ROFLMFAOIMHO

I was a FF/Medic in Fx Co 15 yr ago with 10 yr of duty (and LOTS of it). The career/vol medics were equally well trained and the performance seemed even as well - You either know the job or you don't. Same with the firefighters - its not rocket science. 99% of the bitching is due to personal conflicts and often originating with union types pushing their bullshit agenda. I know similarly trained personnel in New England making $35k and happy for it. The salaries, benes, OT and other perks FxCo gives out is ridiculous - the work can be and would be done for half the cost if it were not for the politics. The county ought to consider a pilot program for outsourcing fire/ems to a private contractor.

Optimally, the best system is a Volunteer run organization with career administrators and contracted personnel supplementing volunteer professionals. Keeps it local, thrifty and community centered and FREE from union/political scamming. This model has succeeded in the past and does still today - Tho Fx would be a tough hybrid to crack

I may have been wrong to say I was wrong. Mark agreed with me. And he worked there. So there. Try the model.

Fire Department Volunteer Coordinator step up and propose something. Save taxpayers millions or who knows what jobs will be on the line next. Bring back the former volunteer coordinator who still volunteers with the fire department. I dont know his name, but he would be great to fill volunteer coordinators office with volunteers.

Posted by: Foia ()
Date: May 06, 2011 10:40AM

The proof exists in the records at the Massey building. You can FOIA all the training records, rules and regulations, man hours and everything. The fact is that the career people DO train more often and regularly. But like I said, all those records are publically available at request.

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you know, if places like Burke or Fairfax had more houses burnt to the ground than Station or Oakton, then yeah - I'd believe this "Volunteers suck compared to Employees" thesis.

But that just doesn't seem to be true.


And to cop out, tell me to go to the Massey building and look thru files, etc. - well that's kinda a lame way to try to prove yr case.

In a county as liability conscious as Fairfax, I'd find it hard to believe they would allow some fire companies to be (as you theorize) less professional or be less able to do the job as other companies.

So the outrage is that they do not give volunteer firefighters more training? I agree with Gordon. At the end of the day, the fire is out or the hurt or sick person is brought to the hospital. Thank you to both paid and volunteers. Same case holds up for the police. Thank you to them also. More proof is with EMS and FIRE. They are together. Some places they are separate. Here they are together and proves how well they do.

@volunteersolution, the reason that volunteers receive less training is that they're simply around less. Career personnel have a mandatory monthly online training matrix to follow. For example, it can be something like powerpoints on single family dwelling engine ops, a close call or Line Of Duty Death, Metro Rail Ops, and an EMS drill. In addition, we'll have mandatory company ops, such as deploying certain hose lines, or how to set up a stokes basket from a tower ladder. There are also milti company drills (MUD Drills for short), where several units from a Battalion go out of service for 4-8 hours and maybe burn a house, do the flashover simulator at the academy, practice RIT procedures (FF rescue), foam ops, etc. In addition to that, we have three OARS sessions - Operational Academy Rotations. These include Blood Borne Pathogens, more company ops, inservices on new equipment, etc. We also do walkthroughs of neighborhoods, bisiness parks, high rises, etc. on duty. Medics do three eight hour days every year at our Tyson's facility for EMS education/training by our Pa's, NP's, BSN's, and EMS LT's. Medics also do in station drills and monthly EMS education articles for credit.

The volunteers get together once in a while to do some training, and their member participation is hit or miss. They have access to the same training matrix we do, and are welcome to our drills. They're simply not putting their units inservice often enough to be available for the same amount of training that the 24/7 career staff do. Our volunteer structure is not like that of PG county, where they have live ins. It is also not like Stafford, Loudon, or Prince William, where they have enough members that they can fully staff their houses at night most of the time, with the career personnel only needing to be staffed in the daytime.

Most of our volunteer engines go inservice on the weekends only. We rarely see them during the week. Our engines are ALS (paramedic), theirs are usually not. The ambulances are staffed a little more often, but are not medic staffed, only basic EMT for the most part. As such, it's necessary for the county to staff each house 24/7 with fully staffed career units. If it were possible to get adequate volunteer participation, we would have a system similar to Stafford, Loudon, etc.

