I remember reading something on here about the huge salaries, double dipping and benefits of the cops and firefighters but this is outrageous and happening now.

There is a battalion chief who is making about 130K base salary plus benefits doing his regular job. And he has retired but still working with the department making 130K base plus drawing his pension of about 110K and on top of that he is working with the Fairfax County Emergency Management in a totally separate position for another 70-80K.

His pay from the County is over $300,000 a year! On top of all that he is taking advantage of a brand new Ford F250 department truck to drive home and to his personal errands. If this is not a fleecing of the system we are not sure what is anymore. Several of us have seen this guy going to the grocery stores and restaurants in Loundon County in his department vehicle. We are going to post pictures this week.

So we ask you the taxpayers of Fairfax County should this be happening?

We try not to make it personal but on top of all that he is bragging out about how good he has it to his friends. While the regular workers have not had a raise in four years now.

We say ENOUGH is ENOUGH and let's call out the people who are fleecing the system. Do you have a story you can share?

Enough Enough! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember reading something on here about the
> huge salaries

I should think so, you wrote it.

You can't count pension in the number, he'd get that sitting at home and is under no obligation to go back to work to earn it.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

Enough Enough! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So we ask you the taxpayers of Fairfax County
> should this be happening?

Sure, why not?

Each of the things that single person is doing could would have been done by 3 individuals otherwise. Assuming he isn;t literally working two 8-hur/day jobs at the same time what he's doing is perfectly fine by me.

How did you obtain this information?

Some context would be helpful. I have no idea if $300K for a fire chief in a county our size is reasonable or not. While $300K is a lot it may be in line with other chiefs in similarly sized counties, if so I'd be less concerned. After all, I want to make the going rate for what I do.

However, if the average is $150k and he's making $300k - then I tend to agree with you.

FFX resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some context would be helpful. I have no idea if
> $300K for a fire chief in a county our size is
> reasonable or not.

You fell for the red herring in the post. He was including a retirement benefit payment in the misleading numbers.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

A contract is a contract.

OK I answered my own questions, see BLS website below which lists Battalion Chief nationla average salaries between $66K and $81K. In fairness you need to give him some head room as FFX Co is clearly one of the largest counties in the country so comparing him to rural counties in Alabama or Wyoming probably isn't going to give you an accurate number. In any event, $300K is a bit much. Although the original post doesn't get specific about how much he gets from his Chief job versus how much he gets from the other County Position. The double dip issue appears to be a bigger issue.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos329.htm

Yes the double dipper issue is the bigger part of this equation. The salary peeves alot of people because there haven't been any raises for general county employees. He is getting another salary and they wrote about the vehicle benefit. I have seen those county cars in Gainesville too. People should start snapping pictures and post them on this site.

It is easy to hide behind this forum but I do agree something does not smell right even if he is doing these jobs. Sounds like this guy is a typical white shirt in the county just very self0serving!

We should not forget that the fire and rescue department is shutting down ambulances to redistribute personnel to other fire stations. Meanwhile our friend Rohr continues to take advantage of the system while the system itself suffers. So yes I agree with the original intent that this is inappropriate and he should be called out.

But the populace of this richest most powerful nation on Earth, rather focus on cutting Teacher salaries.

Its also pathetic how under paid our armed forces are.

If you are seriously outraged, let's see you get out with a sign in front of a fire station. If not, enough with the trolling posts as you have made your point already.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009

The man put in his 20 years and retired. He deserves his pension. It was part of his compensation for his original 20 years of work. It doesn't matter if he's sitting on a beach in Jamaica, flipping burgers at a fast food joint, or FEMA director; he deserves his pension.

As it turns out, this individual is now working two more jobs, and collecting a salary for each one. What's wrong with that? If you worked as a cashier at WalMart during the day, and a stock person during the evening, would you do that for only 8 hours of pay? I sincerely doubt it. Sure sure, you can point out that I'm mentioning hourly jobs, but why are salaried jobs much different? He has two jobs with responsibilities to two different groups; he deserves two salaries.

You sound like the Republicans. Point at something that makes up a minuscule portion of the budget and say it needs cut, all the while ignoring the gigantic obligations that are truly going to sink us. Seriously, Fairfax County's budget is 3.3 BILLION dollars. This guy's total compensation equals .0091% (yes, less than one hundredth of one percent!) of the Fairfax County budget. Hell, I'd bet his pension doesn't even come out of the general fund either, instead coming from a pension fund specifically for that purpose.

Find another tree to bark up, you're not going to find any sympathy here.

Not mentioning the pension makes the nonsensical argument easier to make. That's why I say get out there with a sign or STFU as it is just trolling.

It is like arguing someone who retires at 60 and is pulling his money out of his 401k or IRA can't work at market rates because his retirement money should somehow "count" in the number. Dumb.

Enough Enough! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Re: Fairfax Fire Department Battalion Chief makes 300K !
>

There IS a difference between "Fairfax" and Fairfax County. You need to specify Fairfax City or Fairfax County. Your Subject is incorrect if you are referring to Fairfax County.

"... you're not going to find any sympathy here."

barf

Knuckleheads in FFX County ... and everywhere else - believe the following:

All firefighters, all cops, all teachers, etc. are all heroes. They need more money? We can't give enough. They are wonderful. Rudolph Guiliani? He liked NYC firefighters and cops - he's wonderful. Pensions? Let's give 'em more. A cop pulled us over and gave us a citation for not having a registration for the vehicle we just bought 10 minutes ago? We must've done something wrong. Sorry officer!

etc.

etc.

etc.

Let me get this straight... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The man put in his 20 years and retired. He
> deserves his pension. It was part of his
> compensation for his original 20 years of work.
> It doesn't matter if he's sitting on a beach in
> Jamaica, flipping burgers at a fast food joint, or
> FEMA director; he deserves his pension.
>
> As it turns out, this individual is now working
> two more jobs, and collecting a salary for each
> one. What's wrong with that? If you worked as a
> cashier at WalMart during the day, and a stock
> person during the evening, would you do that for
> only 8 hours of pay? I sincerely doubt it. Sure
> sure, you can point out that I'm mentioning hourly
> jobs, but why are salaried jobs much different?
> He has two jobs with responsibilities to two
> different groups; he deserves two salaries.
>
> You sound like the Republicans. Point at
> something that makes up a minuscule portion of the
> budget and say it needs cut, all the while
> ignoring the gigantic obligations that are truly
> going to sink us. Seriously, Fairfax County's
> budget is 3.3 BILLION dollars. This guy's total
> compensation equals .0091% (yes, less than one
> hundredth of one percent!) of the Fairfax County
> budget. Hell, I'd bet his pension doesn't even
> come out of the general fund either, instead
> coming from a pension fund specifically for that
> purpose.
>
> Find another tree to bark up, you're not going to
> find any sympathy here.


Well the thing is that if you take every piece of the budget it looks like just a tiny individual piece, which is what it is. However, if this illustrates a larger problem with the budget, then that is a different story.

However, I agree with you. The guy is doing nothing wrong. I think this complaining about pensions is all because virtually no one in the private sector gets them anymore. So, there's a certain amount of jealousy involved. One wonders why they aren't more angry that THEY no longer get pensions than why someone else does.

