT OR NEED DOLLARS SPENT ON THOSE THINGS." If you can get to FCPS Web site and watch the recording of the meeting from Thursday, you will hear Dr. Raney state that he is now wondering if FCPS does not have a "Gold plated educational specification" when we can no longer afford it. So bottom line here, the Clifton community DID NOT WANT to spend dollars on things that made no sense to have in the first place given the current curriculum at the school.

And to declining enrollment. With the vote on Thursday this one has potentially become a self-fulfilling item as few may move to the Clifton school area until a direction for the students of the school is defined. Yes, right now Clifton has no idea where their children will attend school following this academic year and to add to that, they have no idea WHEN THEY WILL KNOW that information. This could be the last year for classes at the school or it could be 5 years out. Did you know that less than 12 months ago FCPS projected Clifton Elementary to be overcrowded in the 2013-2014 school year and now they are expecting underenrollment by 2015-2016. Someone is cooking the books.

So, water data coming in after the meeting started, expenditures that no one wanted and enrollment figures that few believe were used as a basis to close the school.

The reality is the School Board is in a pissing match with the Board of Supervisors and wanted to show them who was boss by closing Clifton Elementary due to "lack of funding for Capital Improvement Projects". Napoleon Gibson (AKA Stu) whined about Montgomery County's funding level for their school construction projects. Hey Stu, here's a newsflash, most of us don't WANT to live in Maryland because the fricken taxes are through the roof! Oh, and the State of Maryland provides a significant portion of the funds to cover school construction. Virginia provides FCPS with $2 million a year. Yep, that's right $2 million. The remainder ($153 million) comes out of the county coffers.

WAKE UP FAIRFAX AND VIRGINIA!!! OUR SCHOOL BOARD SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY AND HAVE IT HANDED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS. OTHERWISE THIS CRAP IS GOING TO CONTINUE AND MORE COMMUNITIES WILL BE DESTROYED AS A "LESSON" TO THOSE WHO HOLD THE ULTIMATE PURSESTRINGS.

FairTax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Facts associated with Clifton Elementary closure
> (for Dane Bramage):
>
> FCPS Staff cited water, costs and enrollment as
> their key reasons for closing Clifton (only once
> did safety EVER come up and that was in regard to
> the driveway access to the school.
>
> The water issue was magically resolved in an email
> from Dean T. (COO FCPS) to the School Board AFTER
> the Board Meeting on Thursday had started (post
> 7:15 PM). Quite interesting that the school
> system sat on the data until after the meeting had
> started considering he received the data himself
> earlier in the day (2:30 PM).
>
> The cost issue was discussed and resolved by the
> community challenging the need for Johnny and
> Shameka to have 3 different physical rooms to
> enjoy strings, band and chorus (in elementary
> schools) when the teachers of those courses were
> only at the school 2 out of 5 days during the week
> and the space could have remained shared. That is
> just one issue. Did you know that the art
> classroom was noted as inadequate because the kiln
> for art was "in a room across the hallway" instead
> of contained within the art classroom? And no,
> these requirements were not demanded by the "rich
> white folk" in Clifton, they were established by
> FCPS themselves and the people in Clifton said "WE
> DON'T WANT OR NEED DOLLARS SPENT ON THOSE THINGS."
> If you can get to FCPS Web site and watch the
> recording of the meeting from Thursday, you will
> hear Dr. Raney state that he is now wondering if
> FCPS does not have a "Gold plated educational
> specification" when we can no longer afford it.
> So bottom line here, the Clifton community DID NOT
> WANT to spend dollars on things that made no sense
> to have in the first place given the current
> curriculum at the school.
>
> And to declining enrollment. With the vote on
> Thursday this one has potentially become a
> self-fulfilling item as few may move to the
> Clifton school area until a direction for the
> students of the school is defined. Yes, right now
> Clifton has no idea where their children will
> attend school following this academic year and to
> add to that, they have no idea WHEN THEY WILL KNOW
> that information. This could be the last year for
> classes at the school or it could be 5 years out.
> Did you know that less than 12 months ago FCPS
> projected Clifton Elementary to be overcrowded in
> the 2013-2014 school year and now they are
> expecting underenrollment by 2015-2016. Someone
> is cooking the books.
>
> So, water data coming in after the meeting
> started, expenditures that no one wanted and
> enrollment figures that few believe were used as a
> basis to close the school.
>
> The reality is the School Board is in a pissing
> match with the Board of Supervisors and wanted to
> show them who was boss by closing Clifton
> Elementary due to "lack of funding for Capital
> Improvement Projects". Napoleon Gibson (AKA Stu)
> whined about Montgomery County's funding level for
> their school construction projects. Hey Stu,
> here's a newsflash, most of us don't WANT to live
> in Maryland because the fricken taxes are through
> the roof! Oh, and the State of Maryland provides
> a significant portion of the funds to cover school
> construction. Virginia provides FCPS with $2
> million a year. Yep, that's right $2 million.
> The remainder ($153 million) comes out of the
> county coffers.
>
> WAKE UP FAIRFAX AND VIRGINIA!!! OUR SCHOOL BOARD
> SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY AND
> HAVE IT HANDED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
> OTHERWISE THIS CRAP IS GOING TO CONTINUE AND MORE
> COMMUNITIES WILL BE DESTROYED AS A "LESSON" TO
> THOSE WHO HOLD THE ULTIMATE PURSESTRINGS.


Fire sprinklers, dumbass. The school is unsafe.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:

>
> Fire sprinklers, dumbass. The school is unsafe.



Again, I ask, is Clifton Elementary the ONLY school in FCPS without fire sprinklers? If not, are they planning to close those schools also? They are clearly "unsafe".

Clifton Elementary was perfectly safe until the School Board ran out of other excuses to close the school. When the lack of a fire sprinkler system was too lame as an excuse by itself, the School Board had to fabricate a "declining enrollment".

This whole thing with Clifton has been manipulated by the School Board from the beginning.

Besides KeepOnTruckin, as an employee of the FCPS School Board, I fully expect you to take their side.

taxpayer47 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OMGisRIGHT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BTW, it is our understanding that the building
> of
> > the new school is now off the table. It seems
> > like common sense to ask, though, since they
> have
> > now decided to close Clifton Elementary and
> there
> > is crowding by 29 and there are no other
> > properties owned by FCPS, where do you think
> they
> > are going to eventually build? Hmmm......
>
>
> Did you guys see the little kids on the news
> tonight?? Its one thing to be a snobby racist
> yourself but quite another to whore your kids out
> on the television news. I know these Clifton
> bitches will burn in hell forever.


I dont think that they should burn in hell but the closure of the school will benefit these kids in the long run. The next generation will learn that wealth does not mean shit. Some of these poor kids may be too far gone already but most of them will benefit. The crybayby parents deserve to be able to voice their opinions but the school must be closed. I am glad that FFXU brought this situation to my attention. The school MUST be closed.

FairTax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> WAKE UP FAIRFAX AND VIRGINIA!!! OUR SCHOOL BOARD
> SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY AND
> HAVE IT HANDED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
> OTHERWISE THIS CRAP IS GOING TO CONTINUE AND MORE
> COMMUNITIES WILL BE DESTROYED AS A "LESSON" TO
> THOSE WHO HOLD THE ULTIMATE PURSESTRINGS.


Any sense of your facts being true were lost by the rant above.

Here is the way most of the county sees it.

Clifton ES is old and in need of costly repairs. The integrity of it's wells are questionable.

Other schools in proximity to Clifton are overcrowded, and action needs to be taken to alleviate the overflow.

The most cost effective solution for the long term is to close Clifton and build a new school and consolidate Clifton students with the overflow students.

Clifton residents don't want this. People are resistant to change, there is a sense of entitlement, and they rail against the closure with emotional arguments using words like 'rip the heart out', 'destroyed community' and calling the school board member a witch, a bitch, and other names that show their immaturity.

Y'all may not agree with the vast majority of FFX County residents, but that is how we see it.

Perhaps it is time for Clifton to secede from the county, or for parents to consider private or home school options.

FairTax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Facts associated with Clifton Elementary closure
> (for Dane Bramage):
>
> FCPS Staff cited water, costs and enrollment as
> their key reasons for closing Clifton (only once
> did safety EVER come up and that was in regard to
> the driveway access to the school.
>
> The water issue was magically resolved in an email
> from Dean T. (COO FCPS) to the School Board AFTER
> the Board Meeting on Thursday had started (post
> 7:15 PM). Quite interesting that the school
> system sat on the data until after the meeting had
> started considering he received the data himself
> earlier in the day (2:30 PM).
>
> The cost issue was discussed and resolved by the
> community challenging the need for Johnny and
> Shameka to have 3 different physical rooms to
> enjoy strings, band and chorus (in elementary
> schools) when the teachers of those courses were
> only at the school 2 out of 5 days during the week
> and the space could have remained shared. That is
> just one issue. Did you know that the art
> classroom was noted as inadequate because the kiln
> for art was "in a room across the hallway" instead
> of contained within the art classroom? And no,
> these requirements were not demanded by the "rich
> white folk" in Clifton, they were established by
> FCPS themselves and the people in Clifton said "WE
> DON'T WANT OR NEED DOLLARS SPENT ON THOSE THINGS."
> If you can get to FCPS Web site and watch the
> recording of the meeting from Thursday, you will
> hear Dr. Raney state that he is now wondering if
> FCPS does not have a "Gold plated educational
> specification" when we can no longer afford it.
> So bottom line here, the Clifton community DID NOT
> WANT to spend dollars on things that made no sense
> to have in the first place given the current
> curriculum at the school.
>
> And to declining enrollment. With the vote on
> Thursday this one has potentially become a
> self-fulfilling item as few may move to the
> Clifton school area until a direction for the
> students of the school is defined. Yes, right now
> Clifton has no idea where their children will
> attend school following this academic year and to
> add to that, they have no idea WHEN THEY WILL KNOW
> that information. This could be the last year for
> classes at the school or it could be 5 years out.
> Did you know that less than 12 months ago FCPS
> projected Clifton Elementary to be overcrowded in
> the 2013-2014 school year and now they are
> expecting underenrollment by 2015-2016. Someone
> is cooking the books.
>
> So, water data coming in after the meeting
> started, expenditures that no one wanted and
> enrollment figures that few believe were used as a
> basis to close the school.
>
> The reality is the School Board is in a pissing
> match with the Board of Supervisors and wanted to
> show them who was boss by closing Clifton
> Elementary due to "lack of funding for Capital
> Improvement Projects". Napoleon Gibson (AKA Stu)
> whined about Montgomery County's funding level for
> their school construction projects. Hey Stu,
> here's a newsflash, most of us don't WANT to live
> in Maryland because the fricken taxes are through
> the roof! Oh, and the State of Maryland provides
> a significant portion of the funds to cover school
> construction. Virginia provides FCPS with $2
> million a year. Yep, that's right $2 million.
> The remainder ($153 million) comes out of the
> county coffers.
>
> WAKE UP FAIRFAX AND VIRGINIA!!! OUR SCHOOL BOARD
> SHOULD BE STRIPPED OF FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY AND
> HAVE IT HANDED TO THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS.
> OTHERWISE THIS CRAP IS GOING TO CONTINUE AND MORE
> COMMUNITIES WILL BE DESTROYED AS A "LESSON" TO
> THOSE WHO HOLD THE ULTIMATE PURSESTRINGS.


Fairfax is waking up. Good teachers are starting to leave the County. The hard working taxpayers that came here for education are also trying to split because they can see the direction the School Board is going in and can't stand afford to have their taxes hiked up anymore. Eventually this will just be a big sinkhole for people like Taxpayer47 and Dane Bramage to wallow in.

If you are after some specialty like foreign immersion or you want focus on ESOL, than Fairfax is the place to be. For the average parent that just wanted their kids to have a good education, Fairfax is no longer the place to be. It has really changed in the last 20 years. Everything is being dummied down, short-changed or stripped away just to be able to pay for the other programs.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will Liz get the Republican endorsement next year?


Apparently she has ticked off a lot of Republicans, even outside of Clifton, just because she turned against her own campaign slogan regarding Community Schools when she voted to close Clifton. Shame on Liz!

http://www.novacommonsense.com/2010/07/10/liz-bradsher-in-her-own-words-there-is-no-substitute-in-this-county-for-a-community-school/

There are a lot of Dems in Clifton. They probably aren't going to want her either.

doncha just throw up at his 'no hate' button? stu - look up 'irony' - it's not how your shirt feels fresh from the drycleaners, you stuffed shirt.
Attachments:

GoingDownhillAnyway Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The hard working taxpayers
> that came here for education are also trying to
> split

lol, where they going, Prince William County?

People may be in a FFX location for schools, but they are in the DC metro area for jobs.

I suppose Loudoun or Montgomery county are possibilities...

wtf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Do you even know what you are talking about??
>
> "For year they have tried to keep Clifton
> exclusive by zoning large parcels and keeping VRE
> out."
>
> Clifton residents had nothing to do with the
> zoning that keeps Clifton from building on
> anything less than 5 acres. You can thank the
> Fairfax Co. Zoning Dept. for that when the created
> the Occoquan Watershed to protect the public water
> supply.
>


Zoning is approved through the Town Council in Clifton. Yes, it needs to comply with the Chesapeake Watershed, but so does ALL development in Fairfax County. You don't see five acre parcels all over Burke. The fact is Clifton could have more density if they wanted to. They don't want to. I have no problem with that, but if the town chooses that path, they have nothing to bitch about when it comes to closing elementary schools.

> "Now you have an aging population, housing that is
> too expensive for young families resulting in too
> few kids to justify an Elementary school."
>
> Again, clearly you don't have a clue as to what
> you are talking about. Yes, there is an aging
> population in Clifton, that is true. However, as
> that "aging population" moves on to retirement
> homes and prices in Clifton have dropped due to
> the current housing market, and with rates
> historically low, more and more young families are
> moving into Clifton because it is affordable to
> them now. Myself included in that. And believe
> me, I am far from wealthy.
>


Take a look around Clifton! You have a bunch of people in their 40s, 50s and 60s who aren't going anywhere soon who do not have elementary school-aged kids.

> Liz Bradsher is done. Clifton does have the voting
> power to vote Liz out of office next year. There
> are over 2200 homes in the Clifton Elementary
> attendance area, and Clifton historically has the
> highest voter turn out in the entire Springfield
> district. So while this area may be sparsely
> populated as one poster mentioned, this sparsely
> populated area has a ton of voting power.

You can make this gal the villain, but obviously a lot of people support this move or it wouldn't have happened. Besides, do you want your kids going to school in an unsafe building? God forbid they should have to take a school bus.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

The Clifton town council has absolutely zero say about the 5 acre zoning requirements. The town council regulates only the town itself, which is about 1/2 mile square. All of the five acre lots sit outside of town and are controlled by Fairfax County. And it's not the Chesapeake Watershed that is the issue, but the Occoquan Watershed.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> Zoning is approved through the Town Council in
> Clifton. Yes, it needs to comply with the
> Chesapeake Watershed, but so does ALL development
> in Fairfax County. You don't see five acre parcels
> all over Burke. The fact is Clifton could have
> more density if they wanted to. They don't want
> to. I have no problem with that, but if the town
> chooses that path, they have nothing to bitch
> about when it comes to closing elementary
> schools.

1) Fairfax County down-zoned the area in/near Clifton, not the Town of Clifton. The Town of Clifton has to live by the County regulations too. Get your facts straight as the down-zoned area covers parts of Fairfax Station and Fairfax as well. Oh, and Ms. Bradsher sits on the Occoquan Watershed Coalition, one would think she would understand why that area of Fairfax is zoned the way it is.

2) The latest proposal from FCPS has no mention of building a new school at Liberty, which at this point the folks from Clifton likely would come out in some level of support for given the alternative of scattering students to up to 5 area schools. FCPS has NEVER closed a school at scattered students to 5 other facilities. They typically move the entire student population to another facility (either new or expanded).

3) Hone, Evans, Moon and Raney were the only ones to vote to delay any action until all the data was in. Smith tried to shut each of them up as they spoke at the meeting against going forward with the closure vote. Smith did nothing to clam up Stu Gibson and his blithering stupidity. The gang of 4 (Gibson, Smith, Wilson and Bradsher) are Jack Dale and FCPS Staff's best buds.

4) Someone please tell me how the education of these students from Clifton or any of the surrounding areas is going to improve based on this decision? Bradsher never sold anyone on what the added value was to closing this school for the students that attend the school. And that is what this is about, the education of students.

5) Clifton Elementary families DID NOT and WERE NOT asking for funds to be spent on renovating the school to the "Gold standard" that FCPS had established.

Again, wake up and smell the crap pile folks. Corrupt and bullying government is alive and well in Fairfax County.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wtf Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

> Take a look around Clifton! You have a bunch of
> people in their 40s, 50s and 60s who aren't going
> anywhere soon who do not have elementary
> school-aged kids.
>

This is not true. Seniors no longer want to pay the ever increasing property taxes and are starting to move away to other areas. They don't care about the strength of the job market here eiher. With 54% of the taxes going to the school, there is no reason to be here.

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clifton ES is old and in need of costly repairs.
> The integrity of it's wells are questionable.
>
> Other schools in proximity to Clifton are
> overcrowded, and action needs to be taken to
> alleviate the overflow.
>
> The most cost effective solution for the long term
> is to close Clifton and build a new school and
> consolidate Clifton students with the overflow
> students.
>
> Clifton residents don't want this. People are
> resistant to change, there is a sense of
> entitlement,

Luckily the proper decision for the county was made. If those in Clifton REALLY feel they need that school then offer to buy the property from the county and open a charter school. Otherwise STFU you entitlement bastards. You are as bad as podunk towns with the highest-paid person being the underutilized postal service boss at the post office that services three people a day. Gotta close those too, sorry.

NoToLiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Will Liz get the Republican endorsement next
> year?
>
>
> Apparently she has ticked off a lot of
> Republicans, even outside of Clifton, just because
> she turned against her own campaign slogan
> regarding Community Schools when she voted to
> close Clifton. Shame on Liz!
>
> http://www.novacommonsense.com/2010/07/10/liz-brad
> sher-in-her-own-words-there-is-no-substitute-in-th
> is-county-for-a-community-school/
>
> There are a lot of Dems in Clifton. They probably
> aren't going to want her either.

Another interesting site to look at:
http://rednova8.com/wordpress/?p=2505

Here is just one of SEVERAL things it says:

"In an interview, Bradsher stated that one of her reasons for her vote was “…it was quite expensive to renovate…”. Okay, understandable, right? Wrong. Liz Bradsher has voted for every major funding increase in recent memory and at the last meeting voted to pilfer the Virginia Retirement Systems reserve funding by millions to fund some untested new pilot program for Jack Dale".

GoingDownHillAnyway:
No point to verbal slapfight Liz, aka Taxpayer47 and Dane Bramage (or should we wave hi, Ms. Casie Eatman?)...

WashingTone-Locian:
> "do you want your kids going to school in an unsafe building? God forbid they should have to take a school bus."

You are possibly the most uneducated poster here - and your wife acts so smart...can't you act too? How are they getting to school now, you mook?

> "needs to comply with the Chesapeake Watershed, but so does ALL development in Fairfax County. You don't see five acre parcels all over Burke. The fact is Clifton could have more density if they wanted to. They don't want to. I have no problem with that, but if the town chooses that path, they have nothing to bitch about when "

Yeah - it's the town that just decided to move itself to the Chesapeake Watershed and have 5+ acres - again, you mook, it's the Occoquan Reservoir Watershed. Maybe you need to go to a big box school in FC and get yourself some edumacation - FC sets zoning laws, mook mook mook. And, you're welcome for the water you drink, cook, wash +++ with for the rest of your life.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:

>
> Fire sprinklers, dumbass. The school is unsafe.


