I see BB*X is making a lot of friends here, what a douche bag. Typical "Internet Tough Guy" pussy who sits behind his PC all day with his 3" dick in his hands. What a total jackoff!

WOW Getting litte hot here...Im just here to tell my best times growing up in Falls Church and I really dug going to Crypts.There was always at least 5 of us going and each time it was really weird and kinda of spookie.I told of useing a rope to get down the wall into the tomb courtyard it was easy going down but being the last guy out was always really wierd you kept looking arond till you got up the rope and most of the time you had to be pulled up because we are talking at least 15 feet to ground.Those 2 big sleeping lions where really kool to.It was so neet because at first there was no damage and it was like a place out of that show TALES FROM THE CRYPT.Lots of over growth those bad ass stickers that would tear you up right through your geans.You know back then lots of good drugs around and being in there on acid or another thing was KILLER WEED like smoking weed but 2 hits and man you where really buzzing.I really miss that place I ask what is the state of it now but know one has told me,is it all covered now,are there plans to build there?I was back there 2 yrs. ago for Rolling Thunder but didnt have time to get there probable would of made me sick to see it now.People post the vents are still there? you use to be able to see all the way inside now guess there full of trash.If there was a way in that would be it but they where very small so it could be unsafe.Ok dig hearing what people have to say about ole crypts,man i could go on fore hours of my adventures there...Later 4 now..

I want to jump in here with a couple thoughts. First of all, I agree with Brodys' comment that all stories are important. I agree whole heartedly.
Having said that, BBX, thanks for all your contributions to the site, going out there and supplying photos, and weighing in with your opinions, Like Brody says, your story is important too, and I don't want you to stop posting, I have enjoyed reading your posts.
Now, K Fernandes, Thanks for your posts as well. Could you please supply us with something more "concrete" or explain more, or at least call Brody and tell your story so that it may be shared with us. Also who is W Fernandes that posted two minutes right after you? Is that you as well, because that person answered my question about where you went to school. If its a different person, maybe they went to the crypts and would care to share? How about some of your Pagan friends or other friends? Maybe they have pictures as well?
Could you also please write a little bit more exactly about what you saw during those 40 or so trips there, that none on this blog have mentioned? I understand you enjoyed the place but would like to hear some more details besides the "reminiscing" about the awe, the coolness and what a blast you had. I am realy keen on hearing about what exactly was behind that wall. What were the statues like, if there were any? Were there friezes? Were the caskets opened? ETC... I am still hoping to see a picture of the door-knocker. At 40 times down there, it would seem you were there more than most, and I would be very interested to hear your "take" on the map/blueprint that is shown further up in the blog. What was the layout like? There are a few shown up above, which of them is the "real" layout? Thanks again for your posts, and am looking forward to hearing some of the details you saw that no one has talked about yet.

@ Demetriost: K & W Fernandes are the same person. Marshall HS is the answer to your question. I suggested K. Fernandes visit this forum after he inquired about the crypts elsewhere on the web. Show him some hospitality you morons. Don't be a DICK BB*X. It's jerkoffs like you that make NoVA a shitty place to live. K. Fernandes is an important resource and I understand his writing just fine.

Thanks for sharing your insights K. I've been following this thread since it began. The crypts (also called the Remeum) are very interesting.

K.- the answer to your question is in this thread. The crypts have been bulldozed multiple times. Most seem to think that they are still intact but buried under many feet of dirt. Good to see u posting here :)

WASHINGTON DC

JULY 9th, 2011

Re: In answer to K.Fernandes & Demetriost

Dear Folks,

The layout of the Remeum that has been posted is in fact correct & accurate,if you look closely at the lower right hand corner you will see the initials "CMR" which obviously stand for Charles Mason Remey.

Those posted sheets are the "draftsman" drawings that Remey executed and which I have personally seen as they are included in Remey's vast body of published work which are held in public trust by various public libraries and institutions of higher learning. In fact, for residents of suburban Fairfax County who desire to peruse the documents including the draftsman drawings, please visit the Virginia Room of the Fairfax County Library, located in the Fairfax City branch on Old Lee Highway in the centre of the town. The works are held in the "Special Collections" and require personal interaction with the librarians.

Next, Mr. Fernandes, according to the demolition expert I interviewed a month or two ago, whose responsibility was executing a study for probability & feasibility of demolition v. complete burial and grading of the complex for Shirley Contracting Corporation in 1983, the structure as built, is most likely entirely intact as it was buried under a mixture of rubble from the demolished courtyard walls and inner atrium that you climbed down as a adolescent along with several hundred cubic yards of fill materials. The irony here being that Remey designed it to be buried and to carry the tremendous weight of the soil overhead.

As a request, I would again ask that you contact me either by phone or e-mail as I'd appreciate an opportunity to interview you and capture your story as further oral history and documentation of the latter days of the Remeum. Of particular interest is that you apparently transversed the complex prior to Admiral Wadleigh's contracting the installation of the plugs barring further access to the interior beyond the entrance chamber.

I can publicly state that I can treat you as a source without disclosing your being identified and as further incentive sir, upon checking with the office of the Commonwealth's Attorney, I learned that any misdemeanor actions from that time period 40 years ago, in fact even up to the point the complex was buried, would not be prosecutable under the Code of Virginia- ie: statute of limitations:

Virginia has a statute of limitations on certain crimes which is spelled out in Virginia Code §19.2-8. This means the charge must be brought within the time period established by Virginia Code from the date of the offense. Most misdemeanor offenses have a statute of limitations of one year. One of the more common exceptions to this rule is the offense of petit larceny which has a five year statute of limitations. There are other exceptions which may apply and the code section should be referenced. [http://virginiacriminallawyers.vatrafficlaw.com/pages/felony-vs-misdemeanor.html ]

Note: There are no statute of limitations on the commencement of felony charges however, after discussions with law enforcement officials, most agreed that none of the actions committed at the Remeum would qualify as felonies under Virginia law.

Thusly, you would be able to converse with me in the safety of anonymity should you so desire. I'd also appreciate a photograph of the relic/artifact you have in your possession as my staff and I have been able to acquire some documentation/purchase orders that document items that Remey had installed in the complex such as the alabaster chandeliers and the generator that was located in the storage room. It would be a treat to match your artifact with the specified items used in the construction with a list of decorative features.

Again, I thank all of you whom have taken the time to interact here & post coupled with those who have called and e-mailed me. Please feel free to continue to do so.

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque
BL Freelance News Service
Washington D. C.
202 556 0877
theroadtraveler@gmail.com

I went to the crypts back in the 80's . Once when there were still above ground structures and then several times after it was leveled over. We could still get in along a side entrace. I have posted my story here before ,I think around pg.5.

One thing is the place was very impressive purportedly with 1 million bricks. Were these bricks from the local Lorton yard?

Brody, maybe you've already said, but what are your plans for all of the info that you gather? Book? article? forum posting? NatGeo special?(that would be cool)

Thanks for all of your time thats gone into the investigation of, and posting about your findings.

I graduated from an area school in the early eighties. I never went to the crypt, but remember others in school talking about it.

K.Fernandes,

The crypts are inaccessible at this point, without doing a lot of digging and trespassing. The two air vents are still sticking up out of the ground but they, like you said, have been filled with trash and rubble. Someone, he removed all of his posts and pic's a while back, started digging a hole out there using the blue prints and pictures posted here and when I was last there the hole was down to the top cap of one of the walls, probably five or six feet deep. It appears that all of the walls were made of brick but had a cement cap on top. I climbed down in the hole and I could see the cement cap and about three or four rows of bricks under the cap. It was about that time when the church must have become aware of this thread because No Trespassing signs were posted the next time I went back. I'm assuming the guy who started the hole got in some trouble because all of his posts about this place were removed, as well as his posts about exploring the Lorton prison after it was closed.

"I see BB*X is making a lot of friends here, what a douche bag. Typical "Internet Tough Guy" pussy who sits behind his PC all day with his 3" dick in his hands. What a total jackoff!"

I've provided a lot more info on this subject than you have. My pic's from visiting the crypts prove that I don't sit behind my computer all day with my 3"dick in my hand. This is also the first time I have caused a ripple in the FFU pool so I don't think that warrants total jackoff, maybe partial but definitely not total.

