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armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: native1963 ()
Date: December 26, 2006 12:20PM

I saw a armed security person at Glory Day's in Burke. That's it for me, I have not and never will patronize an establishment that needs an armed guard. They serve alcohol (massive quanties) and alcohol and guns don't mix. By the way it was a glock. How many people can be killed with one bullet fired from this type weapon? I used to take my kids there never again, my madcap 4 year old could unholster it in a second and accidentally kill someone. I wish it were a bad dream but I'm still in Fairfax County, Virginia, one of the prestigious areas of the country, so it is touted.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Date: December 26, 2006 02:29PM

A Glock 17 which is the oldest and one of the most popular models of Glock's line of products has a barel lengths of 4.5". Assuming he was packing jacketed hollow points, which would be a good assumption based on the fact that he's working in a densly packed environment, and assuming that he's not hot loading them himself because most people who load their own ammo dont work as security guards, the most he could get out of a 127 grain JHP would be around 1150 to 1250 fps. Now thats a lot of variables but at that velocity you're looking at (approximately) around 12" penetration max in soft body tissue with less than 0.5" expansion. PROBABLY less than 10" if the intended target is made out of bones and tissue and if expansion is closer to 0.6" which would be more common with the name brand loads like Winchester, Remmington, Federal, and CCI-Speer. Feel free to check all these numbers on teh internets, I'm estimating here.

So, to answer your question, native1963, one bullet might be able to cause enough damage to vital organs in center mass of an average adult human male at close range to cause death after a few minutes without medical attention. It is unlikely that your average security guard is packing +P loads or has anything hand loaded hotter than what you buy off the shelf at your local gun store.

To address your other concerns, I doubt that your 4 year old has not only the dexterity but also the strength of hands to unholster the weapon of an armed guard. But you are right. Alcohol and guns absolutely dont mix. That is why it is illegal for any citizens of Fairfax to carry (either openly or concealed) firearms inside any place of business that serves alcohol. If you're so concerned about being shot by a security guard, then I dont know what the heck you are doing but stop doing it. And if you are worried that your child has the urge to try to take loaded guns away from people, then maybe you should re-evaluate the way you are raising your kids. It's not nice to steal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2006 03:30PM by boristhebulletdodger.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: mad max, JD ()
Date: December 26, 2006 03:03PM

You can carry openly in places that serve alcohol. Do some research, as it appears you did earlier in your post. Don't spread misinformation.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Date: December 26, 2006 03:29PM

You're right, I went to http://www.packing.org/state/virginia/ and re-checked.
I think I'm confusing bars with churches... though I suppose the two have a lot in common depending on your point of view ;)
Its been a while since I took the class for my concealed carry permit. My instructor ingrained it into all of our heads that carrying while intoxicated is about the dumbest thing one can do. So I'd never drink while packing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2006 03:35PM by boristhebulletdodger.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 26, 2006 03:43PM

Has the media really demonized guns so much that even idiot posters think that a Glock handgun is a bazooka? It's a handgun!

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Date: December 26, 2006 04:25PM

And I'm curious to know how they found out it was a Glock. The trademark Glock insignia is usually on the left hand side of the grip. If the guard was right-handed as 85% of us are, they would have just seen a black polymer handgun on his belt. Perhaps they knew enough to recognize the tell-tale shape of the squared off slide and rear sight?

At the same time, I can understand why people would feel a certain amount of unrest taking their children to a steakhouse/bar that has armed guards. I admit I'd feel a little nervous too if I was in that situation. But I probably wont be taking my kids to many bars when they're 4. I'd also teach them not only how to recognize a gun, but how to disassemble it, clean it, and sight it in. I have no problem with people not eating at restraunts where they dont feel safe. But to be honest, if I was in a restraunt where everyone had a gun on them, I'd feel pretty safe... as long as they're not drinking.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: wingman ()
Date: December 26, 2006 06:03PM

Hey man. I am down with the armed gaurds. I like my wings protected.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: December 26, 2006 08:53PM

If I had enough money I would get a desert eagle .50 cal handgun and strap that on my side just to see the look on people's faces. And yes a shot from any glock can kill you. I have open carried a few times around here (with a 9mm) but never in a drinking establishment. It is up to the owner's discretion if they allow you to and you cannot be drunk and in possession of a firearm. If I was a real crazy motherfucker I would open carry in Rosslyn or on the public streets right around the pentagon. Would probably get stopped and id checked but wouldn't be breaking any laws.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/26/2006 08:54PM by Mofo.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: ? ()
Date: December 26, 2006 08:54PM

Dont be bitch about guns

I love Guns

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 26, 2006 11:57PM

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And yes a shot
> from any glock can kill you.

But a shot from any 9mm handgun could kill you. No magic in the "Glock" name.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: WashingToneLocian ()
Date: December 27, 2006 12:27AM

Remember what the cop at IHOP did with some Maple Syrup in him? Imagine what he would have done with a couple of Lone Stars!

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 27, 2006 12:43AM

GLOCK... get lucky on careless kills?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: December 27, 2006 01:50AM

native1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many people can be killed with one
> bullet fired from this type weapon?


one.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: native1963 ()
Date: December 27, 2006 10:25AM

I'm not so concerned about intentionally being shot, but the possibility of myself or an innocent bystander being unintentionally shot. The reference to my child unholstering the weapon was made to show how inappropriate it is to have armed persons in this establishment.I will suggest that next year's end of the season soccer party be held some where else, even though they like the kid's video arcade and party room.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: December 27, 2006 11:11AM

native1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not so concerned about intentionally being
> shot, but the possibility of myself or an innocent
> bystander being unintentionally shot. The
> reference to my child unholstering the weapon was
> made to show how inappropriate it is to have armed
> persons in this establishment.


you should have posted as naive1963 because a) holsters are button closed and b) there are safeties on guns. if anyone is getting shot, it's going to be by an overzealous cop that is itching to blast anyone and everyone.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: 495 ()
Date: December 27, 2006 12:01PM

nothing like spraying a few rounds as people are tucking into their buffalo wings

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 27, 2006 02:58PM

If the bar prohibits guns inside then you cannot bring one in regardless of a permit, alcohol or not, concealed or not. It is the owners property, he can prohibit guns just like many stores and banks do.

Havent been to glory days in a few weeks but check the front door and see if they have one of those international stickers of a gun with a red line through it. Guess they hired a private guard after the guy showed up dead there a week or two ago.

As far as carrying the gun out in the open that is just asking for trouble. You can be sure someone will call 911 and the cops will bust ass getting there. Once there they are going to yell out at you and when you quickly turn that will be all the excuse they need to blast you. Sure it isnt fair but it is life.
Anyone disagree on this point?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 27, 2006 03:31PM

The uneducated unfortunately do often call the police or a manager when they see someone open carrying in any restaurant. The idiot 911 operators then send the police there and cause an unnecessary scene. Then again there was a series of incidents like this where people totally innocently open-carrying in a Starbucks in
NoVA was hassled by cops because some idiot bimbo soccer mom called 911 and said a man with a gun was in the shop.

This is one of the reasons why Virginia needs to stop being one of the few states with concealed carry permits to prohibit concealed carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Hopefully 911 operator training has gotten a little better, like asking callers if the person is holding the gun in his/her hand or if it is holstered, have they done anything threatening others, etc.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: IM ()
Date: December 27, 2006 04:10PM

I am amazed that an obvious effort to increase the safety of the public at a popular eatery had led to such a spirited debate.

And Gravis, where in the world do you get your info? Its funny how when it comes to guns so many people consider themselves experts. Not all holsters are "button closed" as you put it, and the glock does NOT have an external safety (if that is in fact the firearm the rent-a-cop is carrying).

As for boycotting the restaurant because of the possibility of being unintentionally shot, good lord, lets peition them to get rid of steak knives too. Your kid might accidentally cut someone.

Fear not fine citizenry, Im sure the expense of the armed guard will not be budgeted after the initial media wake of the homicide. Unfortunately the knee jerk reaction to hire one seems to have caused more problems.

Glory Days itself is not a "dangerous" place. The homicide itself was a targeted crime, not a random act of violence. The restaurant itself had nothing to do with it. Could have happened anywhere (bank, neighborhood or even a church parking lot). I bet you a bucket of wings that the guard is gone by valentines day. Any takers?

And pgens...not all Fairfax County residents are right-to-bear-arms ideologs such as yourself. The vast majority of the general public is not aware that open carry is legal. In todays society it is human nature to be somewhat alarmed by someone walking around with a .44 mag on their hip because it is not common. Just because you CAN do something does not necessarily make doing it prudent. I can slam my hand in a car door, but its not necessarily the wisest thing to do (although I find it soothing after reading some of your posts).

