good tax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About 60 percent of the meals tax will be paid by
> people who live outside the county. It makes good
> sense.


How do you know this?
Ithink the tax will cut into my tips.

waiter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good tax Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > About 60 percent of the meals tax will be paid
> by
> > people who live outside the county. It makes
> good
> > sense.
>
>
> How do you know this?

He made them up. I mean that literally. The usual figure quoted is that nonresident sales make up about 28%, but a couple of sources put it slightly higher. The truth is WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE MEALS TAX DOLLARS ARE PAID BY NONRESIDENTS because nobody has gotten the kind of data needed to make that estimate. In the absence of hard data the County's numbers should be considered to be at the optimistic end.

waiter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you know this? I think the tax will cut into my tips.

An actual waiter would know that it is crap service that will cut into your tips. Whether they intend to leave you 15% or 30%, customers will meanwhile tend to tip against the bottom line.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He made them up. I mean that literally. The
> usual figure quoted is that nonresident sales make
> up about 28%, but a couple of sources put it
> slightly higher.

The often mischaracterized 28% is a Board of Tourists number that refers to numbers of people, not amounts of money. The non-residents who will pay the tax -- tourists, commuters, and business travelers -- spend more money per meal than the average person. A rational expectation for the share of actual revenues to be released from these people would be in the 33-35% range.

> The truth is WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE MEALS TAX DOLLARS
> ARE PAID BY NONRESIDENTS because nobody has gotten the kind of
> data needed to make that estimate.

LOL! And we have no idea what the high temperature will be tomorrow either. Take a statistics course or something.

> In the absence of hard data the County's numbers should be
> considered to be at the optimistic end.

I prefer to consider your posts to be worthless dull-brained bullshit. Because experience has taught me that most of them are.

^Out of touch^

Hows your kid's travel soccer team going.

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > The truth is WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE MEALS
> TAX DOLLARS
> > ARE PAID BY NONRESIDENTS because nobody has
> gotten the kind of
> > data needed to make that estimate.
>
> LOL! And we have no idea what the high
> temperature will be tomorrow either. Take a
> statistics course or something.

At least when it comes to anticipating tomorrow's temperature we have a large amount of data to work with. when it comes to anticipating the amount of meals tax revenue we will get from nonresidents we don't have that. If the County is so confident about that 28-35% figure, show us the data.

Also ironic that some troll who posts more on meals tax threads than I do would have the nerve to say "get a life".

It's a cash grab plain and simple, hiding behind this BS of "It's for the Schools" or "It will be paid by visitors", pure crap. Am I supposed to go to Loudoun to eat out ?

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill.N. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > He made them up. I mean that literally. The
> > usual figure quoted is that nonresident sales
> make
> > up about 28%, but a couple of sources put it
> > slightly higher.
>
> The often mischaracterized 28% is a Board of
> Tourists number that refers to numbers of people,
> not amounts of money. The non-residents who will
> pay the tax -- tourists, commuters, and business
> travelers -- spend more money per meal than the
> average person. A rational expectation for the
> share of actual revenues to be released from these
> people would be in the 33-35% range.

That's exactly wrong. Once AGAIN, the numbers are taken directly from a very broad economic model, Travel Economic Impact Model (TIEM), which estimates travel expenditures (not people as you continue to incorrectly state) which they pulled from the Virginia Tourism Corporation aka the U.S. Travel Association.

The calculation can be found on page 4 of Attachment A to the County Supervisor's memo (aka the meals tax "white paper") here:

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/news2/proposed-meals-tax-what-to-know-now/

It is as follows:

$2.852 billion total expenditures from the TIEM data above * 20% guesstimate for the percentage representing food-related expenditures = $570.4 million * .04 meals tax = the $22.8 million number given for meals tax revenue which happens to roughly correspond to 22.8% of the ~$100 million total revenue estimate ($96 million specifically).

That is the ONLY derivation of the number. There is no other. So that part of your BS is done.

The only people-related number given is for net in-/out-commuters. That has its own problems in the way that it's calculated and used including significantly that it completely ignores the rest of about 600,000 people in the county beyond that who eat multiple meals on a daily basis x ~365 days/year.


>
> > The truth is WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE MEALS
> TAX DOLLARS
> > ARE PAID BY NONRESIDENTS because nobody has
> gotten the kind of
> > data needed to make that estimate.
>
> LOL! And we have no idea what the high
> temperature will be tomorrow either. Take a
> statistics course or something.
>
> > In the absence of hard data the County's numbers
> should be
> > considered to be at the optimistic end.
>
> I prefer to consider your posts to be worthless
> dull-brained bullshit. Because experience has
> taught me that most of them are.


We may not know what the exact numbers will be but we can make some rough estimates and judgements of the quality of the analysis based on what we do know.

The TIEM number used as the basis for the Board's calculation is not appropriate as it is used. Without going into all of the reasons for that, I can demonstrate that it is not and the magnitude by which it is not using Arlington as an example for which we have the same TIEM data and actual data for its meals tax revenue.

On the same basis using the same TIEM data source, Arlington benefits from about $3.1 billion in annual travel-related expenditures (i.e., the same top-line number used by Fairfax in its estimate). Note that's $248 million MORE than Fairfax's.

Using the Board's same method of estimation:

$3.1 billion * 20% = $620 million * .04 = $24.8 million.

Yet Arlington's actual TOTAL revenue (i.e., including all of tourists, commuters, and residents) from it's meals tax was only $37.1 million.

So, rather than the assumed ~22% of estimated meals tax revenue that the Board is assuming for Fairfax, on the same basis that would represent a whopping 67%(!) of the $37.1 in total ACTUAL meals tax revenue for Arlington.

Or looked at another way assuming that the Board's 22% is correct, Arlington SHOULD be generating roughly 3X the meals tax revenue that it actually is.

In other words, the TIEM number significantly overestimates the level of expenditures. Primarily that's due to the nature of the TIEM-derived number itself which, while fine for its own uses, implies way too much in the way of expenditures for use as the Board does. Particularly so when simply trying to back 20% of it into a financial calculation based on county sales tax data (the basis for which also screwy in its own way). Also significantly, there is no attempt made to differentiate taxable vs non-taxable food expenditures for either. So their top-line numbers are all fucked up from the start.

Now if you want we can run through some similar calculations using the same data as it's given for in-commuters vs residents using Arlington's actuals (or Alexandria, Fairfax City, etc.) to solve for some of the unknowns and extrapolate to Fairfax County. Where that all will shake out is that based on their numbers at ~$100 million the Board's estimate appears to be off one way or another in the neighborhood of about $31 million. Either it's way too high (possible since all that they did was to take gross sales tax numbers for "food and drink places" and multiply by 4%), or we'd have to roughly double annual revenue from tourism and in-communting (highly unlikely), or residents will make up the difference.

Thank you for that information Math.