I guess they shouldn't send their kids to school this coming year!
Sounds like the parents in Clifton have a lawsuit! If the School Board says it isn't safe for the kids to go there...and they are 'so committed' to a safe environment, why is the Kathy Smith 'negligence squad' intentionally operating an unsafe school??

COOL! Thanks, Mr. KeepON Truckin aka FCPS employee!!!
Attachments:

I'm tired of hearing that Clifton residents have a "sense of entitlement" with nothing to back up that phrase. They do not want their local ES closed and the kids split up and sent to other schools in the area. What is "entitled" about this? Also, Dane Bramage, you cite census statistics as some kind of "proof" that Clifton residents are racist. So you're implying that white people are all racist since the majority of the population in Clifton is white?

Another poster said that the children would benefit from going to the other schools...OK, how?

Evil is as Evil does...FC parents beware - they terrorized the parents over in Clifton and they are coming for our kids next! Boundary 'study' is coming this Sept to your neighborhood - and if you think it isn't already predestined what they are going to do to us...wrong wrong wrong!
Attachments:

sayWHAT? - Thanks for the hilarious group shot - tee hee.

I smell a new blogsite!
Guess there is no chance of FCPS using this to update their website?

hey - screen time for the good too - hope what we hear isn't true (she's done with all the crazies) - hope she hangs in, because she is definitely going to get some better compatriots!
Attachments:

Hone is no angel. From what I have read, it seems she has a huge problem with TJHSST's existence and would love to see it dissolved.

Everyone on the FCPS has their favorite issues, it seems. When will the SLEEP proposal come up again under Evans?

Storck has permitted parents at Waynewood Elem. to run that school. One teacher's aide had a tantrum when a kindergarten student cut out the wrong part of the paper. Told the little kid: "Well, look what you did! You RUINED it!" This woman also belittled my daughter for the clothes she wore to school (knit capris from Target on a third grader). A very disturbing environment.

good thing they are now saying they won't build a new school next to Liberty Middle School, or the residents around Union Mill Rd. and Compton Rd. will likely sue the school board.

http://www.asbestos-news.org/

k Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm tired of hearing that Clifton residents have a
> "sense of entitlement"

Then don't read this thread!

Actually, I am done trying to talk sense with you children, and will leave you to play with your crappy Photoshop pictures.

Have fun.

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> k Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm tired of hearing that Clifton residents have
> a
> > "sense of entitlement"
>
> Then don't read this thread!
>
> Actually, I am done trying to talk sense with you
> children, and will leave you to play with your
> crappy Photoshop pictures.
>
> Have fun.


+1

If you don't want to be seen as having a "sense of entitlement," quit acting like you do.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dane Bramage Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > k Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I'm tired of hearing that Clifton residents
> have
> > a
> > > "sense of entitlement"
> >
> > Then don't read this thread!
> >
> > Actually, I am done trying to talk sense with
> you
> > children, and will leave you to play with your
> > crappy Photoshop pictures.
> >
> > Have fun.
>
>
> +1
>
> If you don't want to be seen as having a "sense of
> entitlement," quit acting like you do.


Typical. You say bullshit you can't back up, or you're just plain WRONG (i.e. zoning, watershed, etc.) and then you come back with "then don't read this thread". Very good. You've proven my point. Neither of you has anything other than your opinion. The same as everyone else. You just think yours is "right".

I'd like to know what I have done to act as if I have a "sense of entitlement", but I know you won't give a real answer. Because you don't have anything besides the same pablum you are continually spitting out.

k Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I'd like to know what I have done to act as if I
> have a "sense of entitlement", but I know you
> won't give a real answer. Because you don't have
> anything besides the same pablum you are
> continually spitting out.


Maybe that you think you are above everyone else in the county? This isn't the first time a school has been closed or a district changed. Do you think the elected officials enjoyed doing this? Or that they did it for shits and giggles? They did this to save taxpayer dollars. When government cuts spending, someone has to lose. I commend them for having the courage of doing it instead of sticking with the status quo and letting the budget get out of hand. Did anyone at these meetings go up to the elected officials and offer to pay more property taxes to keep the school open?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Maybe that you think you are above everyone else
> in the county? This isn't the first time a school
> has been closed or a district changed. Do you
> think the elected officials enjoyed doing this? Or
> that they did it for shits and giggles? They did
> this to save taxpayer dollars. When government
> cuts spending, someone has to lose. I commend them
> for having the courage of doing it instead of
> sticking with the status quo and letting the
> budget get out of hand. Did anyone at these
> meetings go up to the elected officials and offer
> to pay more property taxes to keep the school
> open?



WTL, you continue to show your ignorance on this subject. Closing Clifton is NOT going to save taxpayers any money. Do some research on the subject, other than the spin that the School Board has put on this topic, and then maybe you can form an intelligent argument.

It's sad really, the level of trust you have in the School Board. Not to mention scary as hell. It's people like you that make me glad that I do make an effort to informed, with the truth, and then I make sure to vote.

WTL should look up what the average Clifton resident pays in property tax compared with the rest of Fairfax County.

wtf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> >
> > Maybe that you think you are above everyone
> else
> > in the county? This isn't the first time a
> school
> > has been closed or a district changed. Do you
> > think the elected officials enjoyed doing this?
> Or
> > that they did it for shits and giggles? They
> did
> > this to save taxpayer dollars. When government
> > cuts spending, someone has to lose. I commend
> them
> > for having the courage of doing it instead of
> > sticking with the status quo and letting the
> > budget get out of hand. Did anyone at these
> > meetings go up to the elected officials and
> offer
> > to pay more property taxes to keep the school
> > open?
>
>
>
> WTL, you continue to show your ignorance on this
> subject. Closing Clifton is NOT going to save
> taxpayers any money. Do some research on the
> subject, other than the spin that the School Board
> has put on this topic, and then maybe you can form
> an intelligent argument.
>
> It's sad really, the level of trust you have in
> the School Board. Not to mention scary as hell.
> It's people like you that make me glad that I do
> make an effort to informed, with the truth, and
> then I make sure to vote.

SayWHAT?! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
>
> >
> > Fire sprinklers, dumbass. The school is unsafe.
>
>
What about the others schools that don't have fire sprinklers? Aren't they unsafe?

See guys, this is why you don't buy your houswife a computer. They just go on, and bitch that a fucking tiny ass school is closing. Instead of bitching, do what Manassas Park did. Now, you should get off the computer and bake a cake.

Safe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SayWHAT?! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Fire sprinklers, dumbass. The school is
> unsafe.
> >
> >
> What about the others schools that don't have fire
> sprinklers? Aren't they unsafe?

According to this article, in 2000 HALF the schools in Fairfax County did not have sprinklers. But county school officials stressed that "even schools without sprinklers fully meet fire codes and regulations and are safe for students."

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-67631375.html

Read this article too:

"School board members and school system staff had for months underscored Clifton Elementary's contaminated well water as the primary justification for closing the school." ...

"Both of those statements now appear to have been misleading."

"Dean Tistadt, facilities chief for Fairfax's public schools, e-mailed new water test results to the school board just minutes before its members voted 9-2 to close Clifton. Those tests showed Clifton's water was safe, but the e-mail came too late to change the school board's vote."

"At-large school board member Martina Hone questioned the timing of Tistadt's e-mail. "I believe [FCPS] staff knew the water was not contaminated before 7:40 [Thursday] night,"

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Parents_-officials-_appalled_-at-decision-to-close-Clifton-school-98135544.html

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe that you think you are above everyone else
> in the county? This isn't the first time a school
> has been closed or a district changed. Do you
> think the elected officials enjoyed doing this? Or
> that they did it for shits and giggles?


These whiners need to be quiet. It could be worse. A lot worse. My cousin lives in the Gainesville area and his neighborhood switched elementary schools 4 times, until finally settling down 3 years ago. But they're on the block for moving AGAIN in the '11-'12 school year. They've switched middle schools 3 times and next year they'll switch high schools for the 3rd time as well.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>. Do you
> think the elected officials enjoyed doing this? Or
> that they did it for shits and giggles? They did
> this to save taxpayer dollars. When government
> cuts spending, someone has to lose. I commend them
> for having the courage of doing it instead of
> sticking with the status quo and letting the
> budget get out of hand. Did anyone at these
> meetings go up to the elected officials and offer
> to pay more property taxes to keep the school
> open?

No, because Clifton doesn't have a sense of entitlement.

However, three prominent historical societies – National Trust for Historic Preservation, Preservation Virginia, and the Department of Historical Resources -all sent letters to the School Board indicating that Clifton Elementary could be eligible for federal preservation funds based upon Clifton’s rural historical status. That could have possibly saved some of your tax dollars. Not now though!

Go ahead and keep parroting everything they say though because we are at least getting some shits and giggles.

Most of the Clifton area is composed of modest houses that were built before the 1980's. There are many McMansions but these folks do not represent the true Clifton Spirit.
WTL brought up "Little Johnny". Well let me tell you a little something about "Little Johnny".
He is much more rugged and tough compared to the vast majority of Fairfax County youth. You see John has a lot of land to help his family take care of. He gets up at the crack of dawn before school to muck stalls, feed, water, and take care of the horses. Of course this and other chores need to be done after school as well.
Here it is in the summer time and John isn't playing video games and watching MTV like his more delicate FFX County counterparts. He's out mowing the 5 to 10 acre fields, cutting back brush, mending/painting fences, weeding the family garden, picking vegetables and fruit, cutting up wood, and conducting the many other tasks associated with living the rural life style.
When not working, you may find John and his friends camping, swimming in the stream, exploring the woods, or fishing the old farm pond to catch dinner.
I understand that some local kids on a farm just outside of town make a few extra bucks selling fresh eggs to the Clifton Store. This is what growing up Clifton is all about and this work ethic is why these kids succeed ... more so than others.

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> These whiners need to be quiet. It could be
> worse. A lot worse. My cousin lives in the
> Gainesville area and his neighborhood switched
> elementary schools 4 times, until finally settling
> down 3 years ago. But they're on the block for
> moving AGAIN in the '11-'12 school year. They've
> switched middle schools 3 times and next year
> they'll switch high schools for the 3rd time as
> well.


That's what this is all about - you want to see Clifton punished so you can feel better by feeling that everyone gets hurt equally. How kind you are....

Safe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Safe Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SayWHAT?! Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Fire sprinklers, dumbass. The school is
> > unsafe.
> > >
> > >
> > What about the others schools that don't have
> fire
> > sprinklers? Aren't they unsafe?

More so than a comparable building with fire sprinklers. Yes.

>
> According to this article, in 2000 HALF the
> schools in Fairfax County did not have sprinklers.
> But county school officials stressed that "even
> schools without sprinklers fully meet fire codes
> and regulations and are safe for students."
>
> http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-67631375.html

That was in 2000, right after the Dogwood Fire, which of course was basically caused by not having sprinklers. They are correct that buildings that do not have sprinklers are not required to have them put in immediatly, however, a chance to retrofit them in should never be missed. I beleive that now most of the schools without them have been renovated to include fire sprinklers.

I'm going to do some math for the parents of Clifton.

1) Based on the 400 children that attend the school, and the $19,000,000 in 'renovations', the cost for renovations alone is $50,000 per student.
2) Now, let's say a new elementary school is built, one that can house 900 students. Let's say the cost is $25,000,000 to build. That is $28,000 per student. We are not counting energy costs, which would be cheaper in a new school, which would contain more energy efficient appliances.

$50,000>$28,000

WashingTone-Locian wrote:
If you don't want to be seen as having a "sense of entitlement," quit acting like you do.

Not many were there to overhear it, but a fascinating and nearly word for word quote from Liz Bradsher made viciously in the hall to a Clifton parent after the Work Session the night after the Public Hearing. Nice. Wonder how you are able to quote so succinctly Liz's on words...

So, explain why the kids at all the other schools get renovation and you justify throwing away an entire school building for a few million dollars that will buy the taxpayers decades and decades of additional use?

Mr. Albo can argue on the floor of the House for West Springfield - and Liz (you) stabbed those little kids & parents in the back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X46TGCywOjs&feature=related

Since Albo's quote "ensures WSHS Renovation allowed when School Construction Revolving Fund is created" (HB 2018 passed, in Senate Finance right now) - with emphasis on word renovation...why can't that same be used for Clifton?? Dave eloquently discusses schools that haven't been renovated in 30, 40 , 50 years (my oh my - can a building be in use that long without being renovated?) but no mention of Clifton.

Puzzling that now Albo's website says "As a WSHS graduate, this issue is close to Dave’s heart. Dave Albo’s “Albo-Rust Public/Private School Construction Plan” built South County Secondary. Dave’s plan renovates WSHS next year using this proven successful method." What welcome news - since WSHS is now miraculously being taken care of by Albo's plan, you don't need to close Clifton...I am sure those parents are looking forward to that announcement.

All the 'racism' claims that Liz, Stu, etc. make here (seemingly incognito) seem to be true - you are perfectly executing racism against the residents of the Clifton area. Nice agenda for a public school board to have - give me my voucher and I will gladly take my kid out of your system and educate elsewhere.

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Warhawk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > These whiners need to be quiet. It could be
> > worse. A lot worse. My cousin lives in the
> > Gainesville area and his neighborhood switched
> > elementary schools 4 times, until finally
> settling
> > down 3 years ago. But they're on the block for
> > moving AGAIN in the '11-'12 school year.
> They've
> > switched middle schools 3 times and next year
> > they'll switch high schools for the 3rd time as
> > well.
>
>
> That's what this is all about - you want to see
> Clifton punished so you can feel better by feeling
> that everyone gets hurt equally. How kind you
> are....


Actually:

1. I don't care what the hell happens in Clifton, it doesn't affect me at all. You all can homeschool your kids, make them drop out to work on your "farms", have them learn in some old ass, outdated building, or bus them to PG county for an education. I don't care.

2. How does what happens to my cousin in Gainesville make this "what it is all about"? Again, that example doesn't affect my life at all. FYI - I grew up in Vienna and went to the same elementary school, the same middle school and the same high school. So I can appreciate wanting stability for one's child.

3. I know just enough about construction and based upon the age of the existing school, it's probably cheaper to tear it down than to build a new one. I've seen schools done both ways and renovating an outdated existing school is generally much more expensive.

4. My first posts in this thread were related to the asbestos scaremongering. I was backing up some anon post about the safety of building the new school. In a previous job, I actually had to deal with that natural occurring stuff and have seen a lot of data that indicates that you do not have plumes of asbestos fibers wafting off site into unsuspecting areas. Go look at the Health Department's website about their requirements to ensure safety. Most of the people bringing up this issue are not correct and haven't fully done the research.

5. The amount of whining and crying in this thread is unbelievable. It's the whole "not in my backyard" syndrome. Things that we don't like happen all of the time. Get over it. You'll probably get a new school, with nice new fields, gymnasiums, cafeterias, fire suppression systems, and 50" plasma smartboards for all of your gifted children learn from. If you beat FCPS on this issue, they don't build the school, Clifton ES burns down and some children are injured (or worse), you're the same people that are going to be suing FCPS about "how could you let this happen". Or they'll renovate the school at a higher cost and you'll be bitching about you taxes. Whatever. Keep up with your snobby McLean-like attitudes.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

imonlsd:
You must have learned math at a big box school with 3500 sq ft media centers and smart boards.

Taking the "GOLD STANDARD" Dr. Raney described (his words) the SB has put into the EdSpecs that we cannot afford as a County to maintain, if you take the HIGHEST (read: ridiculously overestimated to make it look really bad) of FCPS' own numbers...

$11,009,544/312 (renovating for a new reduced capacity)
Staff's completely made up projected enrollment has their plan REDUCING the size of the school - didn't this whole thing start to solve overcrowding? But I digress...
$35,287/student - remember includes Gold standard renovations of the highest order + stupidly made up enrollment projections

/366 (LOWEST NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN LAST 15+ YEARS)
$30,080.72 - still Gold standard + perfectly reasonable projection

/374 (number students now)
$29,437.28 - still Gold standard + REALITY re: # students

so...WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

Oh yeah - and you can automatically take $300+K off the table since Dazzling Dean made sure not to release the new water study until after the meeting began...indicating water is fine.

$10,707,144/374 = $28,629 STILL Gold standard and doesn't even pull out soft costs rolled in for well + REALITY

Other recent FCPS renovation comps? $23,508 $20,436 $23,422 $23,854

So we are at worst, a few thousand bucks off? This is absurd.

Wait...toss the Gold standard and go with Silver...
$7,657,722/374 = $20,475

Don't look now, but that's $2,330 LESS THAN THE AVERAGE RENOVATION!!!

FINAL STAFF REPORT:
"There is no question that the school as it is currently configured is functional from an educational perspective"
(but they go with how they want to add Gold standard anyway...)

Warhawk:
If you think that a School Board which conducts its affairs in a derelict and dilatory manner 'doesn't affect you at all' you are part of the problem.
I am loathe to quote such a confounded liberal as O'Neill, but 'all politics is local' - your 'representatives' of the School Board have $2.2 BILLION of your money...53.5% of Fairfax County's entire countywide budget...plus another $1 BILLION in federal subsidies, supplementals for a total of $3.2B.

Just a little perspective, that's about the global operating budget of Target, buddy. And more than $1B over their net income.

If you still happen to be paying attention, the School Board is about to place 30 schools into a "turnaround" program and engage UVA to put the worst 20 into a Darden intervention effort. Another 11 didn't get a "bottom 30" slot. That's 41 schools.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/fairfax-county-public-schools/fairfax-county-slashing-summer.html
Read this - and ask how many Gatehouse positions were eliminated? Did Dales start paying for his own car and health insurance? What about his perks? But the poor kids are going to fall behind because there isn't enough money to run summer school?

Cuts in FCPS with projected escalating numbers in student populations?
130 core high school teachers
80 core middle school teachers
234 core elementary teachers
14 librarian positions
32 special education position
12 career transition positions for special-needs students

This is serious fiduciary malfeasance.

Could be that Warhawk will pay attention to this, since one of the schools deemed in need of serious intervention is Cunningham Park in the "above it all" town of Vienna.

real Clifton wants to make us believe that we have Mayberry in our backyard. I may have been born at night, but not last night and Clifton is not some throwback town that time forgot that still somehow lives in the 18th century. These kids go to school with mine at Centreville and Robinson and they have the same cell phones, cars, vacations and clothes as everyone else.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>Do you
> think the elected officials enjoyed doing this? Or
> that they did it for shits and giggles? They did
> this to save taxpayer dollars. When government
> cuts spending, someone has to lose. I commend them
> for having the courage of doing it instead of
> sticking with the status quo and letting the
> budget get out of hand. Did anyone at these
> meetings go up to the elected officials and offer
> to pay more property taxes to keep the school
> open?


Courage. Not letting the budget get out of hand. More shits and giggles. Just last year the School Board wanted to spend $130 million on another Admin building for themselves (Gatehouse II) with a floor-to-ceiling granite lobby, a state-of-the-art fitness center, an on-site cafeteria with outdoor seating BUT THE COUNTY SUPERVISORS shut the idea down because the County faced a $650 million shortfall. BOE were willing to spend $130 million on themselves but not willing to spend less than $11,000 a year later to renovate a school for 400 students. Perhaps you should be more informed on what your elected officials are really doing.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/SharpSticks/BREAKING-NEWS-Supervisors-just-say-no-to-Gatehouse--40115392.html

I can't wait to see which elementary schools these kids get bused into (or what the boundary changes are when these kids get displaced and other high scoring kids further out get bused to new elementary schools---sort of a "pinball effect"). The test scores for Clifton kids are probably the highest in the county (if not close to highest). These kids (or kids affected by these kids' displacements) will be an asset to any school that is struggling to make AYP or close to losing AYP (which may be the case at some). This closing has a lot to do with other things that are not being stated (money is definitely not the issue---especially given that parents were willing to go without renovation and "gold standard" items). It's about saving the "behinds" of the board who don't want to have "failing schools" on their watches. Think about how much the whole boundary study is going to cost (nobody is talking about that).

