Olde Farte, II Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> raskull Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...The system at Costco is top of the line,
> > you can zoom in on a dime and tell if's heads
> or
> > tails up...
>
> I was at Costco this afternoon and purposefully
> looked everywhere for security cameras - as noted
> before the ONLY cameras I saw are near the front
> of the store and above the jewelry (this latter
> one probably has the ability you describe).
>
> I can assume I simply missed "all the others" but,
> if so, they're not inside light fixtures, outlet
> fixtures, parts of cabling, or visible on/inside
> framework.
>
> I don't think they exist.

You might be right. I went in there over the weekend and didn't see many cameras at all. I poked around and tried to ask some questions but both the cashier and the ladies with the food samples said that they, "Weren't allowed to talk about it" per Costco management. Maybe because they don't want their name brand associated with this incident I would imagine.

What questions do you ask someone who is trying to stab you? When someone has scared away their coworkers and they call the police to report that person as armed and threatening, and the police arrive and that person comes at them with a knife, there aren't any questions to ask that will keep the knife out of the police officers bodies.

You can miss with pepper spray, and even if you hit with it, it takes time to work and the person hit with it can fight through it. Pepper spray is not suitable for a life threatening situation.

One shot one kill only happens under controlled circumstances, at range, with a high power rifle and a precision scope. It's not how a trained person approaches self defense.

asdfasbj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Olde Farte, II Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > raskull Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > ...The system at Costco is top of the line,
> > > you can zoom in on a dime and tell if's heads
> > or
> > > tails up...
> >
> > I was at Costco this afternoon and purposefully
> > looked everywhere for security cameras - as
> noted
> > before the ONLY cameras I saw are near the
> front
> > of the store and above the jewelry (this latter
> > one probably has the ability you describe).
> >
> > I can assume I simply missed "all the others"
> but,
> > if so, they're not inside light fixtures,
> outlet
> > fixtures, parts of cabling, or visible
> on/inside
> > framework.
> >
> > I don't think they exist.
>
> You might be right. I went in there over the
> weekend and didn't see many cameras at all. I
> poked around and tried to ask some questions but
> both the cashier and the ladies with the food
> samples said that they, "Weren't allowed to talk
> about it" per Costco management. Maybe because
> they don't want their name brand associated with
> this incident I would imagine.

You should try googling hidden cameras. They can be hidden in thermostats, clocks, smoke detectors (this is the most commonly used comercially hidden camera, but does not offer PTZ feature), light fixtures. I happen to know the head of LP at a Wal-Mart and she says there are over 60 cameras in her store (over half watch cash handelers). I know for fact the average Home Depot store has at least 2 camers per asile (x20-30 asiles), 2 per register (x10-15 registers), 1 on each entrance door (x3-6 doors) as well as 6-10 outside.

Why is it when these things happen the cops take their sweet time disclosing the details--like they don't know them by now.

REASON: they want the public outrage to simmer down so they sit on it---our tax dollars at work.

Now let's compare these Loudoun clowns with the cops in NY at The tODAY SHOW last week. Guy standing there with a knife.....looks menacing...even threatening....what did they do?

Wrestle the guy to the ground and haul him off to some looney hospital where he belonged.

Class act--unlike the wild west losers in Costco.

raskull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> asdfasbj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Olde Farte, II Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > raskull Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > ...The system at Costco is top of the line,
> > > > you can zoom in on a dime and tell if's
> heads
> > > or
> > > > tails up...
> > >
> > > I was at Costco this afternoon and
> purposefully
> > > looked everywhere for security cameras - as
> > noted
> > > before the ONLY cameras I saw are near the
> > front
> > > of the store and above the jewelry (this
> latter
> > > one probably has the ability you describe).
> > >
> > > I can assume I simply missed "all the others"
> > but,
> > > if so, they're not inside light fixtures,
> > outlet
> > > fixtures, parts of cabling, or visible
> > on/inside
> > > framework.
> > >
> > > I don't think they exist.
> >
> > You might be right. I went in there over the
> > weekend and didn't see many cameras at all. I
> > poked around and tried to ask some questions
> but
> > both the cashier and the ladies with the food
> > samples said that they, "Weren't allowed to
> talk
> > about it" per Costco management. Maybe because
> > they don't want their name brand associated
> with
> > this incident I would imagine.
>
> You should try googling hidden cameras. They can
> be hidden in thermostats, clocks, smoke detectors
> (this is the most commonly used comercially hidden
> camera, but does not offer PTZ feature), light
> fixtures. I happen to know the head of LP at a
> Wal-Mart and she says there are over 60 cameras in
> her store (over half watch cash handelers). I know
> for fact the average Home Depot store has at least
> 2 camers per asile (x20-30 asiles), 2 per register
> (x10-15 registers), 1 on each entrance door (x3-6
> doors) as well as 6-10 outside.


You know for a fact huh? Well, I know for a fact that 75% of the camera domes in those stores are fake and not even connected to anything. The next time you're in a Home Depot, look up at a security dome and try to find a baby blue wire connected (which is the color they use for their LAN). You will see it on the cameras at the entrance, but most other locations around the store are false and NOTHING is connected.

I know this for an absolute fact.

some observations Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is it when these things happen the cops take
> their sweet time disclosing the details--like they
> don't know them by now.
>
> REASON: they want the public outrage to simmer
> down so they sit on it---our tax dollars at work.
>
> Now let's compare these Loudoun clowns with the
> cops in NY at The tODAY SHOW last week. Guy
> standing there with a knife.....looks
> menacing...even threatening....what did they do?
>
> Wrestle the guy to the ground and haul him off to
> some looney hospital where he belonged.
>
> Class act--unlike the wild west losers in Costco.


THANK YOU!


Perfect example of how to serve and protect.

This tiny woman needed HELP not DEATH.

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rocco Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > u idiots Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > by the way, cops are not trained fighters.
> you
> > > would be surprised how many of them have
> never
> > > been in a fight in their lives. they are not
> > > trained to fight, they are trained to subdue
> > and
> > > apprehend people. its not the same thing. now
> > > military soldiers, thats a totaly different
> > story.
> > > they get training that you are thinking of.
> >
> >
> >
> > Well uhmmm....this beg's the question of why
> > AREN'T they trained to be able to fight?
>
>
> Simply put...NO they are not trained to stand
> there and fight with people. That is not their job
> and never was. Cops are trained to use their OC,
> taser, stick etc instead of trying to fight you.
> They are trained how to defend themselves without
> the other items but as a LAST RESORT.
>
> Back in the good old days you talk of, the cop
> would show up and beat the shit out of people.
> They did not fight you...THEY BEAT YOU. I could
> only imagine what people would do if we went back
> to the good old days of law enforcement in this
> country. If your punk ass kid talked back to a
> cop, the cop would smack him up the side of their
> head and then take them home to dad. Dad would
> thank the cop and then beat the kid more. If a cop
> did that now, the dad would want the cop arrested
> and would be at his lawyers office the next
> morning to file a suit.
>
> I would bet 95% of the people on this site would
> not want to go back to the "good old days".


Ok great post asshole....you still didn't answer me WHY. Of coures its not their job to stand and fight. But there aren't many other jobs out there with the likelyhood of being in a physical confrontation like that of a cop. It should follow logically that they could at least have some basic offensive combatives training (just like a soldier) seeing as they are far more likely to be in a hand to hand situation than a soldier.

They are trained to use their tools, Sure check. As I already stated they sometimes are without those tools. Cops come in direct contact with danger on a very close and physical level on a daily basis.

some observations Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is it when these things happen the cops take
> their sweet time disclosing the details--like they
> don't know them by now.
>
> REASON: they want the public outrage to simmer
> down so they sit on it---our tax dollars at work.
>
> Now let's compare these Loudoun clowns with the
> cops in NY at The tODAY SHOW last week. Guy
> standing there with a knife.....looks
> menacing...even threatening....what did they do?
>
> Wrestle the guy to the ground and haul him off to
> some looney hospital where he belonged.
>
> Class act--unlike the wild west losers in Costco.


Great post.

This comparison cuts through the BS, and puts the whole thing into the proper perspective: Competent cops in NYC vs. Incompetent cops in Loudoun.

THREAD WINNER! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> some observations Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why is it when these things happen the cops
> take
> > their sweet time disclosing the details--like
> they
> > don't know them by now.
> >
> > REASON: they want the public outrage to simmer
> > down so they sit on it---our tax dollars at
> work.
> >
> > Now let's compare these Loudoun clowns with the
> > cops in NY at The tODAY SHOW last week. Guy
> > standing there with a knife.....looks
> > menacing...even threatening....what did they
> do?
> >
> > Wrestle the guy to the ground and haul him off
> to
> > some looney hospital where he belonged.
> >
> > Class act--unlike the wild west losers in
> Costco.
>
>
> Great post.
>
> This comparison cuts through the BS, and puts the
> whole thing into the proper perspective: Competent
> cops in NYC vs. Incompetent cops in Loudoun.


Agreed!

The lady needed HELP not DEATH.

So when does this "hero" return from his extended paid vacation and get his medal?

I suppose that we will have to wait until LCSO announces that their investigation is complete and they have determined that he acted appropriately, at which point they will be award him with a commendation for saving us all...from an 80 lb woman who was experiencing a medical emergency...and for shooting another deputy.

You give guys who barely graduated from high school a gun, badge, and arrest authority and are shocked that they abuse their authority? Knock me over with a feather.

So when does this "hero" return from his extended paid vacation and get his medal?

I suppose that we will have to wait until LCSO announces that their investigation is complete and they have determined that he acted appropriately, at which point they will award him with a commendation for saving us all...from an 80 lb woman who was experiencing a medical emergency...and for shooting another deputy.

You give guys who barely graduated from high school a gun, badge, and arrest authority and are shocked that they abuse their authority? Knock me over with a feather.

some observations Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is it when these things happen the cops take
> their sweet time disclosing the details--like they
> don't know them by now.
>
> REASON: they want the public outrage to simmer
> down so they sit on it---our tax dollars at work.
>
> Now let's compare these Loudoun clowns with the
> cops in NY at The tODAY SHOW last week. Guy
> standing there with a knife.....looks
> menacing...even threatening....what did they do?
>
> Wrestle the guy to the ground and haul him off to
> some looney hospital where he belonged.
>
> Class act--unlike the wild west losers in Costco.


I am sure Amadou Diallo and Sean Bell would agree with you all the way.

Rocco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Rocco Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > u idiots Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > by the way, cops are not trained fighters.
> > you
> > > > would be surprised how many of them have
> > never
> > > > been in a fight in their lives. they are
> not
> > > > trained to fight, they are trained to
> subdue
> > > and
> > > > apprehend people. its not the same thing.
> now
> > > > military soldiers, thats a totaly different
> > > story.
> > > > they get training that you are thinking of.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well uhmmm....this beg's the question of why
> > > AREN'T they trained to be able to fight?
> >
> >
> > Simply put...NO they are not trained to stand
> > there and fight with people. That is not their
> job
> > and never was. Cops are trained to use their
> OC,
> > taser, stick etc instead of trying to fight
> you.
> > They are trained how to defend themselves
> without
> > the other items but as a LAST RESORT.
> >
> > Back in the good old days you talk of, the cop
> > would show up and beat the shit out of people.
> > They did not fight you...THEY BEAT YOU. I could
> > only imagine what people would do if we went
> back
> > to the good old days of law enforcement in this
> > country. If your punk ass kid talked back to a
> > cop, the cop would smack him up the side of
> their
> > head and then take them home to dad. Dad would
> > thank the cop and then beat the kid more. If a
> cop
> > did that now, the dad would want the cop
> arrested
> > and would be at his lawyers office the next
> > morning to file a suit.
> >
> > I would bet 95% of the people on this site
> would
> > not want to go back to the "good old days".
>
>
> Ok great post asshole....you still didn't answer
> me WHY. Of coures its not their job to stand and
> fight. But there aren't many other jobs out there
> with the likelyhood of being in a physical
> confrontation like that of a cop. It should
> follow logically that they could at least have
> some basic offensive combatives training (just
> like a soldier) seeing as they are far more likely
> to be in a hand to hand situation than a soldier.
>
> They are trained to use their tools, Sure check.
> As I already stated they sometimes are without
> those tools. Cops come in direct contact with
> danger on a very close and physical level on a
> daily basis.


Nobody trains people to stand and fight bare handed against somebody holding a knife when they have other options. Not even the military trains soldiers to take on somebody with a knife unless they have no other option. Empty hand fighting is a option of LAST RESORT.

Even if they are trained to fight, they sure the hell would not have stood there trying to fight with somebody with a knife.

Again...nobody was empty handed you moron.

After the tazer the police have all their other "less than lethal" BS...CS gas, mace , pepper spray whatever they call it now, the tazer (there were how many officers there? How many tazers?) oh and alas..the mighty Baton. You give me a baton and I'll fight a 5 foot nothing Filipina with a fucking pizza cutter. They could have picked up anything and hit her with it.