Math > Your Bullshit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get a life... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bill.N. Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > He made them up. I mean that literally. The
> > > usual figure quoted is that nonresident sales
> > make
> > > up about 28%, but a couple of sources put it
> > > slightly higher.
> >
> > The often mischaracterized 28% is a Board of
> > Tourists number that refers to numbers of
> people,
> > not amounts of money. The non-residents who
> will
> > pay the tax -- tourists, commuters, and
> business
> > travelers -- spend more money per meal than the
> > average person. A rational expectation for the
> > share of actual revenues to be released from
> these
> > people would be in the 33-35% range.
>
> That's exactly wrong. Once AGAIN, the numbers are
> taken directly from a very broad economic model,
> Travel Economic Impact Model (TIEM), which
> estimates travel expenditures (not people
> as you continue to incorrectly state) which they
> pulled from the Virginia Tourism Corporation aka
> the U.S. Travel Association.
>
> The calculation can be found on page 4 of
> Attachment A to the County Supervisor's memo (aka
> the meals tax "white paper") here:
>
> http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/news2/proposed-meals-
> tax-what-to-know-now/
>
> It is as follows:
>
> $2.852 billion total expenditures from the TIEM
> data above * 20% guesstimate for the percentage
> representing food-related expenditures = $570.4
> million * .04 meals tax = the $22.8 million number
> given for meals tax revenue which happens to
> roughly correspond to 22.8% of the ~$100 million
> total revenue estimate ($96 million specifically).
>
>
> That is the ONLY derivation of the number.
> There is no other. So that part of your BS is
> done.
>
> The only people-related number given is for net
> in-/out-commuters. That has its own problems in
> the way that it's calculated and used including
> significantly that it completely ignores the rest
> of about 600,000 people in the county beyond that
> who eat multiple meals on a daily basis x ~365
> days/year.
>
>
> >
> > > The truth is WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THE
> MEALS
> > TAX DOLLARS
> > > ARE PAID BY NONRESIDENTS because nobody has
> > gotten the kind of
> > > data needed to make that estimate.
> >
> > LOL! And we have no idea what the high
> > temperature will be tomorrow either. Take a
> > statistics course or something.
> >
> > > In the absence of hard data the County's
> numbers
> > should be
> > > considered to be at the optimistic end.
> >
> > I prefer to consider your posts to be worthless
> > dull-brained bullshit. Because experience has
> > taught me that most of them are.
>
>
> We may not know what the exact numbers will be but
> we can make some rough estimates and judgements of
> the quality of the analysis based on what we do
> know.
>
> The TIEM number used as the basis for the Board's
> calculation is not appropriate as it is used.
> Without going into all of the reasons for that, I
> can demonstrate that it is not and the magnitude
> by which it is not using Arlington as an example
> for which we have the same TIEM data and actual
> data for its meals tax revenue.
>
> On the same basis using the same TIEM data source,
> Arlington benefits from about $3.1 billion in
> annual travel-related expenditures (i.e., the same
> top-line number used by Fairfax in its estimate).
> Note that's $248 million MORE than Fairfax's.
>
> Using the Board's same method of estimation:
>
> $3.1 billion * 20% = $620 million * .04 = $24.8
> million.
>
> Yet Arlington's actual TOTAL revenue (i.e.,
> including all of tourists, commuters, and
> residents) from it's meals tax was only $37.1
> million.
>
> So, rather than the assumed ~22% of estimated
> meals tax revenue that the Board is assuming for
> Fairfax, on the same basis that would represent a
> whopping 67%(!) of the $37.1 in total ACTUAL meals
> tax revenue for Arlington.
>
> Or looked at another way assuming that the Board's
> 22% is correct, Arlington SHOULD be generating
> roughly 3X the meals tax revenue that it actually
> is.
>
> In other words, the TIEM number significantly
> overestimates the level of expenditures.
> Primarily that's due to the nature of the
> TIEM-derived number itself which, while fine for
> its own uses, implies way too much in the way of
> expenditures for use as the Board does.
> Particularly so when simply trying to back 20% of
> it into a financial calculation based on county
> sales tax data (the basis for which also screwy in
> its own way). Also significantly, there is no
> attempt made to differentiate taxable vs
> non-taxable food expenditures for either. So
> their top-line numbers are all fucked up from the
> start.
>
> Now if you want we can run through some similar
> calculations using the same data as it's given for
> in-commuters vs residents using Arlington's
> actuals (or Alexandria, Fairfax City, etc.) to
> solve for some of the unknowns and extrapolate to
> Fairfax County. Where that all will shake out is
> that based on their numbers at ~$100 million the
> Board's estimate appears to be off one way or
> another in the neighborhood of about $31 million.
> Either it's way too high (possible since all that
> they did was to take gross sales tax numbers for
> "food and drink places" and multiply by 4%), or
> we'd have to roughly double annual revenue from
> tourism and in-communting (highly unlikely), or
> residents will make up the difference.


That is good information. The meals tax is clearly a win-win. I will definitely vote yes.

Tom Davis, former Chairman of the Board of Supervisors announced that he would not support the meals tax referendum that will be on the ballot on November 8. During his tenure as Chair of the BOS he favored the meals tax in 1992, however, is against it this time because he believes that the School Board cannot be trusted with additional revenues.

can you provide the source please?

Math > Your Bullshit Wrote:o----------------------------------------------------
> That's exactly wrong.

It's exactly right, The 28% number is based on data from the Virginia Tourist Commission. Which is why the very next bullet in the County report has to point out that during 2015, more than 350,000 non-tourists commuted into Fairfax County every day. Note that this is a number of people, not an amount of money, and that no methodology is presented by which to separate out the spending habits of tourists vs business travelers vs commuters vs the rest of us. Note as well that the 350,000 number is more than triple the number that would apply in non-comparable Arlington County,

Briefly put here, you are just another low-grade anti-tax data-mangling twerp who is willing to lie in service to bogus attempts to support partisan fluff that cannot be based in fact. I wonder which misguided restaurant it is that you work for.

Inquisitive One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Davis, former Chairman of the Board of
> Supervisors announced that he would not support
> the meals tax referendum that will be on the
> ballot on November 8. During his tenure as Chair
> of the BOS he favored the meals tax in 1992,
> however, is against it this time because he
> believes that the School Board cannot be trusted
> with additional revenues.

Yet another illustration of the corrupt depths that meals tax opponents will and are forced to stoop to. It's nothing new for their ilk however.

can anyone provide a source for this quote from Tom Davis? I can't find it via "google". Thanks

It was from an interview on WMAL this morning. They may have an audio clip of the interview on their website.

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inquisitive One Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tom Davis, former Chairman of the Board of
> > Supervisors announced that he would not support
> > the meals tax referendum that will be on the
> > ballot on November 8. During his tenure as
> Chair
> > of the BOS he favored the meals tax in 1992,
> > however, is against it this time because he
> > believes that the School Board cannot be
> trusted
> > with additional revenues.
>
> Yet another illustration of the corrupt depths
> that meals tax opponents will and are forced to
> stoop to. It's nothing new for their ilk however.

You were saying????????

From WMAL website:


INTERVIEW: TOM DAVIS – former VA congressman and former co-chair of the Fairfax County Meals Tax Task Force. He was the former chairman of the Board of Supervisors during the 1992 meals-tax battle
•Davis supported the meals-tax in 1992 but now has changed his mind on the tax.

There is a perfect solution to the meals tax dilemma. If the School Board would resign en masse today the meals tax would pass with a 20 percent margin. That is a guarantee.

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Math > Your Bullshit
> Wrote:o-------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > That's exactly wrong.
>
> It's exactly right, The 28% number is based on
> data from the Virginia Tourist Commission. Which
> is why the very next bullet in the County report
> has to point out that during 2015, more than
> 350,000 non-tourists commuted into Fairfax County
> every day. Note that this is a number of people,
> not an amount of money, and that no methodology is
> presented by which to separate out the spending
> habits of tourists vs business travelers vs
> commuters vs the rest of us. Note as well that
> the 350,000 number is more than triple the number
> that would apply in non-comparable Arlington
> County,
>
> Briefly put here, you are just another low-grade
> anti-tax data-mangling twerp who is willing to lie
> in service to bogus attempts to support partisan
> fluff that cannot be based in fact. I wonder
> which misguided restaurant it is that you work
> for.


Wrong. As I clearly explained above (AGAIN), the 28% given is based ENTIRELY on the TIEM data and ENTIRELY based on expenditures, not people. The in-/out-commuting numbers are presented separately and not quantified on a dollar basis at all in the Board's pitifully trivial "analysis." There's no need to disaggregate the latter groups since they are not included in that 28% calculation to begin with. Which as I showed vs actual numbers for Arlington vastly overstates (on the order of 2-3X) the reality of the contribution as it is.

