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Hillbilly Heaven
Posted by: GMU Hokie ()
Date: March 02, 2010 06:37AM

The guy who owned Hillbilly Heaven was the father-in-law of Dan Ackroyd.

I don't know if he is still alive.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 02, 2010 07:56AM

DiamondD-REK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yo Sculler: you agree that the "91" picture is the
> same as the 1956JD (juvenile delinquent) picture?
> If that is the case, I was thinking the same
> thing about the amount of digging; hence, why we
> need to be 100% sure of the entrance site before
> any possible excavation.

I am 99.9999999999999999999999% sure that those are the same entrances. I apologize that I'm not computer-savy enough to paste the two images beside eachother, but if you take a look at the 2 sculptures above the entrance-way you'll see that they're identical. Also, the dimentions match up as well.

From what others have posted, what had once been the location of the entrance is now a large mound of dirt, which I'm thinking should be somewhat easy to spot in the middle of the woods.

So, taking into account that you've got the additional mound of dirt above ground, then the approximate 8-10 feet down to the TOP of the entrance, we're talking about ALOT of digging. Honestly, the time and manpower it would take to dig down to it is very possible, but I don't see how it's do-able without attracting some attention. Short of some serious ninja-style exacavation, someone's gonna catch wind of what you're doing out there. I plan on taking a look around and trying to get a solid location of the entrance, but I don't plan on doing any digging on my first trip out there.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 02, 2010 08:57AM

I remember that store at the corner of Rt 1 and Pohick Rd, it was gone before I ever knew about the crypts. When I visited in the early 90's we would park in the church parking lot and walk on the path around the graveyard behind the church and then just make our way through the woods to the site. We really didn't know if we had found the crypts or not since all the stories we had heard from our friends older sister formed a picture that did not include a large mound of dirt covering everything. I had forgotten all about the crypts for a couple of years and then one day remembered that we never figured out if what we found in the woods was the Remeum. I started searching for info and that's when I realized that we had indeeed found them but that we never found a way in. I would love to be able to get in there just once and take a look around, maybe that will happen some day soon.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: gps ()
Date: March 02, 2010 09:12AM

get the gps coordinates

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 02, 2010 01:17PM

from 1960:
Attachments:
remey.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 02, 2010 02:07PM

Holy shit, Dude! That picture's badass! Screw Historicaerials! Awesome find, thanks a ton!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 02, 2010 06:21PM

can anyone copy the historial aerial shot from '62 and, using paint/another program put to a big red circle on the entrance? 1psatmar6 That'd be great for me, since the varying accounts of the place on this thread leave me in a quandary.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 02, 2010 06:28PM

I didn't see that this thread had moved on to a THIRD(!) page so i hadn't seen sculler's reply or the new photo. With that being said...

1: Can anyone identify on the most recent picture where the entrance is?
2: I'll be there this saturday around 1 (sunny, 51 degrees!)
3: Remeum pronunciation... is that rem-e-um or ree-mi-um?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 02, 2010 07:00PM

I'm going to try to pick some points tonight and make a KMZ. I'll try to post that and then it will be referenced in Google Earth. That is if I can type quiet enough to not awake the baby...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: March 02, 2010 08:51PM

jgr007, great picture! Are there any other years available? Can you post any of the other pictures you mentioned?

I agree that the "91" picture is the same as the 1956JD picture. I marked where I think the entrance ("91") was with a 1 and where I think the brick monument is with a 2.
Attachments:
remey copy.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 02, 2010 09:14PM

Here's a screen grab in Google Earth. I'm trying to get a KMZ, but I'm not quite figuring it out yet.

I'll probably just post a zip file with instructions on how to use.

The pics I mentioned are not mine, but I think my friend may scan and send.
Attachments:
remey_ge.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 02, 2010 09:21PM

OK. Let's see if this works:

1. Download attached zip file.
2. Unzip on your computer somewhere.
3. Open doc.kml with Google Earth and hopefully you'll be able to explore

It's not registered quite right, but it should be close enough to get an idea of where it was plus pull coordinates.

I also want to tie down the plan images to the image from 60 just for fun to see what that looks like. Maybe tomorrow...
Attachments:
60warp.zip

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 03, 2010 07:09AM

Hip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jgr007, great picture! Are there any other years
> available? Can you post any of the other pictures
> you mentioned?
>
> I agree that the "91" picture is the same as the
> 1956JD picture. I marked where I think the
> entrance ("91") was with a 1 and where I think the
> brick monument is with a 2.

Hip, I agree with you 100% on #1 being the entrance, but I think that the brick monument (you mean the tower, right?) is located at the "G????R Memorial" at the exact opposite end of the complex in front of the bench, as I'm using the plans you posted as a reference.

If you look at jgr007's picture, you'll see that long shadow cast by the sun at the "G????R Memorial" (I can't read the handwriting on the plans), I believe that is the existing brick memorial/tower. Do you think that that is where #2 should be?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

"jr","JR/Gravis/RV",(who ever you are),

Please, son, do us all a favor and put down the tube of modeling glue and get back to your homework.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 03, 2010 10:37AM

Another from 1960 from an oblique angle.
Attachments:
remey2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 03, 2010 11:24AM

jgr007, Bravo, once again.

Thanks to your findings, I'm willing to bet money that the two structures at the left end of the complex that are positioned over the Crypt itself are the vents that Hip posted pictures of back on page 1 of this thread. Knowing now that there were only about 4 chambers, and also knowing where the entrance is according to the pictures, those should be vents that were directly over the Crypts.

(I might be a little behind in my epiphanies, and if I'm stating the obvious I apologize. But I'm more of a visual person.)

At least now I know where the two ends of the entire complex can be found!
So, from what I can figure, if we want to find the location of what was once the entrance we'd simply need to do the following:

-Locate the vents (not difficult since we know what they look like)

-While standing at the vents, turn and face South/Southeast and look for the tower/brick memorial (shouldn't be hard from that distance, given the size/height and no leaves on the trees)

-With your back to the most Southern vent, walk approximately 45 feet straight torward the tower/brick memorial. (I got the distance from the "Survey Tools" on Historicaerials while viewing the 1962 image. On that image, the vents are merely white smugges, back you can make them out.)

And that should be the location of the entrance, about 15 feet straight down.
Then again, all my theories are based on the fact that I've never been there. But on the other hand, I VERY confident in the intel. that I'm using (thanks to all!)

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Hip ()
Date: March 03, 2010 06:37PM

Sculler,
I'm having a hard time reconciling my memories of the layout, the outside pictures on page 1, Remey's general plan, and the overhead pictures.