If we did have a more plentiful volunteer presence, I'd prefer that they upstaff our units first, rather than put extra units in service. Rural areas may have only two FF's on each apparatus, three if they're lucky. Big departments like FDNY have 5 or 6 on the truck, and 4-5 on the engine. We're in the middle with 3 on the truck and four on the engine. The public typically doesn't realize the amount of manpower that's needed on a structure fire. We have around 30 people that are on the first alarm. If each unit only has three people or so, fireground tasks progress much more slowly. Volunteers could help us achieve safe staffing levels, and also cut back on OT.

Relying more on volunteers than paid personnel isn't working too well for PG county. They use a single pull system due to lack of staffing. They leave their gear in the middle of the floor, and jump on one piece to do a call. The other apparatus remain at the station. When they get a large incident, they always call us and other counties as well to fil their stations since all of theirs are tied up.

The volunteers are not less professional than career personnel. They get the same initial training. It's the ongoing training and the relative lack of experience that may become a problem. If we're working ten (24 hour) days a month and the volunteers are working 2-4 12 hour shifts a month (if that in some cases), who's going to get more experience and be able to do more training? In some volunteer houses, there are members that only show for instillation dinners, the annual open house, and some occasional bingo, but that's about it. Houses like 414 (Burke) and 422 (Springfield) do get out more often than the rest. 421 (Fair Oaks) does okay as well.

I don't see it as logistically possible to get enough of a volunteer population, that can do the same training and put in a sufficient amount of work hours to be comparable to the career staff, while being responsible for coverage for 300 some odd square miles ans one million residents, along with all the transient traffic. In my experience, career departments expand their membership because the volunteer participation has declined for some time. I've never seen it go in the other direction. Again, a dept usually starts as 100% volunteer, theyget some coverage issues so they offer paid on call to get better particpation, then they have to hire a small core career staff, maybe for certain stations to upstaff a few spots, then it's FT paid crews in the daytime for a few stations, then it's FT paid for all of them, then a few have to go to 24/7 career coverage (P-William), and then it's 24/7 career in every station (here) with a small volunteer contingent. The increased career presence comes about as a metter of necessity. Volunteer Chiefs can be fiercely territorial, and don't generally like giving up their control to career staff if it isn't forced upon them.

LOL
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Whyare you guys so FAT if you are working out so much?

I don't think there is any way I could be a firefighter. After the first auto accident call with an injured or dead child I'd be done.

Hey Idoubtit. They are not firefighters in that office. The coordinator just liasions not fights fires.

Lifeguarding in OC is totally lucrative; some make over $200k

May 10th, 2011, 5:32 pm · 6 Comments · posted by Brian Calle

When thinking about career options with high salaries, lifeguarding is probably not one of the first jobs to come to mind. But it apparently should. In one of Orange County’s most desirable beach destinations, Newport Beach, lifeguards are compensated all too well; especially compared with the county annual median household income of $71,735.

It might be time for a career change.

According to a city report on lifeguard pay for the calendar year 2010, of the 14 full-time lifeguards, 13 collected more than $120,000 in total compensation; one lifeguard collected $98,160.65. More than half the lifeguards collected more than $150,000 for 2010 with the two highest-paid collecting $211,451 and $203,481 in total compensation respectively. Even excluding benefits like health care and pension, more than half the lifeguards receive a total salary, including overtime pay, exceeding $100,000. And they also receive an annual allowance of $400 for “Sun Protection.” Many work four days a week, 10 hours a day.

Lifeguarding in Newport Beach is a pretty good gig, if you can get it.

There is no denying that lifeguards protect swimmers and play a vital safety role in protecting numerous beachgoers every year. In 2010, the total number of rescues by Newport Beach lifeguards was 2,190. Even so, these salaries seem too generous, and the compensation levels don’t appear fiscally sane.

Currently, Newport Beach has 13 full-time active lifeguards and hires about 210 seasonal and part-time “tower” guards, Newport Beach City Manager David Kiff told us. Lifeguards are organized as part of the fire department. The Lifeguard Management Association represents the 13 full-time, salaried employees in collective bargaining with the city whereas the Association of Newport Beach Ocean Lifeguards represents the part-time, seasonal lifeguards.

In a phone conversation, Brent Jacobsen, president of the Lifeguard Management Association, defended the lifeguard pay in Newport Beach: “We have negotiated very fair and very reasonable salaries in conjunction with comparable positions and other cities up and down the coast.” “Lifeguard salaries here are well within the norm of other city employees.” And therein is the problem: Local public worker pay has become all too generous and out of line with private sector equivalents.

