Del. Dave Albo Is 100 % Correct on Illegal’s! Take on Del Albo's inititive to make it a crime in the State of Virginia if you are illegal!



What part of illegal is anyone confused with when it comes to the invasion of illegal aliens not only in the state of Virginia, but in our Nation. Del. Dave Albo gets it 100 percent when he proposes making it a crime to live in the state of Virginia unless that person is in the United States legally.



The police manpower and cost issue to enforce this initiative does not hold water at the local and state levels. I have an excellent rebuttal/analogy for this weak excuse not to enforce the law. The IRS does not have the manpower, staff, time, or resources to go after everyone that could possibly cheat on paying taxes. We self-enforce ourselves, because the penalty is so steep, so consequential, the majority of the populace pays too much tax because we are afraid of the consequences. It is the same with illegal aliens, if the penalty is so steep, the consequences so high, it will eventually solve itself with little to no effort from state and local police agencies.



The social costs are enormous! Did you know (2005, probably higher now) forty-one percent of the children enrolled in FAMIS and FAMIS Plus (Medicaid/Welfare) are Hispanic? How many are illegal or come from parents that are illegal? I would bet the majority! The county he represents has 27,984 children on Medicaid (Welfare). How many are illegal? Why do we have so many on Medicaid? The cost alone for schooling if we use the figure of 10,000 per student is 280 million dollars a year before the first free lunch! What about the other social costs to include, food, housing, WIC, and the list could go on for what we are asked to pay. Does anyone realize there is no such thing as a low paid job when you add social costs? No wonder we don’t have money for transportation and our taxes are out of control in Fairfax.

Save Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The social costs are enormous! Did you know (2005,
> probably higher now) forty-one percent of the
> children enrolled in FAMIS and FAMIS Plus
> (Medicaid/Welfare) are Hispanic? How many are
> illegal or come from parents that are illegal? I
> would bet the majority! The county he represents
> has 27,984 children on Medicaid (Welfare). How
> many are illegal? Why do we have so many on
> Medicaid? The cost alone for schooling if we use
> the figure of 10,000 per student is 280 million
> dollars a year before the first free lunch! What
> about the other social costs to include, food,
> housing, WIC, and the list could go on for what we
> are asked to pay. Does anyone realize there is no
> such thing as a low paid job when you add social
> costs? No wonder we don’t have money for
> transportation and our taxes are out of control in
> Fairfax.

You disgust me.

Do you take pride in being an American? Set in a plaque since 1903 on the foundation of the Statue of Liberty, a symbol of our great nation, are these words: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" I hope when you see the Statue of Liberty you think the same of it as you do of these people who rip your hard earned dollars from your hands.

The preamble of the Declaration of Independence, which I am sure as a great American you have heard of, says this; "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." So with that being said is it a crime that the Governments of this land feed, educate, and provide medical care for the children of the world?

I am sure you scoffed when we sent millions (billions?) of dollars for Tsunami aid right? Or is that more of the government burning your hard earned money?

Before you go off and make judgments about me let me fill you in. I am a white 18 year old who went through Fairfax County's great public school system, and now I am on my way to be 80,000 dollars in debt by earning a degree at a University. My Father served over 20 years in our military protecting you and your family so you would be able to complain about your taxes. If you lived in another part of this world and complained about your government you might never be seen again.

I want to punch you in the face.

edit by Cary: email address removed at posters request.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2006 01:28PM by Cary.

what is wrong with our country. First, I salute your father for his service to our country. As a veteran of one Gulf War and over 20 years in the service myself you need to think before you talk! Second, why don't you get an ROTC scholarship and actually do something for this country instead of complaining about $ 80,000 for your education.

Do you believe in the laws of this country? Do you believe in self-reliance or do you think the Government owes you something. It is obvious you do not believe in personal responsibilty. What is it about illegal you don't understand!

It is because of people like me that you can make your ignorant comments, because you don't have the GUTS to join the military.

Your Welcome Whimp!

Actually, the beauty of this law is that it would allow local law enforcement - those most capable of rounding up illegals - to do just that.

As it currently stands, local law enforcement is expected to enforce state laws, and local jurisdictional ordinances (county, town, city, whatever applies to where you live). They are NOT expected to enforce FEDERAL law. Currently, being in the country illegally is a federal law. Ergo, federal law enforcement is responsible for identifying and detaining said individuals.

So while passing a separate law which would make it a crime to be in Virginia if you are not in the country legally might sound redundant, it's actually brilliant in that it allows local police forces the legal authority to detain them on a state crime. Guess who gets notified when someone is detained on a state crime? Yep - the feds.

This is even more brilliant than the New Hampshire Sheriff who was arresting illegals on grounds that they were trespassing. That being that the state law defined tresspassing as along the lines of "being on property without the consent of the property's owner". Well, he just looked at "property" as "The United States of America" and "owner" as "The federal government". They didn't have permission from the federal government to be on the property of the United States of America, hence they were tresspassing.