Look, I personally am for lethal force. But its like the "oh shit she's headed right for us..glick glick..shoot her ass billy"

Also because this is an Asian (could be white, Asian anything other than black) its not a big deal to some, but Zimmerman was getting his head pounded in , in a hand to hand situation, but a larger and stronger man ..shoots said man boy/ overgrown teen and now its a national debate. Man shoots possibly mentally Ill FIlipina, when he had other back up and its not a big deal because he has a badge?

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> some observations Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why is it when these things happen the cops
> take
> > their sweet time disclosing the details--like
> they
> > don't know them by now.
> >
> > REASON: they want the public outrage to simmer
> > down so they sit on it---our tax dollars at
> work.
> >
> > Now let's compare these Loudoun clowns with the
> > cops in NY at The tODAY SHOW last week. Guy
> > standing there with a knife.....looks
> > menacing...even threatening....what did they
> do?
> >
> > Wrestle the guy to the ground and haul him off
> to
> > some looney hospital where he belonged.
> >
> > Class act--unlike the wild west losers in
> Costco.
>
>
> I am sure Amadou Diallo and Sean Bell would agree
> with you all the way.

Amen brother!

If you haven't heard the latest, the "official" story has changed from "she lunged at the deputies with a knife" to "she displayed a knife". The other thing no one seems to want to consider is there could have been a language issue. You could train a monkey to hand out samples at the local Costco, it's not like this is skilled labor. She'd only need to know a few phrases and a few words to do her job. You need to understand, LCSO deputies are bored, they've all seen too many Dirty Harry movies and they're doing their best to act like him.

They probably thought because of her looks (brown skin, dark hair, brown eyes) she could have been a member of MS-13! I wouldn't be suprised if the radio call that went out after the shooting is "gang member down"!

JustanFYI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> raskull Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > asdfasbj Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Olde Farte, II Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > raskull Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > ...The system at Costco is top of the
> line,
> > > > > you can zoom in on a dime and tell if's
> > heads
> > > > or
> > > > > tails up...
> > > >
> > > > I was at Costco this afternoon and
> > purposefully
> > > > looked everywhere for security cameras - as
> > > noted
> > > > before the ONLY cameras I saw are near the
> > > front
> > > > of the store and above the jewelry (this
> > latter
> > > > one probably has the ability you describe).
> > > >
> > > > I can assume I simply missed "all the
> others"
> > > but,
> > > > if so, they're not inside light fixtures,
> > > outlet
> > > > fixtures, parts of cabling, or visible
> > > on/inside
> > > > framework.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think they exist.
> > >
> > > You might be right. I went in there over the
> > > weekend and didn't see many cameras at all. I
> > > poked around and tried to ask some questions
> > but
> > > both the cashier and the ladies with the food
> > > samples said that they, "Weren't allowed to
> > talk
> > > about it" per Costco management. Maybe
> because
> > > they don't want their name brand associated
> > with
> > > this incident I would imagine.
> >
> > You should try googling hidden cameras. They
> can
> > be hidden in thermostats, clocks, smoke
> detectors
> > (this is the most commonly used comercially
> hidden
> > camera, but does not offer PTZ feature), light
> > fixtures. I happen to know the head of LP at a
> > Wal-Mart and she says there are over 60 cameras
> in
> > her store (over half watch cash handelers). I
> know
> > for fact the average Home Depot store has at
> least
> > 2 camers per asile (x20-30 asiles), 2 per
> register
> > (x10-15 registers), 1 on each entrance door
> (x3-6
> > doors) as well as 6-10 outside.
>
>
> You know for a fact huh? Well, I know for a fact
> that 75% of the camera domes in those stores are
> fake and not even connected to anything. The next
> time you're in a Home Depot, look up at a security
> dome and try to find a baby blue wire connected
> (which is the color they use for their LAN). You
> will see it on the cameras at the entrance, but
> most other locations around the store are false
> and NOTHING is connected.
>
> I know this for an absolute fact.

This is where you are wrong. All the cameras at Home Depot are at the end of piece of conduit. You can't see any wires at all! They do this for reason.

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Nobody trains people to stand and fight bare
> handed against somebody holding a knife when they
> have other options. Not even the military trains
> soldiers to take on somebody with a knife unless
> they have no other option. Empty hand fighting is
> a option of LAST RESORT.
>
> Even if they are trained to fight, they sure the
> hell would not have stood there trying to fight
> with somebody with a knife.


You are a stupid fuck!

NO ONE is saying they should have chosen hand-to-hand combat...that is YOU projecting what you think others are talking about.

There are, and were, a dozen different ways to handle the situation and the officers chose the LAST RESORT.........FIRST.

The officers involved should face criminal punishment - I would guess some level of murder.

Here is the difference between normal posters and GFR.....

WE can understand using lethal force IF the lady was about to stab someone else or the officer (even though the officer should not be dumb enough to get in that situation). WE understand if someone was in IMMEDIATE DANGER that lethal force is justified. WE know for a fact that this was not one of those times.



You can not just admit that the officer fucked up and killed someone needlessly. You just do not have the character or intelligence to see the reality and objectively come to a reasonable conclusion. You are biased by some other agenda or just simply ignorant.

We hope for justice for the woman who needed HELP from the people paid to protect her.....not kill her.

Fools Gold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again...nobody was empty handed you moron.
>
> After the tazer the police have all their other
> "less than lethal" BS...CS gas, mace , pepper
> spray whatever they call it now, the tazer (there
> were how many officers there? How many tazers?) oh
> and alas..the mighty Baton. You give me a baton
> and I'll fight a 5 foot nothing Filipina with a
> fucking pizza cutter. They could have picked up
> anything and hit her with it.
>
> Look, I personally am for lethal force. But its
> like the "oh shit she's headed right for us..glick
> glick..shoot her ass billy"
>
> Also because this is an Asian (could be white,
> Asian anything other than black) its not a big
> deal to some, but Zimmerman was getting his head
> pounded in , in a hand to hand situation, but a
> larger and stronger man ..shoots said man boy/
> overgrown teen and now its a national debate.






> Man shoots possibly mentally Ill FIlipina, when he had
> other back up and its not a big deal because he
> has a badge?


^^^THIS....he should burn for murder.

pMMdy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Nobody trains people to stand and fight bare
> > handed against somebody holding a knife when
> they
> > have other options. Not even the military
> trains
> > soldiers to take on somebody with a knife
> unless
> > they have no other option. Empty hand fighting
> is
> > a option of LAST RESORT.
> >
> > Even if they are trained to fight, they sure
> the
> > hell would not have stood there trying to fight
> > with somebody with a knife.
>
>
> You are a stupid fuck!
>
> NO ONE is saying they should have chosen
> hand-to-hand combat...that is YOU projecting what
> you think others are talking about.
>
> There are, and were, a dozen different ways to
> handle the situation and the officers chose the
> LAST RESORT.........FIRST.
>
> The officers involved should face criminal
> punishment - I would guess some level of murder.
>
> Here is the difference between normal posters and
> GFR.....
>
> WE can understand using lethal force IF the lady
> was about to stab someone else or the officer
> (even though the officer should not be dumb enough
> to get in that situation). WE understand if
> someone was in IMMEDIATE DANGER that lethal force
> is justified. WE know for a fact that this was not
> one of those times.
>
>
>
> You can not just admit that the officer fucked up
> and killed someone needlessly. You just do not
> have the character or intelligence to see the
> reality and objectively come to a reasonable
> conclusion. You are biased by some other agenda or
> just simply ignorant.
>
> We hope for justice for the woman who needed HELP
> from the people paid to protect her.....not kill
> her.

Not to mention charges for endangering the public by firing so many shots in an area with so many customers.

Fools Gold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also because this is an Asian (could be white,
> Asian anything other than black) its not a big
> deal to some, but Zimmerman was getting his head
> pounded in , in a hand to hand situation, but a
> larger and stronger man ..shoots said man boy/
> overgrown teen and now its a national debate. Man
> shoots possibly mentally Ill FIlipina, when he had
> other back up and its not a big deal because he
> has a badge?


Excellent post.

The silence from the press and the police is quite telling.

pMMdy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Nobody trains people to stand and fight bare
> > handed against somebody holding a knife when
> they
> > have other options. Not even the military
> trains
> > soldiers to take on somebody with a knife
> unless
> > they have no other option. Empty hand fighting
> is
> > a option of LAST RESORT.
> >
> > Even if they are trained to fight, they sure
> the
> > hell would not have stood there trying to fight
> > with somebody with a knife.
>
>
> You are a stupid fuck!
>
> NO ONE is saying they should have chosen
> hand-to-hand combat...that is YOU projecting what
> you think others are talking about.
>
> There are, and were, a dozen different ways to
> handle the situation and the officers chose the
> LAST RESORT.........FIRST.
>
> The officers involved should face criminal
> punishment - I would guess some level of murder.
>
> Here is the difference between normal posters and
> GFR.....
>
> WE can understand using lethal force IF the lady
> was about to stab someone else or the officer
> (even though the officer should not be dumb enough
> to get in that situation). WE understand if
> someone was in IMMEDIATE DANGER that lethal force
> is justified. WE know for a fact that this was not
> one of those times.
>
>
>
> You can not just admit that the officer fucked up
> and killed someone needlessly. You just do not
> have the character or intelligence to see the
> reality and objectively come to a reasonable
> conclusion. You are biased by some other agenda or
> just simply ignorant.
>
> We hope for justice for the woman who needed HELP
> from the people paid to protect her.....not kill
> her.


Well holy shit...you really can not follow along very well here can you. I suggest you start at page 1 and read everything from the start.

But lets see what I can do here for you.

My agenda is getting to the facts. Yes...I said FACTS. Lets recap the known FACTS.

1. 3 cops respond to call for employee threatening other employees.
2. Employee had a knife.
3. Taser is used on employee.
4. Taser did not "work"-I'll come back to this.
5. Cop shoots 5 times.
6. Employee is hit at least once and is now dead.
7. A cop is also hit in the leg by a bullet from a cop.
8. Lots of other cops showed up.
9. Cops are not saying shit now.

Can we all agree these are the basic facts as reported and confirmed? Are there any FACTS...not opinions...that I have left out?

1-I have not seen a whole lot of information on who the three cops were that showed up. Were they rookies? was a supervisor there? Was it three fat donut eating redneck hicks? Was it a 5'0" 100lb female officer?

I have no idea-do you? And yes...all of this matters to the courts.

2-She had a knife. It is a deadly weapon. She did not do what was she was told to such as "drop it". Wait, that's my opinion as I have no FACTS to say the cops told her to drop the knife. However, it does not matter if she lunged or walking towards the cops. Once she is at 21 feet, she is considered a immediate threat to the cops. They are legally allowed to use deadly force to protect themselves. The proper and trained response to a person with a knife within 21 feet is deadly force. Especially if other PROPER non-lethal or less lethal force options have failed if available.

OC or a night stick is not proper force level response to a person with a knife with in 21 feet. Another poster explained this very well on page 2.

3-I do not think this needs to be addressed.

4-Does anybody know why the taser did not work? This is vague as nobody is saying why it did not work. Some reasons tasers do not work or fail are: weak battery-not enough charge to make the thing work. The cop missed which happens a lot. The darts did not make proper contact, which happens a lot. Or the thing just did not work because it was broken, has happened before.

We know there was at least 1 taser there, was there more? Not every cop carries a taser. I have no idea what the Loudoun policy is or who carries them, do you? Some police departments only have supervisors carry them, some issue them to every officer, most are somewhere in between. It is very likely there was only 1 taser there.

5-5 rounds are shot but nothing on how many hit her. I could go on all day on this alone. But I won't because I doubt you could understand it all and just too many possibilities to say why 5 were fired.

6-I do not think anybody is debating she is dead.

7-Again, no facts here. Nobody here know how or why this officer was hit. Did a round go though the lady? Did the cop have shitty aim? Again, just not enough info.

8-See my first and second post I made on page 3. I think I explained this already.

9-I'll address this in another post.

pMMdy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Nobody trains people to stand and fight bare
> > handed against somebody holding a knife when
> they
> > have other options. Not even the military
> trains
> > soldiers to take on somebody with a knife
> unless
> > they have no other option. Empty hand fighting
> is
> > a option of LAST RESORT.
> >
> > Even if they are trained to fight, they sure
> the
> > hell would not have stood there trying to fight
> > with somebody with a knife.
>
>
> You are a stupid fuck!
>
> NO ONE is saying they should have chosen
> hand-to-hand combat...that is YOU projecting what
> you think others are talking about.
>
> There are, and were, a dozen different ways to
> handle the situation and the officers chose the
> LAST RESORT.........FIRST.
>
> The officers involved should face criminal
> punishment - I would guess some level of murder.
>
> Here is the difference between normal posters and
> GFR.....
>
> WE can understand using lethal force IF the lady
> was about to stab someone else or the officer
> (even though the officer should not be dumb enough
> to get in that situation). WE understand if
> someone was in IMMEDIATE DANGER that lethal force
> is justified. WE know for a fact that this was not
> one of those times.
>
>
>
> You can not just admit that the officer fucked up
> and killed someone needlessly. You just do not
> have the character or intelligence to see the
> reality and objectively come to a reasonable
> conclusion. You are biased by some other agenda or
> just simply ignorant.
>
> We hope for justice for the woman who needed HELP
> from the people paid to protect her.....not kill
> her.


