i c ur point!! I'm sorry, there is just so much ignorance on this site.

i c ur point!! I'm sorry, there is just so much ignorance on this site.


IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

I might not know shit, but I do know that a country that doesn't protect it's borders isn't a country.

It's more like a flophouse. And a swap meet.

That's what the USA is..the world's flophouse and swapmeet.

Makes me proud!

Incidentally, you ought to read about how Mexico treats THEIR illegal aliens.

Re: Del. Dave Albo Is 100 % Correct on Illegal’s!
Posted by: brianl703 (IP Logged)
Date: August 04, 2006 11:02PM


I might not know shit



u got that right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alright, tell me where I'm wrong.

Otherwise, it's just mindless namecalling.

Speaking of white Spanish (or Hispanic, or Latino, or whatever term you prefer), it's interesting to flip past Telemundo and see the bleach blondes on the telenovelas.

I prefer to add a dash of racism and say "spicspanic".

Just a dash.

"We let any cuban who touches soil stay legally but turn away haitians"

Well, as a matter of fact, as far as I'm aware it is ONLY Cubans that get such treatment.

The Haitians get the same treatment as citizens of any other country besides Cuba, so why bring them up specifically? It's not as though they are being singled out.

I'm waiting for the boycott of Proctor and Gamble for making a product called Spic 'n' Span....

it's interesting to flip past Telemundo and see the bleach blondes on the telenovelas.

Yeah man, there are some total hotties on Telemundo. I don't speak a word of spanish but the channel's still worth checking out.

The least they could do is have English captions or an English subtitle.

Telemundo, last time I checked, doesn't even have Spanish captions. I guess deaf people need not watch it.

I meant English second audio program, not subtitle.

Maybe I should register so I can edit my posts??

Nahh.

>The least they could do is have English captions or an English subtitle.

Totally unnecesary, who cares what they say, they're hot and don't speak a word of english.

FrancoB just couldn't help seizing an opportunity to cum in his own mouth over semantics...

A great american named John Winger once said: We're all very different people. We're not Watusi, we're not Spartans, we're Americans. With a capital "A", huh? And you know what that means? Do you? That means that our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We're the underdog. We're mutts."

So all the bulldogs from England, the shepherds from germany, the poodles from France the MILLIONS of scruffy wolfhounds from Ireland and especially the Chihuahuas from MExico, especially the sexy lady Chihuahuas should be allowed in, converted from illegals to legals and allowed to watch as many bill murray movies as they LIKE, GOD BLESS AMERICA!

brianl703 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "We let any cuban who touches soil stay legally
> but turn away haitians"
>
> Well, as a matter of fact, as far as I'm aware it
> is ONLY Cubans that get such treatment.
>
That's my entire point nimrod!!!!!!!!

> The Haitians get the same treatment as citizens of
> any other country besides Cuba, so why bring them
> up specifically? It's not as though they are being
> singled out.

I mentioned Haiti as an example because of its close proximity to Cuba, and the fact that they have had an oppressive dictator there but are denied political asylum, unlike Cubans. It's a u.s. diplomacy double standard.

Fine. Write your Congressman and bitch.

I'll only point out that there is a system in place for refugees to apply for political asylum.

The system that is in place is a joke because of skewed U.S. foreign policy. The reason immigration is such a problem is because this gov't is a slave to big corporations who want cheaper labor inorder to lower their bottom line. Until we stop cutting corporations and the rich big tax breaks, immigration and depleted social programs like Social Security and Medicare will continue being a problem. Tax these rich fucks and go after the ones that use illegal labor.
America needs to stop being a corporate bitch!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. It is a fact that under Clinton, more businesses were prosecuted for immigration/labor violations than under Bush.

I view it this way:

The Democrats want the easy votes.

The Republicans want the cheap labor.

Whores, both of them.

Look at Elian Gonzalez. The Clinton adminstration and Janet Reno sent his ass back even though it meant pissing off the Cuban American populace. It was political suicide for the Democrats, because I'm sure they all kept it in mind when they went to the polls in the 2000 (Poor Al Gore! I heard he enjoys sailing around the world more than being President!).

The statistics I'm aware of say that Cuban Americans tend to be more conservative than other minority groups, so their may not have been much support for Clinton in that group anyway.

It's obvious that they are conservative because they came here during the Reagan administration and got the hook up. Old Cuban-Americans and Reagan had the same enemy in common, Castro. However the newer generation is far more centered towards the middle of the political spectrum. In the future their votes in Florida will be up for grabs and no longer a GOP lock. Thats' why I think the democrats really screwed themselves, because the old timers won't forget that until they die because of their hatred for Castro. 501 or so cuban-american votes could have given Florida and the presidency to Gore.