A court threw it out.

This, though, may just work...

Minion Wrote:
> ...Set in a
> plaque since 1903 on the foundation of the Statue
> of Liberty, a symbol of our great nation, are
> these words: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your
> huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The
> wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these,
> the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp
> beside the golden door!"....
>
> The preamble of the Declaration of Independence...

> I want to punch you in the face.

What they failed to teach you in the High School was that the Declaration of Independence (and consequently the Bill of Rights) grants certain unalienable rights to citizens of the USA. Illegals aren't citizens, but as a whole, they've benefitted similarly. Likewise with the Satute of Liberty's inscription - through historical practice, those huddled masses were relatively healthy, registered (i.e. legal) immigrants looking forward to US citizenship. IF you read between the fine print of those HS history books (or did a little research) you'd find that thousands of those tired, poor, and huddled masses were turned back to the county from which they emmigrated because they were criminals, disease ridden, or otherwise undesireable.

I'm not saying kick all the illegals out - our economy clearly benefits from those that support it. However, to have a complete open door policy as Mr. Punchy here suggests is idiotic. There is clearly an ideal middle ground and while the registered worker program isn't perfect, a variation of that proposed legistlation seems in the ball park.

My heart goes out to the illegals, but the burdon on our society can't be overlooked any more. We now have a new lower class, crammed in houses and apartments, wandering the streets like vagrants, and committing crimes in record numbers.

From an admittedly more selfish perspective, the tax-payers of this country are paying for their social welfare and medical expenses while at the same time are paying more for a diminished health care of their own.

What's mind-blowing is that the laws regarding citizenship are almost completely ignored at the federal level. It's a mockery of our legal system and an awful burden on our middle and lower class citizens and I hope every Congressman up for reelection this fall that is supporting amnesty or against enforcement gets the boot.

Have you guys noticed how the whole topic about illegals evaporated from the media? Like the problem has been solved once and for all.

We didn't land on Plymouth Rock! Plymouth Rock landed on us! Who's with me? -§

Price Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you guys noticed how the whole topic about
> illegals evaporated from the media? Like the
> problem has been solved once and for all.


Yeah, everyone realized our government wasn't going to take any serious action so we took a collective sigh and will repay them in November.

We need to create a law to enforce another one?

The fact of the matter is that illegals are here illegally. If they want to live here they should apply for US citizenship. It's that simple.

Plenty of people come here legally and spend a lot of time learning the laws, memorizing the consitution and learning english.

Illegals drive with no license, no insurance, they pay no taxes, Amercian health care systems and your insurance pay for their health care.

I have no tollerance for people who break the law and then want a free ride that some US citizens don't even get.

Ask illegals if they want to pay taxes and they'll say F no!

Sort of. If we had legislation authorizing funding for enhanced border protection, it would in effect help enforce our laws.

Save Fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Del. Dave Albo Is 100 % Correct on Illegal’s!

Illegal's what? If you are going to start a sentence why not finish it?

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060803-121451-9430r.htm

Minion,
   we will allow people into the country if they come legally. there is however a limit on each nations amount of allowed immigrants per year which i have no idea if it's being maxed out. in anycase, there is a reason it is illegal. if we bring in too many people to fast from a specific country, they live in communities of their own and do not feel they do not need to change their patterns of living at all. they essencially bring the country and it's social/cutural problems they left and set down roots. i hate to say it but that is called an infection, a parasite. immigrating legally shows commitment to assimilate, especially since the entry stuff is in english and they will be paying taxes and will obey laws like the rest of us. im fine with immigration as long as it doesnt begin to faction the USA.


also, there are TENS OF MILLIONS of people in africa that would love to come to america and use our resources but cant. they are sick and dying of hunger and disease. i ask you this, would you want to bring them all over into america if they did nothing to give back to society, refused to learn english, brought a massive wave of disease or assimilate into society in any way? it's a horrible world but we cannot fix it all by bringing everyone here. countries need to be rebuilt so that they may have everything that we have in america. i mean, why do you think so many people come to the US from mexico? they have massive problem with corruption which is a cultural problem. they are bringing that culture here.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Well said!

In very simple terms; If somebody jumps over my fence, decides they are going to live in my backyard, I don't think I should be forced to support them.

you already support them, with your taxes :)

Jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In very simple terms; If somebody jumps over my
> fence, decides they are going to live in my
> backyard, I don't think I should be forced to
> support them.

But how will you mow the grass around them without hurting them? Or are you trying to say you'll hire his _legal_ countrymen to mow the grass around him? I'm having trouble with where you think you are taking this analogy. You want to pit legal latinos/hispanics against each other? Like a Fight Club thing? If cock fighting and videotaping bumfights is illegal I don't see where having legal and illegal immigrants engaging in mortal combat would.