First, it looks like there's nothing behind the entrance marked with a 1 on a previous posting. But there's where the actual crypt was.

Second, the tower was not directly in front of the Crypt. Standing in front of the Crypt and looking away from Route 1, the brick tower/monument was not directly in front, it was off to the right. That's what I remember and why I marked it the way I did on the photo. I also based it on Remey's plan but the pictures are hard to deny.

Third, where is the structure shown in the first picture on page 1? I don't see how that fits into the overhead picture.

In the overhead picture it looks like there is still construction going on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2010 07:08PM by Hip.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Whobe ()
Date: March 03, 2010 08:11PM

Those 1960 pictures are a little confusing. Is that with the roof on the cryps? Then what is with the wall shadows all around on top? Was there a parapet wall all around it?
The brick tower does look like where you're saying you remember Hip, there's a tall shadow to the front right of the entrance.
And at the very opposite end, is that the tall white oblesik that is still standing at the end of the dirt mound? If so, wow, that thing must be buried at least 20 ft. and still standing maybe 40-50 ft. above the dirt now. I do remember seeing that still standing when I went in the 80's.
So, the oblesik and the vents are still standing and the other guy says it was completely caved in? I would think if they destroyed it they would have went ahead and destroyed these structures at the same time.
Still seems like all they did was bury the whole thing without tearing it down?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 04, 2010 01:53AM

sculler: I was having dinner this evening with a friend (the only person to whom i've mentioned the crypts). We had printouts of the pictures from this thread, and eventually reached some conclusions, most of them align with yours.

To all:

(When I refer to "Remey west" or "Rwest", I am referencing a compass rose if it were to be placed on the blueprints. For instance, the westernmost portion of the Remeum would be the circular enclosure (disregarding the bench)...See Hip's post from Feb. 23, at 7:54pm, with the photoshopped rendering of the planned Remeum.)

1. Based on the photos, the shadow cast by the structure in the circular enclosure on Rwest indicates that that is the still standing spire/obelisk. On the blueprints, that is labelled "GCR/MJMR memorial". Also, on the spire close up pictures from 1/18/10 from Jimbo, you see the plaques have the names George Collier Remey and Mary Josephine Mason Remey. Intials? Definitely. That is the still standing spire.

2. The first in a series of five photos from Hip's post on 2/20/10 at 10:01pm shows a man standing near a recessed wall with the name William Butler Remey engraved on the top of the wall. That looks to me like part of the Rnorthern wall of the cruciform enclosure. Again, blueprint initials match up: "WBR"

3. I agree that the (currently) still standing air vents are those located on Reast, covering the two unmarked squares in the blueprints (assuming the five-room theory). Rwesternmost vent is above the small space directly Reast of the entrance chamber; the second vent is located in the small space that is Rwest of the "planned" rotunda. (I hope that everyone understands my R-direction method, and can reference the planned Remeum)

4. If is true that the air vents and the spire are in line, and that the vents associate with the planned spaces in the blueprints, trianguling the position of the entrance (91 photo/1956JD) should be easy, especially if we are certain the vents are above the rooms in (3).

5. Assuming that all of the above information is true, it seems we do have a location of the entrance; hence, we have a digging point.

(By the way, this is all under the assumption that the "Remeum is still there with a shitload of dirt on top" theory... which I honestly believe is true)

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:09AM

Hip,
You have in indeed actually been to the site before and after it's demise, therefore I believe you over my own theories based on what I've seen from photos.

I was just so sure that the long, thin shadow cast in the photo was that of the obelisk at Rwest (that does help, Diamond). If you say that I'm incorrect and that it is not in line with the two vents above the Crypts, then I'll believe you as you have first hand knowledge of this. Seeing as it's pretty tall, and it's a quality picture, I just don't see it off to the right, where your #2 is.
Based on the layout of everything above ground (as well as alot of the stuff underground that was never constructed), Remey seemed to be a big fan of symmetry. Therefore it made sense to me that a grand structure such as the obelisk would be at the top end of the CROSS (again, with the symmetry).
Even if the obelisk is off to the right when you have your back to the Rwesternmost vent, I'm still convinced that the vents are in line with the length of the entrace chamber. So if you walk the 45 feet from that point, I still think you'll be standing on top of the entrance. Do you agree with my theory about the vents being in line with the length of the entrance chamber?

I'm also glad that you brought up the point about the picture on page 1 (I assume you're talking about the VERY FIRST image on this thread, posted by Cary on Dec. 18 at 8:47, right?). If so, I'm assuming that that large wall structure is actually what you labelled as #1 in your photo. Therefore, I'm thinking that the entrance to the Crypts with the lions in front is just behind that.

Whobe,
I agree whole-heartedly that if someone is going to demolish an underground chamber, they most likely wouldn't bother to leave the ceiling and vents. It wouldn't make much sense....and it gives me hope.
That's why I'm planning on packing a flashlight and some rope with something tied to the end of it. I'm hoping they didn't get too creative with the vent shafts, and that they just go straight down, allowing me to get an idea of the kind of depth we're dealing with.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:55AM

The obelisk is in the center of the round part at the very southern end of the crypt. Look at the pics below. One is from the current Google Earth, the other form the USGS 1960 photo. The shadows match.

I think the vents, entrance and obelisk are in a straight line. It should be about 320 feet from the vent closest to the obelisk to the obelisk. The entrance should be about 50 feet from that obelisk along the line.

If you look at the Google Earth zip I posted above you should be able to do some measurements and get approximate coordinates. Unfortunately the GE overlay is not well registered (there is about a 30 foot different in the positions of the obelisk between the overlay and the current Google Earth image).
Attachments:
obelisk_googleearth_annotated.jpg
obelisk_usgs_annoted.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:57AM

Ooops...the entrance should be about 50 feet from the vent nearest the obelisk along the line between the obelisk and vents. My message above is unclear.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: kdub ()
Date: March 04, 2010 09:22AM

I've been doing some research on the early days of the Pagans and the story about the Pagans and Hells Angels rumbling at the tombs probably isn't true. The Pagans may have partied there, but the Hells Angels didn't arrive in the area until the nineties. It may have been Fates Assembly or an indie gang. The Pagans definitely had a presence in the Lorton area at the time. I'm doing some digging to see if I can find anything.

http://ourredneckpast.blogspot.com/

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 04, 2010 10:51AM

jgr007, thanks for the great compare/contrast with the labels. It just makes so much more sense that everything is in line down the center of the cross, as Remey seemed like he was so hung up on symmetry on all the plans that have been posted.