In contrast to making your case, the in-/out-commuting numbers actually just make it worse. As I noted above, the significant number that they left out of their "analysis" is the rest of the population beyond just commuters. Which is necessary when addressing the matter of relative share of the tax paid as was the question here (i.e., the "28%" or whatever). Assuming all things equal in terms of their spending, which it likely roughly is, Fairfax County having more in-commuters obviously will make the total tax take from them higher. But the part left out is the relative numbers of in-commuters vs total "native" residents. To that end, Arlington actually benefits more on a relative basis vs Fairfax since it has a smaller population relative to the numbers of in-commuters ( ~.54 vs Fairfax County at ~.3). So the relative percentage they contribute in the case of Fairfax will be correspondingly lower.

Overall, the meals tax vs real estate tax decision works out somewhat better in the case of Arlington than it does for Fairfax given a higher tourists/in-commuters:smaller "native" population ratio and a little lower median income/median assessment.

Math is not partisan. It works out to whatever it is. Unfortunately, the objective numbers don't support your bullshit. It's not a question of being "anti-tax." Taxes will be raised either way. It's a matter of what form that tax takes. If anything, the math demonstrates that the meals tax is a regressive tax which works primarily to the advantage of and subsidizes more wealthy individuals, businesses, and other large property owners to the disadvantage of average residents. So in that respect it would be it would be near the opposite from a partisan perspective.

from WMAL this a.m. Tom Davis [former Chairman of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, Congressman, now Rector and Professor at George Mason], on the proposed Meals Tax:

"I'm afraid if you give these folks (FCPS School Board) too much money they're going to start doing some goofy things, instead of just educating kids. I'm really very anxious about giving the School Board more money sometimes - you're going to see political correctness run amok; so I'm going to vote against the Meals Tax this time."

As an example of the "goofy things" he mentioned that the School Board has hired a consultant at ~$200,000 to look at changing the name of JEB Stuart High School, even though the students and community have registered their opinion that the name should not be changed.

http://www.wmal.com/2016/09/30/listen-former-fairfax-meals-tax-advocate-rep-tom-davis-reverses-support-for-the-referendum/

Anybody with half a brain knows that the meals tax is a great idea.

county resident 30+ years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody with half a brain knows that the meals tax
> is a great idea.


You're not fooling anybody. lol

I forgot to mention btw that they just plain completely fucked up the calculation of the mythical "28%" in later versions of the "White Paper" and in the flyer sent out to voters regarding the meals tax.

As above, the caculation is based on:

(Total traveler expenditures from the TIEM data) * (Guesstimate for the percentage representing food-related expenditures) = (Traveler food expenditures) * (.04 meals tax) = Meals tax revenue from travelers. Which then is applied against an estimate of total meals tax revenue derived from county sales tax data for that year to generate the percentage.

That started out in 2013 versions of the White Paper as "...between 26 and 31 percent" which was calculated as:

$23.3 of $88 million total = ~27%
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dmb/ifc/ifc-meals-tax-white-paper_june-2013.pdf

Then in May 2014 (first reference to the 28% number):

$25.3 of $90 million = ~28%
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/mealstax/meals-tax-white-paper-may-2014.pdf

Leaving out various intermediate drafts, from that point forward to now that same 28% number has been incorrectly carried over in the text regardless what the numbers actually work out to be as they have changed over time.

$22.8 of $96 million = 23.75% NOT 28%.
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/news2/proposed-meals-tax-what-to-know-now/

They're now using a $99 million estimate for total revenue.

From the same TIEM data the lastest would work out to be $23.45 = 23.69% NOT 28% as referenced in the flyer sent out to voters and elsewhere.

^ This is the type of quality work and attention to detail that I now expect from our BOS and staff after looking at their meals tax numbers.

https://fairfaxvotenoonthemealstax.wordpress.com/2016/09/13/vote-no-on-the-meals-tax-some-figures/

The meals tax is ridiculous. Where will the money go? A transgender consultant, a school renaming consultant, and a basketball coach who teaches meditation on the side. All of these make clear contributions to educating the kids. NOT.

Math > Your Bullshit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ This is the type of quality work and attention
> to detail that I now expect from our BOS and staff
> after looking at their meals tax numbers.

You suck at math, and like your earlier posts, this one is just an overly long pile of useless diversionary bullshit.

Here is what we need...

1. The number of tourists projected to pay the meals tax and the tourist-specific projection for amounts they would pay per meal.

2. The number of business travelers projected to pay the meals tax and the business-traveler-specific projection for amounts they would pay per meal.

3. The number of commuters projected to pay the meals tax and the commuter-specific projection for amounts they would pay per meal.

Then we need to combine those three results and compare the result to projected total revenues from the meals tax. You will not be posting any of these calculations because they have not been published anywhere within your reach and you -- essentially a clueless mathematical bumbler -- do not know how to do them yourself.

FCPS cannot handle money well, and then engages in elaborate coverups:

https://fairfaxvotenoonthemealstax.wordpress.com/2016/10/01/vote-no-on-the-meals-tax-ryan-mcelveens-behavior-calls-for-an-explanation/

Until FCPS demonstrates good stewardship, every expenditure over $5,000 needs to be scrutinized. There is no need for horse training consultants, self proclaimed music experts, and meditating basketball coaches or even school renaming pundits or transgender advisors.

Inquisitive One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You were saying????????

I thought I was pretty plainly saying that the Tom Davis reference was yet another illustration of the corrupt depths that meals tax opponents will and are forced to stoop to, this being nothing new for their ilk however.

Tom Davis is a private citizen with no special standing or import generally, and specifically no expressed expertise on matters related to the meals tax. Instead of on anything actually rational, his worries seem centered instead on vague personal concerns prompted by things like gender and school-name debates. None of that has any bearing at all on the meals tax. It's just more pointless low-grade assfuck diversion. As I said, nothing new for the ilk of this group at all.

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inquisitive One Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You were saying????????
>
> I thought I was pretty plainly saying that the Tom
> Davis reference was yet another illustration of
> the corrupt depths that meals tax opponents will
> and are forced to stoop to, this being nothing new
> for their ilk however.
>
> Tom Davis is a private citizen with no special
> standing or import generally, and specifically no
> expressed expertise on matters related to the
> meals tax. Instead of on anything actually
> rational, his worries seem centered instead on
> vague personal concerns prompted by things like
> gender and school-name debates. None of that has
> any bearing at all on the meals tax. It's just
> more pointless low-grade assfuck diversion. As I
> said, nothing new for the ilk of this group at
> all.

It is true that Tom Davis is a private citizen. It is also true that you are a CLOWNBOY.

Inquisitive One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a perfect solution to the meals tax
> dilemma. If the School Board would resign en
> masse today the meals tax would pass with a 20
> percent margin. That is a guarantee.

If you were to be hit by a train this afternoon, the average IQ here would improve significantly. Now THAT'S something that could be guaranteed!

The School Board meanwhile runs for re-election every four years. The make-up of it barely changes. This is because the majority is way more sensible than you are, right-wing assholes being so fucking out of tune with the realities of ANY part of life in Fairfax County. Bunch of dead-weight dumbfucks is all you losers are!

