jimmylegs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reported Abuse message to Cary regarding the
> outing and intimidation tactics directed towards
> the household suspected to be that of
> Gerrymanderer2, and related matters; for the
> record, for whatever that is worth....as follows:
>
>
>
> Mr. Weidemann,
>
> what's going on in this thread is deplorable and I
> hope you remove all reference to the people and
> their address, whether they are this Gerrymander
> person or not. eesh openly admitted to phishing
> for this household's personal
> info--everything--names, phone numbers, address,
> e-mails, now photos of their house. Please stop
> this. Whoever these people are, they do not
> deserve this...I know from personal experience
> what can happen when certain borderline criminal
> elements from this site find out your address. I'm
> begging you to stop this before it goes any
> further. This is not right. It is not ethical. Do
> ethics play no part in your version of freedom of
> speech? Is it okay to allow possible harm to come
> to people only because you have no legal
> obligation to intervene? Is the legality of it all
> that matters to you? People have been harassed and
> harmed as a direct result of the actions of users
> of this site. You, under law, have no obligation
> to intervene in any way; but do you have an
> ethical obligation? This is a hollow expression of
> free speech...to defend something only because it
> can be defended, according to the letter of the
> law. There is no larger
> ideal--here--specifically...there is no defensible
> reason in it; I would not invoke the cliche of
> shouting fire in a crowded theater...but what has
> gone on here for far too long comes close. You
> know who the offenders are, who do these things.
> You're aware of the stalking and harassment that's
> arisen from certain pernicious elements here, who
> engage in this behavior.
>
> Please take some action, ethically. There's no
> monolithic ideal bigger than yourself in question
> in what I'm talking about, specifically; it's
> without reason, completely, and criminal activity
> has been proven to come of it. No one even knows
> if these people are the user in question. They
> WILL be harassed. You can put a stop to it, or at
> least stem it a bit.
>
> There's no reason to this. This is not an ideal.
> That's not a substantive defense. If this is left
> up (and content like it),if it continues unabated,
> it will be nothing more than a pedantic and
> reckless defense--of yourself and no one else.
> This is out of control, needless, and morally and
> ethically irresponsible, if it stays. Please put a
> stop to it. Just because you can--legally--defend
> something, is not reason to do so. This is not
> reason, sir. You have every legal right to do what
> you do. I have no recourse, these people who've
> just been put in the crosshairs have no
> recourse...you are free and immune to run this
> site as you wish, under law, I understand. But do
> you have reason.
>
> The sleep of reason produces monsters, Mr.
> Weidemann...even in the invaluable necessity of
> free speech. Perhaps especially in it.
>
> thanks for allowing me to exercise my right to
> speech on this matter; I will post this on the
> forum, because I want it documented this has been
> reported. It's been reported more than once. You
> know how I feel, you know I have a questionable
> past here...but what I'm saying is not without
> question.
>
> I think you created a great thing with this site,
> initially; but it is in need of maintenance. If
> you can't police it effectively enough, I think
> you have a moral problem on your hands. How you
> deal with that is your personal moral burden. You
> are legally protected, however. I just hope that's
> not all that matters to you.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> **amended to add that I do not expect Cary can
> absolutely control the actions of the few criminal
> elements active on this forum.....but it is flatly
> untrue that he can exercise no control whatsoever.
> For one, by allowing personal information
> (particularly that of the innocent) to remain
> here, it is welcoming google to index whatever
> lies libel and false accusations may be associated
> with people's names. That is a damaging tool, and
> Cary does have total control over the use of that
> tool as a weapon.
>
> Second, by not making an example of the truly
> malicious (you all know who you are), who many
> times have plainly stated their intentions to
> harass and stalk others in real life, I believe
> Cary creates a culture of tacit acceptance--even
> promotion, however unintentional--for these
> malicious and criminal elements to continue to
> operate in the way they do. To say he has no
> control over what happens offline is in my opinion
> untrue; just as laying down the banhammer on a
> troll in spectacular fashion can set an example
> and lay a template for others to follow (as was
> rightly done in my case years back), so can he do
> this with the elements who are not only trolls,
> but are malicious and borderline criminal and even
> go so far as to CLEARLY STATE THEIR MALICIOUS
> INTENTIONS ON THE SITE. This has happened. It
> still happens. The usual suspects always rear
> their ugly heads, and few have ever received more
> than a slap on the wrist, if that. Reason is not
> only asleep where this is concerned...it's in a
> coma. And the monsters are running loose.
>
> This site is in desperate need of maintenance.
> There are those on here who cross a line into the
> real world that is not only alarming but sometimes
> illegal; and legality aside, charges filed,
> convictions made or not--victimization still
> occurs (sometimes to people who have never even
> heard of this site, as when a malicious element
> gets it wrong and outs an innocent person). This
> site can embolden them to do this, as long as Cary
> neglects to deal with them as he would any common
> troll. He has stated much of what I'm saying
> himself, albeit in more circumspect fashion.
> Unfortunately, he has very rarely held himself to
> it. The driver is asleep at the wheel..the car is
> out of control...we're going 50 miles per hour
> looking at the road pass us by sideways here...if
> that's how Cary wants to continue to run this
> site, it's his legal right apparently. How he
> bears the ethics and morality of that cross,
> that's his personal business. No more can be done
> or said.
>
> To sum up....this is bullshit. Whatever you think
> of me, my critique is not without reason or
> precedent. I think the moderator started with good
> intentions and was fair and effective for a long
> time...but I think his particular species of 'free
> speech' has officially become a sham. It stinks.
> It's without substance or merit. It's pedantic,
> hollow, without reason. It's a personal legal
> shield for him and a weekend hobby, nothing more.
>
>
> If you aspire to hold up this great monolithic
> vision of our 1st amendment, basically, it's going
> to fall to shit when you phone it in. Please don't
> phone in the 1st amendment. You end up tarnishing
> it, trivializing it. Not all publicity is good
> publicity. Controversy over free speech does not
> by default equate to a thing worthy of rallying
> behind; think about it...there is a way to defile
> free speech. This forum does just that, and sadly,
> it was not always this way. Cary is no William S.
> Burroughs, he's no Larry Flynt, no Lenny Bruce;
> he's a guy, I think, who simply can't or won't
> take the time necessary to preserve the sanctity
> of speech. The 1st amendment is to be treated with
> care; it's a fragile object. This is my opinion.
>
> I expect you all to have a good laugh now. Thanks
> for your serious consideration of the matter at
> hand, all....
>
> goodnight
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