I'm really looking forward to actually getting out there and standing in the middle of everything.

kdub, an interesting look into the Redneckedness of our area.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:46PM

I tied down the 1960 image better to Google Earth and then tied down two of the plan images from underground just for grins. I'll post all three zips shortly.
Attachments:
Screenshot-2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 08:49PM

Bad image above. Hopefully this one works...
Attachments:
Screenshot-2.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 09:43PM

Here's a better grab of the 1960 image cut out plus the under ground portion from the plans. I'll post the zips with kmls in a bit.
Attachments:
Screenshot-3.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 04, 2010 09:46PM

Here are zips with the two KMLs from above. Let me know if anyone wants anything else...
Attachments:
layout31-warp-trim.zip
remey-crop-warp-trim.zip

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 05, 2010 06:12AM

Triangulate the postions of the supposed air vents (Reast) from the photo from jgr007's 1:17 March 2, 2010 post and compare the with the blueprints. The vents are above the rooms I've labelled in the picture.

I've never been to the site first hand, but this is what I've gathered from the various accounts/archives/photos posted on the thread. The MS Paint picture gives my best guess on the location of different structures.

Due to varying accounts of the underground structure, the label "COMPLETED UNDERGROUND AREAS" only includes what the five-room thoery entails: Entrance Chamber, Remey Chapel, Mason Chapel and two rooms of tombs.

Tell me if this is generally correct.
Attachments:
blues1.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 05, 2010 06:18AM

ahh shit, looking back on the pictures of the inside.. the underground might have been....
Attachments:
blues1.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 05, 2010 07:49AM

Once again, you guys have outdone yourselves. Not only are the images a huge help in appreciating the shear size of what was (and could've been) the Remeum, but they'll also be of great help when people go out to the site and need their bearings.

At some point this weekend, I plan on finally going to the site first hand. First thing Monday morning I'll let you know the results of the primative "depth test" that I have in mind for the vents. Depending on how sucessful it is/how the shafts of the vents were constructed/deteriation of the vents over the years, we'll hopefully have an idea of not only whether or not the interior of the chambers were filled in/demolished, but also how far down they are. And of course I also plan on testing our theories of the alignment of the obelisk and vents, as well as the approximate location and remenants of the entrance site.

I'll give you as many details as I can from what I see, but as I've said before I don't have any sort of digital camera, so sadly I won't be able to provide you with any pictures. But I will give you all the details I can.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Woodland Res ()
Date: March 05, 2010 11:25AM

Sculler, you NEED to buy a throwaway camera at least then...and I will pay to have them uploaded at the store if need be haha. This thread has gotten me so interested, I NEED to see pictures!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 05, 2010 12:15PM

That is a good suggestion. However, once I got the throw away camera, I'd have no idea on how to put the pictures I'd have taken on the site. As much fun as this thread has been, it has been frustrating not being able to contribute/scan images like everyone else because I'm really not that good with computers.
I'll tell you what, if I see anything new that has not already been posted (I think Hip has cornered the market on anything existing out there that's worth taking a picture of) I will research getting images of what I see posted on this thread.
As far as current pictures of the site are concerned, the only image we really don't have is the location of the entrance (with the exception of the picture that Hip posted on Jan. 20 at 7:51, but from his description I don't think that's the definate location, merely the general direction). I will provide the best details I can on the description of the entrance on Monday, as well as anything else I see out there.
Speaking of "anything else I see out there", while zooming in on Google satellite images of the area, there looks to be piles of brick/rubble to the "Remeyeast". I'll look this weekend first hand to see if that's the case.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 05, 2010 01:07PM

Here are the locations of the two entrances. The "91" entrance is inside the courtyard area. That is the entrance to underground. The other entrance is the entrance to the courtyard.

Start at the vent closest to the obelisk. Go about 50 feet towards the obelisk and the "91" should be there.
Attachments:
blues1.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 05, 2010 01:46PM

I have to say, that is indeed THE LAYOUT. That's about as clear as it's gonna get.

I can't remember how far back in the thread it was, but I believe a couple people that had been to the Crypts back in the day have said that what was the "91" entrance is now a large mound of dirt. So, knowing the exact direction I need to go once I'm at the "Remeywesternest" vent, I'm hoping the large mound will still be there and also be pretty easy to spot.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Whobe ()
Date: March 05, 2010 09:15PM

Now it's making more sense. I didn't realize the picture from the 60's only showed an above ground part? Maybe that's what they tore down and only piled dirt on the rest?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 05, 2010 09:23PM

Excellent. I'll have pics and an story monday as well.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 06, 2010 03:28PM

Screw Monday, I couldn't wait.

I just got back from the site, and I guess I'll start from the beginning...

The best way to get there is to park in the church parking lot, and then walk to the field Southeast of the cemetary. At the edge of the field you'll find some kind of pellet gun target course, with posts labelled 1 and 2 at the edge of it. Walk between these two posts into the woods, and walk up the edge of the 40 foot hill.
So now that you're at the top of the "plateau", if you look to your left you'll find the obelisk. What I found interesting about the obelisk is that the remenants of the brick semi-circle that surrounded it are still there, and you get an idea of the original "level" that the site had due to the fact that you can see the concrete pad the obelisk was mounted on through the leaves on the ground.
Walking Remeyeast, in the direction of the vents, I had to walk up another 6 feet to the very top of the "plateua". This additional 6 feet must be the work of the demo-team back in the early 80's. The top of the plateau is grassy, with plenty of nasty, red thorn bushes, but they were still matted to the ground thanks to all the recent snow.
I continued walking, and located the vents. The good news - our theory of the vents being in line with the obelisk are correct. The bad news - my "depth experiment" that I conducted on the vents by lowering a 5lb weight down all 3 flu pipes proved that they are all stopped up with brick shards and beer cans. I was only able to conduct the experiment on the Remeyeasternest vent, as the other was still too much in tact and I couldn't reach the flu-pipes (see Hip's earliest photos of the vents to see the hole in the side of the one I was at.)
A little dissappointed, I walked Remeywest from the vents approximately 40 feet in search of where the entrance location had been.

This is where it got interesting.

SOMEONE'S BEEN VERY BUSY...

