Clifton Elementary School will celebrate its legacy of academic achievement, cherished memories, and its relationship with the Clifton community during an open house on Friday, June 17, from 5:00 until 7:00 p.m. Student artwork and writing will be on display, along with memorabilia from previous years. There will be a multimedia presentation along with music and light refreshments. All former and current Clifton Elementary School students, staff, parents, and community members are invited to attend the event. Due to parking constraints, please park in town and walk up the hill to the school if at all possible. Please contact the school office at 703-988-8000 for further information.

I wont miss this party. This is a great chance to meet the worst, most selfish and petty human beings that Fairfax county can produce. Should be good for a laugh.

Wow, hanging out at an elementary school...Sounds like fun. NOT!
Attachments:

That is hilarious.

-----------------------------------------------

"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

The best in Fairfax.

dell ave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clifton Elementary School will celebrate its
> legacy of academic achievement, cherished
> memories, and its relationship with the Clifton
> community during an open house on Friday, June 17,
> from 5:00 until 7:00 p.m. Student artwork and
> writing will be on display, along with memorabilia
> from previous years. There will be a multimedia
> presentation along with music and light
> refreshments. All former and current Clifton
> Elementary School students, staff, parents, and
> community members are invited to attend the event.
> Due to parking constraints, please park in town
> and walk up the hill to the school if at all
> possible. Please contact the school office at
> 703-988-8000 for further information.
>
> I wont miss this party. This is a great chance to
> meet the worst, most selfish and petty human
> beings that Fairfax county can produce. Should be
> good for a laugh.


can anyone go???????/? or do we had to go to that school in order to attend the party

dell ave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clifton Elementary School will celebrate its
> legacy of academic achievement, cherished
> memories, and its relationship with the Clifton
> community during an open house on Friday, June 17,
> from 5:00 until 7:00 p.m. Student artwork and
> writing will be on display, along with memorabilia
> from previous years. There will be a multimedia
> presentation along with music and light
> refreshments. All former and current Clifton
> Elementary School students, staff, parents, and
> community members are invited to attend the event.
> Due to parking constraints, please park in town
> and walk up the hill to the school if at all
> possible. Please contact the school office at
> 703-988-8000 for further information.
>

Don't come. I had 5 KIDS. MY youngest one is 9 years old and a 4th grader. he wanted to graduate from CES but now he can't. Your not funny. WE ARE VERY VERY SAD, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE CRYING BECAUSE IT WAS THE BEST SCHOOL IN FCPS. CES WAS THE BEST SCHOOL HERE BECAUSE IT HAD GREAT STUDENTS, AND GREAT TEACHERS.

I am going to be crying since my property values are going to go down.

dell ave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clifton Elementary School will celebrate its
> legacy of academic achievement, cherished
> memories, and its relationship with the Clifton
> community during an open house on Friday, June 17,
> from 5:00 until 7:00 p.m. Student artwork and
> writing will be on display, along with memorabilia
> from previous years. There will be a multimedia
> presentation along with music and light
> refreshments. All former and current Clifton
> Elementary School students, staff, parents, and
> community members are invited to attend the event.
> Due to parking constraints, please park in town
> and walk up the hill to the school if at all
> possible. Please contact the school office at
> 703-988-8000 for further information.
>
> I wont miss this party. This is a great chance to
> meet the worst, most selfish and petty human
> beings that Fairfax county can produce. Should be
> good for a laugh.


am useing my phone and the letters are to small. Can't prove read it. And I went to that school and so did my xwife. We where in the same in 3,4,5,6 and grade in the 80s. Its so sad that JACKE DALE IS CLOSING DOWN THAT SCHOO. I HOPE THEY CLOSE DOWN YOUR KIDS ELEMEMTERY SCHOOL OR THE SCHOOL YOU WENT TO

dell ave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clifton Elementary School will celebrate its
> legacy of academic achievement, cherished
> memories, and its relationship with the Clifton
> community during an open house on Friday, June 17,
> from 5:00 until 7:00 p.m. Student artwork and
> writing will be on display, along with memorabilia
> from previous years. There will be a multimedia
> presentation along with music and light
> refreshments. All former and current Clifton
> Elementary School students, staff, parents, and
> community members are invited to attend the event.
> Due to parking constraints, please park in town
> and walk up the hill to the school if at all
> possible. Please contact the school office at
> 703-988-8000 for further information.
>
> I wont miss this party. This is a great chance to
> meet the worst, most selfish and petty human
> beings that Fairfax county can produce. Should be
> good for a laugh.


I HOPE THEY CLOSE DOWN YOUR ELEMENTERY SCHOOL.. I HOPE THEY CLOSE DOWN YOUR SON OR DAUGHTER ELEMENTERY SCHOOL (IF YOU HAVE KIDS) YOU SOUND LIKE A VIRGIN.
I HATE JACK DALE. I WENT TO THAT SCHOOL IN THE 80S. SO DID MY X WIFE. IT WAS A GREAT SMALL SCHOOLO.

Kyle - I know that you're upset but please, for the love of your children, don't resort to homeschooling.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

I agree with Kyle!

Enough is enough.

Why would we stay with FCPS?

They will screw us over again and I will not take that chance.

Private school is the answer.

I'm so glad I don't live in Clifton. Too many morons.
I hope they take the money they saved and give it to special Ed for blacks and hispanic kids. Ha ha ha.

And if you don't know the difference between your/you're, CES couldn't have been that great.

Another school whose enrollment was dropping--except they didn't close this one:

http://reston.patch.com/articles/whats-up-with-that-14

South Lakes HAD to have new students because their enrollment was dropping so much.....what a difference --no matter that they knew during the redistricting that Metro was coming.....
question: when do they send Floris back to Westfield?

Benz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm so glad I don't live in Clifton. Too many
> morons.
> I hope they take the money they saved and give it
> to special Ed for blacks and hispanic kids. Ha ha
> ha.
>
> And if you don't know the difference between
> your/you're, CES couldn't have been that great.

Now that we've seen the grammar they use in Clifton, now I see why they closed down that school. Its okay though, I'm sure all the crackheads in Clifton will make good use out of it.

going Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dell ave Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Clifton Elementary School will celebrate its
> > legacy of academic achievement, cherished
> > memories, and its relationship with the Clifton
> > community during an open house on Friday, June
> 17,
> > from 5:00 until 7:00 p.m. Student artwork and
> > writing will be on display, along with
> memorabilia
> > from previous years. There will be a multimedia
> > presentation along with music and light
> > refreshments. All former and current Clifton
> > Elementary School students, staff, parents, and
> > community members are invited to attend the
> event.
> > Due to parking constraints, please park in town
> > and walk up the hill to the school if at all
> > possible. Please contact the school office at
> > 703-988-8000 for further information.
> >
> > I wont miss this party. This is a great chance
> to
> > meet the worst, most selfish and petty human
> > beings that Fairfax county can produce. Should
> be
> > good for a laugh.
>
>
> can anyone go???????/? or do we had to go to that
> school in order to attend the party


It says members of the community are invited. If you are a county or town resident then you are invited.
How much you want to bet that some of the selfish clifton folk will get all bent if they cant drive their Lexus or other douchemobile to the top of the hill. They will show up late and then bitch because they have to walk.
I will be there early and get some pictures.

Like a virgin, touched for the very first time
Like a Vir-hir-hir-hir-gin...

Wow Kyle, U-mad?

It's obvious from your spelling (don't blame the phone now, Kyle) that you're a graduate of the Fairfax County School System.

Five kids? I thought Virginia had Eugenics laws...

Agreed. And now hookers can solicit in the CES parking lot.

Are the new tenants, hookers & crackheads, invited ??

Funny_Guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Benz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm so glad I don't live in Clifton. Too many
> > morons.
> > I hope they take the money they saved and give
> it
> > to special Ed for blacks and hispanic kids. Ha
> ha
> > ha.
> >
> > And if you don't know the difference between
> > your/you're, CES couldn't have been that great.
>
> Now that we've seen the grammar they use in
> Clifton, now I see why they closed down that
> school. Its okay though, I'm sure all the
> crackheads in Clifton will make good use out of
> it.

To Sir With Love Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like a virgin, touched for the very first time
> Like a Vir-hir-hir-hir-gin...
>
> Wow Kyle, U-mad?
>
> It's obvious from your spelling (don't blame the
> phone now, Kyle) that you're a graduate of the
> Fairfax County School System.
>
> Five kids? I thought Virginia had Eugenics
> laws...


Kyle should send his kid to Holy Spirit. He will get a great education but might get assraped from what I hear. May not be a bad tradeoff. Maybe the catholic church has put a stop to the assgames by now.

Benz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm so glad I don't live in Clifton. Too many
> morons.
> I hope they take the money they saved and give it
> to special Ed for blacks and hispanic kids. Ha ha
> ha.
>
> And if you don't know the difference between
> your/you're, CES couldn't have been that great.


Yes, my friends the Lawyers, Doctors, Ambassadors, CEOs, Venture Capitalists, entrepreneurs, Winery Owners, Retired FBI, Military Leaders and Computer Gurus are all morons. They must have been pretty fucking dumb to move to one of the most affluent and successful places in the world.

Please take your self-loathing, success-hating attitude and chain yourself to a box of sand.

Why don't you cry baby parents and kids shut the fuck up.
I went to three different elementary schools and to different middle schools.
Instead of bitching, just tell your kids to suck it up. Life go's on.

---------------------------------------------------
W.W.S.D. what would Scooby Doo

I went to Canterbury Woods back in the day, right next to Holy Spirit.
Was there a lot of ass-raping going on at Holy Spirit ??

Benz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went to Canterbury Woods back in the day, right
> next to Holy Spirit.
> Was there a lot of ass-raping going on at Holy
> Spirit ??


I have no idea if assrape took place there but it sure did a some catholic schools.
I was reffering to this thread that keeps popping up.
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/290843/582668.html#msg-582668

I call bullshit on this. No ambassador is commuting from Clifton. I have two families in my HOA with diplomatic plates and they are senior staff. And the only VC's in Clifton are the gook kind. Please don't delude yourself. Clifton isn't Menlo Park and Sand Hill Road. Median household income is a mere $111,000. Pathetic compared to the golden pentagon of McLean, Great Falls, Vienna, North Arlington and Oakton.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Benz Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm so glad I don't live in Clifton. Too many
> > morons.
> > I hope they take the money they saved and give
> it
> > to special Ed for blacks and hispanic kids. Ha
> ha
> > ha.
> >
> > And if you don't know the difference between
> > your/you're, CES couldn't have been that great.
>
>
> Yes, my friends the Lawyers, Doctors, Ambassadors,
> CEOs, Venture Capitalists, entrepreneurs, Winery
> Owners, Retired FBI, Military Leaders and Computer
> Gurus are all morons. They must have been pretty
> fucking dumb to move to one of the most affluent
> and successful places in the world.
>
> Please take your self-loathing, success-hating
> attitude and chain yourself to a box of sand.

Benz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I call bullshit on this. No ambassador is
> commuting from Clifton. I have two families in my
> HOA with diplomatic plates and they are senior
> staff. And the only VC's in Clifton are the gook
> kind. Please don't delude yourself. Clifton
> isn't Menlo Park and Sand Hill Road. Median
> household income is a mere $111,000. Pathetic
> compared to the golden pentagon of McLean, Great
> Falls, Vienna, North Arlington and Oakton.
>
> JBass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Benz Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I'm so glad I don't live in Clifton. Too
> many
> > > morons.
> > > I hope they take the money they saved and
> give
> > it
> > > to special Ed for blacks and hispanic kids.
> Ha
> > ha
> > > ha.
> > >
> > > And if you don't know the difference between
> > > your/you're, CES couldn't have been that
> great.
> >
> >
> > Yes, my friends the Lawyers, Doctors,
> Ambassadors,
> > CEOs, Venture Capitalists, entrepreneurs,
> Winery
> > Owners, Retired FBI, Military Leaders and
> Computer
> > Gurus are all morons. They must have been
> pretty
> > fucking dumb to move to one of the most
> affluent
> > and successful places in the world.
> >
> > Please take your self-loathing, success-hating
> > attitude and chain yourself to a box of sand.


BS? You dont think anybody commutes from Clifton to DC? You sir, are dense. Though in regards to the Ambassador comment, I was referencing a gentleman I know who did 25 years civil service, attained the Diplomatic rank of Ambassador at his last embassy and retired in Clifton after living nearly 20 years of his life in cities and countries on nearly every continent on the planet.

Said gentleman, has seen the best and the worst that this world can offer, can have a technical conversation in 5 languages and chose to make Clifton his home.

Who knew the inhabitants of Clifton were so testy? Oh well, I predict that Clifton will become the next Korea-town with half price sales on crack pipes and K12 from your friendly neighborhood MS13 members.

So..we're supposed to give a shit that a former ambassador lives in Clifton? You sound like a status obssed toady

”Suburban Segregation: How Fairfax County Integrated Its Public Schools"
http://www.yetmo.com/DESEG.htm


Spring, 1954, was a wondrous time and full of promise. The Supreme Court finally struck down the dreaded Plessy v. Ferguson separate but equal doctrine. I was graduating from college and was anxiously looking forward to a career in education as a teacher and, maybe someday, an athletic director.

With today's racial tension and turmoil, I began reminiscing about the days leading up to integration in Fairfax County, Virginia, public schools. Those were different times, new ground was being charted every day. Those days were many things: exhausting but exhilarating; tense yet titillating; fearful and fulfilling. What a great change occurred right under our noses. It is only when I look back can I see more clearly how such a significant social change happened. On one hand, it seemed so sudden and dramatic, yet it is was quite gradual and incremental, for complete integration did not arrive in Fairfax County schools until the 1965-1966 school year.

Allow me to tell you my story.

It was December 9, 1952, when I was a junior at Morehouse College in Atlanta, Georgia, that the case of Brown v. Board of Education was argued before the Supreme Court of the United States. The hopes and fears of my people hung in the balance. Blacks had suffered terribly in this country, the land of opportunity, ever since the first black, William, son of Anthony and Isabella, was born here in Jamestown, Virginia, in 1624. Our aspirations had been toyed with during the Civil War, reconstruction, and Plessy v. Ferguson. Our struggle was a continuous stream of up's and down's -- one day feeling that our salvation had come (emancipation), only to find failure and false starts were the results (Jim Crow laws). But this time it promised to be different. Blacks, excuse me, Negroes, had been integrated into the armed forces by now, and while many whites still couldn't accept us as equals, it appeared as though we were turning the corner. It was just that the corner was a lot bigger than I had expected.

So I waited. Waited for the Supreme Court to decide. After a year, I became skeptical, fearing that the Brown case had been swept under the rug, had disappeared. But when May 17, 1954, came and the Court ruled unanimously that separate was inherently unequal, I was ecstatic. Salvation had come at last for my people. And as for me, well, I had an interview scheduled with the Fairfax County Public School system, in Fairfax, Virginia, just outside Washington, D.C., right in the backyard of where that historic decision was made. I was thrilled and could barely contain my enthusiasm and excitement. Tomorrow was going to be a beautiful day.

Two months later I was hired as a teacher at the new Luther Jackson High School in Merrifield, Virginia. It was named after a famous Negro Virginian who distinguished himself in the navy and as a historian. I was both impressed and perplexed, for Luther Jackson was to be an all-black high school. How bizarre! Didn't the U.S. Supreme Court only a few weeks earlier say that separate was no longer equal? How could the County pursue such a strangely contradictory course? As best as I could figured it, this new facility was constructed because, before then, all Negroes attended high school either in Washington, D.C., or in Manassas, Virginia, at the Manassas Industrial School. In either case, tuition and a long-distance commute was necessary, unless you stayed with a friend or relative who lived near those schools or your parent/guardian was a federal government employee, in which case the Washington, D.C., school system allowed tuition-free attendance.

In any event, I was young, enthusiastic, and embarking on a new and exciting career. I was going to make the best of it, enjoy myself, and be the best teacher I could. I got to thinking that perhaps teaching at an all-Negro school was best. I could give something back to the community and help ready these students for the life challenges that awaited them. Those students planning on college could benefit from my instruction and with the promise of desegregated schools, who knows how many opportunities awaited them in the ever-improving future.

It didn't take long for my spirits to fall. It would be a gross understatement to say that the State of Virginia was not as favorably disposed toward the concept of desegregation as I had hoped. Senator Harry Byrd led the charge, and in a speech coined the phrase "massive resistance" that was to become the rallying cry throughout the state for years to come. Nearly all the air came out of my balloon. How could this happen? Hadn't the highest court in the land ruled? Hadn't it said that all American students had to receive education together, receive an equal opportunity to succeed and achieve the American Dream? Surely this anomaly would pass.

"Massive Resistance" did pass, but it took many years and many court battles. Prohibition taught that you can't legislate morality; I guess Brown v. Board of Education reinforced that. You couldn't legislate how others would feel towards their fellow man and woman. And while you could legislate how others would "act," it was not easy to enforce. Desegregation, therefore, was another form of morality and this provided another hard lesson learned.

But the courts didn't let us down. The battle was long and difficult but, by and large, forward progress continued, albeit slowly. It took so long, as a matter of fact, that it wasn't until September, 1960, as a result of Federal District Court Judge Bryan's decision, that the County first admitted Negroes to formerly all-white high schools. As a result, three Negroes were admitted to two schools, one to Groveton High School and two to James Madison. Prior to this, in July, 1960, the Fairfax County School Board, acting on 30 so-called "transfer" applications from Negroes for admission to all-white schools, ruled that only three first- and second-graders would be approved. The School Board planned to gradually implement desegregation by beginning in the lower grades and working up, one grade per school year, until all grades and schools would be integrated by the 1970-1971 school year. This process would take 11 years! I was crestfallen. Surely, the Supreme Court has hoped for implementation of their 1954 ruling in less than 16 years.