Even long ago no more than a third of the workforce ever had access to pensions. Small companies never had them, and with the dawn of the 401k small companies often match a portion of employee contributions. That is more than the nothing workers were getting in pensions. So the "good old days" of pensions applied to few, and the other two-thirds now are better off.

Well I'm guessing a third is more than who are getting it now, but point taken and well made. I do have to say the work environment has changed significantly now, as most people don't work at the same place/company for 20 years, so in many ways this change is understandable in any event. Still it would be a good incentive to keep employees for at least a few years. I've only been one place that offered them though and haven't heard of many that exist now. They offered 401K matching too on top of that.

Oh sure, now it is much less. But anti-pension arguments often call them a thing of the past (they pretty much are) but also frame it as some perk everyone used to have but now no one has (not correct). But people like the original thread poster paint a pension as if someone collecting one is evil, skimming off The People, etc. Including that number as some sort of component of current compensation is a part of that.

----------------------------------------

"She looks pretty good for 12, admit it." - WingNut, 04/24/2012

"I'm racist too. So what?" - Ellipsis 9/16/2011

"If you only knew who I was, and what I was working to do you would...have the decency to tell me I hated my nation and the way of life. I may not agree with...the government...I hate the "government"......" - Firrat 9/1/10

"there seems to be a queer...why? To try and further demean a defeated... dumb Tea party... I think we need more... far left folks on a regular basis - Louis Farakhan, Jesse Jackson...Al Sharpton" - Registered Voter, 8/19/2011

"If your computer is running slow, or you have any other problems, email me at with the problem and i am willing to fix it, for a price of course" - Taylor, spamming FFU on 04/12/2006. "N****rs as slaves again? I think so..." - Taylor, 09/20/2009




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2011 02:15PM by justsayin.

Johnny Walker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well the thing is that if you take every piece of
> the budget it looks like just a tiny individual
> piece, which is what it is. However, if this
> illustrates a larger problem with the budget, then
> that is a different story.

True, when viewed microscopically everything breaks up into small parts, but that's not what this poster is doing. He's complaining about a specific individual's salary, not the salary of all firemen or of all Battalion Chiefs even. That's either excessive nit-picking or this person is bitter he hasn't had that type of long-term commitment and success in things.

You folks don't get it! We all love firefighters but this guy is getting paid for two Fairfax County jobs at one time, until he retires from the Batallion job in July. At that point, his retirement salary will be based on the combined two incomes to make 300K. Don't know about the takehome vehicle, but not surprised. Common people, wake up!

Name the person. He is, after all, a public servant. Shame may be the only way to address this - people should know, by name, the people that are fleecing them.

I guess you did not work yourself up in your company risking your life.

Chairwoman Bulova of the FFX County Supervisors has had the name for two months.

Isn't the name mentioned in the above comment by BLS Tech?

I guess we should not really care because it is not costing anything to the taxpayers? Is there not any fleecing of tax dollars? May be there is and maybe there is not but one thing for sure is driving that vehicle around on the tax dollars fuel and maintenance probably is not the smartest thing this guy can do . He knows people are watching and yes some maybe jealous that they did not move up in the company but at the same time we know for a fact that this chief can barely do his own job yet alone another because he is barely even around. And he is burning his annual leave. So we will offer up some personal opinions, the reason too that people are calling him out is that this guy is a prick and I mean a real insecure prick of a guy. He never was a leader and has been very badge heavy since he received the gold badge. Is he not respected nor trusted. The other reason is he 100% all about himself so he is also a self serving prick bastard. Let's just call it the way it is. Mark has always had to rely on his badge and his brother's chief's badge to try to intimidate people. Really never accomplished anything for the good of the system. I say let him stay until July and that way he will understand what kind of a prick people think he is because no one will do anything for him. Really is sad to see this happening because his brothers are decent folks. You would think this selfserving, prick, rat bastard would learn.

No way a battalion chief should be making 130K base + benefits + pension.

In addition, his second job can be filled with the 100's of qualified people that have been laid off over the past 5 years.

Yeah, some dumb sheep, will see nothing wrong with this system (I do agree, the person is not doing anything wrong per se..I would have done the same)

its kind of sad but this country is going to have some very tough times ahead when the credit card finally gets declined. just make sure you are armed

This line is the funniest part of the OP:

Enough Enough! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember reading something on here about the
> huge salaries

There is nothing wrong with what this guy is doing and all of you would do the same thing if you were smart enough and kissed enough ass to obtain this gig. Just leave the truck in the county, stop talking about how how you will be withdrawing over 200K cash in July plus you received a raise when you entered the DROP and learn to be nice. And maybe just maybe someone will be nice to you. BE NICE, PLAY NICE!

ooooh dawgie -

ROHR,MARK A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF $135,635.43

Is he one of the idiots that drive their kids to softball and soccer games out of the county in their county government cars?

I see those guys in Gainesville with their unmarked suburbans and pick up trucks hauling their kids around in fairfax vehicles using county fuel.

Granddaddy retired onnce from the navy, once from GE and then built houses here in nova. I just don't understand how he maintains a job as A battalion chief and emergency management in a separate position at the same time. Forget the base and the pension, both are in line, I suppose, with lala lands pay structure, bu you would have to proove that you can not find a single other qualified candidate for either position hebcurrently holds. As in He is the only man in the county who possess these skillsets, especially if there are qualified candidates waiting promotion. I'm honestly surprised none of you could cut to the fat of this one

I think teachers, cops, firefighters, and other public servants should all be making good six figure salaries. They deserve it far more than some athlete who could paid millions this day-and-age.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Just Sayin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ooooh dawgie -
>
> ROHR,MARK A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE BATTALION CHIEF
> $135,635.43


He must be the brother of the FFX. City Fire Chief.

Btw, a little different name, but I wonder if PD Chief Rohrer and Fire Chief Rohr are in anyway related.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO), the fire laddies and lassies should be making over $ 500,000 a year. When you need them, they perform better than any doctor, lawyer or indian chief!

Mayor of Fairfax County Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In My Humble Opinion (IMHO), the fire laddies and
> lassies should be making over $ 500,000 a year.
> When you need them, they perform better than any
> doctor, lawyer or indian chief!

--------------------------------------------------
gotta admit.............................

A few things:

First, members in the field work a 56 hour workweek. We have 24 hour shifts. The schedule is WOWOWOOOO, W= work, O= off. When compared to someone working a 40 hour workweek, over the 25 years (not 20) that are required to reach full retirement, we actually work the equivalent of 33.75 40 hour workweek years. We're also paid straight time for 53 of those 56 hours, on the average, per FLSA laws. Our annual compensation is for an extra 40% hours worked over the typical 40 hour employee. Also, for every five 56 hour employees the fire dept hires, the county saves money on two positions (56x5 = 40x7), to include salasry, benefits, paid time off, equipment, training, retirement, etc. All of this needs to be considered when speaking out against public safety salary and benefits.

We have the DROP program. We're allowed to retire, be immediately rehired, earn our same salary, and also collect our pension benefit in deferred comp. Believe it or not, it doesn't cost the county. The county no longer has to contribute into our pension fund when we enter the DROP. The county makes out by not spending money to hire and train a new employee, and they get to keep a valued, experienced employee.

