The most interesting thing to watch after an election is how the losing party interprets the reasons for the loss and how it responds.

So far things are not looking good for the reality-challenged if this post is any indication:

1. They Allowed Democrats To Pick Their Nominee For Them. A succession of potential Republican nominees -– Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich –- were bright, attractive, and have compelling narratives. Instead, Republican voters (or, at least, enough of them) bought into this Democratic mantra that only a liberal stand-for-nothing Republican can win a presidential election.



2. Having Nominated A Stand-For-Nothing, He Proceeded To Run To The Left. That never works! In modern times (i.e.after the Lyndon Johnson era), five GOP nominees who have been PERCEIVED (rightly or wrongly) as “conservatives” all won the presidency. Four who were perceived, rightly, as being moderate (Ford, Bush ’92, Dole, and McCain) all lost. The only possible outlier was Bush ’88, who, frankly, was running for Reagan’s “third term.”



3. The House GOP Should Have Used The September Continuing Resolution To Frame The Election. The House Republicans, without help from anyone, could have refused to pass a continuing resolution for October 1 through March 31, unless it barred funds from being used to hire IRS agents to investigate, prosecute, and incarcerate people who filed to pay their ObamaCare premiums/fines. Had that been the case, all of October would have been spent debating Obama’s threat to shut down the government for the sole purpose of preserving the mandate.
   Instead, Paul Ryan Came Off The Campaign To Return To Washington For The Explicit Purpose Of Voting To Fund ObamaCare (And Other Obama Priorities). This is similar to when John McCain suspended his campaign to come back to Washington and pass TARP.



4. And, In Fact, The House GOP Has Dutifully Voted To Implement ObamaCare On One CR After Another, And Finally Fought The Debt Limit Increase, Kicking And Screaming, Only Because They Were Literally Forced To Do So. (Not surprisingly, when they were forced to fight the debt limit, Obama’s positives went down 10 points, notwithstanding withering liberal media assertions that the GOP was bringing America to the precipice.

More: http://www.redstate.com/mikehammond/2012/11/07/30-reasons-republicans-lost-the-election/

---

I think a better indication as to why quite a few seats were lost in the House and Senate is a list like this:

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/11/07/1155211/rape-gaffes-lose-elections/

Sometimes it pays to read media from the other side...

Yeah, they need to be even more extremist than they are now, that's the sure-fire road to victory. I'm surprised they haven't blamed Chris Christie for Mitt's loss.

That's a confusing question, Ito. You ask one thing and give examples of another.

If anything I personally have learned there is a huge difference between the "GOP" and conservatism.

Look at it this way, take a loaf of Safeway bread and put it in a Wonderbread wrapper. Then proceed to advertise Wonderbread as being and the greatest thing since.........sliced bread. Helping to build bodies in 12 ways and all that. While the bread inside the bag does all the same things as Wonderbread, it's not really what the bread inside is.

Get my meaning?

I was raised and still am a conservative. Over the years I suppose I adopted the GOP just as much as they adopted me. Yesterday morning it became very clear to me that the Republican party does not represent my interests, best or otherwise. It represents itself and their "who is next in line" mentality.

Hatemotor may not realize it, but he played a big part in my awakening. I don't plan on cutting the soles off my shoes, climbing a tree and learning how to play the flute but I know now as long as the "money handlers" are in charge, they'll always win. Even over the wishes of their own party.

The GOP has taken the conservatives in this country hostage. Perverted the conservative name to include right wing religions fanaticals and fringe groups. Heck, include those to the extreme left too if you want.

They hijacked the people they claim to represent.

And then when the shit hits the fan and the GOP is called on what it has brought to a conservative core, instead of disowning the wack jobs, they carry them around on their shoulders.

This particular conservative learned he has no voice in the Republican party and re-learned that he really dislikes politicians of all flavor.

In the rest of my lifetime I'll never see anything other than a two party system, but the GOP will also never my support again.

Do the right thing and the people will follow. Play games with the electorate and they're going to lose interest.

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I was raised and still am a conservative. Over
> the years I suppose I adopted the GOP just as much
> as they adopted me. Yesterday morning it became
> very clear to me that the Republican party does
> not represent my interests, best or otherwise. It
> represents itself and their "who is next in line"
> mentality.
>
> Hatemotor may not realize it, but he played a big
> part in my awakening. I don't plan on cutting the
> soles off my shoes, climbing a tree and learning
> how to play the flute but I know now as long as
> the "money handlers" are in charge, they'll always
> win. Even over the wishes of their own party.
>
> The GOP has taken the conservatives in this
> country hostage. Perverted the conservative name
> to include right wing religions fanaticals and
> fringe groups. Heck, include those to the extreme
> left too if you want.
>
> They hijacked the people they claim to represent.
>

This is both parties, in a nutshell. As well as many organizations, corporations, charities, non-profits.

Boards and top executives treat the organizations they run or manage as personal resources for power and money. People do not strive to rise through the ranks of any organization in order to run it better or improve upon its mission statement or goals, but to obtain the things that come with that level of power -- more money, private jets, yachts, access to other powerful people, etc.




> And then when the shit hits the fan and the GOP is
> called on what it has brought to a conservative
> core, instead of disowning the wack jobs, they
> carry them around on their shoulders.
>

This is reflective of the mentality of preserving your wealth or power. The priority is not to bring the party back to its mission statement or founding principles, but to keep the revenue coming in, keep a base of donating supporters and continue reaping the benefits.