On face, the compensation packages for these guards are staggering. But take into consideration the retirement benefits being paid to currently retired lifeguards and lifeguards who will retire at these pay levels in the future and the problem is further compounded. Lifeguards are able to retire with 90 percent of their salary, after only 30 years of work at as early as the age of 50.

A YouTube video created by Americans for Prosperity-California, an education advocacy organization concerned with limited government, lower taxation, and free-market principles, outlined how in Newport Beach a “recently retired lifeguard, age 51, receives a government retirement of over $108,000 per year for the rest of his life.” The video also notes that “He will make well over $3 million in retirement if he lives to age 80!”

The Newport Beach City Council – as well as other beach cities – ought to take a hard look at reforming the pay scale and compensation for lifeguards as well as the way in which the department is organized. This is a reasonable starting point for applying some fiscal sanity to public employee compensation.

yeah, union - Newport Beach lifeguards have a LOT to do with Fairfax County.........

for the record, a year-around beach lifeguard working at a Worldwide vacation hotspot prolly have to be top-notch, not Walmart grade as you'd prefer. Since just one drowning could have MILLIONS of dollars impact on their tourism industry.

Not a sermon, just a thought

LoLz

For $200,000, you could hire three guards and cover the same times as much area and give the taxpayers a pbargain. At a certain point, people are only worth so much. How much can a person really bring to a job?

Unless they were fighter pilots or nucelar engineers, I just don't see the need to pay a lifeguard that much. There should be a cap. Sorry, Gordon, you are really off on this one.

When one is informed of a position that makes a certain amount, there just shouldn't be eyebrows going up. The process should be a little more open and accountable. I don't blame the people getting those salaries, I blame the Administrators/Supervisors who let them get out of hand.

Every politicians doesn't want to look like they are against Emergency Services or Teachers. The Unions pay a lot of money that it remains that way, too. The system seems to be broken in some areas but its a tough problem to fix. If it was easy, it would have been fixed already.

Seriously? How much work do you see fighter pilots doing anymore? When the fuck was there an air-to-air war with the need for an fighter pilot?

There really is no such thing as a pure fighter pilot any more. Every combatant "fighter" aircraft in the U.S. arsenal has significant air to ground capabilities.

The days of F14s and F15s as pure air superiority fighters are gone.

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"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"

They should advertise the volunteer coordinator positions and people like Gordon should apply. Serious that it would bring new vision to the program. CERT tried to have vision but leadership team the coordinator created fell to pieces. Know one wants to be pushed to man a booth. That is not why they take CERT. Good program. No follow through.

@Bazilly - you have no idea what you are talking about - 3 ppl for NINE MILES, eh?

learn a little:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-adv-newport-lifeguards-20110424,0,4701442.story

I'm not saying that they shouldnt do what they need to do to trim their budget - I'm just saying that it's kinda stupid to "bargin-basement" the personnel that are your there to save lives. And to answer your question "How much can a person really bring to a job?", I'd wonder if you'd ask that when yr half a mile from shore and saltwater starts filling yr lungs?


@volunteer - you dont want me being a firefighter. I tend to run OUT of buildings that are in flames LoLz

Current Volunteer coordinator would to and should. They are coordinators not firefighters. YOu honetly would be good for it. Good people skills and care.

Im not going to go through all the Work to satisfy your curiosity on how much career vs volunteers train. You're the one who wants to know, it's your right to know, so go find out. It's not hard. It's not a cop out to refer you to the correct resource. It is a cop out to botch about not having someone do your leg work on FFU.

Today, there are multiple units out training, every one of them career staffed. Dozens and dozens of employees practicing. Where are the volunteers? O ya... Theyre at their jobs working, non fire department related. It's not complaining, or a knock against them; it's just fact.

volunteersolution Wrote:
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> Current Volunteer coordinator would to and should.
> They are coordinators not firefighters. YOu
> honetly would be good for it. Good people skills
> and care.


---------------------------------

thank you :)

Now that is what I am talkin bout. Real people who can do the job.

I forgot to mention,that while we get a pension, and the DROP if we choose (the county stops paying into our pension fund at this point, as do we), there are a few important points to mention:

We still pay into social security, unlike some other organizations with defined benefit (pension) plans. We pay this for our entire working lives, just like you do. The joke's on us, though. When we reach the SS retirement age, we can start collecting our monthly benefit. But we never see that check, that expected bump in our income. What happens is that the county reduces our pension benefit dollar for dollar by what we would get from social security. So, we pay into the system for our entire working lives, but the county gets that benefit instead of us. A good number of us have worked in other places before coming to the county, and were paying into SS and such beforehand. All of that which was taxed goes towards that benefit which the county takes in exchange for our pension.