So if you are keeping up, you list reasons why you feel deadly force should be used and stated for a fact that this was not one of those times.

Well holy shit, so you witnessed this whole thing? Or the investigators have called you daily to brief you on how the investigation is going or what the witnesses are telling them. I did not think so. So where are these facts from that you claim and what are those facts?

PLEASE POST YOUR FACTS. Again...facts..not opinions.

In my 3rd or 4th post on page 3 I clearly stated I was not there and do not know all the FACTS. I also stated the officers may have screwed up. As cops are humans and they do fuck up.

And to answer the last stupid issue from your post, every time I said anything about fighting or hand to hand combat was a direct response to a question asked by another poster about police training pertaining to fighting.

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The silence from the press and the police is quite
> telling.


To address point 9 now--

The press has nothing new to report so they are not reporting anything. Maybe code pink should go protest. This would be something new to the story so it would give the news people something to report.

As far as the cops go--

Anytime a cop shoots their gun at somebody, there is a CRIMINAL investigation done. Here is the thing, the cop does not have to talk to the investigators until he wants to or until his lawyer gets there because the cop has all the same rights you have under the 5th and 6th. This causes delays in the investigation. Once the criminal investigation is completed and all evidence has been examined, the investigators present the complete case to the commonwealth attorney. The commonwealth attorney then decides if charges should be placed or not.

In most cases, no information will be released after the day the event happened until the commonwealth decides if charges are being placed.

After the commonwealth decides what he is doing, then the police department starts their internal investigation to determine if the officers broke department policies or rules. It is only at this point does the officer loose his constitutional protections under the 5th and 6th. It very easily take 6 months to over a year for the complete investigation to be completed.

And why does the public story change? Because the officer standing in front of the news cameras providing information right after the event most of the time only has the "facts" given to him by an investigator or supervisor. Sometimes these people are provided the information by somebody else. It easy to see how shit gets messed up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2013 04:32AM by Mr GFR.

I am shocked that the Washington Post, the Times, or the Patch hasn't looked into this more thoroughly.

#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am shocked that the Washington Post, the Times,
> or the Patch hasn't looked into this more
> thoroughly.

Maybe they have and there's just nothing to find.

Not everything is a conspiracy or cover-up. Some things are black and white.

Sometimes they're NOT after you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> #1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am shocked that the Washington Post, the
> Times,
> > or the Patch hasn't looked into this more
> > thoroughly.
>
> Maybe they have and there's just nothing to find.
>
> Not everything is a conspiracy or cover-up. Some
> things are black and white.

Maybe so, but judging by this thread I'd say there was more to this story.

Cop has a built-in Stand Your Ground defense since she was coming at him with a weapon. He may have exercised poor judgment like the other fellow we know. If she was so dangerous, why were there only 2 officers and why wasn't the store cleared before they physically confronted the target? Once the store is cleared, she poses no physical threat to anyone but herself for all intents.

#1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sometimes they're NOT after you Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > #1 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I am shocked that the Washington Post, the
> > Times,
> > > or the Patch hasn't looked into this more
> > > thoroughly.
> >
> > Maybe they have and there's just nothing to
> find.
> >
> > Not everything is a conspiracy or cover-up.
> Some
> > things are black and white.
>
> Maybe so, but judging by this thread I'd say there
> was more to this story.


You are forming your opinion from what is in this thread posted by people that have no more information about what happened based upon real facts then you do?

Do you walk around all day making strange sounds of "Bah Bah".

boobsalot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cop has a built-in Stand Your Ground defense since
> she was coming at him with a weapon. He may have
> exercised poor judgment like the other fellow we
> know. If she was so dangerous, why were there
> only 2 officers and why wasn't the store cleared
> before they physically confronted the target?
> Once the store is cleared, she poses no physical
> threat to anyone but herself for all intents.


There was three cops. Maybe they did not go in thinking they were going to have to shoot her? Just maybe that's how things evolved once they went into the store. Not like they can just call time out in the middle of it so they can get everybody in the store out. Then again, maybe they should have just called Superman or Spiderman to come solve the problem.

My agenda is getting to the facts. Yes...I said FACTS. Lets recap the known FACTS.

1. 3 cops respond to call for employee threatening other employees.
2. Employee had a knife.
3. Taser is used on employee.
4. Taser did not "work"-I'll come back to this.
5. Cop shoots 5 times.
6. Employee is hit at least once and is now dead.
7. A cop is also hit in the leg by a bullet from a cop.
8. Lots of other cops showed up.
9. Cops are not saying shit now.

*********************************************************************

1. not proven she was threatening anyone-language was acting strangely.
2. Yep, had knife--was slicing pizza samples
3.,4.,5. ??? have cops 100% confirmed this-they are awful quiet now.
6. DUH
7. proves recklessness on cop's part-could have hit a bystander
8. spectators and gawkers nothing more
9. agree-hiding what?

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Then again, maybe they
> should have just called Superman or Spiderman to
> come solve the problem.


Superman/Spiderman would have done a better job.

Yeah I think they probably could have subdued her somehow. Probably could have still been alive, that lady.

But then again probably and should have , would have are all arm chair quarterback fluff anyways. At that moment you make the decision and go with it. It's going to be you getting stabbed and no matter the weight of the attacker there is always the potential that you might not make it home to see your family again.

I mean the flip side of all this silly talk is that uhmm maybe we have forgotten that you just don't pull a fucking knife on innocent people around you and certainly don't pull a knife on police.

Maybe she was mentally ill..my guess is yes. But its her or them and in that moment "them" won.

King Dong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah I think they probably could have subdued her
> somehow. Probably could have still been alive,
> that lady.
>
> But then again probably and should have , would
> have are all arm chair quarterback fluff anyways.
> At that moment you make the decision and go with
> it. It's going to be you getting stabbed and no
> matter the weight of the attacker there is always
> the potential that you might not make it home to
> see your family again.
>
> I mean the flip side of all this silly talk is
> that uhmm maybe we have forgotten that you just
> don't pull a fucking knife on innocent people
> around you and certainly don't pull a knife on
> police.
>
> Maybe she was mentally ill..my guess is yes. But
> its her or them and in that moment "them" won.


BULLSHIT!

She was NO DANGER to anyone - EVEN WITH THE KNIFE. There were no "innocent people" or officers in any danger. She did not "pull" a knife on anyone, she "showed" or had a knife (pizza cutter) on her.

There never needed to be that "moment", the police murdered that lady. There were soooo many alternatives to killing her.

You typed in all Caps. You do seem pretty serious. Maybe I should change my mind.

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> There was three cops. Maybe they did not go in
> thinking they were going to have to shoot her?

No one is saying this.


> Just maybe that's how things evolved once they
> went into the store.

The "crouched" and moved quickly like an "ambush" as reported by witnesses.


> Not like they can just call
> time out in the middle of it so they can get
> everybody in the store out.

There sure could have done just this - all they had to do was relax and take control of the situation - not ambush the lady who needed help. Keep her at a safe distance, while the store (or that immediate area of the store) clears out.


It really is fucking simple, we will try one of your lists:

1. Lady was NO THREAT to anyone
2. Police played "swat" and fucking SUPRISED / AMBUSHED her as their first brilliant move (nothing eases a person having mental problems more than 2-3 cops jumping up from nowhere)
3. They tried a taser - ok.........try again, or pepper spray, or fucking use the "force" - there are so many alternatives that would have resulted in a life saved
4. AFTER her manic mood, or mental lapse, she would have went back to her normal self - NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO DO THIS
5. Police were aware of what the lady was doing, acting "strangely" - better bring the fucking bazooka...and why not just stay on the phone with whoever called until they got there?
6. FUCK - she needed HELP not DEATH.



Bottom-line:

Police get call of a petite lady who is acting strangely(I guarantee her race was mentioned) - they go there and decide it best to SNEAK up on and AMBUSH this woman who is not stable at the time. Then they kill her.


What was going through cops mind...

SNEAKING...SNEAKING.... I LOOK SO COOL, I TRAINED FOR THIS BAD-ASS STUFF...OK, JUMP UP ......"Bob Taser her" - ok, it did not work - OK, BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG.


Even if this woman had a 9 FOOT SPEAR at her side...there was no reason to KILL her.

King Dong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You typed in all Caps. You do seem pretty serious.
> Maybe I should change my mind.


No, just educate yourself on critical thinking and then get back to us.

Ok, so I get the call.....unstable woman in costco.

I show up and she is visibly upset. What do I do??

Scenario 1:

I try to clam her down. Maam, I see you are upset, what can I do to help you? Let's go outside and talk about it, we can get a counselor for you. We all have these rough days--you are no different than anyone else. Let's go outside and you can tell me what is going on.

Scenario 2:

I storm in the building looking crazy and aggressive. I scream at woman to drop the weapon. Within seconds I unload my revolver into this woman and wait for the morgue to show up.

Nice work Loudoun...well done.

what I would have done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, so I get the call.....unstable woman in
> costco.
>
> I show up and she is visibly upset. What do I
> do??
>
> Scenario 1:
>
> I try to clam her down. Maam, I see you are upset,
> what can I do to help you? Let's go outside and
> talk about it, we can get a counselor for you. We
> all have these rough days--you are no different
> than anyone else. Let's go outside and you can
> tell me what is going on.
>
> Scenario 2:
>
> I storm in the building looking crazy and
> aggressive. I scream at woman to drop the weapon.
> Within seconds I unload my revolver into this
> woman and wait for the morgue to show up.
>
> Nice work Loudoun...well done.


Thank you - much more precise then I could do....and perfect.

pjwC7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > There was three cops. Maybe they did not go in
> > thinking they were going to have to shoot her?
>
> No one is saying this.
>
>
> > Just maybe that's how things evolved once they
> > went into the store.
>
> The "crouched" and moved quickly like an "ambush"
> as reported by witnesses.
>
>
> > Not like they can just call
> > time out in the middle of it so they can get
> > everybody in the store out.
>
> There sure could have done just this - all they
> had to do was relax and take control of the
> situation - not ambush the lady who needed help.
> Keep her at a safe distance, while the store (or
> that immediate area of the store) clears out.
>
>
> It really is fucking simple, we will try one of
> your lists:
>
> 1. Lady was NO THREAT to anyone
> 2. Police played "swat" and fucking SUPRISED /
> AMBUSHED her as their first brilliant move
> (nothing eases a person having mental problems
> more than 2-3 cops jumping up from nowhere)
> 3. They tried a taser - ok.........try again, or
> pepper spray, or fucking use the "force" - there
> are so many alternatives that would have resulted
> in a life saved
> 4. AFTER her manic mood, or mental lapse, she
> would have went back to her normal self - NEVER
> HAD A CHANCE TO DO THIS
> 5. Police were aware of what the lady was doing,
> acting "strangely" - better bring the fucking
> bazooka...and why not just stay on the phone with
> whoever called until they got there?
> 6. FUCK - she needed HELP not DEATH.
>
>
>
> Bottom-line:
>
> Police get call of a petite lady who is acting
> strangely(I guarantee her race was mentioned) -
> they go there and decide it best to SNEAK up on
> and AMBUSH this woman who is not stable at the
> time. Then they kill her.
>
>
> What was going through cops mind...
>
> SNEAKING...SNEAKING.... I LOOK SO COOL, I TRAINED
> FOR THIS BAD-ASS STUFF...OK, JUMP UP ......"Bob
> Taser her" - ok, it did not work - OK, BANG BANG
> BANG BANG BANG.
>
>
> Even if this woman had a 9 FOOT SPEAR at her
> side...there was no reason to KILL her.




You guarantee her race was mentioned? hahaha...you must know absolutely nothing about the political correctness of our police forces. Look at half of the dark brown "Jesus Sanchez's" on the Post office wall for most wanted and you can see them listed as "white" or Caucasian. Prison stats in places like CA, that say the prison pop is 35% white..yeah those are a joke too. Most of MS-13 is listed as white for crhistsake. Why do I say this? To simply show you that when they hear "white, black, hispanic,or Asian" suspect thanks to overly PC rules, that really means zippy to a cop.

Fact is that you're a fool , but I'm sure it gets you ensensed and that rightuoues feeling of do-goodness in your veins to believe that the cops are all evil white Racists right? The kind that want to brutalize and kill a small Filipina woman right?