Of course, placing Negroes into all-white schools had to be considered and implemented in a deliberate fashion. Therefore, any Negro wishing to attend such a school had to complete an application that had to be submitted, reviewed, and approved by the School Board. Transfers among schools for white students, of course, required no such high-level review or control.

The die was cast. This was going to be a long and laborious process. Incrementalism would become the theology of school integration. But Judge Bryan's decision got the ball rolling. In addition to the School Board allowing three Negroes into all-white high schools six years after the historical Brown decision, 16 more were admitted to eight previously all-white schools by September 28, 1960, less than one week after Bryan's ruling. Further, by October 12, 1960, the School Board had allowed a total of 27 Negroes to integrate a total of nine schools. In addition to the two high schools, three intermediate and four elementary schools were effected. Of course, I followed these cases with keen interest and kept a dairy as best I could.

It appeared as though the integration inertia had been overcome. In the relatively short period of a week, two dozen Negroes were attending nearly a dozen schools. Of course, this was tokenism in its purest sense, to be sure, given that integration by definition could be accomplished with the mere presence of but one Negro, but symbolically it was extremely significant and encouraging. Unfortunately, I didn't realize what was about to happen.

In November, 1960, by the closest of votes, 4-3, the County School Board, voted to prohibit integrated interscholastic athletics. I was puzzled. How could the County have moved in the way it did less than two months earlier only to act in a manner which appeared to deny the reality of that decision? If schools were integrated, wouldn't athletics naturally become integrated, as would any other associated school activity? Where was the logic? Again, I found my spirits sinking, as I became increasingly frustrated and angry with the lack of progress.

My frustration was short-lived. Community reaction was swift and inspiring. Within three months, the School Board reversed itself due to student and PTA reaction, and an NAACP law suit. Some 2,000 students had signed a petition demanding that the athletic ban be overturned and the County PTA, by a vote of 30-5, not only wanted the athletic issue resolved, but also urged faster integration. Thus, not only the courts, but also parts of the community were coming to accept the reality and value of school integration. In February, 1961, in addition to striking down their earlier ban on integrated interscholastic athletics, the Board directed the Commonwealth's Attorney to prepare an ordinance allowing the county to withdraw from the jurisdiction of the state's pupil placement board so that desegregation efforts could proceed quicker. The State Placement Board grew out of the massive resistance movement and was a mechanism to hinder desegregation. Thus, the County had decided to step closer towards integration.

A few months later, in April, 1961, another 76 (of 86) transfer applications were approved by the School Board. This resulted in integrating another 10 previously all-white schools, bringing to 19 the total number of integrated schools. By now, Fairfax County was one of only three state jurisdictions (Arlington and Falls Church City were the others) that had asked to assume local pupil assignment authority.

Another year rolled around and more Negroes were transferred into all-white schools. In April, 1962, 108 applications were approved and another 11 schools were integrated, increasing the number of integrated schools to 30.

For the next 18 months to two years, nothing of significance or drama occurred. Gradual integration proceeded deliberately. In September, 1963, the NAACP filed suit accusing the School Board of foot-dragging, but Federal District Court judge Oren R. Lewis was not particularly sympathetic. He praised the County's movement to date and noted that a similar case had been brought earlier by the NAACP and was dismissed. When he learned of the previous case, Lewis was so angry with the NAACP attorneys for failing to share this information that he threatened to dismiss the case forthwith. However, the judge relented and heard the case due to the urging of five of the School Board's seven members who were present at the hearing. As a result of the hearing, the School Board agreed to develop a plan for complete desegregation, including a local pupil assignment policy.

By March, 1964, the NAACP appealed a ruling by Judge Lewis that upheld the County's desegregation plan. Interestingly, Oren Lewis felt that "Fairfax County schools were not being discriminatory despite the existence of 7 schools for Negroes." The all-Negro schools at the time were Luther Jackson High School and Carey, Drew-Smith, Oak Grove, Eleven Oaks, James Lee and Louise Archer elementary schools.

At the end of March, 1964, the Board met to propose the pupil assignment plan that judge Lewis ordered. Among the policy's features were that initial student assignments would be made without regard to race; 6th and 8th grade students would go to the next higher grade with fellow classmates; children would attend schools near their residences; and requests to attend more distant schools would go to the School Board for approval. Of course, the last feature frequently applied to Negroes, as they were not, as a group, generally living close to predominantly white schools. At the April 9, 1964, School Board meeting, Chairman William Hoofnagle announced that the new pupil assignment plan would be effective at the start of the 1964-65 school year. He also announced the closing of the all-Negro Oak Grove elementary school (bringing to six the number of all-Negro schools remaining in the County), stating that children would attend one of three nearby schools the following year. My "high" school, Luther Jackson, which actually taught students in grades 7-12, was to become a true "high school" (grades 9-12) in two years. Seventh grade students would attend neighborhood schools in the 1964-65 school year, making Luther Jackson serve grades 8-12 that year, but leaving it with only grades 9-12 beginning in 1965-66. In fact, the Board was also considering closing Luther Jackson altogether due to dwindling enrollment. That move did not succeed because of community reaction, but that's a different story for a different time.

It was very important to me when it was announced at that April School Board meeting that teacher transfers would also be made without regard to race. I was most interested, of course, as I felt that my career opportunities would remain intolerably limited had integration not come to pass. After all, my school was the only all-Negro high school and there were but so many opportunities for advancement in just one school. I realized that my motives were selfish, but I was an education professional who wanted to contribute to my field. The best way to do that was to have opportunity at a maximum number of locations throughout the school system.

I almost forgot. The School Board also announced in April that it "unanimously adopted a 'phasing-out' program" to desegregate schools. I suppose I forgot because it all seemed so anticlimactic, especially given the incremental approach that had been taken thus far. Perhaps the white community was comfortable with this approach, for it must be said that relatively little backlash and rancor occurred in County schools during integration. School Board officials from both Boards that were in place from 1960 through 1965 supported integration and had "no problem" with it. Maybe they felt that way because they had so much time to adjust to the idea. Of course, there were problems, but not nearly as bad as in other places, certainly not in other areas within Virginia (Prince Edward County) and other Southern states. Progress certainly could have occurred quicker but, all things considered, you take what you can and do your best.

Again the Courts entered the picture. The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals permanently enjoined Fairfax County from continuing segregation and had observed that sufficient and timely progress towards an integrated system had not occurred. The County had assigned only 800 of the County's 2,500 Negro students to formerly all-white schools. County school officials said that it would be impossible to redistribute, in an orderly manner, the system's 80,000 students within the three short months before the next school year began. But the School Board's attorney said that the County officials "were not interested in massive resistance" and would not appeal the decision.

At this point I can only imagine the behind-the-scenes scurrying that was necessary to bring full integration to reality. At last, it was apparent that nothing less than complete desegregation would do. The time had come. In November, the Board announced something of significance to me. Luther Jackson would not close, but would serve as an integrated intermediate school starting with the next school year (1965-66). All County seventh and eight grade students would be assigned to Luther Jackson without regard to race based on the recently approved pupil assignment plan.

The process was nearly complete. At the January 28, 1965, School Board meeting, a proposal was presented for complete integration effective at the start of the 1965-66 school year. Disposition of the five remaining all-Negro elementary schools was discussed. Only Louise Archer would function as an integrated general education school; the others would either be used as storage facilities or special education centers. At a meeting one night, I remember several white parents vehemently reacting to keeping Louise Archer. They wanted it to go the way of the other all-Negro buildings, away from the mainstream of general education.

B. Oswald Robinson was the long-time principal at Louise Archer after Ms. Archer passed away in 1948. He was also at that meeting and said he had never been so frightened in his entire life. And he had served in the Navy during World War II, too. He was principal at Louise Archer from 1948 until his retirement from the school system in 1970. Those were challenging times for everyone. Although we Negroes felt that progress was far too slow, clearly there were still many whites who believed things were moving either too quickly or in the wrong direction altogether.

But Mr. Robinson had an idea to deal with the tension that was remarkably direct and effective. He went to the Post Office one day and bought post cards for every student who would be entering Archer that September. He had all the teachers write a welcoming note to each of their students identifying the class to which they had been assigned and where their rooms were located. On opening day, "things went smoothly," Mr. Robinson said. The sound of the children's shoes clicking furiously as they excitedly searched for their homerooms was music to his ears. He had almost forgotten the three security guards who were quietly dispatched to Archer for his protection in the event of any untoward negative community reaction. There was none and the guards left before day's end noting to Mr. Robinson that everything was peaceful and that he didn't need them anymore. So, one potentially volatile problem was defused and full integration was well on its way.

There were complaints and disagreements, to be sure, among many people and not only whites. One Negro couple in Vienna, the Marions, asked the NAACP to file suit to prevent three of their four children from being sent to Flint Hill school as opposed to staying at Louise Archer, which was only four blocks from their house. Mr. Marion said that integration was "a terrible thing" and felt it was detrimental to the Negro children. "It's the kids that suffer," he said, adding that they were not welcomed in these schools and that whites "don't know how to teach black kids." In the end, Mr. Marion, too, dropped his suit and, with some reluctance, became another member of the citizenry that was going to have to adjust and accept the social reality of integration.

In March, Superintendent Funderburk talked more about plans for integration and announced that 10 Negro teachers had already been assigned to teach last year in all-white schools. What a surprise that news must have been to some folks. Funderburk also announced that teacher seminars would be conducted Countywide to deal with the challenges faced by teachers of one race teaching students of another. Federal money ($53,500) was even awarded to the County for this purpose. The money was to pay teachers who would be taking this instruction. Of course, what was not noted was that in the prior year, Negro teachers had to attend such classes two nights each week, but without pay or professional credit for the training.

When the decision was officially and finally announced at the June 8, 1965, School Board meeting that all Fairfax County schools would be integrated that Fall, I realized the history in my midst. I thought back to that original School Board proposal in July, 1960, that would have integrated schools in 11 years. Well, the County beat that schedule, but not by much -- only five years. In the scheme of slavery, emancipation, reconstruction, and Jim Crow, five years didn't amount to much. But I was grateful and pleased, nevertheless. Nothing worth having is easy and this certainly illustrated that maxim.

Things worked out well for me. The promise of a decade earlier was fulfilled. I was asked to transfer to W.T. Woodson High School the first year of full integration (1965-66). I thrived there and was fortunate to have sponsors who promoted my interests and career. I became principal at two County high schools and retired from the school system as such. But reminders of slow progress remained. In August, 1967, 13 years after Brown, 75% of Virginia's Negroes -- I guess I should be saying "black" now -- still attended segregated schools.

It looked as though we still had a few challenges left ahead of us.

++++
Fred W. Apelquist, III, M.Ed.

NOT everyone in the community support keeping Clifton Elementary School open. Many of us (two of my children attended Clifton) in the “community” recognize that the school is old, the water supply is bad and there are effective alternatives.

The school Board has properly decided that limited funds need to be used to educate children, not to meet the entitlement fantasies of the parents demanding that “their” school be preserved.

Of course there are people that commute from Clifton to DC. Who else will clean the toilets, cook lunch and mow the lawns in DC? Anyway, I'm glad they are closing that POS elementary school. Way to go Jack Dale!!

I live in Clifton.

Frank, you’re the first person I’ve seen who is not in favor of keeping the school open.

The School Board decision doesn’t seem to make any fiscal sense when the cost of the renovations to the school are equal to the costs of building a new facility elsewhere. If they’re both the same cost and most of the community wants to keep the school open, why not accede to their wishes?

I don’t think this is an entitlement fantasy at all. Do the folks who use the school not have a right to make their voices heard?

There must be something special about that school that the parents of the students there are more concerned about keeping it open than they are about water issues or the age of the facilities.

We are a nice community. Our kids have done nothing wrong.

We just wanted our local school kept open.

We are ready to move on but I think others outside of Clifton are not.

Build new versus renovate can be a complex and difficult decision process when there is a significant cost differential. Build new provides a facility with more modern and efficient electrical, HVAC, plumbing, and telecommunications backbone, something that cannot be equaled with renovation. Plus, build new provides a much longer useful life expectancy than renovation. Build new typically produces a facility with a 25 year expectancy before renovation. Renovation provides 10 years or less.

When the costs are roughly equal, it quickly becomes a no-brainer. Of course, that assumes that you are a facilities management professional and not a politician. The School Board got it right, esp. if you take into account the declining enrollment in Clifton.

Welcome to the 21st Century, Clifton, where the neighborhood school is no longer affordable.

There’s more to this than just the building. The community has an attachment to this school – one that can’t be quantified simply by saying a new school will last longer than renovating the old one.

Having spent some time in facilities management, managing 100 year old+ buildings, I recognize the issues with renovation vs. build new. However, at some point the non-quantifiable benefits of renovation over building new tip the balance.

I think given the school’s location, the community’s desire to keep the school open, the inconsequential cost differential, and the issues with the other sites, this was a bad decision.

What is worse is Liz Bradsher abandoning her constituents.

We wish.

Now all of us are stuffed like sardines in 3 different schools.

FCPS lied to everyone.

I guess you will not care till they do it to you.

Brian,

Community attachment is all well and good. However, what the good people of Clifton are asking the rest of us Fairfax County taxpayers to do is to pay a premium to renovate a school with dwindling enrollment instead of building a new school more centrally located for the maximum number of county residents. That is just plain selfish.

I will state this as delicately as I can. The parents of Clifton would rather send their children to a school with contaminated water and, mostly likely, asbestos issues than send them to a brand new school outside of Clifton. Is it possible that the motivation is no so much attachment to Clifton Elementary but a desire to keep their kids inside their exclusive and insular community where they don’t have to associate with the children of “those other kinds of people?”

Liz did not abandon her constituents if she was voting for the overall best interests of Fairfax County taxpayers, esp. those who live in her district but not in Clifton. Those are the ones who will benefit most from her vote with a new elementary school.

BTW, Brian,

I don’t know Liz Bradsher and don’t know why everyone from you to Ben Tribbet seem to hate her. But I will say this. Knowing that she was alienating a group of very well-heeled voters in Clifton by doing the right thing instead of cowardly hiding behind a 6-vote majority, as you suggested she do, was right up there with John Kennedy’s Profiles in Courage.

Roc, the enrollment may be dwindling now, but that isn’t irreversible and those enrollment numbers are only estimates anyway.

The new school location proposed is 3 miles from the current location. 3 miles isn’t an inconvenience to anyone.

The parents of Clifton have every right to want a school within the boundaries of their village, as they have had for the last 80 years.

Liz represents Springfield, which includes Clifton. She’s my school board member. I supported keeping the school open, and I know many of my fellow residents who were aware of the issue did too – because we know that it could be our local school they shut down next.

The people who will benefit most from a school in Clifton are the same people who don’t want a new school in Clifton. Their opinions should matter more than those who aren’t immediately affected.

Brian,

With all due respect, I am afraid that I don’t follow you. If three miles is not an inconvenience to anyone, then why sacrifice fiscal responsibility for sentimentality?

As for whose opinion matters more, anyone who pays property taxes in Fairfax County is immediately affected by this decision.

Roc, three miles makes a difference for the residents affected. It may not make a difference for you or for me, but we’re not the ones who have to live with this decision.

There’s a place for sentimentality. There’s a place for tradition and respecting history. And there’s a place for listening to what your constituents want.

Yes, anyone who pays property taxes is affected, but not immediately. No one’s taxes are going to go up if they renovated the school rather than building a new one. But the parents of the students in that school are directly affected. They will be the ones watching as their kids are distributed to five different schools, torn from their friends and teachers. They’ll be the ones explaining to their kids why they can’t go back to their old school. I think that gives them more of a voice in this decision.

Brian,

BTW, if making the less economical decision in order to keep a neighborhood school, then why don’t the residents of Clifton ask the Board of Supervisors to create a Special Tax District in Clifton to pay for it? I would be fine with that.

We don’t have any children, but we have happily paid property taxes for most of our adult lives because we believe that education is the third most important function of local government after public safety and health inspections. I’m just not willing to pay for someone else’s private neighborhood school when the greater public interest can be best served otherwise.

Roc,

The problem is that has nothing to do with money at all. The school board promised Clifton that if they could get the total cost of renovation down to between $10-12 million they would keep the school. The residents managed to meet that benchmark, but they still closed it.

This is about politics, and its wrong. This is a top performing school that did not need to be closed at all.

local GOP,

So you’re telling me that the original estimates for renovating Clifton Elementary was MORE than the cost of building a new school?

How did the residents “meet that benchmark?” By continuing to use bottled water instead of connecting to Fairfax Water, by minimizing the asbestos abatement, by keeping the building energy inefficient, or by simply cooking the books on the renovation costs?

I’m sorry, but renovating this 50+ year-old school versus building a new one for the same cost that will serve more county residents is like putting lipstick on a pig.

This is not about politics. This is about fiscal responsibility in one of the counties that has the highest school budgets in the entire country. And perhaps if the students in this “top performing school” joined the student body of other nearby schools, then they could help raise test scores across the entire district.

Of course, then they would have classmates who are children of “those other kinds of people not like us.”