Tom Davis was Chairman of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors when a Meals Tax was last put to the voters in a referendum in 1992 (defeated 58% to 42%). He also co-chaired (with former BOS Chair Kate Hanley) the Special Task Force established by current Chair Sharon Bulova to look at the Meals Tax in 2014. To say that Mr. Davis doesn't know about a Meals Tax is ignorant - he clearly has "special standing" and "expertise" as a result of multiple elections to represent the County and as an appointed official to advise on this issue. You can review the Task Force report here - http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/mealstax/meals-tax-referendum-final-report.htm

what the meals tax is all about Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS cannot handle money well, and then engages in
> elaborate coverups:

What the meals tax is all about at FFXU is the unbelievable stupid-ass ramblings of a bunch of clueless right-wing sociopathic morons who don't actually know a damned thing about anything at all. Useless dumbfuck toadies buzzing around like swarms of Chinese wind-up toys. What a total farce.

bnJxm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what the meals tax is all about Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FCPS cannot handle money well, and then engages
> in
> > elaborate coverups:
>
> What the meals tax is all about at FFXU is the
> unbelievable stupid-ass ramblings of a bunch of
> clueless right-wing sociopathic morons who don't
> actually know a damned thing about anything at
> all. Useless dumbfuck toadies buzzing around like
> swarms of Chinese wind-up toys. What a total
> farce.


Don't even waste your time on these right wing ignofucks who think every tax is a bad tax. The truth is that the meals tax probably wont pass even though it is a great way to enhance revenue. Fairfax county is loaded with these brain dead fucksticks and their opinions mean absolutely nothing.

bnJxm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what the meals tax is all about Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FCPS cannot handle money well, and then engages
> in
> > elaborate coverups:
>
> What the meals tax is all about at FFXU is the
> unbelievable stupid-ass ramblings of a bunch of
> clueless right-wing sociopathic morons who don't
> actually know a damned thing about anything at
> all. Useless dumbfuck toadies buzzing around like
> swarms of Chinese wind-up toys. What a total
> farce.


Spoken like a true chump.

county resident 30+ years Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bnJxm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what the meals tax is all about Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > FCPS cannot handle money well, and then
> engages
> > in
> > > elaborate coverups:
> >
> > What the meals tax is all about at FFXU is the
> > unbelievable stupid-ass ramblings of a bunch of
> > clueless right-wing sociopathic morons who
> don't
> > actually know a damned thing about anything at
> > all. Useless dumbfuck toadies buzzing around
> like
> > swarms of Chinese wind-up toys. What a total
> > farce.
>
>
> Don't even waste your time on these right wing
> ignofucks who think every tax is a bad tax. The
> truth is that the meals tax probably wont pass
> even though it is a great way to enhance revenue.
> Fairfax county is loaded with these brain dead
> fucksticks and their opinions mean absolutely
> nothing.

Except for when they vote, dumbass.

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Math > Your Bullshit Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ^ This is the type of quality work and
> attention
> > to detail that I now expect from our BOS and
> staff
> > after looking at their meals tax numbers.
>
> You suck at math, and like your earlier posts,
> this one is just an overly long pile of useless
> diversionary bullshit.
>
> Here is what we need...
>
> 1. The number of tourists projected to pay the
> meals tax and the tourist-specific projection for
> amounts they would pay per meal.
>
> 2. The number of business travelers projected to
> pay the meals tax and the
> business-traveler-specific projection for amounts
> they would pay per meal.
>
> 3. The number of commuters projected to pay the
> meals tax and the commuter-specific projection for
> amounts they would pay per meal.
>
> Then we need to combine those three results and
> compare the result to projected total revenues
> from the meals tax. You will not be posting any
> of these calculations because they have not been
> published anywhere within your reach and you --
> essentially a clueless mathematical bumbler -- do
> not know how to do them yourself.


No, I don't suck at math. My math skills are just fine. Anyone can check the math above and/or dig into the numbers directly themselves and they'll find the same results. THEY suck at math as well as basic analysis and quality control. That's why you're whining because you can't really argue the math.

You don't seem to understand that I'm using THEIR numbers. The omissions are THEIR omissions. The mistakes are THEIR mistakes. What numbers they do have don't work. I'm not attempting to find the actual numbers. I'm just showing that the numbers and analysis that they've presented are pure crap. That's a problem when those numbers are being represented to voters as the basis for their decision in a referendum. And dumbshits like you are citing them as if they real and claiming some extensive "cost/benefit analysis" has been done. As I've shown just a cursory review will reveal that they're garbage and that nobody has even really tried. I'm probably the only person in the entire fucking county who's actually sat down for a half an hour and plugged things into Excel to even do a basic sniff test. lol

The pitiful, trivial level of analysis (or lack thereof) and significant mistakes for a ~$100 million/year tax referendum by a county at the level of Fairfax is a sad joke. The data to model this is reasonably available and/or a range of reasonable assumptions could be made relatively easily. They have not anything even remotely resembling any serious analysis.

Even when they try, their anaylsis is off-point, largely irrelevant, and doesn't recognize primary sensitivities. e.g., Focusing on the 3X more net in-commuters vs Arlington as some sort of pseudo-proof as they (and you) do without taking into account the greatly different relative populations and other factors. Using their own data, tourists generate ~$13,348.03/resident for Arlington. Only ~$2,605.87/resident for Fairfax County. The same effect will apply for in-commuters. That has significant and completely different implications in the case of something like a meals tax.

The bottom-line answer of course is that they don't really give a fuck. They've just thrown some numbers together to present an appearance that they've done their review. They haven't. So stop citing the stupid "28%" and more beyond that. Even by their own numbers, that's only really 23% and vastly overstated then.

Math > Your Bullshit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, I don't suck at math. My math skills are just fine.

No, they aren't fine at all. Like your general reasoning skills, your math skills simply suck.

> Anyone can check the math above and/or dig into the numbers
> directly themselves and they'll find the same results.

No, they won't find that at all. A competent person using the proper data and methods would find a 90% confidence level for values in the range of 33-35% for the portion of total meals tax revenues that non-residents would be expected to pay.

> You don't seem to understand that I'm using THEIR
> numbers. The omissions are THEIR omissions. The
> mistakes are THEIR mistakes. What numbers they do
> have don't work.

I understand that (being a bozo) you can't do any of the analysis yourself, but the point here is not that the County is wrong, but that YOU ARE WRONG, and quite badly so. You whine about the County's numbers not because you have or can actually point to anything better, but because you are just another stupid right-wing tax-hating dumbfuck. There is no mystery here about that at all.

> I'm not attempting to find the actual numbers.

Yes, that's been plainly and painfully obvious from the get-go. You are just engaged here in partisan bullshitting. Nothing more than that. You are just another worthless fucking whiner-asshole.

> And dumbshits like you are citing them as if they real
> and claiming some extensive "cost/benefit analysis" has
> been done.

Try to follow along, moron. I am stating (simply because it's true) that "their numbers" are incomplete, and that you have attempted to use them improperly. You are a dim-bulb nobody outsider trying to sound cool, but it ain't working for you. People who know the field recognize your incompetence immediately. You simply aren't good enough to pull this sort of thing off.

> I'm probably the only person in the entire fucking county
> who's actually sat down for a half an hour and plugged things
> into Excel to even do a basic sniff test. lol

LOL, indeed! You purported "analysis" is a crock of shit. Even if someone who knew what they were doing had handed you a valid methodology (see above), you couldn't have carried it out because you don't have access to the proper data. You don't even understand what the proper data are.

> The bottom-line answer of course is that they
> don't really give a fuck. They've just thrown
> some numbers together to present an appearance
> that they've done their review. They haven't.

And here we have the actual nub of your pointless complaints -- you are just another off-the-wall sociopathic right-wing County-hater who assumes that THEY must all be dumb. Even though THEY will all end up with much better pensions than you will. Hahaha!

> So stop citing the stupid "28%" and more beyond
> that. Even by their own numbers, that's only
> really 23% and vastly overstated then.