How about we flip this. How about we say because of so many Libby wimps in this area, the alpha male white redneck cop is all but extinct. The cops shooting this lady are just as likely to be 5ft nothing females themselves, or maybe a trans gendered dudet for good measure, or perhaps any other "open minded" minority as they are the John Wayne types that people just love to blame for police brutality.

Mission Statement:
The Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office will strive to continuously improve safety and law enforcement services to all members of our community through the Step Up Strategy of improved service, technology, efficiency and professionalism.

We will work interactively with federal, state, and other local law enforcement authorities to vigorously and fairly enforce criminal laws by sharing capabilities, strategies and assets. We will partner with community services groups and human services agencies to implement strategies that improve the quality of life for County residents, businesses and visitors. Finally, we will engage our community through courteous and proactive outreach and communication, and work diligently to constantly improve our professionalism.

Every member of the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office is expected to contribute to the furtherance of this mission.

I'm upset because the cops didn't shoot those other rude Demo people. Who cares? They drive badly and don't belong here anyway. If you ask me, give those cops a medal.

pjwC7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > There was three cops. Maybe they did not go in
> > thinking they were going to have to shoot her?
>
> No one is saying this.
>
>
> > Just maybe that's how things evolved once they
> > went into the store.
>
> The "crouched" and moved quickly like an "ambush"
> as reported by witnesses.
>
>
> > Not like they can just call
> > time out in the middle of it so they can get
> > everybody in the store out.
>
> There sure could have done just this - all they
> had to do was relax and take control of the
> situation - not ambush the lady who needed help.
> Keep her at a safe distance, while the store (or
> that immediate area of the store) clears out.
>
>
> It really is fucking simple, we will try one of
> your lists:
>
> 1. Lady was NO THREAT to anyone
> 2. Police played "swat" and fucking SUPRISED /
> AMBUSHED her as their first brilliant move
> (nothing eases a person having mental problems
> more than 2-3 cops jumping up from nowhere)
> 3. They tried a taser - ok.........try again, or
> pepper spray, or fucking use the "force" - there
> are so many alternatives that would have resulted
> in a life saved
> 4. AFTER her manic mood, or mental lapse, she
> would have went back to her normal self - NEVER
> HAD A CHANCE TO DO THIS
> 5. Police were aware of what the lady was doing,
> acting "strangely" - better bring the fucking
> bazooka...and why not just stay on the phone with
> whoever called until they got there?
> 6. FUCK - she needed HELP not DEATH.
>
>
>
> Bottom-line:
>
> Police get call of a petite lady who is acting
> strangely(I guarantee her race was mentioned) -
> they go there and decide it best to SNEAK up on
> and AMBUSH this woman who is not stable at the
> time. Then they kill her.
>
>
> What was going through cops mind...
>
> SNEAKING...SNEAKING.... I LOOK SO COOL, I TRAINED
> FOR THIS BAD-ASS STUFF...OK, JUMP UP ......"Bob
> Taser her" - ok, it did not work - OK, BANG BANG
> BANG BANG BANG.
>
>
> Even if this woman had a 9 FOOT SPEAR at her
> side...there was no reason to KILL her.


Only fact in your post is she is dead. Everything thing else was your opinion. Keep trying dumb shit.

What because she's 21 feet away with a pizza cutter that's "legal grounds" to blow her away? Where in the hell is that in the Code Of Virginia?? Police are no different then any body else their backs are supposed to against the wall no room out of it to use deadly force. But we know the drill, the Commonwealth will rubber stamp it "Justified Homicide" The Sheriffs office will decide yes or no was Dept. Policy followed. The voters in LC if not satisfied with what will come out of this should throw out the Commonwealth and the Sherriff on next election day and not let this be swept under the table. A very bad police shooting is what this is.

21 Feet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Police are no different then any body
> else their backs are supposed to against the wall
> no room out of it to use deadly force.

Really? Where is this in VA Law?

Its the sprit of the law not the written word as there is no defined written word, Its all very generalized and up to the Commonwealth to determine if charges are filed and in almost all Police shootings there's no charges. In Culpepper a officer was recently sent to prison for a bad shooting of a woman in her car. In Fairfax Co, the officer who shot the man at Huntington Ave and Rt 1 a couple years back also was not charged but the PD did fire him.

The 21 foot rule is about how far a person armed with a knife can travel in one second, hence no time for a officer to react or defend them selves but by use of deadly force by a firearm. But its not spelled out in the law.

Back against the wall, no room to escape, that's what the Commonwealth will expect of any citizen who shoots someone. And no one better think they can shoot some one because there are in your house or on your property.

The situation in Costco could have been handled with a cooler head.

If anyone ever is approached by police and told stop. They better listen up and drop anything in their hands and obey the officers commands, This woman probably never knew that and there's lots that still don't.

The police have been shooting citizens for decades now.

This type of thing happens every day by every government in the world.

That's never going away.

If they shoot someone to keep me safe, I have no problem with that.

Show me the story where they're shooting citizens who aren't a threat to me, and I'll go get my torch/pitchfork and join the angry mob.

Fallen Angel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Show me the story where they're shooting citizens
> who aren't a threat to me, and I'll go get my
> torch/pitchfork and join the angry mob.

So the woman was a threat to you? Are you really this fucking chicken?

21 Feet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its the sprit of the law not the written word as
> there is no defined written word, Its all very
> generalized and up to the Commonwealth to
> determine if charges are filed and in almost all
> Police shootings there's no charges. In Culpepper
> a officer was recently sent to prison for a bad
> shooting of a woman in her car. In Fairfax Co, the
> officer who shot the man at Huntington Ave and Rt
> 1 a couple years back also was not charged but the
> PD did fire him.
>
> The 21 foot rule is about how far a person armed
> with a knife can travel in one second, hence no
> time for a officer to react or defend them selves
> but by use of deadly force by a firearm. But its
> not spelled out in the law.
>
> Back against the wall, no room to escape, that's
> what the Commonwealth will expect of any citizen
> who shoots someone. And no one better think they
> can shoot some one because there are in your house
> or on your property.
>
> The situation in Costco could have been handled
> with a cooler head.
>
> If anyone ever is approached by police and told
> stop. They better listen up and drop anything in
> their hands and obey the officers commands, This
> woman probably never knew that and there's lots
> that still don't.


I will have to agree with you as you have a well written post.

Almost, when you say "back against the wall with no way to escape" part. This sounds almost like you suggest there is a duty to back away or run away. This is not the sprit of VA law nor is it VA law. Other states do have such laws but VA does not. VA law is a person can defend themselves, or others, with deadly force if they are threatened with great bodily harm and they are legally allowed to be there and they did not create the situation . There is no duty to retreat or back away.

Example-You are legally walking down the street. Guy comes up and starts displaying a pocket knife in his hand and tells you to give him your wallet. You then pull out your gun and shoot him dead. This is legal under VA law. You do not have wait for him to stab you, you do not have to hand him your wallet, and you do not have to run away.

I tried to keep this example very basic. This is just an example, it has nothing to do with the shooting at Costco. I am not suggesting this would be the best thing for a person to do in such a situation.

Like I said, I agree with everything else you said.

Especially the part about the Culpeper cop going to jail. The Fairfax cop should have gone to jail also from everything I have heard about that case.

But neither of those cases are the same of the Costco shooting as this women did have knife.

Great Post Mr. Mfer

That is why you hire lawyers. You little tit turds can squal and holler but the fact remains that under VA law this is ok.

I think we all owe the police an apology. They gave us some excitement, some shooting action, and took out a dangerous asian armed with scissors and a pizza cutter.

Chicken Shit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fallen Angel Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Show me the story where they're shooting
> citizens
> > who aren't a threat to me, and I'll go get my
> > torch/pitchfork and join the angry mob.
>
> So the woman was a threat to you? Are you really
> this fucking chicken?

Here's the reality, LCSO deputies answer to an ELECTED official, he CAN NOT be removed from office by any one other than the coroner or the voters every 4 years. The deputies know their boss is in no way accountable to any one other than the voters and Chapman has another 3 &1/2 years till the voters can speak and remove him from office. For those of you who think this in NOT true, I suggest you google Sheriff Joe Arpiao, the locacl government has tried to reomve him, the state government has tried to remove him and the federal government has tried to remove him, NONE HAVE BEEN SUCCESFUL, BECAUSE HE IS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL AND IF THE VOTERS KEEP ELECTING HIM, HE CAN DO AS HE PLEASES!

I've delt with LCSO & have an outstanding civil action against them. Do you really think Internal Affairs is going to rule against their own? That would set them up for millions of dollars in civil action.

OK, you are investigating your-self and a finding wrong doing on your part could cost you TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, exactly what is the out-come of that investigation you are doing on your-self going to be????????

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Almost, when you say "back against the wall with
> no way to escape" part. This sounds almost like
> you suggest there is a duty to back away or run
> away. This is not the sprit of VA law nor is it VA
> law.

BULLSHIT!

It is their duty to back away and try to handle the situation with deadly force as a last option. The officers ambushed this woman who had the fucking PIZZA CUTTER and put themselves in an ignorant position. No one was in immediate danger and the officers had many many other options available. The "spirit" of ANY states police force is to PROTECT, even when someone is a danger to themselves.

No one is saying "run away", just that any reasonable person, even with no training, can see the officers trail of mistakes and the results of the situation they put themselves in by acting like fucking rambo.


This is the best post from this thread:



> Ok, so I get the call.....unstable woman in
> costco.
>
> I show up and she is visibly upset. What do I
> do??
>
> Scenario 1:
>
> I try to clam her down. Maam, I see you are upset,
> what can I do to help you? Let's go outside and
> talk about it, we can get a counselor for you. We
> all have these rough days--you are no different
> than anyone else. Let's go outside and you can
> tell me what is going on.
>
> Scenario 2:
>
> I storm in the building looking crazy and
> aggressive. I scream at woman to drop the weapon.
> Within seconds I unload my revolver into this
> woman and wait for the morgue to show up.
>
> Nice work Loudoun...well done.


Even a fucking stubborn and illogical coward like GFR can understand the above scenario 1 as being the proper way to have handled this situation.

Yes, we know - someone comes at you, you can legally shoot them etc....not even comparable to this event.

The FACTS ARE:

The police fucked up from the beginning by:
1. ambushing the unstable woman
2. moving to a unneeded close proximity for no reason
3. not recognizing that no innocent by-standers were in danger
4. not recognizing that a pizza-cutter, even if used by a fucking ninja, is not an immediate threat
5. the woman needed TIME to realize what was happening, due to their over aggressive actions
6. the woman needed HELP <that is their FUCKING JOB, not DEATH


I will use your example - if you see a man with a knife - is the first thing you do RUN CLOSE ENOUGH FOR THE MAN TO USE THE KNIFE? No. You keep a safe distance while making sure you and others in the immediate area are not in danger. Then you do EVERYTHING, even if it takes 37 hours, to convince the person with the knife to just drop the weapon....while offering alternatives, like scenario #1 above. You give yourself distance and time to use ANY of the non-lethal alternatives (tasers, spray, fucking tossing flour in their eyes) BEFORE using deadly force.


Plain and simple - this situation was handled very unprofessionally and the result was the death of an innocent woman.

As long as everyone is purely speculating at what may have taken place. There is a possible scenario where they are doing just what you said. They enter the store and put themselves into a position between her and the masses still inside the store. They are preparing to evacuate the store. She moves toward the officers. They tell her to drop the weapon, try to taser her, and as a last resort one of the officers draws a pistol at the last minute discharging several rounds as he/she raises the weapon onto target. One bounces off the floor and hits another officer, one or two connect with the target stopping the aggressive action.

The Deputies are under no obligation to retreat and there is a possibility there were still people in harms way had they done so. Nor are they obligated to allow some disturbed woman to hit them, even once, with a two foot long blade.

Perhaps they had no intention of shooting the woman and the Deputy drew the pistol as a last resort, at the last minute, resulting in the poor marksmanship. We simply DO NOT KNOW.

All we do know.

From the official press realease:

"During the incident, two responding deputies gave the suspect several commands to drop the weapons. The female advanced on the two Loudoun County Sheriff’s Deputies and a deputy attempted to control the suspect using a county issued TASER. The TASER was deployed and was ineffective in stopping the threat. At that time multiple shots were fired by the second deputy."

Cfhcfh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As long as everyone is purely speculating at what
> may have taken place. There is a possible
> scenario where they are doing just what you said.
> They enter the store and put themselves into a
> position between her and the masses still inside
> the store. They are preparing to evacuate the
> store. She moves toward the officers. They tell
> her to drop the weapon, try to taser her,

Here is where the other officer uses a taser, spray anything

> and as a
> last resort

Waaaay too early to use the term "last resort"

> one of the officers draws a pistol at
> the last minute discharging several rounds as
> he/she raises the weapon onto target. One bounces
> off the floor and hits another officer, one or two
> connect with the target stopping the aggressive
> action.
>
> The Deputies are under no obligation to retreat
> and there is a possibility there were still people
> in harms way had they done so.