> This particular conservative learned he has no
> voice in the Republican party and re-learned that
> he really dislikes politicians of all flavor.
>

No individual person has really had a voice in politics since the 1970's and probably well before that. It has always been focused on large issue blocks, unions, associations, and people with enormous amounts of money, and constantly getting worse and worse. Perhaps we have just reached the pinnacle, or maybe the whole system has just become cynical to the core.


> In the rest of my lifetime I'll never see anything
> other than a two party system, but the GOP will
> also never my support again.

This is what everyone needs to recognize before anything changes. The two parties maintain an anti-competitive trust that fixes "prices" (issues) and prevents access to the political system to anyone besides the incumbent two parties.


>
> Do the right thing and the people will follow.
> Play games with the electorate and they're going
> to lose interest.

People will follow no matter what. Look at any city's sports teams. There will always be mindless followers who will cheer and paint their faces with the team colors, win, lose, or otherwise. Think about the amount of support that still exists for Penn State Football even after the Sandusky thing blew up. In fact some people have become even more strident supporters in response to the negative attention it brought upon the program.

I will get back to you in four years when we see the great economic recovery under obamas tax and spend plan. Then I will ask you did liberals learn anything.

Probably not.

How many hard core conservative Republicans woke up Wednesday morning, turned on Fox News or conservative talk radio and sought consolation from those same sources that a month ago were telling them they were destined for victory? And how many commentators on those sources had the courage to actually tell their audience that perhaps a majority of decent, hard working and informed Americans did not share their vision of an ideal America?

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably not.
>
> How many hard core conservative Republicans woke
> up Wednesday morning, turned on Fox News or
> conservative talk radio and sought consolation
> from those same sources that a month ago were
> telling them they were destined for victory? And
> how many commentators on those sources had the
> courage to actually tell their audience that
> perhaps a majority of decent, hard working and
> informed Americans did not share their vision of
> an ideal America?


They call that Battered Wife Syndrome.

>>>>And how many commentators on those sources had the courage to actually tell their audience that perhaps a majority of decent, hard working and informed Americans did not share their vision of an ideal America?

None of them. They solidly believe that anyone who votes Democrat is a lazy, unemployed, uneducated inner city minority that just wants an Obamaphone.

Ito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The most interesting thing to watch after an
> election is how the losing party interprets the
> reasons for the loss and how it responds.
>
> So far things are not looking good for the
> reality-challenged if this post is any
> indication:
>
>
>

1. 
   >
2. They Allowed Democrats To Pick Their Nominee
   > For Them. A succession of potential Republican
   > nominees -– Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Rick
   > Santorum, Newt Gingrich –- were bright,
   > attractive, and have compelling narratives.
   > Instead, Republican voters (or, at least, enough
   > of them) bought into this Democratic mantra that
   > only a liberal stand-for-nothing Republican can
   > win a presidential election.
3. 
   >
   >
4. Having Nominated A Stand-For-Nothing, He
   > Proceeded To Run To The Left. That never works!
   > In modern times (i.e.after the Lyndon Johnson
   > era), five GOP nominees who have been PERCEIVED
   > (rightly or wrongly) as “conservatives” all
   > won the presidency. Four who were perceived,
   > rightly, as being moderate (Ford, Bush ’92,
   > Dole, and McCain) all lost. The only possible
   > outlier was Bush ’88, who, frankly, was running
   > for Reagan’s “third term.”
5. 
   >
   >
6. The House GOP Should Have Used The September
   > Continuing Resolution To Frame The Election. The
   > House Republicans, without help from anyone, could
   > have refused to pass a continuing resolution for
   > October 1 through March 31, unless it barred funds
   > from being used to hire IRS agents to investigate,
   > prosecute, and incarcerate people who filed to pay
   > their ObamaCare premiums/fines. Had that been the
   > case, all of October would have been spent
   > debating Obama’s threat to shut down the
   > government for the sole purpose of preserving the
   > mandate.
   > Instead, Paul Ryan Came Off The Campaign To Return
   > To Washington For The Explicit Purpose Of Voting
   > To Fund ObamaCare (And Other Obama Priorities).
   > This is similar to when John McCain suspended his
   > campaign to come back to Washington and pass
   > TARP.
7. 
   >
   >
8. And, In Fact, The House GOP Has Dutifully
   > Voted To Implement ObamaCare On One CR After
   > Another, And Finally Fought The Debt Limit
   > Increase, Kicking And Screaming, Only Because They
   > Were Literally Forced To Do So. (Not
   > surprisingly, when they were forced to fight the
   > debt limit, Obama’s positives went down 10
   > points, notwithstanding withering liberal media
   > assertions that the GOP was bringing America to
   > the precipice.
9. 
   >

>
> More:
> http://www.redstate.com/mikehammond/2012/11/07/30-
> reasons-republicans-lost-the-election/
>
> ---
>
> I think a better indication as to why quite a few
> seats were lost in the House and Senate is a list
> like this:
>
> http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/11/07/1155211
> /rape-gaffes-lose-elections/
>
> Sometimes it pays to read media from the other
> side...
>
> src="http://www.advocate.com/sites/advocate.com/fi
> les/imagecache/stories/Todd-AkinX400.jpg"
> style="padding:5px;">


We are living like in Cuba. OUR VOTES DON'T COUNT. Romney had Over 24,000 people at Mason on Monday afternoon. HOW DID HE LOSE??

O0oO0oO0o0O0ooOOoo0o0 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>And how many commentators on those sources had
> the courage to actually tell their audience that
> perhaps a majority of decent, hard working and
> informed Americans did not share their vision of
> an ideal America?
>
> None of them. They solidly believe that anyone
> who votes Democrat is a lazy, unemployed,
> uneducated inner city minority that just wants an
> Obamaphone.