Also, we do have deferred comp, similar to a 401k, but with no contributions. This is understandable, since we get a pension benefit. Workers who don't get a pension will ususlly have a 401k, and it will typically have an employer match. The county doesn't do this, since it instead contributes to the pesion.

So, it may seem like we have it too good with a pension and the DROP. I'll say that a guaranteed pension is more desireable than a 401k type retirement alone, since many aren't able to contribute enough to do well in retirement. The DROP doesn't cost the county any more than it would if we were to simply work for those three years w/o a DROP, for the reasons I've outlined earlier in the thread. The benefits are great, but not as lavish as it would seem when compared to a 40k style w/ match, having us work 40 hour weeks instead of 56 and paying more in hiring, extra personnel, extra pensions, etc. We'll never see a return on our SS/FICA contributions since the county gets it instead.

Volunteers - Why is it acceptable to have to depend on volunteer firefighters and volunteer EMT/paramedics? Why not volunteer police officers? Volunteer sanitation? Volunteer teachers? Volunteer doctors and nurses? Volunteers are definitely useful and I appreciate what they do, but why is it acceptable to demand that they replace paid professionals? Why fire and EMS and not police, nurses, doctors, VDOT employees, etc? True, there used to be volunteer police. They were known as a posse back in the day in the midwest and such. Doctors and nurses volunteer for natural disasters sometimes, and do humanitarian work in other countries. Some people choose to deposit their garbage at the dump.I don't see people chipping in for snow plows, or building their own roads; the state handles that. The reason professional police, nurses, doctors, sanitation workers, and so on are the norm is because there came a time that the volunteer commitment fell way behind the needs of the community. Fire and EMS is no different.

I think I saw him today.

Fairfaxunderground rules: Lilliputions, not ok. Midgettville ok. I got it now.
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I think I saw him today

Fairfaxunderground rules: Lilliputions, not ok. Midgettville ok. I got it now.

Radiophile Wrote:
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> I think I saw him today


Yeah, we heard you the first time. Dumbass.

How is the pupusa truck business today?

If that was today, then that he was a she (Edith E.), that's an on duty Battalion Chief's vehicle not a take home car, and that might be an Alexandria city box, not Loudon county where the Chief in question was seen.

Almost 9,000 CalPERS retirees get $100,000 a year
By Phillip Reese


Sacramento Bee

Posted: 06/01/2011 10:30:35 AM PDT



The $100,000 pension club is growing fast.

Almost 9,000 retirees in the California Public Employees' Retirement System receive at least $100,000 in annual benefits, more than quadruple the number getting that much during 2005, according to a Sacramento Bee review of CalPERS data.

Collectively, these pensioners will receive about $1.1 billion in benefits this year -- roughly triple the general fund budget of the Sacramento City Unified School District.

Such payouts are a hot topic as leaders float competing pension reform plans at the state Capitol. Those who want to curtail big pensions say they are a root cause of huge unfunded liabilities -- and the growing pension bill presented each year to taxpayers. Others say large pensions are straw men brandished as a tool to cut the modest benefits of most government workers.

"The outliers are driving the discussion," said Steve Maviglio, a spokesman for Californians for Retirement Security, a union consortium. "It's frustrating."

The rapid growth in the number of $100,000 pensions is largely a consequence of enhanced retirement benefits approved by local and state governments during the last decade. Tens of thousands of public safety workers, for instance, can retire at age 50 and get most of their annual salary for life.

Because the enhanced benefits are only a decade old, there's a snowball effect: More six-figure pensioners are entering the system than leaving it.


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Government salaries also rose quickly during the last decade, pushing benefits higher. The average pay of active CalPERS members jumped 20 percent from 2004 to 2009, much faster than the inflation rate, CalPERS figures show.

"That's the other issue: Some folks are being paid disproportionately high salaries," said Brad Barber, a finance professor and pension expert at UC Davis.

Six-figure pensions -- and pensions of all amounts -- could become more common as a tide of workers reaches retirement age. "(It's) certainly linked to the baby boomers retiring," said CalPERS spokesman Brad Pacheco.