The sad thing is that the "other people" that were being "protected" most likely could have handled this situation better than the officers, with NO weapons.


> Nor are they
> obligated to allow some disturbed woman to hit
> them, even once, with a two foot long blade.

No one has even suggested this^ This is why you dumbucks can not make a valid point. No one said they should use an "air-strike" either, wtf?


> Perhaps they had no intention of shooting the
> woman and the Deputy drew the pistol as a last
> resort,

Again, "last resort", they had many alternatives.

> at the last minute, resulting in the poor
> marksmanship.

Please, no excuses for poor training - in fact, shooting another officer supports this LEO's inability to handle that situation and most likely their job.



> From the official press realease:
>
> "During the incident, two responding deputies gave
> the suspect several commands to drop the weapons.
> The female advanced on the two Loudoun County
> Sheriff’s Deputies and a deputy attempted to
> control the suspect using a county issued TASER.
> The TASER was deployed and was ineffective in
> stopping the threat. At that time multiple shots
> were fired by the second deputy."

All this equals is a PC way to say they killed a tiny woman posing no real threat with a pizza-cutter.

juyjG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cfhcfh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As long as everyone is purely speculating at
> what
> > may have taken place. There is a possible
> > scenario where they are doing just what you
> said.
> > They enter the store and put themselves into a
> > position between her and the masses still
> inside
> > the store. They are preparing to evacuate the
> > store. She moves toward the officers. They
> tell
> > her to drop the weapon, try to taser her,
>
> Here is where the other officer uses a taser,
> spray anything
>
> > and as a
> > last resort
>
> Waaaay too early to use the term "last resort"

As covered earlier, a person can have their hands on you before you can react and draw your weapon if they are within 21 feet. "Last resort" can happen pretty quickly if the subject wants it to.


>
> > one of the officers draws a pistol at
> > the last minute discharging several rounds as
> > he/she raises the weapon onto target. One
> bounces
> > off the floor and hits another officer, one or
> two
> > connect with the target stopping the aggressive
> > action.
> >
> > The Deputies are under no obligation to retreat
> > and there is a possibility there were still
> people
> > in harms way had they done so.
>
> The sad thing is that the "other people" that were
> being "protected" most likely could have handled
> this situation better than the officers, with NO
> weapons.
>
>
> > Nor are they
> > obligated to allow some disturbed woman to hit
> > them, even once, with a two foot long blade.
>
> No one has even suggested this^ This is why you
> dumbucks can not make a valid point. No one said
> they should use an "air-strike" either, wtf?
>
>

You are so much better at making a "valid point" and obviously far smarter. I should have resorted to name calling and profanity.


> > Perhaps they had no intention of shooting the
> > woman and the Deputy drew the pistol as a last
> > resort,
>
> Again, "last resort", they had many alternatives.

WE DON'T KNOW how long they had to utilize other "alternatives" or if she just ran at them. Why can't you just wait till the investigation is over before running your mouth about what should or should not have happened in a situation you have very little knowledge about.

>
> > at the last minute, resulting in the poor
> > marksmanship.
>
> Please, no excuses for poor training - in fact,
> shooting another officer supports this LEO's
> inability to handle that situation and most likely
> their job.
>

It wasn't an excuse, just a possible explanation. It's a little harder to hit a moving target in real life than it is in your Call of Duty game.

I am not arguing they should have shot the woman. I choose not to make up my mind before I have the details of the investigation. Perhaps you should just call the Sheriff's Office with the results of your analysis. You could save everyone lots of time. All those crime dramas you have watched on TV have obviously paid off.

Resorting to talking about TV crime dramas and video games is YOU projecting.

I would be embarrassed being caught looking like the fool, as you just have been.

The cops fucked up and it will be covered up.

4pVHD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cops fucked up and it will be covered up.


+1000. Just like they swept all the incidents with that MWAA cop in Sterling under the rug. Then look what happened.

How does a person start a public group to demand that all the real details come out?

Basically, a watch-dog group focused on this case solely.

Maybe, calling the ACLU or some other group with $$ and power to get things done would be interested in making sure justice is carried out?

If I lived in Loudoun I would be POed at these jokesters woring as cops.

Next time it could be you that needs these bozos to come to your aid.

Why should you pay BIG BUCKS for this level of incompetence.

Heads should roll.

Here you go:

DELIBERATE INDIFFERENCE

Akron is only 15 miles north of Canton, Ohio where the term “deliberate indifference” was first used. Without getting into the details of the civil case, the U.S. Supreme Court concluded that inadequacy of police training may serve as a basis for municipal liability where failure to train amounts to deliberate indifference for the rights of persons with whom the police come into contact. Accordingly, the Court said that the City of Canton was negligent in failing to train their police officers in first aid on a regular basis because the probability of needing to use first aid in police work was so high.


DI In Dealing With the Mentally Ill:

As the person responsible for monitoring training issues for my department, a little over three years ago I realized through reading articles and talking to people in the mental health profession that roughly 10% of our customers were not only mentally ill but also in crisis. It was my opinion that our department lacked sufficient training in this area. At the same time, the State of Ohio Police Officer Training Council reduced the requirements to teach recruits how to deal with persons in mental crisis to 2 hours of training regarding handling the mentally ill and the mentally retarded. Providing equal time for both subjects, recruits receive one-hour of training to equip them to deal with about 10% of the problems they will encounter on the streets.

With the help of our Alcohol, Drug, & Mental Health Board (ADM), I immersed myself in this subject with the idea of providing officers the absolute best comprehensive training in handling these potentially dangerous calls. The ADM Board asked me if I had heard of “The Memphis Model.” I had not. Can you imagine? I was the Director of Training of a fairly large, progressive police department and I knew nothing about the wonderful things that then-Lieutenant Sam Cochran had done to ensure that the Memphis Police Department would never be found liable for deliberate indifference.

A news article once called Sam Cochran “a Prophet.” I consider myself one of his disciples and a friend. The Memphis Model received White House recognition and, therefore was in demand by police agencies across the country. The Summit County ADM Board allowed me the privilege of enrolling in the one-week Crisis Intervention Team (CIT) training in Memphis.

The Memphis Crisis Intervention team program provides intensive training in mental health to volunteer officers. The program not only teaches the officers about mental illness and the local service system, but also emphasizes officers learning new skills to de-escalate individuals in a mental illness crises. Once trained, as part of their ongoing patrol duties, CIT officers are called upon to respond to all calls thought to involve persons with mental illness.

This course provided me with a solid base with which to build our own CIT training in Akron. I brought back the Memphis, Tennessee CIT training manual and shared it with key people on our ADM Board. Together we formed a partnership, to include the local and state National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI).

In Memphis, Major Cochran’s counterpart from Mental Health is Dr. Randy Dupont. I knew I needed such an expert here. There was one waiting for me when I got home — Dr. Mark Munetz, Chief Clinical Officer of the Summit County ADM Board. He was just as excited as I was to provide this type of training in Akron.

Building a CIT in Akron: Learning a New Language

Cfhcfh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As long as everyone is purely speculating at what
> may have taken place. There is a possible
> scenario where they are doing just what you said.
> They enter the store and put themselves into a
> position between her and the masses still inside
> the store. They are preparing to evacuate the
> store. She moves toward the officers. They tell
> her to drop the weapon, try to taser her, and as a
> last resort one of the officers draws a pistol at
> the last minute discharging several rounds as
> he/she raises the weapon onto target. One bounces
> off the floor and hits another officer, one or two
> connect with the target stopping the aggressive
> action.
>
> The Deputies are under no obligation to retreat
> and there is a possibility there were still people
> in harms way had they done so. Nor are they
> obligated to allow some disturbed woman to hit
> them, even once, with a two foot long blade.
>
> Perhaps they had no intention of shooting the
> woman and the Deputy drew the pistol as a last
> resort, at the last minute, resulting in the poor
> marksmanship. We simply DO NOT KNOW.
>
> All we do know.
>
> From the official press realease:
>
> "During the incident, two responding deputies gave
> the suspect several commands to drop the weapons.
> The female advanced on the two Loudoun County
> Sheriff’s Deputies and a deputy attempted to
> control the suspect using a county issued TASER.
> The TASER was deployed and was ineffective in
> stopping the threat. At that time multiple shots
> were fired by the second deputy."

What you don't get is that according to Warren v. District of Columbia, the police are under obligation to protect anyone. Further more the deputies showed NO CONCERN for public safety by drawing their guns and firing in a store full of people. The taser did not work, probably due to poor training. It wasn't that the taser was ineffective, it did not work and these things are pretty much fool proof, I call this opperator error not product failure! The other point no one seems to want to address is the language issue. This was not a highly skilled job, you could train a monkey to do it. Did this woman understand what the deputies were telling her? Further more the "official" story has changed from "she lunged at deputies" to "she displayed a knife". Stories like this don't change unless there is gross misconduct.

Personally, I've delt with LCSO deputies and I've found them to be very unprofessional and this coming from someone who calls 2 North Carolina police officers close personal friends.

In determining who in my department should go through CIT training, I had to ask myself what values are essential to becoming an effective CIT officer. The single most important skill is the ability to communicate.

There are those unfortunate officers who have not been given the training to communicate with the public in any situation – and would love to have it. There are also officers for whom it just comes natural to communicate easily with individuals. But, there are officers out there who not only do not know how to talk to people but, don’t want to learn how. Why? Some officers believe that hardnosed command-type vernacular is correct in all situations. After all, FBI studies have shown that an officer who lets his or her guard down and appears “weak” is more likely to get injured or killed.

But, do you know that this course of action can easily backfire when trying to deal with someone in mental crisis? A mentally ill person needs the calm, caring voice of someone who understands the illness, the medications, the “voices”, the support groups available, etc. The uniform can be very frightening to persons in mental crisis. Add to that scenario an officer commanding a person hearing voices to “stop and desist” and the outcome can turn out less than that desired by everyone present.

I am in no way telling officers to let down their guard. Officer safety comes first. It should always be on ones mind when dealing with this very unpredictable type of person. But, it may be a wise officer who can camouflage his/her “combat ready” status in such situations.

taxes are wasted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I lived in Loudoun I would be POed at these
> jokesters woring as cops.
>
> Next time it could be you that needs these bozos
> to come to your aid.
>
> Why should you pay BIG BUCKS for this level of
> incompetence.
>
> Heads should roll.

AMEN BROTHER!
I've delt with these deputies before, some are very good, most are idiots who have a gun, a badge and full athority do do as they please with no consequences at all.

How many times you plan on posting under different names?

GEu6K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Almost, when you say "back against the wall
> with
> > no way to escape" part. This sounds almost like
> > you suggest there is a duty to back away or run
> > away. This is not the sprit of VA law nor is it
> VA
> > law.
>
> BULLSHIT!
>
> It is their duty to back away and try to handle
> the situation with deadly force as a last option.
> The officers ambushed this woman who had the
> fucking PIZZA CUTTER and put themselves in an
> ignorant position. No one was in immediate danger
> and the officers had many many other options
> available. The "spirit" of ANY states police force
> is to PROTECT, even when someone is a danger to
> themselves.

Your a dumb ass and making shit up. Ambush? You witnessed this? No, then you have seen the video? No, then talked with the witnesses?

So lets see here


> The police fucked up from the beginning by:
> 1. ambushing the unstable woman

Totally made up

> 2. moving to a unneeded close proximity for no
> reason

Your opinion.

> 3. not recognizing that no innocent by-standers
> were in danger

Was any by-standers injured??? Your opinion and assumptions

> 4. not recognizing that a pizza-cutter, even if
> used by a fucking ninja, is not an immediate
> threat

Depends on the pizza cutter. You are making assumptions again. The pizza cutter I used when I worked at a pizza place was about 16 to 18 inch long knife that was sharp as shit. I highly doubt this was the kind she had but I have not seen any pictures of what she had, have you?

> 5. the woman needed TIME to realize what was
> happening, due to their over aggressive actions

Your opinion yet again - seems you have no facts yet.

> 6. the woman needed HELP JOB, not DEATH

opinion yet again but at least this is very close to the a fact.


> Plain and simple - this situation was handled very
> unprofessionally and the result was the death of
> an innocent woman.


YOUR OPINION AGAIN

97mL7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How does a person start a public group to demand
> that all the real details come out?
>
> Basically, a watch-dog group focused on this case
> solely.
>
> Maybe, calling the ACLU or some other group with
> $$ and power to get things done would be
> interested in making sure justice is carried out?