Over time these paleo-servatives will continue to die off. That is the primary reason why the Repug. party is destined for the ash heap of history.

They should've draft Carrie Prejean who would've made an attractive candidate. Should've been done long ago and made her sign an agreement to not date or marry anyone until she was in the White House.

Soylent Green you made some excellent points. Keep up the good work.

While I always suspected contempt for Conservatives from the RNC its now crystal clear they want the Conservative vote but do not want us to have a voice. Despite the successes of Ronald Reagan the GOP still point to Goldwater as a reason to avoid supporting serious Constitutional Conservative candidates. Those same people who gave us losers such as Bob Dole, John McCain and now Mitt Romney.

Also, as a religious person and someone who respect religions but stop the bible thumping. Points on abortion and other social issues can be made without using bible references.

As long at they cater to the religous right wackos they will never learn.

I think they learned a big lesson but it will do them no good. That is to promise lots of free stuff. The democrats have that in the bag. As LBJ said when he passed his Great Society entitlements "That will keep those niggers voting democrat for the next two hundred years".

Prof Plum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will get back to you in four years when we see
> the great economic recovery under obamas tax and
> spend plan. Then I will ask you did liberals
> learn anything.


Did you take logic in college. and are you just assuming the rest of us didn't?

Al Moniz Wrote:
>
> We are living like in Cuba. OUR VOTES DON'T
> COUNT. Romney had Over 24,000 people at Mason on
> Monday afternoon. HOW DID HE LOSE??

South Riding voter, here.

I went to vote at lunch time on Tuesday. What I saw was a dozen women (I assume Moms, in most cases) walk into my polling place every minute while I was there. They just kept walking through the door, and for the most part, they showed up in groups. Every single woman I saw had a blue Democratic sample ballet in her hand,and she was not afraid to be seen with it.

Remember, we are talking South Riding here, the polling station was the school right across from the pool with the big slide. These women were mostly 30-45ish, slim,and appeared to be well educated,and self confident.

When I left the building, and there were not many men around at this time, there were no women talking with the Republican canvasers outside, but lots of women gathered around a car with an Obama screen on it.

Driving back up Edgewater Street to go back to work, I saw Romney signs on each side of the road, spaced every 15 feet or so. I thought to myself, "they have no clue; from what I saw, the Republicans lost the female vote."

Loundoun County went 52% for Obama. Loudoun County, home of ultrasound state Senator Dick Black, went Blue. Romney/Ryan and the Republicans in general just tossed the women's opinions and interests aside the last two years, and the women in South Riding, and I assume a lot more places, knew it. These women made a difference at the polling place. And in South Riding,they went in groups.

There is another reason for the Obama win.

Oh, and "binders" didn't help either, Mitt.

You would think they would stop promoting religious fringe cult groups to the forefront of american politics.

O0oO0oO0o0O0ooOOoo0o0 Wrote:
> None of them. They solidly believe that anyone
> who votes Democrat is a lazy, unemployed,
> uneducated inner city minority that just wants an
> Obamaphone.


I can only assume (with your lack of a consistent posting name) that you've said this several times here.

And I have one thing to say about it. Please stop lumping all those that disagree with your choice of leaders as being the "they" you speak of above.

Yeah, there are plenty of people out there that feel as you stated. But it's no where near all of "us".

Virtually all my employees are Democrats (according to them anyway) and if they were lazy or looking for a free ride, they wouldn't have last more than two days in my company. 80% of them are Hispanic. And they all work harder and with more pride in their work than any other race/color/creed I've ever hired.

My company may or may not survive the upcoming financial shit storm but as long as they're working for me, I'll continue to pay them commensurate to the high level of service they give me.

BigK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As long at they cater to the religous right wackos
> they will never learn.

They don't, BigK. They really don't. Any more than they cater to me or you or anyone else. They drag them up on the stage and shake their hands and get the photo ops but in the end, they don't back a damn thing any of those groups stand for either.

They back getting into power and staying in power for the sake of power.

Both sides of the aisle don't really give a rats ass about maintaining and providing the opportunity for the American dream. Unless that dream can be used to further their own careers.

If what you say is true, could you point to one instance of where the ten commandments was put back on a court house once a Republican was elected to office?

What they really need to do is let any and all religions fight their own battles and stop cherry picking for their own cause.

SR Dude

You make a great point. Women make up over 50% of the electorate. Why couldn't Mitt and Paul see that?

Way to go women of South Riding! I am sure you helped turn Loudoun County Blue.

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BigK Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>
> If what you say is true, could you point to one
> instance of where the ten commandments was put
> back on a court house once a Republican was
> elected to office?
>

In Virginia we elected Republicans in the State House and Senate in 2011 and the first 19 bills they passed were all restrictions on abortion. They promised "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs," and we got "abortion, abortion, abortion."

"Do You Think Conservatives Have Learned a Lesson From the Election?"

Yes go on welfare and let the remaining fools pay the freight.

I know I did Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Do You Think Conservatives Have Learned a Lesson
> From the Election?"
>
> Yes go on welfare and let the remaining fools pay
> the freight.


It was obvious from the vote that many unmotivated citizens and non citizens in major urban areas and south Florida got this lesson years ago and are not willing to give up on the free ride just yet.

I am not saying they will, obviously they will never give up their free housing, food and obamaphones. I just taking a seat on the same train and let the other fools pay for me. Work is for suckers.

I know I did Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not saying they will, obviously they will
> never give up their free housing, food and
> obamaphones. I just taking a seat on the same
> train and let the other fools pay for me. Work is
> for suckers.