The board did not listen to the local people there in Clifton---they apparently have no say in how their school is run. It's a sad day in America when local control is taken away. As soon as this starts happening, all the schools will lose out. This is not about redistricting because there are too many new houses with kids or a sudden drop in numbers of kids (the "Gainesville" type of changes). This is a very stable and old community that has had little housing change. This is about social engineering. We have social problems that are afflicting the schools and we need to spread them around. We can't solve those problems---so we have to make it look like we don't have them. Watch out for more people asking for vouchers for private schools.

America used to be about communities----now it's about big power centers, big money, etc. Clifton people apparently are not as rich as some on this forum think. They will be asking for vouchers or at least lower taxes if they send their kids to private schools or home school. It's coming to Fairfax people.

“People spent thousands upon thousands of hours researching and giving [the school board] information; they ignored most of it,” ,,,,,,amounts to “bringing out a nuclear weapon for a small problem.”

Does this sound familiar to what just happened to Clifton? Read this:
http://www.examiner.com/a-1313181~Opponents_of_redistricting_sue_Fairfax_County_School_Board.html

Next on the agenda -- Southwestern Boundary Study. Citizens are going to spend hundreds of hours wasting their time on that process too. If you can't see by now that they already know what they want to do than you are a fools.

Thanks for the article. People in other parts of the county think this is not about them---but it is. The school board are puppets of Dr. Dale. They do not have the spine to question him and do their jobs. And they just gave him another 4 year contract. Unbelievable.

The posts presenting the facts and figures have obviously done research about this and should realize the idiots presenting opposing views are probably FCPS tools or SB plants (probably Bradsher herself). From what I understand, the Clifton families told the SB that they were willing to go without renovation (so much for the entitlement accusation). Seems that no renovation would save all the taxpayers dollars so let's take that argument off the table.

After reading the outrageously snobby posts coming from those alleging to be Clifton parents, I hope they tear down the old school and turn it into a sewage treatment plant. I wonder if their children will grow up to be as stuck up as they are. Maybe not, now that they'll have to integrate with the "rest" of the county.

They sound awfully racist, are they afraid their urchin may buddy up with a child named Juan, or have a childhood crush on an innocent girl from Venezuela named Adela?

Meanwhile, I didn't see anything on the news about Clifton residents picketing outside the government center. They didn't care enough to get off their asses and create a media event out of it? It is almost as if they are too stuck up to defend themselves sensibly. Ah well, you should have done more and now it is too late.

Let us get one thing straight. Just a small portion of the school was built in 1953. The vast majority of the school was completed in 1983 when it was expanded and renovated. $19 million for a modern renovation? Really? Those are some expensive sprinklers! As for the water, many local business stated that they would donate drinking water for years to come. An above ground water tank would also do just fine.

I'm reading that the school's enrollment would decline to just 300 students in the next few years.

I wonder if the residents would have been happy with an alternate plan that would have bussed in 300 students from the South Lakes area to utilize the under-utilization and ease any overcrowding in other county areas. The sites I'm reading about saving the school tout the "small school" setting and how the residents of Clifton love it. I would too if I could get a nice small school on public dime and they have enjoyed that for decades, but the student population looks like it has declined to levels where it just isn't justified.

Residents should consider getting together and buying the school, each owning a share of a for-profit charter school and gradually make money back through tuition payments over the next few decades. Team up with Goddard School or some other private education organization that has experience, buy the property, and pay them to manage it. Send the kids there and be done with the county.

Or better yet, have the community foot half the renovation cost. You really want it? Have each family kick in $15k. That really shouldn't be a hardship for that area of the county.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2010 12:26PM by pgens.

real Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let us get one thing straight. Just a small
> portion of the school was built in 1953. The vast
> majority of the school was completed in 1983 when
> it was expanded and renovated. $19 million for a
> modern renovation? Really? Those are some
> expensive sprinklers! As for the water, many
> local business stated that they would donate
> drinking water for years to come. An above ground
> water tank would also do just fine.

Jack Dale and the entire school board need to close all unsafe schools that do not have sprinkler system.

Unsafe is unsafe. How many does liz have in her district?

Fairfax Taxpayer:

I don't think this has anything to do with Juan or Adela. I love Juan and Adela. I would love my child to marry Juan or Adela (my grandkids could be bilingual).

What I don't love is politicians doing one thing when they say they are doing another (dishonesty). I think I deserve the truth if I am paying taxes. Otherwise, forget the taxes. Or forget the politicians and this whole lousy system. Either the school board has no idea what they are doing (where are the answers?) or they are playing us for fools (I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out which).

By the way, my child is Hispanic (adopted). I am white.

This area has no more snobby people than anywhere else. Bringing up a racism claim is absurd as you have no idea what the people in this area are like. You obviously didn't attend the SB Public Hearing or Regular Session if you believe people didn't care enough in having their voice be heard. The majority of the SB weren't listening as they listen only to FCPS staff.

Fairfax Taxpayer:

Maybe I am "snobby" and my kid is "stuck up" (he happens to be out volunteering right now)---BUT---what do you call the school board? I guess it would be nicer to just say "arrogant"?

I don't even live in the Clifton area by the way---I just believe in democracy (what a concept).

Prohibition didn't work.

real Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
WTL brought up "Little Johnny". Well let me tell
> you a little something about "Little Johnny".
> He is much more rugged and tough compared to the
> vast majority of Fairfax County youth. You see
> John has a lot of land to help his family take
> care of. He gets up at the crack of dawn before
> school to muck stalls, feed, water, and take care
> of the horses. Of course this and other chores
> need to be done after school as well.
> Here it is in the summer time and John isn't
> playing video games and watching MTV like his more
> delicate FFX County counterparts. He's out mowing
> the 5 to 10 acre fields, cutting back brush,
> mending/painting fences, weeding the family
> garden, picking vegetables and fruit, cutting up
> wood, and conducting the many other tasks
> associated with living the rural life style.
> When not working, you may find John and his
> friends camping, swimming in the stream, exploring
> the woods, or fishing the old farm pond to catch
> dinner.
> I understand that some local kids on a farm just
> outside of town make a few extra bucks selling
> fresh eggs to the Clifton Store. This is what
> growing up Clifton is all about and this work
> ethic is why these kids succeed ... more so than
> others.


FYI my delicate "Little Joey" gets up at 4:00am to swim for an hour and a half before school everyday, takes his AP classes, goes to scouts, etc. then coaches two nights a week. In the summer my delicate "Little Joey" gets up at 4:00am to swim for 2 hours, goes to work every day, mows our lawn, does his chores, volunteers for the neighborhood and scouts, etc.
Just because we don't live in your lovely little Clifton doesn't mean us "city folks" are delicate. Get off your high horse (pun intended) and get into reality.

Fairfax Taxpayer wrote:
"...outrageously snobby posts coming from those alleging to be Clifton parents, I hope they tear down the old school and turn it into a sewage treatment plant. I wonder if their children will grow up to be as stuck up as they are. Maybe not, now that they'll have to integrate with the "rest" of the county.

They sound awfully racist, are they afraid their urchin may buddy up with a child named Juan, or have a childhood crush on an innocent girl from Venezuela named Adela?"


Is this the best you are able to articulate? Which posts were outrageously snobby? Which ones were racist? Should the County really assume the cost to rip down a functioning building and build a waste treatment facility above the town?
Rhetorical questions these, obviously - the bizarre nature of your reference to an innocent girl from Venezuela has no merit whatsoever. The random flak approach to throw every possible issue up as a smokescreen is typical modus operandi for the SWRPC and FCPS Board, thus you are most certainly are a member of one or the other.

Those incapable of intellectual discourse result to such inarticulate means of debating - caged primates often develop abnormal personalities, exhibiting anti-social behavior such as frequently repeated auto-stimulation patterns, avoidance of social contact, throwing feces at tourists and regurgitation and eating of their own vomit...looks like caging of FCPS at Gatehouse is yielding the human equivalent...spewing and eating your own vomit amongst yourselves, avoiding social contact with those functioning in reality and throwing your crap at taxpayers to as a measure of your discontent with those revealing the truth to the rest of the world outside you who wallow in self-imposed captivity.

Note to new forum members from Clifton: don't feed the troll posts. Most of them are fakes trying to get a rise out of you. The BS lecture on crazy monkeys makes it worth it to them. They'll next ask why you brought up monkeys as your example.

MollyCorbin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Those incapable of intellectual discourse result
> to such inarticulate means of debating - caged
> primates often develop abnormal personalities,
> exhibiting anti-social behavior such as frequently
> repeated auto-stimulation patterns, avoidance of
> social contact, throwing feces at tourists and
> regurgitation and eating of their own
> vomit...looks like caging of FCPS at Gatehouse is
> yielding the human equivalent...spewing and eating
> your own vomit amongst yourselves, avoiding social
> contact with those functioning in reality and
> throwing your crap at taxpayers to as a measure of
> your discontent with those revealing the truth to
> the rest of the world outside you who wallow in
> self-imposed captivity.


why the hell are you bringing up primates as an example? usually when someone compares another human being to a monkey it is because of a deliberate racial undertone. if I was black I would be greatly offended by your racist and backwards way of looking at life. I though NOVA was free of rednecks, I guess I'm wrong.

real deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I deserve the truth if I am paying taxes.

YOU DON"T WANT THE TRUTH, YOU CAN"T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!

real deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> By the way, my child is Hispanic (adopted). I am
> white.

Well, aren't you special.

If the school is closed after the 2010-11 school year what will become of the closed building?

Will it be sold? Converted to administrative offices?

Years back, Edsall Park Elem was closed and then used for administrative offices and then just recently, a costly renovation took place so it could be used as adult education center.

If we have money to renovate a building for adult education, why the hell don't we have money to spend on a fully enrolled elementary school?

I think it is time to take a looksie at the CIP-past and present and see how wisely the money is being spent.

Jack D:

No, I'm not special. But clearly you are Mr. Dale.

Fairfax Taxpayer:

If I didn't want my "Johnny" sitting next to Juan or Adela, I would put him in the GT program (most kids get in there on appeals anyhow---not because they scored high on a test like they want you to think). I don't think that program (and TJ for that matter) has a lot of Juans and Adelas. Maybe we should also call those parents "snobby" and their kids "stuck up".

For that matter, maybe we should do away with honors classes, AP and IB because those are probably populated with "stuck up" kids who are not ogling Adela and dreamy eyed over Juan.

real deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't wait to see which elementary schools these
> kids get bused into (or what the boundary changes
> are when these kids get displaced and other high
> scoring kids further out get bused to new
> elementary schools---sort of a "pinball effect").
> The test scores for Clifton kids are probably the
> highest in the county (if not close to highest).
> These kids (or kids affected by these kids'
> displacements) will be an asset to any school that
> is struggling to make AYP or close to losing AYP
> (which may be the case at some). This closing has
> a lot to do with other things that are not being
> stated (money is definitely not the
> issue---especially given that parents were willing
> to go without renovation and "gold standard"
> items). It's about saving the "behinds" of the
> board who don't want to have "failing schools" on
> their watches. Think about how much the whole
> boundary study is going to cost (nobody is talking
> about that).
>
For a school to make AYP, it must meet or exceed achievement benchmarks in English and mathematics. Here are where the facts are on all the schools included in the Southwestern Regional Planning study.
https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/reportcard/

These are the schools out of that study that have problems:

Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2009-2010.
London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2008-2009 and 2009-2010
Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in 2009-2010 but failed AYP the two prior years.
Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP in 2009-2010.

If schools continue to fail AYP, eventually FCPS has to put forth a restructuring plan.

By closing Clifton, they will create overcrowding where there was supposedly none and we have seen how dependable the numbers are. The Springfield School Board Member, Liz Bradsher, put forth the Amendment to close Clifton Elementary. She was also the main driver to build South County Middle. Do you think she won’t come back again to push for a new school at Liberty Middle if she gets re-elected or even before then? Do you think that the closure of Clifton might just have been in the grand scale of things to justify building a new school at Liberty Middle and FORCE Union Mill into eventual acceptance…..

hsparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> real Clifton Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> WTL brought up "Little Johnny". Well let me
> tell
> > you a little something about "Little Johnny".
> > He is much more rugged and tough compared to
> the
> > vast majority of Fairfax County youth. You see
> > John has a lot of land to help his family take
> > care of. He gets up at the crack of dawn
> before
> > school to muck stalls, feed, water, and take
> care
> > of the horses. Of course this and other chores
> > need to be done after school as well.
> > Here it is in the summer time and John isn't
> > playing video games and watching MTV like his
> more
> > delicate FFX County counterparts. He's out
> mowing
> > the 5 to 10 acre fields, cutting back brush,
> > mending/painting fences, weeding the family
> > garden, picking vegetables and fruit, cutting
> up
> > wood, and conducting the many other tasks
> > associated with living the rural life style.
> > When not working, you may find John and his
> > friends camping, swimming in the stream,
> exploring
> > the woods, or fishing the old farm pond to
> catch
> > dinner.
> > I understand that some local kids on a farm
> just
> > outside of town make a few extra bucks selling
> > fresh eggs to the Clifton Store. This is what
> > growing up Clifton is all about and this work
> > ethic is why these kids succeed ... more so
> than
> > others.
>
>
> FYI my delicate "Little Joey" gets up at 4:00am to
> swim for an hour and a half before school
> everyday, takes his AP classes, goes to scouts,
> etc. then coaches two nights a week. In the
> summer my delicate "Little Joey" gets up at 4:00am
> to swim for 2 hours, goes to work every day, mows
> our lawn, does his chores, volunteers for the
> neighborhood and scouts, etc.
> Just because we don't live in your lovely little
> Clifton doesn't mean us "city folks" are delicate.
> Get off your high horse (pun intended) and get
> into reality.


Sounds like Joey is in HS whereas "little Johnny" is still at Clifton ES. It appears that John however could work circles around "little Joey". What; he gets up early so he can play in the indoor/chlorinated pool before school? And he does this in the summer as well? IMPRESSIVE!
I just hope the 15 minutes that it takes to mow the lawn doesn't tucker the poor little fellow out. Let's face it, tending to the farm in Clifton can not compare to the ease of the meager upkeep needed on your subdivision lot.
Clifton living, it's not a easy life, but it is a good one!

"The public deserves an accountable boundary process. A process that is well defined with ranked criteria and addresses the issue of "ownership," perception, proximity, as well as community history. To refrain from addressing these issues is selling the public short. I don't think the public/parents of this county deserve that, do you?

Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
Fairfax Station"

Than why Liz, with Clifton's community history and proximity, did you sell Clifton short? Other Board Members suggested a boundary study before a decision was made. What happened to that? WHO are you -- REALLY??!!!

http://65.55.75.215/att/GetAttachment.aspx?file=279df159-0112-480e-94d8-b80ed4edc956.htm&ct=dGV4dC9odG1s&name=YXJ0aWNsZS5odG0_3d&inline=0&rfc=0∅=False&imgsrc=&msgHash=ffffffffffffffff&shared=1&hm__login=cemail_219&hm__domain=hotmail.com&ip=10.13.214.8&d=d3452&mf=0&hm__ts=Tue%2c%2013%20Jul%202010%2020%3a06%3a35%20GMT&sc=2ZAx3YMTuAVn7Jv3Ewyp9bzPMXtlsbigTdI9eoVOzxPKxJBH%2aha7dHA3tqu732sjRoA9hV37hdY0DRyCuDv9eM4hkdVFkxscBggkiy%21XTb080YzT9dzzeWEdmd4Vp73f2IqHDWp8rv9e5J30LWzfHCiKiKg2RT2vOncBWo1JrJbv839z5UKV5eqHWvonofSy05GRbsor6wXlbxiwAJgJT2lpsYE0hzVSgD99w1E5dq4t2LbBnhIdFm9fcqLlmKnkWA7fmj8VoQ8Q0yp4rejsS8GN0lkoBEaf%2aUSe86CqQh%2aXuLzyvg3FasGCeN%2aHo85UtLEZDQoqMyNk4%24&hm__ha=01_4f40fc031d877baf7e937db850d8b2c2f252e94fe693c0296a2161de99ce544b&oneredir=1

Mathalicious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imonlsd:
> You must have learned math at a big box school
> with 3500 sq ft media centers and smart boards.
>
> Taking the "GOLD STANDARD" Dr. Raney described
> (his words) the SB has put into the EdSpecs that
> we cannot afford as a County to maintain, if you
> take the HIGHEST (read: ridiculously overestimated
> to make it look really bad) of FCPS' own
> numbers...
>
> $11,009,544/312 (renovating for a new reduced
> capacity)
> Staff's completely made up projected enrollment
> has their plan REDUCING the size of the school -
> didn't this whole thing start to solve
> overcrowding? But I digress...
> $35,287/student - remember includes Gold standard
> renovations of the highest order + stupidly made
> up enrollment projections
>
> /366 (LOWEST NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN LAST 15+
> YEARS)
> $30,080.72 - still Gold standard + perfectly
> reasonable projection
>
> /374 (number students now)
> $29,437.28 - still Gold standard + REALITY re: #
> students
>
> so...WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
>
> Oh yeah - and you can automatically take $300+K
> off the table since Dazzling Dean made sure not to
> release the new water study until after the
> meeting began...indicating water is fine.
>
> $10,707,144/374 = $28,629 STILL Gold standard and
> doesn't even pull out soft costs rolled in for
> well + REALITY
>
> Other recent FCPS renovation comps? $23,508
> $20,436 $23,422 $23,854
>
> So we are at worst, a few thousand bucks off? This
> is absurd.
>
> Wait...toss the Gold standard and go with
> Silver...
> $7,657,722/374 = $20,475
>
> Don't look now, but that's $2,330 LESS THAN THE
> AVERAGE RENOVATION!!!
>
> FINAL STAFF REPORT:
> "There is no question that the school as it is
> currently configured is functional from an
> educational perspective"
> (but they go with how they want to add Gold
> standard anyway...)

I assume you learned reading comprehension at a shit school like Clifton. You are pulling numbers out of your ass, the county will be doing the renovations, not you, so I am going with what the county says renovations will be. Based on the number of students, the cost per student will be more. A new school will be more energy efficient than an old school.

And if they turn the building into adult education that would bring the rabble in. I'm starting to get now why the closure was so opposed, mostly by people who don't have kids in the school.

hello - I don't live in Clifton, but I think you are dead wrong about the numbers. UVA just released their projections - FC is getting 13,000 more students in the next 5 years. Their track record is way better than the school board's record. Is your name Stu Pid Gibson?

NoToLiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The public deserves an accountable boundary
> process. A process that is well defined with
> ranked criteria and addresses the issue of
> "ownership," perception, proximity, as well as
> community history. To refrain from addressing
> these issues is selling the public short. I don't
> think the public/parents of this county deserve
> that, do you?
>
> Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
> Fairfax Station"
>
> Than why Liz, with Clifton's community history and
> proximity, did you sell Clifton short? Other
> Board Members suggested a boundary study before a
> decision was made. What happened to that? WHO
> are you -- REALLY??!!!
>
The quote from Liz Bradsher (above) was from a Letter to the Editor that Mrs. Bradsher wrote called "Who Owns the Schools?" which was in the Springfield Connection in 2006.

The numbers provided above are ALL FCPS created numbers - NONE are made up, from orifices or otherwise.