The wet foot/dry foot policy for Cubans is a holdover from the Cold War in that it's about fleeing communism, even if really just for economic reasons like all other migration.

As the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere migration from Haiti is categorically economic, especially given that their current chief of state was freely elected earlier this year.

No double standard in U.S. policy towards migrants from these two nations exists. And stupidly enough the U.S. still approves high numbers of baseless asylum claims from Haiti - they just need to get their asses on U.S. soil first.

bullshit ur full of shit

Cubans are good baseball players and a delicious sammich packaged in one. Their cigars are overrated. Che Che (Guevara) Chia Pet. -§

Che Che (Guevara) Chia Pet

Che Guevara was from Herndon, not Cuba. I agree about the cigars though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2006 05:16PM by TheMeeper.

Yes, but he was also a citizen of Cuba who helped lead the Cuban revolution. -§

I pray to god all y'all are just kidding about the great Che.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara was Argentinian actually. He had just graduated from med school and decided to go on a pan american cross continent motorcycle trip. He logged all his experiences on the trip in a diary that later became the Motorcycle Diaries, a jack keruac [sp] on the road sort of book. It was during this trip, seeing all the poor and destitute indigenous/indians that he decided to become a revolutionary and help rid the americas of the dictatorships that were in place after Spanish colonization, much like Simon Bolivar did a century before. He was murdered by the Bolivian army at the behest of the CIA (Crminals In Action). You can rent the movie at your local Blockbuster or read the book. I suggest both.

Motorcycle Diaries

I really enjoyed that book. The movie was OK, but disappointing.

Just so you know:

The MAIN reason why we have so many Mexican illegals is because it is the one country where the State Department quota for application for citizenship is oversubscribed.

We don't have a problem with Canada. Not that many Canadians want citizenship that badly.

It's an economics problem. Supply vs. Demand.
Either we figure out how to adjust our Supply properly, or we figure out why the Demand is so high. Better yet: we tackle it from both sides.

1) Implement a temporary/migrant worker program to provide a middle ground between undocumented and citizens (which may be what a large portion illegals are really shooting for)

2) Up the quotas ceilings for Central American immigrants per annum. Also, allow for continous processing instead of the quarterly application deadlines.

3) Put more effort into curtailing professional smuggling operations (preventing future mass immigration) as opposed to trying to track individual illegals who are already here.

4) Get Mexican authorities to similarly crack down on the their end of criminal immigration enterprises. And to give them any excuse for us to help people's lives in their own country so that they are less inclined to leave (aid, organizational support, whatever).

5) Crack down on US business who hire workers under the table. I hate to mention Unions... but there I said it! Unions can help create a self-policing workforce in service related industries.

What are you? Runnin' for Dickhead? That little summary shows no insight into the crisis whatsoever. It's as if your talking about a similar issue occurring on another planet...

1. Guest/temporary workers would not go home at the end of their official stay - they'd just be illegal from that time on.

2. Up quotas? Unless you upped it to encompass every single person, there would be a negligible effect if any on illegal migration from Central America - where there is work offered at ten times the local pay and nothing stopping them, there'll be illegal migration.

3. More effort? What the fuck do you think they're doing!?! CBP and ICE are understaffed and mismanaged, and will remain so as long as the presidency is run by the Big Business Power Elite (see #5).

4. Get Mexican authorities to do anything!?! Money sent back by migrants represents the second greatest source of income for Mexico. Vicente Fox tells us to our fucking face that we should eliminate the border. And all the Federales make huge money from ripping off migrants, securing drug loads, etc. - What would be their motivation to further fuck themselves and their countrymen?

5. Crack down on U.S. businesses? And watch them go out of business! That's the whole point - a capitalist society by definition is dependent on cheap labor. And since we weakened the productivity of our own work force years ago by catering to unions and other liberal feelgood measures, all we got now is those poor saps to exploit... God bless 'em and let's keep 'em illegal so we can continue to exploit them - for our own sake.

1) True. The goal of such a program, however, is to seperate illegal aliens into two pools: a) Those that participate in the program, that we can track b) and those we can't track. If we were going to up citizenship application quotas you would prioritize applications by considering those who participated in a temporary work program over those that didn't; right off the bat you know they'd be more likely to pay taxes and all that good stuff.

2) Yeah, that's a problem. But then we don't have any data that shows how it would affect the decision making process of an alien wishing to enter the country (just the PROSPECT of an increased chance at citizenship may increase the time a person would be willing to wait on a waiting list for an official channel than to chance an illegal crossing). It's something worth looking at.
At the very least they need to ditch the quarterly application deadlines. It doesn't make any sense and just wastes staff hours at the State Department.