I have a solution. For each illegal we take it from mexico or any other country we are able to deport one criminal to their country. Lets empty the jails and welfare rolls of those that wont work and spend their lives living off the workers of this country.

Given the choice I would rather have the Hispanics here who do work than the freeloaders and jailbirds who only cause trouble.

Think what a shock it would be to the crack dealers and baby makers who live for free in the U S to get to a country where you work or starve.

p.s. The Hispanics I have seen are very hard workers and most are trying to learn English, which isn't an easy language to master. That is more than I can say for the section 8 welfare cases who lay around all day waiting for another government check to come their way.

To: gesoffen

I believe the current situation with illegal immigration is a problem, but my comments were directed at the original posted complaining about the tax burden of children eating. If our unalienable rights are only for us citizens then why are we fighting wars in the name of freedom? (Not trying to bring that into the mix, just trying to say our country has it's values split. One in being a great country that offers aid and support, then another that says these rights are only for citizens) The whole situation is messed up.

To 'Personal Responsibility'

Thank you for your service, it is respected. I think that you should also respect citizens who pursue civilian life, the military is clearly not for everyone. I considered enlisting if higher education did not play out the way I wanted it to, but I was accepted into the University of my choice. My statement about being 80,000 dollars in debt was one of pride. I am happy I am going to be 80,000 dollars in debt because some places people cannot pursue an education like I can, and I am paying for it.

To Gravis:

I am aware of how legal immigration works, and by no means am I calling for open borders. I believe that the original poster complaining about his taxes paying for an illegal's child (who as he said is probably legal) food and education is not the answer. All of my comments were directed at his last paragraph. To deal with out immigration issue effectively I can only see an increase in taxes




Now lets bring in the gangbang on me! Wooo!

You have to understand a few things, if you are gonna argue about immigration.

1. Illegal immigration will never stop, as long as there are countries that are less developed than US

2. When you have millions of illegal immigrants, there is not much you can do with them, but to legalize them all at once. Can be easily done.

3. If you want people from develop countries to come here - well, dont expect them to clean your backyard and delive pizzas. That era is over.

In the future, and I am talking 10-25 years, we will see even a greater surge in immigration. There is no stopping it.

So, stop complaining about it. This country was built on immigrants. And it always be supported by them. One way or another.

Such is the reality of this country.

Minion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Save Fairfax Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The social costs are enormous! Did you know
> (2005,
> > probably higher now) forty-one percent of the
> > children enrolled in FAMIS and FAMIS Plus
> > (Medicaid/Welfare) are Hispanic? How many are
> > illegal or come from parents that are illegal?
> I
> > would bet the majority! The county he
> represents
> > has 27,984 children on Medicaid (Welfare). How
> > many are illegal? Why do we have so many on
> > Medicaid? The cost alone for schooling if we
> use
> > the figure of 10,000 per student is 280 million
> > dollars a year before the first free lunch!
> What
> > about the other social costs to include, food,
> > housing, WIC, and the list could go on for what
> we
> > are asked to pay. Does anyone realize there is
> no
> > such thing as a low paid job when you add
> social
> > costs? No wonder we don’t have money for
> > transportation and our taxes are out of control
> in
> > Fairfax.
>
> You disgust me.
>
> Do you take pride in being an American? Set in a
> plaque since 1903 on the foundation of the Statue
> of Liberty, a symbol of our great nation, are
> these words: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your
> huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The
> wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these,
> the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp
> beside the golden door!" I hope when you see the
> Statue of Liberty you think the same of it as you
> do of these people who rip your hard earned
> dollars from your hands.
>
> The preamble of the Declaration of Independence,
> which I am sure as a great American you have heard
> of, says this; "We hold these Truths to be
> self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that
> they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain
> unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,
> Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." So with
> that being said is it a crime that the Governments
> of this land feed, educate, and provide medical
> care for the children of the world?
>
> I am sure you scoffed when we sent millions
> (billions?) of dollars for Tsunami aid right? Or
> is that more of the government burning your hard
> earned money?
>
> Before you go off and make judgments about me let
> me fill you in. I am a white 18 year old who went
> through Fairfax County's great public school
> system, and now I am on my way to be 80,000
> dollars in debt by earning a degree at a
> University. My Father served over 20 years in our
> military protecting you and your family so you
> would be able to complain about your taxes. If you
> lived in another part of this world and complained
> about your government you might never be seen
> again.
>
> I want to punch you in the face.
>
> edit by Cary: email address removed at posters
> request.


Right on Brother!!!! Finally an intelligent post! You sir are definitely not a minion!!!!!