A jury of your peers has decided that you are in fact, a total jackoff. Congratulations!

Does anyone know why they had carved 666 on the top side of vaults?

WASHINGTON DC

JULY 12th, 2011

RE: "Brody, maybe you've already said, but what are your plans for all of the info that you gather? Book? article? forum posting? NatGeo special?(that would be cool)"

Dear Folks,

The original intent was to write an article, mostly directed at the latter day history and events regarding the Remeum, ie: The urban legend that was the crypts.

However, as most of you have discovered by reading my charting the various discoveries and the wealth of information- 200 linear feet & counting, of the Remeum's architect and builder Charles Mason Remey's biographical history, this has turned into quite a fascinating tale.

What invariably sparks the most interest is the intrigue, the mystery, and the interwoven historical facts, persons, and associated stories that swirl around Remey. He was by far no ordinary person.

Consider, we still have yet as to determine the answer to the most fundamental question that exists about Remey and his motivation for building this memorial/tomb: "Why?"

This story is like an Onion folks, you just keep peeling back the layers.

At this point? I have not just one, but several stories all related to this place, its builder, and yes, many of you now reading this thread who have so graciously contributed to the on going saga are yet again another story.

A book? Maybe. Right now though to be honest, the research continues as myself and my staff attempt to chase down leads, people, and documentation about this captivating bit of Fairfax County's history.

Not a complete answer I realise, but then too- there's still much to be investigated and documented.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque
BL Freelance News Service
Washington DC
202 556-0877
theroadtraveler@gmail.com

The attached is a picture of Charles Mason Remey in the late 1950's taken at a gathering of ranking Baha'i in Paris, France. The gentleman in front of him that he is speaking to is Joel Marangella, another controversial Baha'i who was later like his mentor Remey ex-communicated as a "covenant" breaker. [Remey is the tall white haired gentleman at centre-point.]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2011 12:32AM by Brody Levesque.
Attachments:

Has anyone uploaded a scan of the prints that have been discussed as of late?

**The blue prints that is :p

WASHINGTON DC

JULY 12th, 2011

Re: "Has anyone uploaded a scan of the prints {blueprints} that have been discussed as of late?"

Dear Folks,

The construction blueprints were loaned to me personally by the current owner of them with the assurances given from me that all care would be taken to preserve and conserve them.

I was fortunately able to convince a noted NYC architectural & civil engineering design firm to digitise the prints pro bono. However, as is often the case, because of the gracious nature and treatment I have been afforded by the firm, I am quite reluctant to ask the firm to "speed" up the process.

I assure you, that once I am able, I shall attempt to post the results here although the digitised conversion into a jpeg or png format may not be small enough, even by means of reduction to post depending on the outcome or final size of the digitised images. Should that not work, I'll attempt to find a way to display the results.

Thanks for your collective patience.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2011 09:43PM by Brody Levesque.

this thread is by and far the most interesting to come off the board in awhile,any plans to turn the plans into a 3-d walk through .making remey's dream come to life after all the generations disrespecting his families shrine it would be quite something to make it live agian in all it's pristine glory in the virtual world.

I've recently have been looking more into "the Crypts" and from the pictures of the two men climbing down from the enterance you see a gate. I also was looking at the plans and saw that beyond the cinderblock wall, beyond the enterance chamber and past the remey and mason chapels there are three (3) simmilar markings that look simmilar to the enterance gate. As KFernandes mentiond, he saw a large metal gate, this could possibally be where he's speaking of. I could be wrong on the number of gates, but mabey remey wanted to really gaurd what's behind that gate(s).
Attachments:

I'm hoping one day someone with really good computer imagery skills can transpose the original construction blueprints into a computer generated 3D tour of the Remeum - as it looked in its prime. Along with 3D cutaway imagery showing the inner structure as it still is today. Ground penetrating radar might also be a fun and non-intrusive method of gathering information.

Whats that show? History Detectives or something?

Sounds like part of an upcoming documentary.

John B.

Had a great conversation on the phone with Brody Levesque last night.

Brody, you are very much appreciated by many of us here! You have become our unofficial researcher and archivist. I am hoping to be back in Fairfax by the end of August, so I will digitize the books we discussed and get them to you so you can continue your quest and feed us more morsels!

If anyone (especially k.fernandes) has info, please contact Brody. He has been very discreet with discussions I have had with him and he keeps me in the loop on new information. Every week, new information is providing the pieces of the puzzle that was Charles Mason Remey, and especially for us, the Remeum...

I haven't had time to read through the entire thread yet so I won't waste time here by repeating what's probably already been said about the Remey Crypt. My recollection from when I was there in the late 70s and early 1980 was that the place looked like it had been sacked more than once, and there was no sign of multiple levels. But it may be that some of the place had already been blocked off by then. I went in there a few times to film things for a project some friends and I were working on our senior year (spring 1980); unfortunately, none of the footage we shot in there developed.

Okay, I went through the thread last night and, just like when I went to the crypts years ago and did a little research on the place at the Fairfax library's Virginia room in the 90s, I always come back to the same questions:

First, if the place was as spectacular as it is described, why is it so hard to track down any photographs of it taken before demolition work was done?

Second, what made it more of a target for vandalism than other churches, cemeteries, etc. in the area?

And if it was such a draw for vandals that the church wanted to get rid of the place, why did they then do such a bad demolition job? By the time I was going in there it had been five years since Remey's timeline to vacate had expired and all we had to do to get in the place was crawl through a very exposed entrance, and some of the people in this thread indicate they were still getting in a decade after that. You'd think people who wanted to end the trespassing would have done something more than they did in this case.

By the way, I'm sure I read something in the Virginia room that said no bodies were ever interred in the Remey Tomb, because it was never completed.

David Bradley,

- We are sure there are many more photos from when it was in better shape, but those people would be at least 60 years old, still have the pictures, and looking for this topic on the internet. Hopefully, they will trickle in...

- It was more of a target because in the '50's and 60's, that area was still all farmland and Fairfax County had a small force compared to today. The Remeum was in the woods, isolated from view of any roads.

- Pohick Church was still recovering financially in the 70's, so they couldn't afford a proper demolition.

- There were remains of the Remey family interred in the Remeum, including CMR's wife. They were removed prior to the 1973 demolition.

- The Remeums structure was completed. Charles Mason Remey was still having cosmetic things finished, and then wanted to start the second phase, a Bahai Temple erected on the underground portion of the Remeum. This is what caused the uproar from Pohick Church and started the legal battles between the church and CMR.

WASHINGTON DC

AUGUST 13th, 2011

Re: David Bradley's questions regarding Remeum.

Dear Mr. Bradley,

I'd like to take an opportunity to answer your questions & statements on a line by line basis.

You asked: "First, if the place was as spectacular as it is described, why is it so hard to track down any photographs of it taken before demolition work was done?"

My staff and I have been researching this subject- the Remeum- for nearly a year and one of the discouraging aspects in terms of documentation regarding this project has been the utter lack of photographic evidence of not only the construction phase, but ultimately the final design execution.

I also need to note that the demolition was actually done over a nearly 10 year period of time and in phases if you will. In the first phase, the outer courtyard & gardens were demolished, the rubble being shoved into the down-slope area to the south and west from the obelisk. (Towards the direction of the Lower Potomac Sewage & Water Treatment facility.)

The next phase would have removal of the inner atrium's walls courtyard, and main entrance which would have left the hole that the kids utilised as seen in the pictures contained here on this thread.

The final phase, which was carried out in 1983 by Shirley Contracting Corporation that built what is now the mounded terrain that you find today.

You then asked: "Second, what made it more of a target for vandalism than other churches, cemeteries, etc. in the area? "

This is the basis for the urban legend itself. Which was prompted by the word of mouth stories over the period of 1968 through to 1983. The other critical factor was its isolated location off what was still a largely rural landscape until the early 1980's when the housing tracts around the parish expanded greatly and rapidly.