Once I got about 40 feet from the vent, still in line with the obelisk, I found a hole. A BIG hole. This thing was about 4 feet in diameter, and 8 to 9 feet deep. The weird part: all the dirt that came out of this hole was nowhere to be found. Whoever dug this hole managed to take the dirt somewhere, and from the size of the hole there was ALOT of it. I couldn't help myself, so I climbed down in the hole, and there at the bottom was the top of a brick wall the someone had uncovered about 15 courses of. I'm pretty sure it was the top of a brick wall because there was a large slab of concrete on the top of the brick (which I used for footing to get out of the hole.) Now, the top of the brick wall at the bottom of the hole was at the RemeyWEST side of the bottom of the hole. But needless to say, whoever dug the hole used our predicted distances and proved that we may not have been far off at all in our calculations!
It also proves that when they demoed the structure, they may have done more burying than actual demolition. Walking down the edges of the plateau, there were plenty of pieces of brick as well as large chunks of concrete, so I don't think they were that concerned about clean-up.
Also, I didn't see any "No Trespassing" signs. And due to the fact that the Remeum is so high off the forest floor (which I wasn't expecting at all!) whoever dug this hole (and continues to dig it, if they are so inclined) has little to worry about along the lines of being caught.
But back to the hole, whoever dug it knew what they were looking for judging by the location. And they got lucky! From what I saw, I don't know that it's the top of the "91" wall, given the side of the hole that it was on, but it very well could be, they may just be on the other side of it.
Bottomline: it was a very fascinating day, especially finding the hole.
A tip of the hat to whomever put in all that work, and that must have been ALOT of work!

Are there intentions to continue digging?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Spacy ()
Date: March 06, 2010 04:00PM

It just can't be legal to be performing this excavation. Merely walking around until being asked to leave by the property owner ought to be okay, as far as trespassing is concerned. But I hope people don't get into trouble or arrested for going actually digging! That seems pretty dicey.

It might be better to secure permission from the property owner for doing these surveys. I don't think anyone would like to recreate the old trespassing and nuisance problems and get all kinds of people (the church, the police, the neighbors, the media, etc.) all upset. A historical survey and documentation would be interesting to the right people.

If you are afraid you can't get permission, can't you just look, and not vandalize the site?

I fear that the way this is going to end is that the site will be posted No Trespassing, it will be patrolled, there will be crime and liability boogeyman concerns, and nobody will ever get to visit it again, and it might be more thoroughly demolished. And we'll be reading about people being arrested, tried, and put in jail for some poor judgment about what could have simply been fun. You're not 17, and this isn't the laid-back 1970s.

I am sure that given FXUs visibility with the police and media that the authorities are going to get involved. They're reading this thread, you know.

It would be a shame to lose this whole interesting thing.

Maybe the active people should get together IRL and try to organize this in a way that will work out better? I'll help.



Edited 11 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2010 04:18PM by Spacy.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 06, 2010 05:33PM

I just got back from the site. I saw everything sculler mentioned plus a few other noteworthy things... I've got things to do tonight, but i'll post a more thorough breakdown tomorrow, along with PICTURES.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: super curious ()
Date: March 06, 2010 06:26PM

I've been following this thread with great interest, mainly because I grew up in Burke/Crosspointe and NEVER knew of this place (neither did my parents, who moved here in the early 70s).

I read somewhere that there was once a bench - is it still there (or in the area?).

Who technically owns the land that the Remeum is on? FXCO, Pohick Church, private? If it's FXCO, as Spacy says, there may be people who would be interested in historically documenting the site (or at least they can give permission).

I can't wait to see pictures!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Scott ()
Date: March 06, 2010 11:00PM

I've lived just about my whole life in FFX CO and never knew about the crypt until reading this thread. Very interesting indeed. I also went to Lake Braddock from 1976-1982, and Jimbo, you look very familiar.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 07, 2010 08:16AM

I was also at the sight yesterday and found the exact same things as Sculler mentioned. I took some pictures and climbed down in the hole that was found. We were wondering the same thing as to where all the dirt went. I did notice that the cement cap that was mentioned at the bottom of the hole appeared to actually be two pieces. One piece was pushed back about 2 inches from the other one, that would make me thing the 91 entrance was capped with two equal sized cement caps and whoever dug this found the dead center of the top of the 91 entrance wall, maybe just the wrong side of it. I also walked the route from the churck parking lot and about half way up the hill I found a 4" square cement block, sticking up out of the ground maybe a foot, and on the top of it was a circular marker that said CMR 1937. I only saw one yesterday but I remember finding more of them in a semi-circle going around behind the obelisk. I would bet they go all the way around the whole structure but most of them were probably buried. If you stand in front of the obelisk and look towards the vents it is amazing how much dirt they piled on top of this thing.
Attachments:
block.jpg
marker.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: spell check ()
Date: March 07, 2010 12:37PM

Spacy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It just can't be legal to be performing this
> excavation. Merely walking around until being
> asked to leave by the property owner ought to be
> okay, as far as trespassing is concerned. But I
> hope people don't get into trouble or arrested for
> going actually digging! That seems pretty dicey.
>
> It might be better to secure permission from the
> property owner for doing these surveys. I don't
> think anyone would like to recreate the old
> trespassing and nuisance problems and get all
> kinds of people (the church, the police, the
> neighbors, the media, etc.) all upset. A
> historical survey and documentation would be
> interesting to the right people.
>
> If you are afraid you can't get permission, can't
> you just look, and not vandalize the site?
>
> I fear that the way this is going to end is that
> the site will be posted No Trespassing, it will be
> patrolled, there will be crime and liability
> boogeyman concerns, and nobody will ever get to
> visit it again, and it might be more thoroughly
> demolished. And we'll be reading about people
> being arrested, tried, and put in jail for some
> poor judgment about what could have simply been
> fun. You're not 17, and this isn't the laid-back
> 1970s.
>
> I am sure that given FXUs visibility with the
> police and media that the authorities are going to
> get involved. They're reading this thread, you
> know.
>
> It would be a shame to lose this whole interesting
> thing.
>
> Maybe the active people should get together IRL
> and try to organize this in a way that will work
> out better? I'll help.


11 edits.. goodlord

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 07, 2010 01:03PM

My visit, with my friend “Club”….

1. THE VENTS: The vents are about 20 feet from each other, measuring from the center of each. They seem to be in line with the spire/obelisk, most likely confirming the theory that the vents and spire are the Rwest and Reast ends of the Remeum.

Note from the original pictures of the vents, they are structurally different (Sculler: this is the reason you could not test the depth of the Rwest vent). Perhaps one was intended for intake of air, the other for release of air. I don’t know much about the physics of flues, but I think that makes sense. The Rwest vent holes curve up (presumably bending back down to the underground areas), while the Reast vent has three shafts going straight down to those areas. I lit a small fire in one of the holes from the Rwest vent, and the flames shot inward (hence the intake/outtake theory). On one of four trials did we observe smoke coming from the Reast vent after lighting the fire on the Rwest vent (the other three times, most smoke was blown out of the other side of the Rwest vent). This leads me to believe that there is some sort of air circulation, but the debris (sticks, brick shards, beer cans, etc.) in the Reast vent prevent most of the air from circulating. I’m not completely sure, but after viewing the area, I’ll go back and conduct more experiments on the air circulation; which, now that I think of it, is a great indicator of whether the underground areas are still there.