I know you're just being a sour grape and resentful towards those "free riders", but if you want to quit your job and go on the dole, you are being very shortsighted.

It isn't as cushy as you believe it to be, and you will have nothing to show for it at 65, except for a meager social security check.

Good luck making ends meet on any of it.

Fox News and the right wing just pumped up this issue in an attempt to get Romney elected. You weren't supposed to keep whining about it afterward.

You are looking at it the wrong way. There are many benefits to welfare.

A Sharon Bulova luxury condo. On the open market these units would go for $2,000 a month if not more. No landlord will ever hassle me for rent, nor any bank foreclose on me.

Food stamps. $400 per month for single person. What do you pay each month for food. Food stamps also now accepted at certain restaurants.

Free medical and dental care. A plan that covers even part of those costs is $700.00 per month for a single person.

Sure there is a matter of being a freeloader but who is going to work each day and who is sleeping in til noon? Its kind of like being in prison, sure you live like a pig and are a drain on society but the lack of being responsible for anything in life makes up for it.

Welfare is not that bad. Sure there a few downsides but where welfare makes up for it is responsibility. No longer does one have to worry about making rent. No worries if your employer is going to drop your health care. No worries about putting food on the table. Under welfare all those things are taken care of by the government. Admit it what a great relief it would be for you not to have to worry about these things on a daily basis. They even give your kids free breakfast and lunch so you do not have to wake up in the morning and fix those things.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably not.
>
> How many hard core conservative Republicans woke
> up Wednesday morning, turned on Fox News or
> conservative talk radio and sought consolation
> from those same sources that a month ago were
> telling them they were destined for victory? And
> how many commentators on those sources had the
> courage to actually tell their audience that
> perhaps a majority of decent, hard working and
> informed Americans did not share their vision of
> an ideal America?


You sound so stupid.

SR Guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SoylentGreen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BigK Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >>
> > If what you say is true, could you point to one
> > instance of where the ten commandments was put
> > back on a court house once a Republican was
> > elected to office?
> >
>
> In Virginia we elected Republicans in the State
> House and Senate in 2011 and the first 19 bills
> they passed were all restrictions on abortion.
> They promised "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs," and we got
> "abortion, abortion, abortion."

That's odd considering a Google search only brings up one bill that was "tweaked" by the governor before it was signed removing the ultrasound requirement.

As a matter of fact the Washington Post only shows 14 abortion related bills for the entire country that year.

Why inflate the number to something that outrageous?

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SR Guy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SoylentGreen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > BigK Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > >>
> > > If what you say is true, could you point to
> one
> > > instance of where the ten commandments was
> put
> > > back on a court house once a Republican was
> > > elected to office?
> > >
> >
> > In Virginia we elected Republicans in the State
> > House and Senate in 2011 and the first 19 bills
> > they passed were all restrictions on abortion.
> > They promised "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs," and we got
> > "abortion, abortion, abortion."
>
> That's odd considering a Google search only brings
> up one bill that was "tweaked" by the governor
> before it was signed removing the ultrasound
> requirement.
>
> As a matter of fact the Washington Post only shows
> 14 abortion related bills for the entire country
> that year.
>
> Why inflate the number to something that
> outrageous?


Because he is a liberal and liberals lie.

it all depends Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are looking at it the wrong way. There are
> many benefits to welfare.
>
> A Sharon Bulova luxury condo. On the open market
> these units would go for $2,000 a month if not
> more. No landlord will ever hassle me for rent,
> nor any bank foreclose on me.
>
> Food stamps. $400 per month for single person.
> What do you pay each month for food. Food stamps
> also now accepted at certain restaurants.

Bullshit. The average for Virginia for one person is $129.55 a month and it is based on your income. Your Section 8 house, any other cash assistance you receive will reduce your eligibility. Sorry, you heard wrong, but I'm sure it made you angry when you heard this from Rush or Hannity or Beck or whoever crazy ranter it was.

Also, SNAP EBT cards can only be used to purchase food that will be consumed in the home (grocery stores, not restaurants.)

You live in a fantasy world where everyone is getting something for nothing except you.

>
> Sure there is a matter of being a freeloader but
> who is going to work each day and who is sleeping
> in til noon? Its kind of like being in prison,
> sure you live like a pig and are a drain on
> society but the lack of being responsible for
> anything in life makes up for it.


Which radio personality did you hear this from?

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably not.
>
> How many hard core conservative Republicans woke
> up Wednesday morning, turned on Fox News or
> conservative talk radio and sought consolation
> from those same sources that a month ago were
> telling them they were destined for victory? And
> how many commentators on those sources had the
> courage to actually tell their audience that
> perhaps a majority of decent, hard working and
> informed Americans did not share their vision of
> an ideal America?





HA Ha ha ha!

"How many hard core conservative Republicans woke
up Wednesday morning, turned on Fox News or
conservative talk radio and sought consolation
from those same sources that a month ago were
telling them they were destined for victory?"

Bill this is why you and I will always exist in parallel universes.

We true conservatives don't get our "consolation" from talking heads on TV. Not even close!

Our "consolation comes from the fact that we know how to survive and even thrive no matter who resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

I'm better off than I was 4 years ago. And four years before that and so on and on.

A large majority of my fine liberal friends think otherwise.

The vast majority of Obama voters will be just as unhappy in four years as they are now.

They will still think the deck is stacked against them.

They will continue to blame "corporate greed", "the rich", "big oil" republicans blocking a black man you name it!

One thing is certain. Liberals will always have an excuse for their personal short comings in life and always view themselves as victims of circumstances out of their control and never find their "ideal America".