As far as the various incomplete demolitions? Money. Pure & simple, the initial demolition work was carried out by parishioners & associates who quite obviously did the work "on the cheap" as it were. The final demolition in 1983 by Shirley Contracting actually incurred a significant cost for the parish.

The remains were removed in 1968 and in 1969 by Remey's brother-in-law, Admiral John R. Wadleigh at the request of Mason Remey and in accordance with the terms of the federal court settlement between Remey and the parish. Including Remey's late spouse who was relocated to the parish cemetery, there were 15 additional remains removed and reinterred in a Mason family plot in Pompey, New York.

Your overall questions are still quite valid sir- particularly why no-one stopped the vandalism. Then too, there remains the central question; "Why did Mason Remey build the Remeum in the first place?"

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2011 11:38AM by Brody Levesque.

Thanks Mr. Levesque, I appreciate your response.

There is aerial photography of the county from 1937, 1943 and 1957. 1943 has only partial coverage, but if 1943 covers Pohick Church it likely would include imagery during construction. If someone wants to spend some bucks they might find it. It's 2ft resolution so there won't be much detail, but it may confirm the extents of the tomb. Link to Fairfax GIS:

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/maps/county/pricelist2009.pdf

I mentioned somewhere in the wayback posts here I visited Pohick church some time in the 90's and spent about an hour hanging out with a caretaker, talking about the church in general, and eventually the rumored hidden tomb. I don't come off like the type who is going to run out and dig it up, so he gave me a few vague bits of info. After telling me "it's all still down there, we just buried it" he said one person was specifically NOT removed, which is why they still consider it a burial site to be respected as such. Several years later I learned the one left behind was someone named Gertrude (not knowing who Remey was at the time, this was pre-Internets). I bring this up because it has been mentioned that she was re-interred at Pohick prior to demolition. Now that we know the demolition was far from complete, has anyone verified she has a spot in the graveyard?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2011 03:12PM by William Howard Taft.

WASHINGTON DC

August 26th

re: "Now that we know the demolition was far from complete, has anyone verified she has a spot in the graveyard?"

Dear Mr. Taft,

The answer is an absolute and qualified yes. If you view page number six of this ongoing saga here on this FFU thread, Steve Seman has provided a picture of her gravesite which is marked by the plaque that originally was embedded in the wall behind her sarcophagus in the Remeum.

When Admiral Wadleigh removed the family remains, he had Mrs. Remey's reinterred in the Pohick Church's parish graveyard. The Admiral also had a bench that was originally located in the Remeum's reflection courtyard gardens moved to a spot a few feet down the hillside from Mrs. Remey's grave adjacent to the cemetery's access road.

I trust this answers your question.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2011 11:20PM by Brody Levesque.

Please, please folks. Its as if the teacher left the classroom, and all productivity went right out the door. Please do not destroy this extremely important venue of communication like the vandels of the Remeum. Reading an arguement is a huge turnoff after reading 6 pages of amazingly unknown, and undiscussed historical events.

Please class..................shhhhhhh.

These are photos of Charles Mason Remey's Sarcophagus. It is still in the Remeum. It weighs 30 Tons and was sculpted in Portugal...
Attachments:

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but if you go to http://www.historicaerials.com/ and enter the church address you can see images from as far back as 1962. It really give perspective on the size of the thing, and you can see it decay over the years.

Once I heard that Shirly Contracting had done the final stage of the demo-work in '83, I used some of my connections in the construction industry to see if there was anyone at Shirley Contracting who had been involved in the work. After a couple of phone calls, I learned that there's no one with the company that has been there that long. I thought it was worth a shot though.

WASHINGTON DC

August 29th, 2011

Dear Mr. Sculler,

Unfortunately I encountered the same difficulties although a resourceful person at CLARK construction inc., which is now the parent company as it had acquired Shirley Contracting inc., was able to track down the demolitions expert that I traveled to Baltimore to interview.

I am fairly convinced that he was in fact the very last person to lay eyes on the entire complex just prior to the final 'burial' slash demo.

I am still gathering oral and written stories from anyone who had participated in the "activities" aka: party at the crypts- at the Remeum with particular interest in speaking to anyone who had gained entrance prior to 1968.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

E-mail: theroadtraveler@gmail.com
phone: 202 556 0877

Thanks, Brody. If you've already mentioned that you'd tracked down Clark Constr. from what used to be Shirley Contracting earlier is this thread, I apologize for turning over the same rocks you've already looked under. It's just that once I saw that you mentioned Shirley I got excited that I might be of some assistance since I have contacts there. Keep up the good work, thanks again for all the help.

WASHINGTON

August 30th, 2011

Dear Mr. Sculler,

By all means keeping turning those rocks over please!

It's entirely possible that you may encounter a person, say a back-hoe operator or Grad-All operator, even a dump truck driver- who participated in the reburial efforts 28 years ago, who might have information regarding that job.

Every little bit helps, seriously. In all due probability- anyone of those construction types may have even crawled down into the Remeum, just out of human curiosity, and witnessed what the demolitions expert saw.

Hence, another set of eyes to document what that person witnessed... you never know eh?

Thanks for your willingness to research- it is VERY greatly appreciated.

Best Regards,


Brody Levesque
BL Freelance News Services LLC
Washington D. C.
202 556 0877


Post Script: I nearly forgot, Mr. Fivestroke, I have contacted the county to see if they have any aerials prior to 1962. In particular during the period 1939 to 1948 when the bulk of the underground was constructed. Thank you for your contributions as well. ~ Brody



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2011 11:22AM by Brody Levesque.

Brody Levesque Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Mr. Taft,
>
> The answer is an absolute and qualified yes. If
> you view page number six of this ongoing saga here
> on this FFU thread, Steve Seman has provided a
> picture of her gravesite which is marked by the
> plaque that originally was embedded in the wall
> behind her sarcophagus in the Remeum.

That does answer my question, thank you. The mystery of if and who (if there is one) will just have to be answered in time. I hold to the statement that I was definitely told *someone* was left inside and that it was a burial site not just a remnant, just wasn't told who it was.

The idea that the "someone" might have been a person named Gertrude was purely my own conclusion. Many years ago shortly after high school I read quite a few of the old "hand typed" interview transcripts cataloged in the Prince William County Virginiana Room, it may be where I originally found her name. I very rarely visited Fairfax library, so most of my local knowledge came from the collections in PWC and Leesburg.

What I *think* I remember but am not certain of is that he might have mentioned it was a real mess down there (this was not a formal conversation). I say that because I've always had a very clear idea in the back of my head long before finding this forum that the Remeum had been ransacked, and that they may not have been able to identify some of the found remains.

Thanks again for all this research you're doing, and to everyone else throwing in! This is a local legend I've been interested in for decades.

I was a student at Annandale High School from 1969 to 1972.In 1970 I went with a few friends to the crypt because we had heard all kinds of wild stories about it being out in the woods and scary as hell.Being teens and afraid of nothing we went out there one weekend night to see for ourselves.We parked down the street from the church and walked down to a road that went into the woods.There was a house off to the left that we were told was the church caretakers so we quietly went down an overgrown pathway until we reached the crypt itself.We were able to get over the wall close to the iron gates and once inside found a massive courtyard that contained many statues and marble figurines.At the right end of the courtyard was a wall with 2 huge marble lions guarding the entrance to the tomb itself.One of the lions was as if asleep while the other looked wide awake and looking right at us! I will never forget those lions!!
A hole had already been knocked in the brick wall so the 6 of us lowered ourselves into the crypt.We only had one flashlight between us and I remember seeing alot of debris along with a few broken statues and what looked like marble coffins.In one of the rooms was what looked like a child's marble coffin with a sleeping angel as the top.
The crypt was the creepiest place I have ever seen and I was glad to get outside to the fresh air again.It was a place I have never forgotten and a story I have told quite a few times over the years.Very sad to hear that it has been covered over.It would have made a fortune as tourist attraction.

In case any of you are planning a visit

http://www.weatherforyou.com/reports/index.php?country=us&state=va&pands=wxnbh982520&from=wxnbh

I found this listing in a simple Google search. Remey Tomb, Virginia, United States. As if "Remey Tomb" were a town or some spot of touristy interest. I thought that was kind of funny/sad. There is actually even a slot to review "Remey Tomb" on Google Places.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2011 07:44PM by William Howard Taft.