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 27, 2006 04:36PM

IM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And pgens...not all Fairfax County residents are
> right-to-bear-arms ideologs such as yourself. The
> vast majority of the general public is not aware
> that open carry is legal. In todays society it is
> human nature to be somewhat alarmed by someone
> walking around with a .44 mag on their hip because
> it is not common. Just because you CAN do
> something does not necessarily make doing it
> prudent. I can slam my hand in a car door, but
> its not necessarily the wisest thing to do

I guess my point didn't get across. I'm not blaming people for being ignorant... most people are on this issue. However the 911 operators and law enforcement should NOT be, and therefore need to tell people that call that if someone isn't being threatening then they aren't sending officers over to embarrass anyone.

Your worries are PRECISELY why allowing concealed carry in restaurants can be beneficial. It's still illegal to carry and drink alcohol so nothing changes there. It's just sad that the law-abiding person gets the cops called on them for peacefully eating and carrying their firearm in a restaurant according to the law, while the gang-banger felon one table over cares less about weapons laws and can have several hidden on his person and no one would be the wiser. He eats and laughs while the good guy gets publicly embarrassed for obeying the law.


I guess slamming your hand in a car door is your right, however it isn't outlined in the Bill of Rights like my "ideologue" second amendment right is. It's amazing that obeying the law gets criticism... I guess you don't see it my way that calling the police to report someone committing a legal act with a firearm is constitutionally the same as someone calling the police to report a message or political opinion on a t-shirt they don't like. They are both next-door in the Constitution. I understand the feelings of those that don't agree, just as there are those that disagree with free speech and freedom of religion, but luckily for the rest of us it is the law of the land.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 27, 2006 06:59PM

I dont think the 911 operators have a choice in the matter. Caller: There is a strange guy carrying a rifle and handguns heading for a day care center. Call taker: Nothing illegal about that maam, call us back when he starts shooting.

You have to know the cops are going to err on the side of caution. They arent going to bet their lives you are a normal person. If they follow their training they are going to confront you from behind cover. If you make a sudden move, which most people will do when someone shouts at them, they are most likely going to shoot. I am not taking sides just pointing out the truth.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Economist ()
Date: December 27, 2006 07:12PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> You have to know the cops are going to err on the
> side of caution. They arent going to bet their
> lives you are a normal person. If they follow
> their training they are going to confront you from
> behind cover. If you make a sudden move, which
> most people will do when someone shouts at them,
> they are most likely going to shoot. I am not
> taking sides just pointing out the truth.


how are cops gonna err on the side of caution. someone ISN'T BREAKING THE LAW OR THREATENING ANYONE BY OPENLY CARRYING A HANDGUN. SHOULDN'T THEIR TRAINING INCLUDE THE CONSTITUTION?????????

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Economist ()
Date: December 27, 2006 07:16PM

> IM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And pgens...not all Fairfax County residents
> are
> > right-to-bear-arms ideologs such as yourself.
> The
> > vast majority of the general public is not
> aware
> > that open carry is legal. In todays society it
> is
> > human nature to be somewhat alarmed by someone
> > walking around with a .44 mag on their hip
> because
> > it is not common. Just because you CAN do
> > something does not necessarily make doing it
> > prudent. I can slam my hand in a car door, but
> > its not necessarily the wisest thing to do


You know what's funny though, just because the vast majority is 'unaware' or should I say ignorant doesn't take away my right to do something. So they can shove their false sense of security up their ass.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 27, 2006 07:56PM

Message went right over your head. I pointed out the cops have to show up they cant ignore a call.
You are exiting a restaurant, the cop calls out to you and you turn too quickly or your hand is near your gun. He opens fire. You are 100% right and 100% dead.

I dont want to sit in a restaurant with a guy carrying a gun, only my choice. The guy may or may not have any training with the weapon. You dont need a permit therefore you arent required to have any training. He may never have even fired a gun. His knowledge of guns came from watching tv cop shows.

You can be sure of one thing as long as people want to openly carry a gun around, more places of business will prohibit you from coming in with one concealed or not. Only an idiot would allow a customer in a bar with a gun on. It is just asking for trouble and you can be sure when it starts since the bar has the big money they will be the ones being sued regardless of who is at fault.

Can I ask the economist what happens when a drunk customer comes up to you and you have to tell him you arent a cop just a guy who likes to carry a gun around? The guy continues to hassle and threaten you. He hasnt touched you and he doesnt have a weapon. What is your plan?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 27, 2006 08:37PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont think the 911 operators have a choice in
> the matter. Caller: There is a strange guy
> carrying a rifle and handguns heading for a day
> care center. Call taker: Nothing illegal about
> that maam, call us back when he starts shooting.

Your example is clearly beyond what we are discussing. A person eating peacefully at a restaurant or buying coffee at starbucks with a handgun in a holster is clearly not justification for sending officers. In your example, someone is hand-carrying (that's called brandishment) weapons in a suspicious way. If you are going to defend the harassment of citizens conducting _legal activities_ then do it with a clear, pertinent example.

In the case of starbucks or a restaurant, an officer could call the store's phone and ask the manager if everything is okay. If the manager says no one is waving a gun around making threats then the police _have_ done their duty and erred on the side of caution. Surrounding a person's table and escorting them out of a restaurant to question them is public harassment. Meeting a guy outside starbucks, taking his holstered gun and driving him to a police station is harassment.


> The guy may or may not have any training with the weapon.
> You dont need a permit therefore you arent required to have
> any training.

Then 1) Take action in favor of allowing concealed carry in restaurants because to get a concealed carry permit you need to show evidence of training, and 2) kindly ask owners of the restaurants you frequent if they have a no-guns policy and tell them to put a sign up at the door if they do. The owners will either do it or not do it, and you can base your decision to go there on that.

And while you are at it, go ahead and bank with BB&T or Wachovia. Both of those banks have a no-guns policy which is why YOU should go there and why I DON'T go there. They are also two of the most-frequently robbed banks. WONDER WHY? For the same reason it is safer and easier to punch an elderly lady than it is to punch a linebacker!


> what happens when a drunk customer comes up to you and you
> have to tell him you arent a cop just a guy who likes to
> carry a gun around? The guy continues to hassle and
> threaten you. He hasnt touched you and he doesnt have a
> weapon. What is your plan?

Leave, complain to a manager or call the police, just like if a drunk customer walked up to you and didn't like the color of your shirt. What's the point here?


Look... if you aren't trolling but instead really feel unsafe, then go to SE DC for your dining pleasure. ALL HANDGUNS ARE ILLEGAL THERE. If you REALLY feel safer eating at a restaurant in SE DC than eating at Fuddruckers in Fairfax City because someone in Fudds may be eating their burger while wearing a sidearm, then go right ahead and eat in SE DC. But let me eat my burger in peace in the safety of Fudds, thanks. By the way, I'd bet most people open-carrying in restaurants are permit carriers (i.e. trained) anyway, as permit holders are usually the ones who happen to be educated about open carry and the restaurant ban in the first place. I believe your worry is misplaced, but if you truly believe you are in danger then go to SE DC where you can feel absolutely safe with their handgun ban.

Finally, people often ask why people just don't leave weapons in their car. I have a personal example of why... I stored my handgun in my locked glove compartment in my SUV in the parking lot of Fair Oaks Mall one evening while visiting Bennigan's. I returned to find my gas cap loose, a quarter of the gas emptied, and screwdriver marks near the doors. Now, if they had gotten into the vehicle and gotten the glove box open, you'd have a handgun in the hands of a criminal rather than in the hands of a clean-record, trained permit-holder guy like me. Which would you prefer? If I didn't have to handle the handgun to store it in the box, as well as handle it to get it out, I am saving two firearm handling steps AND keeping it in a safe place while in the restaurant if the restaurant ban goes away. Why isn't that better? Guns stay safer, people who are nervous don't see any guns and aren't nervous. Sounds good to me! "But then I have to worry that everyone has guns hidden from me!" But you ALREADY have that problem with the BAD GUYS who are eating there.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2006 08:45PM by pgens.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 27, 2006 09:19PM

Wachovia and BBT are most robbed because they have the most branches.

How about I buy a rifle with a 30 round magazine and carry a couple of extra mags in a pouch. The rifle is over my shoulder on a sling, still breaking no laws. I dont threaten anyone nor do I take the rifle off my shoulder. Still breaking no laws I know of. To apply brandishing laws you have to put a person in fear for their life.

I can see the cops calling the manager and asking "We hear you have a guy inside with a rifle and lots of extra ammo, how about doing our job and going to see if this guy is sane. If we hear a burst of fire we will know things went to shit."

"Surrounding a person's table and escorting them out of a restaurant to question them is public harassment. Meeting a guy outside starbucks, taking his holstered gun and driving him to a police station is harassment."
Where did this happen? If you arent under arrest why did he go to the police station?

"

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Economist ()
Date: December 27, 2006 09:30PM

LOL Fallacy of Composition ^^^ re: BBT branch locations, and your stupid theory.