MOCKBA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have to understand a few things, if you are
> gonna argue about immigration.
>
> 1. Illegal immigration will never stop, as long as
> there are countries that are less developed than
> US
>
> 2. When you have millions of illegal immigrants,
> there is not much you can do with them, but to
> legalize them all at once. Can be easily done.
>
> 3. If you want people from develop countries to
> come here - well, dont expect them to clean your
> backyard and delive pizzas. That era is over.
>
> In the future, and I am talking 10-25 years, we
> will see even a greater surge in immigration.
> There is no stopping it.
>
> So, stop complaining about it. This country was
> built on immigrants. And it always be supported by
> them. One way or another.
>
> Such is the reality of this country.


Anothert intelligent and realistic post.

Stick a fork in it, this country is done.

Dave Albo is fucking awesome, need more polititians like him. he stood up to the shitty democrat budget too

hats off

Minion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Save Fairfax Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The social costs are enormous! Did you know
> (2005,
> > probably higher now) forty-one percent of the
> > children enrolled in FAMIS and FAMIS Plus
> > (Medicaid/Welfare) are Hispanic? How many are
> > illegal or come from parents that are illegal?
> I
> > would bet the majority! The county he
> represents
> > has 27,984 children on Medicaid (Welfare). How
> > many are illegal? Why do we have so many on
> > Medicaid? The cost alone for schooling if we
> use
> > the figure of 10,000 per student is 280 million
> > dollars a year before the first free lunch!
> What
> > about the other social costs to include, food,
> > housing, WIC, and the list could go on for what
> we
> > are asked to pay. Does anyone realize there is
> no
> > such thing as a low paid job when you add
> social
> > costs? No wonder we don’t have money for
> > transportation and our taxes are out of control
> in
> > Fairfax.
>
> You disgust me.
>
> Do you take pride in being an American? Set in a
> plaque since 1903 on the foundation of the Statue
> of Liberty, a symbol of our great nation, are
> these words: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your
> huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The
> wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these,
> the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp
> beside the golden door!" I hope when you see the
> Statue of Liberty you think the same of it as you
> do of these people who rip your hard earned
> dollars from your hands.
>
> The preamble of the Declaration of Independence,
> which I am sure as a great American you have heard
> of, says this; "We hold these Truths to be
> self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that
> they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain
> unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,
> Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." So with
> that being said is it a crime that the Governments
> of this land feed, educate, and provide medical
> care for the children of the world?
>
> I am sure you scoffed when we sent millions
> (billions?) of dollars for Tsunami aid right? Or
> is that more of the government burning your hard
> earned money?
>
> Before you go off and make judgments about me let
> me fill you in. I am a white 18 year old who went
> through Fairfax County's great public school
> system, and now I am on my way to be 80,000
> dollars in debt by earning a degree at a
> University. My Father served over 20 years in our
> military protecting you and your family so you
> would be able to complain about your taxes. If you
> lived in another part of this world and complained
> about your government you might never be seen
> again.
>
> I want to punch you in the face.
>
> edit by Cary: email address removed at posters
> request.




You are probobly a jew as well. The Declaration of Independance implyed white land owners who were prodestant. no one else. dipshit!

And yes the statute of liberty says that, but remember who we got it from. THE "SOCIAL REPUBLIC" OF FRANCE. As someone else mentioned, it referred to legal, hardworking, non criminal, and healthy immigrants.

you are proud to get 80,000 in student loans, that makes you sound all the more retarded. try nova, I got my degree there for under 6k. (full price).

While your father was 'off serving 20 years to protect America', you grew up in Fairfax County public schools, where you clearly didn't learn much, except to become the epitome (don't know the work then look it up) of fairfax county liberal. He shoulda done 15 and spent 5 raising you.

Dave Albo and 99% of all politicians suck and take big hits from the corporate dong!!!!!!!!!!!

I sure hope with his $80k degree he'll find something more fulfilling as a career than pouring coffee at Starbuck's.

An associate degree (in accounting I assume) isn't much better than a highschool degree if you really want to make it. Got get yourself an MBA and then come back and talk shit to Minion (don't know what it means look it up..geez you are so sophmoric. If he knows the meaning of minion... trust me, he knows what epitome means)

Dear The Economist22,

I am everything you hate.

Shalom,
Minion

XOXOXOXOXO

"You are probobly a jew as well. The Declaration of Independance implyed white land owners who were prodestant. no one else. dipshit!"

BTW Econ22... I'm not surprised that you are a racist! Seems like your ignorance encompasses more than just scholastics!!!!!

My degree? Actually come winters end I'll have my bachelors, so no need to discuss worthiness. The BA is just for fun to say I did it, I learned enough getting my AA and my college classes for this degree to last me 5 careers over. Couple that with my work experience, and you'd better believe I have a solid resume.

Racist? Nope, I'm not prodestant, nor am I a land owner yet. I'm white though. I do not care what you label me as. People are way too quick to label someone a racist, anti-semite, etc.

"You are probably a Jew" sounds pretty perjorative to me. BTW...it's Protestant and not prodestant ( Episcopaliate and not Episcopalian for future ref. when addressing people's religion).

do I really care?