Thanks for the verification, and whoever has a problem with anything you wrote is a DNA waste who would wet his or her pants at the thought of living through any one of your long workweeks.

So what if the county (I mean taxpayers) throw in $116 million per year toward the retirement of this hard wroking individuals.

My gosh, they have to work until age 55!!

You people need to have a little respect and appreciate all they do for us.

I feel that retirement after 25 years of service (really 33.75 40 hour workweek-years) is appropriate. We're woken un abruptly once or several times at night, which results in an adrenaline dump and chronically disrupts our circadian rhythms. It's like having perpetual jet lag, and it also predisposes us to cardiac disease and hypertension. The firefighter's life expectancy is around seven years or so less than the national average - we're repeatedly exposed to the the toxic byproducts of combustion and diesel fumes. Various cancers are much more prevalent in firefighters. Heart attacks and other cardiac events are responsible for around half of the line of duty deaths each year. Look it up. On the EMS side, we're exposed to a whole array of diseases. We get the occasional needle stick, meningitis exposure, TB, etc. I know many a broken down medic. I know those who have blown out their shoulders, their backs, one guy at FS 405 suffered a 100% distal biceps tear and was out over six months. I pray that my back holds out every time I go to work. When the 300 plus pound patient is wedged between the toilet and the tub, or in the tub, and is circling the drain (no pun intended), we have to risk orthopedic injury to lift them and get them downstairs and out of the house. We nearly get run over on the interstate on occasion. It's why we block 2-3 lanes for every motor vehicle collision (they're not accidents).

This is what we sign up for when we apply for the job, I have no complaints, but I feel it's unfair for anyone to suggest that we're living high on the hog by qualifying for a pension after 25(56 hour/week) years.

BTW, degrees and an array of job related courses such as the NIMS series, the Officer series, and the Instructor series will be required to be eligible to sit for the promotional exam for various ranks of officers. It's not like we can just screw off in our youth, get a GED, put in a few years, and make six figures. A FF tops out at around 80k base, and that takes around 15 years give or take (I don't remember exactly).

"A FF tops out at around $80k base"





RYAN,THOMAS W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
RYAN,MATTHEW P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
PISANI,RALPH M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
NESMITH,VECKSER T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
MICHEL,PETER J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
HOLLINGSWORTH,GEORGE A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
CAPLE,SANDRA K FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
BRENNAN,MARK G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.56
WHITE,PAUL L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
WENTZEL,WAYNE P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
WEALAND,THOMAS J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
TSCHANN,GLENN F FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
TOBIN,DAVID P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
THOMPSON,KENDALL FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
THOMPSON,CHRISTOPHER FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
SYDNOR,RONALD B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
SMITH,RICHARD C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
RIFFE,TIMOTHY W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
POLEN,ELTON W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
PARKER,PAUL H FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
PALAU,JOSEPH FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
NASH,MARK A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MORAVITZ,BRIAN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MONTAGUE,DONALD P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MOHLER,ROBERT M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MILLER,STEPHEN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MCGEHEE,ROGER T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MCCULLEN,MICHAEL G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
MARSHALL,TODD M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
LEETE,JOHN L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
LANGE,DAVID G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
KISER,JOSEPH L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
KEYS,MICHAEL B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
JOHNSON,JAMES B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
JENKINS,LARRY E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
ISTVAN,MICHAEL A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
HEIDER,JAMES C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
HARRISON,JAMES T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
HARRIS,BRENDAN B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
HALL,TODD S FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GRIGG,WESLEY D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GRIFFIN,RAYMOND E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GRAHAM,PETER M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GEMSHEIM,RONALD A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
GARCIA,MICHAEL J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
DUBETSKY,KEITH M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
DIZE,GARY C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
DEAN,TROY H FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
CONRAD,DAVID P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
BUTLER,LEROY L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
BERQUIST,ROBYNN M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44
BEASLEY,OSCAR L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $110,800.44

@ not exactly,

Again, a firefighter tops out at around $80k base. You posted numerous individuals that have the rank of Capt I. Of course their salaries are going to be more than a firefighter.

We're compensated by grade and steps. For example, a firefighter is an 18/1. They start at around $48k/yr base. Each year, we get a step increase if the county executive approves it.BTW, our raises have been frozen since 7/09, and we've been told that we're not getting any step increases this year, either. Our steps are 5% each time. Once we get to step 8, we're frozen for two years, then one more steps, then frozen for five years, another step, and then the firefighter gets that 80k.

From firefighter, each promotion results in a 5-10% raise, no more, no less. From FF, you can promote to Technician, then Master tech, Lieutenant, Capt I, Capt II, Bat. Chief, Deputy Chief, Asst. Chief, then fire Chief. The list you've provided consists of individuals that have a lot of time in the department, as in 20+ years in many cases, and needed three to four promotions to receive that salary. Also, many of those on the list are in the field, working 56 hour weeks on the average, which is 40% more hours than the 40 hour employee, which lets the department save two positions on every five hired. Furthermore, the Capt I and above no longer fall under FLSA, so every hour worked, even OT, is straight time only.

Let me ask you, what point were you trying to make by posting the salaries of tenured Capt I's, who need several promotions to command that salary?

Another thing, the intention of the DROP was to enable our retirees to be able to afford health insurance post retirement. My plan costs over $1,200 a month, 25% of which we're responsible for, just like other county employees. When we retire, we can keep the county's insurance, but we must pay 100% of the premium from then on. What will it be in five years? Ten? Look at how much our premiums have jumped in the last five years or so. That $1,200 can easily become $2,000 or $3,000, or even more. We're not like other departments that give uniformed employees free health coverage for life> We also pay into our pensions; we always have. The county also took no holidays from it's retirement contributions, nor did they raid the fund. In fact, after the market tanked, they put in even more! Anyone with even the most rudimentary knowledge of personal finance knows that a market downturn is the same as these stocks being on sale. You have $100 to spend. You can buy ten shares at $100 if they're $10/share. If the price drops to $5/share, you can buy 20. Instead, spend $200, buy 20 shares, end enjoy the profit when the market returns to it's former level. You're basically buying 10 dollar shares for five. That's what the county did. It's not that difficult to comprehend. Our pension fund is quite solvent, and is doing better than most. It works well when it isn't raided, or if contributions are withheld in times of prosperity.