What is true about one (crazy people who shoot things up with guns) is not true about the whole (anyone with a gun in public).

Here are a few examples:
A main battle tank uses more fuel than a car. Therefore, the main battle tanks use up more of the available fuel in the world than do all the cars.

A tiger eats more food than a human being. Therefore, tigers, as a group, eat more food than do all the humans on the earth.


So take your communist loving, pig eating, liberal progressive, anti-christ bullshit elsewhere!

ps: pgens , great analogy on the linebacker and old woman.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 27, 2006 09:39PM

I hope the economist is only a board name and not your job. More branches equal more chances of being robbed. They also open branches in parts of town where others will not.

Also please stay out of Chipotles in Burke when it opens, I dont need some rambo wannabe blazing away at the cook because he was holding a knife.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Economist ()
Date: December 27, 2006 09:45PM

actually as a matter of fact, I think I may just get a gun and openly carry to chipotle's only just to piss you off, why? CAUSE I FUCKING CAN. GOD BLESS AMERICA AND FUCK COMMUNISTS.

and the falacy of composition also refers to your assumption that someone with a gun and extra rounds of ammo has plans to shoot something up in a violent spree kill ending with 'death by cop'.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 27, 2006 09:57PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Surrounding a person's table and escorting them
> out of a restaurant to question them is public
> harassment. Meeting a guy outside starbucks,
> taking his holstered gun and driving him to a
> police station is harassment."
> Where did this happen? If you arent under arrest
> why did he go to the police station?

Starbucks incident, mentioned about 75% down the article:
http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20040719-102254-3826r.htm

Restaurant incident:
http://www2.vcdl.org/cgi-bin/wspd_cgi.sh/vcdl/vadetail.html?RECID=993481

Another restaurant incident:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50416-2004Jul14.html

These things do happen and harassment of law-abiding restaurant patrons is real... denying them is pointless.

Now Tim45 it is YOUR turn. Please provide evidence that law-abiding citizens "blazing guns" in restaurants because they are unhappy with food happens. Your fantastical posts of events and problems that don't exist aren't supporting your argument.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2006 10:19PM by pgens.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: December 27, 2006 10:02PM

Wow this has caused quit a bit of emotion. I have a concealed carry permit and I do open carry in this county and other counties sometimes (gasp). As long as the gun is "common observation" or visible from all three sides of my person it is considered open carry. I do not need a permit to open carry, if police ask for an ID I will show it (they never have). Legally they can do no more if I am in public and never remove the gun from the holster and the gun holds no more than 20 rounds. OR I could conceal it being I have the permit and no one would be the wiser. I cannot bring this to schools or court houses or airports or jails or places of worship. Quit your bitchin and move to Maryland already.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 27, 2006 10:28PM

If they know the law why are they letting the cops take their guns?

Because I dont want someone sitting next to me in a bar with an exposed gun where drunks are at does not equal I am afraid of guns. I am afraid of someone who doesnt know the first thing about weapon retention, when to shoot and not shoot and knowing a target and what is beyond it. I am afraid that a drunk in the same bar will act stupid and take the gun away from the person when they are not paying attention or are simply overpowered.

I did read one of the articles on the guys openly carrying handguns in their holsters in a restaurant. In the accompanying picture the one guys gun is sticking way out in back. The grip is fully exposed and the gun is secured by only a strap. He has little or no control of that weapon.

Economist your anger only points that one so easily disturbed probably has no business owning a gun.

If you want the real reason crime is lower in Virginia it is because they did away with parole and probation. I dont think a real criminal is going to be scared off by a bunch of Dale Gribble gun fanatics. Ten years time in Va equals ten years in Maryland and DC it equals maybe two years or less.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Economist ()
Date: December 27, 2006 11:37PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they know the law why are they letting the cops
> take their guns?
>
> Because I dont want someone sitting next to me in
> a bar with an exposed gun where drunks are at does
> not equal I am afraid of guns. I am afraid of
> someone who doesnt know the first thing about
> weapon retention, when to shoot and not shoot and
> knowing a target and what is beyond it. I am
> afraid that a drunk in the same bar will act
> stupid and take the gun away from the person when
> they are not paying attention or are simply
> overpowered.
>
> I did read one of the articles on the guys openly
> carrying handguns in their holsters in a
> restaurant. In the accompanying picture the one
> guys gun is sticking way out in back. The grip is
> fully exposed and the gun is secured by only a
> strap. He has little or no control of that weapon.
>
>
> Economist your anger only points that one so
> easily disturbed probably has no business owning a
> gun.
>
> If you want the real reason crime is lower in
> Virginia it is because they did away with parole
> and probation. I dont think a real criminal is
> going to be scared off by a bunch of Dale Gribble
> gun fanatics. Ten years time in Va equals ten
> years in Maryland and DC it equals maybe two years
> or less.


Your stupidity shouldn't allow you to have the free right to speech, dipshit...

And no probation in VA? Riiiiiiiiiiight...

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: December 28, 2006 12:04AM

Well VA does have the second most active death row in the country, only Texas eclipses us. I think generally laws are stricter and court/leo funding is greater in this state. Plus I sure as fuck wouldn't want to car jack anyone knowing they could legally carry a gun in their car as long as it was in the open. I keep a gun in my center console at all times while in VA (concealed). We have to remember northern VA is the bastard step child of VA. Fredericksburg on south it is much more common to open carry without prozac laden soccer moms calling 911 and jamming their onstar buttons.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 28, 2006 12:16AM

Tim45 is afraid of the trained and responsible gun owners, but has no fear of the criminals hiding weapons in the same place. Like the ostrich, if he can't see a danger he just feels better. His mind isn't going to be changed and he refuses to come up with examples that show his fears have any basis in reality. That's fine, we can move on. It is sad that he's afraid of the good guys though. Crime in NoVA has always been minuscule compared to DC... I guess he's saying that the year preceding parole abolishment in VA that NoVA looked like SE DC. Whatever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2006 12:21AM by pgens.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: December 28, 2006 07:18AM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want the real reason crime is lower in
> Virginia it is because they did away with parole
> and probation.


there is still probation. i dont know about parole.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 28, 2006 07:23AM

Probation is alive and kickin', indeed, and full of holes.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: NY Transplant ()
Date: December 28, 2006 09:05AM

They serve alcohol (massive quanties)....

Native, I would be more concerned about taking a 4 year old to any establishment that serves massive quantities of alcohol. Do you hang around bars with your kids on a regular basis?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: markand ()
Date: December 28, 2006 09:19AM

Armed guards and law abiding citizens carrying guns are no reason for alarm. They WILL deter crime. Most bad guys aren't stupid and won't commit a crime when they fear that a victim or bystander might be armed and able to stop them. And they do fear armed guards and armed citizens more than they fear police. Read John Lott's book, More Guns, Less Crime to learn, without all the emotion and hysteria, why this is so, and why Virginia, with gun laws that allow concealed and open carry, has a violent crime rate that is 1/10 that of DC, PG county, and Baltimore City, all of which virtually ban guns.

A person openly carrying a handgun in a restaurant is doing so because he/she KNOWS that is what is required under VA law. They are not a threat to anybody. The law should be changed to allow permit holders to carry concealed in such places.

Consider that a person lawfully carrying a gun in a restaurant is far safer than:

You, behind the wheel of your car (ESPECIALLY after you leave this restaurant)

Swimming pools (kids drown every year under the "watchful" eye of life guards)

Public school sporting events (quite a few kids are injured and killed every year playing high school sports, yet we don't hear hysteria demanding that sports be banned)

The gasoline for your lawn mower (which is probably not locked up and is toxic, has both fire hazard and the explosive potential of several hundred pounds of dynamite)

So lets get realistic and relax. An armed guard at the door, or the nice gun owner eating a meal with family or friends at a nearby table is no cause for alarm. Someone who would fearfully call 911 at the sight of a holstered gun IS cause for concern, as this isn't far from lighting a match in a crowded movie theater and yelling "FIRE".

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Peter Martin ()
Date: December 28, 2006 10:21AM

How have we reached the level of idiocy that a Glock is known as more dangerous that the "average handgun" -- It's just a popular model with a following by police and some military.

What's the problem with armed guards? It lets the patrons know they better not "f' anything up"(a TGI Fridays in our area has an armed guard)

I'm more concerned about the guy who keeps a gun in jacket or pants to "cause trouble" than someone with a quality holster, and a good holster ($50-$100+) will secure the weapon.. I have seen individuals carry guns in a manner that is dangerous/unprofessional.

For the record, I have a concealed weapons permit and carry a Glock 26 concealed and a Sig Arms P226 openly.

There are a lot more people than you realize who have permits and carry... And why don't we just "open fire" at the least provocation like most of the gang-bangers?