That 30 ton marble sarcophagus must have been a MONSTER to move into that underground area and set it up. Three 10 ton pieces or thereabouts. And I believe I am right that it stayed behind --- he never retrieved it, it was buried along with all of the other statuary, right? None of that expensive statuary was removed before the crypt reverted to the church? Anyone know when those photos of the sarcophagus being carved in Lisbon were taken? i.e. during what decade -- 50's?

Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2011 12:37AM by brentp.

Some time ago I went metal detecting around this place.
The most interesting thing I found was what must have been the latreen the workers set up. It was the remains of a ditch and I pulled maybe 60 cents worth of wheat back pennies out. My thoughts were that the workes didn't drop their pants all the way down when pooping and the fell into the hole.
Before any of you "at home sick from school" punks respond with a dumb remark, they didn't smell of poo. I didn't taste them either

I know I took pictures in the 70's. Finding them could be the hard thing.

I wonder if Pohick Church would be interested in selling the property on which the crypt sits. It seems a reasonable solution to their problem of trespassers on the property and in this depressed economy,money in the church's pocket.

hell, if i had the money, i'd build a crypt eerily similar to terracentre and make people pay admission, so far it seems like people would pay just to go there. id get rich off of that little scheme

WASHINGTON DC

SEPT 8th 2011

Re: Pictures of CMR's Sarcophagus; "Anyone know when those photos of the sarcophagus being carved in Lisbon were taken?"

Dear Brent,

According to the U. S. Customs records and the paperwork that Mason Remey self-published in which there were details regarding his sarcophagus, it was installed in the Remeum sometime in 1954. There are as of yet, no references to dating photographs of the sarcophagus in Remey's records that have been researched thus far.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

Brent and Brody, My recollection from visting the crypts in the early 80's (I'm the guy holding the flashlight in the newspaper article) is that all of the art work was already substantially damaged prior to the demolition. I can't imagine there was any artwork left that would be worth the huge expense involved in moving it. I'd hate to see the bill for moving that 30 ton sarcophagus. From reading this thread and the articles I gather no one, not even his family, really cared about documenting the Remey legacy in this monumental way. With all due respect to Admiral Remey's service, his stature is appropriately honored and remembered in Arlington Cemetery. I suspect something as collossal as the Remeum would be a source of embarrasement for him, especially in it's state today. All I can think of is that perhaps the guilt of inherited wealth along with some kooky outlooks on life and death are what drove Charles Mason Remey to build something like this. Remey was a weird, eccentric guy.




brentp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That 30 ton marble sarcophagus must have been a
> MONSTER to move into that underground area and set
> it up. Three 10 ton pieces or thereabouts. And I
> believe I am right that it stayed behind --- he
> never retrieved it, it was buried along with all
> of the other statuary, right? None of that
> expensive statuary was removed before the crypt
> reverted to the church? Anyone know when those
> photos of the sarcophagus being carved in Lisbon
> were taken? i.e. during what decade -- 50's?
>
> Thanks

WASHINGTON DC

September 8th, 2011

Dear Gentle folks,

I need to take another moment of your time and gently remind you that the Truro Pohick Parish will indeed prosecute any individual found trespassing on the parish property outside of the recognised public areas of the sanctuary, graveyard, and church yard directly adjacent to the church building itself.

While it may be possible at some future point to petition the vestry to grant a legitimised archaeological exploration of the Remeum for historic records and purposes- it must be noted that any trespass by individuals without parish permission would spoil if not quash any potential approval by the vestry.

The truth is, that at this point, outside of the sole remaining structural evidence of the Remeum's existence which is the obelisk, there is insufficient grounds to tramp around the property for strictly sight-seeing purposes.

I have made an approach to the responsible parish officials to grant my access, accompanied by a parish representative, to the ridge that the Remeum sits on for the purpose of doing a detailed photographic survey, the results of which I shall publish here sharing with all of you.

Note: To Mr. Maverick1- please feel free to call or write me as I'd be quite interested in interviewing you regarding your recollections of your visit to the Remeum as documented in that newspaper article. Thank you.


Sincerely,


Brody Levesque
202 556 0877
theroadtraveler@gmail.com

I'm curious Brody,what has been the Parish reaction to all of the renewed interest in the Remeum.Did they approve your photography request? I am in the process of trying to locate photos I took of the Remeum on an afternoon trip in the spring of 1971.Most were of the interior of the courtyard and the statues.Most were in very good shape at that time.As soon as I locate the pictures I will post them.

WASHINGTON DC

September 9th, 2011

Re: "Brody,what has been the Parish reaction to all of the renewed interest in the Remeum"

Dear Mr. Gordon,

I've communicated with a church official whose reaction was polite, tinged with some curiosity, and hesitation regarding my request specifically and as such I am awaiting approval.

Generally, the parish would not be inclined to find themselves in a participatory role as far as the Remeum is concerned. Granted, there are those members of the parish vestry who would be satisfied if the matter remain, pardon the pun, 'buried.'

This is in keeping with the pressure brought to bear on the church by the county of Fairfax's elected and police officials along with numerous community members during that time period 28 plus years ago to address and resolve what was deemed a 'public nuisance.' The negative factors associated with the Remeum is not something the church wants to revisit.

I in fact explained that my interest is purely in a capacity of academic research on the larger subject of Charles Mason Remey, of which, the Remeum played a significant role. I was completely transparent with the church official I spoke with, and disclosed that I was not only publicly discussing the urban legend here on the Fairfax Underground with all of you gentle folks Mr. Gordon, but researching all of the identified repositories of Mason Remey's papers.

I cannot stress enough that there is a significant historical aspect to this wonderfully complex story Mr. Gordon. Not just in terms of the "Party at the crypts" segment- but Mason Remey himself. What was once the basis for an interesting column in a print or digital format has now morphed into a book and a fascinating slice of American history with complex connections to the American nation's history.

As I once said sir earlier in this thread, Remey is like an onion, you just got peel back the layers.

Sincerely,



Brody Levesque

Alright, based on what i know about the remeum, even if it was completely excavated, it would have very little value by today's standards, lots of people have the false notion that the remeum is actually exactly the same as it was years ago, just underground, when this is infact, false.
SOME PARTS of the remeum were designed to be underground, in keeping with the traditions of crypts and creepy tombs and such, but the section that was completed and subsequently buried, likely hardly even exists anymore. clay bricks will last underground for about a hundred to a hundred and fifty years, but the mortar binding them together degrades completely after about only fifty years (underground, not on the surface). so if its already been buried for thirty years and was in sorry condition as people say it was, than it is quite likely that attemptiing to excavate the remeum would just result in a disasterous and, quite easily, lethal, cave-in. you see, when a building that has been buried caves in, while you're trying to excavate it, you basically just drop about fifteen feet and then get buried under about five feet of rubble.
The only way to safely approach the remeum would be to try and dig towards the entrance first, and then slowly remove layers of topsoil that were piled on top of it, slowly relieving the stress that has been on the structure for three decades. the stupidest, and i mean the absolute STUPIDEST thing you can do, it try to enter that building. there are two major problems with trying to enter the building. the first and most likely problem is a downward pressure collapse. a collapse from downward pressure would be caused by removing compressed soil from the entryway to allow passage into the remeum, because the building was filled in and buried, the soil INSIDE the building may have actually become a vital structural component to the building and by removing it you would increase likelyhood of a downward pressure collapse. think of it as removing the bottom slice of bread from a sandwich, everything proceeds to fall out of the sandwich.
The other type of collapse would be an upward pressure collapse, and it is slightly less likely but still has a strong possibility of occuring. if you decide to avoid the downward pressure collapse by not entering the remeum, and instead completely excavate the top first, what can happen is the structure will have been compressed downward by the weight of about a thousand tons of earth for thirty years, removing it can cause the building's columns and supports to act like a giant spring, expanding several inches due to the decreased strain, and the sudden motion can cause mortar and columns to crack and shatter, the decreased structural support caused by that sudden upward movement's damage can make the building lose enough support to no longer hold up just the weight of the ceiling, and then the ceiling comes crashing down and kills everyone inside.
Regardless of what anyone does with this new knowledge, i would recommend having the first person to enter the remium be a structural engineer or someone with building experience, to determine the safety factor of the building.
Also, the value of the crypts at this point really isnt anything other than something that looks creepy, and after being underground for so long, it may not even look creepy anymore, it may just be a mound of rubble. the only thing i can guaruantee would still be arround would be the sarcophagus, a solid marble sarcophagus like that would likely be unchanged from its appearance thirty years ago, as solid stone takes thousands of years to erode. but the value of that versus the cost of excavating, there is no comparison, excavating the remeum is, in my opinion, a waste of time

Thank you Brody for your research into such an interesting subject as the Remeum and the man who built it,Charles Mason Remey.
I stumbled upon this thread purely by accident after telling friends about the tomb and wondering if it still existed.I'm now hooked on this thread and look forward to future findings.
Good luck with your research!