Pensions are typically paid using investment returns, employee contributions and taxpayer money. State employees contribute to their pensions, but some local government employees don't.

Six-figure pensions are not bankrupting the system, or eating up most benefits. They constitute about 2 percent of all CalPERS beneficiaries and about 8 percent of benefit payments. The average annual pension for all who retired last year is $38,000; for those who retired with at least 25 years of service, it's about $61,000.

Additionally, investment losses during the recession affected CalPERS's unfunded liabilities more than the rise in $100,000 pensions, actuarial reports show.

But the public and its elected leaders need to flag big pension payouts, Barber said, especially if the growth of such payouts continues at a rapid pace. "I think it does make sense as we move forward to think about capping benefits for the highest wage earners," he said.

Republicans negotiating with Gov. Jerry Brown have demanded that pension reform be part of any deal to approve his plan to ask voters for state tax extensions. In April, Brown released pension changes he would support, but more substantive changes, including a pension cap, were listed as "under development." Failing such a deal, reform advocates could seek a ballot initiative to instill a cap and other reforms.

About 70 percent of Californians support capping pensions, according to a recent University of Southern California/Los Angeles Times poll.

Maviglio said government workers and unions, tired of hearing about huge payouts, are willing to talk about eliminating abuse in the system. They're agreeable to reforms that would target so-called "pension spiking," which involves inflating final salaries to earn big lifetime benefits.

"There's enormous frustration among the rank and file that the few are benefiting greatly," Maviglio said. "Their benefits might impact everyone else."

But many six-figure pensioners accrued their benefits honestly, and deserve them, including police officers and firefighters, Maviglio said. "People who put their lives on the line every day deserve a secure retirement," he said.

That caveat could matter greatly. A big chunk of $100,000 pensioners are former public safety workers -- due to their relatively high salaries and comparatively generous pension packages.

Cops and firefighters are such a large presence on the $100,000 pension list that they skew it in a couple of little-known ways.

For instance, almost two-thirds of six-figure CalPERS pensioners were employed by local governments, not the state -- partially a reflection that many cops and firefighters work for cities or counties.

Also, 85 percent of the six-figure pensioners in the CalPERS system are men, The Bee's review found. That's because most firefighters, cops and high-level government managers are male.

The numbers reflect the need for governments to encourage and recruit more women into management and public safety professions, said Patty Bellasalma, president of the California Chapter of the National Organization for Women. Higher salaries for some professions are also warranted, she said.

The average pay for California teachers last year was $68,000; the average pay for correctional officers, including overtime, was $74,500, state data show.

"Prison guards with a high school diploma make more than teachers with a college (diploma) or a master's degree," she said. "This is fundamentally wrong in a gender sense and in a successful society sense."

Disparities aside, a number of factors such as salary growth and hiring patterns will determine whether six-figure pensions continue to grow rapidly. "When this may plateau is difficult to assess," Pacheco said.

But the clearest indication that six-figure pensions will spike again is the sheer number of highly paid workers nearing retirement age.

About 18,000 local public safety and California Highway Patrol officers in the Cal-PERS system were 45 or older in 2009, the latest state figures show. Most can retire at age 50 and get 3 percent of their highest pay for every year they worked, usually up to 90 percent.

Their average pay: $108,000.

The cost of living is much higher in coastal California than it is in Northern Virginia, generally speaking. Their salaries are going to be higher, and so will their pensions. They're also a collective bargaining state, unlike us. Here in Fairfax, if the fire department budget was unrealistically high, we would see layoffs reduction in service, and possibly salary reductions as well. We almost had layoffs in 2009, but the BOS and the County Executive worked to avoid that.

That is right on the money. No layoffs. Is that right? Some layoffs are good like deadwood. Cut volunteer coordinators. Let the volunteers manage it or the station captains.

@gotdatright - seems there needs to be co-ordination between paid and vol firefighters - doesnt sound like 'deadwood' to me.

"Prison guards with a high school diploma make more than teachers with a college (diploma) or a master's degree," she said. "This is fundamentally wrong in a gender sense and in a successful society sense."

Another woman crying foul because "men" are getting paid more than her. She's using stereotypes to make her case against genderism (another stereotype). What a fucking cunt.

WOMEN are prison guards too. And MEN are teachers (with masters/phd's) too.

If I saw this cunt walking down the street I'd rape her and tie her to the kitchen sink for all eternity.