The $10.7M - FCPS # 'GOLD' Standard definition per Dr. Raney, 7/8/10
The $7.6M - FCPS # middle renovation quote based on making school smaller - max. 312 students, also an FCPS # (though I agree with you - that one IS patently made up, just not by me but by FCPS)
366 students - FCPS # lowest number enrolled in over 15 years
The recent FCPS renovation comps? $23,508 $20,436 $23,422 $23,854
FCPS #s for:
Stenwood ES, Westlawn ES, Franconia ES, Beech Tree ES for respective dates 1/21/2010, 2/24/2010, 3/3/2010, 3/24/2010
with an FCPS # average renovation cost per student of $22,805

So I do believe you may have my posterior confused with Smith's or Gibson's or Bradsher's or Tistadt's...but those numbers are all FCPS, so own them.

Stinks when someone who actually knows how to do an analysis looks at your own product and can refute the smoke and mirror game, huh?

And the truth shall be revealed.

Mathalicious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The numbers provided above are ALL FCPS created
> numbers - NONE are made up, from orifices or
> otherwise.
>
> The $10.7M - FCPS # 'GOLD' Standard definition per
> Dr. Raney, 7/8/10
> The $7.6M - FCPS # middle renovation quote based
> on making school smaller - max. 312 students, also
> an FCPS # (though I agree with you - that one IS
> patently made up, just not by me but by FCPS)
> 366 students - FCPS # lowest number enrolled in
> over 15 years
> The recent FCPS renovation comps? $23,508 $20,436
> $23,422 $23,854
> FCPS #s for:
> Stenwood ES, Westlawn ES, Franconia ES, Beech Tree
> ES for respective dates 1/21/2010, 2/24/2010,
> 3/3/2010, 3/24/2010
> with an FCPS # average renovation cost per student
> of $22,805
>
> So I do believe you may have my posterior confused
> with Smith's or Gibson's or Bradsher's or
> Tistadt's...but those numbers are all FCPS, so own
> them.
>
> Stinks when someone who actually knows how to do
> an analysis looks at your own product and can
> refute the smoke and mirror game, huh?
>
> And the truth shall be revealed.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=341784&paper=62&cat=104

The school system has estimated that the cost closing Clifton, building a new school on the Liberty campus and constructing additions at other schools to be approximately $17.2 million overall. To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with capacity issues in western Fairfax would cost more, approximately $21.5 million, according to a presentation given to the School Board June 10.

Unless you can specifically cite your info, I call b.s.

And by cite, I mean a website saying that.

NotoLiz

Hey - good one.

FU version of a retweet:
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=280209&paper=72&cat=110

"..how does one define the community served by a particular school?
To many, the answer to such a question would seem obvious and the typical response would resemble something like this: "We live in the community of Orange Hunt therefore our children should attend Orange Hunt Elementary." This answer would no doubt be the same for parents throughout the county when pertaining to their neighborhood elementary school. With respect to an elementary school, the sense of ownership is almost subliminal. So obvious it is beyond question. The defined area or community served by the elementary school is also, in most instances quite clear. To many parents of elementary school aged children there is little room for argument regarding "ownership."
Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
Fairfax Station"

Fairfax County and specifically, Clifton and Fairfax Station, could not agree with you more Ms. Bradsher - never thought the day would come when we did agree with you...only thing, that day was Thursday, March 30, 2006. Too bad you have sold out every value and scrap of integrity you were holding Stu Gibson to in this article. You have been co-opted by the man.

pgens:

One family did come forward - before the well was proved to be fine last week - and offer to pay to fix or drill a new one.
Liz's response = no can do.

Seems like there is nothing on earth - money from feds, money from community, historic preservation, take it off the queue, build an addition to add more kids, wait to see if enrollment really declines, do modest renovations, do a boundary study FIRST...nothing - no reasonable, no achievable solution will be accepted by Liz. None.

So...you have to ask yourself, it money won't change her mind, getting WSHS moved up in the queue won't change her mind, adding more kids won't change her mind, waiting to see if enrollment won't change her mind...then what is really wrong? There is no proposal or offer of help that she hasn't rebuffed - dogged refusal to listen to reason, facts, alternatives, option, experts, preservation agencies, community requests to retain its 141 year anchor - means there is an ulterior motive. There is no other explanation. Her own words in that above article convict her.

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens:
>
> One family did come forward - before the well was
> proved to be fine last week - and offer to pay to
> fix or drill a new one.
> Liz's response = no can do.

Finally something interesting. Im sure Liz turned it down due to some regulation or insurance policy, but if someone offered to make such a large donation and was ignored then you might have a case against her.

real Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sounds like Joey is in HS whereas "little Johnny"
> is still at Clifton ES. It appears that John
> however could work circles around "little Joey".
> What; he gets up early so he can play in the
> indoor/chlorinated pool before school? And he does
> this in the summer as well? IMPRESSIVE!
> I just hope the 15 minutes that it takes to mow
> the lawn doesn't tucker the poor little fellow
> out. Let's face it, tending to the farm in
> Clifton can not compare to the ease of the meager
> upkeep needed on your subdivision lot.
> Clifton living, it's not a easy life, but it is a
> good one!

More elitist crap from a KKKliftonite. Closing that run down school will save money and most of the county is glad the board had the guts to stand up to you and your minions, in spite of the possibility of losing the next election. That was a great display of courage, especially on the part of Ms. Bradsher, doing the right thing knowing the wrath she would face from the self entitled in Clifton.

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Seems like there is nothing on earth - money from
> feds, money from community, historic preservation,
> take it off the queue, build an addition to add
> more kids, wait to see if enrollment really
> declines, do modest renovations, do a boundary
> study FIRST...nothing - no reasonable, no
> achievable solution will be accepted by Liz. None.
>
>
> So...you have to ask yourself, it money won't
> change her mind, getting WSHS moved up in the
> queue won't change her mind, adding more kids
> won't change her mind, waiting to see if
> enrollment won't change her mind...then what is
> really wrong? There is no proposal or offer of
> help that she hasn't rebuffed - dogged refusal to
> listen to reason, facts, alternatives, option,
> experts, preservation agencies, community requests
> to retain its 141 year anchor - means there is an
> ulterior motive. There is no other explanation.
> Her own words in that above article convict her.

You are truly deluded.

I am sick and tired of all these baseless accusations made of these wonderful School Board members that God has blessed us with.

These folks are ALWAYS doing the right thing, being fiscally responsible and putting the interests of our kids first. So, quit the criticizing-I wish we had more like these people running our county government. Imagine how much money we would save!!

Some examples:

Our CIP is a mess-we have no money, schools have waited nearly 50 years for renovations, but these members voted just last year to buy and renovate a fancy office building at Gatehouse II for their staff. They said the $120 million purchase would have saved us tons of money! Thankfully the BOS said hell no!

On both the 2005 and 2007 bond referendum, they asked the taxpayers for $2,000,000 for planning money to renovate Clifton Elem. The taxpayers agreed and voted YES! Now what? Why can't the money be set aside for the well problem?
Good planning on their part.

Times are tough we have no money to waste, so let's review the 2009 bond referendum.

$50,000,000 for a bus facility
Funds for overrun costs $38,600,000-due to delays??
South County MS $50,000,000-cut in line-how many empty seats are at neighboring schools? 300? 400? 500?
Modular Relocation Money $9,750,000-woops, we put them at the wrong school!
Full Day Kindergarten $4,000,000!!!! Huh? You have a $2.2 billion budget and you need to stick a program cost on a bond referendum??

So, quit the hating guys. We needs these lunkheads running our school district. Especially the old-timers like Strauss,Wilson, Gibson, Smith, Storck and Center. Imagine the damage they can do if we elect them agin in 2011??

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens:
>
> One family did come forward - before the well was
> proved to be fine last week - and offer to pay to
> fix or drill a new one.
> Liz's response = no can do.

I am sure there were reasons, but I agree that if private citizens are willing to pony up money (and it is a serious, in-writing offer) then there should be further discussion.

I doubt that school board decision is the last word if you don't want it to be, lawyers can get that tied up I'm guessing.

Look at "The Liz Whisperer" picture that somebody over on the "Tessie Wilson Retiring from School Board" thread posted. Very, very funny!!!!!

CliftonRed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The woman's name is Liz Bradsher not Bradshaw. I
> made a mistake with the spelling. Anyhow, she is
> the woman who betrayed her community and voted for
> Clifton Elementary to close.

Stand in line because there was already a thread called 'Liz Bradsher Has Forgotten Her Roots' even before Clifton got closed. Go take a look see.

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The utter shock of folks not getting what they
> wanted for once is quite telling in these Clifton
> threads. It does make one wonder what the fear is
> with losing this school. Clifton isn't diverse,
> and I do think WTL may be on target with his
> assertion.
>
> Census: The racial makeup of the town was 98.92%
> white, 0.54% Asian, 0.54% from other races.
> Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.54% of the
> population.

Your census figures must be from the town of Clifton, not the school district. According to the school profile, the CES school body is 80% white, 20% non-white. Not very different from the surrounding schools that will end up absorbing the Clifton students. Fairview, Sangster, Union Mill, etc., are all about 70 percent non-hispanic white; hardly hot-beds of diversity.

So whatever it is Clifton parents "fear" .... I don't think race has much to do with it. Might it be....losing their community school? As Liz Bradsher well knows, parents in FFx value their neighborhood schools. She certainly fought hard enough for her own.

imonsld:

Your lack of knowledge is growing tiresome. Every single number is FCPS generated (bona fide or not).
Here you go - page 17, Final Staff Report.

KeepOnTruckin:
Yes, Mommylion is correct. While they were unable to donate it gratis, they could have 'sold' it for the sum of $1 (value, consideration et al); but this was another case of the SB refusing any plausible solution. Persistent obstinance and relentless pursuit to close the school. What a shame the SB didn't consider placing a fraction of the effort to the mission of keeping it open. Would have been over long ago and many satisfied parties.

The individual who signs up with many different names and keeps hurling all the bogus racial insinuations, give it a rest. No one is buying it (Little Miss Bradsher maybe?). Your one person campaign will not sully the reputation of thousands of people and a decent community.
Attachments:

Oye,
Sorry - not sure why that posted so large - ironic...matches FCPS' inflated figures?
The $7.6M midrange includes much in the way of well expenses...have we seen the mystery new well report Tistadt release during the vote and referenced saying water is fine?
The $ total keeps going down...

Hey all about savings:

Wasn't GateCastle II more like $180M?

But they can't find EDA bond $ to the tune of $7M for Clifton's school at 98% and a top performer?
Instead of fixing CIP and more, the energy was dumped into a year and categorically wasting another, what, $1-$2M maybe to find a way to shutter it?
Anti-Tax:
Yes, it was a total waste because now there is no plan to build at Liberty - if the SWRPC was such a super engagement process and valuable effort why has the major portion been tossed aside? You know, the part that solves overcrowding?
That the community had to educate the staff on the liabilities of the site is just sad.

Last one - since we are enjoying Math class.
Attachments:

NotLiz:

I didn't believe it when I saw the quote...went and pulled it. There must be another Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher in Fairfax Station, because this is her good twin...not the one we know. What happened to this Liz - her I'll take - the other, not so much. It is especially great how she drags Gibson over the coals...party like its 2006, Liz!

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=280209&paper=72&cat=110
Who Owns the Schools?
Letter to the Editor
Thursday, March 30, 2006
To the Editor:
I have watched and read with interest the West Springfield High School (WSHS) boundary debate. As most of the Connection readers know, the WSHS Boundary Study ended on Feb. 23 with no change taking place to the current boundary.
Whether I agree with the School Board decision regarding WSHS is of little matter. What I found of interest were the various comments made by the members of the School Board during the study and vote. One such comment came from School Board member Mr. Stuart Gibson (Hunter Mill District) during the Feb. 13 School Board Work Session. He questioned his fellow members on the board asking whether a community has ownership of a particular school? A corollary to this question is how does one define the community served by a particular school?
To many, the answer to such a question would seem obvious and the typical response would resemble something like this: "We live in the community of Orange Hunt therefore our children should attend Orange Hunt Elementary." This answer would no doubt be the same for parents throughout the county when pertaining to their neighborhood elementary school. With respect to an elementary school, the sense of ownership is almost subliminal. So obvious it is beyond question. The defined area or community served by the elementary school is also, in most instances quite clear. To many parents of elementary school aged children there is little room for argument regarding "ownership."
The issue however is not so black and white when it comes to schools with special programs, high schools, or even for that matter, middle schools. High schools, secondary schools and middle schools are comprised of students from varied and sometimes distant communities. This is the same for elementary schools with special programs such as those for GT and Special Needs students. These schools have students who live great distances from their school. The ownership issue and answer to Mr. Gibson's initial question is now not so easily answered. Nor is the question of community so easily defined.
Where the ownership debate will go I have no idea, but the question as well as the current perception of "school ownership" looms for the South County and Westfield communities because these communities have been recommended for future boundary studies. Comments from a Washington Post blog on the WSHS Boundary Study indicate parents, for the most part, do indeed perceive they have ownership of their high school. I suspect there are many parents in the county with the same sense of ownership when it comes to their child's school.
The School Board and the FCPS system must come to terms with the definition of what is a "community school" and "ownership of one's school." It appears the public, the School Board and school system all differ with respect to the basic philosophical definitions as well as the perceptions of these two terms. The public deserves an accountable boundary process. A process that is well defined with ranked criteria and addresses the issue of "ownership," perception, proximity, as well as community history. To refrain from addressing these issues is selling the public short. I don't think the public/parents of this county deserve that, do you?

Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
Fairfax Station

SayWHAT? pic from another thread - that's more like it.
Again what happened to the "other" Liz???
Attachments:

Interesting comparisons when you look at the 2007 bond referendum and the actual bid costs coming in.

Stenwood Elem $15,100,000 (bond) vs $12,459,000
Westlawn Elem $20,000,000 (bond) vs $16,655,000
Franconia $18,500,000 (bond) vs $14,639,001
Beech Tree $15,300,000 (bond) vs $11,927,116

Looks like there is plenty of savings that can be used to take care of Clifton's water problems or at least accelerate the CIP.

Who is minding the candy store?

show me the money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting comparisons when you look at the 2007
> bond referendum and the actual bid costs coming
> in.
>
> Stenwood Elem $15,100,000 (bond) vs $12,459,000
> Westlawn Elem $20,000,000 (bond) vs $16,655,000
> Franconia $18,500,000 (bond) vs $14,639,001
> Beech Tree $15,300,000 (bond) vs $11,927,116
>
> Looks like there is plenty of savings that can be
> used to take care of Clifton's water problems or
> at least accelerate the CIP.
>
> Who is minding the candy store?

Interesting - and what about Pimmit Hills closure? Didn't the voters pass a bond to renovate that school? However, wasn't there an article recently that said closing it would make it possible to shift the $6 million leftover from the bond money the voters voted for to other projects?

The Clifton community should embrace this opportunity by doing a top to bottom review of the CIP and how money is spent.

Pimmitt Hills renovation was on the 2007 bond-I doubt they actually borrowed the money yet, since they are still on 2005 items. As of Jan 2010 there was still $94 million from 2005 not authorized.

The law does not allow FCPS to replace one voter approved bond item with another. If the funds are not used for that specific purpose then they are forfeited.

Recent exceptions include, Graham Road renovation money shifted to their newly relocated school and the BRAC planning money which was shifted to SOCO Middle-a violation in my opinion that would not withstand a court challenge. BRAC was a scare tactic used by idiots like Dale and Storck to extort federal dollars. They ended up driving the ARMY to build in Alexandria because they were so rude and unappreciative. Typical stupid behavior for these nitwits.

Isn't that illegal for FCPS to use BRAC planning money specifically for SOCO Middle School?

This is all very interesting, money in motion. Thanks for telling us.

CliftonParent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> show me the money Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Interesting comparisons when you look at the
> 2007
> > bond referendum and the actual bid costs coming
> > in.
> >
> > Stenwood Elem $15,100,000 (bond) vs
> $12,459,000
> > Westlawn Elem $20,000,000 (bond) vs
> $16,655,000
> > Franconia $18,500,000 (bond) vs
> $14,639,001
> > Beech Tree $15,300,000 (bond) vs
> $11,927,116
> >

Wait a minute. Franconia Elem. is in Brad Center's District. He voted to close Clifton because the renovation cost would be to high?? Then why was it okay to put out a bond for Franconia out for $18,500?

Yes, shifting the bRAC money to SOCO was a clear violation of the law and the public trust.

BRAC never amounted to a hill of beans and FCPS would be unable to relate any BRAC impact on SOCO construction.

That school isn't even needed right now. Chalk up another $50 million pissed away by the fiscal conservatives like Bradsher and Wilson.

Center is SO worried about lack of money, he got an artificial turf field for Lee High School at a cost of $750k.

Why would he want to get clean drinking water for the Clifton kids if he can spend it on a football field.

Center is afraid of Bradsher-they all make deals with the devil.

Center is two faced Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Center is SO worried about lack of money, he got
> an artificial turf field for Lee High School at a
> cost of $750k.
>
> Why would he want to get clean drinking water for
> the Clifton kids if he can spend it on a football
> field.
>
> Center is afraid of Bradsher-they all make deals
> with the devil.

Center has no balls.

BRAC $ to SOCO MIddle? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Isn't that illegal for FCPS to use BRAC planning
> money specifically for SOCO Middle School?
>

Actually, no it is not illegal, since that is where the additional jobs and children will be from the Ft Belvoir expansion.

Are all of you people lacking basic intelligence, or is it just the vast majority? Is it the contaminated water?

(Those are rhetorical questions)

Stoopid_Clifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BRAC $ to SOCO MIddle? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Isn't that illegal for FCPS to use BRAC
> planning
> > money specifically for SOCO Middle School?
> >
>
> Actually, no it is not illegal, since that is
> where the additional jobs and children will be
> from the Ft Belvoir expansion.
>
> Are all of you people lacking basic intelligence,
> or is it just the vast majority? Is it the
> contaminated water?
>
> (Those are rhetorical questions)

Since you are so smart, you should be on the school board ass hole.

Mathalicious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NotoLiz
>
> Hey - good one.
>
> FU version of a retweet:
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?ar
> ticle=280209&paper=72&cat=110
>
> "..how does one define the community served by a
> particular school?
> To many, the answer to such a question would seem
> obvious and the typical response would resemble
> something like this: "We live in the community of
> Orange Hunt therefore our children should attend
> Orange Hunt Elementary." This answer would no
> doubt be the same for parents throughout the
> county when pertaining to their neighborhood
> elementary school. With respect to an elementary
> school, the sense of ownership is almost
> subliminal. So obvious it is beyond question. The
> defined area or community served by the elementary
> school is also, in most instances quite clear. To
> many parents of elementary school aged children
> there is little room for argument regarding
> "ownership."
> Elizabeth Torpey Bradsher
> Fairfax Station"
>
> Fairfax County and specifically, Clifton and
> Fairfax Station, could not agree with you more Ms.
> Bradsher - never thought the day would come when
> we did agree with you...only thing, that day was
> Thursday, March 30, 2006. Too bad you have sold
> out every value and scrap of integrity you were
> holding Stu Gibson to in this article. You have
> been co-opted by the man.


Maybe most of the DEMS just knew better? This is out on the web under the Raising Kaine website. "Liz Bradsher's Conflicts of Interest"

http://www.raisingkaine.com/archive/9829.htm

To Mr. Stoopid: Is the new South County Middle School specifically for Fort Belvoir attendance area, or will it actually benefit the affluent communities nearby?

BRAC employees with children are free to choose where they live. Who statess these people will definitely choose to live within the attendance area for SOCO Middle School? Many of the BRAC folks already live here in Fairfax/Prince William County.