I don't want to be in prison and endure the daily gang-rapes.. It's just that simple.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Native 1963 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 11:12AM

NY Transplant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They serve alcohol (massive quantities)....
>
> Native, I would be more concerned about taking a 4
> year old to any establishment that serves massive
> quantities of alcohol. Do you hang around bars
> with your kids on a regular basis?


I had no idea that Glory Day's was a bar disguised as a restaurant. I went there at 11:00 am for a kids soccer team party. I don't drink alcohol beverages
around children. Please tell me a restaurant in the Burke area that doesn't serve alcohol.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: XD Owner ()
Date: December 28, 2006 11:14AM

native1963 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...That's it for me, I have not and never will
> patronize an establishment that needs an armed
> guard. UNQUOTE

So, no visits to banks, Target, Giant grocery store, jewelry stores (where armed armored car guards make pickups and deliveries of, duh, money), police stations, Federal Buildings, airports, VA Department of Motor Vehicles, certain IHOPs, and I would stay awy from Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) because he is known for having an armed bodyguard (even though he is prohibited by Federal law.

See http://www.ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/press-releases/CC-Snoopdogg.htm

Quote: "Some years ago, Kennedy bodyguard Chuck Stein was arrested at the Russell Senate Office Building with a handgun, two submachine guns and 146 rounds of ammunition."

And you are hereby warned that Senator-elect Jim Webb (D-VA) carries a gun, so steer clear of him too!

Proof: http://mydd.com/story/2006/11/1/122720/072

native1963, I advise you to undergo firearm sensitivity and safety training by enrolling a firearms safety course at Blue Ridge Arsenal in Chantilly or a similar center and get de-sensitized, otherwise your acute case of hoplophobia will impact your daily life activities.

Sincerely,
XD Owner

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 11:21AM

Those on probation were released prior to its abolishment. Ten years jail time now is about nine years and six months with good behavior. In Maryland its ten years equals about two years or less.

Like I pointed out the guy sitting in Fridays with his gun sticking out in back. He had no control over the weapon nor did he appear to be able to stop anyone from taking it as he was about 400 pounds. The holster was a cheap type and the gun could be easily removed. You may trust that type I dont. His slack demeanor on gun control endangers everyone in that restaurant.

Does your logic on more guns displayed and carried equals less crime apply to all states or just Virginia? If it is all states please direct your attention to Florida which has one of the highest concealed weapons permit holders but leads the nation in violent crime.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: XD Ower ()
Date: December 28, 2006 11:43AM

From FBI 2005 crime statistics VC=Violent Crime/M=Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter / Rp=Forcible rape /Rb=Robbery /AA=Aggravated assault

Source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_05.html


District of Columbia Population VC M Rp Rb AA
Metropolitan Statistical Area 550,521
Area actually reporting 100.0% 8,032 / 195 / 166 / 3,700 / 3,971

So, murders per 100,000 of population for DC is 35.42.

Florida Population VC M Rp Rb AA
Metropolitan Statistical Area 16,674,801
Area actually reporting 99.9% 119,621 /833 / 6,143/ 29,542/ 83,103

Florida's murders per 100K of population is only 5.00.

So while Florida has more murders than DC (833 vs. "only" 195 in 2005) you need to adjust for population. Florida is over 575 TIMES more populous. If Florida had the same murder rate as DC, Florida's murder victims would number 5,906.

So, I believe I have mathematically proved that gun-banning DC is OVER 7 TIMES more dangerous for murders than Florida where it is much easier for law-abiding people to keep and bear arms.

Tim 45, you been pwned!

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 11:53AM

To prove a point in a sad way I believe a police station would have to be the most heavily armed area around. With almost every employee carrying a gun to deter any violence one man comes onto the property to kill two police officers and wounds another. If you continue to back up your reasoning that having more guns will certainly deter crime you are dreaming.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: December 28, 2006 12:05PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With almost every employee carrying a
> gun to deter any violence one man comes onto the
> property to kill two police officers and wounds
> another.


that is the worst example EVER. the kid was schizophrenic and already out of his mind. that wasnt a blatant crime, it was a guy that went crazy. as far as he was concerned, he was defending the planet from an invasion. come up with a better example or stfu.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: XD Owner ()
Date: December 28, 2006 12:07PM

And Virginia's murder rate in 2005 per 100,000 was 6.129, slightly higher than Florida's, but again, MUCH LOWER than DC's. Funny, why does DC's gun ban make their murder rate HIGHER and not lower compared to gun freeedom states like Florida and Virginia? I know the answer. Do you, Tim 45?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: XD Owner ()
Date: December 28, 2006 12:21PM

The schizo psycho, Michael Kennedy, was released on bond by an idiot judge right before the shooting. Ban idiot judges, lock up criminals and then they cannot commit crimes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/09/AR2006050900649.html

QUOTE [pg. 2 of article]
The next day, Montgomery County District Court Commissioner Jonathan Lew set bond at $30,000 after reviewing a detective's summary describing Kennedy's escape and the carjacking, court records show.

Lew, who is in his first year on the job and is working under supervision, expected Kennedy to appear for a bond review hearing before a judge the next Monday. But a bail bondsman posted the bond the same day, meaning that Kennedy never had to appear. Paul Kemp, a criminal defense lawyer and a former president of the Montgomery County Bar Association, said, "The bond seems like a low number to me under the circumstances." Given the severity of the charge of armed carjacking and indications that Kennedy had mental problems, Kemp said he would have expected a commissioner to set bond between $150,000 and $1 million.

Administrative Commissioner Charles Peters said Lew had set "an appropriate bond for the case and the charge."
UNQUOTE.

Accused armed carjackers can get out on bond for $3,000? (FYI, the bail bondsman posts the rest, typically charging only 10%.)

If a policeman can have a gun, so should I. It is my right. If people don't like it, move to Canada, or DC!

For the record, I have a Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit, so I have passed a background check, fingerprints are on file, etc. etc. What do criminals do to obtain their guns? Just buy it from another thug without any background check.

Have a nice day.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: T-Bone™ ()
Date: December 28, 2006 12:29PM

You all are forgetting the great state of Vermont!

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: XD Owner ()
Date: December 28, 2006 12:31PM

Oh, I overlooked this quote about Virginia's judicial system in the same article.

"Horan said Kennedy probably would not have been free on bond in Virginia. "Most carjackings in this jurisdiction, you don't get a bond," the longtime prosecutor said."

Maryland's murder rate per 100,000 = 9.9, or over 62% HIGHER than Virginia's. Guess which state makes it nearly impossible to get a Concealed handgun Permit?

But since guns are not totally outlawed, Maryland's rate is a lot lower than DC's, imho.

I moved to Northern Virginia in 2000 from overseas precisely because Virginia is a pro gun freedom state compared to DC and Maryland. My job is in DC, unfortunately, so I try to minimize my time there. Since I work at a Federal Department in Northwest, there are armed guards EVERYWHERE, even though little school kids walk right past them all the time, it makes me feel safer.

Cheers!

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 28, 2006 01:06PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To prove a point in a sad way I believe a police
> station would have to be the most heavily armed
> area around. With almost every employee carrying a
> gun to deter any violence one man comes onto the
> property to kill two police officers and wounds
> another. If you continue to back up your reasoning
> that having more guns will certainly deter crime
> you are dreaming.

Your best defense of your position is a surprise attack by a suicidal asshole on a police station? Holy crap you are stupid. I thought it was limited to your Redskins game-day predictions but who knew you had absolutely no common sense or capacity to conduct a logical debate. No one could be this stupid... I'm assuming you are just trolling at this point.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: 495 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 02:02PM

Maybe it ought to be renamed "Gory Days"

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 02:55PM

I am sorry, I didnt know my responses were limited to only those you approved of. You stated that more guns equal less crime yet I am not allowed to point out an example that makes that statement untrue. "Thats different" doesnt really impress me.

Your other paranoid thoughts that as long as the police are armed you should be too is very telling. Are they out to get you, is everyone out to get you? Is a force of around 1000 officers going to take over a county of over one million?

I made only one point at the beginning that if you purchase and carry around a gun you should have training. Under current laws anyone with the desire can buy a gun with zero knowledge of how it works and what it is capable of doing. Training is only required for those with concealed weapon permits. Since I dont know the ability of some guy sitting behind my back with a gun, yes I have a problem with that.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: ferfux ()
Date: December 28, 2006 03:27PM

Great thats all we need. Some numbbnuts with a dirty Harry fixation carrying around his concealed Penis err firearm. WHatever happened to the good old days when a bar fight ended with the combatants either thrown out on the sidewalk with a bloody nose and or singing along drunkenly an hour leater with their one time brawling foes. If everyone has guns it ends with a hearse and a manslaughter charge.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: joeroket ()
Date: December 28, 2006 03:47PM

Tim45
The perp you speak of was obviously hellbent on dieing, ever hear of suicide by cop? The majority of criminals are looking for easy prey because they do not want to get caught nor do they wish a confrontation. The point of XDOwners post was to show that in a city that has easy prey because handguns are banned the murder rate is higher per capita than Florida.