Ask yourself Bill. What was the "Red tape and bureaucracy Obama was talking about getting out of the way of the relief efforts during the aftermath of hurricane "Sandy"?

How about the "mumbo jumbo" Governor Chris Christy was talking about Obama promising to remove out of the way for a fast & furious FEMA hurricane response?

Federal regulations maybe? Centralized planning?

Why does the mumbo jumbo and buearacractic red tape exist in the first place if it is a stumbling block in times of emergency? Didn't your man say he was going to streamline from "the top down " in his first term or did the nasty Repubs block him there too! Are you a pencil pushing stumbling block Bill? I bet you are!

Anyhow see you in four years! Until then enjoy "the new norm"
Yours Truly,
Thomas Sowell

Thomas Sowell 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Anyhow see you in four years! Until then enjoy
> "the new norm"
> Yours Truly,
> Thomas Sowell


Go away.

Does your little mind believe that posting a picture of some retarded conservative writer makes your blather any more authoritative or believable?

Just go away.

Well, it looks like Thomas Sowell 2 didn't learn his lesson. You just don't get it - we won't vote for crazy people, or puppets who represent crazy people.

The myth is that the big corps want the redtape streamlined. They gain competitive advantage from placing key people at the regulators. The skids are already greased for them when it comes to getting applications approved and getting access to inside information on competitors. Why would they give that up to level the playing field?

Yours truly,



C Thomas Howell

C Thomas Howell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The myth is that the big corps want the redtape
> streamlined. They gain competitive advantage from
> placing key people at the regulators. The skids
> are already greased for them when it comes to
> getting applications approved and getting access
> to inside information on competitors. Why would
> they give that up to level the playing field?
>
> Yours truly,
>
>
> C Thomas Howell


They really just want to eliminate the regulations that interfere with their incumbent advantages, or that they believe unnecessarily impedes profits.

Clean air act? Who can even quantify the value of breathing air that doesn't have heavy metals and particulates in it? But I can quantify how much it costs me to comply with it.

Labor laws? Those benefit the 47% who are taking instead of us job creators. Get rid of that shit.

FDA? Why shouldn't I just be able to make up some new chemical cocktail and sell it to the public as the new boner or heart pill? If it kills people, so what. But then again, now that I'm a half-billion dollar pharmaceutical corporation, maybe it's not so bad to have all those barriers in place to keep some small start-up from eating my lunch. They'll have to come to me in order to get their drug approved, I have an entire building full of people whose job it is to work through the approval process. I'll just give them a little buyout cash and reap the rewards from their hard work.

Thomas Sowell-Where you and I differ my friend is this: You see salvation in this country from the rich getting richer so that HOPEFULLY they MAY choose to spend those riches in a way that MAY increase employment and wealth for the rest of the country. I see salvation from increasing the wealth of the rest of the country, especially the middle 60% of the population, so that they have the means to purchase additional goods and services and to provide investment capital which would benefit all, including the rich.

This IS NOT an altruistic position. I have seen increasingly since 2000 more and more middle class customers come in our door needing our services who have NO means of paying for those services. Money that used to come to us hasn't come in due to stagnant or lower wages, or has gotten sucked up by increasing costs of living, including increasing debt servicing costs. I know other business owners who are in the same situation. The stock market and lower tax rates have been good to me, but the math is simple. No matter how much money I am sitting on, fewer paying customers means no new hires and fewer investments in new equipment and technology.

And may the next four years be even better for you.

@Bill.N.

+1,000,000

I learned welfare beats the shit out of working
Attachments:

sleep til noon everyday Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I learned welfare beats the shit out of working

Yep. Keep scapegoating the poorest of the poor.

Where are those wonderful "Job creators" these days? Those Bush tax cuts have been in effect for a decade now. When are they going to get off their lazy asses and create us some jobs?

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic

Ito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where are those wonderful "Job creators" these
> days? Those Bush tax cuts have been in effect for
> a decade now. When are they going to get off their
> lazy asses and create us some jobs?

Jobs?? Fool nobody said nothing about no jobs. Is you crazy
Attachments:

The "job creators" are spending their money on talking heads who bad mouth their fellow Americans and create stereo types so they can say "they don't deserve our help"

No.

http://www.amren.com/news/2012/11/the-2012-election-what-it-means-for-whites/

Yucky24. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No.

Are you sure?


>
> http://www.amren.com/news/2012/11/the-2012-electio
> n-what-it-means-for-whites/

New Century Foundation is a 501(c)(3) organization founded in 1994 to study immigration and race relations so as to better understand the consequences of America's increasing diversity.


Pretty much just a hate group. This "organization" has a P.O. Box in Oakton as their mailing address. Sounds like this hate monger runs a hate organization out of his basement.

Guy looks like a real racist douche:

And?

And they're no more "hateful" than La Raza, the NAACP and other widely accepted - and Lefty supported - non-White orgs.

It's just that Whites are the only race who are never allowed to show even the remotest signs of racial loyalty.

Your victim mentality aside, whites are allowed to show racial loyalty. There are no laws stopping you from expressing your opinion.

Technically, you might be right. Realistically, we all know that simply isn't the case.

Go try and create a White Student Association at any major university. See what happens...