I haven't found my pictures, but I found these on FB "Annandale, Va." Fun times.
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Brain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm hoping one day someone with really good
> computer imagery skills can transpose the original
> construction blueprints into a computer generated
> 3D tour of the Remeum - as it looked in its prime.

Any Google Sketchup gurus on this site?

You should be ashamed of yourselves. Curiosity is one thing, vandalizing final resting places of my family & ancestors is another. You are the exact reason the mosoleum had to be leveled & kept a semi secret. You want a thrill- go to Bunny Man bridge. Don't deface memorials to the deceased. Would you like to see pictures of some idiot mocking, destroying, and ripping apart your mother, aunt, uncles tombstOne??? Why don't I locate your families burial sites & anonymously upload a photo of my self taking a steaming shit on their graves!

Hayfield Farm Gun Club Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm hoping one day someone with really good
> > computer imagery skills can transpose the
> original
> > construction blueprints into a computer
> generated
> > 3D tour of the Remeum - as it looked in its
> prime.
>
> Any Google Sketchup gurus on this site?


I am a Google Sketchup guru. How may I help you?

Troll harder newby.

16thGen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should be ashamed of yourselves. Curiosity is
> one thing, vandalizing final resting places of my
> family & ancestors is another. You are the exact
> reason the mosoleum had to be leveled & kept a
> semi secret. You want a thrill- go to Bunny Man
> bridge. Don't deface memorials to the deceased.
> Would you like to see pictures of some idiot
> mocking, destroying, and ripping apart your
> mother, aunt, uncles tombstOne??? Why don't I
> locate your families burial sites & anonymously
> upload a photo of my self taking a steaming shit
> on their graves!

Man the place needs to rest all this of re opening is nonsence.Its old VA. history and was cool to go to in 60s but times have changed so much sence then let the crypts rest in peace.It will never come back as it was.RIP Crypts...PMC..

Wow, thanks for the wet blanket. If you have any other useless and grammatically incorrect contributions you'd like to make, PMC (or is it "Debby Downer"?), please feel free to take your complete lack of sense of adventure somewhere else.

When is the last date that anyone actually visited the site? As far as i can tell the last time was shortly after they posted the no trespassing signs about a year ago or so?

Would love to see if all the rain water and flooding we have had recently has not done something to the hole or the mound.

HEY FUCK FACE MAYBE YOU SHOULD FIND OUT WHO AND WHAT PMC IS BEFOR YOU RUN YOUR FAGOT MOUTH PUNK....

WASHINGTON D.C.

September 24th, 2011

Re: "When is the last date that anyone actually visited the site?"

Dear SootEnTye,

As I stated before, the church official I spoke with last month relayed with crystal clarity that should anyone be caught trespassing- on the Remeum's site- the church will seek full arrest & prosecution.

I have been informed that my request to visit the site, accompanied by a parish representative has been denied and that the current Rector gave a rather emphatic "no" in his declining my request.

Now, as to the second part of your question, the Remeum was constructed under the crest of the higher of two ridges that transit the Pohick parish property- the church sits astride the lower ridge nearest to old Colchester road and U. S. highway One.

Flooding and run-off would therefore not affect the property and as nature has reforested and reclaimed that ridge top, there's most likely negligible damages to the mound and the area.

I would ask, that everyone here be patient as I am hoping that the Rector will relent and allow me access along with a professional videographer so that it is possible to document the site as it appears today.

If there suddenly becomes a nuisance factor created by unauthorised visits to the site, most likely, I imagine that myself or other researchers will continue to be denied access to the grounds.


Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

PMC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HEY FUCK FACE MAYBE YOU SHOULD FIND OUT WHO AND
> WHAT PMC IS BEFOR YOU RUN YOUR FAGOT MOUTH
> PUNK....


PMC? Something gay and having to do with a kiddy bike club?

You see "PMC" you have NO power or strength here and probably did not even when you were running with the other costumed fags in "PMC", so go fuck yourself and stop being a dick for no reason...or maybe you are just a dick in general?

I will call your bluff anytime --- make sure to wear your costume and ride your tricycle.

If people want to talk about the crypt, or ANYTHING else for that matter, they can and there is NOTHING you can do about it, period. You have NO SAY in what others discuss or are interested in, in fact, you are actually more like a void of life = NOTHING. They find the crypt interesting and want to know more about it, if you do not like it then do not read it you ignorant cunt.

Now, go get on your scooter and join up with the other guys in costumes and ride around to fail at looking cool - have fun with all that "attention whore" shit...that is why your scooter has loud pipes right?

Real men do not need to be:

Attention whores
Wearing costumes
Riding scooters
Pretending to be tuff'
In a gay a club

We are just MEN, not wanna-be fucking piss-ants like yourself.

postpoppunk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PMC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HEY FUCK FACE MAYBE YOU SHOULD FIND OUT WHO AND
> > WHAT PMC IS BEFOR YOU RUN YOUR FAGOT MOUTH
> > PUNK....
>
>
> PMC? Something gay and having to do with a kiddy
> bike club?
>
> You see "PMC" you have NO power or strength here
> and probably did not even when you were running
> with the other costumed fags in "PMC", so go fuck
> yourself and stop being a dick for no reason...or
> maybe you are just a dick in general?
>
> I will call your bluff anytime --- make sure to
> wear your costume and ride your tricycle.
>
> If people want to talk about the crypt, or
> ANYTHING else for that matter, they can and there
> is NOTHING you can do about it, period. You have
> NO SAY in what others discuss or are interested
> in, in fact, you are actually more like a void of
> life = NOTHING. They find the crypt interesting
> and want to know more about it, if you do not like
> it then do not read it you ignorant cunt.
>
> Now, go get on your scooter and join up with the
> other guys in costumes and ride around to fail at
> looking cool - have fun with all that "attention
> whore" shit...that is why your scooter has loud
> pipes right?
>
> Real men do not need to be:
>
> Attention whores
> Wearing costumes
> Riding scooters
> Pretending to be tuff'
> In a gay a club
>
> We are just MEN, not wanna-be fucking piss-ants
> like yourself.


fucking love it...well said

honestly, pmc has my support to write his opinion on
here just as anyone else...but the "big bad bully" shit
shows what a useless piece of humanity you
really are pmc...just let the 70's go man...we live in a
different world now...not that the previous generations
did anything much good to each other...lol

Eugene Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hayfield Farm Gun Club Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Brain Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I'm hoping one day someone with really good
> > > computer imagery skills can transpose the
> > original
> > > construction blueprints into a computer
> > generated
> > > 3D tour of the Remeum - as it looked in its
> > prime.
> >
> > Any Google Sketchup gurus on this site?
>
>
> I am a Google Sketchup guru. How may I help you?

Brain,

Build me a model of the Remeum in Google Sketchup.

HFGC

P.S. Did you used to work for Booz-Allen, Brain?

Fantastic discussion, brings back memories.

Like others, my buddies and I spent time trying to find access to the rumored lower levels. So the drawings posted here indicate that the cinder block wall (or two block walls with dirt in between) was in fact the blocked passage into the remainder of crypt. In hindsight it seems this would have been relatively easy to bust through and dig out the dirt fill; wish we had tried. Anyway, why would this wall have been built at the back of the entrance chamber and not at the first entrance, the one with the pile of dirt and stone that we all had to climb over?