What most of this discussion fails to realize is the practical application of enforcing this law. In order for a law enforcement officer to make an arrest he has to have probable cause that the person has committed a crime. After the arrest is made the burden of proof lies on the state to prove the crime. I am sure many of you are aware that proving the absence of something, in this case legal residency, is very difficult. The absence of ID, Social Security card, etc is not proof of a crime. I suppose many of you feel the police should go down to the local 7-11 and round up all the hispanics. Well thats wrong for many reasons. That assumes that all hispanic day laborers are illegals, which they are not. furtherome there are many other ethnic groups coming into this country undocumented that have not received the same attention. An enforcement action like that would be similar to rounding up all blacks for drug charges, all asians for bad driving, etc. Law enforcement is based on actions and behaviors, not an ethnic or racial stereotype!

It is nice to see more and more intelligent people on this site like you fd. This is not an Orwellian state where police go around and demand people's i.d.
Standind outside a 7-11 is not sufficient probable cause to check for permanent residency. However if we are not careful, future neocons may get their way (especially if this website is a litmus of the ignorant minions out there).

What most of this discussion fails to realize is the practical application of enforcing this law.

fd, good points. The only real effective way to enforce such a law would be for police to use Gestapo-like tactics; storm into a neighborhood and round-up whoever appears to be illegal, detain them until they can prove otherwise, and ship out the ones who can't. It'd be disastrous. It's an invite for police abuse and human-rights violations, not to mention the logistical nightmares involved with trying to find prison space for everyone they've caught. It wouldn't work.

I was just thinking earlier today about how until a few years ago we never lived in a society that stopped people to check "papers", without propable cause. That included on the road.

Now, we have sobriety checkpoints that don't catch drunk drivers to add to the list of legal "paper checkings". Latino immigrants are also forced to show proof that they are here legally, without having done anything else wrong.

RES...WOW!!!! I'm impressed w/ enlightened view on the situation. You are truly right the dwi checkpoimt is a violation of rights against illegal search and siezures. If you are down the road in an appropriate manner ( i.e. not speeding, reckless driving etc.) what reason do they have to stop none? None, it's technically unwarrented. It's just that back in the 80's MADD had such a strong lobby, that the supreme court, congress/senate, and the general public saw it as a means to a greater end. That is the invasion of our privacy/rights by being stopped at a check point was only a minor inconvenience/infrigement when compared to the greater good/safety that would result from keeping drunk drivers off the streets (i.e. less fatalities,less toll on society). They do the same thin now w/ the random searches on the metro in the name of preventing terrorism). It won't completely stop terrorism, just like the checkpoints didn't eradicate drunkdriving. However if you really aren't doing anythin wrong, why would you mind the minor inconvenience when compared to the greater good? I don't...but the problem is, how far will they go and when will they stop?

FrancoB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is nice to see more and more intelligent people
> on this site like you fd. This is not an Orwellian
> state where police go around and demand people's
> i.d.
> Standind outside a 7-11 is not sufficient probable
> cause to check for permanent residency. However if
> we are not careful, future neocons may get their
> way (especially if this website is a litmus of the
> ignorant minions out there).


BTW Loitering is crime that would warrant presentation of i.d. (probable cause), however it is hard to prove since the employee @711 would have to call in the first place (and is probably a former immigrant who empathizes w/ his situation).

This is a manufactured crisis. The FedGov has not bothered to enforce our border so the predictable result of that is 20 million people who are not supposed to be here.

Now, we hear talk about "national ID cards" and all sorts of other window-dressing which does little to address the real problem: The FedGov is abdicating it's responsibility to protect the border (but they do, however, have time to go after Manassas for trying to enforce an overcrowding ordinance).

Now we hear talk about how we need a "guest worker" program but gee, why bother with that if the border is going to be the same porous sieve it's been since the last amnesty 20 years ago?

I bet we have more cops doing DWI checkpoints at any given moment than we do Border Patrol agents watching the border.

Also, I wonder how many illegals have gotten charged with DWI multiple times before they get deported. I've seen a few newspaper stories like that lately.

How broken is a system where someone can show up to court on a DWI charge, not legally in this country, and not get deported?

Probably because ICE wouldn't pick that person up. That's something they don't want to do. Recall the vanload of illegal aliens that was picked up in Ohio driving the wrong way. ICE said, "We aren't going to come get them. Let them go.".

What the hell is wrong with a society that won't even enforce it's own laws? Does such a society deserve to continue to exist?

Definitely a manufactured crisis. We let any cuban who touches soil stay legally but turn away haitians. Why? because we hate Castro/communism and support Haiti's dicatator and launder his money (Riggs bank)

brian, I agree, but I am afraid I don't get your greater point, which I probably also agree with...

why bother with that if the border is going to be the same porous sieve

Sealing the border is a no-brainer IMO. It doesn't need to be some giant wall, our military has alot of practice with policing borders in other countries, why shouldn't that be done right here?