The same thing goes for masculinist Male Rights groups. Practically speaking, Males and Whites simply aren't allowed to lobby for their own interests.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thomas Sowell-Where you and I differ my friend is
> this: You see salvation in this country from the
> rich getting richer so that HOPEFULLY they MAY
> choose to spend those riches in a way that MAY
> increase employment and wealth for the rest of the
> country. I see salvation from increasing the
> wealth of the rest of the country, especially the
> middle 60% of the population, so that they have
> the means to purchase additional goods and
> services and to provide investment capital which
> would benefit all, including the rich.
>
> This IS NOT an altruistic position. I have seen
> increasingly since 2000 more and more middle class
> customers come in our door needing our services
> who have NO means of paying for those services.
> Money that used to come to us hasn't come in due
> to stagnant or lower wages, or has gotten sucked
> up by increasing costs of living, including
> increasing debt servicing costs. I know other
> business owners who are in the same situation.
> The stock market and lower tax rates have been
> good to me, but the math is simple. No matter how
> much money I am sitting on, fewer paying customers
> means no new hires and fewer investments in new
> equipment and technology.
>
> And may the next four years be even better for
> you.



"I see salvation from increasing the
wealth of the rest of the country, especially the
middle 60% of the population, so that they have
the means to purchase additional goods and
services and to provide investment capital which
would benefit all, including the rich. "

Where do the fairer angel exist among us that can increase the wealth of the 60% as you say?

It certainly does not reside in our centralized federal governments command and control centre now does it?

Otherwise shouldn't we have gotten a little bit bigger bang for the 6 trillion dollar buck than 1.2% real growth GDP in four years?

Or is it the iron curtain blocking not only free enterprise but fast sucking the oxygen from the foundation of freedom itself?

The only thing government can do is stay the hell out of the way.

I'm 100% certain it's the latter.

Bill your position, world view, ideology, economic understanding and related logic therein is untenable and non existent.. Supported by fiction not fact.

"I have seen
increasingly since 2000 more and more middle class
customers come in our door needing our services
who have NO means of paying for those services."

If they don't have means of paying for services needed why are they there in the first place?

I can only surmise you are in some form of medical care as a profession.

If that is the case there should be no worry.

Starting in 2014 we will be warehousing those in need in a whole new bureaucracy known as "Obamacare".... not sure it covers dental or ophthalmology.

But don't you worry about the ruling elite that has hoisted this great social program on us all for they have exempted themselves and their families.

Bill you are not only self destructive, you and your damnable motives are ruining
life liberty and the pursuit of happiness for your children and generations to come. And you will remain blind to the truth until the day they come to put you in a hole with a rock on it.

.....................................Good day to you sir,

......................................Thomas Sowell

"Or is it the iron curtain blocking not only free enterprise but fast sucking the oxygen from the foundation of freedom itself?"

You mean the foundation of freedom where CEO's tell their employees who to vote for or they'll fire them?

The "Iron Curtain" is around the gated communities these guys hide behind and talk crap about REAL AMERICANS who work hard for a living,,,

Here's your "job creators",,,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/murray-energy-obama-layoffs-cut-jobs_n_2100172.html?ref=topbar&icid=maing-grid10%7Chtmlws-main-bb%7Cdl11%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D232844



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2012 04:47PM by Hatemotor.

Do You Think Conservatives Have Learned a Lesson From the Election?

The election was very close. Romney won about 48.6% of the vote. I'm not sure anything drastic needs to be learned... I don't understand why everyone thinks people should abandon their political, religious, economic and/or philosophical beliefs because they lost an election. How does that make any sense?

But they will likely lose again, and if they obstruct like they did between 2010-2012 (this time without the benefit of the white girl mom killer distracting the American public on the cable news) they will become the most hated entity in America.

President Obama has proposed a compromise. GOP come back with an actual compromise not holding your candidates exact position and sucking at the balls of Grover Norquist.

We can have cuts, we can address entitlements, but we WILL have the bush tax cuts removed for the top 2%. Otherwise, the democrats would be conceding everything.

newgatedenizen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do You Think Conservatives Have Learned a Lesson
> From the Election?
>
> The election was very close. Romney won about
> 48.6% of the vote. I'm not sure anything drastic
> needs to be learned... I don't understand why
> everyone thinks people should abandon their
> political, religious, economic and/or
> philosophical beliefs because they lost an
> election. How does that make any sense?


The simple answer is the GOP was up against a guy that had virtually nothing going for him. No matter who started all this crap, he didn't help. Regardless of how others on this site proclaim .0000003% increases in the GDP or decreases in unemployment. Other than the stock market (which made the rich richer), he had nothing.

And the GOP came with their z game.

Romney very well could have turned things around in a hurry. But we'll never know because the GOP put him on the mark down shelf before he'd even gotten the nomination.

More Mormons voted for Bush than voted for Romney? They didn't vote for Obama, they simply didn't vote.

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> newgatedenizen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do You Think Conservatives Have Learned a
> Lesson
> > From the Election?
> >
> > The election was very close. Romney won about
> > 48.6% of the vote. I'm not sure anything
> drastic
> > needs to be learned... I don't understand why
> > everyone thinks people should abandon their
> > political, religious, economic and/or
> > philosophical beliefs because they lost an
> > election. How does that make any sense?
>
>
> The simple answer is the GOP was up against a guy
> that had virtually nothing going for him. No
> matter who started all this crap, he didn't help.
> Regardless of how others on this site proclaim
> .0000003% increases in the GDP or decreases in
> unemployment. Other than the stock market (which
> made the rich richer), he had nothing.
>
> And the GOP came with their z game.
>
> Romney very well could have turned things around
> in a hurry. But we'll never know because the GOP
> put him on the mark down shelf before he'd even
> gotten the nomination.
>
> More Mormons voted for Bush than voted for Romney?
> They didn't vote for Obama, they simply didn't
> vote.

You mean more private sector jobs created in a 40 month period than any period during Bush's presidency?