Langley HS is slated to have more construction/remodeling in 2014/2015. (Fairfax Times)

Interesting. They have never lacked for any funds bestowed on them from FCPS. West Springfield HS was not listed.

WaitAMinute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CliftonParent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > show me the money Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Interesting comparisons when you look at the
> > 2007
> > > bond referendum and the actual bid costs
> coming
> > > in.
> > >
> > > Stenwood Elem $15,100,000 (bond) vs
> > $12,459,000
> > > Westlawn Elem $20,000,000 (bond) vs
> > $16,655,000
> > > Franconia $18,500,000 (bond) vs
> > $14,639,001
> > > Beech Tree $15,300,000 (bond) vs
> > $11,927,116
> > >
>
> Wait a minute. Franconia Elem. is in Brad
> Center's District. He voted to close Clifton
> because the renovation cost would be to high??
> Then why was it okay to put out a bond for
> Franconia out for $18,500?

Stu Gibson has gone on record saying that Clifton would be too expensive to renovate. Marshall High School is in his district. It's interesting to note that a bond went out for almost $102 million for Marshall HS to be renovated. Why was that so different? Yes, it is a high school, but almost $102 MILLION for a renovation?!! Aren't Vienna and Freedom Hill also in his District and they went up for renovation bonds before. Aren't Vienna and Freedom Hill actually OLDER than Clifton Elementary?

Mathalicious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imonsld:
>
> Your lack of knowledge is growing tiresome. Every
> single number is FCPS generated (bona fide or
> not).
> Here you go - page 17, Final Staff Report.


Good job making a spread sheet! I'm sure your husband is proud. If you don't know, many construction projects go over budget. Even with the numbers you made up, it would still be cheaper to build a new school, on a per student cost. Not to mention the energy efficiency of a new school. The funny thing is, I live in Loudoun County. It's really funny that you attack my knowledge, or lack thereof. Maybe you should get some sleep, and get over that the school is closing. So, your kid will go to another school for a maximum of 5 years, before moving onto middle school. If you want your kid to go to a 300 person school, put it in private school. This is my last response to any of your posts, it's summer time! Have a drink and relax!

imonlsd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathalicious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > imonsld:
> >
> > Your lack of knowledge is growing tiresome.
> Every
> > single number is FCPS generated (bona fide or
> > not).
> > Here you go - page 17, Final Staff Report.
>
>
> Good job making a spread sheet! I'm sure your
> husband is proud. If you don't know, many
> construction projects go over budget. Even with
> the numbers you made up, it would still be cheaper
> to build a new school, on a per student cost. Not
> to mention the energy efficiency of a new school.
> The funny thing is, I live in Loudoun County. It's
> really funny that you attack my knowledge, or lack
> thereof. Maybe you should get some sleep, and get
> over that the school is closing. So, your kid will
> go to another school for a maximum of 5 years,
> before moving onto middle school. If you want your
> kid to go to a 300 person school, put it in
> private school. This is my last response to any of
> your posts, it's summer time! Have a drink and
> relax!


imonsld might be onto something. After all, there are always those pesky costs that don't get included in even though somebody knew they were there -- asbestos soil removal, as just one example.

WaitAMinute Wrote:
> Stu Gibson has gone on record saying that Clifton
> would be too expensive to renovate. Marshall High
> School is in his district. It's interesting to
> note that a bond went out for almost $102 million
> for Marshall HS to be renovated. Why was that so
> different? Yes, it is a high school, but almost
> $102 MILLION for a renovation?!! Aren't Vienna
> and Freedom Hill also in his District and they
> went up for renovation bonds before. Aren't
> Vienna and Freedom Hill actually OLDER than
> Clifton Elementary?

Marshall HS isn't in Gibson's district (Hunter Mill), but instead in the Providence District. Nor is $102 million being set aside for the Marshall renovation; it's more like $90 million, which is a lot of money but similar to the amounts spent recently to renovate other high schools.

In addition, the enrollment at Marshall - unlike that at Clifton ES - has been growing steadily and is projected to continue to increase in the coming years.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WaitAMinute Wrote:
> > Stu Gibson has gone on record saying that
> Clifton
> > would be too expensive to renovate. Marshall
> High
> > School is in his district. It's interesting to
> > note that a bond went out for almost $102
> million
> > for Marshall HS to be renovated. Why was that
> so
> > different? Yes, it is a high school, but
> almost
> > $102 MILLION for a renovation?!! Aren't Vienna
> > and Freedom Hill also in his District and they
> > went up for renovation bonds before. Aren't
> > Vienna and Freedom Hill actually OLDER than
> > Clifton Elementary?
>
> Marshall HS isn't in Gibson's district (Hunter
> Mill), but instead in the Providence District.
> Nor is $102 million being set aside for the
> Marshall renovation; it's more like $90 million,
> which is a lot of money but similar to the amounts
> spent recently to renovate other high schools.
>

Maybe you're right and it isn't in his district... Maybe it is just some inaccurate data on the part of FCPS (which would no longer be a surprise to folks in Clifton!) because Marshall HS IS listed under Hunter Mill District on the FCPS website. Here is the link that shows it:
http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/members/huntermilldistrict.htm

You mentioned that it is more like $90 million being set aside. Thank you for that information because that is a $12 million difference from what was on the bond referendum in 2009 that the voters voted for so thank you for sharing. Again, though, maybe I am wrong. That $ 101,822,000 million to renovate Marshall High School (to be exact) is listed on the FCPS website here:
http://www.fcps.edu/news/bond09.htm

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WaitAMinute Wrote:
>
>
> In addition, the enrollment at Marshall - unlike
> that at Clifton ES - has been growing steadily and
> is projected to continue to increase in the coming
> years.

Yet, Clifton was included in a FCPS Feasilbity Study on overcrowding in South County JUST ONE YEAR AGO... hmm....

Of course, now that everyone knows the school is to be closed and there was not even a scrap of consideration or plan in place of where those children will go, who is going to want to stay there or move there? So, FCPS can now purposefully DRIVE The numbers down next year. Thanks FCPS too for making the lives of the teachers there a horrible stressful environment for the next year (as if putting them on pay freezes the last 2 years wasn't enough!)

For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills, the building is not actually closing. Other programs are being moved into that building. The high school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers were destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten jobs elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1 million savings). But the building is not being sold, etc. and there is no savings on that account.

WaitAMinute Wrote:
> Maybe you're right and it isn't in his district...
> Maybe it is just some inaccurate data on the part
> of FCPS (which would no longer be a surprise to
> folks in Clifton!) because Marshall HS IS listed
> under Hunter Mill District on the FCPS website.
> Here is the link that shows it:
> http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/members/huntermilldistr
> ict.htm
>
> You mentioned that it is more like $90 million
> being set aside. Thank you for that information
> because that is a $12 million difference from what
> was on the bond referendum in 2009 that the voters
> voted for so thank you for sharing. Again,
> though, maybe I am wrong. That $ 101,822,000
> million to renovate Marshall High School (to be
> exact) is listed on the FCPS website here:
> http://www.fcps.edu/news/bond09.htm

The FCPS list you posted is a bit screwy - all it apparently means is that there are some students who attend Marshall who live in the Hunter Mill district. The list also mentions Langley, but Langley's not in the Hunter Mill district either (it's in the Dranesville district). If you check the list for Providence schools, you'll also find Marshall listed and, if you check the list of Dranesville schools, you'll find Langley listed again. In any event, the relevant point is that the other members of the School Board typically defer to the Providence and Dranesville representatives (Patty Reed and Janie Strauss), and not Stu Gibson, where Marshall and Langley are concerned. As others know all too well, Gibson does call the shots where South Lakes and Madison are concerned.

The information on the bond referendum that you posted is different from what was shown in the CIP in prior years, but it may be that the amount was increased upwards. It doesn't change the fact that the School Board believes the enrollment at Marshall is going to continue to increase, yet thinks that the enrollment at Clifton ES is going to decline. Is the Silver Line coming to Clifton?

Fairfax Taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After reading the outrageously snobby posts coming
> from those alleging to be Clifton parents, I hope
> they tear down the old school and turn it into a
> sewage treatment plant. I wonder if their
> children will grow up to be as stuck up as they
> are. Maybe not, now that they'll have to
> integrate with the "rest" of the county.
>
> They sound awfully racist, are they afraid their
> urchin may buddy up with a child named Juan, or
> have a childhood crush on an innocent girl from
> Venezuela named Adela?
>
> Meanwhile, I didn't see anything on the news about
> Clifton residents picketing outside the government
> center. They didn't care enough to get off their
> asses and create a media event out of it? It is
> almost as if they are too stuck up to defend
> themselves sensibly. Ah well, you should have
> done more and now it is too late.


Please substantiate your claims that Clifton residents "seem awfully racist." Give us evidence to prove your point. Can you, or is it just a inane theory of yours?
Almost everyone in town that I am friends with voted for Obama including some of the more conservative ones. In my opinion, that is evidence that weakens your argument.
But I am sure that after making such a strong accusation towards the people of Clifton that you can back up your statements with plenty of concrete facts and information that support your contention. Let's hear them.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WaitAMinute Wrote:
In any event, the relevant point is that
> the other members of the School Board typically
> defer to the Providence and Dranesville
> representatives (Patty Reed and Janie Strauss),
> and not Stu Gibson, where Marshall and Langley are
> concerned.

Patty Reed did not vote on the closure of Clifton. Thus, what you are basically saying is that based on your analysis of the Board structure, it was actually Janie Straus that had a bond go out for approx. $102M to renovate a school within her own district but voted to close Clifton. Also, if your numbers have any relevance in fact (where is your data?), it still leaves open the question of what happened to the $12M difference between your numbers and what the voters approved.

The School Board has many beliefs and quite a few people throughout the County are now questioning just where some of those Board Members are channeling those beliefs from. When the searing rays of reality burn through their fogs of self-delusion, they'll be able to ride the Silver Line into Clifton.

more info Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills, the
> building is not actually closing. Other programs
> are being moved into that building. The high
> school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers were
> destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten jobs
> elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1
> million savings). But the building is not being
> sold, etc. and there is no savings on that
> account.

Other programs...

"The school system’s chief operating officer Dean Tistadt would also like to open a fourth maintenance office at the Pimmit Hills location.

Tistadt said Fairfax County Public Schools expects to lose 29 maintenance positions as a result of budget cuts next year and the new office would mean those maintenance men who remain would spent less time driving to schools and more time fixing problems."

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/articleprint.asp?article=336271&paper=71&cat=104

PH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> more info Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills,
> the
> > building is not actually closing. Other
> programs
> > are being moved into that building. The high
> > school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers
> were
> > destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten
> jobs
> > elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1
> > million savings). But the building is not
> being
> > sold, etc. and there is no savings on that
> > account.
>
> Other programs...
>
> "The school system’s chief operating officer Dean
> Tistadt would also like to open a fourth
> maintenance office at the Pimmit Hills location.
>
> Tistadt said Fairfax County Public Schools expects
> to lose 29 maintenance positions as a result of
> budget cuts next year and the new office would
> mean those maintenance men who remain would spent
> less time driving to schools and more time fixing
> problems."
>
> http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/articleprint.
> asp?article=336271&paper=71&cat=104


"Bryant Alternative High School in the Mount Vernon area and Mountain View Alternative High School in Centreville offer similar programs. Woodson Adult High School, located at Woodson Secondary School in Fairfax, also offers high school diploma programs specifically for adults."

"If Pimmit Hills closed, the school system said the county’s other adult and alternative high schools would absorb its 276 students."

Note: Mountain View Alternative High School property is close to the epicenter of overcrowding identified in the Southwestern Regional Boundary Study.

WaitAMinute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Factchecker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > WaitAMinute Wrote:
> In any event, the relevant point is that
> > the other members of the School Board typically
> > defer to the Providence and Dranesville
> > representatives (Patty Reed and Janie Strauss),
> > and not Stu Gibson, where Marshall and Langley
> are
> > concerned.
>
> Patty Reed did not vote on the closure of Clifton.
> Thus, what you are basically saying is that based
> on your analysis of the Board structure, it was
> actually Janie Straus that had a bond go out for
> approx. $102M to renovate a school within her own
> district but voted to close Clifton. Also, if
> your numbers have any relevance in fact (where is
> your data?), it still leaves open the question of
> what happened to the $12M difference between your
> numbers and what the voters approved.
>
> The School Board has many beliefs and quite a few
> people throughout the County are now questioning
> just where some of those Board Members are
> channeling those beliefs from. When the searing
> rays of reality burn through their fogs of
> self-delusion, they'll be able to ride the Silver
> Line into Clifton.

You should be focusing your dissatisfaction on Liz Bradsher. If she didn't want Clifton closed, neither Stu Gibson nor the other members who voted in favor of closing the school would have done so. They would have deferred to her views since Clifton is in her district.

Thomas More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will Liz get the Republican endorsement next year?


Endorsements -- Out on the web is a webpage that has this to say about some of the other endorsements "Ask Liz Bradsher—can she effectively represent all of Springfield’s schools when she fabricates endorsements, embellishes accomplishments, and can’t even get the positions she claims to have held on her grip card?"

Read this:
http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/2007/09/kenton-kicking-.html

This is all really simple to understand.

Liz wanted to get West Springfield High Schol moved up on the renovation schedule. By cutting a deal with Tistadt and screwing Clifton folks, WSHS will see renovations approximately 4 years earlier than originally planned.

It doesn't matter that the Clifton community was willing to waive their renovations-saving $11 million, nor that they had privately raised money for the well problem-saving $1 million, nothing matters.

The deal was made months ago when she landed WSHS on the CIP.

She played the Clifton folks telling them to "lay low", lying to them, when she really had no intention ever of fighting for your school.

You were the sacrificial lamb.

Save your money on a lawsuit and instead send it all to her opponent in the 2011 Springfield District SB election. Bury her politically.

The snake needs to see some payback for her misdeeds.

Factchecker Wrote:
> You should be focusing your dissatisfaction on Liz
> Bradsher. If she didn't want Clifton closed,
> neither Stu Gibson nor the other members who voted
> in favor of closing the school would have done so.
> They would have deferred to her views since
> Clifton is in her district.

That is exactly how it works. If the Clifton parents are dissatisfied, they should fund her opponent in the next School Board election. Pissing off folks who live in other parts of the county where the schools generally are considerably older and in worse condition than the schools in the Robinson pyramid isn't going to win any friends or sympathy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2010 10:13AM by Mozart.

inquiry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please substantiate your claims that Clifton
> residents "seem awfully racist." Give us evidence
> to prove your point.
>
> Almost everyone in town that I am friends with
> voted for Obama

"My best friend is black" and "I have black friends!" are the knee-jerk reactions of racists when called out, and the fact that you posted that here in your own defense is interesting.

Also interesting... what does voting for Obama have to do with whether or not you are racist? You and your friends in Clifton voted for Obama DESPITE his race? Odd that you would bring that up as a defense or as evidence of not being a racist... that is a very racist position.

Voting for Obama does not prove that a person is not racist.

Voting for a particular candidate partly due to the person's race is racist.

-----
> > For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills,
> the
> > building is not actually closing. Other
> programs
> > are being moved into that building. The high
> > school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers
> were
> > destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten
> jobs
> > elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1
> > million savings). But the building is not
> being
> > sold, etc. and there is no savings on that
> > account.
>
> Other programs...
>
> "The school system’s chief operating officer Dean
> Tistadt would also like to open a fourth
> maintenance office at the Pimmit Hills location.
>
> Tistadt said Fairfax County Public Schools expects
> to lose 29 maintenance positions as a result of
> budget cuts next year and the new office would
> mean those maintenance men who remain would spent
> less time driving to schools and more time fixing
> problems."
>
> [www.connectionnewspapers.com].
> asp?article=336271&paper=71&cat=104


"Bryant Alternative High School in the Mount Vernon area and Mountain View Alternative High School in Centreville offer similar programs. Woodson Adult High School, located at Woodson Secondary School in Fairfax, also offers high school diploma programs specifically for adults."

"If Pimmit Hills closed, the school system said the county’s other adult and alternative high schools would absorb its 276 students."

Note: Mountain View Alternative High School property is close to the epicenter of overcrowding identified in the Southwestern Regional Boundary Study.



How does this all save money? The schools that absorb the 276 Pimmit Hills students have to hire more teachers to handle those students (not to mention find classroom space for them). FCPS is not realizing a savings from the Pimmit Hills building being closed since it will be used for Tistadt & Co. and whoever else. FCPS can say they save $1 million, but this all looks like smoke and mirrors. It's all a shell game.

We are being played constantly by the SB and Dale. We need to get them all out of there. It seems like there are no consequences for people who play fast and loose with our money (whether it be Wall Street or the politicians). No ethics anywhere.

all a game Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > For those of you who mentioned Pimmit Hills,
> > the
> > > building is not actually closing. Other
> > programs
> > > are being moved into that building. The high
> > > school at Pimmit is closing so those teachers
>
> > were
> > > destaffed. Many of them have probably gotten
> > jobs
> > > elsewhere in the county (I guess that's a $1
> > > million savings). But the building is not
> > being
> > > sold, etc. and there is no savings on that
> > > account.
> >
> > Other programs...
> >
> > "The school system’s chief operating officer
> Dean
> > Tistadt would also like to open a fourth
> > maintenance office at the Pimmit Hills location.
>
> >
> > Tistadt said Fairfax County Public Schools
> expects
> > to lose 29 maintenance positions as a result of
>
> > budget cuts next year and the new office would
> > mean those maintenance men who remain would
> spent
> > less time driving to schools and more time
> fixing
> > problems."
> >
> > .
> > asp?article=336271&paper=71&cat=104
>
>
> "Bryant Alternative High School in the Mount
> Vernon area and Mountain View Alternative High
> School in Centreville offer similar programs.
> Woodson Adult High School, located at Woodson
> Secondary School in Fairfax, also offers high
> school diploma programs specifically for adults."
>
>
> "If Pimmit Hills closed, the school system said
> the county’s other adult and alternative high
> schools would absorb its 276 students."
>
> Note: Mountain View Alternative High School
> property is close to the epicenter of overcrowding
> identified in the Southwestern Regional Boundary
> Study.
>
>
>
> How does this all save money? The schools that
> absorb the 276 Pimmit Hills students have to hire
> more teachers to handle those students (not to
> mention find classroom space for them). FCPS is
> not realizing a savings from the Pimmit Hills
> building being closed since it will be used for
> Tistadt & Co. and whoever else. FCPS can say they
> save $1 million, but this all looks like smoke and
> mirrors. It's all a shell game.
>
> We are being played constantly by the SB and Dale.
> We need to get them all out of there. It seems
> like there are no consequences for people who play
> fast and loose with our money (whether it be Wall
> Street or the politicians). No ethics anywhere.


Isn't Mountain View actually the old Centreville Elementary school? Obviously it is still being used as an educational facility. If it is in the middle of the overcrowding, why didn't the Southwestern Subcommittee just suggest that it be re-purposed back into an Elementary School? If they were trying to figure out what to do with the alternative schools, why not just send the kids from Mountain View to Pimmit instead? They could have left Clifton Elementary open, not renovate it (and done some redistricting), and reuse Mountain View (an already existing school in the epicenter of the overcrowding previously used as an Elementary school). Wouldn't that have saved money? Instead, now they are either going to have to put additions on new schools or build a new school. How does that save money?

inquiry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Almost everyone in town that I am friends with
> voted for Obama


That statement itself is racist.

Time to face the facts. Clifton ES needed to be closed. All the whining and carrying on here will not change that, or the decision that has been rendered. All your points should have been brought forth before the vote, not now.