Dear Mr. Levesque,

Thank you for your continued effort and update that is sincerely appreciated amidst... the rest. Please continue with your work and keep us apprised.

WASHINGTON D.C.

September 26th, 2011

Re: "Why would this wall have been built at the back of the entrance chamber and not at the first entrance, the one with the pile of dirt and stone that we all had to climb over?"

Dear LB1981,

From what information I have been able to put together, the more valuable sculptures and works of art were located further back. There had been some acts of vandalism in the entrance area, although not a scale comparable to those which were to occur after 1974 up until the point that the Pohick parish buried the complex completely.

Perhaps Admiral Wadleigh felt that if access to the rest of the Remeum was blocked, damages would be contained. Of course, this also begs the question why no effort was made to spare the valuable art work, sculptures, and other significant artifacts by simply having them removed.

Fortunately, a family member has been located who has agreed to an interview, and I am hopeful that some of these persistent questions regarding events without substantiation one way or the other can finally be answered.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

Hi Brody I mentioned I have access to someone who may be able to use an underground radar, Of course that would require church permission. I was told by this person that it would probably show the part of the crypts that were behind the cinderblock. Also, here is someone from Alabama, that has access to a satellite which, well, look at the one minute link and you can see where I am going with this. Start drooling! Perhap a phone call from you and she could answer all our questions and you may not need church permission for what she does!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13518143

Well, its been many years since I thought about this place. Ran across this thread and it brought back a lot of memories. I live outside of Richmond. Back in 70, 71, we we rode our ratty Harley choppers up to DC to see attend some otdoor Allman Brothers type of music event. Can't even remember where that was, outside, drank, smoked, etc. We were on our way back and stopped at a roadside honky tonk. A biker type in the bar named Smokey said we had to go by the "Crypt" since we were in the neighborhood. That bar may have been the one Donna Dixon's dad owned cause I rember our bikes were parked right on the edge of the road and traffic seemed to be about a foot away from my front tire. We found the place following Smokey's directions and were able to pull up close to the front. It was pretty trippy (back then) with a few choppers and Hondas and cars parked all over. Lots of "squares" who told us we should go downstairs where the "other guys' were. Saw the casket stuff, candles, lanterns, young kids drunk, high, and being kids, etc. Went downstairs and there were some bikers who didn't make any big impression on us. No "Hells Angels" stuff. A couple of guys with vests and patches. Smoked some weed, had a couple of beers, and that was about it. Pretty much couldnt wait to get out of there and get back on the road to home. Wish I could tell you that it was all that, but I pretty much saw the whole lay out and you guys have covered it more than I can remember. Hope you find what you are looking for, what ever that may be.

Folks- This is rather long-winded, so feel free to skip it.

I was turned onto this thread by a friend. I'll offer what little info I have, hoping it may add some color to what Mr. Levesque and the rest of you are assembling. I grew up in Woodbridge, having moved there from out-of-state in 1963. In those days, Lorton was considered a part of our "neighborhood", since we had to drive to Springfield or Alexandria to do any significant shopping or dining. Although we weren't a religious family; my father was, and became a vestryman at Pohick. I'm not sure when he did so, but my earliest recollection of the church goes back to shortly after we moved to town, so I would say it was the mid to late-sixties. As such, Dad certainly would have known about the crypt and probably been involved in some of the later decisions made (as much of what I've read refers to the Vestry being responsible...). I do know that I heard the name of the Bahai Faith around the dinner table when I was way too young to understand or care about such things, but I don't think the crypt was mentioned. My parents wisely (and accurately) probably realized I would have run-off into the woods at the next church picnic looking for it. I did not learn about it until the early seventies, and then it was from friends in high school. I remember we tried to find it once, but our info was incorrect, and we just wandered around the graveyard for awhile searching for it until being chased off by the cops. I never found it, although I wish I had. Mr. Levesque is correct; even in the seventies it was still a pretty rural locale, and the police were spread thing in the area with much higher priorities. Of everyone I knew that went and was caught, I never heard of any arrests.My brother may have first-hand info, as he was considerably older and could drive during those years. I'll check and get him to post if he does. For obvious reasons I never asked my Dad about it (Hey, Dad, can you tell me where the entrance to the big party is?).

It does not surprise me that Pohick is not (and apparently never was)comfortable with the presence of the Remeum. My father was close friends with the Rector at the time, Reverend Jones. I remember him as a no-nonsense cleric who, if my recollection is correct, would probably have abhorred the very thought of a monument to another faith on church property. Set against the backdrop of the significance of Truro Parish in the early history of the Episcople Church in this country, and Pohick's venerable part in that history, their reaction is to be expected; although unfortunate for it's close-mindedness. Perhaps if Mr. Levesque can enlist the aid of a production company from the History Channel, or Nat Geo, etc., they might be able to convince the Church to allow an excavation...then again, probably not, as that might be a little too high-profile.

My father was interred in Pohick in 1994 in what we always referred to as the "new" section. He is very close to the bench and headstone for Gertrude in the pictures from the earlier post. In fact, I often took my mother to visit his grave and we would sit on that bench, never realizing where it came from. This poses some questions in my mind: in 1973, when Gertrude was re-interred, that portion of the cemetery would have been fairly empty (I think). Why was she left over there by herself? And why wasn't she interred where CMR would be able to "join her" at a later date. He clearly intended to do so until he lost the crypt. Perhaps he was denied burial at Pohick due to the earlier strife...

BTW- WayTooOld, you're correct; from your description the honky tonk would have been "Hillbilly Heaven", which featured many big-name country stars before they made it big. I still think it was the inspiration for the one in "The Blues Brothers", as that's how I remember it looked, and Dan Aykroyd (Dixon's husband) visited Donna's family in Lorton and probably saw the bar before it closed down...

This is an aerial photo of the Pohich Church from 1937
Attachments:

1997 Photo
Attachments:

2007 Photo
Attachments:

2009 Photo. I was last there somewhere back in 1974- 75 or earlier.
Attachments:

2007 photo of Pohick Church

Ok try it again. This is a large file and hope it post. 2007 Photo of Pohich Church.
Attachments:

this is the latest Photo 2009
Attachments:

Brody,

I never went to the crypts, but heard about it at school (LB '82). If Pohick Church ever changes their mind and let you (or anyone else) on the property, I have a friend who's wife is an archeologist. She could possibly be of assistance.

WASHINGTON D. C.

Sunday

October 30th, 2011

Dear Folks,

Please pardon my rather long absence, but work commitments seriously impaired my ability to pop round and update not to mention thank you all for continuing the excellent research assistance and of course personal histories as related to the Remeum.

So,time to catch up, first let me acknowledge Scott, Stewie0706, Demetrios T, and Rosebud/Brose for their input.

On the subject of of the new technology raised by Demetrios T. I contacted that organisation and have made a formal written request. Here's hoping I receive a positive response eh?

Stewie, I rather like the fact that you validated and verified what my staff and I, along with lead researcher Steve Seman, have long felt to be the case in terms of the position of the Truro Pohick Parish regarding the Remeum. That was the fact that the Baha'i aspects were the core to the church demanding the return of the property and Remey's withdrawal. This of course coupled with the rather large edifice he intended to erect above ground.

Rosebud/Brose- would it be possible for you to send me an unedited copy of the 1937 aerial photograph without the legend and the graphical overlay showing the 'modern' features superimposed? I'd sincerely appreciate your doing so, my e-mail is listed below. Scott, mind giving me an e-mail as ell, it would be appreciated.

Also- WaytooOld, thanks for your input as well as it adds to the colour and the story.

Folks, this story now takes up nearly 20 linear feet of research materials, countless hours at several libraries, and even some Freedom Of Information Act requests that were graciously given acquiescence by government agencies in regards to Charles Mason Remey.

I have started writing the story and as I go along I'll put up excerpts here for you to read, enjoy, and by all means, comment on.

My deepest appreciation to everyone here who has contributed, lurked, sent me e-mails, and generally kept this particular thread alive as well as thanks to Cary for his generosity in hosting the FFXU.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque
theroadtraveler@gmail.com
202 556 0877

WOW!

this has been a great read, much thanks to all especially Brody you guys are great.