There is a reason that it is called “public education.” If you want your kids to be sheltered in an insular, exclusive environment, then send them to private schools. But don’t ask me to pay for it.

Roc, which is it? If the school is currently serving a declining population as you said earlier, how is moving it 3 miles going to serve more county residents?

You’re acting like this issue is some kind of veiled form of segregation. That’s nonsense. Clifton has a 80% white population. The five schools around it that these students will end up going to have the following demographics – Union Mill 71%, Oak View 65%, Sangster 70%, Silverbrook 51%, Fairview 67%. Even the most diverse school these kids could end up is still over half white. There’s nothing racist about wanting the school to stay where it is. Do the school demographics change if it moves 3 miles away? No. C’mon.

This isn’t about sheltering the kids – as you already noted, if they wanted that, they could simply send their kids to private school. This is Clifton we’re talking about – it’s not like most of the folks there couldn’t afford it.

The FCPS is about as fiscally responsible as the federal government. Is this honestly the best place where we can put our feet down and demand fiscal responsibility? I don’t think so. Clifton is a very old community that takes pride in its history and heritage. At the very least, the FCSB should respect that.

Liz Bradshear made a terrible decision, an inexplicable one. Even if she knew she would lose, and her vote wouldn’t matter, she should have supported her constituents. Wasn’t that what she was elected to do? Her career just came to a screeching halt.

Any thoughts on who will run for her seat next year? I don’t see republicans endorsing her. If I were on the committee, I would not vote to endorse her because we know she won’t represent the voters, or their children.

Roc,

I cant believe you are actually suggesting that the SB move smart kids to other schools to increase the average scores at underperforming schools. Talk about putting lipstick on a pig. That’s exactly a maneuver that the Jack Dale cronies do all the time; shuffling the gifted and talented kids around to bolster test averages. its fake.

Also, no, nothing to do with bottled water. Clifton community met the benchmark and solved the water problem. The water meets acceptable standards from what I have heard.

LL, honestly, this whole thing – coupled with what I’ve heard of her past behavior – makes me want to consider running there myself.

There are plenty of good folks who, if they stepped up, would be great for this seat. I hope we can find someone who’d be willing to step up.

Being a school board member is a thankless job for very little money but requiring many hours of work. I don’t know how we would get any sane person to want to run for school board! But Liz has got to go. If she can’t represent her constituents, she shouldn’t get their votes.

I just want to chime in with localgop (since I rarely get the chance to agree in other areas!) The real issue here is that ONCE AGAIN the school board has played bait and switch with the citizens of Fairfax County. In this case, it’s the particular citizens of Clifton, but anyone who follows the school board issues has felt the sting of this particular tactic. I knew the moment I saw the outcome just which school board member had voted which way, not because they had ties to Clifton, but because this is how it is.

The board announces that X might happen. Community rallies together (and both Democrats and Republicans rally together more often than not, in my experience) and try to keep X from happening. School board plays coy, and says, ok, if you do Y, then we’ll consider not doing X. Community does Y, and then X happens anyway.

Maybe you legitimately feel that the Clifton school should close. But for many of us, this particular issue is only part of a long standing siege that many of us feel under as parents and volunteers within Fairfax County Public Schools.

(wry tone) One of the few good things to come out of such a fight is that I often, like now, have much more in common with my Republican friends than I otherwise might!

QUOTE: "And perhaps if the students in this “top performing school” joined the student body of other nearby schools, then they could help raise test scores across the entire district."

That has been the rationale that the Clifton parents believe has been behind this decision all along. Why actually address the performance of other schools by real educational means when you can game the scores by closing Clifton and using those kids to manipulate the statistics? I have had grandkids at Clifton and this is simply hideous and incredibly destructive for a historic small community. The same issues are at play in Loudoun with the small rural schools there. It simply seems that local governments talk a lot about communities but then take actions to destroy them when they really exist.

Roc,

Clifton parents have spent thousands of hours pursuing every logical, “win/win” solution imaginable for the better part of a year, but were never “heard” by the majority of the FCPS Board.

Insinuating that this has anything to do with race or socio-economic status, shows your ignorance of the facts and dubious motivations behind this Board’s decision. As we say in NYC: “Ga’head!” You keep on believing that we’re all white, that we’re all rich, that we haven’t implored the Board to bring additional students to this site; that we don’t simply want to retain a century-old community school. “Just you wait, Henry Higgins!” They’ll be gunning for your community school next. Talk to you then…

Supervisor Pat Herrity's most recent newsletter includes some interesting info about the CES closure. Seems like most of the "facts" proffered in support of closing the school were made-up bullshit (i.e., standard operating procedure for FCPS, FCPD, etc.).

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/430530/585111.html#msg-585111

BTW, Roc…

The National Trust, VA Dept of Historic Preservation, Preservation Virginia, memebers of the Virginia Senate and House of Delegates implored the Board not to do this and offered reasonable, credible solutions that would spare FC taxpayers any expenditure. Those letters and calls were never returned.

Independent, unaffiliated supporters offered to fund the full scale renovation or to simply pay for the well upgrade. Their offers never received a response.

There may be some discrimination afoot in this instance, but not on the part of those who intend to keep this community anchor around to celebrate its centennial.

The school fine.

The SB lied.

I guess most patents in Fairfax think that is ok.

Every taxpayer in Fairfax County better understand that the FCPS Board controls $3.2B+ (‘B’ as in BILLION) in spending – $1B in federal/supplemental subsidies and the rest…53.5% of every single tax dollar in Fairfax County.
With this stranglehold on the Board of Supervisors, someone better wake up and realize that the public torture and beheading that they just performed on the Clifton and Fairfax/Fairfax Station area residents is coming to our communities next.
FCPS Board Work Session: “The standard new FCPS elementary school is a 38-classroom facility with a design capacity for 950 students.” July 13, 2009
If you don’t want your elementary age children going to a school just shy of ONE THOUSAND students – and they will because the Board wants it – then get up to speed, quickly.
Does your community have a school smaller than 950 students? This is your fight.
Does your community have a school underenrolled? This is your fight.
Does your community have a school that has not yet been renovated? This is your fight.
Does your community have a school without a sprinkler system? This is your fight.
Do you have unlimited cash to fund a Board whose spending has escalated 33% for only a 10% increase in student enrollment? NO? This is your fight.

In other words – the Board is out of control. Rogue. Loose cannons willing to mow down neighborhoods, split communities, close schools which can be renovated, build schools where they are not needed or build too many seats where not needed, ignore best management practices, accept wild variances in projection estimates and ignore community engagements, professional recommendations, national and state leaders in historic preservation…they will DO ANYTHING to get their way. And we, our students, our neighborhood schools, our communities and our tax dollars are in their sight. Strike that…in their crosshairs.

Listen folks, there is a litmus test – pure and simple.
Is the Ffx Cty School Board serving the interests of student and the County in general? Good schools mean good neighborhoods, communities, business, investment – and the Commonwealth booms and we are all served well.
We have spent decades trying to build a strong economy in this County and attract world class businesses to come and invest in doing business in the County. As the school system slides and starts imploding, the ramifications are something that will affect us for decades to come – *probably after I’m 6 feet under*.
This Ffx Cty School Board steam rolling schools, parents, families and students is a bad deal and undermines the strategic efforts put into making this County what it is today.
If you don’t think it matters – it is already showing up in the national media in terms of our County’s school rankings:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/37516042
In the Education ranking, Virginia fell from last year’s ranking of 7th to its 2010 spot at 13th
“Education – 2010
Education and business go hand in hand. Not only do companies want to draw from an educated pool of workers, they want to offer their employees a great place to raise a family. Higher education institutions offer companies a source to recruit new talent, as well as a partner in research and development. We looked at traditional measures of K-12 education including test scores, class size and spending. We also considered the number of higher education institutions in each state.”
You need to start dialing your phones (email if you have to, but folks take time to pick up your phone!) to get talking with the Virginia legislature and let them know this is not acceptable for the well-being of the County’s economic health nor the Commonwealth’s.

Liz Bradsher should not get the Republican endorsement again. Besides the fact that other Republicans such as Tim Hugo and Pat Herrity, now have less than favorable things to say about her, by closing Clifton she has completely divorced herself from her campaign promises. This does not reflect positively on Republicans. Dave Albo will still support her but since he was also one of her financial supporters during her campaign, it is unlikely he will ever say anything negative.

My kids are going to private school next year.

The parents in Fairfax seem not care about others. I guess their kids are the same.

Bye CES. We will miss you.

To those who think this decision had anything to do with fiscal responsibility…

1. If cost was such an issue… was the CES community given a chance to raise funds to offset the incremental costs for a CES renovation vs. a “lower cost per student renovation”? NO (Precedent: Herndon residents were allowed to raise funds for their a turf field, I think it was).

2. If cost was such an issue…. did the FCPS staff or school board do an analysis of the post-closure costs? NO – in fact, they don’t even know what post-closure looks like (e.g. boundary study, bus routes, school additions, new school, more faux-community involvment, etc.) NONE of those costs were brought forth. Keep in mind that the new school on the Liberty site has been scrapped so that cost is n/a.

3. If cost was such an issue… did FCPS or the School Board research the funding that might be received from the Historical Society? NO – of course not.

I could go on and on. But if anyone out there really thinks this decision was made in a fiscally responsible manner, then you are simply not familiar with the details of this debacle.

“The School Board doesn’t understand the value of the people they represent. It’s time the School Board responds to the needs of its constituents.”

They’re “shortsighted” – “students are being moved out of schools that “aren’t that overcrowded,” taking time away from families for uncertain purposes.”

“Boundary changes upset communities because parents are so extended already.”

…Some residents in the Springfield District have called for her to step down, believing she’s ineffective as a representative.
“We need the sort of person who knows the issues of the district, who knows who are the parties involved and who you must coalesce with to get issues resolved,”

“There’s been dormancy in the Springfield District for a while now and that’s unfortunate.”

Author…
Betrayed Clifton Elementary parents?
Angry Clifton residents?
Disgruntled taxpayers?
“Mean” PTA members?
FEC members?
A political adversary?

You are going to LOVE this:

Elizabeth Bradsher, September 2007
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=87192&paper=61&cat=104

I’m still upset about the vote to close Clifton Elementary school, so I started doing some digging. Here’s something I found very interesting- in 2007, Liz Bradsher went out of her way to promote “community schools.” Yet she just voted to close one down and leave the residents of Clifton up in the air about what will happen to their kids. Did she really change this much in three years? The more I read, the more this smacks of politics and less of principle.

Here’s Liz Bradsher’s 2007 campaign website. Her “latest update” reads as follows:

Dear Residents:

During the past several weeks I have been grateful to have received endorsements from:


1.The Fairfax Education Association (FEA) representing over 70% of the teachers in Fairfax County.
2.The SLEEP organization which represents over 8000 concerned residents for implementing a later bell schedule for county high schools.
These days I have been busy meeting the many District parents at back to school nights at our area schools and in other forums. This has given me an opportunity to view the schools and to listen to the parents about their various educational concerns.

One clear concern is the issue of maintaining neighborhood schools. I fully support the concept of neighborhood community schools. For 5 years I worked to get a school built in record time through innovative financing measures which saved the school system over $16 million dollars. I did this so that the residents in the South County area could be afforded what many other area residents already had, a community school. I know what a community school means to all the families and residents of the Springfield district.

Community schools are important to all residents. A community school is the nucleus or center of the community from where it draws. These schools provide a community identity for students, parents and their neighborhoods. This identity is key to the success of the school, the students, teachers and organizations that give it life and ultimately the key to success for the overall community.

As your School Board representative I will work hard to maintain community schools in the Springfield District as well as in the rest of Fairfax County. I don’t approve of breaking long standing communities up for the sake of unwarranted boundary modifications. Personally, I have witnessed too many boundary town meetings which have torn communities apart and resulted in negative outcomes.

There is no substitute in this county for a community school.

Really? Then why did you just vote to close one?

This is the kind of vote and decision that turns people off to politics. How can you say on your campaign website that you support community schools, leave it up there for three years, and then vote to shut down what is the epitome of a community school?

Something doesn’t smell right here.

A politician says one thing to get elected and then does something else once faced with the reality of public policy?

I’m shocked, yes shocked!

Brian,

Like I said, this has nothing to do with funding, this is about Jack Dale saying ‘jump’, and Liz says ‘how high’.

I love the "threats" by CES parents to go private. Makes me think of the scene in Blazing Saddles where the guy threatens to shoot himself. Go ahead. Go private. Who cares?

TJ alone sends 30 kids a year to Princeton. MIT admissions has called the TJ the best school in the country. Nothing beats the FCPS academic track if you have the talent. I have classmates that did TJ -> Harvard -> Carlyle Group. Go ahead. Go Private.

Roc, I recognize that this kind of thing happens quite a bit, but it’s rare to see such a blatant example of it.

She’s left that post up on the website for three years. Did she expect no one would find it?

Who cares?

Roc,

You need to get your facts straight before engaging in a debate that you clearly don't know enough about to argue intelligently.

Allow me to clue you in on some of the truths about Clifton and CES.



Roc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian,
>
> Community attachment is all well and good.
> However, what the good people of Clifton are
> asking the rest of us Fairfax County taxpayers to
> do is to pay a premium to renovate a school with
> dwindling enrollment instead of building a new
> school more centrally located for the maximum
> number of county residents. That is just plain
> selfish.

----- The enrollment is not dwindling. In fact, it increased this year. BTW, are you aware that when FCPS calculated the projected enrollment for CES they failed to include the entire boundary area that attends CES. That's right - they intentionally excluded 2 of the highest density areas of Clifton that currently attend CES. CES is attended by children living in 3 different zip codes: 20124, 22039 and 22030. Yet, FCPS only included 20124 in their projection. Why do you think that is??? Maybe so they could manipulate the figures and claim that renovating CES would be more expensive??? Add those 2 areas back into the projected enrollment (100+ kids) and suddenly the cost to renovate is actually less than many other schools in FCPS.

As for being centrally located, well, guess what? Now you have an area of Fairfax County consisting of over 40 square miles without a school at all. Seems to me that CES were perfectly located to serve those 40 sq. miles as it's done for close to 100 years. Oh and that new school you mentioned....yeah, not gonna happen!


> I will state this as delicately as I can. The
> parents of Clifton would rather send their
> children to a school with contaminated water and,
> mostly likely, asbestos issues than send them to a
> brand new school outside of Clifton. Is it
> possible that the motivation is no so much
> attachment to Clifton Elementary but a desire to
> keep their kids inside their exclusive and insular
> community where they don’t have to associate
> with the children of “those other kinds of
> people?”

------WOW! Where to begin... okay, let's take this one point at a time, shall we?
A) The water is not contaminated, never was. Yes, we have proof of that, straight from FCPS.
B) Asbestos - every school in Fairfax County built more than 25 years ago contains asbestos. But while we're on the subject of asbestos, that new school that you mentioned, it was to be built on a plot of land entirely covered with naturally occurring asbestos. If you want to argue asbestos hazards, you don't argue in favor of building a new school on top of asbestos.
C) "those other kinds of people?" - That is such a tired argument already. The schools that our children are being sent to have very similar demographics to CES. Not to mention, what do you people think we do? Stand on the side of Clifton Rd. with signs saying stay out if you're not white? Give me a break already. The 3 schools taking kids from CES are all excellent schools. That was never an issue.


> Liz did not abandon her constituents if she was
> voting for the overall best interests of Fairfax
> County taxpayers, esp. those who live in her
> district but not in Clifton. Those are the ones
> who will benefit most from her vote with a new
> elementary school.

----Again, there is NO NEW SCHOOL being built. Nobody benefits from this decision and yes, Liz Bradsher did abandon her constituents and lie to us repeatedly for over 2 years. Karma is a bitch and I can't wait for it to bite Bradsher in the ass.

It is going to cost MORE for county taxpayers to close this school than it would have to renovate it. That is a fact, whether you like to admit it or not.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/05/lessons-learned-first-battle-clifton

herewegoagain,

You make it sound like FCSB is closing and tearing down Mount Vernon. Get a grip. CE doesn’t even come close to fitting in with the architecture and ambiance of Clifton. It is a butt-ugly, Soviet-style, minimalist red brick blockhouse.

As to the size of CE and the location of a replacement school, you are right. No one is saying that CE is too small. In fact it is too large for the school population that it supports, a population that is getting smaller and smaller. As to the replacement school, the decision to build one versus redistributing the students to other schools has not even been made yet, as far as I know. Presumably, if the FCSB decides to build it I would imagine that they would site it where it serves the largest clusters of students currently traveling the farthest to school.

You and I are going to have to just agree to disagree. Just because the FCPS has not demonstrated fiscal responsibility in the past, an assertion that I do not concede, does not mean that there is no reason to do so now. As the famous saying goes, “if not here, where? If not now, when?”

Fiscal responsibility and trusting market forces has to start somewhere, why not in Clifton? Clifton residents will have the ability, paid for through their property taxes, to send their children to a public school in Fairfax County. No one is taking that away. There are plenty of families all throughout this state who have had to deal with dislocations through closed schools and fired teachers because we can’t afford to pay for everything with the current tax base.

Lynn Sweet said it exactly right in the Chicago Sun-Times last week:

“No wonder America is getting it all wrong when it comes to government, and taxes, and policy. We all act as if the “lemonade” or benefits we’re “giving away” is free.”

Money for school renovation is not free and there are plenty of other options for Clifton residents.

