How many think that Apple doesn't know how to hack their own shit?

They sell products with out any manuals or user info.
No 800 help number.

The online help is a joke found this out when iTunes forced to I Cloud and there is no recovery from it.
If the Iphone breaks tough shit, recovering any data on it is impossible.
Their fix is a new phone.

What say you?
Attachments:

I don't like Shredded Wheat. So I don't buy it and let it go at that.

Dear Henro,

This is off-topic material.


Please be considerate of other people's time.


- Hummanity



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2016 08:14PM by Fox News.

Stop with the non-sense cut and paste third grader bullshit.

I'm sure the NSA and CIA can easily hack iPhones. The FBI should get their act together just ask them. The problem in Washington is nobody wants to share their budget money or share agency secrets.

FBI and NSA also have the call records and call metadata. They don't need the firmware revision and update. If the information was really needed, they wouldn't wait for it go through the courts.

I'm no Apple fan, but the issue is whether it's practical to either:
1) Replace the firmware on a locked phone with a version that won't brick the device after 10 failed tries
*or*
2) Copy the contents of a locked phone without destroying it

In case #1, someone (or a robot--I keep picturing a programmable version of the drinking bird, pecking away at the screen buttons!) then gets to try PIN combinations until it gets in.

In case #2, you copy the contents to a device simulator, take a copy of THAT and drive PIN combinations until that copy bricks, then copy it again and repeat until unlocked.

There's no magic bullet here: even if the contents is only encrypted with 128-bit AES, it would take until the heat-death of the universe to try all possible keys. So the attack that makes sense is against the PIN, not the encrypted phone contents.

Having call records and metadata doesn't get them info ON the phone. It might help them get to someone with whom the phone communicated, IF the records are actually available AND the other end is identifiable (not a burner that's now been destroyed--which seems likely, unless they were stupid, which of course they might be).

No Secret Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stop with the non-sense cut and paste third grader
> bullshit.
>
> I'm sure the NSA and CIA can easily hack iPhones.
> The FBI should get their act together just ask
> them. The problem in Washington is nobody wants
> to share their budget money or share agency
> secrets.

They can, but not before the iPhone wipes itself. Hell, they don't even need to do this-they already have the computers of the shooters and everything. Chances are, the FBI are doing this just so they have the tools to crack into anyone's iPhones.

I have no doubt that the NSA, DIA and CIA can easily access the information. The NSA collect all the internet traffic so I they don't even need the phone. Just it's MEI#.

If nothing else just take the phone apart and bit by bit transfer the data. Then decrypt it.

FBI is Clueless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no doubt that the NSA, DIA and CIA can
> easily access the information. The NSA collect
> all the internet traffic so I they don't even need
> the phone. Just it's MEI#.
>
> If nothing else just take the phone apart and bit
> by bit transfer the data. Then decrypt it.

You're assuming that the phone isn't built to prevent physical transfer of the data. Lots of hardware is tamper-resistant like that. Not saying that iPhones are; I have no idea. Maybe not, since it would cost more to build 'em that way.

But the real problem is your last, three-word sentence. No matter what you've seen in movies and on TV, decent encryption (which is cheap and easy these days) isn't easy to break.

They want the delay mechanism between password tries eliminated and they also want the software changed to allow WiFi input so they don't have to type in the password.

hacker's delight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They want the delay mechanism between password
> tries eliminated and they also want the software
> changed to allow WiFi input so they don't have to
> type in the password.

Ah, had missed the Wi-Fi part. Most of the press is so clueless (and repetitive) that I keep starting articles and not finishing them!

I still like the programmable drinking bird, though...

As I understand the issue, there is a chip on board holding the keys to do the encryption/decryption. These keys are never exposed -- you can't extract them from the chip itself. Like TPM, but not because some countries don't allow TPM.

Hopefully, Apple didn't just encrypt the user data with only the "iPhone keys" but I suspect that is what they did. Why even both with changing the pass code tries and entry. Just ask that the pass code requirement be dropped/disabled.

The pass code space is too small to be cryptographically worthwhile which is why I suspect they don't use it for additional keyspace. At best, a six digit pass code is ~20 bits. Hilariously small.

So what does this mean? Should we assume the FBI is capable of figuring this out or not?

The FBI can do it. As I understand , the problem is the 10 attempt limit. If Apple creates a backdoor, privacy will be lost for all. The FBI wants a permanent backdoor key.

Ying Ko Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The FBI can do it. As I understand , the problem
> is the 10 attempt limit. If Apple creates a
> backdoor, privacy will be lost for all. The FBI
> wants a permanent backdoor key.

Without the 10-attempt unit you don't need the resources of the FBI, anyone could eventually break it.

Fox News Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Henro,
>
> This is off-topic material.
>
>
> Please be considerate of other people's time.
>
>
> - Hummanity
> src="http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.
> php?2,file=221191,filename=Isuck.png"
> width="300">

took forever to scroll through that!

edit by Cary: Quote of image flood removed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2016 10:59AM by Cary.

Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hacker's delight Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They want the delay mechanism between password
> > tries eliminated and they also want the
> software
> > changed to allow WiFi input so they don't have
> to
> > type in the password.
>
> Ah, had missed the Wi-Fi part. Most of the press
> is so clueless (and repetitive) that I keep
> starting articles and not finishing them!
>
> I still like the programmable drinking bird,
> though...

Here's a copy of the court order.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2714001/SB-Shooter-Order-Compelling-Apple-Asst-iPhone.pdf

What does this mean... No! STOP! Forget I asked. I don't care.

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/apple-vs-fbi-mobile-world-congress-mwc-no-comment-iphone-san-bernardino/




"The outcome of the battle may have ripple effects on the rest of the technology industry. If the US can force one of the most powerful companies in the world to essentially make its own devices less secure, the government could do the same to other businesses. The case also raises warning bells for consumers about the potential perils of connecting everything to the Internet at a time when companies are enabling a huge range of items -- from your refrigerator to your shoes -- to talk to the Web."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2016 10:24AM by Ying Ko.

There are a dozen or more similar orders for Apple to unlock the phones. Different firmware images are requested for each phone. It'd be quite easy to figure out to patch an image to create a generic version from possessing several images to compare.

For Greybeard
Attachments:

niggar Wrote:
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> Chances are, the FBI are doing this just so they
> have the tools to crack into anyone's iPhones.

Exactly

Don't think the youngers know Drinking Bird!