Fuck off, babble-boy. You've done nothing here but soil your underwear. The actual problem with the 28% number is that it is incomplete and hence too low. You refuse to recognize the fact in part because your math skills simply suck, and in part because you are a worthless biased asshole to begin with.

FCPS wants to put its heel on your neck to pay for a $9,000/day music consultant, a $10,000/hour (!) commencement speaker and a basketball coach who teaches meditation.

Here are the cruel, stark numbers:

https://fairfaxvotenoonthemealstax.wordpress.com/2016/09/13/vote-no-on-the-meals-tax-some-figures/

If our anal obsessed blowhard had any serious study based on significant hard data to support his claims, logically he would at least have posted a reference to it. He has not done so, indicating he is working with nothing more than the conclusory statements that are in the basic Fairfax County release.

Let's see, we already have turf fields, Flip Flippen, Eric Jensen and Tara Brach. Add the fact that the auditor is being paid not to come to work and it begins to look like real money.

Vote NO on the meals tax.

The government should just get it over with. Just take our entire paychecks, and send us back what you don't want. We pay payoll tax, property tax, gas tax, sales tax, airfare tax, airport tax, phone tax, sporting goods tax, taxi tax, plastic bag tax, rain tax, sewer tax, water tax, unemployment tax, car tax, boat tax, capital gains tax, cable tv tax, pet tax, building fee tax, road tax, train tax, electric tax, natural gas tax, shipping tax, toy tax, drug tax, liquor tax, hotel tax, tire tax, and when you die, your relatives will use most of the money you may have left behind for a death tax. Now 55% under Obama. So what the hell? 4% on food is a drop in the bucket. Being a democrat in office has become a license to steel.

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Math > Your Bullshit Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, I don't suck at math. My math skills are
> just fine.
>
> No, they aren't fine at all. Like your general
> reasoning skills, your math skills simply suck.
>
> > Anyone can check the math above and/or dig into
> the numbers
> > directly themselves and they'll find the same
> results.
>
> No, they won't find that at all. A competent
> person using the proper data and methods would
> find a 90% confidence level for values in the
> range of 33-35% for the portion of total meals tax
> revenues that non-residents would be expected to
> pay.
>
> > You don't seem to understand that I'm using
> THEIR
> > numbers. The omissions are THEIR omissions.
> The
> > mistakes are THEIR mistakes. What numbers they
> do
> > have don't work.
>
> I understand that (being a bozo) you can't do any
> of the analysis yourself, but the point here is
> not that the County is wrong, but that YOU ARE
> WRONG, and quite badly so. You whine about the
> County's numbers not because you have or can
> actually point to anything better, but because you
> are just another stupid right-wing tax-hating
> dumbfuck. There is no mystery here about that at
> all.
>
> > I'm not attempting to find the actual numbers.
>
>
> Yes, that's been plainly and painfully obvious
> from the get-go. You are just engaged here in
> partisan bullshitting. Nothing more than that.
> You are just another worthless fucking
> whiner-asshole.

>
> > And dumbshits like you are citing them as if
> they real
> > and claiming some extensive "cost/benefit
> analysis" has
> > been done.
>
> Try to follow along, moron. I am stating (simply
> because it's true) that "their numbers" are
> incomplete, and that you have attempted to use
> them improperly. You are a dim-bulb nobody
> outsider trying to sound cool, but it ain't
> working for you. People who know the field
> recognize your incompetence immediately. You
> simply aren't good enough to pull this sort of
> thing off.
>
> > I'm probably the only person in the entire
> fucking county
> > who's actually sat down for a half an hour and
> plugged things
> > into Excel to even do a basic sniff test. lol
>
> LOL, indeed! You purported "analysis" is a crock
> of shit. Even if someone who knew what they were
> doing had handed you a valid methodology (see
> above), you couldn't have carried it out because
> you don't have access to the proper data. You
> don't even understand what the proper data are.
>
> > The bottom-line answer of course is that they
> > don't really give a fuck. They've just thrown
> > some numbers together to present an appearance
> > that they've done their review. They haven't.
>
>
> And here we have the actual nub of your pointless
> complaints -- you are just another off-the-wall
> sociopathic right-wing County-hater who assumes
> that THEY must all be dumb. Even though THEY will
> all end up with much better pensions than you
> will. Hahaha!
>
> > So stop citing the stupid "28%" and more beyond
> > that. Even by their own numbers, that's only
> > really 23% and vastly overstated then.
>
> Fuck off, babble-boy. You've done nothing here
> but soil your underwear. The actual problem with
> the 28% number is that it is incomplete and hence
> too low. You refuse to recognize the fact in part
> because your math skills simply suck, and in part
> because you are a worthless biased asshole to
> begin with.


No, as always, you're just making completely unsupported claims that you're pulling out of your ass with absolutely no basis. There's no need for "confidence levels" when doing simple math and you trying to inappropriatey throw in statistical terms to make it sound like you know what the fuck you're talking about just makes you look even more stupid. (BTW, a "90% confidence level" isn't even good dummy.)

You were wrong at a 100% "confidence level" about how they arrived at the 28% number to begin with. You claimed that it incorporated the commuting numbers which they also cite separately. You were/are wrong. You've claimed that it was based on some sophisticated "cost/benefit analysis." You were/are wrong. You either hadn't even looked at or couldn't figure out how they'd arrived at their own number. Which even by their own given numbers is wrong. The derivation is exactly as I gave it above and the numbers are what they are:

$2.852 billion * 20% = $570.4 million * .04 = $22.8 million.

^ Their methodolgy. Their numbers.

($22.8 million/$96 million)*100 = 23.8% NOT 28%.

^ Check the math and let me know if you get a different answer. You won't. Nor will anyone else. We can update that for the current $99 million estimate/same current TIEM data used and it will just come out slightly lower.

They represent that their own numbers work out to be 28%. They're wrong. It's a simple error. There is nothing "partisan" about that. It requires no "90% confidence level." We do not require any additional data, knowledge or analysis to demonstrate that it is wrong.

Worse yet, they sent their wrong number out to 100,000s of county voters as a key decision-making point for a ~$100 million/year prominent county tax referendum which makes it even more embarrassingly wrong.

Now if you want to turn to other aspects of their approach then we can. That they have not done any of the analysis or even attempted to gather the data required and do the required analysis is kind of the whole point dummy. It is not on me to do it for them. As above, I do not need all of that to demonstrate that what they have done is wrong and/or otherwise significantly flawed. Or to point out how the numbers will be affected by considerations like relative population levels no matter what the numbers actually may be. Which then sets some bounds on ranges of reasonable numbers based on other known variables/actuals for what the numbers possibly can be USING THEIR OWN NUMBERS. In fact, I'll do just that in another post.

You fucked up by not putting any time into actually looking at the numbers or doing even any trivial review to understand them; rather, as always, you just took them and pulled some crap out of your ass to try to plop on top. As did they. You both fail miserably.

This thread really proves beyond the slightest doubt how ignorant and brain dead the meals tax opponents really are!

It takes a village.. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread really proves beyond the slightest
> doubt how ignorant and brain dead the meals tax
> opponents really are!

Brain dead? OK, if you are so smart, explain the VALUE TO THE KIDS of the mindfulness initiative, led by a basketball coach and an unlicensed psychologist.

As long as FCPS spends money on stuff like that, I'm voting NO.

put up or shut up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It takes a village.. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This thread really proves beyond the slightest
> > doubt how ignorant and brain dead the meals tax
> > opponents really are!
>
> Brain dead? OK, if you are so smart, explain the
> VALUE TO THE KIDS of the mindfulness initiative,
> led by a basketball coach and an unlicensed
> psychologist.
>
> As long as FCPS spends money on stuff like that,
> I'm voting NO.