Also, based on ballpark measurement, the deepest of the three shafts in the Reast vent is about 10ft, the other two between 6-8ft

2. THE HOLE: The hole goes down about 8 feet or so, and does strike a structure that seems to be intact. There are bricks and half-bricks embedded in the walls of the hole, indicating some sort of demolition. The hole is inline with the vents and the spire/obelisk. To my best knowledge (based on being there and taking eyeball measurements, and jgr007’s reconstituting of my MS Paint pic from 3/5/10, 1:07pm) the hole digs down to where the first picture on this thread shows, and not the ‘56JD/91 entrance.

There were no dirt piles near the hole. That opens up two theories: One, the hole was dug many years ago, and erosion has taken the excess dirt piles; or two, it is a sinkhole. Based on a conversation from a spelunker I know, the hole I described is a sinkhole. Despite this, how would a sinkhole randomly appear inline with the spire and vents, and happen to hit a structure? I do think someone dug the hole, but I’m not completely ruling out the sinkhole theory. Either way, be careful when going into the hole.

3: THE SPIRE/OBELISK: The only thing I can say about it that hasn’t been said is that it is near 50ft tall, not 30ft as previously estimated. I’ll post a picture here soon, with me standing against the structure. I’m ~6ft tall with boots on, and it takes about 8 of me to reach the top (again, pictures coming soon).

4: THE SURVEY MARKS: The CMR 1937 markers mentioned by BBX exist; I saw three of them on the Rwest side of the structure. Remember, from one of the first few posts, it mentions “Due to vandalism…Pohick church pressured Remey into breaking the 1937 contract”. These seem to be survey markers from that year, two years before construction began.

In addition to pictures, I’ve got some video of the area. I’ll post them on youtube or another site; I’ll keep you informed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2010 01:20PM by DiamondD-REK.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 07, 2010 01:20PM

How about a GPS coordinate for the hole?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: G ()
Date: March 07, 2010 01:36PM

pretty sure it's still church property so y'all are technically trespassing even if it's not posted

next post will be about someone getting caved in...

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: wtfno ()
Date: March 07, 2010 02:12PM

MrDoctor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The vent is the access point. Lets schedule a
> fairfax underground dig


Ain't going to happen unless you can find a way to get electricity out there to power a plasma TV.

This thread kicks ass, but it seems that some company came in dumped a shit ton of dirt on top. Shame.. this place looks awesome and people had to go and tear it up over the years.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 07, 2010 03:19PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:04PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 07, 2010 03:47PM

from 3/16/10:
1st pic: brick structure in the hole mentioned
2nd & 3rd: Two of three shafts in the Reast vent
4th: Spire with me (~6ft) for measurement purposes
Attachments:
265_1011.JPG
265_1008.JPG
265_1009.JPG
265_1003.JPG

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 07, 2010 07:10PM

Which direction is the brick structure facing?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 07, 2010 07:26PM

Approximate coordinates for the entrance are 38.707490, -77.196990 (UTM 308967, 4286608). Look at one of my posts above. You can get the KML and load it in Google Earth. There is some error both in GE and in the registration of the 1960 image to GE so everything is approximate.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 07, 2010 07:35PM

If you were to look through that brick structure in the hole, you'd see the spire. The wall runs Rnorth to Rsouth, and I believe it is the wall to get into the inner atrium (still above ground), and not the actual underground portions.
My best guess at the hole location is somewhere on the red line, probably closer to the center (as the hole is ballpark inline with the vents and spire).
Attachments:
hole location.jpg

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: I love you all ()
Date: March 07, 2010 07:48PM

Mad love to everyone who is contributing to this thread...

The only nancy-pants thing I can say is maybe cover up the dug hole/sinkhole so no clueless woods-walker falls in and breaks their ass.

Seriously, this is an amazing thread and I am completely fascinated.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: geologist ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:11PM

It's not a sinkhole. for that you need limestone (karst) underneath which would dissolve into a cave system, and when one of the cave chambers collapses, it creates a sinkhole.
It is possible to get soil collapses, which are usually due to water flow, which this one isn't the case.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:16PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:03PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: not a geologist ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:18PM

Could it be water leaking into the intact crypt, or possibly the collapsed brick-filled chamber if its not intact (With all its voids between the rubble) and carrying the dirt away with it?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:19PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:03PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: not a geologist ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:21PM

or durr.. If you've been digging the hole then its obviously not a sinkhole..

Make sure you cover that shit up afterwards!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 07, 2010 09:31PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:03PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: geologist ()
Date: March 07, 2010 10:45PM

not a geologist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could it be water leaking into the intact crypt,
> or possibly the collapsed brick-filled chamber if
> its not intact (With all its voids between the
> rubble) and carrying the dirt away with it?


Yep, it's entirely plausible that could be the case. I didn't take that into account because there doesn't seem to be a constant source of water such as a creek or a broken water line, and since it's a topographic high, you won't get a stream of water from rain pooling and draining internally. But, if it was a pre-existing depression on the top of the pile, then over time it's entirely possible that as a small internally draining system from rain, the water could pool over the hole, then flow in.

Are the sides of the hole angled down, or relatively straight? sediment being carried in should be cone shaped, roughly around 23-27 degrees.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 08, 2010 12:26AM

Geologist/notGeologist: The person I talked to about the hole was an amateur spelunker; he just looked for caves in the Shenandoah Valley. He did mention the angle of the sides of the hole, along with the difference between a cylindrical versus a conical shape. It is definitely cylindrical, and with BobSaget's claiming to have participated in the digging, it's most likely not a sinkhole.

BobSaget: When did you start digging? What structure (wall or ceiling) do you think you have reached? What did you do with the dirt/mud from the bottom of the hole?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 08:27AM

Spacey,

You do have some valid concerns (although they're really not what I wanna hear at this point in the excitement).

I don't know the exact, hair-splitting,legalities of this whole situation, but I think it in order to "vandalize" portions of this site with our "excavation" and "surveys", we'd have to be going about it another way.
I don't think that what we're doing (thus far) necessarilly falls under any of those terms. Plus, there were no "No Tresspassing" signs, and we could just be there to pay respects to our dead relatives in the cemetary or see the historical church...and while we're at it take a short hike in the woods - perfectly legal, right?