I lived next to the crypts for a few years in the early nineties, there is an arial photo appearing a few times that is referenced as "used in the legal battle between Remey and Pohick church" also labeled as remey.jpg (appears to be a screen shot), my house appears in the upper left hand corner of that picture!

The horrible townhome sub-division to the southwest was not there, actually that land belonged to another church and I had been told that they were going to build a church there as well and consequently there was a building moratorium on the entire stretch of land from Colchester to the existing apartment complex to the southwest (were Melissa Brannon was snatched). I guess the (Baptist? don't recall) church with the adjacent land reconsidered and sold, what a shame.

What a great place to live for such semi-urban surroundings, I had 50 acres for my dogs to run, hunted deer rabbits, squirrels, had a stage and regularly had weekend parties with multiple bands and jambs till 4AM, and of course the crypts!

I probably went to the crypts 150 or more times over three years, everyone who came over wanted to see them there was even a path worn from my backyard to the ruins.When my friends came over if the car was there and the door wa locked they knew the next place to look was at the crypts! Lots of visitors had been in them, but at that present time there was no access and being right next door I knew better than to dig there! I spent a lot of time poking around and contemplating how I could gain entry, now after reading this I regret that I was not more aggressive. Probably for the best anyway.

Lots of my guests had been in them, but no one had ever been to the lower levels. Everyone seemed to know someone who had though. Here are a few typical comments I would get, anecdotal I know but relevant;

*there are five levels but they are sealed up, you can only access the first
*one reason they were vandalized was that there were actually jewels embedded in
walls and statuary, treasure hunt I suppose
*bikers practically lived in them
*you could get lost,or trapped and die
*bones were taken as souveniers

I have learned more in the few hours reading this thread than in my many hours spent there and hearing stories and exagerations. I have to say to anyone who is thinking of going, you will be dissapointed. There is not much there anymore it's like going to see a giant question mark and you might get arrested. This thread has been better than any trip to the crypts ever was.

I disagree with the posters who thinks the underground section is deteriorated and collapsing, you can read from Remey's own obsession with longevity how solid they were built, as well as the support for the structure that was never built. As an accomplished architect he certainly would have made the proper adjustments to his mortar so it wouls last underground, especially in a drained system.

Two million bricks, a typical house is about 10,000 of course facade so lets assume a real brick home would be say 50,000. So 40 homes worth of bricks, just wow! Theres a little perspective on the size of the thing.

Hopefully soon some photos of the lower sections will turn up.

Hello all,

I've lived in this area since the mid 80's and find this story beyond fascinating.

I read the WHOLE thread and have a question that seems obvious to me(Brody this is aimed at you).

How was Remey's bahai religion related to the Christian Pohick Church in the first place? If it wasn't, why did he even start building there on their property? If he was so rich couldn't he just buy the land or build it elsewhere to begin with?

Thanks! Oh how I wish Adventurism would trump old school religious ideals and we could excavate this wonderful treasure!

@Mr. Levesque,
Im a local high-schooler fasinated by the crypts. My Dad visited the crypts when he was my age and he tells me alot about his visits. Is there any new information to share regarding the designs? I read earlier that a company in New York can process the designs, do you know when can we see them?

Brody Levesque Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also- WaytooOld, thanks for your input as well as
> it adds to the colour and the story.

Are you British, Candian, or just pretentious?

WASHINGTON D.C.

November 13th, 2011

re: (1) How was Remey's Bahia'i religion related (2) Blueprints (3) Question regarding nationality.

Dear Folks,

A couple of items of interest to all of you. I have been granted permission to interview one of the surviving Baha'i staff who knew Remey personally along with members of the elite ruling council with whom Remey did battle after his attempt to launch his bid to succeed the deceased Shoghi Effendi, who was the Guardian and appointed head of the Bahá'í Faith from 1921 until his death in 1957.

This interview is critical as it will hopefully cast light on the events and intrigue that ended with Remey being essentially ex-communicated as a 'covenant-breaker'and his fall from grace in the global Baha'i religious community.

Which segues into Mr. Interested's question related to reference. (1) Sadly sir, and until I can be granted access to the parish records, specifically the minutes of the meetings of the vestry of the parish- for now, I can only speculate that once the church officials realised the nature and scope of Remey's proposed addition to the existing Remeum, coupled with the very obvious Baha'i chapel, they made efforts to evict him from the property, break the agreement, and then boot him out.

I suspect, but as of yet cannot prove, the Remey most likely lied by omission to the vestry of the parish in 1937 as to the true nature of the Remeum in regards to the Baha'i aspects. In context, Remey approached them with money that was in very short supply in depression era rural Fairfax County. This is difficult for residents of the modern Fairfax County to picture, beings how the very landscape itself has been so drastically altered by progress, in particular within the last 40 years.

In the most likely scenario, Remey shows up after first sending a letter of inquiry and introduction which was standard practise for that era, in a chauffeured Buick, wearing a Brooks Brothers suit, and possessing a urbane worldly air of the upper class wealthy social class of which he was firmly a member of. Now, compare this to the vestry of the 1937 Truro Pohick Church. The majority of these men were simple dairy farmers and merchants of the general store type. A living representation of the fictional Walton family from the 1970's show the Waltons. Someone like Remey would have impressed and sold them on the project especially if he promised to stroke cheques in amounts to help the parish out that there would have been no other way for them to raise that kind of capital.

I can't prove that- yet. But I am fairly positive that the parish records will bear that speculated premise out.

To jp1416, I have spoken to the architectural firm and they will commence digitisation later this month before the holiday.

And finally to In Living Colour's question, which could have given me offence but I have decided to not interpret your intent that way- to answer directly? I am indeed Canadian, raised in Ontario to be specific.

One last item, yes he was extremely wealthy but he had solid reasons for picking that particular country parish. It had a direct connection to George Fairfax, George Mason, and of course George Washington whom, along with others, were responsible for the building of the Church and were members. Remey had a very keen sense of history and especially since his own family was rather prominent, his father having served Civil War naval hero Admiral David Farragut and his maternal grandfather distantly related to the Masons of Gunston Hall, as well as being the first United States Commissioner of Patents and first Chief Justice of the State Of Iowa's Supreme Court. Remey was intent on making his family's mark and have a lasting memorial. Then too there was the Baha'i factor. I am convinced that he wanted a lasting memorial to the contributions he made to that faith, which, by the way, are fairly significant.

And so the research work goes on. My gratitude to all who continue to make this a vibrant and interesting, ongoing discussion.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

PS: For In Living Colour, here is MY family's coat of arms:



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2011 12:03AM by Brody Levesque.
Attachments:

Great stuff, and of course there will be posters who are more fascinated by such things as the alternate spellings of words. As with any learning curve, we all have our different starting points.

In your research, have you discovered much of the history of the Rt 1 area? There are brown signs periodically that designate it "Historic Route 1" and I have read other articles with great interest on this area, that describe such things as the 2 airports in the Hybla Valley area, the Dixie Pig, and the various motels and old redneck bars of this area, it seems, from the 1920's or so.

Would be interested to see what you have found about these things.

Mr. Levesque,
I'm the father of jp1416 and have shared my visits to the crypts in 1977-78. I recently found out a friend from our church, who grew up in the Del Ray area of Alexandria visited the crypts about adozen times during the late 60’s and early 70’s. My son and I are going to sit down with our friend and a couple of his pal’s who also visited the crypts during this time frame. Hopefully he will be able to produce some pictures. In the short time I was able to speak to our friend, he mentioned three levels and a very historic event that took place there.
I was wondering if you may have anything you would like to ask him? I can promise you, that you will get the honest truth from this source. My son and I are big fans of this blog and topic, no so much of the Fairfax Underground. As someone who never got past the cylinder block wall I can’t wait to hear the additional stories this new source has to offer.

There were also Kids from Falls Church High School that went to the cryptsfor an event

Hope everyone had a nice Christmas. Wandering if there is anything new here about the crepts. Brody are you still here?