3) Actually CBP and ICE staffing is not the issue.
The issue is the INS divisions of the Federal Courts being horribly overburdened. We release some absurd percentage of the captured illegal aliens because we can't process them fast enough. So what makes you think increasing CBP/ICE staffing is going to help the situation any?
If CBP/ICE were to reallocate resources into _specifically_ preventing criminal enterprises from ferrying illegals it could be much more effective years down the line.

4) That's the current situation. It fucking sucks. We need to figure out what initial steps we can through (trade, diplomacy, force) affect Mexico and get it closer to parity. This means replacing anyone in power with people that are global-corporate friendly. Puppet government, like Iraq. Who cares? Once international business gets in on the ground floor, it stands to gain two things: 1) cheap labor, 2) a foothold into central and south america.
Let China start buying Mexican debt. There's a higher rate of return on it.

Anyway it's going to take some kinda "friendly guidance" on our part to get that set up.

5) Do keep in mind that the free market has never been a smart way to set labor rates. The price of a person's time or skill is too subjective and person-specific. You can't go work at Pizza Hut and haggle your salary with the franchise manager. A very select class of workers can do this (those that are price makers), like lawyers or computer professionals.
A large portion of the unemployed (mostly teenagers) would rather not work at all than work a job that illegals take at a market rate (whether its by stigma or that they just value their time more).

So I'm not suggesting that we take every lawn care operation and turn it into a union shop.

What I am suggesting is that in localities with large illegal immigrant populations, giving unions more power locally will artificially increase the cost basis of labor. This has two benefits:

1) It'd increase the market value of non-union labor, which increases the incentive for the willful unemployed to compete for jobs with illegal immigrants.

2) It'd decrease the incentive for illegal immigrants to stay, because the job pool would shrink, and the cost of living would increase.

And it wouldn't affect the livelihood of salaried professionals or those who are price-makers.

A brilliant dissertation - I hope they make you King of the Econ Grad Students. Too bad reality is immune to that pap... And if you're not aware that INS hasn't existed for over three years, I'm unlikely to trust your judgement on optimum staffing for two of its three replacement agencies. More officers to staff more detention facilities, increase secondary examinations of applicants for admission, and be able to actually show up when local law enforcement comes across a van full of illegals is the obvious first step if the Feds were honest about wanting to crack down... And sure that's just addressing the symptoms of the problem, but capitalism is designed to fuck the little guy or force him to innovate, thereby fueling competition and advancing productivity - all the hippies on all the quads of all the ivory towers in the world aren't gonna change that shit. Good luck though, and when you finally nail it down make sure you submit to your professor en espanol.

...And if you're not aware that INS hasn't existed for over three years

I know that. I work for DHS on the SBI, dipshit.
I forgot the name of the DOJ that processes immigrants. It used to be the INS division, and the same people work there now as they did then (since the Federal Courts didn't get re-arranged).

Building detention centers is a waste of time. All of the propsed solutions (increased enforcement, guards, patrols, whatever) only serve to treat symptoms, and not the problem.

It is an economic problem. It may take a little more than "free market lol" to fix it. It's going to take the State and Commerce Dept getting off its collective ass and figuring out how to better posture itself w.r.t. trade and aid in Central/South America before we see a real stem to the tide.

Shaking up labor markets in hot spots can help locally. Giving organized labor more power is one way to drive up unskilled labor cost and the cost of living. It's pretty simple. It won't affect me or you either, unless you're a fan-fucking-fantastic carpenter or plumber, which I doubt you are.

Also "capitalism" isn't designed to do jack shit.
Capitalism means "I can do whatever I want to with my pile". And it doesn't mean you'll do the right thing, either. You could just hold onto it forever and fuck everybody else, including yourself.
You're thinking of free market theory. Don't confuse the two.
Free markets only work if information is perfect and you don't have emotional considerations about things, which abjectly false and particularly problematic in labor markets, which is the main issue here.

The problem boiled down is:
Mexican workers are a commodity. Americans don't see THEMSELVES as commodity workers. They all want to be special.

And the free market attracts the illegals and the federales get fat on kickbacks.

You think putting more beds in a detention center is going to fix that? Christ.

Wow, I think you're all a bunch of losers. This discussion is easily the most retarded tripe I've ever read on the internet. Both sides sound like pompous assholes.

1. For making lists
2. For telling us where they work, as if that makes them an authority
3. For not considering the other side's view may be pertinent
4. For responding with lists
5. For talking this long and thinking this long about something and sitting on your hands when it's time to act.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2006 06:52AM by RESton Peace.

Oooooohhh, DHS employee huh? That gives you all kinds of credibility...

1) I
2) like
3) to
4) make
5) lists
And it's not at DHS, it's for DHS. For all you know I could be a window washer.
Attachments:

interesting picture... but what you dont see is that the horse bites off her face. see, someone does lose.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

no

is stil around?