We haven't destroyed anything. And what we're looking for has most likely been long forgotten. If it was such a treasure to "the right people" who were so hell-bent on saving it, they should have stepped up back in the early 80's (or the 27 years since then!). Now we our left to literally "dig" through their ignorance. We on this thread view it as an important part of this county's history, and I think (and hope) I speak for more than myself when I say that we haven't put in all this time and research just to destroy it in the end.

"Out of sight, out of mind" is how the Pohick Church seems to have wanted to deal with the Remeum since it was buried, so as long as those who want to see it stay "out of sight" (which seems to be much easier than I originally thought), I don't see how it could be a problem.

On to something else I was thinking about over the weekend - when I was at the site, taking in just how much of a towering plateau it was, rising up from the bottom of the woods, I noticed that there was a significant drop-off behind the Remeyeasternest vent. This made me think of 2 things - (1) if Remey's masterplan was to build the rest of the underground chambers on the plans, was he going to dig even deeper in order to compensate for the drop-off, or was that level 80 years ago and has since been eroded? (2) Since we have an approximate 45 degree drop-off directly behind the Remeyeasternest vent, that should be the rear of the chamber, right? So, if one were so inclined, they could start digging horizontally at the bottom of the 5 foot drop-off and possibly find the rear wall of the chamber. If someone were to find the wall, we'd have a better idea as to whether or not the whole thing was demolished.
And now that I've been to the site, I'm even more convinced that the underground chambers were not destroyed due to the fact that (a) the vents are still there (as we've pointed out before), and you don't destroy a house and leave the chimneys standing. (b) if you've "leveled" something through demolition, then why put 6 feet of dirt on top of it?

DiamondD-REK, I'm not sure I agree with you about the wall in the hole being the Inner Atrium wall and not the wall to the entrance. Using the surveying tools on Historicaerials.com, the wall to the Inner Atrium measures about 76 feet from the Remeywesternest vent, whereas the hole seems to be much closer to 45 feet from the vent (where the "91" wall should be). So I'm inclined to think that we may very well have found the "91" wall, not the Inner Atrium wall.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 08, 2010 08:34AM

If anyone is looking for something to go explore there is a house boat that washed up on the shore at Mason Neck State Park, its about 10 minutes away from the crypts. If you know where Pohick Regional Park is Mason Neck is a few miles farther down that road. I went out there after visiting the crypts on Saturday and took a look around, there is a bunch of stuff still in the boat and it appears to be in ok condition other than the fact that it is beached.

Back to the crypts, so if the brick wall at the bottom of the hole is really the Inner Atrium wall then how much closer to the vents would the underground entrance be?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 08:50AM

I'm still convinced that the wall is the "91" wall. It just seems to be too close to the vents to be the Inner Atrium wall.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 09:39AM

I don't know if the rest of you feel the same way about ticks as I do, but apparently Tick Season starts in April. The combination of all that tall grass up there and the deer tracks that I saw seems to be a bad combination. I realize it's getting warmer, but I suggest light-colored long pants (makes 'em easier to spot) that are tucked into your sucks (stylin'!) and long sleeves, as well as OFF, just to be on the safe side.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 08, 2010 12:27PM

If the hole is only 40-50 feet from the vents, it's definitely not the entrance to the inner atrium. It's the Narthex/entrance to underground or another structure.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 12:46PM

I concur.

I just wish there was a way to figure out what part of the wall was at the bottom of the hole without having to do too much more digging and risking a cave-in.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 08, 2010 02:02PM

If that is the top of the entrance wall at the bottom of the hole, it's obviously the other side of it (seeing as it's facing the vents). So from the top of the OTHER side of that wall, one would have to dig another three feet to reach the top of the sculptures on eithor side of the archway, and then an addtional four and a half feet to the top of the entrance. 8 feet of total digging as far as I can tell. I figured a brick is about 3 inches high, and then about half an inch or so for each of the mortar joint. The sculptures are probably about 4 and a half feet apart (as I counted the 8 inch brick between them).

Approx. 17 feet from the top of the existing hole to the entrance (as far as I can tell)

All my figuring was done using the very first picture of the "91" entrance on the first page of this thread. Math is not my best subject, but when you look at the picture of the entrance from 1956 in comparison to the guy looking at the hole, my numbers seem fairly accurate.

It's seems pretty dangerous to start at the bottom of the existing hole, dig sideways to reach the other side of the wall, and then start digging down again another 8 feet. Then you'd have 8 feet of dirt above your head that's not supported, which doesn't seem all that safe. Widing the hole a couple of feet in the direction of the obelisk (and taking that dirt OUT of the hole), then going the addtional 8 feet to the entrance would be alot of work, with no promise of complete success that what you're looking for is there.

And it's not the legal ramifications I'm so concerned about, but more the safety.
I'd love to see what's down there just as much as the next guy, but when you talk about digging straight down 17 feet (assuming one went that route), that's a whole lotta dirt that could potentially come down on someone. And no matter how many of your buddies are out there with you, chances are slim they'll get to you in time. And if the Crypts are still untouched and the hole you've dug caves in while you're in the chamber, that could potentially suck a whole lot as well.

I hate to turn into such a "wet blanket" all of a sudden, but it wasn't until I crunched the numbers that it came into perspective. Unless someone plans on making that hole ALOT wider, things could go very wrong very quickly.

So far, this thread's been quite a fucking journey from the day it started, but I don't think it's worth anyone getting hurt.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 08, 2010 03:24PM

I was thinking the same thing about that hole caving in and how much that would suck. I do like the idea of digging in from behind the vents to see if we hit a wall, no risk of cave in.

I was also thinking about how they would have built the remainder of the structure after seeing the drop off you mentioned. I'm wondering if the plan wasn't to build right behind those vents as if it would have been above ground and then once it was all complete and had the ceiling on it they would come in and bury the whole thing.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 08, 2010 03:40PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:03PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 08, 2010 03:55PM

I would say that is the best bet for figuring out if the underground structure still exists. The only problem with that is that is the most exposed side of the site so we would need to be careful about being seen walking back there with shovels. It may be better to line yourself up to the south side of the eastern most vent and dig in that way, you shoudl hit a side wall of the underground structure and would be more shielded from view on that side of the hill.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 08, 2010 04:37PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:04PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Anonymous fan of thread ()
Date: March 08, 2010 09:03PM

Saget, Hip, Sculler, etc.

This thread is amazing. I stumbled upon it Saturday night, 3/6, and was up all night riveted. Sunday afternoon I went to Pohick Church to check out the hole, and I saw a Lorton fire and rescue engine, and thought...oh shit someone got stuck. I saw 2 male and 1 female EMTs walking the grounds, but they didn't approach me, so I went on an checked it out for myself. Don't know why they were there, unless they have a friend buried at Pohick Church.