CS, we’re not dealing with the free market here. I’m sure that if the residents of Clifton could stop buying property taxes and instead just pay for their local school, they’d do it. But they don’t have that luxury. It makes no sense to force them to abandon a school they want to build a new school they don’t want and don’t need.

This isn’t a question of fiscal conservatism because it’s not likely that the new school option will save any money in the short term. And if we’re talking about age of facilities, I would think that the school has already paid for itself with it’s longevity.

No one is saying that these benefits are free. Everyone recognizes that the residents of Clifton are paying for their services – in fact, given the higher property values in that area of the county, they are likely subsidizing the rest of the county. The least they should expect is for their own representative on the School Board to stand with them.

Also, I don’t care if you are a Democrat or a Republican, but you want your elected officials to actually care about their constituents more than rubber stamping whatever the superintendent says. Again, you can argue that this is the right move or the wrong move (I happen to think it’s the wrong move) but more troubling than this is the pattern too many school board members have set when it comes to pitting community against Jack Dale and his immediate inner circle.

Clifton ES is at 98% capacity.
374 students

Lowest # of students in over 15 years?
366 students

How is the school too big for its enrollment? Unless you factor in fictitious birth rate numbers by the County.

Don’t post on what you don’t know.
Clifton ES is served by THREE zip codes across 40 miles. Why then, do the FCPS stats for birth rates only include the 20124 zip code? That is fraud. Especially when the greatest density of students draws from the remaining zip codes.

gretchen has hit the nail on the head. there are only 3 members of the current board that are worth anything, Reed, Hone, and Evans. simple as that.

Let’s face it, FCPS does what they want. They have no need to justify anything. It’s a monopoly that everyone has to pay for, like it or not. They won’t even allow charter schools! it’s their fiefdom and they aren’t going to give up one ounce of control.

Pardon me, Captain Spaulding, but the assumption that all families who have students attending Clifton are wealthy or “well-heeled” is a misconception that has been grossly exaggerated and perpetuated by media.

My family and I live in a very simple, middle class home just a few houses from the school boundary line. We moved here on the advice of physicians and clinicians who treat our childrens developmental delays. Private and parochial schools we explored simply did not have the staff or resources to properly address those needs. As far as I know, we won’t be receiving any “inheritance” to pay to put our children into private schools as a result of this solely political, completely dubious decision.

So yo uare aware, a private citizen offered to “comp” the entire school renovation if the Board would rename the school and they turned her down. Citizens offered to chip in an pay to fix the well and the Board turned them down. The National Trust, VA Dept of Historic Resources and Preservation Virginia ALL begged for the chance to help the Board find private and public funding to resolve this at a fraction of FCPS staff projected costs, but their letters and calls were never returned.

Clifton parents have been true in their methods and modes. I wish I could say the same for some members of this School Board.

Several posters now have made veiled accusations of some sinister motives on the part of the FCSB that have nothing to do with budgets or the economic analysis of build new versus renovate. Could you be so kind as to explain exactly what you believe these motives to be?

The five schools that border Clifton are Union Mill, Willow Springs, Fairview, Oak View and Sangster.

FCPS is projecting that all these schools will be under-enrolled, but it appears that one of the challenges is that the schools that might entail the shortest bus rides for many Clifton students, such as Union Mill and Willow Springs, also will be considered when FCPS tries to alleviate the over-crowding at some of the other schools in the area, such as Centreville, Powell and Eagle View.

It seems pretty clear that there will be a major redistricting, at least at the elementary level, in that part of the county over the next five years. As a result, either some of the middle/high school assignments will change as well, or FCPS will end up creating a bunch of new "split feeders" (elementary schools that send their students to multiple middle and high schools).

My friend was explaining this to me--about the Fairfax pyramid system and he said that the Clifton ES is in a specific pyramid (feeding to Robinson I believe) and he didn't know how that was going to work since Willow Springs does not feed to Robinson. I acted like it wasn't a big deal because Prince William County schools have had "split feeder" schools all along. I explained to him that my kids went to an elementary school where 90% of the students left that elementary school and went on a specific middle school to high school track, while the other 10% (based on where they lived) splinter off to different middle and high schools. Naturally, my kids fell in this 10% and it wasn't fun.

I wouldn't say that Oakview and Sangster 'border' Clifton. Oakview is across from Robinson and even though Clifton students go to Robinson, its a haul. Sangster is down 123 south of Lee Chapel. Thats quite a ways too. Both of these schools have great reputations but they sure don't qualify as neighborhood schools for Clifton, not to mention the distance the school buses will travel.

The list I was given of schools the Clifton students will be split between are:

Sangster, Silverbrook, Fairview, Oakview and Union Mill.

What a mess!

School Boards hate, hate, hate having to do large-scale boundary changes. It's the worst thing they ever deal with because of the emotions generated. That's not a judgment on whether all the emotionalism is justified -- some of it probably is, some of it probably isn't -- just that it causes a lot of intensity and hard feelings no matter what they do.

All I'd meant is that the five Fairfax elementary schools whose boundaries currently surround (border) those of Clifton ES are Union Mill, Willow Springs, Fairview, Oak View and Sangster. In comparison, you probably would have to go through areas currently assigned to Sangster to get to Silverbrook ES from the current Clifton ES attendance area.

I didn't check to see how most of those schools are to the village of Clifton itself, although I gather Sangster is quite a distance.

One of the things that I read recently is that, even though FCPS had other options, the School Board decided to close Clifton ES to send a message to the Board of Supervisors that it was going to start making some very unpopular decisions if the Board of Supervisors didn't allocate as much money to FCPS as requested. Budgetary constraints may require tough decisions in any event, but the suggestion was that FCPS could have given this a bit more time before deciding to shut down the school.

You've got that right! For some unknown reason, the School Board decided that they wanted to build a new school and close Clifton. Nothing would dissuade them. Logic and costs are never considerations, much less the desires of the people who pay the bills, the taxpayer.

See more information here: Liz Bradsher in her own words – “There is no substitute in this county for a community school.” | Common Sense Also here: Fairfax County School Board gets it wrong on Clifton Elementary | Common Sense

See if you can find Liz Bradsher's comments under a phony nic. Hint, she's defending herself! She gave the school closing lots of ''thought'' only to come up with wrong vote. Stick a fork in Liz, her political career is done.

ChristineVA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My friend was explaining this to me--about the
> Fairfax pyramid system and he said that the
> Clifton ES is in a specific pyramid (feeding to
> Robinson I believe) and he didn't know how that
> was going to work since Willow Springs does not
> feed to Robinson. I acted like it wasn't a big
> deal because Prince William County schools have
> had "split feeder" schools all along. I explained
> to him that my kids went to an elementary school
> where 90% of the students left that elementary
> school and went on a specific middle school to
> high school track, while the other 10% (based on
> where they lived) splinter off to different middle
> and high schools. Naturally, my kids fell in this
> 10% and it wasn't fun.

Thanks Christine. I tried to find the enrollment numbers for the schools, but wasn't able to. I will have to dig deeper.

It would make sense to send Clifton students to Willow Springs since it is fairly close and is under enrolled, but its not on the list. I've lost all confidence that the school board would do something that makes sense.

Why do Clifton kids have to bus out of their community because Willow Springs is under enrolled? Why not bus those kids and close their school? Why punish the Clifton community because the school board has built an elementary school that is too large for the Willow Springs community?

The school board does what they want because they have no incentive to do anything else. They get more money every year, regardless of what they do. They also get re-elected, regardless of what they do. So they just go along with whatever the administrative staff wants done.

Why would you say the reason was unknown? Whether you agree or not, they did have reasons to close the school.

FCPS - News Releases
http://commweb.fcps.edu/newsreleases/newsrelease.cfm?newsid=1492

Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) facilities staff members recommended that Clifton Elementary be closed, rather than renovated, due to a number of reasons, including:

The unique topographical challenges of the Clifton Elementary School site will result in higher than normal renovation costs.

Enrollment is projected to decline from the current 369 students to a projected 298 students in 2015.

Due to the higher than normal construction costs, and the low student enrollment, the cost per student to renovate the school will be much greater than other recent renovations, estimated at a cost per student of $35,287 (versus a current renovation at a similar sized school of a cost per student of approximately $24,740).

Closing Clifton Elementary means that funds identified in the Capital Improvement Program for its renovation can be reassigned by the School Board to other capital projects such as renovations and capacity enhancements (new schools, building additions, and modulars).

Willow Springs is a GT center.

I hope a private school buys the property.

Not sure I can reconcile these two observations, unless you meant she can get re-elected to the School Board, but should put aside her aspirations for higher office.

I can see there were arguments for closing the school, but I don't personally think it was right to announce that the school would be closed, but not be specific as to when the school would be shut down or where the students would be reassigned. No one likes that degree of uncertainty, and it can't be good for the area. If FCPS needs to conduct a larger boundary study in that area, the decision could have been announced when the new boundaries were established. Sure, it will make it easier to conduct the study in some respects if Clifton ES is already out of the picture, but to me the convenience to FCPS Staff is more than outweighed by the prolonged anxiety the decision will create.

Facilities Work Session
July 13, 2009
Transportation
http://www.fcps.edu/news/documents/F...ndSWFC_000.pdf[/URL


The present location of Clifton Elementary School presents only limited concerns from a transportation perspective, since there is limited space for loading/unloading of buses and no provision for overnight bus parking. In addition, the steep hill used to enter the school can present issues in inclement weather. These concerns are limited provided that enrollment remains relatively flat.

Should the population increase and additional buses be needed to support the school, transportation concerns will increase due to the limited space available onsite. Further, if the attendance area is enlarged to support a larger school facility at the present site, then the need for students to traverse the narrow roads near the school would create new issues for families not familiar with the Clifton area. While families living in Clifton expect to traverse those roads,

families being bused from other communities may not be familiar with the roads.
[NOTE: Fairfax County parents and taxpayers - you are TOO STUPID to learn how to drive on new roads per your Big Brother, the Fairfax County School Board
At this time, no students walk to Clifton Elementary School due to safety concerns. There is a lack of safe paths or sidewalks to the school.
[NOTE: There isn't a lack of safe paths or sidewalks - there aren't ANY AT ALL - SO? Kids have been bused to this and other schools for decades. It's a problem why? And, yes, School Board, you are welcome, since the 'no sidewalks' is a part of residential conservation zoning, protecting the entire County's drinking water in the Occoquan Reservoir Watershed]

Renovation and the Educational Specifications
When FTS begins the planning of a renovation, there are a few key factors which dictate the amount of space to be added in order to fulfill the requirements of the educational specifications.

The primary consideration is determining the number of core classrooms needed to accommodate current or future enrollments. In the case of Clifton, the five year projection is nearly 400 students, which would necessitate two additional classrooms.

[NOTE: JUST TO BE CLEAR - read the above statement again. July 2009 FCPS document]

http://www.fcps.edu/news/documents/Finalstaffreport.pdf
FINAL STAFF REPORT
May 3, 2010
The latest projections by the Facilities Planning Services Office reflect the historic trend and show a continuing, slow decrease in enrollment to a projected total of 298 at Clifton Elementary School by September 2015 (school year 2015-16).
[NOTE: A scant NINE MONTHS later, an Amber alert - Clifton has LOST OVER 100 STUDENTS!!! A 25% decline in projected enrollment! A statistical impossibility...unless you are a corrupt group bent on getting your way - then you can make the numbers anything you want and ignore all best management practices, all alternatives, even offers of federal aid - 'it costs too much to take federal aid' - swear, they said that!!!]

WE NEED AN INVESTIGATION OF THE FAIRFAX COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD - NOW - BEFORE THEY DO MORE HARM TO OUR COUNTY!
Attachments:

Once again, you need to get your facts straight.


Roc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herewegoagain,
>
> You make it sound like FCSB is closing and tearing
> down Mount Vernon. Get a grip. CE doesn’t even
> come close to fitting in with the architecture and
> ambiance of Clifton. It is a butt-ugly,
> Soviet-style, minimalist red brick blockhouse.

-------Tell me where I ever stated that the school is architecturally significant to the Town of Clifton. You're right, it is a minimalist red brick blockhouse. One that serves this community and the children very well. Maybe all schools should go back to brick blockhouses instead of the over-designed, ridiculously expensive buildings they are building now. Maybe FCPS should focus more on what is going on INSIDE the buildings rather than focusing on how pretty they can make them.


> As to the size of CE and the location of a
> replacement school, you are right. No one is
> saying that CE is too small. In fact it is too
> large for the school population that it supports,
> a population that is getting smaller and smaller.
> As to the replacement school, the decision to
> build one versus redistributing the students to
> other schools has not even been made yet, as far
> as I know. Presumably, if the FCSB decides to
> build it I would imagine that they would site it
> where it serves the largest clusters of students
> currently traveling the farthest to school.

Provide proof of a declining enrollment. You can't! You can't because the enrollment did not decline this year, it increased. CES is at 98% enrollment this year. How is it that the school is too large???
Yes, the decision to not build and move the kids to 3 different schools has been made. Where have you been? There will be no new school. CES will close next month and our kids will attend their "new" schools in September. Our kids are going from 20-25 minutes bus rides to God only knows how long. Fairview, one of the receiving schools has already announced that their schedule will change drastically next year in order to bus kids from Clifton. Instead of imagining that "if the FCSB decides to build it I would imagine that they would site it where it serves the largest clusters of students currently traveling the farthest to school", try taking a look at a map. The FCSB just created large clusters of students with the farthest distance to their school when they decided to close CES.



> You and I are going to have to just agree to
> disagree. Just because the FCPS has not
> demonstrated fiscal responsibility in the past, an
> assertion that I do not concede, does not mean
> that there is no reason to do so now. As the
> famous saying goes, “if not here, where? If not
> now, when?”


Sorry, but I will never agree to disagree when you don't know what the hell you're talking about. This decision was anything but fiscally responsible.

BTW, the "new" school that 1/3 of CES kids are being sent to, Fairview ES, is even older than CES. So enough about CES being just too old and run down. It's not and never was.

herewegoagain,

I didn't need to, see "Tax Smart, Not More"'s post above. It has all the numbers and figures from the Facilities Work Session. As you can plainly see the there is an inconsistency with the numbers from what was found in the study and what was put in the report. Perhaps you should learn to research before you criticize. A poor foundation and all.

You add nothing to the truth of the matter in the closing of CES.

Roc appears to be nothing more than a shill for the school board: he/she parrots "facts" that have been demonstrated to be false (enrollment is declining, water supply is bad, renovating CES is more expensive, etc. etc. etc.).

Roc should go away! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You add nothing to the truth of the matter in the
> closing of CES.

It doesn't matter to me. I've already made plans to move my family out of the county. There are just too many niggers, wetbacks, zipper heads, and fucked up white people to deal with.

All,

I apologize, but that last statement was not by me, but by some hooligan on this forum. Closing CE and building a new school in a location that better serves the overall school enrollment IS providing “the same services that the rest of us pay for.” If the people of Clifton want an uneconomical neighborhood school that will cost the FCSB more money than the new school, through lower enrollment utilization and a shorter facility lifespan, then they should pay for it through a Special Tax District.

Similarly, if they were to send their kids to private school then they would pay both the tuition and their property taxes. Property taxes that support schools are paid by everyone, regardless of whether or not you send children to the public schools.

Life is not fair and you can’t have everything you want paid for by the taxpayers just because you want it.

Quite frankly, I am surprised by the sentiments I am reading here on a Republican blog. Reducing wasteful government spending and fiscal responsibility is a conservative value as long as it doesn’t hit me where I live?

Clifton Elementary School will be closing on June 30, 2011. Residents of the Clifton area may find information about new elementary school placements using the boundary maps at this link: Boundary Maps. http://www.fcps.edu/CliftonES/closinginfo.html#boundary

Please see the announcement about our closing celebration at this link: Clifton ES Celebration. For further information, please contact the school office at 703-988-8000.
http://www.fcps.edu/CliftonES/

Upcoming Events:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
June 8 Spring Concert
June 9 Kings Dominion Trip - Grades 3 - 6
June 14 National Aquarium Trip - Grades K - 2
June 17 Celebration of Clifton’s Legacy to the Community & Artists and Authors Night, 5-7 p.m.
June 20 Grade 6 Promotion Ceremony, 7 p.m.
June 21 Last Day of School, early dismissal at 11:35 a.m.

So....Who cares? The school's closing, there's nasty water coming from the wells. Sooo what's the big deal? I mean seriously people, get a life.

Roc,

You didn't need to what??? Read the post you reference? Because you clearly didn't read it! If you had, you would see that it PROVES my point that the enrollment DID NOT DECLINE! In fact, according to the post you suggest I read (which, BTW was one of the very documents Clifton parents used to prove the FCSB used inconsistent figures to suit their purposes), it shows that CES was supposed to be OVER capacity by 22 students. That's what they mean by "deficit". There is a deficit of available seats.

Before you criticize someone for their poor research, take a class in reading comprehension.

Tell me, since you're so wise and all knowing, how did FCSB predict in 2009 that CES would be overcrowded by 22 students and then turn it around 6 months later and say that CES would be under enrolled by almost 100 kids??? Maybe those 2 missing zip codes had something to do with it?? Or, (my favorite excuse for the suddenly missing children) maybe the Clifton Bunnyman got them?

Roc, go away. You obviously know nothing about this topic and have demonstrated that with every single one of your posts.

Keep on believing what you're told by our so-called representatives and I'm sure you'll continue to live in blissful ignorance.