"why didn't the Southwestern Subcommittee just suggest that it be re-purposed back into an Elementary School?"

Why didn't you think of that 12 months ago?

Too late

hahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Nobody thought about that 12 months ago because nobody knew they were going to close Pimmit Hills 12 months ago! You can laugh all you want, but you're still DUMB! You must be on the school board. Your comment sounds like a 10 year old who stole brought out the loaded dice in a Monopoly game.

And enough on racism. Ridiculous argument.

yupper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "why didn't the Southwestern Subcommittee just
> suggest that it be re-purposed back into an
> Elementary School?"
>
> Why didn't you think of that 12 months ago?
>

Maybe if there had been more time (as Martina Hone) proposed to review the data, that would have been possible but most of the rest of the School Board rushed to vote. Also (unlike FCPS staff) residents of Clifton full-time PAID job is NOT to provide data to School Board Members and FCPS staff. Maybe the better question would be is whether or not FCPS Staff provided that location to the Subcommittee at the beginning of the process so that it could be reviewed thorougly by them?

noper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And enough on racism. Ridiculous argument.

Seems to be hitting a little close to the truth, why are you trying so hard to change the subject? Seems defensive.

I'm changing back to the subject of the thread. If you want to start a thread on racism, go ahead . . . this thread is about the Clifton Elementary School closing.

Hey, justsaying, we are growing weary of your empty, meaningless arguments about racism.

Put up or shut up.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> You should be focusing your dissatisfaction on Liz
> Bradsher. If she didn't want Clifton closed,
> neither Stu Gibson nor the other members who voted
> in favor of closing the school would have done so.
> They would have deferred to her views since
> Clifton is in her district.

You raise a good point actually. If all the other Board Members are just going to defer to another Board Member than how does that serve the County residents overall? Ultimately, bad decisions can be made based on one person's views which can just drive up EVERYONE'S else's taxes. Maybe that is the core problem here.

Interesting point. We need more independently minded thinkers on the board---like Tina Hone. Not the "good old boys" club.

I also think Jack Dale has to go. His motivation is suspect.

FCPS pisses away millions of dollars on these dim-witted consultants, The Aspen Group. They have embraced a process called strategic governance. What do we get for our money? CRAP.

SG basically excludes community input in decision making and calls for all school board members to "fall in line".

Rather than have a healthy debate on a topic, what we get are a bunch of puppets or bobbleheads who all agree with whatever stupid idea comes from Dale and his staff. No tough questions asked, please, policy prohibits SB members from "embarrasing" staff members-this is actually written in their code of conduct.

So, when staff said that Gatehouse II would save our school district $35 million dollars over 30 years, nobody bothered to question them.

When Bradsher had SOCO Middle School put into the 2008 bond deal and demanded construction begin AHEAD of 2005 projects-just one school board member opposed it-Stu Gibson. Probably the only smart decision he has ever made.

We could have robots up there folks-it wouldn't matter.

Exception to this is Hone and newly elected members Reed and Evans. They are truly trying to change this dysfunctional entity but are currently outgunned.

CP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Factchecker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > You should be focusing your dissatisfaction on
> Liz
> > Bradsher. If she didn't want Clifton closed,
> > neither Stu Gibson nor the other members who
> voted
> > in favor of closing the school would have done
> so.
> > They would have deferred to her views since
> > Clifton is in her district.
>
> You raise a good point actually. If all the
> other Board Members are just going to defer to
> another Board Member than how does that serve the
> County residents overall? Ultimately, bad
> decisions can be made based on one person's views
> which can just drive up EVERYONE'S else's taxes.
> Maybe that is the core problem here.

Most county residents don't even know where Clifton is, much less that one of the area elementary schools is slated to be closed.

That being the case, the School Board members generally are prepared to scratch each other's backs, when it comes to issues like redistricting and school closings. The School Board wouldn't have voted to relocate Graham Road ES unless that was what Phil Niedzielski-Eichner (the Providence District member at the time) wanted, and it wouldn't have voted to close Clifton unless it was what Liz Bradsher favored.

It's very nice that Martina Hone gets the crowds cheering at the School Board meetings. But, while it may make some parents feel better that she gives voice to their sentiments, her views very rarely carry the day. She's more of a safety valve than a persuasive advocate on the Board.

To: imonlsd

I just pulled down the Final Staff Report to look at the numbers...the spreadsheet above isn't from Mathalicious, it is the same spreadsheet pasted into the Report by FCPS Staff.
Why are you saying these numbers are 'made up' when these are the budgets and projections generated by FCPS itself? It appears Mathalicious just copied and pasted Staff's document.

So exactly what is your problem with the numbers? The insults are coming through loud and clear, but where are your facts?

"For Clifton Elementary School the following options were provided:
1. Renovate the school at its current location and upgrade the facility to the extent possible.
2. Close the school and relocate the students to a new elementary school that could be built on the Liberty Middle School site. Under this scenario, it might be appropriate to consider moving some Clifton students from the eastern portion of that school’s attendance area to schools more proximate to their homes, i.e., Oak View, Fairview, or Sangster Elementary Schools. This option would not require changes to current middle and high school assignments."

So, if these were the two options provided by Staff to the Board, how is it that the Board did neither? No renovation. No Liberty School to move their students to...and leaving their community facing changes in middle school and high school assignments.

Read the Staff report top to bottom and there is no analysis to support this move. Basically, the Board went rogue even in the face of their own Staff's recommendations. #3 doesn't exist - Close Clifton and shove all the kids wherever.

Montgomery County is predicting an increase of nearly 5000 new students in K-5 by the year 2015.

The UVA study stated about 6500-7000 for FCPS.

Does anyone have a plan for these kids????

If we close Clifton and stick them in schools that are already at capacity, where exactly are these 7000 kids going to attend school?

Ideas, anyone?

Factchecker is absolutely correct: "It doesn't change the fact that the School Board believes the enrollment at Marshall is going to continue to increase."

The operative word - 'believes' - apparently the School Board merely needs to believe something to make it so. A la the tobacco industry executives testifying in front of Congress:
"I believe nicotine is not addictive", "I believe nicotine is not addictive", "I believe nicotine is not addictive" - ad naseum.

FCPS School Board:
"I believe the population is declining at Clifton Elementary", "I believe the population is declining at Clifton Elementary", "I believe the population is declining at Clifton Elementary".

There should be a NEW Zero Tolerance Policy - the taxpayers in Fairfax County need to adopt a Zero Tolerance Policy for School Board members who exhibit no transparency, no ethics and no integrity in their actions.

No Confidence Vote: Smith, Wilson, Gibson, Center, Storck, Strauss and Bradsher.

population increasing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Montgomery County is predicting an increase of
> nearly 5000 new students in K-5 by the year 2015.
>
> The UVA study stated about 6500-7000 for FCPS.
>
> Does anyone have a plan for these kids????
>
> If we close Clifton and stick them in schools that
> are already at capacity, where exactly are these
> 7000 kids going to attend school?
>
> Ideas, anyone?


The SB was presented with the study from UVA before they voted to close Clifton. They disregarded the report because it is "using a different methodology than the one employed by FCPS, and the UVA report considers different factors in that the County does not." Yeah, like all of the data instead of just the data to support your case against Clifton.

Once again the SB telling the general public that they know what's best. Forget the constituents, the experts, the state and federal agencies that supported keeping Clifton open, the many local elected officials that supported keeping Clifton open.... Forget all of them. The SB obviously knows what they are doing. They've done such a superb job of doing what's best for our children, and of course they are always looking out for the best interests of the taxpayers.

After all, as one Clifton parent was told by Ms. Bradsher, "All of the schools in Fairfax County are basically exactly the same. Your child will receive the exact same education no matter which school he attends."
Really???? So all those "Title I" schools don't really need all that extra funding because they are failing??? After all, if all schools in FFX Co. are exactly the same, why are some schools entitled to more funding than others???

MollyCorbin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Factchecker is absolutely correct: "It doesn't
> change the fact that the School Board believes the
> enrollment at Marshall is going to continue to
> increase."
>
> The operative word - 'believes' - apparently the
> School Board merely needs to believe something to
> make it so. A la the tobacco industry executives
> testifying in front of Congress:
> "I believe nicotine is not addictive", "I believe
> nicotine is not addictive", "I believe nicotine is
> not addictive" - ad naseum.
>
> FCPS School Board:
> "I believe the population is declining at Clifton
> Elementary", "I believe the population is
> declining at Clifton Elementary", "I believe the
> population is declining at Clifton Elementary".
>
> There should be a NEW Zero Tolerance Policy - the
> taxpayers in Fairfax County need to adopt a Zero
> Tolerance Policy for School Board members who
> exhibit no transparency, no ethics and no
> integrity in their actions.
>
> No Confidence Vote: Smith, Wilson, Gibson, Center,
> Storck, Strauss and Bradsher.

The past decade saw a 7.8% decline in Clifton's enrollment and a 21.6% increase in Marshall's enrollment. Of course, the more relevant consideration is what the future capacity needs will be at local schools. I don't think FCPS's enrollment projections have proven to be highly accurate, but neither do I think they are simply made-up numbers, as you seem to imply.

The whole discussion of the Board members' lemming behavior when it comes to another District is disconcerting. When the amendment to defer closing came to a vote, the at-large members voted for it - they are the only ones who represent the interests of the WHOLE county because the run for election across all districts. So, it seems the at-large members have the greatest sense of what the County needs.

So the at-large members did a better job representing Clifton in the bigger picture because they actually serve the bigger picture. The others just sucked up to one another for future (or past) favors. Nice.

The Work Session after the Hearing Tistadt said they didn't consider Mt. View - why would they - that would have been logical and wouldn't have let them of propose building at Liberty...just close enough to justify closing Clifton. But since they aren't building at Liberty - oops! it's all 'asbestos-y' - their plot was foiled. BUT WAIT - nope, they plunged right ahead and closed it anyway. No facts, no figures, no support.

Bad water - not really.
# students going down - not really.
Renovation costs too high - not really.

So - back to Dr. Raney's question as to what, exactly, is the answer as to why we are closing Clifton?

Kathy Smith's answer: It's "on the internet."
Genius, Ms. Smith, genius.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The past decade saw a 7.8% decline in Clifton's
> enrollment

What data are you basing that information on? What is the source of the data?

MommyLion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The whole discussion of the Board members' lemming
> behavior when it comes to another District is
> disconcerting. When the amendment to defer closing
> came to a vote, the at-large members voted for it
> - they are the only ones who represent the
> interests of the WHOLE county because the run for
> election across all districts. So, it seems the
> at-large members have the greatest sense of what
> the County needs.

Doesn't matter. Given the structure of the board, the 3 at-large members will always be outvoted by the 9 district members.

When is the new walmart gonna open up at the Clifton ES site?? Can't wait! Maybe they should raise the 'town' and build a fair lakes type shopping center.

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After all, as one Clifton parent was told by Ms.
> Bradsher, "All of the schools in Fairfax County
> are basically exactly the same. Your child will
> receive the exact same education no matter which
> school he attends."
> Really???? So all those "Title I" schools don't
> really need all that extra funding because they
> are failing??? After all, if all schools in FFX
> Co. are exactly the same, why are some schools
> entitled to more funding than others???

Title I schools get additional resources under NCLB simply because they have higher percentages of lower-income students. A school isn't designated as a Title I school because it's "failing" or hasn't made AYP.

I do think it's silly to suggest that all schools are the same, if Liz Bradsher indeed said that. Is that a direct quote or a reformulation of a statement to the effect that children can get a good education at any FCPS school?

CliftonDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Factchecker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The past decade saw a 7.8% decline in Clifton's
> > enrollment
>
> What data are you basing that information on?
> What is the source of the data?

FCPS statistical reports with historical enrollment data.

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CliftonDad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Factchecker Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The past decade saw a 7.8% decline in
> Clifton's
> > > enrollment
> >
> > What data are you basing that information on?
> > What is the source of the data?
>
> FCPS statistical reports with historical
> enrollment data.

Too funny! ROTFL. The FCPS Feasilbility Report from July of last year showed Clifton would be overcrowded by 22 in 2013 (Page 18). So many numbers bouncing around. Bounce, bounce, bounce. A whole year of bounce, bounce, bounce.

Justsaying Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> inquiry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Please substantiate your claims that Clifton
> > residents "seem awfully racist." Give us
> evidence
> > to prove your point.
> >
> > Almost everyone in town that I am friends with
> > voted for Obama
>
> "My best friend is black" and "I have black
> friends!" are the knee-jerk reactions of racists
> when called out, and the fact that you posted that
> here in your own defense is interesting.
>
> Also interesting... what does voting for Obama
> have to do with whether or not you are racist?
> You and your friends in Clifton voted for Obama
> DESPITE his race? Odd that you would bring that
> up as a defense or as evidence of not being a
> racist... that is a very racist position.

Interesting logic, "Justsaying".
The fact that a community votes for a cadidate that is of a different race than they are (in this case Obama), definitely does not prove that they are not racist. But it is an indication and perhaps evidence that they are not racist. (Most racist when given the choice between a candidate of their own racial background and one of another, would choose the candidate of their own racial background.) Follow that, DIM-WIT.
Are there people in Clifton that are Racist? Perhaps. Is Clifton racist as a whole, or a racist community? I have never seen any evidence of this. To the contrary, I seen many examples of the Clifton community welcoming and embracing people from a wide assortment of backgrounds.

So again, to all of the people claiming that Clifton is a racist town, in this thread, please come forth with some evidence, or anything that supports your claim. If you are going to make judgements about people, back it up.

Found this "LIZ BRADSHER NEEDS TO RESIGN" out on this website:
http://www.fairnessinschoolsports.org/wordpress/?m=200802

" Mr. Storck 2/15/08 third request

School Board

Mr. Dale

At the end of last nights meeting you removed student after student using the zero tolerance standard for their unacceptable behavior. I agree with your decisions, because there is no place for this type of behavior in the FCPS system.

As I stated to you last night, it would be unacceptable behavior for people to confront school board members or any FCPS employee at any meeting. I am sure that you would not appreciate being attacked.


This type of behavior by a public official must not be tolerated and zero tolerance standard must be applied to Liz Bradsher actions.


I demand a response and action to be taken against the freshman school board member Liz Bradsher. If she acts in this manor after only two months on the school board, what will she do in the future?"

Inquiry:
You are off base in your thought that there are a lot of people on this board claiming Clifton is racist - there are two or three probably at best - Troll Patrol Liz, Stu and another troll or two from the SWRPC.
Troll syn. demon, ogre, goblin, hobgoblin, monster...pretty much covers these community destroying narcissistic school crushers.
(Trolls...post inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response, often extreme lengths in their attempts at eliciting reactions)
Attachments:

>CliftonDad:
>Too funny! ROTFL. The FCPS Feasilbility Report from July of last year showed Clifton would be overcrowded by 22 in 2013 (Page 18). So many numbers bouncing around. Bounce, bounce, bounce. A whole year of bounce, bounce, bounce.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public
Meetings, Jun 29, 2010 - Work Session No. 137
"There are consequences for each of the two options available to the School Board, including the following more substantive concerns.
Close Clifton Elementary School
Closing the school will add to the elementary school capacity deficit in that region."

The trolls voted to close Clifton - which will ADD to overcapacity problem - translated = close Clifton makes FCPS MORE (MORE!) crowded.

If that ain't bouncing, don't know what is.
Attachments:

Who is Liz Bradsher?


"I operate with full communication with those who are affected by a decision," Bradsher said. "I will make sure the community is involved and that there will be some discussion."
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=330154&paper=81&cat=104

After she voted to close Clifton:

"On top of her vote, NLS reports that she turned down a chance to speak at a Clifton Elementary PTA because they “haven’t been nice to her.”

http://rednova8.com/wordpress/

CliftonDad Wrote:
> Too funny! ROTFL. The FCPS Feasilbility Report
> from July of last year showed Clifton would be
> overcrowded by 22 in 2013 (Page 18). So many
> numbers bouncing around. Bounce, bounce, bounce.
> A whole year of bounce, bounce, bounce.

Why is it hilarious - it's just historical enrollment data posted on FCPS's web site. It shows that year-end enrollment at Clifton was down 7.8% in June 2010 compared to June 2000. Actually, the enrollment peaked in 2003-04 and has since declined 10.9%.

Projections do bounce around. The latest CIP projected Clifton at 13% under-capacity by 2014-15. FCPS seems to change the methodologies for its projections every other day.

NoToLiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> "On top of her vote, NLS reports that she turned
> down a chance to speak at a Clifton Elementary PTA
> because they “haven’t been nice to her”and spend countless hours whining on FFXU > and creating mindless and low quality photoshop picture slurs. Most agree that
> reasoning with these people is like dealing with 2 year olds having a
> temper tantrums.
>

Fixed it!

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Projections do bounce around. The latest CIP
> projected Clifton at 13% under-capacity by
> 2014-15. FCPS seems to change the methodologies
> for its projections every other day.

And, just in case the school won't be "under/overcrowded" change the capacities.

West County Boundary Study Capacities -

Westfield = 3100
South Lakes = 2150

Current Official Capacities -

Westfield = 2823
South Lakes = 2192

Making Westfield conveniently over capacity so the RD'ed Floris kids can't pupil place back to Westfield...

Of course, the taxpayers were told in the bond referendum that the Westfield expansion from 2500 was good for 600 kids.

PRESS RELEASE FAIRFAX EDUCATION COALITION

-- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE --

FEC Questions FCPS “Process” Used for Clifton Elementary Closure
Agrees with Public & Press Editorials That School Board Vote Was Premature

Fairfax County, VA – Monday, July 12, 2010 --- The Fairfax Education Coalition (FEC) is joining members of the community and the local media in questioning the Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) process that led to last Thursday’s School Board vote to close Clifton Elementary School.

FEC understands that the current economic condition is creating a difficult situation for FCPS policy makers. However, FEC views the School Board vote to close Clifton Elementary as premature and agrees with The Connection Newspaper’s July 8th editorial headline: “School Board Could Learn to Share: Too many decisions made with one of ‘we know best,” not enough sharing of data.”

Contrary to FCPS assertions that all documents pertaining to the closure of Clifton Elementary School were posted on the FCPS website in advance of Thursday’s vote, The Washington Examiner reported that key information concerning well-water tests for Clifton ES were emailed to School Board members by FCPS Chief Operating Officer Dean Tistadt only minutes before the final vote [“Parents, officials ‘appalled’ at decision to close Clifton school”; July 11, 2010 article].

Additionally, three prominent historical societies – National Trust for Historic Preservation, Preservation Virginia, and the Department of Historical Resources - all sent letters to the School Board Chair indicating that Clifton Elementary could be eligible for federal preservation funds based upon Clifton’s rural historical status. FEC believes that no decision should have been made without investigating whether or not the school was eligible for such federal funds.

FCPS officials tout the Clifton process and Southwestern Boundary study as the model for future FCPS boundary changes. After Thursday’s outcome, FEC is seriously concerned about this new FCPS “model” and its lack of full transparency. As the press and at least one FCPS School Board member have stated, the Clifton community maintains a high level of uncertainty as to whether FCPS staff provided them and the School Board with important data in a timely manner.

If FCPS wants to retain the public’s trust, it has to play fair with the public and be completely transparent. School officials must fully demonstrate to the public that ALL data has been properly vetted before important votes concerning school closures or boundary changes are cast. And in this case, all of the data was clearly not vetted before the vote. FCPS can and must do better.