TORRES,MICHAEL E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
ROBERTS,WILLIAM G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
REGAN,MICHAEL P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
PAPOUTSIS,THOMAS J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
MISCOVICH,TIMOTHY J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
LANDSTREET,MICHAEL W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
FORBACH,ERIC D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
EDMONDSON,KEVIN A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
CONNOLLY,THOMAS M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
BRULEY,JON P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.10
YOUNG,DANIEL T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WRIGHT,DAVID S FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WOOLF,KELLY W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WILSON,JAMES D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WILLIAMS,MARCUS D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WHITE,MICHAEL FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WHEELER,ROBERT E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WHARTON,JEFFREY T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WEAVER,GEORGE W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WALMER,JACK L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
WALLACE,KRISTIN A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
VOZZOLA,GARY W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
VARNAU,DALE L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
URPS,DANNY R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
UNGER,DANA R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
SNYDER,JON W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
SMITH,LESLIE C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
OUDEKERK,JOHN N FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
OLEKSIA,JOSEPH A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
O'CONNOR,SEAN J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
NEUHAUS,BRUCE A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MULLINS,ANTHONY D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MORRISON,GERARD J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MORRIS,JAMES T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MORIN,GARY E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MONSEUR,EDMOND D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MILLS,CHARLES D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MELOY,THOMAS C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MASTERS,PETER B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MARTIN,CHARLES A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MARKS,MICHAEL J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
MALOF,MATTHEW P FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
LUECKE,CRAIG S FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
LOW,JAMES R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
KRATOCHVIL,JOSEPH M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
KLOPP,JEFFREY F FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
JOHNSON,WALTER E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
JOHNSON,RICHARD L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
JACKSON,GLENN C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
GRIFFIN,THOMAS J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
FOWLER,TIM E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
ERLENDSON,ERIC G FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DYE,BEN A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DICKERSON,ROBERT W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DIAZ,GEORGE L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DENNIS,JAMES L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
DAWLEY,RICHARD A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
CLARK,STEVEN D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
CHATMON,CARLTON FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BUNDY,WILLIAM F FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BRYANT,DAVID M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BRIGHT,RICHARD E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BRASWELL,LAWRENCE M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BOWMAN,EDWARD D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BOSWELL,KARRIE L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BOOKWALTER,JAMES R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BENDO,PETE J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
BARROW,ARNOLD J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
ALLEN,JEFFREY R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
ALLEN,CLIFTON FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
ADAMS,CHARLES F FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,932.05
STRAUBINGER,MARC L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,931.76
FERGUSON,SEAN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $95,931.76

WHITE,CINDY SUE FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
WELLS,OSCAR T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
STRICKLEN,JAMES R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
SHAW,DANIEL D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
SCHWARZMANN,DAVID FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
RATHBONE,BARRY JAMES FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
PERKINS,JAMES A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
MERRITT,JOSEPH DONALD FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
MASON,GLENN A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
MAHAM,BARRY W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
LOPEZ,MATTHEW MOLEIRO FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
KRAUT,SCOTT FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
KELLY,PATRICK T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
FISCHER,MICHAEL J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
EVANS,SEAN T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
EDWARDS,KEVIN FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
CUNNINGHAM,CHARLES R FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
BURNS,MATTHEW CHARLES FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07
ATWELL,WILLIAM J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPTAIN I $95,713.07

Hello Mr. Fairfax County EMS Douche I mean Tech,

You forgot to mention that you get an extra 10% for your medic certificate and you get an extra $3 an hour for working less on a call then most folks around you. And let us not forget that one of your only complaints is that your reporting tablet takes a long time to transmit information. Yep the tablet that you hold while everyone else is taking care of the patient and carrying all of your equipment. And time and a half for o/t and among other perks.

So there.

And no this is not Mark Rohr trying to divert attention from the fleecing of Fairfax County. I don't care how much gas is a gallon because I get all the diesel fuel I want for free. Yes this is the Mark Rohr is considered one of the biggest self centered jerk offs in the county. And no this is not me however I am making over $320,000 a year off of Fairfax County. Suckers!

Seriously....do we need all these people?????

How many fires are there in Fairfax County every year?


LEYDEN,SVENJA ELLEN FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
LEWIS,EVAN JOHN FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
LAVEROCK,KENNETH M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
KULEY,RONALD J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
JOHNSON,STEPHEN M FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
JACKSON,LLOYD B FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
HYDEN,WILLIAM T FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
HORTON,CHARLES W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
HIGGINBOTHAM,JOHN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
HENDERSHOT,MICHAEL D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
DECARLO,EDWARD D FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
BURROUGHS,EARL J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
BEST,WILLIAM MARVIN FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
BARRERA,MERVIN E FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.71
SLEPETZ,RICHARD S FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.58
ROGERS,JOHN W FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.58
RAY,CHARLEEN L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.58
BROWN,CYNTHIA LEE FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.58
TOMASELLO,PATRICIA FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
ROBBINS,GEORGE FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
FAYSON,TERRANCE LAMONT FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
BROCK,ADAM C FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
ALVARO,ROCCO FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.49
PLUNKETT,MARK J FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.42
HOUGHTON,TRENTON L FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.42
HOBGOOD,JAMES PETER FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.42
EDWARDS,DEREK A FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE LIEUTENANT $91,363.42

Hey numbnuts,

If you're going to complain about having to do work at work, go find another job and stop being an embarrassment to the department. I'll carry my own bags and do the work myself if it means hearing less of your pompous ~8yr "career" attitude.

Why don't you go to paramedic school and show us all how easy it is being one. Stop your bitching and start improving the system instead of cutting your coworkers down anonymously in a public forum, you self centered fucking douche bag.

still no $80k Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously....do we need all these people?????
>
> How many fires are there in Fairfax County every
> year?
>
-----------------------------------------------

hey DUMBASS!! youseroiusly saying you'd rather have MORE FIRES in the county in order to save $$$$$$$$$$$?

I'd point out that the firefighters do WAAAAAYYY MORE than just put out fires, but somehow, i dont think yr tiny little cerebellum could handle the data

LoLz

@ throwing the fag,

It's 5% for our cert pay. Any yes, we get $3/hr to ride the medic unit. We do around 70-80% of the call volume, and we're out for 1- 1 1/2 hours each call, depending on the station. Meanwhile, the engine is dispatched for many of these EMS calls, even though we don't need the help (a good number of us came from other systems where just the two of us can handle most patients). You're back at PT, dinner, your bed, or whatever. I'm not complaining, it's just the fact of the matter. I also earned my EMS degree on my own, while working full time. By comparison, to make technician, what did you have to do? A two week hazmat class? Some TROT certs here or there? Some on duty self study for the apparatus test?

EMS = much more education than either of the other specialties, more call volume, higher utilization hours for the ALS txp unit, skills and education that are used much more frequently on a regular basis, and must be maintained. Hence the $5K cert pay, the hourly stipend, and the OT opportunities. The OT is copious because less people want to be medics, because it's one of the less desireable positions within the department. OT is copious because many drop their ALS cert, usually due to burnout, which is another reason for the more generous compensation. nothing's stopping you from earning your ALS cert. the FRD is sponsoring another ALS school, and others have gone out on their own to get it.

@ still no 80k,

You're getting closer, only three ranks away from firefighters. These are Lieutenants, at the top of their pay grade, which takes many years, like I said earlier. Post the Master Techs, Techs, then finally post firefighters, to get your 80k. Do I have to hold your hand?

Also, we have around 1400 employees or so. We have 37 engines. Each one has an officer on it, with three techs or FF's. Same for our eight Squads. Each of our 14 Trucks/Towers has an officer and two FF's. Each EMS PTU has an officer on it as well. There are many more FF's and techs than officers. If you need an education about the importance of timeliness and adequate staffing for fir suppression, go to youtube and search for the Fairfax County (VA) Truck Staffing Video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_K-K6o5cGc

What's more, we do a lot more than fire suppression. There are alarm bells, gas leaks, CO alarms, outside/brush fires, public service such as putting the elderly back in bed after getting stuck on the floor, MVC's, EMS first response, EMS transport, placing and checking on smoke detectors, Technical Rescue, Hazmat incidents, etc. etc.