Use less. Call the ACLU all you want.

legal advice to deceased family Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here you go:
>
> DELIBERATE INDIFFERENCE
>
> Akron is only 15 miles north of Canton, Ohio where
> the term “deliberate indifference” was first
> used. Without getting into the details of the
> civil case, the U.S. Supreme Court concluded that
> inadequacy of police training may serve as a basis
> for municipal liability where failure to train
> amounts to deliberate indifference for the rights
> of persons with whom the police come into contact.
> Accordingly, the Court said that the City of
> Canton was negligent in failing to train their
> police officers in first aid on a regular basis
> because the probability of needing to use first
> aid in police work was so high.
>
>
> DI In Dealing With the Mentally Ill:
>
> As the person responsible for monitoring training
> issues for my department, a little over three
> years ago I realized through reading articles and
> talking to people in the mental health profession
> that roughly 10% of our customers were not only
> mentally ill but also in crisis. It was my opinion
> that our department lacked sufficient training in
> this area. At the same time, the State of Ohio
> Police Officer Training Council reduced the
> requirements to teach recruits how to deal with
> persons in mental crisis to 2 hours of training
> regarding handling the mentally ill and the
> mentally retarded. Providing equal time for both
> subjects, recruits receive one-hour of training to
> equip them to deal with about 10% of the problems
> they will encounter on the streets.
>
> With the help of our Alcohol, Drug, & Mental
> Health Board (ADM), I immersed myself in this
> subject with the idea of providing officers the
> absolute best comprehensive training in handling
> these potentially dangerous calls. The ADM Board
> asked me if I had heard of “The Memphis
> Model.” I had not. Can you imagine? I was the
> Director of Training of a fairly large,
> progressive police department and I knew nothing
> about the wonderful things that then-Lieutenant
> Sam Cochran had done to ensure that the Memphis
> Police Department would never be found liable for
> deliberate indifference.


Do you know what training the Loudoun cops get? I didn't think so. Good luck with this in Virginia. Oh wait, you are going to try this in federal court? Good luck with that one also.

raskull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What you don't get is that according to Warren v.
> District of Columbia, the police are under
> obligation to protect anyone. Further more the
> deputies showed NO CONCERN for public safety by
> drawing their guns and firing in a store full of
> people.

This argument is going no where. No by standers were hurt. Have not even seen a single person on TV or in the paper yet that was even close enough to witness the shooting. If you have, please post link to what you have.

>The taser did not work, probably due to
> poor training.

This is based upon what? Another opinion?

>It wasn't that the taser was ineffective, it did not work and these things are
> pretty much fool proof, I call this operator error not product failure!

I would like to know where you have received your training on using a taser? Tasers are not "fool proof". They can be "ineffective" for several reasons. Ask any cop that has one that you know to be honest. The Loudoun cops also have not said what the "failure" was with the taser.

> The other point no one
> seems to want to address is the language issue.
> This was not a highly skilled job, you could train
> a monkey to do it. Did this woman understand what
> the deputies were telling her?

Who ever said she had a language problem? I have yet to see a single Costco sample person who did not speak passable English.

> Further more the "official" story has changed from "she lunged at
> deputies" to "she displayed a knife". Stories like
> this don't change unless there is gross
> misconduct.

Are you talking about the "official story" the cop was telling at the press conference that was on the news that night? That guy was just a talking month piece. It is not uncommon for the facts or details to be mixed up or just flat out wrong by the time the information the "mouth piece" is allowed to provide to the news. The mouth piece gets his talking points 3rd, 4th , or even 5th hand.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2013 12:51PM by Mr GFR.

I have a great idea. Since some of you guys know what these cops should have done or how you could have done it so much better, then go pick up an application and join the Loudoun police. Come on, what are you afraid of? You already know the job. You could be patrolling the streets by next week since you already know everything.

NO, I didn't think so. Its safer for you just to sit back and bitch.

VEnjH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> if it was a relative of yours and the police were
> called because your brother walked out in the
> street with a knife AND the police came. pulled
> up, WALKED DIRECTLY AT HIM and said "drop it",
> your brother does not and they put 5 bullets into
> him - all in a span of 5 minutes.......you ALL
> would be suing the shit out of that police
> departrment


most of us normal ppl would be wondering why the FUCK a relative of ours would be HOLDING A KNIFE!!!!! o_0

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a great idea. Since some of you guys know
> what these cops should have done or how you could
> have done it so much better, then go pick up an
> application and join the Loudoun police. Come on,
> what are you afraid of? You already know the job.
> You could be patrolling the streets by next week
> since you already know everything.
>
> NO, I didn't think so. Its safer for you just to
> sit back and bitch.


pretty sure most of them wouldnt be able to pass the psych eval LoLz

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> raskull Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What you don't get is that according to Warren
> v.
> > District of Columbia, the police are under
> > obligation to protect anyone. Further more the
> > deputies showed NO CONCERN for public safety by
> > drawing their guns and firing in a store full
> of
> > people.
>
> This argument is going no where. No by standers
> were hurt. Have not even seen a single person on
> TV or in the paper yet that was even close enough
> to witness the shooting. If you have, please post
> link to what you have.
>
> >The taser did not work, probably due to
> > poor training.
>
> This is based upon what? Another opinion?
>
> >It wasn't that the taser was ineffective, it did
> not work and these things are
> > pretty much fool proof, I call this operator
> error not product failure!
>
> I would like to know where you have received your
> training on using a taser? Tasers are not "fool
> proof". They can be "ineffective" for several
> reasons. Ask any cop that has one that you know to
> be honest. The Loudoun cops also have not said
> what the "failure" was with the taser.
>
> > The other point no one
> > seems to want to address is the language issue.
> > This was not a highly skilled job, you could
> train
> > a monkey to do it. Did this woman understand
> what
> > the deputies were telling her?
>
> Who ever said she had a language problem? I have
> yet to see a single Costco sample person who did
> not speak passable English.
>
> > Further more the "official" story has changed
> from "she lunged at
> > deputies" to "she displayed a knife". Stories
> like
> > this don't change unless there is gross
> > misconduct.
>
> Are you talking about the "official story" the cop
> was telling at the press conference that was on
> the news that night? That guy was just a talking
> month piece. It is not uncommon for the facts or
> details to be mixed up or just flat out wrong by
> the time the information the "mouth piece" is
> allowed to provide to the news. The mouth piece
> gets his talking points 3rd, 4th , or even 5th
> hand.

Look here douchbag, I have a pending civil case against LCSO for their highly unprofessional behavior and VIOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES BILL OF RIGHTS! They came to my home at 1:15 am to "talk" to my wife, they had no probable cause or warrant, they beat the steel door so hard they dented it, they entered into my yard (through a locked gate, a violation of the 4th ammendment) and attempted to kick-in my door, a compleat violation on my constitutional rights. I have video of this incident (as does Det. Wekenman, head of IAD for LCSO) and it will be uploaded to youtube very soon. See attached photos.
Attachments:

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have a great idea. Since some of you guys
> know
> > what these cops should have done or how you
> could
> > have done it so much better, then go pick up an
> > application and join the Loudoun police. Come
> on,
> > what are you afraid of? You already know the
> job.
> > You could be patrolling the streets by next
> week
> > since you already know everything.
> >
> > NO, I didn't think so. Its safer for you just
> to
> > sit back and bitch.
>
>
> pretty sure most of them wouldnt be able to pass
> the psych eval LoLz

Amen

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have a great idea. Since some of you guys
> know
> > what these cops should have done or how you
> could
> > have done it so much better, then go pick up an
> > application and join the Loudoun police. Come
> on,
> > what are you afraid of? You already know the
> job.
> > You could be patrolling the streets by next
> week
> > since you already know everything.
> >
> > NO, I didn't think so. Its safer for you just
> to
> > sit back and bitch.
>
>
> pretty sure most of them wouldnt be able to pass
> the psych eval LoLz


Pretty sure their mothers could not get them out of the basement to take the test

t7TjY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Resorting to talking about TV crime dramas and
> video games is YOU projecting.
>
> I would be embarrassed being caught looking like
> the fool, as you just have been.


Projecting would be if my perspective came from TV and video games. It does not.

And once again you resort to name calling. A true sign of a weak mind.

raskull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > raskull Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What you don't get is that according to
> Warren
> > v.
> > > District of Columbia, the police are under
> > > obligation to protect anyone. Further more
> the
> > > deputies showed NO CONCERN for public safety
> by
> > > drawing their guns and firing in a store full
> > of
> > > people.
> >
> > This argument is going no where. No by standers
> > were hurt. Have not even seen a single person
> on
> > TV or in the paper yet that was even close
> enough
> > to witness the shooting. If you have, please
> post
> > link to what you have.
> >
> > >The taser did not work, probably due to
> > > poor training.
> >
> > This is based upon what? Another opinion?
> >
> > >It wasn't that the taser was ineffective, it
> did
> > not work and these things are
> > > pretty much fool proof, I call this operator
> > error not product failure!
> >
> > I would like to know where you have received
> your
> > training on using a taser? Tasers are not "fool
> > proof". They can be "ineffective" for several
> > reasons. Ask any cop that has one that you know
> to
> > be honest. The Loudoun cops also have not said
> > what the "failure" was with the taser.
> >
> > > The other point no one
> > > seems to want to address is the language
> issue.
> > > This was not a highly skilled job, you could
> > train
> > > a monkey to do it. Did this woman understand
> > what
> > > the deputies were telling her?
> >
> > Who ever said she had a language problem? I
> have
> > yet to see a single Costco sample person who
> did
> > not speak passable English.
> >
> > > Further more the "official" story has changed
> > from "she lunged at
> > > deputies" to "she displayed a knife". Stories
> > like
> > > this don't change unless there is gross
> > > misconduct.
> >
> > Are you talking about the "official story" the
> cop
> > was telling at the press conference that was on
> > the news that night? That guy was just a
> talking
> > month piece. It is not uncommon for the facts
> or
> > details to be mixed up or just flat out wrong
> by
> > the time the information the "mouth piece" is
> > allowed to provide to the news. The mouth piece
> > gets his talking points 3rd, 4th , or even 5th
> > hand.
>
> Look here douchbag, I have a pending civil case
> against LCSO for their highly unprofessional
> behavior and VIOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES BILL
> OF RIGHTS! They came to my home at 1:15 am to
> "talk" to my wife, they had no probable cause or
> warrant, they beat the steel door so hard they
> dented it, they entered into my yard (through a
> locked gate, a violation of the 4th ammendment)
> and attempted to kick-in my door, a compleat
> violation on my constitutional rights. I have
> video of this incident (as does Det. Wekenman,
> head of IAD for LCSO) and it will be uploaded to
> youtube very soon. See attached photos.


Very sad story for you. I'm wiping the tears from my eyes as I type this. But what does your issues have to do with this shooting? Are there some bad cops in Loudoun, sure there are. There are some bad cops in every police department. Are the cops involved in this shooting the same cops you had an issue with?

And please let us know when you post your video on you tube, we all could use a good laugh.

Oh, and why did the cops come looking for you or your wife? What is the rest of the story you are not telling us about?

But its OK. its clear that your personal issues are clouding what you think here. Your just mad because I pointed out you have no idea what you are talking about in your previous post. Its all good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2013 05:14PM by Mr GFR.

And Ruskull...just wondering since you wanted to bring your personal problems into this. Your pending suit, how long has it been going on? Is it pending in Federal court or State?

GFR-

Your are either a cop or an ex-cop with WAY too much time on your hands by the hundreds of posts you leave daily.

Let me guess, you stubbed your little toe and are on disabilty?

The taxpayers are paying your lazy ass so you can call everyone stupid on FU all day long?

You si,r are a LOSER.

get a life Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GFR-
>
> Your are either a cop or an ex-cop with WAY too
> much time on your hands by the hundreds of posts
> you leave daily.
>
> Let me guess, you stubbed your little toe and are
> on disabilty?
>
> The taxpayers are paying your lazy ass so you can
> call everyone stupid on FU all day long?
>
> You si,r are a LOSER.


Hundreds of posts daily? That's funny.

So the best you can bring is to call somebody a loser?

So disappointed. You could have at least called me a fucking loser at least.

raskull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look here douchbag, I have a pending civil case
> against LCSO for their highly unprofessional
> behavior and VIOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES BILL
> OF RIGHTS! They came to my home at 1:15 am to
> "talk" to my wife, they had no probable cause or
> warrant, they beat the steel door so hard they
> dented it, they entered into my yard (through a
> locked gate, a violation of the 4th ammendment)
> and attempted to kick-in my door, a compleat
> violation on my constitutional rights. I have
> video of this incident (as does Det. Wekenman,
> head of IAD for LCSO) and it will be uploaded to
> youtube very soon. See attached photos.