Roc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herewegoagain,
>
> I didn't need to, see "Tax Smart, Not More"'s
> post above. It has all the numbers and figures
> from the Facilities Work Session. As you can
> plainly see the there is an inconsistency with the
> numbers from what was found in the study and what
> was put in the report. Perhaps you should learn to
> research before you criticize. A poor foundation
> and all.

herewegoagain,

Get a grip. CE doesn’t even come close to fitting in with the architecture and ambiance of Clifton. It is a butt-ugly, Soviet-style, minimalist red brick blockhouse.

As to the size of CE and the location of a replacement school, you are right. No one is saying that CE is too small. In fact it is too large for the school population that it supports, a population that is getting smaller and smaller. As to the replacement school, the decision to build one versus redistributing the students to other schools has not even been made yet, as far as I know. Presumably, if the FCSB decides to build it I would imagine that they would site it where it serves the largest clusters of students currently traveling the farthest to school.

You and I are going to have to just agree to disagree. Just because the FCPS has not demonstrated fiscal responsibility in the past, an assertion that I do not concede, does not mean that there is no reason to do so now. As the famous saying goes, “if not here, where? If not now, when?”

Not smart!

Who printed the school schedule? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not smart!

Blame the school its on their webpage.

OK!

To print it here is wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK!

Maybe its a way to get more publicity and some sort of public support out there on the final day(s)?

He is from Poland.

We would like to close CES in peace.

Roc is clueless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is from Poland.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Build new versus renovate can be a complex and difficult decision process when there is a significant cost differential. Build new provides a facility with more modern and efficient electrical, HVAC, plumbing, and telecommunications backbone, something that cannot be equaled with renovation. Plus, build new provides a much longer useful life expectancy than renovation. Build new typically produces a facility with a 25 year expectancy before renovation. Renovation provides 10 years or less.

When the costs are roughly equal, it quickly becomes a no-brainer. Of course, that assumes that you are a facilities management professional and not a politician. The School Board got it right, esp. if you take into account the declining enrollment in Clifton.

Welcome to the 21st Century, Clifton, where the neighborhood school is no longer affordable.

OK Roc, you've now repeated two of your previous posts almost word-for-word. It doesn't become true the more you say it.

Ut videam,

Yet you still fail to grasp the concept. All the more reason to close public schools that produce such inferior minds.

Roc,

What concept? The only thing you've demonstrated so far is that you're a puppet.

You can't even read a post and comprehend its contents correctly.

Please do us all a favor and crawl back under the "Roc" from which you came.

Otherwise, come up with some factual information to support your claims instead of parroting the nonsense purported by the FCSB.

herewegoagain,

Its quite evident that you lack the basic skills needed to grasp the simplist of concepts. Its simple math and a no brainer. Only someone of your insufficient capacity would defend the closing of a school where the water is tainted and the repair costs are nearly astronomical. Furthermore, your defense of your position (although passionate) is misplaced.

We care about our kids, values and our community.

We will always be a great small town even if you take away our school.

Roc,

Your repetition of "facts" that have been proven false demonstrates the inferiority of your mind.

• "water is tainted" - PROVEN FALSE
• "declining enrollment" - PROVEN FALSE
• "repair costs are nearly astronomical" - PROVEN FALSE

Care to keep going?

Incidentally, I have no dog in this fight. I don't live in Clifton, and don't have any kids yet. But the longer I live here, the more I become convinced that the Fairfax County government is out of control. The CES controversy is just another example.

Roc,

With all due respect, you still don't know what you're talking about and quite frankly I bored with you. You're one of those people that will argue just for the sake of argument without adding anything of value to the debate.

You can continue to believe closing this school was the right thing to do and continue to parrot what the FCSB tells you. It's clear that you're quite content to live your life in blissful ignorance. Good for you. Wish I could be blissfully ignorant again. My life would certainly be much less stressful if I just fell in line with the rest of the sheep.

I would advise that you watch your step. Blindly following the sheep that closely, you're bound to step in shit sooner or later.

Best of luck to you. Hope you find some common sense along your journey through the patties.

Well then I guess we will have to agree to disagree for now.

This is a small victory for our county children. I wonder if we can talgate in the parking lot as we celebrate the end of this elitist school.
Now we can work on getting the poor black kids out of TC williams and into the mainstream educational system. TCW needs to be taken over by FCPS and intergrated.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/11/AR2010031102389.html

even if you hate Clifton (or the idea of what Clifton is in yr mind), realize that kids that DONT live there are gonna be affected by it

Hey, dell ave. Although I think you're an idiot and suspect that you don't really live on Dell Ave. or even in Clifton for that matter, thanks for proving my point that School Boards need to focus on what is going on INSIDE the building instead of how pretty the building is on the outside. However, why on earth would you want FCPS to take over an Alexandria City Public School? Like FCPS doesn't have enough problems to deal with?

Look at that school! State of the art and still one of the worst in the nation. That's just sad.

herewegoagain,

Why is it that you have the completely wrong opinions on everything. If the sky is blue, then surely you will argue that its red. Its people like you that have contributed to the degradation of the county and its school system. It's no wonder that public servants are under siege and under pressure to come up with solutions for such low quality citizenry.

Roc,

Nice try, but I've wasted enough of my time on hopeless causes; such as you.

Move along now. You don't want the rest of the herd to leave you behind.

herewegoagain,

You are just a small fish in an even smaller pond. You have no voice, only a whisper in a windy field.

Funny_Guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So....Who cares? The school's closing, there's
> nasty water coming from the wells. Sooo what's the
> big deal? I mean seriously people, get a life.


Yup, these people need to get a life. They are also spewing hate at the school board members.

Here is some perspective Clifton loser parents.

Your career is more important than your grad/professional school which is more important than your college which is more important than your high school which is more important than middle school et cetera.

@Zynx - yeah, how DARE they be concerned about where their kids go to school

such LOSER parents - They should focus more on their career than their kids, right?

And the well water at the school is fine - dont you fucking think the parents of the kids who go to that school would be raising HOLY HELL if the water was seriously bad?

talk about needing to get a life......................sheesh.

Yes they kick and scream because an old decrepit school is being closed. The school is in such bad shape that the costs to repair it is cost prohibitive at best. Both the county and the state investigated and found significant health problems from the water issues alone and yet everyone who supports the move to a new school is made the Devil Incarnate.

"Instead of spending $11 million to renovate Clifton, Bradsher and her fellow School Board members want to spend $2.7 million more for "additions and alterations" to schools that are already at capacity so they can shoehorn in 366 Clifton children over their parents' objections. The price tag for the 206 extra seats this plan will create comes out to $66,450 each -- compared with the $29,756 per seat it would cost to renovate CES."

You were saying about fiscal responsibility, Roc? "If not now, when? If not here, where?" One thing is clear: not now, not here.

The costs to improve Clifton are in fact much, much higher. The level of neglect for that school and property is far more worse than has been reported. Most of the work being underneath the structure and its pipes, etc. So you can imagine the cost for the repairs of say, the water systems, etc. Add to those the collaterial costs, including school closure time, repair/replacement of the outdated A/C and heating units/systems, plus the contracts for those companies that will be maintaining those systems exceed well over those conservative estimates.

"exceed well over those conservative estimates"? Where the fuck did you learn to write, Roc? FCPS?

Not quite so easy when you can't just cut and paste, is it?

all I know is that there are trailers at Fairview now for kids next year - nice that to punish the ppl of Clifton, yr gonna make others suffer too. Staff at Oakview are worried they are gonna be stuff to the gills as well.

@ Roc - have you even ever BEEN to the school? What there is in such bad shape that couldnt have just been fixed instead of shipping kids out miles away from where they go to school now? Cause Oakview and Fairview are like 5 to 8 miles away from Clifton Elem.

which is exactly where we want kids and more school buses during morning rush hour.................on 123

and crossing the Parkway @ Popes Head :(

Gordo, buddy, I think it's best to ignore Roc. S/h/it's turning out to be nothing more than a mindless troll.

i guess.................it's just really scary to think ppl are all so anti-Clifton that they are seriously going after the kids like this. Just incredible.

Well enjoy your sediment filled water then. I'm just glad my family and I don't live there; not so sure that my colon can take it.

Please go away.

Nobody finds you funny.

Looks like the community outreach dept for FCPS has kicked off their campaign in allignment with SB incumbents. The Washington Post and now cornering this blog with people named ROC, etc...

You don't need to worry about your water just double wide being swept away to the land of Oz by a twister.

PS We don't call it Clifton Springs for nothing.

Roc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian,
>
> Community attachment is all well and good.
> However, what the good people of Clifton are
> asking the rest of us Fairfax County taxpayers to
> do is to pay a premium to renovate a school with
> dwindling enrollment instead of building a new
> school more centrally located for the maximum
> number of county residents. That is just plain
> selfish.
>
> I will state this as delicately as I can. The
> parents of Clifton would rather send their
> children to a school with contaminated water and,
> mostly likely, asbestos issues than send them to a
> brand new school outside of Clifton. Is it
> possible that the motivation is no so much
> attachment to Clifton Elementary but a desire to
> keep their kids inside their exclusive and insular
> community where they don’t have to associate
> with the children of “those other kinds of
> people?”
>
> Liz did not abandon her constituents if she was
> voting for the overall best interests of Fairfax
> County taxpayers, esp. those who live in her
> district but not in Clifton. Those are the ones
> who will benefit most from her vote with a new
> elementary school.

This is such BS. Liz is a proven idiot whom neither the Democrats nor Republicans plan to endorse, so you should give it a rest.

And, of course, the parents in Clifton aren't getting a new elementary school, but instead will have their kids redistributed to three existing schools. There's a difference between a trailer and a new school.

@ Skeptical

awwww, c'mon! What wrong with using the same sorta facility FCPS uses for STORAGE for childhood learning? (sarcasm included)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/24/AR2010032401142.html

I wasn't trying to be funny. But now I must go, a wonderful steak dinner with an expensive Perrier-Jouet Champagne & a lovely companion waiting for me. As for Clifton, I'm sorry we didn't agree but I do wish you the best you and your families.

Hope you choke on it, Roc. It'll serve you right for pairing steak with champagne. Dumbass.

Ut videam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hope you choke on it, Roc. It'll serve you right
> for pairing steak with champagne. Dumbass.

Champagne is good with steak. It's better with shrimp though.

Champagne and Steak actually don't go too well together, but for $6k plus a bottle it better go good with anything.
Attachments:

geez, everybody knows red wine with steak - champagne is for seafood, chicken, or with dessert.....................or if yr just doing a cheese & cracker light menu dealie.

I know... why don't we send the Clifton kids to "staff" at Gateway? They can just catch rides with the county staff (since transportation is provided and paid for by the taxpayer either way)? The kids can even go to the bathroom indoors, have garage parking, and a plethora of overpaid staff who think they know what is best for them :)

Since he wears dentures it makes it even better.

Well tonight I will be dining on Lobster as part of a 5-course meal with an excellent Goisot Saint-Bris Fié Gris “Corps de Garde Gourmand". So again I extend my wishes that you enjoy your meal tonight. What will that be? A Happy Meal from the local McDonald's or has your mother given you permission to try something fancier? Say, Wendy's?

somehow, I'm pretty sure Roc's real life "french" meal is actually closer to this...............LoLz



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2011 10:51PM by Gordon Blvd.
Attachments:

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> somehow, I'm pretty sure Roc's real life "french"
> meal is actually closer to this...............LoLz


Lean Cuisine is..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where have you been? Have you read any of the FOIA emails from Liz and her buddies? She is an elected official who lied repeatedly to her constituants, telling the people of Clifton how to save thier school out of one side of her mouth, while working behind the scenes to get support to close the school.

If she had been truthful from the start, and felt any remorse about closing the school, we would have more respect for her. But, evey quote out of her mouth is about how much she has suffered.

@Charlton - then I'm DEFINATELY not interesting in knowing where they got the "Meatballs"

LoLz

@catch up - oh, we all know this by now..........she so reminds me of John Candy's character in Evan Almighty, that crooked senator, y'know?

With all that has been said and done, I thought this article might help to put things in perspective......


History of Clifton Elementary, Past & Present
http://www.savecliftonelementary.org/Past---Present.html


Clifton, Virginia, like most of Fairfax County is rich in history. However, unlike most of Fairfax County, Clifton has managed to maintain and preserve that historical feeling to this day. The Town of Clifton remains a small, rural community compared to the more developed areas of Fairfax County. As a more rural area, many of Clifton's residents have come to depend on Clifton Elementary as the center of the wider Clifton Area Community. It is the place where families meet, a gathering spot for local organizations, and is vital to the livelihood of the Town's small businesses. There has been a school located in Clifton, uniting this more rural community since 1869.

The following excerpt was taken from the book "Clifton" of the "Images of America" series published by Arcadia Publishing in 2009. "Clifton" was written by local resident, Lynne Garvey Hodge, owner of the Canary Cottage Bed and Breakfast, on Main Street in Clifton.

Today, Clifton Elementary still serves nearly 400 students from the Clifton Area Community. The students at Clifton Elementary continue to thrive, as evidenced by the 2009 Governor's Award for Educational Excellence presented to the school during the 2008-2009 school year. Clifton students not only excel in their education, but also contribute to the surrounding communities through various outreach programs supported by the school.

Each year the school's students regularly participate in a number of events to help raise money and awareness of those in need throughout the greater DC Metropolitan area. Such programs include the Fannie Mae Walk for Homeless, the American Heart Association's Jump Rope for Heart and the Student Council Food Drive.

During the 2007-2008 school year, Clifton Elementary participated in a "Buddy School Program", with Crestwood Elementary in Springfield, VA. Clifton Elementary ran a book drive in the fall, delivering over 1200 gently used books to students at Crestwood Elementary. In the spring, Clifton Elementary families donated boxes of school supplies and clothing that were desperately needed by students at Crestwood Elementary.

During the 2008-2009 school year, Clifton Elementary entered into a Community Partnership with Shelter House Inc., to help support the Kate Hanley Shelter, in Fairfax, VA. Each of the fifteen classrooms at Clifton Elementary assembled a complete “Kitchen in a Box” and donated these supplies to the Kate Hanley Shelter where they were given to families moving into permanent housing. In addition to the "Kitchen in a Box" program, the Student Council of Clifton Elementary ran a Snack Drive to benefit the children and families living at the Kate Hanley shelter.

Also during the 2008-2009 school year, the students at Clifton participated in the Pennies for Patients program run by a local chapter of the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. For three weeks in April 2009, students collected loose change and brought it to school to donate to the cause. The total amount raised : $3316.06

In addition to the programs described above, each month one class from Clifton Elementary makes and donates sandwiches to a local homeless shelter. The students enjoy this opportunity to "compete" with each other throughout the year to see which class can make the most sandwiches. On average, Clifton Elementary donates 5500 sandwiches each school year to the The LAMB Center in Fairfax, VA.

Outside of school hours, Clifton Elementary students and families continue to support their community. Many youth groups which foster the development and growth of children into community leaders draw their membership from the Clifton Elementary School attendance area. The Girl Scouts and Cub Scouts programs based at Clifton Elementary both have the highest participation rates of any school in their respective Metropolitan Washington Council areas. These programs include several members from the wider community who attend private schools, participate in homeschool programs, or who attend other public schools in the area which do not provide such service programs for their communities. In 2009, nearly 30% of the boys and over 60% of the girls who are students at Clifton Elementary participated in scouting programs.

Clifton Elementary is not only a vital part of the Clifton Community because it educates our children. The school's Mission Statement explains: "Clifton Elementary empowers the school community to collaborate as scholars, mentors, and responsible citizens who foster creative learning, innovative thinking, and positive contributions to society." Clifton students, faculty, and parents strive to live up to this Mission Statement every day.


History of Clifton Elementary, Past & Present

"The first Clifton school was in the home of Margaret and Susan Reviere Hetzel in 1869. After 1871, a one-room schoolhouse was built on the Castle Branch Road (Newman Road); however, the trek across the flood plain and railroad tracks made it difficult for children to attend. The Crouch family then provided classes in nearby Union Mill, operating from 1874 to 1930, at which point children attended Ivakota Farm's school. By 1890, the one-room schoolhouse became too small for all the Clifton students, and a two-story elementary and high school was built on Main Street across from where a new high school had been built in 1895. The combined school became home to two of Clifton's future mayor's, W. Swen Elgin and Jim Chelsey. The high school boasted an impressive, beautiful bell tower, spacious rooms, blackboards, and raised teacher platforms. In 1912, it was given to the Odd Fellows organization for their meetings. In spite of Clifton's fine academic offerings, some area parents were not diligent in encouraging their boys to attend class, and the February 18, 1910, Fairfax Herald noted lack of attendance in school was causing missed opportunities: 'The mill can not grind with the water that is past.' An appropriate statement, as Clifton had several thriving lumber and gristmills on Popes Head Creek. A new school was built high atop a hill above Clifton in 1912, with a 100-person capacity auditorium, a library, and six classrooms. One hundred forty students attended when it opened with the last Clifton High School graduation on June 6, 1935. Clifton high school students later attended Fairfax and eventually Robinson High Schools. In 1953, the 1912 school was razed and a new, modern elementary school was built, which still serves the Clifton elementary schoolchildren and the voting poll."
This banner hangs over the front door of Clifton Elementary.
Attachments:

What a bunch of whining assholes. I hopped around from school to school my who childhood because my alcoholic dad couldn't keep a job. You know what I discovered? The quality of the school doesn't matter. What matters is your willingness to show up on time, not act like a little fuckhead, make half an effort to learn the crap they want you to, and spend your real effort on something you love. I went to the worst schools-ones nobody ever claimed to "love"-and got average grades. Now I make a hundred and fifty grand and my wife makes about the same. Yeah, I know, plenty of people make more, but it's a pretty fair income.
You people want to pretend that your kids' successes will be because you picked a house based on "the best schools" or your kids' failures will be because the school board somehow betrayed you, fine. But you're lying to yourself. Your kids' successes and failures will be because of who they are and the choices they make. But one thing is sure... If you teach them to always piss and moan when they don't get their way, their failures will outweigh their successes, so you better set their little asses up with some trust funds.
Entitlement-minded shitheads.