If you think we're overstaffed and overdeployed, then move to PG county and depend on their service. They do a great job, but they're horribly understaffed. They use us for mutual aid all the time, mostly from FS 405 and FS 411, and never have the resources to pay us back. Maybe ask their taxpayers to give a subsidy for using our services on a very frequent basis.

Retiree Issues



There are currently four issues the retirees are focusing on. The first issue is maintaining the status quo on our health care subsidy. This is the monthly payment retirees receive from the county to assist with the cost of their health insurance premiums. With implementation of GASB 45 we are concerned that county only contributed 50% of the projected amount to the fund for FY 2009



The second issue is to have the remainder of the Social Security offset for disability retirees removed. At age 62 a disability retiree must file for SS benefits and then the benefits paid by the county are reduced by 64% of the SS benefits received. The offset is a financial punishment for those who have retired on disability. In the past two years, while working with the Local, we have seen the offset drop from 64% to 30%. Today the reduction is 30% and by next July we hope to have it removed completely.



The third issue is to work with the Local to seek legislation in the Virginia General Assembly that will provide a funding mechanism for the Line of Duty Trust Fund. This fund currently provides free health care insurance to State Police officers and a limited number of PSO’s. The new funding would include PSOs who retired in the mid 1960’s.



The fourth issue is to have the 4% cap on our Cost Of Living Adjustments increased to 5%. Retired police officers, if the fund allows, can receive maximum 5% COLA each year. Members of the Uniformed Retirement System are capped at 4%, regardless of how well the fund does. We will be working with the Local and the Retirement Board Trustees to have this change implemented.

1,932 firefighters for 300 fires??????


Fairfax County
Fire & Rescue Department
Annual Summary (FY 2010)
(July 1, 2009 - June 30, 2010)

FY10 ..........$164,792,296
FY09 ..........$164,698,315
FY08 ..........$165,635,104


Uniformed .............. 1,381
Civilian ..................141
Civilian, Seasonal ........119
Volunteers
(operational) ..............291
Advanced Life Support
(ALS) Engines ............ 37
Medics ...................... 38
Ambulances ................. 4
Haz mat Units .............. 2
Trucks ...................... 14
Aerial Ladders ............ 7
Tower Ladders ........... 7
Tankers ....................... 5
Rescues ...................... 8



Accidental Fires ....... 103
Incendiary Fires ........80
Other Fires ............. 103
Undetermined Fires ... 14
Hazardous Materials. 425

Fairfax County
Fire & Rescue Department
Annual Summary (FY 2009)
(July 1, 2008 - June 30, 2009)

246 fires

Accidental Fires ......... 97
Incendiary Fires ........ 93
Other Fires ............... 49
Undetermined Fires .....7
Haz Mat ................. 421
Investigations

A perfect example of why they are underpaid.....



Two Fairfax County firefighters were struck by an SUV driven by an EMS supervisor Tuesday evening as they attempted to help a cyclist who had been hit by a car. The injuries are not life threatening.


Fairfax County Fire & Rescue Department spokesman Dan Schmidt says a captain responding to the crash as EMS 401 was behind the wheel of the SUV. Engine 404 and Medic 404 from Herndon were already on the scene. The EMS 401 vehicle was described as moving slowly through the area when the collision occurred.

The incident took place near the intersection of Wiehle Avenue and Dranesville Road just before 8:00 PM.

The cyclist and one of the firefighters were flown by helicopter to Inova Fairfax Hospital. The other firefighter was taken by ground to Reston Hospital Center. Both firefighters have been treated and released. No word on the cyclist.

It is not fair you complain about their salary. It should be a pay for performance. For every fire you put out you get bonus. If you are office worker or dead beat person you have to also work the line. Cut programs that are not needed in the fire department and save good tax payer money.

you've got to be dumb as a bag of rocks (drunk rocks at that) if you seriously think the "firefighters" only fight fires, and just sit around the rest of the time.


...........................as dumb as a bag of fucking rocks. o_0

People...if you think FF's have such a gravy life become one! You bitchers made your choice. Take a leap and make a career change or STFU!

Hey whiners, do the F.D a favor and don't call when your elderly parent slips and falls and you cant lift them by yourselves, and you have no friends to help you because you are such a douche. Handle it on your own if think the F.D is such a waste....K?

You made your choice, live with it and don't hate others that you think have it a little better than you. I bet 99% of you people could not hang for 6 months on one of the busier units. I bet you cry like a little girl when your shift is working their 3rd Christmas in a row. Then just when your family comes to see you, you run a call for somebody that has a very painful hang nail....

Bunch of fucking babies! You made your bed, now sleep in it!

Seriously? Pay for performance? Go across the river and see how many fires go down over there. Translate that into taxpayer money lost, and you can get an idea how much money the FD saves the county in preventable losses. Pay for performance has no appropriae existence in emergency response.

You'd be the first to bitch when cops wrote your speeding/txtin ass a ticket because they get paid/performance.


Fucking douche

What exactly is your mother or fathers life worth? Would you put them in the ground to get $50,000?

Parents, most of you would trade your life to spare your childs.

Now, how would you treat the person who is willing to make that same sacrifice for your family and they have never laid eyes on you? How about the family they leave behind?

For fucks sake people...When will we get out of this god awful ME generation?

You guys are all idiots. I am going to take my new F-350 provided by Fairfax County and their and go drink at Old Dominion Brewery.

EMS = problEMS

Yes I am still laughing at all of you suckers!

I'm not Mark Rohr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys are all idiots. I am going to take my new
> F-350 provided by Fairfax County and their and go
> drink at Old Dominion Brewery.
>
> EMS = problEMS
>
> Yes I am still laughing at all of you suckers!
------------------------------------------------------

let me guess, you didnt pass an EMS test, right?
Attachments:

@ 300 fires,

It would be nice if we had a crystal ball, and could predict when and where those 300 fires and 400 Hazmat calls will happen. We don't, so adequate staffing and deployment are critical. In case you didn't know, the county has around 395 square miles and a million or more residents, I believe. How do you expect us to cover that amount of area with a skeleton crew?

Do you know what resources are needed for a box alarm? It takes a lot more than one or two crews to operate on the fireground. It's four engines, two trucks, a heavy rescue, a medic unit, an EMS Capt, and two BC's. Do you know what their assignments are and why? Of course you don't. You revealed your ignorance towards our department by first fixating on only fire calls and conveniently ignoring all the rest, and also including civillian personnel and all volunteers as firefighters. How can we take your opinions seriously in the face of such ignorance?

@ onlyone,

How do you propose we do pay for performance? What criteria would you use, and what weighting would you give to each category? The fire service is not like the corporate world. How would you measure performance?

@ I'm not Mark Rohr,

You're a mutt.