You mean a unemployment rate which would be below 6% if the congress didn't obstruct much needed bond backing for jurisdictions around the country that are in a short term liquidity crunch and are firing teachers and police officers?

Just send your next candidate up then, lets see what happens in 2014 in the house if they obstruct a budget resolution again.

Uh huh, Fox Filter engaged Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You mean more private sector jobs created in a 40
> month period than any period during Bush's
> presidency?
>
> You mean a unemployment rate which would be below
> 6% if the congress didn't obstruct much needed
> bond backing for jurisdictions around the country
> that are in a short term liquidity crunch and are
> firing teachers and police officers?
>
> Just send your next candidate up then, lets see
> what happens in 2014 in the house if they obstruct
> a budget resolution again.

All bullshit. Its cute you think unemployment is in even single digits

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> More Mormons voted for Bush than voted for Romney?
> They didn't vote for Obama, they simply didn't
> vote.

You are the one who believes the comparison has anything to do with Obama.

More Mormons voted for Bush than voted for Romney. More REPUBLICAN Mormons voted FOR Born Again Bush than voted for REPUBLICAN MORMON ROMNEY.

They chose to stay home instead of vote for Romney. Who cares that they didn't vote for Obama. They DID NOT VOTE FOR ROMNEY. THEY CHOSE TO NOT VOTE because they did NOT LIKE Romney.

oh god. You're always looking for a way to hold on tight to those beliefs of yours. Keep that mind closed tight!

Correction: It appears that there IS at least one White Student Association at an American college.

And it's bringing sweet, glorious Race Realism to the unwashed libtard masses!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGyfmhFobdM

False comparison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SoylentGreen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > More Mormons voted for Bush than voted for
> Romney?
> > They didn't vote for Obama, they simply didn't
> > vote.
>
> You are the one who believes the comparison has
> anything to do with Obama.
>
> More Mormons voted for Bush than voted for
> Romney. More REPUBLICAN Mormons voted FOR
> Born Again Bush than voted for REPUBLICAN MORMON
> ROMNEY.
>
> They chose to stay home instead of vote for
> Romney. Who cares that they didn't vote for
> Obama. They DID NOT VOTE FOR ROMNEY. THEY CHOSE
> TO NOT VOTE because they did NOT LIKE Romney.
>
> oh god. You're always looking for a way to hold
> on tight to those beliefs of yours. Keep that
> mind closed tight!


WTF kind of knee jerk reactionary comment was that?

Just because *I* said it, it has to mean something completely different in your wee small mind?

They didn't vote for Romney because they didn't vote anyone. They weren't inspired to vote. Period.

Now pick up your "open mind" off the floor and explain in a different thread why less people voted for Obama this time around than they did in 2008.

And while you're at it, go fuck yourself.

Correction: The white Student Union wasn't actually approved at Towson University. It was merely being considered and will almost certainly be rejected... Which proves my original point perfectly, doesn't it?

Do You Think Conservatives Have Learned a Lesson From the Election?

Yes, there are more people of voting age in America who vote how they feel and less that vote what they think.

HOA MGR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do You Think Conservatives Have Learned a Lesson
> From the Election?
>
> Yes, there are more people of voting age in
> America who vote how they feel and less that vote
> what they think.

No job? About to lose the house?
Maybe cleaning the yard will help your disposition.

Neigborhood Watch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOA MGR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do You Think Conservatives Have Learned a
> Lesson
> > From the Election?
> >
> > Yes, there are more people of voting age in
> > America who vote how they feel and less that
> vote
> > what they think.
>
> No job? About to lose the house?
> Maybe cleaning the yard will help your
> disposition

Dancing man to the rescue. I'm 2concerned about you

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Now pick up your "open mind" off the floor and
> explain in a different thread why less people
> voted for Obama this time around than they did in
> 2008.
>

That would be "fewer people," not "less people."

FUNdamental Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SoylentGreen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > Now pick up your "open mind" off the floor and
> > explain in a different thread why less people
> > voted for Obama this time around than they did
> in
> > 2008.
> >
>
> That would be "fewer people," not "less people."


No, less people is correct grammar nazi.

You being one of the lessor people.

Thomas Sowell 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only thing government can do is stay the hell
> out of the way.

What a load of crap. You saying you want the government to stay out of the way is like Tom Brady saying that the referees in football should sit back and let the players play the game. When was the last time you heard a quarterback complaining that referees made too many roughing the passer calls? You want government to be involved in the economy, SO LONG AS IT IS INVOLVED IN WAYS THAT YOU LIKE. Patents, copyrights and all of those other intellectual property rights and other economic rights that you and I both like, and which are the basis of our current economy, exist because of government involvement in the economy. Well it works both ways. The same government which can enhance the value of rights by recognizing them and putting restrictions on others in order to maximize the value of those rights is just as involved in the economy, involved in determining the winners and losers, as the government which puts limits on those rights.

> If they don't have means of paying for services
> needed why are they there in the first place?

It is amazing that I am accused of living in a fantasy land by someone who would actually pose this question! People seek out goods and services when they need them, and not simply when they have the ability to pay for them. Cars break down or need to be replaced, water pipes burst, appliances break down, roofs spring leaks, people get sick or get injured, and people get charged with crimes or get sued without regard to people's ability to pay. When these things happen customers still go out seeking needed goods and services, and quite often the businessman is put in a position of not just supplying the goods or services but also helping the customers work out ways to pay for them.

> But don't you worry about the ruling elite that
> has hoisted this great social program on us all
> for they have exempted themselves and their
> families.

As opposed to that ruling elite that put us in a tailspin before Obama even took office.