It seems to me that you are very against people exercising thier rights that were granted to us by our founding fathers. Would you put this much effort into an argument about Freedom of Speech? I bet not.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: XD Owner ()
Date: December 28, 2006 03:50PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since I dont know the ability of some guy
> sitting behind my back with a gun, yes I have a
> problem with that.

Since when were you put in charge of determining who is a fit and proper person to carry a gun? That's a rhetorical question.

Are you really Mayor Michael Bloomberg (HA HA!) You sound like him.

Quote from New Yawk Daily News: "If you tell me you need a gun permit, you're telling me you don't think the NYPD can do a good job in protecting you," he said. "Most people, I don't see any reason why they need it."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/468081p-393928c.html

It's not a "need". It's a civil right to keep and bear guns. Virginian's shouldn't even need a permit. Alaska and Vermont got the right laws about guns. They don't need no stinkin' permits there.

If I had a billion dollars, I would march down 5th Avenue with a letter in my hand addressed to Mayor Bloomberg asking him to repeal NYC's gun laws with a Federally-taxed fully automatic Title II firearm slung over my back (along with some bodyguards, media with cameras rolling and my lawyers) and make a full blown constitutional case out of it because I assume I would be arrested, for violating NYC's unconstitutional gun laws. Unfortunately, I do not have those kind of bucks, but I wish someone would do something like that there and in DC! The time is ripe for Supreme Court cases settling the "debate" about the Second Amendment, U.S. Constitution and the individual right to keep and bear arms.

Get ready for this line now. Guns don't kill people, people kill people!

I have two guns and they haven't killed anyone. Should I get my money back?

I think pretty much anyone over age 18 understands that a loaded gun is dangerous when it is pointed at someone and you pull the trigger. If the gun is loaded (always a good assumption), a bullet will come out and hit whatever it is pointed at.

Bye bye troll!

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 04:09PM

Daughter and dad go to glory days for dinner.

Dad: wait a minute daddy has to go strap on his .357

Daughter: Why do you need that daddy no one else carries a gun in there

Dad: It makes everyone think I am a police officer even though I couldnt get hired nor do I have the guts to be one

Daughter: My teacher says she doesnt like guns

Dad: Well sweetie that is because she is anti-Christ, a communist and a lesbian. In fact anyone who disagrees with Daddy is a communist

Daughter: someday are you going to teach me to shoot?

Dad: No need for that honey just watch a few Dirty Harry movies like daddy and that is all you need to know

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Economist ()
Date: December 28, 2006 05:29PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sorry, I didnt know my responses were limited
> to only those you approved of. You stated that
> more guns equal less crime yet I am not allowed to
> point out an example that makes that statement
> untrue. "Thats different" doesnt really impress
> me.
>

Hahaha, you are retarded. You tried using the logic that there would be random gun violence because people were allowed to carry guns on their person. And then used a premediated incident as basis for your argument. You lose..

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: ferfux ()
Date: December 28, 2006 05:33PM

yeah all you guys strap your guns on and go to glory days or wherever and have a big ole shootout. Its gonna be like that last scene in Resevoir dogs when everyone gets mowed down by everyone else.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Economist ()
Date: December 28, 2006 05:38PM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Your other paranoid thoughts that as long as the
> police are armed you should be too is very
> telling. Are they out to get you, is everyone out
> to get you? Is a force of around 1000 officers
> going to take over a county of over one million?
>

Hmmmmmm. think about it. 1000 TRAINED officers with state of the art technology, a cache of ammunition, sniper rifles, body armor, vehicles, and whatever else they have or can get vs 400,000 males(females won't fight nor will children). Actually, 300,000 males are like you and are scared of their own shadow, so they won't fight. 100,000 left. 50,000 will hit the road 50,000 Unorganized and spread out common folk with broomsticks and kitchen knives, whose bank accounts have been frozen most likely, and who are limited in supplies such as gasolene, vs FCPD. lol. that would be like the Tiananmen Square Massacre

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Genevieve ()
Date: December 28, 2006 05:48PM

If you are going to pick Tim45's logic, then I think you need to pick on XD Owner's logic as well. Comparing a city's murder rate to that of an entire state is not exactly a fair comparison. What about the demographics, the history of crime or the socio-economic factors?

You may be able to compare DC's murder rates over the years to prove that the gun ban has not resulted in a lower murder rate (although it still could be balancing out other factors causing the rate to rise). However, even if the murder rate has increased you will not be able to prove the increase was caused by the ban.

Personally, I think that the ban is pointless; I imagine that most murderers would not be concerned with the risk of owning a banned gun. However, I'm not making any unsubstantiated claims about the role of guns in reducing murder rates.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 05:54PM

Man you have put some real thought into this and that is scary.You really think the FCPD has plans to take over the county?

What exactly are they going to take over? They already tax us to death.

I have lived here a long time and every cop from Fairfax I have met is pretty decent. I have gotten a few tickets and every one I deserved for one reason or another. I never thought they had some secret plan to take over.

Any thoughts as to when this big day will come. I was taking a beating on here because I didnt want to drink next to some cop wanna be guy with a .44 and a long line of BS. Yet you saved the day by your paranoid consiracy theory. Now go to the doctor and remove that chip the CIA put in you at birth.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 28, 2006 07:28PM

FCPD taxes us? That's a news item! Oh wait, consider the poster who also wants to abolish the Bill of Rights because he is uncomfortable with many of the freedoms granted.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tomahawk ()
Date: December 28, 2006 08:35PM

I live in Fairfax County, and I often carry open in and around police stations, restaraunts, even in Rosslyn. The police in NoVA know it's legal and don't bother me.

I don't need to explain to anyone why I carry. It's my right and I feel like it. Period. Save any silly hypothetical situations you can think up, and all your insults. If the presence of guns makes you uneasy or unhappy, go someplace where people's right to self defense is restricted, like NY or DC, otherwise deal with it and enjoy the freedom you have.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tomahawk ()
Date: December 28, 2006 08:38PM

Oh, and BTW, did anyone here consider the notion that the armed man in the original post was not a security guard, but just a regular guy?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Date: December 28, 2006 09:04PM

I don't need to explain to anyone why I carry. It's my right and I feel like it. Period. Save any silly hypothetical situations you can think up, and all your insults. If the presence of guns makes you uneasy or unhappy, go someplace where people's right to self defense is restricted, like NY or DC, otherwise deal with it and enjoy the freedom you have.

Im going to have to agree with Tomahawk.

This thread is getting a bit off topic from the original post and getting into more and more rediculous hypotheticals on both sides of the issue. The guard in question would probably have some form of training if he/she works for a security company. It would be reckless of the company to employ them without educating them when and when not to engage security threats or drunk college students. The restraunt wouldnt hire any guard unless they worked for a reputable company because the liability involved would prohibit them from taking such a risk. The whole point of them hiring a guard is to reduce liability.

As to the whole gun debate, I think the point has been made clearly already that it is a right. One does not need to establish the NEED of a right. It is something inherent to all Americans. Do I NEED to bear arms? Probably not (I have a concealed carry permit yet I hardly ever cary). Do I NEED to say whatever I want? Probably not. Do I NEED the right to worship any god? Who knows. Does anyone NEED the right to a speedy public trial by an impartial jury? I think you see where Im going with this. If you dont exercise your rights, you will lose them. "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
And please remember that the Government does not grant you your rights.

As to all the crazy hypothetical situations, two points I would like to make:
1) A world without guns is not a world without violence. Europe was hardly a utopia before the 1300s. The evil will still prey on the weak. A handgun just happens to be the most efficient way of defending ones self. Take away my handgun and I'll buy a crossbow. Take away that and I'll buy a pike or a broadsword. My point is that I refuse to live in fear and I refuse to be a victim. Thats why I own a fire extinguisher, guns, and a first aid kit.
2) Making more restrictive laws will only hinder honest citizens from protecting themselves. Be it in the home or on the street. Be it a 400 pound man who cant outrun an attacker or a single mother of 4 in the ghetto who cant count on the police to get from the station to her house before the rapist at her doorstep breaks in the window. If any of you dont want to own a gun, that is your decision and I respect that. But if you try and take mine away from me then you are enfringing on my rights.
Molon Labe.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 09:10PM

"silly hypothetical situations " Considering two police officers were killed I hardly think of that as hypothetical. But I forgot I cant bring that up as an incident of a gun being used because that is "different".

I cant get past the fact I didnt want some guy in a bar with an exposed gun around drunks. We will have to agree to disagree that it is just asking for trouble. I want to enjoy a beer in a restaurant without some guy that has to show everyone he is ready for trouble by carrying a gun. How that is against the bill of rights I am not sure. I would rather not risk my familys safety in a restaurant that you are a great shot or you know exaclty when and when not to shoot.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 28, 2006 09:23PM

You all are really making me want to go shooting now, but I'll be up un PA Dutch country all weekend, and I think all the Almish kids are on Christmas break.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 09:24PM

As long as you are so quick to point out that it is your right to carry a gun around do you include the right to free speech? Anytime I have stated I would rather not have a guy walking around with a gun in a bar I am told I need to leave the state if not the country. This is typical of the type that at the beginning of the Iraq war told anyone against it to leave the country and that they didnt support the troops. Freedom of speech only seems to apply to anyone with your point of view.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 28, 2006 09:27PM

Note that I never told you that, Tim, and further I think you have some valid opinions. On this topic.

I personally just like the sound of a bullet entering a man's skull.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 09:38PM

Reston my post was to the guy previous not you, it just came in late. I have been the target of some of your posts in the past but have always found you to be tolerant of others rights to an opinion.

I see a guy walking around an establishment, that serves alcohol, with a gun I see trouble. My opinion only. I have been in glory days and I have seen a few fights. I would rather not have a gun mixed in with it, does that make me a bad person and abolisher of all rights?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2006 09:53PM by Tim45.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 28, 2006 09:50PM

Become a spokesman for the Thomas A Smith Electric Rifle Company. Ends all barfights death-free.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tomahawk ()
Date: December 28, 2006 09:53PM

"As long as you are so quick to point out that it is your right to carry a gun around do you include the right to free speech?"

Sure. You have a right to say whatever you want.

But if you like to call the cops on people just for peacably carrying in a holster (especially since you now know it's legal) then I am kindly inviting you to go to DC, where that sort of thing is encouraged. In VA, you're just wasting the cops' time. I suppose you have a "right" to get in my face if you see me carrying in public, but that's rude and confrontational, and I would ask you to leave me alone.

Look, this must eat at you for some reason else you would've let it drop after replying to my post the first time. I'm not interested in a flame war, I just believe in exercising our rights, and defending them verbally, including freedom of speech.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Alaskan454 ()
Date: December 28, 2006 10:58PM

I just don't get it. Society has become so brainwashed that the mere sight of a firearm that is not accompanied by a badge and/or a uniform is deemed terrifying, and sometimes the badge/uniform doesn't make much difference (as was the case in the original post). A gun is nothing more than a tool, with a specific mission and purpose, and in that respect, it is no different than a cell phone or PDA similarly carried on one's belt. Many more people die in automobiles than die by firearms. Do people become frightened just from the sight of a car?

The bottom line is this: If doing so is not illegal, one may carry a firearm, either in plain view or concealed. That is their right. Another individual may speak to them regarding their displeasure with that choice, as long as this conversation does not become threatening or escalate to assault. That is their right. Both are protected by the Constitution. However, nowhere in the constitution does it say that one is guaranteed the right not to be displeased by the actions of another, as long as said actions are not prohibited by law.

If the sight of guns disturbs you, lobby to repeal the Second Amendment, and deal with seeing guns until you are successful, or move to another location like DC or NYC that has somehow already found a way to circumvent the supreme law of the land - the Constitution.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Economist ()
Date: December 28, 2006 11:13PM

lol, this is hilarious. tim45 is a girly man. to try to say that guns caused the shooting deaths of those two police officers is ludicrous. the guy was a fucking nut , one that had been mistreated by police officers in the past and he held a grudge. if he had lit the station on fire should we ban personal carry of gasolene?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 28, 2006 11:41PM

Here is a note I just got from an email as part of a mailing list I am on. It tells a story of how open-carry prevented a bank robbery and possible injuries of customers at a bank in Virginia two days ago, all without the carrier doing anything but being there. I invite all anti-open-carry proponents to comment on why open-carry was wrong in this case.

----------------
On Tuesday the 26th of December I went down to the Sun Trust bank in
Hopewell to complete some financial transactions. I got there just as they
were opening and entered with a woman who had been waiting outside. There
were three tellers in position to the left, one customer service associate
at a desk to the right, and the manager was seated in his office to the
rear right, so there were seven of us in the bank.

I have been banking there for years and know the tellers fairly well, who
are quite used to me walking in with my holstered 1911 government model
.45 and two reserve magazines. As I was transacting business with my
teller, a man came in through the front door on this warm December morning
wearing a full ski mask, with only his eyes showing. He was wringing his
hands and glanced furtively toward the office and then swept his eyes
across the room, finally towards me and the tellers. At that, he turned
and BOLTED back out the door!

The teller next to my position was the first to recognize the implications
of what had just happened, and yelled for the manager who came rushing out
from his office. He glanced toward me before sticking his head out the
front door, looking both ways down the sidewalk, and pronouncing that the
suspicious character had apparently left the area. The same teller then
expressed her relief that I had been there, and mentioned that the next Sun
Trust down on Route 10 (Iron Bridge Road) had just been robbed the week
before.

I regret to say that I was pretty oblivious to anything but the business I
was immediately conducting, and walked out thinking no more about it as a
non-incident at the time. In fact, even later that evening I only
mentioned it as a casual after-thought in a conversation with Philip. He
urged me to write up this account of what had transpired, and I will leave
it to him to dissect and analyze the facts, psychologies, probabilities and
possible alternative outcomes.

FOLLOW UP

I went by the bank again today to make a deposit - same three tellers on
duty. I asked them if the police were called over the ski-masked intruder.
They said no, but they had all discussed the incident yesterday afternoon
and agreed that it was me standing there with a gun at Sharon's window
(first one from the door) that spooked him into changing his plans, and
they all thanked me again (although I didn't DO anything).
----------------------------------



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2006 11:41PM by pgens.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Smurfologist ()
Date: December 28, 2006 11:51PM

Leave Tim45 alone! He has his opinion; everyone else has theirs. All you can do is try to convince him that your position is the right position. If he can't be converted, so be it.

I feel that Tim45 just doesn't know any better. When he gets robbed by gunpoint like I was living in Chicago, he may feel different about things!!

2nd Amendment........Use it.......Or, lose it!!

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tim45 ()
Date: December 29, 2006 01:16AM

"lol, this is hilarious. tim45 is a girly man. to try to say that guns caused the shooting deaths of those two police officers is ludicrous. the guy was a fucking nut , one that had been mistreated by police officers in the past and he held a grudge"

No he was a nut with a gun. Where was the mistreatment by the police? Not sure owning or carrying a gun makes you more of a man but if that works for you go for it. Freud says something about that.

"If the sight of guns disturbs you, lobby to repeal the Second Amendment, and deal with seeing guns until you are successful, or move to another location like DC or NYC "

Another love it or leave it guy. I disagree with you so I should find somewhere else to live. Is that the freedom you keep talking about? Freedom of speech as long as I agree with you. How much of that did we hear at the beginning of the Iraq war. If you dont support it you should leave. Now look where we are at.

My opinion is as valid as the next because it is just that an opinion. I have seen drunks in bars act like idiots and I dont think throwing a gun into the mix is a good thing.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: rabbit ()
Date: December 29, 2006 02:00AM

Freud did have something to say about weapons
* A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
o General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Alaskan454 ()
Date: December 29, 2006 02:44AM

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


"If the sight of guns disturbs you, lobby to repeal the Second Amendment, and deal with seeing guns until you are successful, or move to another location like DC or NYC "

Another love it or leave it guy. I disagree with you so I should find somewhere else to live. Is that the freedom you keep talking about? Freedom of speech as long as I agree with you. How much of that did we hear at the beginning of the Iraq war. If you dont support it you should leave. Now look where we are at.

My opinion is as valid as the next because it is just that an opinion. I have seen drunks in bars act like idiots and I dont think throwing a gun into the mix is a good thing.

-------------------------------------------------------

Sir, I am not saying that because you and I disagree that you need to leave. I am just saying that I like it how it already is, and since you don't, I wanted to be sure you know that leaving is an option. This is the Commonwealth of Virginia, a great state in the United States of America. With a few exceptions and restrictions, our law here does not prohibit the carry of firearms by citizens. I offered you what is really the only choice out there: Work to change the law, and deal with the existing law until such time as you are successful, or move to another location in which you may be more comfortable.

Your opinion is indeed valid. Feel free to express your valid opinion as much as you desire. You have that right, and I will not attempt to stifle it. I will, however, exercise my same right to express my equally valid opinions, which happen to vehemently disagree with yours. I may also offer solutions, even if you don't like them. I used to live in California, but when the gun laws, taxes and rolling brownouts became too much to bear, I moved back to Virginia. I had a problem, and I found a solution. Yes, I bitched about the problems while I was there, but ultimately, I had to decide whether I could change things (no), live with it (no), or leave (yes).