FEC members include individual leaders from: FAIRGRADE, The Fairfax Coalition of Advocates for Public Schools (FairfaxCAPS), The Fairfax County Federation of Teachers (FCFT), The Fairfax Education Association (FEA), SLEEP, Fairfax County Association for the Gifted, and Fairfax Zero Tolerance Reform

Factchecker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CliftonDad Wrote:
> > Too funny! ROTFL. The FCPS Feasilbility
> Report
> > from July of last year showed Clifton would be
> > overcrowded by 22 in 2013 (Page 18). So many
> > numbers bouncing around. Bounce, bounce,
> bounce.
> > A whole year of bounce, bounce, bounce.
>
> Why is it hilarious - it's just historical
> enrollment data posted on FCPS's web site. It
> shows that year-end enrollment at Clifton was down
> 7.8% in June 2010 compared to June 2000.
> Actually, the enrollment peaked in 2003-04 and has
> since declined 10.9%.
>
> Projections do bounce around. The latest CIP
> projected Clifton at 13% under-capacity by
> 2014-15. FCPS seems to change the methodologies
> for its projections every other day.

I agree with you about the projections which is why it is funny that in the FCPS Press Release regarding Votes to Close Clifton it listed a reason as "Enrollment is projected to decline from the current 369 students to a
projected 298 students in 2015" even though in their own documentation they presented only one year ago the Feasibility Report said Clifton would be OVERCAPACITY by 22 by 2013. Bounce. Bounce. Bounce.

CliftonDad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Projections do bounce around. The latest CIP
> > projected Clifton at 13% under-capacity by
> > 2014-15. FCPS seems to change the
> methodologies
> > for its projections every other day.
>
> I agree with you about the projections which is
> why it is funny that in the FCPS Press Release
> regarding Votes to Close Clifton it listed a
> reason as "Enrollment is projected to decline from
> the current 369 students to a
> projected 298 students in 2015" even though in
> their own documentation they presented only one
> year ago the Feasibility Report said Clifton would
> be OVERCAPACITY by 22 by 2013. Bounce. Bounce.
> Bounce.

It is amazing how they felt comfortable making such an important decisions on such unreliable data. Unless, of course, the decision was already made and they just needed to grasp at straws.

As far as historical data goes, in eight of the last eleven years, CES has been enrolled ABOVE capacity.

The kind people have a wonderful dream: Liz Bradsher on the guillotine

Because people like you make me feel so tired When will you die?

When will you die? When will you die?

When will you die? When will you die?

Because people like you make me feel so old inside, please die

And kind people do not shelter this dream, make it real

Make the dream real Make the dream real Make it real

Pep Song Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The kind people have a wonderful dream: Liz
> Bradsher on the guillotine
>
> Because people like you make me feel so tired
> When will you die?
>
> When will you die? When will you die?
>
> When will you die? When will you die?
>
> Because people like you make me feel so old
> inside, please die
>
> And kind people do not shelter this dream, make it
> real
>
> Make the dream real Make the dream real
> Make it real


Little Rocky Run Can’t Stand Liz Either
We ran to the bus tour to go and greet her
No New School!
No More Liz
Stay out of our School Biz

Get lost Liz!

It's a tough pill to swallow, but let's face it, Clifton needs to be closed. Capital funding is limited and it's for the greater good of the county that funds be used in a RD to alleviate overcrowding and consolidate small and run down Clifton ES.

The school sits on the crest of a large hill overlooking the Town of Clifton and most of its site cannot be developed. Staff said it would also be difficult to fit a staging area for a construction team on Clifton’s site, and the school’s renovation would necessitate the loss of trees and the leveling of a small hill at the back of the building.

The school is not on a normal sewage or water system, which also drives up construction and ongoing facility maintenance costs. Clifton is the only Fairfax school that uses well water, which not only complicates the installation of sprinklers but has also led to ongoing drinking water quality issues since the 1990s, said staff.

The school system has estimated that the cost closing Clifton, building a new school on the Liberty campus and constructing additions at other schools to be approximately $17.2 million overall. To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with capacity issues in western Fairfax would cost more, approximately $21.5 million, according to a presentation given to the School Board June 10.

Clifton residents said they would be happy with a scaled-back renovation plan, where not much more than the mechanical system would be replaced and a sprinkler system would be installed.

But if the School Board votes to keep Clifton open, school staff has advised that it proceed with a full-scale renovation, since several features of Clifton’s current building are outdated.

AND EVEN WITH a scaled-back renovation, Clifton’s renovation costs would still be relatively high on a per pupil basis since Clifton is one of the small schools in the county.

The average elementary school in Fairfax houses approximately 675 students and Clifton’s building can only fit 350 students, said Tistadt. Using housing data and local birth rate information, the school system has also projected that Clifton’s student body would decline to fewer than 300 students over the next four to five years.

"The overhead for an elementary school with 300 students is not dissimilar to the overhead of an elementary school with 600 students. You still need to have a principal, an assistant principal, a guidance counselor," said Tistadt.

From 2004 to 2009, Fairfax schools spent an average of $2,000 annually to bring bottled water to Clifton’s campus because it deemed the well water unsafe to drink, according to a report by a citizen advisory committee.

If experimentation with cheaper repairs to a school well fails, the school system could end up spending approximately $300,000 to fix Clifton’s water quality issues. FCPS would then have to spend approximately $65,000 per year on upkeep and monitoring of the well system, according to a citizen advisory report.

Wailing that you will do anything to keep your school open does not change the financial facts above. If money is available in Clifton to keep the ES open, use it to fund a Charter School!

Taxpayer extrodinaire Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a tough pill to swallow, but let's face it,
> Clifton needs to be closed. Capital funding is
> limited and it's for the greater good of the
> county that funds be used in a RD to alleviate
> overcrowding and consolidate small and run down
> Clifton ES.
>
> The school sits on the crest of a large hill
> overlooking the Town of Clifton and most of its
> site cannot be developed. Staff said it would also
> be difficult to fit a staging area for a
> construction team on Clifton’s site, and the
> school’s renovation would necessitate the loss of
> trees and the leveling of a small hill at the back
> of the building.
>
> The school is not on a normal sewage or water
> system, which also drives up construction and
> ongoing facility maintenance costs. Clifton is the
> only Fairfax school that uses well water, which
> not only complicates the installation of
> sprinklers but has also led to ongoing drinking
> water quality issues since the 1990s, said staff.
>
> The school system has estimated that the cost
> closing Clifton, building a new school on the
> Liberty campus and constructing additions at other
> schools to be approximately $17.2 million overall.
> To "fully" renovate Clifton and deal with capacity
> issues in western Fairfax would cost more,
> approximately $21.5 million, according to a
> presentation given to the School Board June 10.
>
> Clifton residents said they would be happy with a
> scaled-back renovation plan, where not much more
> than the mechanical system would be replaced and a
> sprinkler system would be installed.
>
> But if the School Board votes to keep Clifton
> open, school staff has advised that it proceed
> with a full-scale renovation, since several
> features of Clifton’s current building are
> outdated.
>
> AND EVEN WITH a scaled-back renovation, Clifton’s
> renovation costs would still be relatively high on
> a per pupil basis since Clifton is one of the
> small schools in the county.
>
> The average elementary school in Fairfax houses
> approximately 675 students and Clifton’s building
> can only fit 350 students, said Tistadt. Using
> housing data and local birth rate information, the
> school system has also projected that Clifton’s
> student body would decline to fewer than 300
> students over the next four to five years.
>
> "The overhead for an elementary school with 300
> students is not dissimilar to the overhead of an
> elementary school with 600 students. You still
> need to have a principal, an assistant principal,
> a guidance counselor," said Tistadt.
>
> From 2004 to 2009, Fairfax schools spent an
> average of $2,000 annually to bring bottled water
> to Clifton’s campus because it deemed the well
> water unsafe to drink, according to a report by a
> citizen advisory committee.
>
> If experimentation with cheaper repairs to a
> school well fails, the school system could end up
> spending approximately $300,000 to fix Clifton’s
> water quality issues. FCPS would then have to
> spend approximately $65,000 per year on upkeep and
> monitoring of the well system, according to a
> citizen advisory report.
>
> Wailing that you will do anything to keep your
> school open does not change the financial facts
> above. If money is available in Clifton to keep
> the ES open, use it to fund a Charter School!


Welcome to the list, Mr. Tisdadt.

FROM FAIRFAX COUNTY SUPERVISOR, SPRINGFIELD DISTRICT, PAT HERRITY:

SPECIAL EDITION OF THE HERRITY REPORT


Special Edition: School Board Votes to Close Clifton ES

• School Board Votes to Close Clifton ES
• My Thoughts and Why This Is Important To You
• No Compelling Case to Close Clifton ES
• What Really Happened?
• Unanswered Questions
• Thanks
• It's Not's Over
• My Testimony from the Public Hearing

School Board Votes to Close Clifton ES

In another demonstration of being out of touch with reality and common sense, the School Board voted last Thursday night to close Clifton Elementary School. I believe that their vote was misguided and wasteful. Judging from the tears on the faces of the children and many of the parents at the hearing and over the last several days, the impact of the decision will be devastating to the children, residents and businesses of Clifton.

The School Board did not have to close Clifton ES. As I describe more fully below, there was no compelling case to close Clifton Elementary School. In fact there was a compelling case to keep it open:
• It is one of Fairfax County's best performing elementary schools
• There were financial benefits if the school were kept open
• The issues with the well water were resolved in the 11th hour (although remaining the primary reason members cited for closing the school)
• The school is not in dire need of a renovation and the parents of Clifton ES lobbied to wait years for a renovation.
• There was a win-win resolution available that would benefit the entire county by accelerating renovations on other schools (including West Springfield High School) and leave the school open.

My Thoughts and Why it is Important to You

The bottom line is I feel that the Fairfax County Public School (FCPS) system made the decision to close Clifton ES well before they started the community engagement process, which was nothing more than a dog and pony show. Every point FCPS made in favor of closing the school, the Clifton community responded with facts and statistics showing that FCPS was either wrong or at a minimum using incomplete data. As a result, FCPS would simply change their justification for closing the school. But FCPS and the majority of the School Board refused to consider any of it because they were determined to close the school no matter what.

You may be asking yourself, "Why should I care about a school closing in Clifton?" You should care because if this ever happens in your community you need to know this is how FCPS currently operates. The decision is made before they actually study anything, let the facts be damned. I wish I could say this was an isolated incident, just a one time case of bad judgment, but unfortunately it is par for the course with FCPS.

On everything from the school budget, to their attempt to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a fancy new administrative building, to VGLA testing, to school renovations, FCPS staff and the School Board have shown they are unwilling to make sound decisions and engage their citizenry in a constructive, meaningful dialogue. It is absolutely time for the public to hold them to a much higher standard. I hope you will join me in that effort.

No Compelling Case to Close Clifton ES

Before the vote to close Clifton ES, one School Board Member challenged the other Board Members to cite the "compelling case to close Clifton ES". No School Board Member offered the compelling case, not even the maker of the motion to close the school, Springfield District Representative Liz Bradsher. The School Board Chair reminded her fellow Board Members that staff had given them the reasons and that they were on the web site. However, the web site offered no compelling case to close the school:

• Problems with the Well Water. Clifton ES is served by well water and some of the wells have had water quality issues in the past. Throughout this entire process FCPS staff cited the well water as the chief reason renovation and ongoing operating expenses at the school were high. Amazingly at the meeting they continued to reference these reasons even though the FCPS Chief Operating Officer (COO) Dean Tistadt released a report minutes before the meeting that said they had fixed the third well and that its flow was adequate and the water safe (pending the outcome of a final test and all indications are that this test will be positive as well). Pardon the pun but this part of the "compelling case" holds no water.

• Declining Enrollment. FCPS staff, under the direction of Mr. Tistadt, are projecting the enrollment of Clifton ES to decrease to 298 students by 2015 (it was at 369 this past year) and thus claimed it would not be cost effective to renovate Clifton ES on a per student basis. The problem with basing such an important decision on FCPS enrollment projections is that FCPS has a horrible track record of projecting enrollment. This is one of the main reasons the four School Board Members voted to delay for three years because they know firsthand how bad the staff is with projecting enrollment. One School Board Member actually pulled out some old documents and read off multiple years of projections for Colin Powell ES, noting how wrong FCPS was year after year. Staff had no response.

It was also very odd to see the School Board endorse Mr. Tisdadt's enrollment projections when they know firsthand how incredibly inaccurate staff was at projecting the enrollment of schools like South County Secondary School and Westfields High School. There are numerous other examples throughout the county of faulty school by school projections.

The Clifton community also presented a compelling case, citing actual housing transactions, that enrollment would not be declining. They also presented a compelling case for how the school could be expanded to 550 to help solve the capacity problems in this section of the county. See below for more detail on the irony of closing a school when you have capacity issues and need to build additional facilities.

In addition, national studies indicate that for learning - smaller is better and that the optimal size for elementary schools is between 300 - 500 leaving Clifton within that range. The outstanding performance of Clifton as well as other small schools throughout this country proves this point.

• Difficult/Expensive to Renovate. Another reason listed was that site constraints made the renovation of Clifton too expensive and difficult. This argument largely faded into the background as parents and the community argued for no renovation. Instead of just trying to address one or two of the areas where Clifton ES did not meet the education specification, FCPS inflated the cost of a renovation by calling for gold standard educational specs including a geothermal wall. The parents of Clifton did not want anything done to the school, it is ALREADY one of the highest performing schools in the county, but the School Board insisted on telling the parents "we know what's best for your children". The whole educational specs argument became so ridiculous during this process that one School Board Member said during the discussion on the motion to close the school that FCPS needs to take a serious look at what they require and determine if it is something they can afford going forward. Think about it, FCPS just closed one of the highest performing schools in the county because it was too expensive to implement gold standard educational specs that the parents did not want. How does that make any sense?

• Closing Clifton "Saves" Money. FCPS will try and tell you that they have saved the $11 million it would cost to renovate Clifton ES and that money will be put into the renovation queue accelerating all other projects. But that is only true because FCPS is using an accountant gimmick. There are still serious capacity issues in the Southwestern portion of the county (made even worse because they just closed a school in this section of the county!) that will have to be dealt with either by building a new school or by adding capacity to multiple existing elementary schools. This means that millions of dollars are still going to be spent on something other than the renovation queue. According to FCPS that money comes out of a "different pot" though. The bottom line is this does not save FCPS any money overall because they are closing one school to build additions or another new school. In fact the only real way to save money was to keep Clifton ES open with no or limited renovations. This would have put money back into the renovation queue and reduced the need for additional capacity to be built.

Unanswered Questions

I must point out that not all School Board Members fell for the ridiculous arguments of staff. Tina Hone argued strenuously on behalf of Clifton ES and made a motion to delay this decision for up to three years so FCPS could get answers to the many unanswered questions and continue to monitor the enrollment numbers. Sandy Evans, Jim Raney and Ilryong Moon all supported her. These four School Board members also did a great job of asking tough questions and poking holes in every one of the staff's reasons for closing the school. It was very refreshing to see these four School Board Members looking for real answers from FCPS staff and to see the staff unable to refute so many of their great points.

• Where Will the Children of Clifton ES Go to School? Unbelievably there is no answer. Staff lists 4 or 5 surrounding schools with some capacity but no answers. It appears a possibility the Clifton students and community will be divided up to multiple schools - at no time in the last 20 plus years has that happened in Fairfax County.

• Unanswered School Board Questions? In response to the final thirty-two questions about Clifton ES posed by School Board members, eight questions were answered by FCPS staff with "additional information pending" or "response pending". How the School Board could make such an important decision while so many of their own questions went unanswered by staff is unfathomable.

• How Will We Solve the Capacity Problems in Southwest County? It seems sheer lunacy to close a school when you have school capacity problems in that section of the county but that is what the School Board decided. To make matters worse they did it without the answer to how they will solve their capacity issues or what it will cost them. The original recommendation by school staff was to build a new school at the Liberty MS site and close Clifton ES. They changed the recommendation to just close Clifton ES because they could not show closing Clifton resulted in cost savings. Now we are left with the capacity issues.

• What Will They Do with the Building? Unbelievably again there is no answer. Initially the answer was to give it to the Town of Clifton but they have said they can't afford it. It likely will be returned to the county where it will become another liability for Fairfax County taxpayers.

What Really Happened?

Why did they vote to close the school? I am not 100% sure why FCPS staff was so adamant about closing this school. That is a question only FCPS staff and certain members of the School Board know the real answer to. I can tell you this though; I believe that it had nothing to do with "saving money" or getting to the best answer for the citizens of Clifton or the entire county. The most cost effective option was to defer renovation on Clifton ES indefinitely and put the money back into the renovation queue. But again, from the beginning this wasn't about saving money, it was about closing this particular school no matter what.

In the end a majority of School Board Members (specifically Liz Bradsher, Tessie Wilson, Stu Gibson, Dan Storck, Kathy Smith, Janie Strauss and Brad Center) refused to consider any options and blindly followed staff's lead. In addition, these School Board Members had the audacity to tell the parents of Clifton ES that they knew what was best for their children. They told the parents that it was not right for their children to continue to attend an un-renovated school even though the school is operating just fine today and is one of the highest performing elementary schools in the county.

> the school is operating just fine today and is one of the highest performing
> elementary schools in the county.


And you, Mr. Tisdadt, lousy speller extraordinaire, want to close it down for specious non-reasons which have all been thoroughly debunked in this thread.

Idiot.

Parent of 3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Idiot.

Racist

Must be that tainted drinking water you fuckers are sucking down.

Parent of 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Racist
>
> Must be that tainted drinking water you fuckers
> are sucking down.


False accusation of racism on the basis of no evidence whatsoever?

Yeah, that pretty much confirms Dean Tistadt dropped the speller "extrodinaire" post.

Dean Tistadt:

Publicly available information on the web at the Virginia State Board of Elections website provides names of contributors to Liz Bradsher’s campaign for School Board Representative. Some of the names on the list include:

David Albo/Delegate Springfield
David Albo/Albo & Oblong
Tom M. Davis/Congressman
Peter Dickinson/Capital Impact Strategies Lobbyist
Joseph Shirvan/NYMC Mortgage Broker
Lawrence Berberian/BF Saul Broker
Jose Cecin/BB&T Investment Banker
Robert Robertory/Northwestern Mutual Financial
Fuchs Jeff/Delta Consulting Group
Michael Powell
John Rowley III/Holland and Knight
William Bachman/Williams & Connolly
Anne Gallant
Joseph Christopher/Cisco Systems Director
Thomas Moore/Bacon & Thomas
Loiza Pieri
George Walters
Kevin Goodale/Impression Marketing


For more information, Virginia State Board of Elections website:
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/Campaign_Finance_Disclosure/View_Disclosure_Reports/CF_Reports_Results.asp?RepYearVal=2007&RDVal=&RSDVal=&CandVal=1271&OffVal=ALL&PtyVal=ALL&CommVal=&SUWVVal=CandidateView&SCHVal=A&PgNo=1&PgChg=P&tCNVal=&tCCVal=&tCSVal=&tCZVal=&tCOVal=&tCBDVal=&tCEDVal=&tCAFVal=&tCATVal=&tCCSOptVal=EqualTo&DownID=&RepID=(0)JANN15_08+(0)DECN06_07+(0)OCTN29_07+(0)OCTN16_07+(0)SEPN17_07+&SchID=A+B+D+

The answers to why Clifton was really closed? Look at the FFXU "New School Board Members" thread.

If gettng West Springfield High School bumped up the list is the reason Liz closed Clifton - even though she could have left it open and not renovated it, I wonder what school is next on the renovation queue? Who is going to get closed next? Who is going to get hurt next? Or is the next school going to be protected because it belongs to Stu or Kathy (or one of the others that voted yes to close Clifton)?

The most recent Fairfax Times lists the FCPS schools up for renovation (those in the design phase, and those ready for construction in the next 3-5 years). West Springfield HS does not appear on either list.