Disgusted Dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a bunch of whining assholes. I hopped around
> from school to school my who childhood because my
> alcoholic dad couldn't keep a job. You know what I
> discovered? The quality of the school doesn't
> matter. What matters is your willingness to show
> up on time, not act like a little fuckhead, make
> half an effort to learn the crap they want you to,
> and spend your real effort on something you love.
> I went to the worst schools-ones nobody ever
> claimed to "love"-and got average grades. Now I
> make a hundred and fifty grand and my wife makes
> about the same. Yeah, I know, plenty of people
> make more, but it's a pretty fair income.
> You people want to pretend that your kids'
> successes will be because you picked a house based
> on "the best schools" or your kids' failures will
> be because the school board somehow betrayed you,
> fine. But you're lying to yourself. Your kids'
> successes and failures will be because of who they
> are and the choices they make. But one thing is
> sure... If you teach them to always piss and moan
> when they don't get their way, their failures will
> outweigh their successes, so you better set their
> little asses up with some trust funds.
> Entitlement-minded shitheads.

Excuse me but the issue was with the whole controversy in closing the school. The facts from the study contradict what the board said.

and open a New Clifton Elementary School.

Why are you mad at CES? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are a nice community. Our kids have done
> nothing wrong.
>
> We just wanted our local school kept open.
>
> We are ready to move on but I think others outside
> of Clifton are not.

When your community stops wasting the county tax dollars with frivolous litigation and bull crap FOIA requests our anger will subside.

The attitudes, smears, and lies that have spewed from Clifton residents over this is a shame.

And we've been through all this already. The school isn't up to code, the repairs are prohibitive, access on the hill is limited and the water is bad. Noticed no one turned down that bottled water until the school closing came up.

Enough already.

I am always amazed by people who think that because they didn't or don't have an ideal school situation, no one else should. It frankly disgusts me. "My education was crappy so your expectations should be lower." For real? Is it not natural for parents to want and fight for what's best for their kids and the children of their community? Just because my kids - who mean more to me than anything in this world - have been displaced from CES to a lesser school 3 times its size and 4 times as far from our home, does not mean that I would not support another community in preventing the same situation. All FCPS seems to be thinking about is the cheapest and EASIEST solution to getting our kids educated. But they should be looking at the BEST way to educate our kids. There are a lot of factors causing hardship for our schools. They including the huge pensions that we pay out to retired teachers and the existing teachers' contract, a possible lack of funding (who actually knows how much $ FCPS has and has access to? It's impossible to figure out), to politics getting in the way of smart decision making, to people choosing easy solutions over more complex but better solutions. There is nothing wrong with asking for more - more effort and more money, better leadership for our schools. Parents are supposed to fight for what's best for their kids. That's not whining. It's instinctual and vital.

Mother of 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> solution to getting our kids educated. But they
> should be looking at the BEST way to educate our
> kids. There are a lot of factors causing hardship

You volunteering to pay more taxes? FCPS teachers have gone three years without pay raises. With inflation, that means they are losing money. You want "BEST"? Pony the fuck up.

She started this mess. Ask her for some money.

I pony up all the time. My taxes are huge and I would pay more taxes if that's what it takes to keep our schools top notch. But I won't throw bad money after good. Teachers haven't received raises in the last 3 years, but neither have I, neither has my husband, nor have most of the people we know. In fact, I have well-educated friends without jobs. We're in a recession, and people don't get raises in a recession, they keep their jobs and are thankful. Are you saying your need for a raise trumps the overcrowding issues?

You are so right.

The trolls on here will never like Clifton since they live in double wides.

Mother of 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> their jobs and are thankful. Are you saying your
> need for a raise trumps the overcrowding issues?

I didn't say I haven't gotten a raise, I said FCPS teachers haven't. I've been getting bumped at least 4% a year for the last decade.

And your argument is crap, because what is already starting to happen is the good teachers are bailing from FCPS and heading to other school systems, and we're going to be left with the crummy teachers who know they suck and are afraid to leave a job they know nobody else wants because the pay is lagging.

Aren't you the one who said "I am always amazed by people who think that because they didn't or don't have an ideal school situation, no one else should."?

Let's give that a minor edit...

I am always amazed by people who think that because they didn't or don't have an ideal employment situation, no one else should.

Hypocrite much?

Somebody needs to simmer down and have a glass of wine.

Or people could be honest and forthcoming and there would not be a need for litigation. This is like a drunk blaming the police for having to hire a lawyer for his DUI hearing.

not Kilton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And we've been through all this already. The
> school isn't up to code, the repairs are
> prohibitive, access on the hill is limited and the
> water is bad. Noticed no one turned down that
> bottled water until the school closing came up.

--------------------------------------------------------

so ok, please riddle me this, Batman...........if the schools so dangerous as "they" say it is, and the water as bad as "they" say it is (notice nobody has proven shit about any of this?) then why do you believe that Clfitonites are so willing to put their children IN HARMS WAY like that?

Do you really, seriously believe that ppl who live in Clifton want to harm their children, put them in danger? Give them tainted water?

"Entitlement-minded shitheads" says Disgusted Dan. So, another moron crawls out from under the "Roc." Listen stupid, arguing with nitwits without being paid for my trouble goes against my principles, but I'll say this so that even a schmuck like you can understand ... why the hell should I pay sky-high taxes to provide a community school for everyone else's kids, including yours, while my own kids are deprived of their community school? How is it an "entitlement" to demand the same treatment as every other community in the county? Asshole.

Mother of 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am always amazed by people who think that
> because they didn't or don't have an ideal school
> situation, no one else should. It frankly
> disgusts me. "My education was crappy so your
> expectations should be lower." For real? Is it
> not natural for parents to want and fight for
> what's best for their kids and the children of
> their community? Just because my kids - who mean
> more to me than anything in this world - have been
> displaced from CES to a lesser school 3 times its
> size and 4 times as far from our home, does not
> mean that I would not support another community in
> preventing the same situation. All FCPS seems to
> be thinking about is the cheapest and EASIEST
> solution to getting our kids educated. But they
> should be looking at the BEST way to educate our
> kids. There are a lot of factors causing hardship
> for our schools. They including the huge pensions
> that we pay out to retired teachers and the
> existing teachers' contract, a possible lack of
> funding (who actually knows how much $ FCPS has
> and has access to? It's impossible to figure
> out), to politics getting in the way of smart
> decision making, to people choosing easy solutions
> over more complex but better solutions. There is
> nothing wrong with asking for more - more effort
> and more money, better leadership for our schools.
> Parents are supposed to fight for what's best
> for their kids. That's not whining. It's
> instinctual and vital.


Send your kids to a private school if you're not happy with FCPS.

FOIA Proponent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or people could be honest and forthcoming and
> there would not be a need for litigation. This is
> like a drunk blaming the police for having to hire
> a lawyer for his DUI hearing.


Your FOIA requests have produced nothing.

When is the closing party, we'll come to watch the crying.

Mother of 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am always amazed by people who think that
> because they didn't or don't have an ideal school
> situation, no one else should. It frankly
> disgusts me. "My education was crappy so your
> expectations should be lower." For real? Is it
> not natural for parents to want and fight for
> what's best for their kids and the children of
> their community? Just because my kids - who mean
> more to me than anything in this world - have been
> displaced from CES to a lesser school 3 times its
> size and 4 times as far from our home, does not
> mean that I would not support another community in
> preventing the same situation. All FCPS seems to
> be thinking about is the cheapest and EASIEST
> solution to getting our kids educated. But they
> should be looking at the BEST way to educate our
> kids. There are a lot of factors causing hardship
> for our schools. They including the huge pensions
> that we pay out to retired teachers and the
> existing teachers' contract, a possible lack of
> funding (who actually knows how much $ FCPS has
> and has access to? It's impossible to figure
> out), to politics getting in the way of smart
> decision making, to people choosing easy solutions
> over more complex but better solutions. There is
> nothing wrong with asking for more - more effort
> and more money, better leadership for our schools.
> Parents are supposed to fight for what's best
> for their kids. That's not whining. It's
> instinctual and vital.


"lesser school?"

Not a very nice thing to say about Fairview, Oak View or Union Mill.

This was a statement made last year from Gov. Bob McDonnell:

"There is a need for us to take lots of different approaches," said Nitz.
Gov. Bob McDonnell (R), in particular, has been very supportive of the charter school movement and is interested in making Virginia more friendly to charters, privately-run schools that are allocated public funds and don’t charge tuition.
According to Nitz, McDonnell would be interested in seeing a charter open in Fairfax County as well as other parts of the commonwealth.

I would say schools that are packed and have trailers are "lesser" schools.

I am positive the parents of the other three schools wished Clifton had stayed open too.

My son is in SYA sports with the other kids from the "lesser schools" and you can't tell the kids apart.

It is not the kids or the schools themselves but that in the end it is not CES.

Now pick me apart.

Clifton History Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With all that has been said and done, I thought
> this article might help to put things in
> perspective......
>
>
> History of Clifton Elementary, Past & Present
> http://www.savecliftonelementary.org/Past---Presen
> t.html
>
>
> Clifton, Virginia, like most of Fairfax County is
> rich in history. However, unlike most of Fairfax
> County, Clifton has managed to maintain and
> preserve that historical feeling to this day. The
> Town of Clifton remains a small, rural community
> compared to the more developed areas of Fairfax
> County. As a more rural area, many of Clifton's
> residents have come to depend on Clifton
> Elementary as the center of the wider Clifton Area
> Community. It is the place where families meet, a
> gathering spot for local organizations, and is
> vital to the livelihood of the Town's small
> businesses. There has been a school located in
> Clifton, uniting this more rural community since
> 1869.
>
> The following excerpt was taken from the book
> "Clifton" of the "Images of America" series
> published by Arcadia Publishing in 2009.
> "Clifton" was written by local resident, Lynne
> Garvey Hodge, owner of the Canary Cottage Bed and
> Breakfast, on Main Street in Clifton.
>
> Today, Clifton Elementary still serves nearly 400
> students from the Clifton Area Community. The
> students at Clifton Elementary continue to thrive,
> as evidenced by the 2009 Governor's Award for
> Educational Excellence presented to the school
> during the 2008-2009 school year. Clifton
> students not only excel in their education, but
> also contribute to the surrounding communities
> through various outreach programs supported by the
> school.
>
> Each year the school's students regularly
> participate in a number of events to help raise
> money and awareness of those in need throughout
> the greater DC Metropolitan area. Such programs
> include the Fannie Mae Walk for Homeless, the
> American Heart Association's Jump Rope for Heart
> and the Student Council Food Drive.
>
> During the 2007-2008 school year, Clifton
> Elementary participated in a "Buddy School
> Program", with Crestwood Elementary in
> Springfield, VA. Clifton Elementary ran a book
> drive in the fall, delivering over 1200 gently
> used books to students at Crestwood Elementary.
> In the spring, Clifton Elementary families donated
> boxes of school supplies and clothing that were
> desperately needed by students at Crestwood
> Elementary.
>
> During the 2008-2009 school year, Clifton
> Elementary entered into a Community Partnership
> with Shelter House Inc., to help support the Kate
> Hanley Shelter, in Fairfax, VA. Each of the
> fifteen classrooms at Clifton Elementary assembled
> a complete “Kitchen in a Box” and donated
> these supplies to the Kate Hanley Shelter where
> they were given to families moving into permanent
> housing. In addition to the "Kitchen in a Box"
> program, the Student Council of Clifton
> Elementary ran a Snack Drive to benefit the
> children and families living at the Kate Hanley
> shelter.
>
> Also during the 2008-2009 school year, the
> students at Clifton participated in the Pennies
> for Patients program run by a local chapter of the
> Leukemia and Lymphoma Society. For three weeks in
> April 2009, students collected loose change and
> brought it to school to donate to the cause. The
> total amount raised : $3316.06
>
> In addition to the programs described above, each
> month one class from Clifton Elementary makes and
> donates sandwiches to a local homeless shelter.
> The students enjoy this opportunity to "compete"
> with each other throughout the year to see which
> class can make the most sandwiches. On average,
> Clifton Elementary donates 5500 sandwiches each
> school year to the The LAMB Center in Fairfax, VA.
>
>
> Outside of school hours, Clifton Elementary
> students and families continue to support their
> community. Many youth groups which foster the
> development and growth of children into community
> leaders draw their membership from the Clifton
> Elementary School attendance area. The Girl Scouts
> and Cub Scouts programs based at Clifton
> Elementary both have the highest participation
> rates of any school in their respective
> Metropolitan Washington Council areas. These
> programs include several members from the wider
> community who attend private schools, participate
> in homeschool programs, or who attend other public
> schools in the area which do not provide such
> service programs for their communities. In 2009,
> nearly 30% of the boys and over 60% of the girls
> who are students at Clifton Elementary
> participated in scouting programs.
>
> Clifton Elementary is not only a vital part of the
> Clifton Community because it educates our
> children. The school's Mission Statement
> explains: "Clifton Elementary empowers the school
> community to collaborate as scholars, mentors, and
> responsible citizens who foster creative learning,
> innovative thinking, and positive contributions to
> society." Clifton students, faculty, and
> parents strive to live up to this Mission
> Statement every day.
>
>
> History of Clifton Elementary, Past & Present
>
> "The first Clifton school was in the home of
> Margaret and Susan Reviere Hetzel in 1869. After
> 1871,

Yes its all about Clifton HISTORY!!!!!

I grew up in the town of clifton and attended CES in the 60's. Clifton was a wonderfull place to grow up. Rich folk, poor folk, black folk, white folk all working together and helping each other. The selfish hatefull bitches that now live in the area started to come around in the early 80's.
I will be at the closing party to politely communicate to the worthless selfish punk parents that they are lucky that the cycle of selfishness and hate may have a chance of being broken for their children.
Of course most of them will not care or understand and I feel great sorrow for their children.

@lesser schools - as a parent of children at one of those 3 schools, I can tell you one thing..................YOU'RE GODDAM RIGHT ABOUT THAT!!!

@ Dell Ave: didja do what I told you to do? If so, you'd have seen a difference by now. And taking yr anger of the parents out on the kids is an unacceptable way to act..............................unless, of course your last name is Bradsher LoLz

@not Kilton - I notice you havent Cowgirled up enough to answer my riddle....................

Please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We would like to close CES in peace.


We should call 691-2131 and ask for a couple of cops to be present at the closing. Sounds like some idiots want to get loud and start stuff. Emotions will be running high.

I personally can't wait for Liz Schulz to get elected to the School Board so she can screw over Liz's old neighborhood the way that Liz Bradsher screwed over everyone else she was supposed to serve.

Start off by closing Silverbrook ES, and take it from there.

O Happy Day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I personally can't wait for Liz Schulz to get
> elected to the School Board so she can screw over
> Liz's old neighborhood the way that Liz Bradsher
> screwed over everyone else she was supposed to
> serve.
>

She is about as electable as Palin. But if she does get the post I'll be sure to FOIA her emails and post them here to ridicule.

Understand the BOS is considering the use of CES as low income housing.

Perfect.

FCPS is looking to use it as a bus depot.

peace lover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We would like to close CES in peace.
>
>
> We should call 691-2131 and ask for a couple of
> cops to be present at the closing. Sounds like
> some idiots want to get loud and start stuff.
> Emotions will be running high.

That's probably a good idea.

True.

peace lover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> We should call 691-2131 and ask for a couple of
> cops to be present at the closing.


Why, will there be free donuts?

We are going to the beach and moving on with life.

bwahaha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She is about as electable as Palin. But if she
> does get the post I'll be sure to FOIA her emails
> and post them here to ridicule.
>
> Understand the BOS is considering the use of CES
> as low income housing.
>
> Perfect.

Liz Schultz is quite electable, and she has enough sense not to send out damaging e-mails under an fcps.edu e-mail account.

The day Liz Bradsher leaves office will be a day to celebrate. The day she leaves the county will be even better.

If I lived in that community, I'd burn it down on the last day in protest.

What a Laugh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I lived in that community, I'd burn it down on
> the last day in protest.


No real need for protest, the closing of CES is a victory for the children. If even one child is able to break the cycle of hate and selfishness that their parents have set them up for it will be well worth it. I beleive that many hundreds of children will be saved. Its great that we as a community are able to help the children despite their clueless parents.
Hopefully we can get along or just agree to disagree at the closing. One of our neighbors is trying to get the Highland school in Warrenton to send a bus to clifton next school year so maybe some parents will be willing to pay the 12 grand a year to continue the miseducation of their poor little ones. I wonder if anyone will take offence to Highland flyers being passed out at the closing party.

Clifton kids are going to do well no matter where they go. They have educated parents who will do whatever it takes to get them the best. Wouldn't you want to have parents like that?