WASHINGTON

December 26th, 2011

Dear Carl,

Thanks for the Christmas greetings not only for myself but on behalf of the rest of the readership of this thread.

I am still "here" albeit not yet able to update as I am still writing the first draft of the Remey Story which will need to undergo an edit.

I did have an interesting interview before the holiday with a Baha'i follower who knew Remey and several of the leadership of the faith including the wife of the head of the faith who passed away suddenly in 1957. It was his death and the ensuing "palace" intrigue and disputes among the upper echelon of the Baha'i which led to Remey's attempt to declare himself head of the faith and ultimately, led to the events that essentially rendered him an outcast, ex-communicated by the leadership as a "heretic."

More on that later. The NY architectural firm has started the process of digitising the blue-prints, although because of the fragile condition and age of the blueprints, its a slow go and they are attempting to be as careful as possible.

Finally, I got to spend a couple of hours with a former pagan Motorcycle Club member who not only remembered the crypts, but had some fascinating stories about some of the M/C club "togetherness" fests held there at the Remeum. That was a highly entertaining interview which also was very edifying as well.

Hopefully folks, I will have some spare moments this month to come back and give you excerpts from the story as well as some other info as it becomes available.

I join Carl in wishing all of you a Happy Holidays and please be safe.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

e-mail:

theroadtraveler@gmail.com

Exciting stuff. Can't wait to see these Blueprints digitized.

Wow, what a good thread. I graduated from J.E.B. Stuart in 1982 and never went to "the crypts" because back then Pohick was considered the boonies and none of my immediate friends knew how to get there. I did hear many stories about them though from people who had been there. The sarcophagus you had to stick your hand in, seen in many pics here, etc etc. The story involving the Pagans that I heard was that the one of the members knocked the head off of old Remey's statue and then later that year lost his own head in an automobile accident.

Visited this location . Rt. 1 @ Telegraph Rd. in mid 70's A stone bench at ground level with a large cross/monument and some paving stones. Entered underground portion through a cave-in or excavation . Many bronze plaques on walls in central hall . Spooky stoned experiences especially on nights of big moons.

What a great thread. What happened ,though? everything has gone dry in the last month or so. James Madison and Oakton should be added to the list of schools which the urban legend of the crypts was active. We went there numerous times in the early to mid 70s but no one seemed to know anything about Remy at that time. The word was that it was a tomb for upper eschelon members of the military which was borne out by military themes inside and out. Also ,despite numerous references to the Pagans activities there neither myself or anyone else I knew directly observed any PMC members at this location. I rescued a brother after a serious bike wreck and took him to Fx Hospital and was accepted by members as a little brother type figure .Much talk by club members ,but once again no direct observation by this author. Joined military after H. S. and lost track of all this for many years. Lived/worked in Ft, Belvoir area in mid-80s and revisited apparently after Shirley contracting demolition attempt and there was much less visible at surface. Observed recent excavation attempts at re-enrty at that time. Never encountered FXCOPD at any time ,but took care on entry /exit and parked at a distance. Also avoided entry by dirt/gravel road and caretakers house and entered from Rt. 1 further south near what must be the location of present day housing complex mentioned in this thread. One entry on this thread that caught my attention was the reported observation of statuary/structure reduced to tiny bits which the poster compared to "someone breaking up stone with sledgehammers a la prison chain gangs or something similar. I did not directly observe this , but is consistant with the effects of high explosives,which were reputed to have been utilized in at least one demolition attempt. As is the case with even contemporary reports ,especially fron non-trained sources, direct observation is frequently mixed with hearsay and the mix of legal/controlled intoxicants and youthful imagination does little to add clarity to this fascinating story. I tried calling the Brody news service but only got a recording. I wouldn't mind discussing this with him as it appears that he in employing sound research and verification methods in a well structured attempt to pull all this together. I will be monitoring this thread and look forward to discussing my experiences with Brody or other adults interested in this subject. Also interested in the Bahai angle especially any persons who had direct contact with Remy if this is even possible at this late date. A crypt, George Washington's church,the Pagans,Bahai ism
,what's next? a UFO -Ft. Belvoir/DARPA link?

WASHINGTON

February 3rd, 2011

Dear Folks,

I am still working on the story, but at this time the focus has shifted to Remey and his Baha'i work from the turn of the 19th century until the work on the Remeum commenced full time after the second war.

Also, Mr. Blake Lane 73, I can always be reached at 202 556 0877, please feel free to leave a voicemail if I don't answer or send me an e-mail to: theroadtraveler@gmail.com.

Hope everyone's winter months are passing agreeably.

Sincerely,


Brody Levesque

I keep checking back with this thread when it works it's way back to the top of the heap. I also went to LB, and visited the crypts in the 76-78 time frame, what has been said by others is certainly confirmed, and I wrote a long rememberance in this thread a long time ago.

My guess is that the simply did a better job of topping off and sealing the top of the crypts, because clearly their first attempts were rather poor. It would really be interesting if someone with the time and money, and the permission to do so, would do an escavation. With all the BS reality TV out there, surprised there isn't a Tomb Hunters show..in which case this would be an excellent subject.

blake lane 73 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a great thread. What happened ,though?
> everything has gone dry in the last month or so.
> James Madison

It's Madison Time!



Fairfaxunderground rules: Lilliputions, not ok. Midgettville ok. I got it now.

Does anyone out there in FFXUG -land remember the abandoned NIKE-AJAX
missile base in western FFXCO at about the same time- mid 70s ?
When I was last there ,all the eqpt. was gone with cable conduits remaining and impressions of where the consoles were. I researched this weapsys later and was astounded at the operational concept as I am sure most FFXCO residents would be. Since interception /guidance systems did not have the required accuracy to eliminate incoming enemy bombers, the system depended on just getting close then functioning a small nuclear warhead to eliminate the target with blast effect. This base was one of many surrounding major citiesin the U.S. A friend from the feds explored abandoned sites in the Los Angeles/Pico Rivera area in his teenhood. Can you imagine the response if it was known by the public that multiple nukes resided just below the surface of our idyllic suburban paradise? Also of note, a similar site on the grounds of the old Lorton Reformatory was donated to the Cold War Museum which was founded by the son of Francis Gary Powers , who was the pilot of the U-2 spy plane that was shot down and captured while surveilling Russian airspace. Does anyone have experience visiting any of these sites? Popes Head , Great Falls etc. or in any other metro area? Would this make a good topic for a new thread since it and the Remy crypts are the the only subjest that are/were truly UNDERGROUND ?

CORRECTION The W-31 nuke was used on NIKE-HERCULES -the next in the series.
Higher yield warheads followed for subsequent systems in the NIKE series This warhead was used at allmost all U.S. sites. Gives a whole new angle to the "Just Do IT " slogan.

Spent a few times at the Popes Head Nike site. In the early eightys all the above ground stuff was gone. Only the underground missle storage areas remained. As well as the earth berms that comprised the fueling area for the Ajax missles. Only Lorton was retrofitted for the Nuke capable Hercules missles and only half the launchers and elevators were retofitted to handle it. That is why Popes Head and Drainesville were decommisioned in 1963 and 1961. Gary Powers Jr. was unable to get the Lorton site and is opening the Cold War Museum out in Loudon County instead. Have been unable to find any overhead pictures of the Pope Head launch facility as well as the fire control site, now a county maintenance yard off Ladue Rd.

Heard about the "Crypts" when I was in High School in the 70's. Never went because a family crypt tends to be rather small, holding only a few coffins. Wish I had known then, that it was the size of a football field. Would be a site to see now with todays LED lights instead of the D cell flashlights of the 50s-80s. CMRs dream, grand vision...too bad it ended the way it did.

So much lost history in FFX County. Former military bases, airfields, roads, civil war railroad lines. All rapidly being erased from the landscape with the relentless march of subdivions, strip malls and interstate highways. At least we still have some pictures and there are a few people still alive that remember the way it "use to be". One thing you can count on is change, everyday.

I grew up near a nuke site in watchung nj, they filled the shafts with concrete.

Shaft.

That is one of the funnier words available. Kind of like master. Or hard.

Sorry, I love this thread, but when I see "shaft", I gotta jump.