FTM-PTB

As far as EMS, the department doesn't see EMS as problEMS (try and be more original next time, that ones been played out many times over). They hired only medics for the 127-130th recruit schools, 12 more in the academy right now, we have two OMD's that ride in the field regularly, we have an ALS internship, our medics are compensated quite well. We have a PA, NP, BSN's and such teaching ALS interns and also our continuing education at EMSCEP. That's a lot of resources to throw at something that you say nobody wants. If it were so easy to hire medics here, they never would have implemented riding pay as a hiring and retention tool. Notice how it still hasn't gone away?

Maybe you guys are right, we should disband the FD, and hire private companies instead. We can use Wackenhut for fire suppression, and AMR or rural Metro for EMS. Good luck when two overworked, underpaid, disgruntled animals with a combined two year's experience between the both of them, on a banged up vanbulance (pulse and a patch is the way of the privates) show up and you're supposed to trust your well being and property to them. Hopefully they can have an ambulance to you in a timely fashion, since they often pull 911 units, which make no money, to do hospital interfacility transports, which do make them money.

Wackenhut has had it's share of problems as well. Google them and see for yourself.....

You can make it all volunteer. Break fairfax up into small towns.

How do you propose we go 100% volunteer? Or even combo like P-Willy, Loudon, Stafford, etc? As you can see from the 2010 stats, we have less than 300 operational volunteers. The vast majority of those volunteers are EMS only. Many of those only ride once in a blue moon, let alone once a week. Many yet are basically ghosts until an instillation dinner or annual open house comes around. The very reason we have 24/7 career staffing in all our stations is because of dwindling volunteer participation.

Look across the country. Departments start out volunteer. Then, to help out with reduced participation, they may do paid on call. Next, they hire one or two paid FF in some of their stations during the day, since the volunteers must work, and can only do nights/weekends. Then, it's FT paid staffing during the day in each of their stations. then, it's the addition of FT paid staffing at night for the stations that can't put their units in service. then, it's 24/7/365 in every station.

In addition, look at New Jersey. They have their fire service broken up into a bunch of volunteer fiefdoms. Their resources are redundant, so there's plenty of waste there, and they're also fiercely territorial. They have more than their fair share of problems, and could stand to consolidate for the good of their citizens.


What would you suggest?

EMS TECH said that most uniformed fire employees work a 56 hour schedule, that 53 out of 56 hours are straight time, those 56 hours are 40% more than the 40 hour employee, and that for every five 56 hour employee hired, the county saves having to pay benefits, days off, sick leave, medical benefits, pensions, and also hiring costs for the recruitment process, etc for two employees, assuming a 40 hour workweek.

so, the Capt I in the field, doing shift work, making 110,800 a year would be making just under 80k at 38 an hour if they only worked 40 hours a week. The LT making 91,363 a year is making 31.50 an hr, for 65k a year if working 40 hours. that basic FF topping out at 80k? 27.50 an hour, which would be 57,200 a year, after working 15 years or more to get to that point.

Remember, each employee in the field is working an additional 16 hours, mostly straight time, or in the case of a Capt and above, all straight time. Again, the county saves on hiring, benefits, retirement, etc. for two employees on every five. Also, they're getting the additional hours that replace these two employees that they don't have to hire, on straight time, not time and a half for most of those hours. The county basically gets built in per diem workers for no additional cost in hiring, training, support staff, etc.

That 110k, that 91k, that 80k, which take many years to get, don't seem so grandiose, now does it? A basic FF comes in at 48,877. That's 16.78 an hour. for a 40 hour week, that's 35k. the other 14k is forced OT, when you think about it.

Let's compare apples to apples when speaking out against firefighter salaries. 110k, or 91k, or even 80k topped out salaries, not starting salaries btw, can bring about sticker shock, until you look at the additional built in OT that's required to reach those numbers.

Work?

How is sitting around the fire house bsing with your friends, watching tv, eating free food, work?

Nice try.

They fight how many fires A YEAR? Not day, YEAR? 20? 30?

It's not like you guys are dragging babies out of burning buildings every day.

I am all for an hourly wage-FOR WORK.

Equipment checks and maitenance, housework, mandatory monthly in station powerpoint drills (several), street drills, multi company outdoor drills, 1-2 hours of mandatory physical training every day, building walk throughs and pre plans, for starters. we're not sitting on out butts goofing off al day. And all of this is in between running calls. Clifton, Gunston, etc may be slow, but the Rt on companies, anything inside the beltway, Merrifield, Tyson's etc, are quite busy. Try going to one of their stations and telling them they don't do anything all day.

What did the Navy SEALs who cornered Osama bin Laden get for pulling off such a risky mission? Their weekly paychecks.

The estimated salary for a Navy SEAL -- with over a dozen years of experience and an E-7 pay grade -- is about $54,000, according to an estimate based on data from the Department of Defense.

However, all military personnel are eligible to receive higher pay -- closer to six figures -- with additional skills, which many of the members of the team that captured bin Laden likely had.

"Each of these operations is different, but we get the same amount of pay, so it's fair," said John Scorza, MC2, under the Naval Special Warfare Command.

The base salary level is comparable to the average annual salary for teachers in the U.S., which was $55,350 for the 2009-2010 school year, according to the Digest of Education Statistics.

"Also note that military personnel may have more extensive benefits and on-base housing," said Lori Taylor, a professor at the Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University. "But they work year 'round while teachers get 2 to 3 months off in the summer."

Though Navy SEALs are usually more experienced service members, the typical graduate of SEAL qualification training is 19 to 23 years old, said Lt. Cmdr. Fred Kuebler of U.S. Special Operations Command in Tampa, Fla.

Being friends with your coworkers isn't cause the have less compensation, shit head. Don't discount the daily training, maintenance, and other public functions (school trips, station upkeep etc).


If you don't like the free food then how about you sit outside the forestation and stop the citizens who bring it? Tell them your opinions. No firefighter solicits this.

It appears "boredom" is to blame for many firefighter arsonists.....

hmmmmmmm.........


Volunteer firefighter arrested on arson charges

Tuesday, May 3, 2011

The son of a former Waldwick fire chief was arrested May 1 for allegedly setting fire to an abandoned house in Upper Saddle River, which he then reported to authorities and helped extinguish, authorities said.


Volunteers from Allendale, Ramsey, Upper Saddle River and Mahwah responded to a fire that police say caused significant damage to an abandoned house in Upper Saddle River. Police said Brian Alvarez, 23, of Ramsey, is being charged with aggravated arson and burglary for allegedly setting fire to an abandoned single family residence, which is located in and owned by Upper Saddle River.

Alvarez is the son of Waldwick residents Cathy and former Waldwick Volunteer Fire Department Chief David "Ziggy" Alvarez Sr. A woman who answered the phone at their residence Tuesday, May 3, said she had no comment.

Alvarez is an employee of the Haworth Department of Public Works and is a volunteer firefighter in Waldwick, Allendale and Haworth, police said.

A clerk at Haworth Borough Hall said Alvarez had been with the DPW for two or three years and that the governing body was expected to discuss his employment at a council meeting May 4.


Alvarez Alvarez appears to have an unlisted number and could not be reached.