The thing about Clifton parents is that now they have been dumped on by FCPS and so their feelings about FCPS are not the same as they once were. They can never really look at their tax bills in quite the same way. I think FCPS has created a few more Republican voucher seekers and/or charter school seekers. After they close a few more of these schools and keep taking away honors courses in favor of AP and their emphasis on bean counting, there will be critical mass in this "middle class and care about my kids" group. Watch for political change and flight from public schools (it will take about 10 years, but it will happen). FCPS thinks they can change people with a wave of a wand, but social change doesn't work that way (as Prohibition showed). The middle class will not only be paying more for retirement, but they will be paying for private schools and having higher taxes to support the lower class that is still in public school. It sounds like a recipe for success, doesn't it?

I'll bring the tissues

In Your Face Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Liz Schultz is quite electable, and she has enough
> sense not to send out damaging e-mails under an
> fcps.edu e-mail account.
>

Is she using a Yahoo account like Palin, or is all her dirty business conducted verbally over-the-phone?

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Wont miss the PARTY!!!!
Will get pics of the local snobs crying and stuff.
pics will be posted on this thread.

Good luck!

It's sad how the true venomous character of the Clifton residents came out during the past year. Ugly.

Too bad one of the does not bite you Liz. Stay off the underground and stay away from Clifton too.

Va. Supreme Ct.: Fairfax Co. can close Clifton school
Tuesday - 6/7/2011, 11:02am ET
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=149&sid=2412619

CLIFTON, Va. (AP) - The Virginia Supreme Court has upheld a decision by the Fairfax County School Board to close an elementary school.

The court on Friday rejected an appeal from parents of the county's decision to close Clifton Elementary School. The board voted in July to close the school, citing renovation, declining enrollment, safety issues and the poor quality of well water used in the building.

In December, a Fairfax circuit court judge also ruled in favor of the school board's decision.

Clifton Elementary School will close on June 21. Parents of students at the school are advised to check boundary maps for their new school assignments.

We need a big turnout of regular folks at the party. They have invited the community so any county or town resident is welcome. No making fun of the kids though, its not their fault they were born into the pattern of selfishness and hate. We can let the parents know discretely how foul they are.
I guess posting pics of the parents would be too hard on the kids so I wont do that afterall. We all gotta play nice or we are no better than the clifton parents.

Liz and her minions should STFU.

Clifton parents are ready to move on.

Part of that means making sure Bradsher never gets elected to the SB or any other post around here.

Posts on FFXU by Liz and her troll friends won't change that.

you're learning, DellAve :)

I seriously hope you have fun at the Closing Party

wow. The Clifton parents are foul??!! And you're "Regular people"? Really?!! Clifton parents have selfishness and hate for fighting a school board that misrepresents - on so many levels - and wastes all taxpayers' money? (including yours) And that's only scratching the surface.

Next time, they're coming for you. That's what happens to people who hate others indiscriminately, and believe the lies propaganda doles out. Unbelievable. Read this and enlighten yourself - please. Ot at least stop posting - others believe the lies too - perhaps, because they want to believe.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=351804&paper=81&cat=110




dellave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need a big turnout of regular folks at the
> party. They have invited the community so any
> county or town resident is welcome. No making fun
> of the kids though, its not their fault they were
> born into the pattern of selfishness and hate. We
> can let the parents know discretely how foul they
> are.
> I guess posting pics of the parents would be too
> hard on the kids so I wont do that afterall. We
> all gotta play nice or we are no better than the
> clifton parents.

thanks for the link , wow.
Is this statement true? I have a hard time beliveing it.

"The Clifton Elementary case has transcended the attempt by a majority of this School Board to close a well preserved, highly achieving community anchor and only school in a 40-square-mile area."

40 square miles ???????

True, unfortunately. It's a big area for just one ES.

I was sucked in a year ago, and believed what I read and heard (heresay, and misleading newspaper articles), until I read the FOIA'ed emails among the school board members, and did some reading and digging on my own. I'm ashamed to admit my earlier ignorance and willingness to believe whatever I was fed, really.

It is easy to do - one can easily feel shunned by the well-heeled crowd, so, somehow, it's easy to believe propaganda like "they just want their own public school". The entire Fairfax County taxpayer base has been played.

We'll all pay, ultimately, by paying to add trailers and renovations at nearby schools to accommodate the Clifton students (even more than the Clifton renovations would have cost), dealing with more traffic as they're bussed even farther, and dealing with whatever else the SB and FCPS wants to do behind the scenes down the road. They've been emboldened, I'm afraid.

Saw the new boundary map, line is drawn right down 645/Clifton Rd. West side of town goes to Union Mill ES, East side is bussed to Fairview ES. Guess that's what the town gets for the two frivalous lawsuits, the hate mail to the school board, and the chidish cartoons and re-posting of FCPS emails here.

See everyone at the closing party. Oh, and make sure you don't drink the water if you go. ;)

@saw the map - yeah, how dare they post public information on a public board - yeah, the town (or more specifically the children) should be punished for that - way to go with yr thinking there o_0

question for all: are buses really, seriously going to have to cross the Parkway at Popes Head now?

Yep. And drive Pope's Head all the way there. Treacherous. Clifton Rd. already handles many commuters at 45 mph (many more than the limit) already. Should be interesting with more buses in the mix.

@saw the map


uh, don't know what map you're looking at, but the kids are being sent to 3 different schools: Union Mill, Fairview and Oak View.

In Your Face Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bwahaha Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > She is about as electable as Palin. But if she
> > does get the post I'll be sure to FOIA her
> emails
> > and post them here to ridicule.
> >
> > Understand the BOS is considering the use of
> CES
> > as low income housing.
> >
> > Perfect.
>
> Liz Schultz is quite electable, and she has enough
> sense not to send out damaging e-mails under an
> fcps.edu e-mail account.
>
> The day Liz Bradsher leaves office will be a day
> to celebrate. The day she leaves the county will
> be even better.

I want someone who brings folks together. This woman sounds like someone who can and who people have supported in for a long time.
http://connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=319513&paper=81&cat=110

Would vote for her every day and ten times on Sunday over this horror of a divider:

From: Bradsher, Elizabeth (School Board Member) [mailto:ETBradsher@fcps.edu]
To: Erik & Mary Hawkins
Sent: 6/9/2010 11:29:05 PM
Subject: RE: Reenaging SOAR for July FCPS Staff/SB CIP Meetings
Attachments:
Erik,
If you have concerns about the Clifton issues and impact to schools like WSHS now is the time to write into the Board and begin a campaign. Clifton community members have written in droves about their school and don’t
seem to understand CIP needs elsewhere.
BTW your renovation will be completed in 2018 not 2019!
Elizabeth T. Bradsher
Fairfax County School Board
Springfield District
Phone: (571) 296-1875
Debora L. Cain, Executive Administrative Assistant
Phone: (571) 423-1070

Rodney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I want someone who brings folks together. This
> woman sounds like someone who can and who people
> have supported in for a long time.

I wouldn't vote for that troublemaker if she was the only candidate on the ballot.

@ Gordon - question for all: are buses really, seriously going to have to cross the Parkway at Popes Head now?

Im sure Fairview Kids will probably travel Fairfax Station Road, union Mill Kids will use Twin Lakes Road, but thats on the way to school, they may very well cross over FCP at Popse Head on their way to pick the kids up though.


dell ave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thanks for the link , wow.
> Is this statement true? I have a hard time
> beliveing it.
>
> "The Clifton Elementary case has transcended the
> attempt by a majority of this School Board to
> close a well preserved, highly achieving community
> anchor and only school in a 40-square-mile area."
>
> 40 square miles ???????

Now, at my ol friend Dell Ave...

Do you know what a square mile is?
Clifton ES to Fairvies is 5.1 mi, to Union Mill is 3.4 and Oak View is 7.7... Lets look at the map...


View Larger Map

Yes, 40 square miles looks very accurate...

40 sq miles doesn't entitle Clifton to an expensive school fraught with repair needs for a declining and small school population.

But we already covered this.

More importantly, who will bring the tissues to the party!

or is it your girlfriend, Lizzy B?

>Clifton to an expensive school fraught with repair needs for a declining and >small school population.

Really?

Then you got some 'splainin to do.

http://www.input.com/blogs/public/index.cfm/2011/5/11/Fairfax-County-Public-Schools-approves-252M-for-architecture-engineering-construction-and-IT
Attachments:

Ouch!

Which school is less than what FCPS said Clifton's renovation would cost?

Oh, snap.

None.

Build new versus renovate can be a complex and difficult decision process when there is a significant cost differential. Build new provides a facility with more modern and efficient electrical, HVAC, plumbing, and telecommunications backbone, something that cannot be equaled with renovation. Plus, build new provides a much longer useful life expectancy than renovation. Build new typically produces a facility with a 25 year expectancy before renovation. Renovation provides 10 years or less.

When the costs are roughly equal, it quickly becomes a no-brainer. Of course, that assumes that you are a facilities management professional and not a politician. The School Board got it right, esp. if you take into account the declining enrollment in Clifton.

Welcome to the 21st Century, Clifton, where the neighborhood school is no longer affordable.

My favorite part of this whole CES thing is the hag moms whining about their kids having to make new friends. Are your children all supposed to go through life (HS, college, jobs etc) together and never have to build new relationships? LOfuckingL! Give me a break.

Five acres Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 40 sq miles doesn't entitle Clifton to an
> expensive school fraught with repair needs for a
> declining and small school population.
> But we already covered this.
> More importantly, who will bring the tissues to
> the party!


If you had matriculated from Clifton Elementary, you would know:


Definition of TOO

1: besides, also 'sell the house and furniture too'
2 a: to an excessive degree : excessively 'too large a house for us' b: to such a degree as to be regrettable 'this time he has gone too far' c: very 'didn't seem too interested'
3: so “I didn't do it.” “You did too.”

Examples of TOO:
He saw something, and she saw it too.
I want to go too!
The soup is too hot.
The offer was too good to refuse.

You are too stupid to have read this far.

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Gordon - question for all: are buses really,
> seriously going to have to cross the Parkway at
> Popes Head now?
>
> Im sure Fairview Kids will probably travel Fairfax
> Station Road, union Mill Kids will use Twin Lakes
> Road, but thats on the way to school, they may
> very well cross over FCP at Popse Head on their
> way to pick the kids up though.
>
>
> dell ave Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > thanks for the link , wow.
> > Is this statement true? I have a hard time
> > beliveing it.
> >
> > "The Clifton Elementary case has transcended
> the
> > attempt by a majority of this School Board to
> > close a well preserved, highly achieving
> community
> > anchor and only school in a 40-square-mile
> area."
> >
> > 40 square miles ???????
>
> Now, at my ol friend Dell Ave...
>
> Do you know what a square mile is?
> Clifton ES to Fairvies is 5.1 mi, to Union Mill is
> 3.4 and Oak View is 7.7... Lets look at the
> map...
>
> View Larger Map
>
> Yes, 40 square miles looks very accurate...


That is SOOO awesome.
wish it was 80 sq miles.

If we could all stop hurling insults and just look at the facts, this would be a better place. Think you win here simply with the last word, anyone?

Then you'll likely be asleep at the wheel when they damage your neighborhood. Take another look at the paragraph that discusses declining enrollment here. http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=351804&paper=81&cat=110

Then do your homework, and check into the numbers yourself. Pull out a calculator. Don't take anyone's blanket statements at face value until you've crunched the numbers yourself. I know it's work, but that's how one forms valuable opinions that are worthy of debate.

And just wait until the nearby schools need even more space than trailers will provide. This "solution" is short sighted. Time will tell.


Roc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Build new versus renovate can be a complex and
> difficult decision process when there is a
> significant cost differential. Build new provides
> a facility with more modern and efficient
> electrical, HVAC, plumbing, and telecommunications
> backbone, something that cannot be equaled with
> renovation. Plus, build new provides a much longer
> useful life expectancy than renovation. Build new
> typically produces a facility with a 25 year
> expectancy before renovation. Renovation provides
> 10 years or less.
>
> When the costs are roughly equal, it quickly
> becomes a no-brainer. Of course, that assumes that
> you are a facilities management professional and
> not a politician. The School Board got it right,
> esp. if you take into account the declining
> enrollment in Clifton.
>
> Welcome to the 21st Century, Clifton, where the
> neighborhood school is no longer affordable.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> question for all: are buses really, seriously
> going to have to cross the Parkway at Popes Head
> now?


What's the big deal about crossing the Parkway at Popes Head? Other than waiting 5 minutes for a green light, plus a bit more for the red light runners?

that's funny........cause the same road intersection caused a HUGE commotion a cpl years back when it was all about the Islamic School

http://connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=330867&paper=81&cat=104

interesting how things work...................

Grammar Much? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Five acres Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 40 sq miles doesn't entitle Clifton to an
> > expensive school fraught with repair needs for
> a
> > declining and small school population.
> > But we already covered this.
> > More importantly, who will bring the tissues to
> > the party!
>
>
> If you had matriculated from Clifton Elementary,
> you would know:
>
>
> Definition of TOO
>
> 1: besides, also 'sell the house and furniture
> too'
> 2 a: to an excessive degree : excessively 'too
> large a house for us' b: to such a degree as to be
> regrettable 'this time he has gone too far' c:
> very 'didn't seem too interested'
> 3: so “I didn't do it.” “You did too.”
>
> Examples of TOO:
> He saw something, and she saw it too.
> I want to go too!
> The soup is too hot.
> The offer was too good to refuse.
>
> You are too stupid to have read this far.

wtf? You're stupid for even writing this.

Is that you Ms. (Sarah Palin) Schultz?

Seems to me if anyone really cared, they'd go there on the last day, June 30th and chain themselves to the school in protest. I know I'll be there. Is there anyone else who will join me in saying FU to the school board???

I live in Clifton and SOME of the parents are so selfish.

My kids have come to accept their new school.

I hope the parents can get a grip and move on.

PS It is mostly the stuck up PTA moms who are into clicks and suck. I am happy to meet new people outside of Clifton.

As much as I hate what the clifton community has become I will still shead a tear in honer of the old place.

Do you need CERT there for this?

We need drinks!

Clifton Winery here we come!

Clifton wine.................it's made out of corn, isn't it?

LoLz

In the early 50's, Fairview parents were in an uproar because some of their kids were being redistricted to the brand new Clifton School. Clifton was ghetto back then.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

I am thinking of mailing a box of wine to Liz Bradsher to thank her for the mess she started.

Ghetto wine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am thinking of mailing a box of wine to Liz
> Bradsher to thank her for the mess she started.


Liz did her job. She deserves a ton of respect.

dell ave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liz did her a job on her constituents and the county. She deserves a ton of respect bricks dropped on her.

Fixed.

dell ave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ghetto wine Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am thinking of mailing a box of wine to Liz
> > Bradsher to thank her for the mess she started.
>
>
> Liz did her job. She deserves a ton of respect.

+1
Agreed. I understand why the Clifton residents hate her, but she made the hard right choice over the easier wrong one (which would have been to look the other way and keep CES open).

Tired of this already. If you're doing to TRY to stir the pot (really?!) at least give some compelling point other than "all my friends and me think so". Give one shred of evidence (valid and proven numbers, please) - otherwise choose some other board.

@oh please - you know, if yr sick of this, you should really try that little "X" at the top right of yr screen there. o_0

eh, it would be better if they just trot out the same old misinformation, at least.

I thought this was a place people could be a little enlightened, see other points of view (preferably, opinions supported by some facts) Otherwise, it's horribly adolescent. One has to weed through all the junk just to see some other well-supported points of view. The one I commented on - ? not.

better to let those who need to vent, vent. It's a VERY emotional issue. I wouldnt want my kids to end up in a trailer over this, and it looks like some kids are gonna have to deal with that crap.

It's not just the kids of Clifton being punished over this, y'know? Myself, I seriously doubt that those 3 other schools are really prepared to handle the crowding.

agreed! So I can't understand why folks on the other side of this need to vent. (or counter vent) Can't they leave damage done alone?

I really do hope, as this all unfolds, the effects are accurately reported, and mitigated, to the extent possible. I won't even go on with my hopes about karma for everyone. It will be interesting to see how this all works out, to say the least.

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> better to let those who need to vent, vent. It's
> a VERY emotional issue. I wouldnt want my kids to
> end up in a trailer over this, and it looks like
> some kids are gonna have to deal with that crap.
>
> It's not just the kids of Clifton being punished
> over this, y'know? Myself, I seriously doubt that
> those 3 other schools are really prepared to
> handle the crowding.

Does anyone know if there will be free food at this party?
I figure these stuck up clifton people may have some good stuff.
Im not into hotdogs, those things are made out of lips and assholes.
Some shrimp would be nice.

ok, freeloader - just out of curiosity - how do you "know" that the ppl of Clifton are "stuck up"?

Cant imagine what you are thinking in yr head about the place LoLz

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok, freeloader - just out of curiosity - how do
> you "know" that the ppl of Clifton are "stuck
> up"?

Not hard to tell. Just read the posts here. Focus on the FOIA email thread first.

I think that even if the closing decision was not the right thing to do, the attitude and immaturity of Clifton residents, as depicted here and especially so in public with the FOIA requests, frivolous lawsuits, hate mail and letters to the editors turned off the rest of the county as a whole.

The behavior is like a group of spoiled brats who did not get their way.

well actually, it seems like a buncha scared ppl who are desperate for their little school not to close, is all.