But Langley HS does. It's already up for construction that could start in 2014. Hasn't it already had a remodeling? And it gets another one....

I noticed several houses just put up for sale in Clifton in this week's Post. Prices may go down there---and the decline in school population may happen just because of this vote to close the school (and the school board will say they were right about declining enrollment of course). The school board might get what they really don't want---lower tax revenue from that area. Prices will go down there. The rest of the county will pay. This will happen wherever they dink around like this (closing schools or changing boundaries). The effects of this are widespread.

West Springfield is about to get on that list. They are going to forgo the design phase by saying that they will "design-build"---which is a concept that Liz Bradsher mentioned at a community meeting I attended once. Apparently it's sort of a design as you go thing that builders will do. Watch for this concept to be discussed (or not discussed and just voted on) at an upcoming SB meeting. They will say that (voila!) it saves money as well as speeds up the process. It's coming. And since they are saving money (sure) on the Clifton ES closing, this is so much saving we can only win.

I think Langley had an add on---but it's older section has not been renovated----right?

unintended consequences Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I noticed several houses just put up for sale in
> Clifton in this week's Post. Prices may go down
> there---and the decline in school population may
> happen just because of this vote to close the
> school (and the school board will say they were
> right about declining enrollment of course). The
> school board might get what they really don't
> want---lower tax revenue from that area. Prices
> will go down there. The rest of the county will
> pay. This will happen wherever they dink around
> like this (closing schools or changing
> boundaries). The effects of this are widespread.

Unfortunately, the School Board doesn't really care about the taxpayers and most parents in the area are too naive to know what is going on. So the School Board just threatens the parents that some program is going to get cut if they don't get more money and then tells them to go and parrot whatever they say to the County Supervisors. Then the County Supervisors look bad for raising taxes. It is a very dysfunctional system.

unintended consequences Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I noticed several houses just put up for sale in
> Clifton in this week's Post. Prices may go down
> there---and the decline in school population may
> happen just because of this vote to close the
> school (and the school board will say they were
> right about declining enrollment of course). The
> school board might get what they really don't
> want---lower tax revenue from that area. Prices
> will go down there. The rest of the county will
> pay. This will happen wherever they dink around
> like this (closing schools or changing
> boundaries). The effects of this are widespread.

Gee, I noticed several homes that just went up for sale in Great Falls this week. Did Langley just get closed without my noticing it?

What a straw-man argument you've made. I wouldn't discount entirely the possibility that some might cut off their nose to spite their faces, but seriously...

Good comment. This gets to the heart of the problem. I'm from a northern state and the system is much different there. The county and the school district are completely separate entities (and the school district receives the property taxes so the school board has to deal with both taxing and spending---not just spending---they set the property tax rate and collect it). It's a much more direct system. They ask the taxpayers for the money directly (no going through another governmental layer). Too bad people are naive about how the system works. Maybe if there are few more moves like this Clifton one, people will get a bit smarter.

unintended consequences Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good comment. This gets to the heart of the
> problem. I'm from a northern state and the system
> is much different there. The county and the
> school district are completely separate entities
> (and the school district receives the property
> taxes so the school board has to deal with both
> taxing and spending---not just spending---they set
> the property tax rate and collect it). It's a
> much more direct system. They ask the taxpayers
> for the money directly (no going through another
> governmental layer). Too bad people are naive
> about how the system works. Maybe if there are
> few more moves like this Clifton one, people will
> get a bit smarter.


Personally, I wouldn't care if they went back to having an appointed Board. The School Board (or at least most of them) disregard impacts on businesses and residents and that is disruptive to the Fairfax County economy as a whole.

I was thinking this same thing---about going back to an appointed board. This "elected" SB is not serving the people anyway.

Skeptic wrote:

Gee, I noticed several homes that just went up for sale in Great Falls this week. Did Langley just get closed without my noticing it?

What a straw-man argument you've made. I wouldn't discount entirely the possibility that some might cut off their nose to spite their faces, but seriously...




you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing to do with the school closing announcement---however, would you move in with preschool or elementary aged children if you didn't know what elementary school they may be going to? Or, for that matter, a boundary study coming up? Might not be a "fun" time. It won't help the seller.

re Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Skeptic wrote:
>
> Gee, I noticed several homes that just went up for
> sale in Great Falls this week. Did Langley just
> get closed without my noticing it?
>
> What a straw-man argument you've made. I wouldn't
> discount entirely the possibility that some might
> cut off their nose to spite their faces, but
> seriously...
>
>
>
>
> you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing to
> do with the school closing announcement---however,
> would you move in with preschool or elementary
> aged children if you didn't know what elementary
> school they may be going to? Or, for that matter,
> a boundary study coming up? Might not be a "fun"
> time. It won't help the seller.

Who wants to be a teacher at a school that may only have a year left? The Principal decided to resign this year too (consequence? think not). The Board didn't even care enough about the teachers to do a boundary study in advance. Of course, they haven't cared about the teachers in years and most of the teachers just hide in the quiet in desperate fear for their jobs. It's sort of like the mafia where there is a ruling power and everyone is in fear of speaking up. Many of those teachers have been friends for many years and now they are going to be split up and thrown to the wind too. How is that thanks for a job well done! There is lack of trust in the administration now too so any promises they make to try and sooth the fears are moot. Everything about his decision was wrong.

teach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> re Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Skeptic wrote:
> >
> > Gee, I noticed several homes that just went up
> for
> > sale in Great Falls this week. Did Langley just
> > get closed without my noticing it?
> >
> > What a straw-man argument you've made. I
> wouldn't
> > discount entirely the possibility that some
> might
> > cut off their nose to spite their faces, but
> > seriously...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing
> to
> > do with the school closing
> announcement---however,
> > would you move in with preschool or elementary
> > aged children if you didn't know what
> elementary
> > school they may be going to? Or, for that
> matter,
> > a boundary study coming up? Might not be a
> "fun"
> > time. It won't help the seller.
>
> Who wants to be a teacher at a school that may
> only have a year left? The Principal decided to
> resign this year too (consequence? think not).
> The Board didn't even care enough about the
> teachers to do a boundary study in advance. Of
> course, they haven't cared about the teachers in
> years and most of the teachers just hide in the
> quiet in desperate fear for their jobs. It's sort
> of like the mafia where there is a ruling power
> and everyone is in fear of speaking up. Many of
> those teachers have been friends for many years
> and now they are going to be split up and thrown
> to the wind too. How is that thanks for a job
> well done! There is lack of trust in the
> administration now too so any promises they make
> to try and sooth the fears are moot. Everything
> about his decision was wrong.

Ok, so I meant to say coincidence, think not. Also meant to say Everything about this decision was wrong. This is a painful subject which is only made worse by the fact that there are those people out there that seem to be relishing from watching anyone associated with this school suffer. No idea why.

re Wrote:
> you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing to
> do with the school closing announcement---however,
> would you move in with preschool or elementary
> aged children if you didn't know what elementary
> school they may be going to? Or, for that matter,
> a boundary study coming up? Might not be a "fun"
> time. It won't help the seller.

People would generally prefer the certainty of knowing what schools their kids will attend. But there are going to be big boundary studies in both the southwestern part of the county and the Annandale area regardless of whether Clifton is closed or kept open and, yes, people will continue to move in and out of those areas.

Skeptic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> re Wrote:
> > you're probably right---I'm sure it has nothing
> to
> > do with the school closing
> announcement---however,
> > would you move in with preschool or elementary
> > aged children if you didn't know what
> elementary
> > school they may be going to? Or, for that
> matter,
> > a boundary study coming up? Might not be a
> "fun"
> > time. It won't help the seller.
>
> People would generally prefer the certainty of
> knowing what schools their kids will attend. But
> there are going to be big boundary studies in both
> the southwestern part of the county and the
> Annandale area regardless of whether Clifton is
> closed or kept open and, yes, people will continue
> to move in and out of those areas.

And eventually out of Fairfax County entirely once the economy improves. People move here for the schools. They buy their homes based on which school it is associated with. The schools are not all of the same quality despite what Mrs. Bradsher likes to tell people (but that is data she would rather NOT look at). All you have to do is look at the school scores. This type of ongoing instability eventually drives people away. FCPS isn't what it used to be either. They have overused VGLA tests to prop up the scores but eventually it will all surface.

CliftonParent Wrote:
> And eventually out of Fairfax County entirely once
> the economy improves. People move here for the
> schools. They buy their homes based on which
> school it is associated with. The schools are
> not all of the same quality despite what Mrs.
> Bradsher likes to tell people (but that is data
> she would rather NOT look at). All you have to do
> is look at the school scores. This type of ongoing
> instability eventually drives people away. FCPS
> isn't what it used to be either. They have
> overused VGLA tests to prop up the scores but
> eventually it will all surface.

Right. Then again, it may be that jobs and safety matter, too. There seem to be more jobs in the DC area right now than just about anywhere else. So where do all these disaffected parents go other than Fairfax? Not too many people will leave Fairfax for Prince William just because schools get redistricted every now and then. If anything, it seems like there are more new schools (Coates, Laurel Hill, South County Middle) being opened than old ones being closed.

The test scores probably tell you more about the overall demographics of the students at a school than what they do about the quality of the teaching or the performance of an individual student.

You may have a very strong case than Clifton shouldn't be closed. But whiny posts that the world will come to an end if your child ends up having to attend another high-performing school doesn't quite cut it.

You are assuming that Fairfax County schools are all high-performing. This is not true. Several have had to offer the tutoring and busing options under NCLB because they did not meet AYP for 3 years. There is a danger that more could go this route.

Other school systems besides Prince William: Loudoun, Montgomery, Falls Church City, Arlington, Howard County (MD). All of those are very good school systems.

more info Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are assuming that Fairfax County schools are
> all high-performing. This is not true. Several
> have had to offer the tutoring and busing options
> under NCLB because they did not meet AYP for 3
> years. There is a danger that more could go this
> route.
>
> Other school systems besides Prince William:
> Loudoun, Montgomery, Falls Church City, Arlington,
> Howard County (MD). All of those are very good
> school systems.

I didn't say all the schools in the county were "high-performing," but then again you haven't identified which school near Clifton hasn't met AYP for 3 years in a row, have you?

Yes, there are other good school systems besides Fairfax. If you think Falls Church City is big enough to accommodate many new residents, though, or that people working in the DC area will flock to Howard County to avoid school redistrictings in Fairfax, you're surely mistaken. Loudoun has had a lot of redistrictings in recent years as well. And I'm sure the Clifton crowd will feel right at home on the .10 acre lots in Arlington.

If anything, people are continuing to flock to Fairfax; one recent report estimated 50,000 new residents this year alone. That's probably a far stronger argument to keep Clifton open than the suggestion that it's necessary to keep people from leaving the county in droves.

This was from a previous post:

real deal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't wait to see which elementary schools these
> kids get bused into (or what the boundary changes
> are when these kids get displaced and other high
> scoring kids further out get bused to new
> elementary schools---sort of a "pinball effect").
> The test scores for Clifton kids are probably the
> highest in the county (if not close to highest).
> These kids (or kids affected by these kids'
> displacements) will be an asset to any school that
> is struggling to make AYP or close to losing AYP
> (which may be the case at some). This closing has
> a lot to do with other things that are not being
> stated (money is definitely not the
> issue---especially given that parents were willing
> to go without renovation and "gold standard"
> items). It's about saving the "behinds" of the
> board who don't want to have "failing schools" on
> their watches. Think about how much the whole
> boundary study is going to cost (nobody is talking
> about that).
>
For a school to make AYP, it must meet or exceed achievement benchmarks in English and mathematics. Here are where the facts are on all the schools included in the Southwestern Regional Planning study.
[p1pe.doe.virginia.gov]

These are the schools out of that study that have problems:

Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2009-2010.
London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2008-2009 and 2009-2010
Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in 2009-2010 but failed AYP the two prior years.
Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP in 2009-2010.

If schools continue to fail AYP, eventually FCPS has to put forth a restructuring plan.

By closing Clifton, they will create overcrowding where there was supposedly none and we have seen how dependable the numbers are. The Springfield School Board Member, Liz Bradsher, put forth the Amendment to close Clifton Elementary. She was also the main driver to build South County Middle. Do you think she won’t come back again to push for a new school at Liberty Middle if she gets re-elected or even before then? Do you think that the closure of Clifton might just have been in the grand scale of things to justify building a new school at Liberty Middle and FORCE Union Mill into eventual acceptance…..



Here is some data on AYP. They have not failed 3 years in a row yet---but a couple are close to it.

People won't leave in droves---just the people you would prefer to stay are the ones who will leave. Others will come of course. Same thing for teachers.

from before on this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> These are the schools out of that study that have
> problems:
>
> Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in
> 2009-2010.
> London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in 2008-2009
> and 2009-2010
> Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in 2009-2010
> but failed AYP the two prior years.
> Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP in
> 2009-2010.
>
> If schools continue to fail AYP, eventually FCPS
> has to put forth a restructuring plan.
>
> By closing Clifton, they will create overcrowding
> where there was supposedly none and we have seen
> how dependable the numbers are. The Springfield
> School Board Member, Liz Bradsher, put forth the
> Amendment to close Clifton Elementary. She was
> also the main driver to build South County Middle.
> Do you think she won’t come back again to push for
> a new school at Liberty Middle if she gets
> re-elected or even before then? Do you think that
> the closure of Clifton might just have been in the
> grand scale of things to justify building a new
> school at Liberty Middle and FORCE Union Mill into
> eventual acceptance…..
>

> Here is some data on AYP. They have not failed 3
> years in a row yet---but a couple are close to it.

The failure of a school to make AYP periodically is not always a huge deal. Longfellow recently failed to make AYP, and it is typically one of the top two middle schools sending students to Jefferson (the other is Carson in Herndon). In any event, none of the schools you mentioned have a boundary contiguous to Clifton ES. Does anyone really think Clifton ES students will get sent to Bull Run? On the other hand, all of the schools whose boundaries share a border with the Clifton ES attendance area made AYP each of the past three years.

Of course, if a school not making AYP is such a cause for alarm, what are you doing still living in Clifton? Robinson - the school that Clifton ES students go on to attend - did not make AYP in 2008-09.

As to your other question, nothing that Liz Bradsher might do would surprise me.

from before on this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People won't leave in droves---just the people you
> would prefer to stay are the ones who will leave.
> Others will come of course. Same thing for
> teachers.

I really don't think that will happen but, if it does, I won't lose too much sleep over it.

http://www.davealbo.org/dave-on-the-issues/renovatingbuilding-schools

"Dave’s “Albo-Rust Public/Private School Construction Plan” created a new way to use private companies and private sector capital to build schools. Combined with local parents’ land swap idea, we built SCSS in half the time originally planned and at two-thirds the cost.

West Springfield High School
As a WSHS graduate, this issue is close to Dave’s heart. Dave Albo’s “Albo-Rust Public/Private School Construction Plan” built South County Secondary. Dave’s plan renovates WSHS next year using this proven successful method."

SO - what's the Dave secret? Is it a secret Dave/Liz pact? If just Public/Private School Construction Plan - WHY NOT DO SAME FOR CLIFTON?
If Dave's RENOVATING WSHS NEXT YEAR - WHY DOWS WSHS NEED TO MOVE UP IN THE QUEUE?
Why can't the Wonder Twins rescue any other school other than WSHS?
Attachments:

Liz has to go. She is evil and does not care about one student in FFC.

re renovation list Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> West Springfield is about to get on that list.
> They are going to forgo the design phase by saying
> that they will "design-build"---which is a concept
> that Liz Bradsher mentioned at a community meeting
> I attended once. Apparently it's sort of a design
> as you go thing that builders will do. Watch for
> this concept to be discussed (or not discussed and
> just voted on) at an upcoming SB meeting. They
> will say that (voila!) it saves money as well as
> speeds up the process. It's coming. And since
> they are saving money (sure) on the Clifton ES
> closing, this is so much saving we can only win.


LOL. If people are pissed now, wait until they do a "design/build" at WSHS. Speaking from experience - that does NOT save money or time, especially when dealing with a bureaucracy like a school board. Basically in a nutshell you have a general concept on what improvements you're going to make and a general sense of cost. And all throughout the process, things get redesigned, reformulated, taken out of the scope, put into the scope, etc., etc. In the end, expect to pay more than what was budgeted. Why? Because you're essentially flying by the seat of your pants and it goes like this:

School board (or whoever is managing the project): "hey, this seem like a good idea, how much will it cost?"
General Contractor: About $50,000.
School Board: Do it.
Contractor: Well, if we do it that way, it will affect the __________ that we put in last week that you asked for that cost $10,000. We'd have to rip it out.
School Board: Just do it, it's a better concept.

OR

School Board: I'm thinking we should go ahead and remove ______________
Contractor: We can, but since we've already installed ______________, it will make that much more difficult in terms of time and money. We should have done it before we did ______________.
School Board: Hmmm......let's go ahead. It's worth it.

Repeat that 2,000 times and it adds up. Then as the project comes to a close, there's no money left and things get half assed.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

How do you know there were studies done while the Liberty Middle school site was being constructed?

Skeptic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> from before on this Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > These are the schools out of that study that
> have
> > problems:
> >
> > Bull Run Elementary (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in
> > 2009-2010.
> > London Town (CENTREVILLE) failed AYP in
> 2008-2009
> > and 2009-2010
> > Centre Ridge (CENTREVILLE) made AYP in
> 2009-2010
> > but failed AYP the two prior years.
> > Silverbrook (Fairfax Station) did not make AYP
> in
> > 2009-2010.
> >
> > If schools continue to fail AYP, eventually
> FCPS
> > has to put forth a restructuring plan.
> >
> > By closing Clifton, they will create
> overcrowding
> > where there was supposedly none and we have
> seen
> > how dependable the numbers are. The Springfield
> > School Board Member, Liz Bradsher, put forth
> the
> > Amendment to close Clifton Elementary. She was
> > also the main driver to build South County
> Middle.
> > Do you think she won’t come back again to push
> for
> > a new school at Liberty Middle if she gets
> > re-elected or even before then? Do you think
> that
> > the closure of Clifton might just have been in
> the
> > grand scale of things to justify building a new
> > school at Liberty Middle and FORCE Union Mill
> into
> > eventual acceptance…..
> >
>
> > Here is some data on AYP. They have not failed
> 3
> > years in a row yet---but a couple are close to
> it.
>
> The failure of a school to make AYP periodically
> is not always a huge deal. Longfellow recently
> failed to make AYP, and it is typically one of the
> top two middle schools sending students to
> Jefferson (the other is Carson in Herndon). In
> any event, none of the schools you mentioned have
> a boundary contiguous to Clifton ES. Does anyone
> really think Clifton ES students will get sent to
> Bull Run? On the other hand, all of the schools
> whose boundaries share a border with the Clifton
> ES attendance area made AYP each of the past three
> years.
>
> Of course, if a school not making AYP is such a
> cause for alarm, what are you doing still living
> in Clifton? Robinson - the school that Clifton ES
> students go on to attend - did not make AYP in
> 2008-09.
>
> As to your other question, nothing that Liz
> Bradsher might do would surprise me.


Silverbrook shares borders with Clifton and failed AYP. Fairview has some low performance scores as well. If a school is showing trouble now, it is actually far worse than it appears on the surface because they have been using VGLA to prop scores up. Union Mill folks are the ones that should be most concerned with the schools that are failing in Centreville because they are much closer. The closing of Clifton was a temporary shift to move the kids into other schools to create more overcrowding and back everyone into a corner to build the new school at Liberty Middle. Union Mill is going to get screwed but it may not come up again until after the election next year. If they vote for Liz again, they are fools. The writing is on the wall.