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: billyjoebobedearl ebehart ()
Date: December 29, 2006 03:24AM

I do have to agree with Tim45 on the subject of guns and alcohol not mixing. We have a law in Wa. that does not allow us to carry at all in any part of an establishment that is designated off limits to people under 21 by the state liquor control board. It does a part of what you are not comfortable with but not all the way. I can go sit in the restaraunt part of an establishment that has a portion of it off limits to persons under 21 and still be in the presence of people drinking. I personally leave my firearm locked in the car and carry my clips with me when I have to come into that situation. It does not sound like you are totally anti-gun, just not comfortable with some laws concerning firearms. Am I correct on that?

BTW Frued is considered, by some professionals in psycotherapy, nowadays to be almost as nutty as some they treat. Although I do agree with some of his findings.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: XD Owner ()
Date: December 29, 2006 03:57AM

I make a motion to cease discussion of this topic. All in favor, DO NOT RESPOND!

I will permit Tim45 to have the last word, though, if he so chooses since it is of course a Consitutionally protected activity.

For the record, per my amateur analysis of this thread, I score this debate as:

In Favor of No Guns in Bars ---------------------------Guns in Bars are OK
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Native1963---------------------------------------------Boristhebulletdodger
Tim45--------------------------------------------------mad max, jd
-------------------------------------------------------pgens
-------------------------------------------------------wingman
-------------------------------------------------------Mofo
-------------------------------------------------------?
WashingToneLocian--------------------------------------Gravis
495----------------------------------------------------IM
-------------------------------------------------------The Economist
-------------------------------------------------------NY Transplant
-------------------------------------------------------Markand
-------------------------------------------------------Peter Martin
-------------------------------------------------------XD Owner
-------------------------------------------------------T-Bone™
ferfux-------------------------------------------------joeroket
-------------------------------------------------------Tomahawk
RESton Peace-------------------------------------------Alaskan454
-------------------------------------------------------Smurfologist
billyjoebobedearl ebehart-------------------------------------------

7 "no guns in bars" vs. --------------------------------18, it's ok.


Unsure: , Genevieve, rabbit (they did not really address the issue, although I am tempted to put both of them in the guns in bars are ok camp.)

Note: This is totally unscientific and assumes people are using the same handles every time.

Let me add, drinking alcoholic beverages and gun carrying do not mix. But if I go to a bar with my gun, I will be drinking a Coca-Cola on the rocks and nothing else. Someone has to be the designated driver and armed bodyguard. Because Virginia law prohibits concealed carry of a firearm in any establishment that serves alcohol, I will open carry it.

If people like Tim45 do not like open carry of guns in bars, please write your state legislator and ask them to make concealed carry in bars an option for those of us with concealed handgun permits.

Of course, this will not entirely solve the problem since some people do not like the hassle, expense and the public record aspect of the concealed handgun permitting process, so non-permit holders will still have to open carry until Virginia gets gun laws like Vermont's.

In Vermont, you can conceal carry without a permit. Vermont's laws and Federal laws against brandishing, murder, malicious wounding, disharging a firearm in an occupied dwelling, assault with a deadly weapon, felon in possession of a deadly weapon, use of a deadly weapon during the commission of a felony, possession of a firearm in a courthouse or Federal facility, etc., seem to be enough and sufficient for putting away bad guys.

By the way, where is Tim's permit to possess or use a computer connected to the Internet? I want to see that! If the founding fathers had wanted us to exercise "free speech" using devices full of deadly electricity, they would have said so. Only quill pens and parchment for you people!

Since I have a Federal government job, you can assume I am permitted to use these potentially deadly devices. But I don't know about Tim45!

Peace, OUT!

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 29, 2006 06:03AM

Actually, I have no idea where I came down so strongly. I think we should have guns in ALL places to increase the chances I will be satisfied by hearing a bullet penetrate a man's skull.

But Genevieve hates guns, I'm just going to speak for her right now, she does not want guns in bars unless they have water or booze loaded in them.

Ever taken a super-soaker shot of vodka? Where you stand as far away from the shooter as possible and try to down the booze as it streams in?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Economist ()
Date: December 29, 2006 07:45AM

In that fucking order? No way, my name should be third at least

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Lurker ()
Date: December 29, 2006 09:12AM

Alcohol and Guns, great mix.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: vd ()
Date: December 29, 2006 10:07AM

One should assume from some of these posts that alcohol and computers do not mix either.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Rabbit ()
Date: December 29, 2006 10:41AM

Yep, gun carrying people go into bars all the time and have massive shootouts or just shoot into the air after we get massively loaded. FCPD even approves of activity since they almost never hassle open carriers.

Seriously, most people in bars with open carry weapons are probably permit holders who are stuck with no choice. You want these guns to disappear, convince the VA leg to remove restriction of concealed guns in restaurants.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: T-Bone™ ()
Date: December 29, 2006 06:01PM

Alaskan454 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is the Commonwealth of
> Virginia, a great state in the United States of
> America.

Don't mean to nit pick, however, you are either a state or a commonwealth. You cannot be both. Virginia is not a state.

p.s. my next handgun just happens to be a Alaskan .44, Didn't know they made it in a 454, is not that barrel a tad short for a 454?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Firrat ()
Date: December 29, 2006 06:34PM

..... This thread can drag on for pages and what have we accomplished?

Someone, atleast send this to the state and title it....We the people from fairfaxunderground.com/forum have come to this conclusion.... But the funny part is...you all are trying to change one anothers point of view?.....everyones point of view is different so its pointless to argue about this.......waste of your life

....Argue about something else this is getting boring...

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 29, 2006 07:59PM

Then why post anything ever? Tell me what the Amanda Wenk and D&M threads, which went on forever, accomplished? At least it may educate others who read it. Many arguments and non-rebutted examples were given and I'm still waiting for someone to post a serious post on why those views are incorrect or harmful. I don't think anyone expects any minds to change. If you are bored then don't continue reading the thread... seems simple enough.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: ferfux ()
Date: December 29, 2006 08:14PM

The Founding fathers didnt see a time when Weapons would be mass produced in factories, the police and the military would have superior fire power just superior numbers. The populace and military of the time was armed with Muskets both of which was made by craftsment. Founding father's world had people who needed weapons to hunt for food. So im not saying but ASKING is an armed populace what the founding fathers determined when pointing at that ammendment?
On the one hand we have laws against murder nad manslaughter and look down on vigilantes BUT we have concealed carry laws and permits for the right to bear arms. THere are laws in the US against the military acting as apolice force for a reason so noone could take over and STAY in power. Earlier someone posted about an armed insurrection by the FCPD? Come on!?

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Mofo ()
Date: December 29, 2006 09:35PM

I also agree alcohol and firearms are a bad mix. But it is not illegal to drink and open carry in this state in a place that allows it, but I personally don't/would not.
Attachments:
Opencarrymap.png

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tomahawk ()
Date: December 29, 2006 10:10PM

"On the one hand we have laws against murder nad manslaughter and look down on vigilantes BUT we have concealed carry laws and permits for the right to bear arms. THere are laws in the US against the military acting as apolice force for a reason so noone could take over and STAY in power."

Unfortunately, governments are very bad at obeying their own laws, especially laws that prohibit them from using the military on their own people, and the Bill of Rights, which is actually a list of things that the federal government may not do to individuals.

The fact that we need a permit to own or carry weapons in some states is an example of how governments ignore restrictions on themselves. Someone earlier mentioned free speech, which is another freedom that is supposed to be protected, but which is frequently violated by government officials. And since 911, the idiots across the river have been talking about using the military to police us "the next time" it happens.

As for whether the founders meant for the populace to be armed in an age of mass-produced high-tech weapons, the answer lies in the fact that no matter the technology level, human nature hasn't changed. As individuals we still need to be able to protect ourselves and our families from bad guys. The word "independence" was a key part of the world in which the founders lived, and even today, you must be independent enough to take care of yourself, at least long enough for the cops or the paramedics to show up.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 29, 2006 11:13PM

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Founding fathers didnt see a time when Weapons
> would be mass produced in factories, the police
> and the military would have superior fire power
> just superior numbers. The populace and military
> of the time was armed with Muskets both of which
> was made by craftsment. Founding father's world
> had people who needed weapons to hunt for food.
> So im not saying but ASKING is an armed populace
> what the founding fathers determined when pointing
> at that ammendment?

Finally, a well-posed question. The founding fathers used precise language to reveal the intent. If you pull up a copy of the Constitution, the wording "the people" is only mentioned two times in the non-amended areas... the Preamble and the House of Representatives election cycle. Both of these clearly are speaking of the citizenry (not just members of the military, not just hunters). The next time we find that wording is in the First Amendment, which says "... the right of the people peaceably to assemble...". The next of course is the Second Amendment "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms..." and the next is the Fourth Amendment "...The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures...". We see from these that the Second Amendment is totally surrounded by the same term "the people" it uses, and in every case it clearly refers to the citizenry. Why would the founding fathers have meant any differently for the Second Amendment?