If this had happened to Rose Hill or Hybla Valley Elementary Schools, and the parents acted just as passionate, I doubt you'd be calling them "stuck up"

I know I wouldnt want my kids bussed out my neighborhood to go to school in a trailer without a fight, that's for sure......................

I am glad someone on this thread knows how we feel about our great school closing.

Shame on the SB and Jack Dale for being so blind and to hurt many kids in the county from this process. Clifton is not going to be the only school to suffer from this mess.

Name calling is childish and we are far from spoiled brats.

Thansk again Gordon Blvd.

not a problem, Thanks

I still dont get the animosity towards an entire community for simply banding together for the sake of their kids, y'know?

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not a problem, Thanks
>
> I still dont get the animosity towards an entire
> community for simply banding together for the sake
> of their kids, y'know?


I don't think it's too difficult to understand. There is the NIMBY aspect by a fiscal conservative enclave, the appearance of a sense of entitlement (whether there is or isn't, the perception is still there), the concept that the community fought this due to race and integration, a larger WSHS community wanting their repairs bumped in the queue, and the hate mail and comments directed to the FCPS Board by Clifton residents.

There is probably more, but that's enough to explain much of the animosity.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

The supreme court of VA upheld the school board. Does anyone think that this will go to the Supreme Court of the United States?

Just to clarify - they didn't uphold the school board. They just refused to hear the case. There's a difference - but FCPS and some of the press ignored that distinction. The VA Supreme court is understaffed (long story) and can't hear so many cases.

There is another lawsuit outstanding. Go to redapplemom's blog to get more info.

Concerned Parents Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The supreme court of VA upheld the school board.
> Does anyone think that this will go to the Supreme
> Court of the United States?

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > not a problem, Thanks
> >
> > I still dont get the animosity towards an
> entire
> > community for simply banding together for the
> sake
> > of their kids, y'know?
>
>
> I don't think it's too difficult to understand.
> There is the NIMBY aspect by a fiscal conservative
> enclave, the appearance of a sense of entitlement
> (whether there is or isn't, the perception is
> still there), the concept that the community
> fought this due to race and integration, a larger
> WSHS community wanting their repairs bumped in the
> queue, and the hate mail and comments directed to
> the FCPS Board by Clifton residents.
>
> There is probably more, but that's enough to
> explain much of the animosity.


I don't know about "race and integration" as it relates to the school closing. The Washington Post's Metro section(front page) recently had a picture of a large group of Clifton Elementary students which illustrated a high and refreshing level of diversity. Those playing the race card seem to be grabbing at straws. Perhaps, however, being the conservative paper that it is, the Post has a hidden agenda and took this photo to distort the true demographics.

When is Clifton Days?

freeloader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon Blvd Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ok, freeloader - just out of curiosity - how do
> > you "know" that the ppl of Clifton are "stuck
> > up"?
>
> Not hard to tell. Just read the posts here. Focus
> on the FOIA email thread first.
>
> I think that even if the closing decision was not
> the right thing to do, the attitude and immaturity
> of Clifton residents, as depicted here and
> especially so in public with the FOIA requests,
> frivolous lawsuits, hate mail and letters to the
> editors turned off the rest of the county as a
> whole.
>
> The behavior is like a group of spoiled brats who
> did not get their way.


You hit the nail on the head freeloader. I took the day off work today so I can be at CES at 4:30. I attended CES back when Clifton was a community that was respectable so I'll be there for the memories. I will try to ignore the cry baby selfish pukes that reside in this area today.

I took a tour of my child's new school. The principal talked about how strong the school community is, a bonding of parents, teachers, and families. If the SB decided to close this school, I believe that this community would fight like hell to save it, just as much as the Clifton parents did.

People who judge Clifton parents for fighting to keep their school open, don't know what it's like to have their school threatened. Hope it never happens to you.

perspective Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I took a tour of my child's new school. The
> principal talked about how strong the school
> community is, a bonding of parents, teachers, and
> families. If the SB decided to close this school,
> I believe that this community would fight like
> hell to save it, just as much as the Clifton
> parents did.
>
> People who judge Clifton parents for fighting to
> keep their school open, don't know what it's like
> to have their school threatened. Hope it never
> happens to you.


Both of my kids had to change schools a couple of times, it was no big deal. I think it was a positive thing for them they learned to deal with a bit of diversity. The experience was a great life lesson.

jmu dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> perspective Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I took a tour of my child's new school. The
> > principal talked about how strong the school
> > community is, a bonding of parents, teachers,
> and
> > families. If the SB decided to close this
> school,
> > I believe that this community would fight like
> > hell to save it, just as much as the Clifton
> > parents did.
> >
> > People who judge Clifton parents for fighting
> to
> > keep their school open, don't know what it's
> like
> > to have their school threatened. Hope it never
> > happens to you.
>
>
> Both of my kids had to change schools a couple of
> times, it was no big deal. I think it was a
> positive thing for them they learned to deal with
> a bit of diversity. The experience was a great
> life lesson.


Spending a month in the slums of Southeast could be a good life lesson, too. Wanna send lil Johnnie and Suzie out to chill with the East Capital Crew?

My point is this, No one says this is gonna kill the kids. I know kids who grew up all over the world who have turned into some of the most well-rounded people I know. On the other hand, none of them have a true identity of who they are and where they are from; a hometown culture which was obviously a strong draw to many of Cliftons newer residents.

clarification Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to clarify - they didn't uphold the school
> board. They just refused to hear the case.
> There's a difference - but FCPS and some of the
> press ignored that distinction. The VA Supreme
> court is understaffed (long story) and can't hear
> so many cases.
>
> There is another lawsuit outstanding. Go to
> redapplemom's blog to get more info.
>

> Concerned Parents Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The supreme court of VA upheld the school
> board.
> > Does anyone think that this will go to the
> Supreme
> > Court of the United States?

That's not what this article on WTOP says:


Va. Supreme Court upholds decision to close Clifton Elementary
Saturday - 6/4/2011, 9:48am ET
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2409615

CLIFTON, Va. - The Supreme Court of Virginia has upheld the decision by the Fairfax County School Board to close Clifton Elementary School.

The school board voted to close the school in July. The board cited multiple reasons for the closure, including renovation costs, declining enrollment, safety issues and the poor quality of well water used in the building.

A group of parents sued the school board last August, seeking to overturn the decision.

Dennis J. Smith, the Chief Judge of the Circuit Court, ruled in favor of the School Board in December.

The court has ruled that there was no reversible error in the decision

jmu dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I believe that this community would fight like
> > hell to save it, just as much as the Clifton
> > parents did.
> >
> > People who judge Clifton parents for fighting
> to
> > keep their school open, don't know what it's
> like
> > to have their school threatened. Hope it never
> > happens to you.
>
>
> Both of my kids had to change schools a couple of
> times, it was no big deal. I think it was a
> positive thing for them they learned to deal with
> a bit of diversity. The experience was a great
> life lesson.

+10

Served in the military and our kids went to a few schools. It broadened their experience and was definitely positive. Of course, as parents we didn't portray it as an awful thing, or have them protest. We presented it as an adventure, and they learned a lot.

I think some of the Clifton parents have filled their kids with dread of the future, not a good way to proceed.

And you'll see, Dennis is on the Circuit Court, not the VA Supreme Court. http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/scv/supreme.html (thought the url might drive this home)

for those who traveled the world over, and went to different elementary schools, good for you. If you were in a congested suburban/urban area, and had to be bussed for over 30-45 min. as an elementary kid, I'd love to hear from you. Country kids? ok - I get that - it comes with the territory.

Saying the VA supreme court upheld the decision, when they didn't even hear the case, is misleading. They refused to hear the case. Some say semantics, but there is a difference. They didn't hear the case.


Concerned Parents Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clarification Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just to clarify - they didn't uphold the school
> > board. They just refused to hear the case.
> > There's a difference - but FCPS and some of the
> > press ignored that distinction. The VA Supreme
> > court is understaffed (long story) and can't
> hear
> > so many cases.
> >
> > There is another lawsuit outstanding. Go to
> > redapplemom's blog to get more info.
> >
>
> > Concerned Parents Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The supreme court of VA upheld the school
> > board.
> > > Does anyone think that this will go to the
> > Supreme
> > > Court of the United States?
>
> That's not what this article on WTOP says:
>
>
> Va. Supreme Court upholds decision to close
> Clifton Elementary
> Saturday - 6/4/2011, 9:48am ET
> http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2409615
>
> CLIFTON, Va. - The Supreme Court of Virginia has
> upheld the decision by the Fairfax County School
> Board to close Clifton Elementary School.
>
> The school board voted to close the school in
> July. The board cited multiple reasons for the
> closure, including renovation costs, declining
> enrollment, safety issues and the poor quality of
> well water used in the building.
>
> A group of parents sued the school board last
> August, seeking to overturn the decision.
>
> Dennis J. Smith, the Chief Judge of the Circuit
> Court, ruled in favor of the School Board in
> December.
>
> The court has ruled that there was no reversible
> error in the decision

HA HA! Your precious little school has been closed forever as of three hours ago....

Nelson M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HA HA! Your precious little school has been closed
> forever as of three hours ago....
>
> IT WILL RE OPEN AS A CHARTER SCHOOL. SO JUST STOP!!! THIS IS JUST A GREAT SCHOOL. THIS SCHOOL WILL RE OPEN.

read it, then google it Wrote:
>
> for those who traveled the world over, and went to
> different elementary schools, good for you. If
> you were in a congested suburban/urban area, and
> had to be bussed for over 30-45 min. as an
> elementary kid, I'd love to hear from you.
> Country kids? ok - I get that - it comes with the
> territory.
>

I grew up in Saratoga in springfield in the 70's and 80's. I went to Crestwood ES, which was easily a 30 minute bus ride. Then Key MS, which was 30+ and then Lee HS, which was variable, but usually 45 minutes. This was all Pre County Parkway.
I managed to somehow survice this ordeal, and go on to college and graduate school. Many of my friends from Saratoga also went through this, and are also success stories.
Elementary school, middle school, and high school all were at mediocre, low-achieving parts of the county (at that time, we didn't have westfields to take up the banner) that required a commute much longer than anything your kids will experience, and I'm currently not smoking crack in a box under a bridge.
After teaching your children in the adult phase of their lives for the past 15 years, it's painfully obvious that their elementary schooling had little to do with their success. It's how involved YOU as a parent are in their lives and making sure they are performing well. I've taught students that came out of elite prep schools from day 1, such as The Potomac School, and kids that came out of PG county, and well, not all the kids from Potomac were shining examples of society (granted, i don't teach at an Ivy, nor even a pseudo Ivy), and not all the kids out of the hood were uneducated thugs.

it's interesting to realize that Nelson M has some sorta hard-on over the fact Clifton Elem got closed.............why do y'all think that is?

The Clifton kids will adjust well and get through this. That is not the point. The point is the school was unnecessarily closed for reasons that will come in the future and not because of cost of renovation, cost per pupil, well water (or any of the other excuses that were given) and to the detriment of all the other surrounding schools and the domino effect the closing has created. It will be interesting to see what becomes of the property.

The land that it sits on is probably worth at least 3-4 elementary schools. I'm amazed that it lasted this long. Marshall HS is also in a similar situation. It's the smallest HS in the county, but has how many acres on route 7? The land alone has to be worth tens to hundreds of millions of dollars.

Professor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The land that it sits on is probably worth at
> least 3-4 elementary schools. I'm amazed that it
> lasted this long. Marshall HS is also in a
> similar situation. It's the smallest HS in the
> county, but has how many acres on route 7? The
> land alone has to be worth tens to hundreds of
> millions of dollars.

Acres on Route 7 vs 14 acres that can only be subdivided into 3 almost 5 acre lots are VERY different. I doubt you could get more than a million or maybe 1.5 mil for the land Clifton sits on. Haven't checked county tax records, it could be considerably less.

Professor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The land that it sits on is probably worth at
> least 3-4 elementary schools. I'm amazed that it
> lasted this long. Marshall HS is also in a
> similar situation. It's the smallest HS in the
> county, but has how many acres on route 7? The
> land alone has to be worth tens to hundreds of
> millions of dollars.

Marshall isn't the smallest HS in the county - the physical plant at McLean and perhaps other schools is smaller, and the enrollment at Falls Church HS is lower. The enrollment has also been increasing, and the expectation is that there will be more students when Tysons gets additional housing. That's why FCPS is spending all the money to renovate it now.

But, yeah, it does sit on a valuable site.

Land in that area of Clifton goes for around $100,000 per acre, 5 acre minimums and each of the 5 acre plots must "perk" as there is no available sewer system.

Assessed Tax Value sits at $1.1 Mil for the Clifton site

Gordon Blvd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's interesting to realize that Nelson M has some
> sorta hard-on over the fact Clifton Elem got
> closed.............why do y'all think that is?

I enjoy others misery. Ever hear the term schadenfreude?

That should build free housing on the land for retired FCPS teachers. After 30 years of work you can't expect someone to get by on an $100,000 pension!! The taxpayers will pay for it.

If you ever took the time to volunteer, MAYBE you'd find out that Clifton PTA moms are far from stuck up. "Cliques" are not the same thing as cooperation. These are the people who bust tail to make sure the best programs are provided to your child/children. What a stupid, thoughtless, arrogant remark.

jnm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you ever took the time to volunteer, MAYBE
> you'd find out that Clifton PTA moms are far from
> stuck up. "Cliques" are not the same thing as
> cooperation. These are the people who bust tail to
> make sure the best programs are provided to your
> child/children. What a stupid, thoughtless,
> arrogant remark.

are they hot?

JBass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Land in that area of Clifton goes for around
> $100,000 per acre, 5 acre minimums and each of the
> 5 acre plots must "perk" as there is no available
> sewer system.
>
> Assessed Tax Value sits at $1.1 Mil for the
> Clifton site


100 grand per acre? The land my crappy house in a crappy part of Springfield sits on is valued at 173 grand, and I've got 8528 sq ft, or .19 acres according to the Fairfax County assessment webpage. And I'm nowhere near the county parkway, the mixing bowl, the metro or anything else that would make it worth more.

How in the hell is the land so cheap in Clifton? Every time I've gone through there it was nothing but tophats and monocles. Is the commute that bad? 5 wooded acres with nice houses on them usually goes for huge money. The commute can't be that bad from there. This smells of some sort of conspiracy by the cliftonites not to pay their taxes.

Not everyone who attended Clifton lives in Clifton proper. I live on one acre in a simple home. Top hats and monocles? Ridiculous! Yep, we're paying our taxes, but as to what's so special here? It's a Clifton thing, you wouldn't understand

Ringo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JBass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Land in that area of Clifton goes for around
> > $100,000 per acre, 5 acre minimums and each of
> the
> > 5 acre plots must "perk" as there is no
> available
> > sewer system.
> >
> > Assessed Tax Value sits at $1.1 Mil for the
> > Clifton site
>
>
> 100 grand per acre? The land my crappy house in a
> crappy part of Springfield sits on is valued at
> 173 grand, and I've got 8528 sq ft, or .19 acres
> according to the Fairfax County assessment
> webpage. And I'm nowhere near the county parkway,
> the mixing bowl, the metro or anything else that
> would make it worth more.
>
> How in the hell is the land so cheap in Clifton?
> Every time I've gone through there it was nothing
> but tophats and monocles. Is the commute that
> bad? 5 wooded acres with nice houses on them
> usually goes for huge money. The commute can't be
> that bad from there. This smells of some sort of
> conspiracy by the cliftonites not to pay their
> taxes.

Lol, I dunno. If I was to bet a per acre under/over on this I woulda lost WAY on the high side. I checked a few comps next door to the school and they all sit around the 100K mark.

That's town, not the entire attendance area

jnm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Top hats and monocles? Ridiculous!

Good thing you get sarcasm! You're not falling into any stereotype of stuck-up, arrogant, no-class, no sense of humor enjoying separatists who want their own special treatment, because they're special!


Yep, we're paying
> our taxes, but as to what's so special here? It's
> a Clifton thing, you wouldn't understand

Wow, you don't sound like a real stuck-up cunt or anything like that. Enjoy shipping your kids off to private school rather than make them mingle with foreigners.

And the fact that Clifton had the second highest performing elementary school in the County was a factor for many too

jnm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's town, not the entire attendance area


the $100,000 per acre of land on a perkable plot is standard in Clifton. Keep in mind that most all plots in Clifton are 5+ acres so you are still out half a mil before the building.

Let's see, my kids are lucky to count the children of immigrants from all over the world as their best friends. What's your damage?

There's a nice contemporary on 10 acres for sale on Yate's Ford Rd. Asking price $899K.

Those 10 acres are assessed at $584K for 2011. That's 58 grand per acre at that particular spot.

The land is probably not worth as much because you have to provide your own well and septic---right? In Springfield you are on the county water and sewer. You probably also have to pay for anything else (electric, cable, road) to be brought in. I'm just guessing. Also, you are forced to have 5 acres that you can't subdivide or develop in any way---it's just raw land.

Roc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herewegoagain,
>
> In fact it is too large for the school population that it supports, a >population that is getting smaller and smaller.


370 kids out of 374 is too large for the population how exactly?

in more than 25 years, lowest amount of kids was 366.

getting smaller how exactly?

a lie is a lie no matter how big or how small.
when you tell a lie there's no truth at all.
Attachments:

Benz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went to Canterbury Woods back in the day, right
> next to Holy Spirit.
> Was there a lot of ass-raping going on at Holy
> Spirit ??


in the 70's yes.