Lots of deer sign, lots of old beer cans (Meister Brau...damn that's old) and a seriously deep, square hole in some thick bush. As mentioned earlier, it's huge that the snow was so deep recently, as the red thorn bushes look like they'd be evil under normal conditions.

I am totally fascinated by this site. I grew up on Rt. 1, went to MVHS in the 1990s, and never heard a word of this. I talked to an older friend who went to Groveton (now West Potomac) in the late 70s and he said they used to party their a lot. He also mentioned finding a slave dungeon in Huntley Meadows park, complete with shackles and a fire place, that they used when they would go there. Fuckin' fascinating.

I can't believe that this place got buried...it should've been preserved and restored. Seeing those pictures of the Admiral with his head attached bummed me out, but teen vandalism is a timeless situation...they place was getting defaced for nearly 50 years by the bored teens of the area.

After checking it all out, I can't see how they caved it in, and it they did, do you think the Lions and all are still buried down that deep? I was under the impression that the obilisk was at ground level...am I off?

Do you think the lions from the 1954 JD image are buried under the dirt in the 91 entrance image? If so, that would rule!

Keep posting as you go...I don't know that I would want to be the first to crawl into the place again, but god damn is it tempting!!!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Anonymous fan of thread ()
Date: March 08, 2010 09:08PM

If you were to able to widen the hole enough to make it safe, and then do down another few feet, I think you'd be at the belly crawl level of the late 70s. It just seems like they piled a shit ton more dirt on it.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: jgr007 ()
Date: March 08, 2010 09:18PM

What's the GPS coordinate of the hole?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 08, 2010 10:05PM

The Fairfax Police dept has begun surveillance of this location with more frequency and will arrest anyone found trespassing or defacing the property. Fair warning.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 08, 2010 10:38PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:04PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: BB*X ()
Date: March 09, 2010 07:42AM

Bob,

If you dig behind the vents I would not expect to find a way in, just a wall of some sort. There was mention of a cinder block wall in the crypts that no one knew what was on the other side of it and my bet is that was where the Remeum would have been expanded to finish the rest of the rooms on the plan. Digging behind those vents and finding an intact vertical wall would just tell us that the underground structure still seems to be in place.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: curiuos ()
Date: March 09, 2010 08:54AM

Doesnt there need to be a sign that says no trespassing in order to enforce it? Just like jehovas witness that walk in your yard I cant call the cops on them unless I have a sign displayed

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: XXX ()
Date: March 09, 2010 09:06AM

§ 18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-173; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1982, c. 169; 1987, cc. 625, 705; 1991, c. 534; 1998, cc. 569, 684.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Yes, you are not trespassing until you have been told by a person to leave and don't or leave and come back, or it is posted by a sign.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: wtfno ()
Date: March 09, 2010 04:57PM

Anonymous fan of thread Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I talked to an older friend
> who went to Groveton (now West Potomac) in the
> late 70s and he said they used to party their a
> lot. He also mentioned finding a slave dungeon in
> Huntley Meadows park, complete with shackles and a
> fire place, that they used when they would go
> there.


Wait.... what?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 09, 2010 07:39PM

I don't know what my thought process was in my previous post, but yes, I agree that the hole should be over the structure in the 91 picture (albeit the incorrect side).

saget: When were you digging? Also, I was looking at your pics from photobucket.. Someone has his/her foot over a small brick wall with a pipe; where is that pipe structure located?

Man, fuck the po-lice

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 09, 2010 10:57PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2010 10:04PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: quickThought ()
Date: March 10, 2010 01:17AM

Somebody should organize a documented restoration or digging, with permits and so on. Get buy in from pohick church and county(?) so its all legal, safe, and the legend can lay to rest once and for all. Hell, turn it into a park or attraction with historical signs etc. This could:

-Provide good PR for FFX Co. and church

-Eliminate future incidents, because the facts will be out there. Otherwise there will be people sneaking around back there all the time (maybe even me)

-Allow police to enforce real crime, instead of threatening trespassing charges on internet boards over something victimless and harmless. Cops: Look around, there are more important places you could be patrolling and better ways for you to uphold the law than bothering people that are interested in history

-Allow for efficient, uninterrupted digging etc. which sounds unlikely now.

-It Would probably be unrealistic otherwise to remove that much dirt, especially if the whole thing is filled in (I would guess it is)

-Provide all of us who are curiously following this thread with results

-Would be a good documentary, news story, etc.

Whoever owns the land should be investing in resources to clean the place out, document it for tv or film, or open it as attraction. I am cheering for anyone exploring this place, digging, and especially those providing pictures. Unfortunately, I think the reality of it is that unauthorized efforts will be too tough to really get anywhere.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 10, 2010 07:47AM

So long as the Church, Authorities, nieghbors, etc. aren't under the impression that Disney has opened up a new themepark in the woods, I don't foresee there being a problem. Nothing has been destroyed, and no one has any intentions of destruction (not that anyone besides those on this thread give a damn about the Remeum).

I'm sure those who've been contributing to this thread would love to continue providing everyone with updates and results. But if the Church and the County were asked to participate or aid in these explorations, that's a sure-fire way to STOP GETTING RESULTS AND UPDATES. As long as everyone remains safe, non-destructive and descrete, I don't see why anyone should have a concern as to what's going on out there.

Anonymous fan of thread, from what I've read WAY back in the beginning is that most of the free-standing sculptures were all removed since they were the main targets of the vandals, unfortunately. However, seeing as the 2 sculptures to the right and left of the "91" entrance appear to have been built into the wall, I would assume those are still there and would be of great help in locating said entrance. You took care not to draw too much attention to yourself when the Fire Department was there, right?

I agree about hitting the other side of the cinderblock wall if one were to dig in from behind the vents, and the fact that it appears to be alot safer. I also agree that if someone were to find that cinderblock wall intact that it would definately give us a better idea as to whether or not the chambers were still intact. Then again, I also have to agree that given the lack of current foliage to provide cover, if one were to start digging there now it might be pretty obvious to curious neighbors. Another angle of approach might be a better idea.

And yes, I still think that the wall at the bottom of the hole is the "91" wall, it's just the wrong side of it. I still can't think of a safe way someone would go about digging all the way down to the entrance without widing the entrance to that hole by at least 8 feet (I'm not an engineer, but the wider the better...well, not from a descrete point of view.)

As for this "slave dugeon" in Huntley Meadows, I smell a new thread of exploration, hopefully (assuming it still exists).