Okay then, thanks for participating in our elections. At least you give enough of a shit to vote even though you are an ignorant fuck.

It takes a village.. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> put up or shut up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It takes a village.. Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This thread really proves beyond the
> slightest
> > > doubt how ignorant and brain dead the meals
> tax
> > > opponents really are!
> >
> > Brain dead? OK, if you are so smart, explain
> the
> > VALUE TO THE KIDS of the mindfulness
> initiative,
> > led by a basketball coach and an unlicensed
> > psychologist.
> >
> > As long as FCPS spends money on stuff like
> that,
> > I'm voting NO.
>
>
> Okay then, thanks for participating in our
> elections. At least you give enough of a shit to
> vote even though you are an ignorant fuck.

If this guy does not like the basketball meditation project (whatever that is), how does that make him/her an ignorant fuck? From the sound of it, I don't think I'd approve either.

Perth ct. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason I am going to vote for the meals tax is
> that it is a great way to get revenue from non
> county residents. At any given time there are
> thousands of tourists staying in our hotels and
> eating at our restaurants, people who travel here
> from other counties to work will pay the tax every
> time they go to McDonald's or any other food
> place. It is a great tax because it is not
> entirely on the backs of county residents.
> History has proven that there will be little or no
> decline in restaurant patronage. The meals tax is
> a no lose situation for county residents.


Thankfully, I live close enough to the PW border that I can just start getting all of my food over there. This tax WILL hurt locally owned, small businesses. Not that there are many left in Fairfax county anyway.

Vote no. It's the only sound decision.

There's really no point into listing all the reasons one should vote no. Proponents of the meals tax basically cannot cite any reason to vote yes beyond the generic text taken from the meals tax referendum itself and then made up extrapolations of their own from that point on. When your leading points are.. because the schools need more money, other jurisdictions already have a meals tax, etc... you've already proven you have no idea what you are talking about.

REMEMBER TO VOTE NO

Thegrassisgreener Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perth ct. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The reason I am going to vote for the meals tax
> is
> > that it is a great way to get revenue from non
> > county residents. At any given time there are
> > thousands of tourists staying in our hotels and
> > eating at our restaurants, people who travel
> here
> > from other counties to work will pay the tax
> every
> > time they go to McDonald's or any other food
> > place. It is a great tax because it is not
> > entirely on the backs of county residents.
> > History has proven that there will be little or
> no
> > decline in restaurant patronage. The meals tax
> is
> > a no lose situation for county residents.
>
>
> Thankfully, I live close enough to the PW border
> that I can just start getting all of my food over
> there. This tax WILL hurt locally owned, small
> businesses. Not that there are many left in
> Fairfax county anyway.


Yeah, you and a few others will do that for a little while. Soon you will get over it and go back to your normal routine history has proven this everywhere a meals tax has been implemented. The bottom line here is that the meals tax is simply a great idea.

exit poll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Had the meals tax been passed in 1992 the county
> would have had billions in revenue by now and our
> taxes would be lower today. I really don't care if
> it passes or not because I'm old, wealthy and
> retired. You young fuckers have a chance to do the
> right thing for yourselves bu approving the meals
> tax this time.


Yeah not passing it then was a huge mistake.

silver diner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> exit poll Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Had the meals tax been passed in 1992 the
> county
> > would have had billions in revenue by now and
> our
> > taxes would be lower today. I really don't care
> if
> > it passes or not because I'm old, wealthy and
> > retired. You young fuckers have a chance to do
> the
> > right thing for yourselves bu approving the
> meals
> > tax this time.
>
>
> Yeah not passing it then was a huge mistake.


Yeah, cause it stopped Alexandria and other places where they did from raising real estate taxes. Oh wait... It didn't.

Alexandria has since considered raising its meals tax rate even higher to 5% since it's not limited.

Alex Andria Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> silver diner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > exit poll Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Had the meals tax been passed in 1992 the
> > county
> > > would have had billions in revenue by now and
> > our
> > > taxes would be lower today. I really don't
> care
> > if
> > > it passes or not because I'm old, wealthy and
> > > retired. You young fuckers have a chance to
> do
> > the
> > > right thing for yourselves bu approving the
> > meals
> > > tax this time.
> >
> >
> > Yeah not passing it then was a huge mistake.
>
>
> Yeah, cause it stopped Alexandria and other places
> where they did from raising real estate taxes. Oh
> wait... It didn't.
>
> Alexandria has since considered raising its meals
> tax rate even higher to 5% since it's not limited.


That's not really the issue here. Fairfax county taxes are a bargain, what you pay for what you get. If the meals tax had been implemented in the early 90s we would have gotten even more.

Math > Your Bullshit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You fucked up by not putting any time into actually looking at the
> numbers or doing even any trivial review to understand them; rather,
> as always, you just took them and pulled some crap out of your ass
> to try to plop on top. As did they. You both fail miserably.

You're a worthless unknowing amateur.
-- END OF STORY --

please explain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this guy does not like the basketball
> meditation project (whatever that is), how does
> that make him/her an ignorant fuck? From the sound
> of it, I don't think I'd approve either.

Neither you nor he has any fucking say in the matter. He at least is well known as nothing but a worthless douchebag. No one should care about one damned thing he has to say. Meanwhile, public decisions are made by our elected representatives. Those decisions are not subject to review and sign-off by any one or more examples of dick-brained assholes.

Vote NO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's really no point into listing all the reasons one should vote no.

So, you're admitting that you can't actually think of any reasons to be opposed to the County's enjoying an annual windfall of FREE MONEY from outsiders? Sensible people do not find this surprising. Meanwhile, the costs of running the County continue to increase. Revenues needed to meet those increasing costs WILL be collected -- make no mistake about that. The money could come entirely through property taxes that are 100% paid by County residents, or they could come partly from meals taxes that would be quite a bit less than 100% paid by County residents.

How tough is it for even morons to figure out which one of those would be better?

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vote NO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There's really no point into listing all the
> reasons one should vote no.
>
> So, you're admitting that you can't actually think
> of any reasons to be opposed to the County's
> enjoying an annual windfall of FREE MONEY from
> outsiders? Sensible people do not find this
> surprising. Meanwhile, the costs of running the
> County continue to increase. Revenues needed to
> meet those increasing costs WILL be collected --
> make no mistake about that. The money could come
> entirely through property taxes that are 100% paid
> by County residents, or they could come partly
> from meals taxes that would be quite a bit less
> than 100% paid by County residents.
>
> How tough is it for even morons to figure out
> which one of those would be better?

As long as the likes of Boosterthon and Flip Flippen are hired by principals and the keyboard con man Eric Jensen is hired by district administrators, I have to say no. I also wait for an answer on this meditation business with the basketball coach and yoga chick.

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Math > Your Bullshit Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You fucked up by not putting any time into
> actually looking at the
> > numbers or doing even any trivial review to
> understand them; rather,
> > as always, you just took them and pulled some
> crap out of your ass
> > to try to plop on top. As did they. You both
> fail miserably.
>
> You're a worthless unknowing amateur.
> -- END OF STORY --


I'm sorry that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about and can't back up your bullshit.

Don't feel bad though, the BOS doesn't really and can't either.

Anybody remember all that revenue the World Police and Fire Games was going to bring in? Yeah... it didn't happen. I believe they used the only data they could (Math guy's TIEM reference) and failed miserably on that forecast but ... so what? It still happened. You still paid for it. The joke is on you, the ones who fall for it again and again.

On a side note, our fearless SB Chair Pat Hynes hasn't finished her campaigning today with this op ed and guess what? It's now approximately a third of FREE MONEY!
Read on.
https://www.restonnow.com/2016/10/03/op-ed-reasons-why-fairfax-needs-a-meals-tax/

I WANT TO PAY MOAR MOTHERFUCKING TAXES!!!!!!!!!!