OKay, what did they want to talk to your wife about at 1:15am in the morning?
Attachments:

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> raskull Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mr GFR Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > raskull Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > What you don't get is that according to
> > Warren
> > > v.
> > > > District of Columbia, the police are under
> > > > obligation to protect anyone. Further more
> > the
> > > > deputies showed NO CONCERN for public
> safety
> > by
> > > > drawing their guns and firing in a store
> full
> > > of
> > > > people.
> > >
> > > This argument is going no where. No by
> standers
> > > were hurt. Have not even seen a single person
> > on
> > > TV or in the paper yet that was even close
> > enough
> > > to witness the shooting. If you have, please
> > post
> > > link to what you have.
> > >
> > > >The taser did not work, probably due to
> > > > poor training.
> > >
> > > This is based upon what? Another opinion?
> > >
> > > >It wasn't that the taser was ineffective, it
> > did
> > > not work and these things are
> > > > pretty much fool proof, I call this
> operator
> > > error not product failure!
> > >
> > > I would like to know where you have received
> > your
> > > training on using a taser? Tasers are not
> "fool
> > > proof". They can be "ineffective" for several
> > > reasons. Ask any cop that has one that you
> know
> > to
> > > be honest. The Loudoun cops also have not
> said
> > > what the "failure" was with the taser.
> > >
> > > > The other point no one
> > > > seems to want to address is the language
> > issue.
> > > > This was not a highly skilled job, you
> could
> > > train
> > > > a monkey to do it. Did this woman
> understand
> > > what
> > > > the deputies were telling her?
> > >
> > > Who ever said she had a language problem? I
> > have
> > > yet to see a single Costco sample person who
> > did
> > > not speak passable English.
> > >
> > > > Further more the "official" story has
> changed
> > > from "she lunged at
> > > > deputies" to "she displayed a knife".
> Stories
> > > like
> > > > this don't change unless there is gross
> > > > misconduct.
> > >
> > > Are you talking about the "official story"
> the
> > cop
> > > was telling at the press conference that was
> on
> > > the news that night? That guy was just a
> > talking
> > > month piece. It is not uncommon for the facts
> > or
> > > details to be mixed up or just flat out wrong
> > by
> > > the time the information the "mouth piece" is
> > > allowed to provide to the news. The mouth
> piece
> > > gets his talking points 3rd, 4th , or even
> 5th
> > > hand.
> >
> > Look here douchbag, I have a pending civil case
> > against LCSO for their highly unprofessional
> > behavior and VIOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES
> BILL
> > OF RIGHTS! They came to my home at 1:15 am to
> > "talk" to my wife, they had no probable cause
> or
> > warrant, they beat the steel door so hard they
> > dented it, they entered into my yard (through a
> > locked gate, a violation of the 4th ammendment)
> > and attempted to kick-in my door, a compleat
> > violation on my constitutional rights. I have
> > video of this incident (as does Det. Wekenman,
> > head of IAD for LCSO) and it will be uploaded
> to
> > youtube very soon. See attached photos.
>
>
> Very sad story for you. I'm wiping the tears from
> my eyes as I type this. But what does your issues
> have to do with this shooting? Are there some bad
> cops in Loudoun, sure there are. There are some
> bad cops in every police department. Are the cops
> involved in this shooting the same cops you had an
> issue with?
>
> And please let us know when you post your video on
> you tube, we all could use a good laugh.
>
> Oh, and why did the cops come looking for you or
> your wife? What is the rest of the story you are
> not telling us about?
>
> But its OK. its clear that your personal issues
> are clouding what you think here. Your just mad
> because I pointed out you have no idea what you
> are talking about in your previous post. Its all
> good.

The cops repeatedly state in my videos they want to "talk" to my wife, they could have waited till the next day. Thay came at us with such force, anger and beligerance that my wife, my 13 year old and my neighbors were scared to death. Look at the photos, there are foot prints on my door from where they attemped to force their way in, they did not have "reasonable cause" (this FACT was confirmed by Det. Wekenman of LCSO IAD) nor did they have a warrant. I not only had the video camera rolling, I also had my Sig loaded with Black Tallons, ready to stop anyone comming through my door illegaly. Why are you taking up for these scum bags? THEY DO NOT RESPECT THE CONSTITUTION OF THE THE UNITED STATES! Why would anyone take-up for someone who does not respect the US Constitutiuon unless you are a total communist scum-bag! I bet you voted for Obama!

Further more do you live in Loudoun? I doubt it. The deputies here ARE poorly trained. I count Sgt. Chad Calloway, Corpral Gaston Lopez (Goldsboro, NC) and Corpral Joe Kirby (Alex. VA) as close personal friends, I've had convesations with them about my encounters with LCSO and they have said they are embarrised to hear about the behavior of LCSO deputies.

You won't get a laugh when I post my videos to youtube, YOU'LL SHUT YOUR MOUTH, TUCK YOUR TAIL BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AND STOP TAKING UP FOR COPS WHO ARE OUT OF CONTROL, CLEARLY DO NOT RESPECT THE CONSTITUTION AND OPPERATE OUTSIDE OF THE LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shut your pie hole.

raskull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The cops repeatedly state in my videos they want
> to "talk" to my wife, they could have waited till
> the next day. Thay came at us with such force,
> anger and beligerance that my wife, my 13 year old
> and my neighbors were scared to death. Look at the
> photos, there are foot prints on my door from
> where they attemped to force their way in, they
> did not have "reasonable cause" (this FACT was
> confirmed by Det. Wekenman of LCSO IAD) nor did
> they have a warrant. I not only had the video
> camera rolling, I also had my Sig loaded with
> Black Tallons, ready to stop anyone comming
> through my door illegaly. Why are you taking up
> for these scum bags? THEY DO NOT RESPECT THE
> CONSTITUTION OF THE THE UNITED STATES! Why would
> anyone take-up for someone who does not respect
> the US Constitutiuon unless you are a total
> communist scum-bag! I bet you voted for Obama!
>
> Further more do you live in Loudoun? I doubt it.
> The deputies here ARE poorly trained. I count Sgt.
> Chad Calloway, Corpral Gaston Lopez (Goldsboro,
> NC) and Corpral Joe Kirby (Alex. VA) as close
> personal friends, I've had convesations with them
> about my encounters with LCSO and they have said
> they are embarrised to hear about the behavior of
> LCSO deputies.
>
You won't get a laugh when I post my videos to
> youtube, YOU'LL SHUT YOUR MOUTH, TUCK YOUR TAIL
> BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AND STOP TAKING UP FOR COPS WHO
> ARE OUT OF CONTROL, CLEARLY DO NOT RESPECT THE
> CONSTITUTION AND OPPERATE OUTSIDE OF THE
> LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Shut your pie hole.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9QL9o-DKnk

Thanks for posting that video, I had trouble falling asleep but just got up from a nice nap. I cant wait for the Loudon County video, Im sure it will be just as exciting

Raskull....go back and read what I posted. I never said what happened at your house was right or wrong. I even said there are some bad cops everywhere and in every department.

BUT...whatever happened at your house has nothing to do with the shooting at Costco. And I am not sticking up for them, I am just not sending them off to the electric chair either. What I have said all along is that most of the posts here are from people that have no idea what they are talking about and did not see a gosh darn thing. If pointing out bullshit posted by others is sticking up for somebody then I guess I am guilty of sticking up for them after all. I like facts and then make my own opinion upon facts. There are very few facts in this thread to what happened. Lots of opinions from people who were not even there.

You are a perfect example. You have issues with the Loudoun Police because you have had issues with some of them in the past. You have no more facts then what the news posted but yet you think these officers did something wrong. Yet you have no facts to back this up. You are just basing it upon your own opinions.

I said way back on page three that maybe they did screw up. But maybe they didn't. I have trust in the system. Some times the system does not work but most of the time it does. And people may not always agree with the systems out come but then again that's their opinion.

raskull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > raskull Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> The cops repeatedly state in my videos they want
> to "talk" to my wife, they could have waited till
> the next day.

You still haven't said why the police were at your house wanting to talk to you at 1:15.

> they did not have "reasonable cause" (this FACT was
> confirmed by Det. Wekenman of LCSO IAD)

What the hell is "reasonable cause"?

> I also had my Sig loaded with Black Tallons

Dude..buy some new ammo. Black Tallons were big and scary in the early 90's but bullet design has come so much further since the 90's.

>THEY DO NOT RESPECT THE
> CONSTITUTION OF THE THE UNITED STATES! Why would
> anyone take-up for someone who does not respect
> the US Constitutiuon unless you are a total
> communist scum-bag! I bet you voted for Obama!

I actually do like the constitution. I have spent years reading about it and studying it. I know enough even that what you speak of is not in the constitution. Its in the Bill of Rights.

> You won't get a laugh when I post my videos to
> youtube, YOU'LL SHUT YOUR MOUTH.

I am going to laugh my ass off if I ever see your video. I laugh my ass off at stupid police videos all the time along with other stupid videos. Why, because they are funny. Stupid cops mixed with stupid people make some of the funniest videos.

> CLEARLY DO NOT RESPECT THE
> CONSTITUTION AND OPPERATE OUTSIDE OF THE
> LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are so right. I operate way outside the law. I was speeding today down the Fairfax county parkway. I may have even been following to close to slow ass drivers in the left lane and cutting them off when I went around them. I may have even flipped off some ass hole dump truck driver for driving so fucking slow.

And to bring Obama into this? You must be really running out of material. I guess you can just go back to telling me to fuck off and calling me names.

You mad yet?

raskull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > raskull Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Mr GFR Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > raskull Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > What you don't get is that according to
> > > Warren
> > > > v.
> > > > > District of Columbia, the police are
> under
> > > > > obligation to protect anyone. Further
> more
> > > the
> > > > > deputies showed NO CONCERN for public
> > safety
> > > by
> > > > > drawing their guns and firing in a store
> > full
> > > > of
> > > > > people.
> > > >
> > > > This argument is going no where. No by
> > standers
> > > > were hurt. Have not even seen a single
> person
> > > on
> > > > TV or in the paper yet that was even close
> > > enough
> > > > to witness the shooting. If you have,
> please
> > > post
> > > > link to what you have.
> > > >
> > > > >The taser did not work, probably due to
> > > > > poor training.
> > > >
> > > > This is based upon what? Another opinion?
> > > >
> > > > >It wasn't that the taser was ineffective,
> it
> > > did
> > > > not work and these things are
> > > > > pretty much fool proof, I call this
> > operator
> > > > error not product failure!
> > > >
> > > > I would like to know where you have
> received
> > > your
> > > > training on using a taser? Tasers are not
> > "fool
> > > > proof". They can be "ineffective" for
> several
> > > > reasons. Ask any cop that has one that you
> > know
> > > to
> > > > be honest. The Loudoun cops also have not
> > said
> > > > what the "failure" was with the taser.
> > > >
> > > > > The other point no one
> > > > > seems to want to address is the language
> > > issue.
> > > > > This was not a highly skilled job, you
> > could
> > > > train
> > > > > a monkey to do it. Did this woman
> > understand
> > > > what
> > > > > the deputies were telling her?
> > > >
> > > > Who ever said she had a language problem? I
> > > have
> > > > yet to see a single Costco sample person
> who
> > > did
> > > > not speak passable English.
> > > >
> > > > > Further more the "official" story has
> > changed
> > > > from "she lunged at
> > > > > deputies" to "she displayed a knife".
> > Stories
> > > > like
> > > > > this don't change unless there is gross
> > > > > misconduct.
> > > >
> > > > Are you talking about the "official story"
> > the
> > > cop
> > > > was telling at the press conference that
> was
> > on
> > > > the news that night? That guy was just a
> > > talking
> > > > month piece. It is not uncommon for the
> facts
> > > or
> > > > details to be mixed up or just flat out
> wrong
> > > by
> > > > the time the information the "mouth piece"
> is
> > > > allowed to provide to the news. The mouth
> > piece
> > > > gets his talking points 3rd, 4th , or even
> > 5th
> > > > hand.
> > >
> > > Look here douchbag, I have a pending civil
> case
> > > against LCSO for their highly unprofessional
> > > behavior and VIOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES
> > BILL
> > > OF RIGHTS! They came to my home at 1:15 am to
> > > "talk" to my wife, they had no probable cause
> > or
> > > warrant, they beat the steel door so hard
> they
> > > dented it, they entered into my yard (through
> a
> > > locked gate, a violation of the 4th
> ammendment)
> > > and attempted to kick-in my door, a compleat
> > > violation on my constitutional rights. I have
> > > video of this incident (as does Det.
> Wekenman,
> > > head of IAD for LCSO) and it will be uploaded
> > to
> > > youtube very soon. See attached photos.
> >
> >
> > Very sad story for you. I'm wiping the tears
> from
> > my eyes as I type this. But what does your
> issues
> > have to do with this shooting? Are there some
> bad
> > cops in Loudoun, sure there are. There are some
> > bad cops in every police department. Are the
> cops
> > involved in this shooting the same cops you had
> an
> > issue with?
> >
> > And please let us know when you post your video
> on
> > you tube, we all could use a good laugh.
> >
> > Oh, and why did the cops come looking for you
> or
> > your wife? What is the rest of the story you
> are
> > not telling us about?
> >
> > But its OK. its clear that your personal issues
> > are clouding what you think here. Your just mad
> > because I pointed out you have no idea what you
> > are talking about in your previous post. Its
> all
> > good.
>
> The cops repeatedly state in my videos they want
> to "talk" to my wife, they could have waited till
> the next day. Thay came at us with such force,
> anger and beligerance that my wife, my 13 year old
> and my neighbors were scared to death. Look at the
> photos, there are foot prints on my door from
> where they attemped to force their way in, they
> did not have "reasonable cause" (this FACT was
> confirmed by Det. Wekenman of LCSO IAD) nor did
> they have a warrant. I not only had the video
> camera rolling, I also had my Sig loaded with
> Black Tallons, ready to stop anyone comming
> through my door illegaly. Why are you taking up
> for these scum bags? THEY DO NOT RESPECT THE
> CONSTITUTION OF THE THE UNITED STATES! Why would
> anyone take-up for someone who does not respect
> the US Constitutiuon unless you are a total
> communist scum-bag! I bet you voted for Obama!
>
> Further more do you live in Loudoun? I doubt it.
> The deputies here ARE poorly trained. I count Sgt.
> Chad Calloway, Corpral Gaston Lopez (Goldsboro,
> NC) and Corpral Joe Kirby (Alex. VA) as close
> personal friends, I've had convesations with them
> about my encounters with LCSO and they have said
> they are embarrised to hear about the behavior of
> LCSO deputies.
>
> You won't get a laugh when I post my videos to
> youtube, YOU'LL SHUT YOUR MOUTH, TUCK YOUR TAIL
> BETWEEN YOUR LEGS AND STOP TAKING UP FOR COPS WHO
> ARE OUT OF CONTROL, CLEARLY DO NOT RESPECT THE
> CONSTITUTION AND OPPERATE OUTSIDE OF THE
> LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Shut your pie hole.