According to the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, Alvarez called the Allendale Police Department at 4:28 a.m. May 1 to report a structure fire on East Crescent Avenue, which he said was either in Allendale or Ramsey. The house, at 168 East Crescent Ave., is in Upper Saddle River.

Police said Alvarez claimed he had been driving down East Crescent Avenue when he noticed the fire and, as a member of the Allendale Volunteer Fire Department, he immediately responded to the firehouse after reporting the blaze and was among the first on the scene to put it out.

Firefighters from Ramsey, Upper Saddle River and Mahwah also responded. Police said the fire caused a significant amount of damage to the house and one of the firefighters was treated at the scene for a minor knee injury.

Police said area fire departments had used the abandon house to conduct drills and an investigation concluded that Alvarez had participated in those drills and knew the house was abandoned.

Waldwick Fire Chief Ken Warr said that the Waldwick Fire Department had not held drills at the house.

Police said the fire was immediately deemed suspicious because it occurred in an abandoned structure without working utilities. The Bergen County Arson Squad determined that the fire was intentionally set in multiple areas in the rear of the house, both inside and outside, authorities said.

Police are also investigating other occasions when Alvarez has reported a fire; they say he has called in vehicle and brush fires in several other towns.

Alvarez was charged with aggravated arson, a second degree crime; arson, a third degree crime; and burglary, a third degree crime. He is being held at the Bergen County Jail on $75,000 bail with no 10 percent option. He is expected to appear in Upper Saddle River Municipal Court for arraignment at 5:30 p.m. May 10.

Maureen Parenta, a spokeswoman for the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, did not return several calls May 3. It could not be determined whether Alvarez has retained an attorney.

Warr said Tuesday, May 3, that Alvarez will be suspended from the department until the conclusion of the investigation.

"They are a very nice, religious and spiritual family," Waldwick Mayor Russell Litchult said in an interview May 3. "I was surprised. Sometimes kids do stupid things and I guess this is one of them."

Several members of the Waldwick Volunteer Fire Department who were asked for reaction declined to comment and did not want to be named.

E-mail: weinberger@northjersey.com

The son of a former Waldwick fire chief was arrested May 1 for allegedly setting fire to an abandoned house in Upper Saddle River, which he then reported to authorities and helped extinguish, authorities said.

Police said Brian Alvarez, 23, of Ramsey, is being charged with aggravated arson and burglary for allegedly setting fire to an abandoned single family residence, which is located in and owned by Upper Saddle River.

Alvarez is the son of Waldwick residents Cathy and former Waldwick Volunteer Fire Department Chief David "Ziggy" Alvarez Sr. A woman who answered the phone at their residence Tuesday, May 3, said she had no comment.

Alvarez is an employee of the Haworth Department of Public Works and is a volunteer firefighter in Waldwick, Allendale and Haworth, police said.

A clerk at Haworth Borough Hall said Alvarez had been with the DPW for two or three years and that the governing body was expected to discuss his employment at a council meeting May 4.

Alvarez appears to have an unlisted number and could not be reached.

According to the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, Alvarez called the Allendale Police Department at 4:28 a.m. May 1 to report a structure fire on East Crescent Avenue, which he said was either in Allendale or Ramsey. The house, at 168 East Crescent Ave., is in Upper Saddle River.

Police said Alvarez claimed he had been driving down East Crescent Avenue when he noticed the fire and, as a member of the Allendale Volunteer Fire Department, he immediately responded to the firehouse after reporting the blaze and was among the first on the scene to put it out.

Firefighters from Ramsey, Upper Saddle River and Mahwah also responded. Police said the fire caused a significant amount of damage to the house and one of the firefighters was treated at the scene for a minor knee injury.

Police said area fire departments had used the abandon house to conduct drills and an investigation concluded that Alvarez had participated in those drills and knew the house was abandoned.

Waldwick Fire Chief Ken Warr said that the Waldwick Fire Department had not held drills at the house.

Police said the fire was immediately deemed suspicious because it occurred in an abandoned structure without working utilities. The Bergen County Arson Squad determined that the fire was intentionally set in multiple areas in the rear of the house, both inside and outside, authorities said.

Police are also investigating other occasions when Alvarez has reported a fire; they say he has called in vehicle and brush fires in several other towns.

Alvarez was charged with aggravated arson, a second degree crime; arson, a third degree crime; and burglary, a third degree crime. He is being held at the Bergen County Jail on $75,000 bail with no 10 percent option. He is expected to appear in Upper Saddle River Municipal Court for arraignment at 5:30 p.m. May 10.

Maureen Parenta, a spokeswoman for the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, did not return several calls May 3. It could not be determined whether Alvarez has retained an attorney.

Warr said Tuesday, May 3, that Alvarez will be suspended from the department until the conclusion of the investigation.

"They are a very nice, religious and spiritual family," Waldwick Mayor Russell Litchult said in an interview May 3. "I was surprised. Sometimes kids do stupid things and I guess this is one of them."

Several members of the Waldwick Volunteer Fire Department who were asked for reaction declined to comment and did not want to be named.

How doesthat babble relate to Fairfax? Has a Fairfax firefighter EVER been charged with arson?

@ firefighters as arsonists

WTF is the point?

Get the volunteer coordinator to fix it and increase number of volunteers. Hold him under the fire to it. Save money or cut him. Make the coordinators firefighters too if they could pass test.

You didn't factor in the housing and chow hall food that is free. Im not nor will ever knock the military, but they also dont pay for benefits...

just in case you havent noticed
Attachments:

volunteersolution,

So what do you do sir? Other than sit at home an play on this site. Did a firefighter make you mad? Are you a volunteer firefighter that want to be a paid figherfighter but could not make the cut?

You need people willing to volunteer in order for a volunteer initiative to work. If that were possible, we'd be a combination department such as P-William, Loudon, Stafford, etc. In case you haven't noticed, it's a little expensive to live in Fairfax, and people need to work, so they can't spend time volunteering for free when they need to pay the bills, and probably need to hold a part time job rather than volunteer. the Local would never allow that, either. We have our jobs because volunteers aren't available, nor are they reliable to consistently staff their pieces.

As far as that arson post, that was a volunteer FF. I don't know of any instances of career FF's setting fires. Volunteer "hiring" standards can be less than that of paid FF's in many cases. You can get all kinds of whackers and nut jobs depending on where you work. To get hired as career we need to pass an entrance exam, CPAT, full medical, psych test and eval by a psychiatrist, and a polygraph (or two) given by a detective. We also need to pass an annual timed work performance test where we gear up, go on air, and complete a series of physically demanding tasks. If you fail, you're taken out of the field. Volunteers are not held to the same standard in Fairfax. It's part of the reason for all those Line Of Duty Deaths due to cardiac causes in volunteers. Also, they participate in hardly any of the training that is mandatory for career personnel. It's hard to tell someone who volunteers every other week, or once a month if you're lucky to show up for training uncompensated.

When I'm at the station, I'm "working," whether or not we're on a call. If I'm not in my own bed at home, with no responsibility to respond to a tone, then I'm working, and that needs to be compensated for. The employer can't have it both ways with the paid on call system. If you want coverage, you have to compensate for it.