The reason Ffx FRD has so few volunteers is.because the paid staff chases them out of the county. The first thing I hear when I identify as a Batt 4 volly to someone from Loudoun or Stafford OS , "Run a lot of Bingo, then?" I have seen a lot of good works done by the paid staff, but I've seen a lot of questionable behavior, and have been addressed by individuals of significant rank as "Who the fuck are you?" while I was in uniform at the station I work Bingo to pay the mortgage on. Whining about the absence of volunteers as a justification for paid FF/EMT-P jobs doesn't work, since the system in place is inherently hostile to volunteers, ESPECIALLY recruits and rookies who don't have access to all that fancy training and preceptorship described above.

Amen Wrote:
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> "Prison guards with a high school diploma make
> more than teachers with a college (diploma) or a
> master's degree," she said. "This is fundamentally
> wrong in a gender sense and in a successful
> society sense."
>
> Another woman crying foul because "men" are
> getting paid more than her. She's using
> stereotypes to make her case against genderism
> (another stereotype). What a fucking cunt.
>
> WOMEN are prison guards too. And MEN are teachers
> (with masters/phd's) too.
>
> If I saw this cunt walking down the street I'd
> rape her and tie her to the kitchen sink for all
> eternity.

---------------------------------------------------

wow..........................what an asshole.

Also, police volunteers = Fairfax PD Auxiliaries. You've probably trained with these individuals at least once.

Gordon,
You don't find it irritating that these "experts" conveniently apply a double standard for their own special interests?

The only thing the cop volunteers are for is to manage some traffic at events. Nothing more.

When was the last time a volunteer cop ever made an arrest or citation in this county? Do they even have enforcement capacity? They may as well be a DOT service.

FRD Volunteers can (yet rarely) be functional units that provide emergency responses for EMS, fire, and rescue incidents.

@DEER - yeah, they always do :(

@Police Vol - you are nuts if you think that's all they do

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/reports/reports2007/120607aporecruitment.htm

Gordon you are right but why cant captain do that not deadwood extra people. Could save county easy $200K by the time you are done with salaries, benefits, try to look cool volunteer liason fire jackets. How much you think they cost.

Ah.. love reading the logic of some of the career firefighters on this thread. As a vol I have close to 1000 hours of Riding/Training time this year. I work a fulltime job and completed medic school - unpaid. I ride weeknights - THEN go into work the next day while you sleep. I ride/train weekends while you are probably on your 4 day. Man would I love to work 10 days a month.

Dont get me wrong - we have some incredible career firefighers/medics in the county. But we also have utter crap. Yes... same for the volunteers. I have been all over the country on work related assignments - everyone knows about Fairfax. You cant just lump all the volunteers into the same category. I took the same promotional exams to get to my rank as you. The volunteer entry level firefighter goes through the same course as a career FF - albeit on nights/weekends outside of their normal work schedules! I bust my ass to ensure I always know what I am doing any time of day under any conditions to serve the citizens of Fairfax County (and mutual aide runs) and I dont get paid for it.

Hey asshat,

Do you want a fucking medal for all the work you do?

Shut your fucking trap.

Volunteers rarely run calls, the majority of the time you guys come to the station just to hang out while the career staff runs the calls. Granted it's not all the time, but it is the majority. And if you want to talk about horrible how about this. There is a volunteer who lived, yes LIVED at the firehouse for well over a year. Yes he had a job and a vehicle but he decided he did not want to pay to live somewhere. How's that for a waste of your tax dollars?

Ok, I declare this thread dead. Now Shut TFU. the 300k Chief has retired. He was working two jobs. Lots of Firefighters work 2 jobs or they work lots of Overtime. So, in addition to the 56 hours a week we work, we work an additional 24-48 hours a week so we can afford to buy a house, raise our kids, and hopefully send them to college so they don't have to work as hard as we did. Not to mention put their lives on the line to save others. Thanks Chief BC401. Good luck.

so how much is one life saved?

I love how when times were good no one gave a rats ass to what public safety employees made....

but now that ya'lls dumbasses got laid off from your big time jobs where you sacraficed job security for pay you get your panties in a wad over what government employees make.....

It really does make me laugh out loud

A firefighter (by rank) does top out at around $80K - look at your own post, not a single firefighter listed every single one of your examples of well over the 80k mark is a Captain which required 5 upward promotions from firefighter to achieve and those you listed are also employees with over 25 years on the job

get your facts straight before posting - you only make yourself look stupid