If you want more details on this (and probably more than you would want), here is a link to a Feb 1982 Congressional subcommittee document studying this issue:

http://www.constitution.org/mil/rkba1982.htm




> On the one hand we have laws against murder nad
> manslaughter and look down on vigilantes BUT we
> have concealed carry laws and permits for the
> right to bear arms.

The reasons for keeping and bearing arms are different than murder and vigilantism (for the good guys, at least). Self defense, protection against tyrannical government, and hunting being among them. It would be like arguing all knives, including cooking knives, should be banned because knives are used by murderers and vigilantes.

The sad thing about concealed carry laws is that they exist in the first place. The primary reason I got one was so that I could transport a handgun in my glove compartment while traveling around Virginia. You can't do that in Virginia without a conceal carry permit. You can place it in plain view on the dashboard or on the passenger seat, but then you risk freaking out Tim45. In order to "keep and bear arms" by practical means in some cases, you have to go through the conceal carry permit background checks, paperwork, fees and courthouse visit. So they aren't handed out like candy, not everyone can meet the requirements and background check, and the fact that one is needed at all is not indicative of freedoms... it demonstrates the need of Virginia to check you out and know what you are doing ahead of time and approve it. Luckily VA is a "shall-issue" state, which means they have to grant you one if you have met the requirements and pass the background check. In the old days you had to provide reasons and it was up to a judge or sheriff whether to give you one or not. They even have you marked in the DMV database so if you are pulled over they know you have one. All this in order to act as freely as gang-bangers do... they don't need to bother with all of this legal stuff.

> THere are laws in the US
> against the military acting as apolice force for a
> reason so noone could take over and STAY in power.
> Earlier someone posted about an armed
> insurrection by the FCPD? Come on!?

This isn't as crazy as you would think. In fact this changed in 2006... read this:

http://www.nystringer.com/html/martia_1.HTM


Also take some time to read this piece by Ted Rall (who is as liberal as they come I will add. No one ever said I wasn't even-handed) on the Military Commissions Act recently signed by Bush.

http://www.uexpress.com/tedrall/?uc_full_date=20061010

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Firrat ()
Date: December 30, 2006 02:38AM

This really comes down to common sense......

If alcohol impares our judgement to think....this means....carrying a weapon under the influence of alcohol is a simple view of common sense that it may cause accidents due to alcohol creating a less caring mindset.....


But ofcourse we all already know this....

But carrying a weapon while sober is the same as someone having a weapon on them even if they did not physically carry it.....Why? For someone to own a weapon they must be licensed.....The way i see it is, while sober people are responsible and know the consequences of there action...... So therefor if a sober weapon holder was to use his weapon it would be due to a fight or defence matter.....This situation doesnt commanly happen while sober.....But at anytime this weapon holder wanted to use his weapon? with his determination he may use his weapon anytime he would like......with the privilage given to him by the state....

So him having a weapon at a bar doesnt really resolve the issue.......Bars should not "Ban" weapons...but "Ban" anyone that owns a weapon if you want to look at it this way.....

As for the idiot affraid of a hired security guard carrying a weapon....He just had a mother that probably couldnt stop running her mouth from the "what ifs"

A person like him needs to gain confidence in security over time....He needs to realize he is in the real world, in fairfax...Infact it is his own lack of thought....he cannot Think on his own that security was hired for his own safety....therefor if for any reason the bar was attacked the security is there for his defence....If someone cannot think about this and feels this way.... they need to educate themselves in this matter so they wouldnt post this and it wouldnt piss me off so fucking much on how fucking stupid they are.

I cant stop thinking about him feeling uncomfy about security having a weapon.....I wish we as the United States, always were this prepared for anything....People such as you who does not feel comfy around more security but gets you paranoid and scared make us more vulnerable to unprepared events & deaths.

Thanks to FBI+CIA we are informed....The rest is upto if its belived or not...

I will give up my rights in case of an investigation of a murder or attack planned etc..... Our Gov. does not work against us but for our own good....People fighting this isnt here for a better america but for a weaker, vulnerable america.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Tomahawk ()
Date: December 30, 2006 12:03PM

Firrat wrote "But carrying a weapon while sober is the same as someone having a weapon on them even if they did not physically carry it.....Why? For someone to own a weapon they must be licensed....."

A. You DO NOT NEED A LICENSE TO OWN A WEAPON in Virginia. Period. No more than you need a license to go to church or speak your mind.

B. Who's talking about carrying drunk? Was the guy/security guard at the start of this thread drunk? I dodn't read that.

Whether you carry a gun or not, whether you drink or not, whether you drive a car or not, isn't the issue.

Whether you act like an irresponsible ass while drinking, driving, or carrying, is the issue.

I judge a person by their behavior, not by the peaceable things they choose to do to have fun or to protect themselves.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Firrat ()
Date: December 30, 2006 02:20PM

Tomahawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Firrat wrote "But carrying a weapon while sober is
> the same as someone having a weapon on them even
> if they did not physically carry it.....Why? For
> someone to own a weapon they must be
> licensed....."
>
> A. You DO NOT NEED A LICENSE TO OWN A WEAPON in
> Virginia. Period. No more than you need a license
> to go to church or speak your mind.
>
> B. Who's talking about carrying drunk? Was the
> guy/security guard at the start of this thread
> drunk? I dodn't read that.
>
> Whether you carry a gun or not, whether you drink
> or not, whether you drive a car or not, isn't the
> issue.
>
> Whether you act like an irresponsible ass while
> drinking, driving, or carrying, is the issue.
>
> I judge a person by their behavior, not by the
> peaceable things they choose to do to have fun or
> to protect themselves.




Firrat wrote "But carrying a weapon while sober is
> the same as someone having a weapon on them even
> if they did not physically carry it.....Why? For
> someone to own a weapon they must be
> licensed....." <---- I was referring to a pistol.... my mistake by generalizing it as a "weapon"

Exactly.....people do not drink and carry there weapon we assume...therefor they do not need to be affraid of people carrying a weapon....It is the bar owners responsibility to make sure a weapon holder does not drink.....But if a sober weapon holder wanted to carry a weapon it is his choice due to his abilities to think straight while sober....If a weapon holder has the determination he has the ability of murder etc... This privilage is given to our people by the state....It is the states responsibility to keep conrtol over such ability...

Point? Its not like there is a drunk dumbass who is carrying a weapon at glory days he needs to be affraid of....Infact there is nothing @ glory days he needs to be affraid of.....Bringing a weapon such as a pistol anywhere....it needs to be out and visible.. This brings enough attention to the employees or manager of the bar to not serve this gentleman alcohol......So this man will remain sober...So MR Naive does not need to be so affraid.

Someone carrying while drunk is a bad scenario....But someone coming in there with the determination to shoot the place up is the worste case scenario....that is why the guard was hired.....to have people feel more secure.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: Firrat ()
Date: December 30, 2006 02:27PM

Tomahawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Firrat wrote "But carrying a weapon while sober is
> the same as someone having a weapon on them even
> if they did not physically carry it.....Why? For
> someone to own a weapon they must be
> licensed....."
>
> A. You DO NOT NEED A LICENSE TO OWN A WEAPON in
> Virginia. Period. No more than you need a license
> to go to church or speak your mind.
>
> B. Who's talking about carrying drunk? Was the
> guy/security guard at the start of this thread
> drunk? I dodn't read that.
>
> Whether you carry a gun or not, whether you drink
> or not, whether you drive a car or not, isn't the
> issue.
>
> Whether you act like an irresponsible ass while
> drinking, driving, or carrying, is the issue.
>
> I judge a person by their behavior, not by the
> peaceable things they choose to do to have fun or
> to protect themselves.


........................................

(Mr. Naive)
"They serve alcohol (massive quanties) and alcohol and guns don't mix"

(Mr. Naives mothers caused his non stop "what if" thoughts)...rather than
thinking of the actual probablitiy for this to happen....This means cops are as well unsafe.

"I used to take my kids there never again, my madcap 4 year old could unholster it in a second and accidentally kill someone"

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: December 30, 2006 05:38PM

Firrat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> For
> > someone to own a weapon they must be
> > licensed....." <---- I was referring
> to a pistol.... my mistake by generalizing it as a
> "weapon"

There isn't a license requirement for pistols either in Virginia.

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Re: armed guards at Glory Day's in Burke
Posted by: The Logical Man ()
Date: December 30, 2006 06:42PM

XD Owner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tim45 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

>
> Get ready for this line now. Guns don't kill
> people, people kill people!
>

Guns dont kill people, people kill people, with guns.

Hammers dont build houses, people build houses, with hammers. You cant build a house without a hammer... And you can certainly can kill someone without a gun, but not a 40 pacess.....

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