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: idea ()
Date: March 10, 2010 03:59PM

I would suggest seeing if you can contact any decedents of Remey. I heard a rumor that they had wanted to get the dirt removed a few years back, but the church didn't really want to, or didn't want to pay the money to have it excavated. The church dragged their heels and I think the idea was eventually dropped. The family may still be interested, though! oh, and i think there are no trespassing signs up now, just fyi.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: No Trespassing ()
Date: March 10, 2010 06:06PM

Be advised that the church is aware of what is going on (including monitoring this thread) and No Trespassing signs are being posted and the police have been alerted.

Does anyone really think that if they're caught digging on private property that they're not going to be cited with anything? And, there are other parts of VA law that protect trespass or disturbance of church & cemetery grounds and structures, so if you intend to go much further, you might want to read up on those.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: wtfno ()
Date: March 10, 2010 06:58PM

idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would suggest seeing if you can contact any
> decedents of Remey. I heard a rumor that they had
> wanted to get the dirt removed a few years back,
> but the church didn't really want to, or didn't
> want to pay the money to have it excavated. The
> church dragged their heels and I think the idea
> was eventually dropped. The family may still be
> interested, though! oh, and i think there are no
> trespassing signs up now, just fyi.

This is probably the best course of action. If you get the family involved, that may allow exploring or, at least, some compassion on a judge's part if it had to go that far. I think this thread kicks ass and I want to see what is underneath just as much as the next person, but there are laws in place. Not worth getting hit with a fine or feeling metal to your wrists for this.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 11, 2010 07:26AM

While Remey's family may be proud of what Charles built and the incredible vision that he had, due to the fact that none of their family is still buried there I don't think they would be that interested. If the family was really that interested, they would have made an effort to do something about it over the last 30 years (at least). Contacting the family is an interesting idea, but whatever they have to say will most likely have little impact on the County's narrow-mindedness.
That brings me to another point: If even the descendants of the man who masterminded this incredible structure don't give a damn about it, why would anyone else? It's been 30 years since it was demolished! 30 years! Anyone from the police department that was working back then has most likely retired, and the same for the Church. Until someone actually sees a "No Trespassing" sign (and I assure you, there were no signs as of 3/6/10), or Fairfax County's finest at the edge of the woods with their hands on their hips, I'm not buying what you're selling. I'm still under the firm belief that VERY FEW people know and/or give a shit about what's out there. Why you insist on peppering this thread with threats that people are going to be arrested, I don't know. Maybe when you were a child the other kids didn't include you in their activities, but that's your personal problem, not ours.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: idea ()
Date: March 11, 2010 02:10PM

someone cares, as there ARE "no trespassing" signs up (as of 3/10/10), the church DID find the hole, and DID call the police. I personally would love to see whats left of the remeum, but i didn't want to see people in trouble with the law. Especially since i'm pretty sure there's more at stake than just a slap on the wrist for trespassing.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 11, 2010 02:48PM

OK. I agree, I don't want anyone to get in trouble eithor (kinda because it seems like such a stupid thing to get busted for).

Let's say we believe you, and that the church did in fact put up signs and notified the police. My question is, why would they call the police unless they actually saw somebody back there digging? I wouldn't think they'd call the police simply because people were walking in the woods.

And let's say they did find the hole.

So what?

They found a hole in the ground. You know what they didn't find?

The dirt that came out of the hole.

A number of people on this thread have stated that they too have seen the hole. Due to the fact that there was no dirt around it they actually thought it might be a sink hole, despite the incredible coincidence of the location. For all we know, the church/police thought the same thing. If the church was aware that people were going back there, I feel like they would have actually confronted them or called the police in a timely fashion to have them stopped, and we've have heard about it by now.

If a credible source (you know who you are) posts that there are NO TRESSPASSING signs that have recently been put up, I'll believe it. However, it's gonna take alot more convincing to make me believe they called the cops for people walking into the woods in broad daylight. So I'm sticking with my theory that nobody but a select few care/know about what's back there.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 11, 2010 02:54PM

idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would suggest seeing if you can contact any
> decedents of Remey. I heard a rumor that they had
> wanted to get the dirt removed a few years back,
> but the church didn't really want to, or didn't
> want to pay the money to have it excavated. The
> church dragged their heels and I think the idea
> was eventually dropped. The family may still be
> interested, though! oh, and i think there are no
> trespassing signs up now, just fyi.

In this post you say that you "think there are no trespassing signs up"

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: The Sculler ()
Date: March 11, 2010 03:02PM

idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> someone cares, as there ARE "no trespassing" signs
> up (as of 3/10/10), the church DID find the hole,
> and DID call the police. I personally would love
> to see whats left of the remeum, but i didn't want
> to see people in trouble with the law. Especially
> since i'm pretty sure there's more at stake than
> just a slap on the wrist for trespassing.

And the very next day, you say "there ARE 'no trespassing' signs up".

Have you seen them, or are you just upset because I didn't believe you when you stated that you "thought" there were NO TRESSPASSING signs up?

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: bob saget ()
Date: March 11, 2010 03:13PM

.

Start living, or start dying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2010 07:02PM by bob saget.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: FFXPD ()
Date: March 11, 2010 04:08PM

We have been asked to step up enforcement of the church property and will not hesitate to arrest anyone found trespassing.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: idea ()
Date: March 11, 2010 04:28PM

bob - it doesn't really matter to me what you believe. just tryin to look out for ya...i dont really think the church likes people on their property, or in the priest's backyard. If you do decide to go do more digging, though, I wouldn't put up photobucket album pictures as your profile picture on facebook. Again, just lookin out. I realize that the goal is adventure; leave nothing but footprints...I am just suggesting exploring somewhere else for now, thats all.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: No Trespassing ()
Date: March 11, 2010 04:42PM

bob saget Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tell us how you know the police have been
> contacted, from what you have said I don't believe
> any of it.


Funny how you don't believe it, yet you've edited out your previous posts in this thread... call the church property manager and ask him yourself.

Oh and you might want to look up VA Code 18.2-127 & 128 before you go out there again.

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: DiamondD-REK ()
Date: March 11, 2010 05:39PM

how the fuck are you gonna suggest we call the church and ask about possible sightings of trespass?
"hey, pohick church, seen anyone in your backyard lately?"
"no.."
"oh good. well, don't look back there, 'cause no one has been there in 30 years. Trust me. And I'm damn sure I wasn't there"

C'mon SON!

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Re: Remey Tomb/Crypt
Posted by: Charles Mason Remey ()
Date: March 11, 2010 06:30PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the FFXPD doesn't post warnings in internet forums....who else thinks that we're getting trolled?

HURR DURR LOOK U GAIZ, ITS ME, CHARLES REMEY, IT EVEN SAYZ SO IN THE NAME FIELD

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