We also need to enact measures that will get to the root of the problem- the reason people come here in the first place. Start levying large fines against companies who employee an illegal alien. Make it a felony to privately hire a "day-worker" illegal alien. Force states to implement policies and procedures that make it impossible for an illegal alien to receive social benefits, drivers licenses, etc.

Once the American Dream is dead for them, maybe they won't want to stay here.

I find it ironic that many of the conservatives harping about immigrants are the same ones who defend gun ownership by saying it is part of "what america was built on".

Immigrants are part of what america was built on, too. Many of those immigrants carried guns in our wars.

for the record I am pro-gun and pro-immigrant.

1. Capitalism relies on the cheapest possible labor; if a capitalist nation didn't have illiegal immigrants it would be in its best IMMEDIATE interest to create them; ICE and CBP management under this administration are not interested in addressing the problem and thus fucking big business and the economy - these agencies are a Beware of Dog Sign so that native-born citizens can remain asleep and feeling somehow secure that their children will have a society similar to the one in which they grew up.

2. The U.S represents 5% of the world population and is the number one destination for the world's migrants; "developed" nations represent maybe 12% of the world's population (a way positive estimate); safe to say that members of the remaining 88% have at least considered immigrating to the U.S. and most have only simple labor skills - I hope Minion is prepared to pay for them in a society demanding these skills, but relying on them less and less as technology marches forward.

3. This country was built on immigrants without question - though when you've been playing poker all night and winning the whole time, but then start losing, what do you do? You cash in your chips and get the hell out of there before you lose it all back and then some.

4. This country has always been multi-ethnic, BUT uni-cultural; in the past mom learned how to bake apple pie, pops embraced the latest machinery and violent sport, and the kids played baseball in the street and grooved on the latest musical genre; the only multi-ethnic, multi-cultural nation in the modern era has been the former Soviet Union - and, communist idealogy aside, we saw how well that worked out.

5. Legend has it that Babylonians woke up one morning and realized that the members of their population spoke so many different languages that they could no longer communicate effectively enough to continue that society's success.

6. There is no fix, NONE. Western Civilization had a good run - this is where I would ask Phil to promote the benefits of gun ownership because within the next few hundred years there will likely be open racial warfare in the streets, probably beginning over water rights...

7. Life is lovely - buy land in Alaska.

The Federal government doesn't seal the border because the major political contributors (that like cheap labor) don't want them to.

One thing that is totally false is that illegals don't pay taxes. The day laborers are more visible, but the vast majority of illegals work for companies that withhold federal, state, FICA taxes from their paychecks....just like you and me. In fact, a lot of illegals who are entitled to tax refunds don't file for them for any number of reasons.

While I'm sure the taxes they pay don't cover the social costs they incur (healthcare, schools, etc).....but as a group, illegals pay billions of $$$ in taxes.

As for my point, I'm not sure what it is. Maybe that our current crop of politicians are whores, whether they whore under the Republican label or they whore under the Democrat label.

As far as illegals and taxes, you know that form you fill out when you first get a job, the one where you specify how many allowances/exemptions you're supposed to get? The W4 form? The one right here? http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf

You can put *ANY* number of allowances/exemptions on that form you want. The main reason most people don't is that the IRS starts penalizing you if you owe them too much money for too many years in a row.

But, if you're illegal and not planning to file a tax return anyway..why not claim 10 exemptions? Hell, the more you claim, the less tax they withhold...

I learned all about this when I screwed up on the form and accidentally claimed an extra exemption/allowance. I couldn't figure out why I kept owing the IRS a lot (like over $1000) of money every tax season till I realized what happened. In December I filed another W4 with my employer, this time specifying additional money to withhold so I wouldn't owe money when I filed taxes for that year.

In January I filed a corrected W4 specifying the correct number of exemptions and no extra withholding.

But the point is, if an illegal doesn't wanna pay taxes, he don't have to if he knows how to work the system. And believe me, they do. If they spent half as much time improving themselves and their home countries as they do working the system here--we would all be much better off.

can we have an immigration board as part of this forum?
This is less and less fairfax related, yet the topic is interesting.

Cary?

Part of the American dream is to live long and die young. Only those Americans who are willing to die for their country are fit to live.

- General Douglas MacArthur

but won't join the military, does not mine taking my money but not his to support his marxist, socilist views. Andrew, why don't you move to Cuba to get your education and free health care. Castro needs you! Isn't interesting how the right at this time are the only ones standing for Israel in the entire world, but I would bet Andrew Bare would not vote for a Republican or join the military to fight the Fascist Islamic terrorists in the world and then accuse others on this board of hate. Very sick and disturbed 18 year old. There is a term you need to understand, "Lead By Example". Yes Andrew you are the reflection of a "COWARD". Live it, sleep it and remember this everytime you look in the mirror.

http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/snieg_conc1.htm

who the fuck in Andrew?! btw, dont believe everything you read.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

come on folks, while companies will tell the illegal workers they are with holding for taxes that money will never make it to the government. The workers get about eight bucks an hour and three of the eight is supposed to go to taxes. The companies just pocket the three dollars.