--angry Vienna douche

The "meals tax" will not reduce annual real estate tax hikes. It will not end school budget crises. It will not even pay for next year's school and county raises.

It is a Band-Aid, not a solution. See nomealstax.com

It will however place a new administrative burden on small businesses and will divert $99M, enough for 2,000 $50K private-sector jobs, to government.

dumb dems Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody remember all that revenue the World Police
> and Fire Games was going to bring in? Yeah... it
> didn't happen. I believe they used the only data
> they could (Math guy's TIEM reference) and failed
> miserably on that forecast but ... so what? It
> still happened. You still paid for it. The joke
> is on you, the ones who fall for it again and
> again.
>
> On a side note, our fearless SB Chair Pat Hynes
> hasn't finished her campaigning today with this op
> ed and guess what? It's now approximately a third
> of FREE MONEY!
> Read on.
> https://www.restonnow.com/2016/10/03/op-ed-reasons
> -why-fairfax-needs-a-meals-tax/


That was ridiculous. They were handing out dollars to get pennies back. $83 million in "economic activity" at best only comes back to the county at about a 1% rate. They put millions into it to get back way less than $1 million in tax revenue. And ~5X more of whatever they paid to generate went to the state instead of Fairfax. /smh

At least the damn meals tax actually would raise substantial revenue.

Can Fairfax tax other things like cigarettes or liquor sales instead as an alternative to a meals tax? Nope! State law won't allow it. Learn more about this and other meals tax myths in Invest in Fairfax's Meals Tax Myth Busters infosheet (http://media.wix.com/…/bb83af_76c3deff48e04b049954d6444caf5…). And then explore the YES! Meals Tax webpage (http://www.yesmealstax.org/) so that you can know the facts, get involved, view media coverage, and more!

Why should I vote yes for another tax when I'm working full-time, already paying my taxes, and scraping to get by? Let Trump pay some taxes first! I'll be voting NO on this one!

Clister Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why should I vote yes for another tax when I'm
> working full-time, already paying my taxes, and
> scraping to get by? Let Trump pay some taxes
> first! I'll be voting NO on this one!


You are living in fairfax county and barely scraping by?

you must be an ignorant fuck.

county man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can Fairfax tax other things like cigarettes or
> liquor sales instead as an alternative to a meals
> tax? Nope! State law won't allow it. Learn more
> about this and other meals tax myths in Invest in
> Fairfax's Meals Tax Myth Busters infosheet...


Fairfax County can and does tax cigarettes. It's also still under the state law limit for what it could charge as a cigarette tax so in fact it could raise the rate.

Quote

"FY 2015 Cigarette Tax receipts were $7.4 million and are expected to be $7.2 million in FY 2016." 

While it doesn't directly tax alcohol sales, it does indirectly from state alcohol taxes returned to it through the general fund and benefits from ABC profits through the state's non-general fund (as well as the local sales tax component):

Quote

The state also directly shares with local governments the revenues from certain sources, such as recordation taxes and profits earned from the sale of wine and alcoholic beverages.

Get a life... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, you're admitting that you can't actually think
> of any reasons to be opposed to the County's
> enjoying an annual windfall of FREE MONEY from
> outsiders?

I am in favor of any tax that would give us "free money from outsiders" and not cost Fairfax workers their jobs or Fairfax businesses their profits. A MEALS TAX IS NOT FREE MONEY FROM OUTSIDERS. If we take the County's optimistic numbers as correct it is AT BEST a 2:1 match, requiring Fairfax residents to pay in $2 in tax for every $1 paid by outsiders.

Also let's not forget that the county meals tax will not apply to restaurants in Vienna and Herndon who currently pay less than a 4% meals tax and restaurants in Clifton that has no meals tax.

A vote for the meals tax is a vote for the children and a vote for prosperity for future generations. Let's not make the same mistake we made in the early 90s when we had the chance to improve our lives and the lives of our children.

taxPerfectlover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A vote for the meals tax is a vote for the
> children and a vote for prosperity for future
> generations. Let's not make the same mistake we
> made in the early 90s when we had the chance to
> improve our lives and the lives of our children.

taxPerfectlover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A vote for the meals tax is a vote for the
> children and a vote for prosperity for future
> generations. Let's not make the same mistake we
> made in the early 90s when we had the chance to
> improve our lives and the lives of our children.


A vote for the meals tax is a vote for turf fields, paying consultants $9,000 a day to lecture on disproven theories about music, having a meditation program run by a basketball coach and an unlicensed psychologist, $80,000/month on travel, six figure administrators, an auditor on unpaid leave, instructional coaches and a lavish compensation package for a superintendent. Notice-nowhere do you see raises for teachers or anything for the kids. It is all about the people who run FCPS.

taxPerfectlover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A vote for the meals tax is a vote for the
> children and a vote for prosperity for future
> generations. Let's not make the same mistake we
> made in the early 90s when we had the chance to
> improve our lives and the lives of our children.


Plus 1000

Thank you!

Fairfax County Government is by FAR the most wasteful county in all of Virginia. We pay for our officials disgraceful budgeting and spending. Just our outrageous car tax generates over $400M a year, no one knows where all that goes. Tax tax tax tax, increases and new taxes. Shame shame. How about looking at what we're spending our current ridiculous taxes on? No accountability, no performance measurements, nothing. Good bye and good riddance Fairfax.

please tell the truth Wrote:
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> taxPerfectlover Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A vote for the meals tax is a vote for the
> > children and a vote for prosperity for future
> > generations. Let's not make the same mistake we
> > made in the early 90s when we had the chance to
> > improve our lives and the lives of our
> children.
>
>
> A vote for the meals tax is a vote for turf
> fields, paying consultants $9,000 a day to lecture
> on disproven theories about music, having a
> meditation program run by a basketball coach and
> an unlicensed psychologist, $80,000/month on
> travel, six figure administrators, an auditor on
> unpaid leave, instructional coaches and a lavish
> compensation package for a superintendent.
> Notice-nowhere do you see raises for teachers or
> anything for the kids. It is all about the people
> who run FCPS.

How about the free laptops? That's going to be a disaster. Just watch the school board try and put McElveen in there to replace Garza.

Fuck anybody who is against the meals tax. We need more money for the schools, in a few years Prince William county will be kicking our asses on SOL scores, they are already doing just that in some areas. Vote for the tax please and let the teachers do their jobs.

coach1234 Wrote:
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> Fuck anybody who is against the meals tax. We need
> more money for the schools, in a few years Prince
> William county will be kicking our asses on SOL
> scores, they are already doing just that in some
> areas. Vote for the tax please and let the
> teachers do their jobs.


Fuck anyone who is for the meals tax. We need less waste in the schools. The meals tax money will be used for consultants, retreats, travel, and administrators with online Ed.D. degrees. The money will NOT go to teacher salaries or basic things like science books (they already scotched those in favor of turf fields).

taxPerfectlover Wrote:
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> A vote for the meals tax is a vote for the
> children and a vote for prosperity for future
> generations. Let's not make the same mistake we
> made in the early 90s when we had the chance to
> improve our lives and the lives of our children.


You are so right.

We county executives and fatcats deserve more taxpayer-funded retreats to Vegas and Florida, if not Cancun and Barbados, to discuss free luxury housing for illegals. So support the meals tax!

Queen Sharon Wrote:
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> We county executives and fatcats deserve more
> taxpayer-funded retreats to Vegas and Florida, if
> not Cancun and Barbados, to discuss free luxury
> housing for illegals. So support the meals tax!


Oh Fuck you. Those trips are few and far between and cost less than 0.o1% of the schools budget. The truth is that are schools are slipping while Prince William, Arlington and Loudoun are improving. We desperately need this meals tax revenue.