And yes, this is very much a troll thread. I haven't seen anyone give any intelligent, credible counterpoints to my posts. Just the same, I don't want citizens getting misinformation about my department and what we do from people with no life and nothing better to do.

Fairfax County FRD EMS Tech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You need people willing to volunteer in order for
> a volunteer initiative to work. If that were
> possible, we'd be a combination department such as
> P-William, Loudon, Stafford, etc. In case you
> haven't noticed, it's a little expensive to live
> in Fairfax, and people need to work, so they can't
> spend time volunteering for free when they need to
> pay the bills, and probably need to hold a part
> time job rather than volunteer. the Local would
> never allow that, either. We have our jobs because
> volunteers aren't available, nor are they reliable
> to consistently staff their pieces.
>
> As far as that arson post, that was a volunteer
> FF. I don't know of any instances of career FF's
> setting fires. Volunteer "hiring" standards can be
> less than that of paid FF's in many cases. You can
> get all kinds of whackers and nut jobs depending
> on where you work. To get hired as career we need
> to pass an entrance exam, CPAT, full medical,
> psych test and eval by a psychiatrist, and a
> polygraph (or two) given by a detective. We also
> need to pass an annual timed work performance test
> where we gear up, go on air, and complete a series
> of physically demanding tasks. If you fail, you're
> taken out of the field. Volunteers are not held to
> the same standard in Fairfax. It's part of the
> reason for all those Line Of Duty Deaths due to
> cardiac causes in volunteers. Also, they
> participate in hardly any of the training that is
> mandatory for career personnel. It's hard to tell
> someone who volunteers every other week, or once a
> month if you're lucky to show up for training
> uncompensated.
>
> When I'm at the station, I'm "working," whether or
> not we're on a call. If I'm not in my own bed at
> home, with no responsibility to respond to a tone,
> then I'm working, and that needs to be compensated
> for. The employer can't have it both ways with the
> paid on call system. If you want coverage, you
> have to compensate for it.
>
> And yes, this is very much a troll thread. I
> haven't seen anyone give any intelligent, credible
> counterpoints to my posts. Just the same, I don't
> want citizens getting misinformation about my
> department and what we do from people with no life
> and nothing better to do.


Some of us actually get where you are coming from and appreciate what you do. Don't let the losers with stupid remarks fool you into thinking all of us agree. I just got tired of the idiotic ranting and stopped reading the thread.

I hope I never need to call for your help again, but when I have in the past FX has been totally awesome in their response. It's part of why I still live in this expensive place.

I get where you are too. Just trying to think of ways to better help the county and do the most good for the most people. I take it my idea is no good.

You take it correctly.

It's impossibly easy to say "just have people do it for free!!"


Try to implement that in any job, in any industry, at any time.


Unless of course it's YOUR house on fire, or YOUR fatass having the heart attack, or YOUR female-Chinese ass stuck in a car accident. THEN, maybe you'd work for free.

Pr. George's Firefighter Arrested in Arson Plot


By Aaron C. Davis
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 14, 2008; 3:15 PM

The Prince George's County fire department arrested one of its own last night, alleging that a veteran county firefighter stopped on his way to work and ignited a blaze two weeks ago that he and others were soon called out to fight.

County fire investigators say Michael D. Murphy, 42, of the 400 block of Cross Creek Dr. in Huntingtown, stopped at a Langley Park area Asian Carry Out on Nov. 1, walked behind the restaurant and lighted a stack of boxes and newspapers. He then drove to the county's Chillum-Adelphi Fire/EMS Station, where the call came in minutes later to respond to the blaze, which was extinguished before the building was destroyed, fire officials said.

Murphy was caught on the restaurant's security camera, said Mark Brady, a spokesman for the department. He was charged last night with first-degree and second-degree arson, as well as malicious burning. All three are felonies, and Murphy is being held in the county's jail on $150,000 bond.

A message left at Murphy's home was not immediately returned.

"He was caught in the act, almost, on a store security camera

Can you make more CERT volunteer firefighters? Some already have gone on to do that. That is a good pool to recruit from. CERT and volunteer firefighters fall under the same coordinator at the fire department.

To expand. Not saying to do away with paid people. Just trying to expand the fire force even more.

"make" a "volunteer" be a firefighter? Those who want to, do. Those who don't, won't. While the spirit of volunteerism is healthy in the CERTS, it's not likely that you can force them into the firefighting ranks.


Defeats the purpose of volunteering, don't it?

Are there many cases of doctors trying to kill people so that they can then revive them?

It is crazy the number of firefighters who are arsonists.

Where do they find the time if they are so busy all day???

Volunteeri I think you got that wrong. CERT might be good to get them to be VOLUNTEER firefighters. Not force them. CERT volunteers might not know their potential. I think one of the instructors is going to EMS school as we speak.

EMS school is only one component of what it takes to be a functional firefighter in this county. Don't forget the hazmat, suppression, fire behavior, emergency driving, fire tactics, building construction/destruction, vehicle rescue, etc etc etc.

You people have no idea what it takes to supply a county this large in terms of land and population with an effective fire department.

Your point is well taken. Send this thread to your public affairs officers and tell them that the general public can use some education. The public knows the great things you guys and women do to put out a fire. That is no question. Everyone knows and respects that. It is really what it takes that seems the world underestimates. You should do a video. A day or week or month in the life. Another that shows all the training you need and renewals. Keep up the good work. What seems like some trolls is not, just clueless folks you bump into at Giant.

ok, I'm officially confused cause we already have volunteers in Ffx Co............

http://www.fcvfra.org/

I dont think it should be one way or the other - and I pray to God that there is no animosity between Volunteers and paid figherfighters - it should all be one big happy, y'know?

For the most part it is. However you always have bad apples on both sides of the fence. When the rubber meats the road, everyone usually plays along nicely. However, if it were my house on fire, I'd want the paid professionals who train more regularly, and are held to stricter standards of work and conduct.

can anybody here actually prove that the volunteers dont train as much, or arent held to the same standards as the paid firefighters

Cause I dont necessarily believe that's the case - that Fairfax wouldnt hold ALL firefighters to the same level, regardless of status - so does anybody have any actual proof on that?

The proof exists in the records at the Massey building. You can FOIA all the training records, rules and regulations, man hours and everything. The fact is that the career people DO train more often and regularly. But like I said, all those records are publically available at request.

Let's apply some logic:
The typical day of work in the core station includes at least one hour of physical training, at least two hours of drills, training, maintenance, preplanning and other business necessary to operate. This is EVERY day.

The volunteers are great. They provide a good service and they're very well intentioned. Thy DO put in the same hours, albeit on weekends over the course of many more months than a career recruit would on a Monday through Friday schedule, to achieve the same basic/MINIMUM certificTions and training. However, beyond that only a very few volunteers ride regularly enough to maintain and grow their Knowledge and skill base.

Not to mention, the career folks practice, look back and learn from live emergencies they run on a day to day basis.

Imagine a doctor who went to medical school, graduated 10 years ago, and has seen about 50 patients since, because he does it barely part time. Now imagine another doctor who went trough the same program 3 years ago, who has worked since the day after he graduated, seeing over 1,000 patients.
Who would you want to be your doctor?

And the doctor as a volunteer is not required to do bingo.