They cant report it to the government because the workers are illegal. They have no social security number to report it to.
True they dont mind saying it is for taxes, that is what they tell the workers, but it is just more profit for the company.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it ironic that many of the conservatives
> harping about immigrants are the same ones who
> defend gun ownership by saying it is part of "what
> america was built on".
>
> Immigrants are part of what america was built on,
> too. Many of those immigrants carried guns in our
> wars.


Ok. Thats alright. All people harping on immigrants must now use the word mexican/asian when discussing the negativley-thought-of people that are coming into this country legally or not.


The people that carried guns in our wars were not nececarily mexican or asian, which are the 2 groups of immigrants we not like. THe peole who were coming into this country between 1870-1940 were mostly not mexican or asian. They were mostly European, which I have no problem with.

why dont you like asians?

cause they are smarter than you ? :)))

The majority of illegals do not pay taxes from their employment because they're off the books! That's the whole fucking point. Why would the employer risk hiring an illegal (though clearly not much of a risk) and then pursue only half the deal - just saving themselves money by paying peanuts? Leaving them off the books means paying no taxes on them, eliminating a paper trail that could burn them, and dissolving them of any of the other myriad legal responsibilities like healthcare...

Works for the illegal too because in sanctuary/safe haven cities like San Francisco where the public benefit provider is not allowed to ask about legal status they get the max amount of hand-outs because they can claim 'unemployed.'

That's why we have the illegal problem - because it's a win-win (for employer and employee). How we lose is that ultimately shear numbers and birthrates will dillute the cultural identity and inherent characteristics of morality and responsibity to society that made this country great.

And here's the shocker, the reason underdeveloped countries suck (despotism, corruption, injustice, starvation, child labor/prostitution) is because their people suck. The people ARE the country... And soon we'll have all those wonderful things here, in much greater numbers than we do already.

heh

how unfortunate, that we cant get any people from DEVELOPED countries to come here

Ted Kennedy's 1965 immigration bill favored immigration from third-world countries.

"the reason underdeveloped countries suck (despotism, corruption, injustice, starvation, child labor/prostitution) is because their people suck"

No, you're lying, Karl Rove told me that all of those Mexicans are good family values oriented people who would vote Republican!

(oh, they also work really cheap but just ignore that, ok?)

not really
some of them pull off some nice hourly rates.

stop hoping that this cheap immigrant labor is gonna be around forever
it wont

Believe me, as soon as they (1) get amnesty or (2) figure out that they can sue for their employer, they'll get expensive.

sue their employer, that is.

nah

they simply control the market, and dictate their rates.

service industry = their favorite field

That is true. They have this tendency to use a machete on people they think are invading their turf.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RESton Peace Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I find it ironic that many of the conservatives
> > harping about immigrants are the same ones who
> > defend gun ownership by saying it is part of
> "what
> > america was built on".
> >
> > Immigrants are part of what america was built
> on,
> > too. Many of those immigrants carried guns in
> our
> > wars.
>
>
> Ok. Thats alright. All people harping on
> immigrants must now use the word mexican/asian
> when discussing the negativley-thought-of people
> that are coming into this country legally or not.
>
>
> The people that carried guns in our wars were not
> nececarily mexican or asian, which are the 2
> groups of immigrants we not like. THe peole who
> were coming into this country between 1870-1940
> were mostly not mexican or asian. They were mostly
> European, which I have no problem with.


I like how KOT keeps maintaining he's not a xenophobe

Is one still a xenophobe if they are not afraid of other cultures, but instead are disgusted by them?

Keepontruckin, I appreciate you being calm, but I must say your reply made you just sound racist.

You said directly that you only have a problem with non-europeans immigrating. How is that not racist? You are stating your believed supremacy of one nationality of people over another,,,

Every other country in the world is filled with people who believe in the supremacy of their nationality over another.

That may be true, but those people are all racists whether they are aware of it or not...

Plus that does not speak to my point so what was yours?

brianl703 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is one still a xenophobe if they are not afraid of
> other cultures, but instead are disgusted by them?


Sounds pretty racist if you ask me... Brian and KOT should go start a KKK chapter togeher. I am also appalled by the fact that KOT works for FCPS.

KOT wrote: ... were mostly not mexican or asian. They were mostly
> European, which I have no problem with.


How is that not racist??

Xenophobe, racist, nationalist.

Here's a link that might help:

http://www.m-w.com

Hint: Those words aren't synonyms.

Incidentally, how DID we get so screwed up as a nation that we believe that anyone who thinks out country is better than any other is akin to racism?

Stick another fork in it. It's really, really done.

Rephrase:

we believe that anyone who thinks our country is better than any other is engaging in racism?