The $80,000 month travel budget is impossible to ignore. Vote no on the meals tax.

A vote for this government-oriented TAX is a vote against children.

Let me set you straight:

If you vote for the Meals Tax, you are against children.

Why would any respectable Fairfax taxpayer vote against children? That's a question I can't answer.

Don't Vote Against Children Wrote:
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> A vote for this government-oriented TAX is a vote
> against children.
>
> Let me set you straight:
>
> If you vote for the Meals Tax, you are against
> children.
>
> Why would any respectable Fairfax taxpayer vote
> against children? That's a question I can't
> answer.


Except none of it is going to the children.

Ummmuggh NO!

Are you really such an idiot to think that FFC residents don't eat out ?

We already pay:

Gas Tax (on every gallon)
Personal Property tax - even on 10 YO cars
Sales Tax
Toll Road (yes it's a tax)
Property Tax (mine is $8K per year)

And the county wants more, so I am voting NO to more taxes.

I get a big chuckle out of the newbies 'round here. "It's for the children" etc.

The politics of schools is interesting. The public is in it just long enough to fall for the same shit over and over again.

Now that my youngest is almost out of school, I recount the yearly campaigns these folks have launched to cause the infighting we are actively participating in here and now. Much like the national political scene, we've sunk to a new low where the public responds to threats, bullies, and lies for short term political gain of a few.

Don't be suckers, guys. Vote no. You won't regret it.

Show me how the mindfulness initiative contributes to the kids. Someone please connect the $80,000 a month FCPS spends on travel to the kids. Do these things, I'll give the meals tax some serious thought. Until then, though, the answer is not just NO but HELL NO.

coach1234 Wrote:
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> Fuck anybody who is against the meals tax. We need
> more money for the schools, in a few years Prince
> William county will be kicking our asses on SOL
> scores, they are already doing just that in some
> areas. Vote for the tax please and let the
> teachers do their jobs.


Well said. Everyone I know is voting yes on the meals tax.

a parent of 5 Wrote:
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> coach1234 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fuck anybody who is against the meals tax. We
> need
> > more money for the schools, in a few years
> Prince
> > William county will be kicking our asses on SOL
> > scores, they are already doing just that in
> some
> > areas. Vote for the tax please and let the
> > teachers do their jobs.
>
>
> Well said. Everyone I know is voting yes on the
> meals tax.


Same idiot answering themselves.

There are plenty of good reasons to vote for the meals tax: 1. You work for the county and are hoping for a cost of living increase; 2. You are a county contractor hoping to increase your business; 3. You live in the county but own a restaurant in Fairfax City, Arlington, Alexandria, Vienna or Herndon where they already have a meals tax, and you are hoping for a more level competitive field; and 4. You own a well above average priced home or commercial real estate, and you anticipate the increased taxes you would pay under the meals tax are less than what you'd pay if real estate taxes were increased.

Notice the one thing they all have in common? SELF INTEREST. Not that there is anything wrong with voting in your own interests. Many people vote for just that reason. Just don't try to dress up a pig in a ball gown and pretend its a beauty queen.

The meals tax isn't free money, it isn't a luxury tax, and it isn't closing a tax loophole. It is a broad based tax that will hit a wide range of transactions that are already subjected to sales and BPOL taxes. Further while it may only be a few dollars per transaction, over the course of the year it will amount to significant sums. For many, especially working parents who rely on take out or prepared foods, the amount paid in meals tax would exceed what they'd pay with a real estate tax increase. And if those additional government services are that important to the citizens of Fairfax County, we can always raise real estate taxes to cover the costs.

>I get a big chuckle out of the newbies 'round here. "It's for the children" etc.

It's always amusing to see "children" tied things. If you don't X, then the children will suffer. That's always the argument put forward. It's the lowest possible form of the straw man.

it ain't the "newbies" crying that it's "for the children" - it's the devious deceptions and specious assertions of FCPS Administration and School Board shills... This is the political hardball played in Fairfax; assert, create emotional appeals, disparage opponents with invective, innuendo and mis-direction, stack the public hearings and conceal or delete opposing data and arguments - oh, and use County and School resources to contact supportive prospects. This ain't a playground for newbies...

The fact that 30 cents of every dollar collected comes from non county residents makes this a no-brainer. Vote YES YES YES!!!

NO, NO, NO; show me the basis for this 30% assertion - there's no real basis for it - just another claim without data or analysis

whoa nellie Wrote:
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> NO, NO, NO; show me the basis for this 30%
> assertion - there's no real basis for it - just
> another claim without data or analysis

It's probably going to be more like 33 to 36 percent.

Who says the BoS will keep the meals tax at 10%? The Town of Vienna is itching to raise the town's meals tax.

Another thing to consider, would the BoS ever put the meals tax on the ballot during their reelection year?

data collected Wrote:
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> whoa nellie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > NO, NO, NO; show me the basis for this 30%
> > assertion - there's no real basis for it - just
> > another claim without data or analysis
>
> It's probably going to be more like 33 to 36
> percent.


More like 20% if that.

what kind of alternate universe do I inhabit to want some sort of reasonable DATA to support the assertions that everyone loves to bandy about IKITT (I know, an invitation to trolls) - Just admit that WE DON'T KNOW! What we do know is that the money will be spent. So the rational question is, do you think it will be WELL spent? And don't spew the BS that more money means better schools - the D.C. example shows that assertion to be moot. What evidence is there that FCPS spends our money wisely? And show me real facts, not your baseless assertions. On that basis I'll consider the Meals Tax.

troll away.

During the period of time that the School Board increased class sizes and teachers received no cost of living increases or step increases they found the money to make the following purchases. 1) $14-$15 million for synthetic turf fields and in the same year spent $400,000 for additional administrative staff 2) spent $500,000 for external defibrulators at the schools 3) Spent $700,000 for Assistant Principals at elementary schools in which nobody really knows what they do 4) Spent $375,000 for a new culinary arts program 5) Spent $10-$15 million for new busses plus 3 additional positions to their legal staff 6) Gave themselves a EIGHTY FIVE PERCENT INCREASE IN SALARY. Can anyone seriously claim that this Board can be given another source of revenue to exploit and waste?

The more you give Bulova, Cook, and the rest of those elected thieves, the more they spend. They will NEVER have enough. Don't give these assholes any more tax money.

Please Communist wealth of Virginia vote 4 Seth Nicholas Comstock & Barbara Comstock 4 Congrezz
Attachments:

Does anyone really think voter approval of a meals tax will result in lower real estate and personal property taxes? If you do, then you must believe in Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and the Great Pumpkin.

hoe moaner Wrote:
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> The fact that 30 cents of every dollar collected
> comes from non county residents makes this a
> no-brainer. Vote YES YES YES!!!


You are right but there is no way to tell for sure how much is paid by outsiders. The meals tax is still our best option for revenue enhancement at this time.

perth ct Wrote:
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> left lane Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I like the meals tax idea and everyone in my
> > neighborhood is in favor of it except for one
> > really ignorant guy.
>
>
> Let me guess, the ignorant guy is a republican.
> Yes the meals tax is a great program that will
> take some of the tax burden off of county
> residents. Only an ignorant fool would vote
> against it.


Yes, the meals tax is a no lose situation.

Fairfax County does not need the millions from a meals tax. Save millions by disenrolling illegals children from FCPS and send them and their parents back to their countries. As is well evident, there are reasons immigration laws on the books, but sadly they are not very well enforced. Save hundreds of thousands of dollars if not more by not translating county documents into dozens of languages. Being so politically correct/left leaning costs government in so many areas and only raises our taxes.

Likely Donald Trump not presidential material, but he would do well heading the Department of Homeland Security.