Again, what did they want to talk to your wife about at 1:15am in the morning? If it concerned public safety (if your wife had some sort of crucial information) then they absolutely have the right to kick down your door. But I don't think that's the situation right? Does your wife have information on someone or something? What did they want to know?

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And Ruskull...just wondering since you wanted to
> bring your personal problems into this. Your
> pending suit, how long has it been going on? Is it
> pending in Federal court or State?

I'm inerterjecting my issues because idiots like you believe everything they are fed. As to my case, I'm still waiting on the IAD report before anything goes forward.

Here's an interesting point as to your ignorance; do you own your home??? If you do, why are you listed on the deed as tenant? I sugest you look-up tenant in the dictionary.
Here's another fun one for you, the IRS is an agency of the Dept of Tresuary, the Dept of Treasury is an agency of the IMF and the IMF is an agency of the UN. So the reality of this world is you pay taxes to the UN.
Do the reaserch, wake-up! Here's a starting point for you; Black's Law Dictionary 6th edition, page 816 or search Diversified Metal Products v. IRS etal.

You are just another of the sheeple who believes everything any government agency tells you.

Monk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> raskull Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Look here douchbag, I have a pending civil case
> > against LCSO for their highly unprofessional
> > behavior and VIOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES
> BILL
> > OF RIGHTS! They came to my home at 1:15 am to
> > "talk" to my wife, they had no probable cause
> or
> > warrant, they beat the steel door so hard they
> > dented it, they entered into my yard (through a
> > locked gate, a violation of the 4th ammendment)
> > and attempted to kick-in my door, a compleat
> > violation on my constitutional rights. I have
> > video of this incident (as does Det. Wekenman,
> > head of IAD for LCSO) and it will be uploaded
> to
> > youtube very soon. See attached photos.
>
> OKay, what did they want to talk to your wife
> about at 1:15am in the morning?

She called and confronted a neighbor at 9pm over the fact that she caught our teenager doing something he shouldn't have been doing and she should have been the "friend & good neighbor" she claims she is and called us to tell us about the behaviour of our child. That neighbor called the LCSO, drunk at 1am to complain.

I love the criticism about posters speculating about what really did happen.

What else should we do given the complete SILENCE from Loudoun?

It sure would be nice if they would disclose to the people paying the bills what the hell really happened.

raskull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Monk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > raskull Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Look here douchbag, I have a pending civil
> case
> > > against LCSO for their highly unprofessional
> > > behavior and VIOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES
> > BILL
> > > OF RIGHTS! They came to my home at 1:15 am to
> > > "talk" to my wife, they had no probable cause
> > or
> > > warrant, they beat the steel door so hard
> they
> > > dented it, they entered into my yard (through
> a
> > > locked gate, a violation of the 4th
> ammendment)
> > > and attempted to kick-in my door, a compleat
> > > violation on my constitutional rights. I have
> > > video of this incident (as does Det.
> Wekenman,
> > > head of IAD for LCSO) and it will be uploaded
> > to
> > > youtube very soon. See attached photos.
> >
> > OKay, what did they want to talk to your wife
> > about at 1:15am in the morning?
>
> She called and confronted a neighbor at 9pm over
> the fact that she caught our teenager doing
> something he shouldn't have been doing and she
> should have been the "friend & good neighbor" she
> claims she is and called us to tell us about the
> behaviour of our child. That neighbor called the
> LCSO, drunk at 1am to complain.

Okay, now what was your son doing? (per the neighbor).

raskull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr GFR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And Ruskull...just wondering since you wanted
> to
> > bring your personal problems into this. Your
> > pending suit, how long has it been going on? Is
> it
> > pending in Federal court or State?
>
> I'm inerterjecting my issues because idiots like
> you believe everything they are fed. As to my
> case, I'm still waiting on the IAD report before
> anything goes forward.
>
> Here's an interesting point as to your ignorance;
> do you own your home??? If you do, why are you
> listed on the deed as tenant? I sugest you look-up
> tenant in the dictionary.
> Here's another fun one for you, the IRS is an
> agency of the Dept of Tresuary, the Dept of
> Treasury is an agency of the IMF and the IMF is an
> agency of the UN. So the reality of this world is
> you pay taxes to the UN.
> Do the reaserch, wake-up! Here's a starting point
> for you; Black's Law Dictionary 6th edition, page
> 816 or search Diversified Metal Products v. IRS
> etal.
>
> You are just another of the sheeple who believes
> everything any government agency tells you.


Dude..you just went full blown retard with this post. You seemed like a pretty normal person until now. I think we can conclude you are a little nutty now.

Oh well, lets just sweep this under the rug shall we?

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Raskull....go back and read what I posted. I never
> said what happened at your house was right or
> wrong. I even said there are some bad cops
> everywhere and in every department.
>
> BUT...whatever happened at your house has nothing
> to do with the shooting at Costco. And I am not
> sticking up for them, I am just not sending them
> off to the electric chair either. What I have said
> all along is that most of the posts here are from
> people that have no idea what they are talking
> about and did not see a gosh darn thing. If
> pointing out bullshit posted by others is sticking
> up for somebody then I guess I am guilty of
> sticking up for them after all. I like facts and
> then make my own opinion upon facts. There are
> very few facts in this thread to what happened.
> Lots of opinions from people who were not even
> there.
>
> You are a perfect example. You have issues with
> the Loudoun Police because you have had issues
> with some of them in the past. You have no more
> facts then what the news posted but yet you think
> these officers did something wrong. Yet you have
> no facts to back this up. You are just basing it
> upon your own opinions.
>
> I said way back on page three that maybe they did
> screw up. But maybe they didn't. I have trust in
> the system. Some times the system does not work
> but most of the time it does. And people may not
> always agree with the systems out come but then
> again that's their opinion.

What happened to me & my family is typical of encounters with LCSO. Further more we've had problems with LCSO deputies since my wife filed a formal complaint 3 years ago, agaisnt a deputy who had her car towed and impounded (at a cost of $150), the car was parked in a visitor space in our development, he had no reason what so ever to have the car towed. Funny thing is a year later, Sheriff Simpson publicly declaired that it is not the policy of LCSO to tow cars that are parked legally. After that statment, we re-filed our complaint and it went no where.

Moral of the story, if you complain against a deputy in (The People's Republic of)Loudoun County, EXPECT TO BE HARASSED FOR YEARS!!!!!!!

Mr GFR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> raskull Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mr GFR Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > And Ruskull...just wondering since you wanted
> > to
> > > bring your personal problems into this. Your
> > > pending suit, how long has it been going on?
> Is
> > it
> > > pending in Federal court or State?
> >
> > I'm inerterjecting my issues because idiots
> like
> > you believe everything they are fed. As to my
> > case, I'm still waiting on the IAD report
> before
> > anything goes forward.
> >
> > Here's an interesting point as to your
> ignorance;
> > do you own your home??? If you do, why are you
> > listed on the deed as tenant? I sugest you
> look-up
> > tenant in the dictionary.
> > Here's another fun one for you, the IRS is an
> > agency of the Dept of Tresuary, the Dept of
> > Treasury is an agency of the IMF and the IMF is
> an
> > agency of the UN. So the reality of this world
> is
> > you pay taxes to the UN.
> > Do the reaserch, wake-up! Here's a starting
> point
> > for you; Black's Law Dictionary 6th edition,
> page
> > 816 or search Diversified Metal Products v. IRS
> > etal.
> >
> > You are just another of the sheeple who
> believes
> > everything any government agency tells you.
>
>
> Dude..you just went full blown retard with this
> post. You seemed like a pretty normal person until
> now. I think we can conclude you are a little
> nutty now.

No, just shows how little you know. Whould you like for me to cite all the case laws, documents and Senate sessions that have removed most of your rights, so you can look them up? May-be you'd wake-up and realize we're all slaves and we are moving closer every day to a one world government.

More often than not, when there is silence from the cops regarding a controversial case, this is SOP while they work with the county officials to formulate what story they want to stick with. Their primary objective will be to protect the officers, not the victim.

This one seems to be taking unusally long to announce anything, so you expect a really convoluted story when it finally comes forward.

Monk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> raskull Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Monk Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > raskull Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Look here douchbag, I have a pending civil
> > case
> > > > against LCSO for their highly
> unprofessional
> > > > behavior and VIOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES
> > > BILL
> > > > OF RIGHTS! They came to my home at 1:15 am
> to
> > > > "talk" to my wife, they had no probable
> cause
> > > or
> > > > warrant, they beat the steel door so hard
> > they
> > > > dented it, they entered into my yard
> (through
> > a
> > > > locked gate, a violation of the 4th
> > ammendment)
> > > > and attempted to kick-in my door, a
> compleat
> > > > violation on my constitutional rights. I
> have
> > > > video of this incident (as does Det.
> > Wekenman,
> > > > head of IAD for LCSO) and it will be
> uploaded
> > > to
> > > > youtube very soon. See attached photos.
> > >
> > > OKay, what did they want to talk to your wife
> > > about at 1:15am in the morning?
> >
> > She called and confronted a neighbor at 9pm
> over
> > the fact that she caught our teenager doing
> > something he shouldn't have been doing and she
> > should have been the "friend & good neighbor"
> she
> > claims she is and called us to tell us about
> the
> > behaviour of our child. That neighbor called
> the
> > LCSO, drunk at 1am to complain.
>
> Okay, now what was your son doing? (per the
> neighbor).

Again, what was your son doing?

Was it somethign like this?

Monk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> raskull Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Monk Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > raskull Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Look here douchbag, I have a pending civil
> > case
> > > > against LCSO for their highly
> unprofessional
> > > > behavior and VIOLATION OF THE UNITED STATES
> > > BILL
> > > > OF RIGHTS! They came to my home at 1:15 am
> to
> > > > "talk" to my wife, they had no probable
> cause
> > > or
> > > > warrant, they beat the steel door so hard
> > they
> > > > dented it, they entered into my yard
> (through
> > a
> > > > locked gate, a violation of the 4th
> > ammendment)
> > > > and attempted to kick-in my door, a
> compleat
> > > > violation on my constitutional rights. I
> have
> > > > video of this incident (as does Det.
> > Wekenman,
> > > > head of IAD for LCSO) and it will be
> uploaded
> > > to
> > > > youtube very soon. See attached photos.
> > >
> > > OKay, what did they want to talk to your wife
> > > about at 1:15am in the morning?
> >
> > She called and confronted a neighbor at 9pm
> over
> > the fact that she caught our teenager doing
> > something he shouldn't have been doing and she
> > should have been the "friend & good neighbor"
> she
> > claims she is and called us to tell us about
> the
> > behaviour of our child. That neighbor called
> the
> > LCSO, drunk at 1am to complain.
>
> Okay, now what was your son doing? (per the
> neighbor).

He was smoking weed with a kid he claims keeps "robbing" him for his money.