I don't see KOT's comments as "nationalist", dude. He is saying that a group of nations that happen to be majority white should be allowed to send people here, and all the countries he has a problem with are NOT majority white-skinned.

That's pretty RACIST. Not xenophobic or nationalistic.

I feel it is FINE to believe your nation is better than all others, that's ok.

It's when you start making policies that include some foreigners and exclude others, that I have a problem...if one truly believes this country is superior, then would that person agree that ALL immigration should be banned?

Depends on what his reasons are, doesn't it?

If, for example, he simply doesn't like latin culture, I guess that would make him xenophobic, not racist. (And actually, I'm not even sure that xenophobic would be the correct term).

You could argue that it is racism, but guess what--if his reason is one of culture, you're now suggesting a correlation between race and culture, which is what....

...RACIST.

I think immigration should be curtailed or restricted because I do not believe that we have the infrastructure required to adequately support 1+ million new people every year.

I also believe that other countries should address those problems that they have which cause their people to want to leave. Mexico is a prime example of this--thanks to the USA, they have been able to avoid much-needed reforms for far too long. The USA has been acting as a pressure relief valve for Mexico.

In addition, this sort of immigration leads to people who are here but don't really want to be. They're here for a job and little else.

"They're here for a job and little else."


Actually that's probably 90% of the people in NoVA, come to think of it...

1. I am fully aware I am a racist, Brian. No denial here. Most of the people who post here at least hold racist beliefs of some sort or another.

But KOT seems to be vehemently denying he is racist on one hand, and then making racist comments on the other..

2. Clearly you care far more about this issue than I do, Brian, and I am not kidding. Kudos on your strong defense. I'm going to get stoned in your honor.

Oh and if you registered your name, Brian, you could EDIT like am doing, and you wouldn't have to post four comments in a row.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2006 06:40PM by RESton Peace.

brianl703 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Depends on what his reasons are, doesn't it?
>
> If, for example, he simply doesn't like latin
> culture, I guess that would make him xenophobic,
> not racist. (And actually, I'm not even sure that
> xenophobic would be the correct term).
>
> You could argue that it is racism, but guess
> what--if his reason is one of culture, you're now
> suggesting a correlation between race and culture,
> which is what....
>
> ...RACIST.



I don't give a damn if we have loads of black people or loads of brownish skinned people. I don't care if they are Caucasion, Black, or Pacific Islander or People From the Other Side of the Earth. [FCPS race choices include Asian as a race choice. Since I don't like Asians who drive poorly or Mexicans who are freeloading on my tax dollars, I am going to call them people from the other side of the earth. I think Asian is a group of people and PFTOSOTE are a race.] Therefore I am not racist.

Xenophobe is a term for people that are afraid of other races. I'm not afraid of any race or group of people (yet-10 years from now...)

I like the above example. I simply don't like (not hate) Asians who drive poorly or Mexicans who are freeloading on my tax dollars. I dont hate all Asians [not the race, the group of people] or all Mexicans.


Therefore, I AM NOT RACIST.


2nd Edit to add: Take that RESton Peace.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2006 06:49PM by KeepOnTruckin.

That was just too goddamned funny, keep that shit coming

Oh and watch me take it, keepontruckin, watch me take
it

that's all I got, sorry

Meeper. that looks like one of those white spanish newgirls.

I'm watching you take it RESton. Up the ass.

Meep that was funny as hell... Brian u don't know shit.. u and kot r both racist, xenophobic, elitists. National pride is one thing, ur bs is another.

BTW do u dislike spanish white girls, or r they ok because they look like u?

My dad is white and speaks spanish... is he ok?

Do you mean Spanish or Latin-American? They're two completely different things.

What about Martin Sheen (real name Martin Estevez)? is he ok 2?

pardon me Ramon Gerardo Antonio Estevez. (Wikipedia)

he changed his name inorder to make it in Hollywood at the time, because it was full of KOT and Brian like elitists

KOT, I have no doubt you could watch a guy give it to another guy up the ass ALL night. No doubt at all.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you mean Spanish or Latin-American? They're
> two completely different things.


Don't go there bro... Latin-American relates to culture. We are as multi ethnis as the u.s. We are white, black, indian, and even asian. We have Spanish, Italian, French, German, and indian (indigenous) blood running through are veins. My dad is white my mom a little olive toned. Spanish relates toa nationality as in Spain. In addition, Hispanic is derived from the geographic
name Hispania that the Romans gave to the whole Iberian peninsula. Therefore Hispanic does not apply as term for race. Latin-Americans are either black,white,mestizo,mulatto, or indian.

Therefore Hispanic does not apply as term for race.

I never said or implied that, I know the proper terminology.

Spanish= people from the country of Spain
Latin-American= people from the countries of Latin-America

"Hispanic" is just some auntiquated term that has no clear meaning, and I didn't use that in my post.