> Bill you are not only self destructive, you and
> your damnable motives are ruining
> life liberty and the pursuit of happiness for your
> children and generations to come.

This is rich. If you want to invoke the legacy of the founding fathers you need to invoke the entire legacy, including the rather extensive amount of economic and social regulation that was imposed even then. I'd be happy to provide examples, but I suspect that you want to maintain an illusion of our founding fathers living in an era of unreglulated business, just like you maintain the illusion that your desired economic policies are based on government staying out of the way.

I will be happy to discuss the pros and cons of different policy changes that could be made which would have the effect of encouraging wealth growth among the middle sixty percent. However doing so with someone who rejects the idea of pursuing any policies other than those which would primarily benefit the well off is pointless.

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FUNdamental Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SoylentGreen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > >
> > > Now pick up your "open mind" off the floor
> and
> > > explain in a different thread why less people
> > > voted for Obama this time around than they
> did
> > in
> > > 2008.
> > >
> >
> > That would be "fewer people," not "less
> people."
>
>
> No, less people is correct grammar nazi.
>
> You being one of the lessor people.

Are you trying to funny, or are you a typical Republican, arrogant AND stupid? It's "lesser" not "lessor", unless you are referring to Mr. FUNdamental as someone granting a lease.

He is also correct with respect the proper usage of "fewer" and "less". "Fewer" is the prescribed comparative for plural nouns, in this case "people", the plural of "person". The comparative "less" is used to modify singular nouns. An example:

"There will be fewer Republicans in the future because of demographic changes in the electorate, but that should be less a concern for them in the near term, where the focus will be on keeping their party from splintering."

YellowDog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Are you trying to funny, or are you a typical
> Republican, arrogant AND stupid? It's "lesser"
> not "lessor", unless you are referring to Mr.
> FUNdamental as someone granting a lease.
>

It's a republican thing. They are poorly educated people, in general.

See Uncle.Ream.Us's post where he refers to an architectural/dental term when he was trying to use "embrace" in the "America is DEAD" thread:

"ROmney was a rock solid, ethial man and his embrasure of Ryan gave me some hope for fiscal sanity."

With respect to whether or not Conservatives have learned a lesson from the election, the question is moot. The Republican party will continue its dissolution largely on the divide between the pragmatists, who have now "evolved" on immigration and other social issues which alienate young and college educated voters; and the extremist, bagger types, who will ride their racist, fear mongering rhetoric right over the precipice. Their continuous use of Nixon's "Southern Strategy" (actually George Wallace's) has made their "brand" a place preceived as hostile to non-whites, women, and immigrants.

When LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act in 1965, he remarked "we've lost the South for a generation". The remainder of that generation is what kept Georgia, South Carolina, Alabama, and the rest Red. But Virginia has gone Blue, as has Florida, and nearly North Carolina. Given this trend, the current Republican party will not be able to put into practice any lessons they may have learned.

The slow motion train wreck that is the Republican party will be no more in evidence than in the negotiations between the House and Obama. Obama has already completely outmaneuvered them. Either they completely capitulate before Jan. 1, or Sequestration takes place and the tax cuts expire. Obama escapes any responsibility for this by stating truthfully "I did nothing more then not interfere with the execution of a law created in the House and passed by Congress."

Obama knows that no House Republican wants to return home and explain why taxes are going up AND Federal dollars will stop flowing -- keep in mind that the largest recipients of Federal largess are the very Red states that have been electing these guys, so the pain, real and imagined will be greatest there. They will relent, or see our democracy turned into management by executive order, out of necessity. The Republicans will then have handled Obama the very thing they most fear, a non-WASP with absolute power. And all of this was to protect "job creators" who obviously weren't doing their jobs by the end of the Bush administration anyway.

But this worst case scenario won't happen. Sequestration will be recinded, and the current tax rates people making less than $250K will pass Congress and be signed into law by the President. The current Bush rate for the 1% will expire, just as it lawfully should. Obama is allowing the Republicans to save face. They'll take credit for the Middle class tax cut and saving Federal spending in their districts. He'll even go along with some of their cost cutting. Only Glover Norquist, an unelected idiot, and his sycophants will protest that taxes were raised. They weren't. They simply returned to their Pre-Bush level.

The Republicans brought this on themselves. Thinking they were too clever by half, they hid the true cost of the Bush tax cuts by giving them a decade long lifespan. They obviously thought that the genius of supply side economics would create such a sustained prosperity that they could be happily recinded in 2010. They were wrong.

uh huh, msnbc filter engaged Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uh huh, Fox Filter engaged Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > You mean more private sector jobs created in a
> 40
> > month period than any period during Bush's
> > presidency?
> >
> > You mean a unemployment rate which would be
> below
> > 6% if the congress didn't obstruct much needed
> > bond backing for jurisdictions around the
> country
> > that are in a short term liquidity crunch and
> are
> > firing teachers and police officers?
> >
> > Just send your next candidate up then, lets see
> > what happens in 2014 in the house if they
> obstruct
> > a budget resolution again.
>
> All bullshit. Its cute you think unemployment is
> in even single digits


No more cute than using the same metric during Reagan's presidency numbnuts. You want to create a new metric, thats fine, but dont pretend that there is some new screening for what defines unemployment you fuck tard

We do have 7.9% unemployment regardless of whether you think so or not and whether you believe it or not 2% of that is former government employees at the local and state level

Now go cry into your hands about how much you wished and prayed that the big bad democrat didnt win, oh if only Santorum was your nominee then everyone would have seen the GOPs dominance

Moh k there buddy () "you fuck tard"

I think someone hit a soft spot....

THey learned how to lose elections by even bigger margins hahahahaha

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA