http://m.washingtonpost.com/local/education/parking-lots-an-example-of-fairfax-schools-economic-gap/2013/11/16/43caf8e2-4f19-11e3-9890-a1e0997fb0c0_story.html

We just need to subsidize purchase of cars for these disadvantaged students.

All kids within a 3 mile radius of school should walk. The rest should take public transport. This fear of walking thing is unreal. Have you ever been to Europe?

Gerry Connolly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We just need to subsidize purchase of cars for
> these disadvantaged students.


I hadn't heard that the county discontinued bus service for students, what a shame.

Why do we pay for school buses? Get on the bus you little fuckers, rich or poor.

Why not index the cost of parking to the percentage of students on Free/Reduced price lunch? Make the max cost $400 instead of 200. Students from Langley will pay 400 and students from Mt Vernon will pay 50. Appropriate discounts for the students on free/reduced price lunch.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not index the cost of parking to the
> percentage of students on Free/Reduced price
> lunch? Make the max cost $400 instead of 200.
> Students from Langley will pay 400 and students
> from Mt Vernon will pay 50. Appropriate discounts
> for the students on free/reduced price lunch.

Most poor students can't even afford a car. At least biking or walking is healthy, but not good for fundraising purposes.

Well Falls Church High School sold 68 parking spaces. The kids should pay $200 dollars if they wanted a parking spot. There no way a kid should have a free Parking space. I am all for Free lunches but I don't agree with a free parking sport or reduce parking spot for those kids.


If they would of
At Falls Church, where 57 percent of the students qualify for subsidized meals, the administration sold 68 of 120 parking spaces as of Oct. 15. Because some of the spaces are subsidized, the parking fees brought in about $1,600 to the school.

Modem Kabel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why not index the cost of parking to the
> > percentage of students on Free/Reduced price
> > lunch? Make the max cost $400 instead of 200.
> > Students from Langley will pay 400 and students
> > from Mt Vernon will pay 50. Appropriate
> discounts
> > for the students on free/reduced price lunch.
>
> Most poor students can't even afford a car. At
> least biking or walking is healthy, but not good
> for fundraising purposes.

The WaPo article sounded like they want redistribution of the parking funds to the lower income schools. Where have I heard this before...?

This is just the beginning. Redistribution of booster club donations is next. Watch what that does. This whole discussion must have evolved from the turf fields mess. They will be looking at everything. Apparently in their look they caught the principal of Poe for embezzlement (a good thing).

The top dogs are looking at the schools'spending closely. But who is looking at central office and how they are spending money? Since central administrators are looking at the schools, I think that there should be a teacher committee looking at central office advising them on whether certain functions and related spending are necessary or not (the SB doesn't do this). You will NEVER hear about any misdeeds and wasteful spending in central office. Who is watching the watchers? Oh, yeah, it's an auditor that they hired (and who gave them an award for being great).

ch ch ch change Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is just the beginning. Redistribution of
> booster club donations is next. Watch what that
> does. This whole discussion must have evolved
> from the turf fields mess. They will be looking
> at everything. Apparently in their look they
> caught the principal of Poe for embezzlement (a
> good thing).

I agree with you. This appears to be the trend in education. In DC they are talking about eliminating neighborhood schools to make things more equitable.

ch ch ch change Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is just the beginning. Redistribution of
> booster club donations is next.

It already is.

If your family is on welfare parking is free, limited amount of spaces but still free.

They have to provide a discounted parking fee to the Free and Reduced kids. All school fees have to be offered at a discounted rate. It is a state law. They don't have a choice on that. The schools can get reimbursed for the discounts from a central fund. This doesn't apply to fancy extras like expensive trips. It applies to class fees, uniform fees, parking and Driver's Ed fees, etc.

The problem is that poor people don't tend to have cars for teenagers to drive to school to leave in a parking lot all day. NOT the public's problem.

We should offer needy children's parents a tax credit for purchasing a used car and a voucher system for insurance. Marshall high school automotive technical school could do the maintenance for free.

You ARE joking about the tax credit and insurance voucher system, aren't you? Draw the line SOMEwhere. We already subsidize loans for people to buy houses that they then have to foreclose on, have to fight to get people evicted from rentals because they have rights, etc. Why is it I have to pay MY bills but other people don't?

How CAN you give a tax credit when a lot of these people aren't paying any taxes either because they are broke or illegal?

You ARE joking about the tax credit and insurance voucher system, aren't you? Draw the line SOMEwhere. We already subsidize loans for people to buy houses that they then have to foreclose on, have to fight to get people evicted from rentals because they have rights, etc. Why is it I have to pay MY bills but other people don't?

How CAN you give a tax credit when a lot of these people aren't paying any taxes either because they are broke or illegal?

And you point is? Nothing

Plenty of rich people in the area that can chip in a bit. They are the ones that created such a expensive area for the lower working class. Higher taxes wont hurt them any bit.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ch ch ch change Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is just the beginning. Redistribution of
> > booster club donations is next.
>
> It already is.


Redistributing athletic booster and PTSA funds will be a lot tougher than band/orchestra funds. But it's coming. Being done under the guise of "financial accountability." But it is really all controlling private money and ultimately redistributing it.

There is only one answer and that is the government needs to provide cars and parking money for low income students.

newgatedenizen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill.N. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ch ch ch change Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > This is just the beginning. Redistribution
> of
> > > booster club donations is next.
> >
> > It already is.
>
>
> Redistributing athletic booster and PTSA funds
> will be a lot tougher than band/orchestra funds.
> But it's coming. Being done under the guise of
> "financial accountability." But it is really all
> controlling private money and ultimately
> redistributing it.

Its been happening for a while. An alum that does well cant come back to the school and say I want to give you 50k to upgrade the baseball or football stadium. They have to give the money to the athletic department who spreads the funds across all sports, which of course means they get no money at all and have to pay for the upgrades on their own.

It makes absolutely no sense. When youre always complaining about not having enough money common sense says you take free money when people offer it to you.

Overtime all sports or most sports would get similar donations and the money saved on those expenses could be used to help the ones that didnt. Thats makes to much sense though

Band and Orchestra money isn't private money. The fees the kids pay for the classes is public money. Only the school system can determine and assess a fee for a class, and the management of that is public record. Any excess has to be returned to the individual students, unless being held for long-term purchases in a Reserve account. The records are totally open. If you are questioning the management of the funds, ask to see the records. Anybody can. Sure beats what one Booster club was doing-refusing to release public records, skimming thousands of dollars of surplus cash off of public school transactions they were allowed to process money for instead of returning it to families, lying to parents, putting out fake and incomplete records to cover it up, etc. I'm not making this up. This is where it all came from.

Booster clubs don't have the right to determine fees for classes. It is in flagrant violation of state public educational laws. Booster clubs don't have the technical capability of handling government records according to the state laws that are in place. The records have to be maintained on a government system or something equivalent, which is generally not feasible for a Mom and Pop organization. The information on Free and Reduced kids is only supposed to be released to staff, with specific permission, and volunteers don't count. If you don't like this, put your kid in private school or discuss it with your legislator. The Fine Arts programs are also receiving appropriated funds. $750,000 this year. That is also public money.

Music Booster groups are still totally free to raise private funds that are actually private funds.


So, we were talking about cars. I think not having a car is a great incentive to work hard in school, get a job, and buy one, instead of expecting other people to buy a car for you. That's what I did.

Old lady. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We should offer needy children's parents a tax
> credit for purchasing a used car and a voucher
> system for insurance. Marshall high school
> automotive technical school could do the
> maintenance for free.

Something should be offered to those families who are responsible enough for the kids they bring into the world without expecting others to clothe, house and feed them, let alone buy cars for the little bastards.

How about valet parking and weekly detailing for the good kids? The poor kids car park their jalopies in the far lot and wash their own damn cars.

A true repuklican speaking. Fuck the poor and give to the rich. You should be ashamed of yourself.

WTF. They can get a job, buy a cheap car, and pay the $200.

It's not that hard to save up $2 - 3k for a car and $200 for a pass.

You can work 20 hours a week while you're in school, and full time during the summer to save up cash.

Not when slave owners pay minimum wage turd.

Gerry Connolly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We just need to subsidize purchase of cars for
> these disadvantaged students.


Gerry, I fully agree with you. But, this might be the only time that you'll ever see that happen. In addition to subsidizing the purchase of the car, I think offering a free tank of gas per week -- along with the free breakfast and lunch meals would be great, too.

Oh, how should we pay for this? Just raise the taxes. I think the rates that were in effect before Ronald Reagan revamped the tax system is something we should go back to. I loved when there were about 10 tax brackets and the highest tax rate was 50%. If this were the case, then we'd get rid of those knucklehead actors - Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, George Clooney, Janine Garfalo and the rest of the actors that keep threatening to leave the U.S.

I say good riddance to them. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

P.S. - Joy Behar can go along with them, too. Loud, obnoxious, non-talented, wanna-be comedian, ex-View gabber, etc. and all the rest of the crap she's done. Be gone!

started from the bottom | drake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WTF. They can get a job, buy a cheap car, and pay
> the $200.
>
> It's not that hard to save up $2 - 3k for a car
> and $200 for a pass.
>
> You can work 20 hours a week while you're in
> school, and full time during the summer to save up
> cash.

Wait a minute, that's going to cut into their video game playing and rap music making time. You know they are all "aspiring rappers".

Old lady. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A true repuklican speaking. Fuck the poor and give
> to the rich. You should be ashamed of yourself.


LVM has close to an order of magnitude greater number of reportable disciplinary incidents per year (425 for LVM, 52 for Langley). So figure all of the police and admin time that goes to LVM. Must be worth a lot more than $10K. You're already getting a lot more public resources - what's to complain about?

I live in Langley itself and let me tell you those brats are 10x worst than any other school in this county. Their parents keep them out of trouble with their lawyers and influence while they run a muck. It's not the kids fault in other districts that they have issues, society did it to them. Now we need to clean up the mess Republicants created.

Old lady. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live in Langley itself and let me tell you those
> brats are 10x worst than any other school in this
> county. Their parents keep them out of trouble
> with their lawyers and influence while they run a
> muck. It's not the kids fault in other districts
> that they have issues, society did it to them. Now
> we need to clean up the mess Republicants created.


Yup, dope and DWI at Langley, same as mass murderers and heroin rings at Westfield, not mention the garden variety thuggery at Mount Vernon. I should have seen the equivalence. Thanks for help me out.

100% wrong. Your facts are so skewed it must hurt your brain. Clueless is the only way to describe yourself.

Old lady. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 100% wrong. Your facts are so skewed it must hurt
> your brain. Clueless is the only way to describe
> yourself.


You're like the worst troll ever dude. lmao

Subsidized student parking...for 17 year olds...who can ride the bus...for free...mull that one over for a few minutes.

If you have enough money to pay for gas and insurance, you shouldn't be on subsidized meal plans.

Driving to school is a luxury, not a necessity. Take the free bus. Reallocate the gas money you're saving towards your college education. That way your family's poverty can end at your generation and stop free loading off of tax payers.

I was want my free Obamaphone and my free Obamacare insurance. If you throw in a parking space, that's chicken and gravy.

If you have some kid getting a subsidized parking space so he can drive his beater car to work after school to earn money to help his family make ends meet, I think a large number of us would approve of that. The problem many have with subsidies though is where you have some kid driving to and from school and parking in a subsidized spot just so he'd have the luxury of not having to walk or ride the bus. Even more support is lost when that kid is driving something worth upwards of $20k, and is also drawing on a number of other school subsidies. And even more support is lost when these kids not only get subsidized parking spaces, but also get higher priority in the allocation of parking spaces.

What pisses most people off about these kinds of subsidized activities is not that the subsidies exists. Rather it is the incredible laziness of those charged with administering them in determining who should qualify for what subsidy, and the rampant amounts of fraud and abuse that is tolerated.

Hans Andersen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All kids within a 3 mile radius of school should
> walk. The rest should take public transport. This
> fear of walking thing is unreal.

Agree. But we've got a chick/egg thing going on as the US isn't pedestrian or bicycle friendly in many many areas.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you have some kid getting a subsidized parking
> space so he can drive his beater car to work after
> school to earn money to help his family make ends
> meet, I think a large number of us would approve
> of that.

The very logical extension of that is subsidized gas, subsidized cars, and so on. We already have a subsidized transportation system, actually two that students can use. The school buses and the regular Metro buses. By subsidizing parking, you are actually encouraging people who cannot afford the car to get one. This is an example of the new welfare state, which gives people just enough handouts and subsidies to keep them poor.

Cars need to be subsidized or given to low income minority's for free. A new vehicle surcharge of 1000 dollars should be tacked onto the MSPR of all dealership cars or for every 30 new or used cars they sell two new cars have to be given away for free. No reason why we cant take care of low income family's who are struggling due top the incompetence of Republicans.

Old lady. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cars need to be subsidized or given to low income
> minority's for free. A new vehicle surcharge of
> 1000 dollars should be tacked onto the MSPR of all
> dealership cars or for every 30 new or used cars
> they sell two new cars have to be given away for
> free. No reason why we cant take care of low
> income family's who are struggling due top the
> incompetence of Republicans.


You could call it an Obamacar.

NuVGC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The very logical extension of that is subsidized
> gas, subsidized cars, and so on. We already have
> a subsidized transportation system, actually two
> that students can use.

Sorry, but that logic does not hold up. When you are talking about subsidizing a school parking space, you are talking about allocating a state resource. Gas and cars are provided by the private market. The price of gas is the same for all of us, but the price of cars can vary significantly. Also there are charities that make cars available to low resource individuals, and you can also have them supplied by family and friends.

The next problem is there can be a huge difference in job opportunities and income potential based on whether a kid is available to work. 2:30 might be a doable start time if the kid drove direct from school to work. 4:00 is the more likely start time if the kid had to ride a school bus home and then take a bus to work. This can impact not just the amount of time a kid could work, but also the kind of jobs the kid might be able to get.

A scumbag republican cant comprehend giving a little bit more for a good deed. Lucky for us they will all be a thing of the past.

Old lady. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cars need to be subsidized or given to low income
> minority's for free. A new vehicle surcharge of
> 1000 dollars should be tacked onto the MSPR of all
> dealership cars or for every 30 new or used cars
> they sell two new cars have to be given away for
> free. No reason why we cant take care of low
> income family's who are struggling due top the
> incompetence of Republicans.


Cars are bad and cause obesity. Isn't there something called the National Walk and Bike to School Day?

This is the first time in history some people were better off than others. Something needs to be done and now.

Here's a 60's era solution. Boycott paying for parking and every person eligible should take the bus. Or maybe get a community organizer (know one?) to organize Driverless Tuesdays and only do it one day a week. It would cause chaos because they could never accomdoate all the bus riders.

Long Time Resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a 60's era solution. Boycott paying for
> parking and every person eligible should take the
> bus. Or maybe get a community organizer (know
> one?) to organize Driverless Tuesdays and only do
> it one day a week. It would cause chaos because
> they could never accomdoate all the bus riders.

A lot of the buses I see are half empty anyway.

It is hard for a kid to walk and bike to school when you live 8 or 10 miles from school, there aren't any sidewalks, they are carrying a trombone and a very large science project, and it is pitch black outside. And pouring down rain. And you have after school band practice until 5:30 and the late bus leaves at 3pm.

Reality check, smack cam.

Reduced price kids can get a parking pass for $25 a quarter. Free price kids can get one for $20 a year. I think the problem is that they can't afford a car because they are poor. That's why the parking lots at Mount Vernon are empty.

I am NOT buying every low income teenager in Fairfax County a car.

I sell parking permits at a high school in Fairfax county. As a result, I get to review the applications to park on school grounds. That ap has a vehicle description block. The majority of permits I sell to "free or reduced" students have more expensive cars listed than any I have ever driven. Sold one the other day to a kid driving a 2013 TSX Acura. When I questioned him about why we had to pay for his lunch when he was driving a $30K car, he just laughed. When I report students whose parents I suspect are lying on their applications for free lunches, I am told by Penny McConnell's office that there is nothing they can do.

My advice to everyone with a child in FCPS would be to fill out an application for the free and reduced program. According to Ms. McConnell, they do not have enough staff to check all the applications for validity. That would either overwhelm the system and maybe these lazy bastards would do what they are supposed to do, or....you might be approved and get a free lunch and a parking pass for free. it works at the school I work at. Good Luck!!!!!!

wake up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Reduced price kids can get a parking pass for $25
> a quarter. Free price kids can get one for $20 a
> year.

If you get your lunch for free, shouldn't your parking be free? I mean, shouldn't you be entitled to get all your shit for free?

*None Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I report students
> whose parents I suspect are lying on their
> applications for free lunches, I am told by Penny
> McConnell's office that there is nothing they can
> do.

The one good thing about Obamacare is that they were able to build a federal data hub that brings together all of your tax info, credit bureau info, everything. It might too well now, but when it does I'm sure it will expand in use to cover all government subsidies - SNAP, Medicaid, etc. Big brother will be able to tell if your tax returns match what's on your FRL application. It would stop the hard-core cheaters, but it will stop the casual scammers.

*None Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I sell parking permits at a high school in Fairfax
> county. As a result, I get to review the
> applications to park on school grounds. That ap
> has a vehicle description block. The majority of
> permits I sell to "free or reduced" students have
> more expensive cars listed than any I have ever
> driven. Sold one the other day to a kid driving a
> 2013 TSX Acura. When I questioned him about why
> we had to pay for his lunch when he was driving a
> $30K car, he just laughed. When I report students
> whose parents I suspect are lying on their
> applications for free lunches, I am told by Penny
> McConnell's office that there is nothing they can
> do.
>
> My advice to everyone with a child in FCPS would
> be to fill out an application for the free and
> reduced program. According to Ms. McConnell, they
> do not have enough staff to check all the
> applications for validity. That would either
> overwhelm the system and maybe these lazy bastards
> would do what they are supposed to do, or....you
> might be approved and get a free lunch and a
> parking pass for free. it works at the school I
> work at. Good Luck!!!!!!


Liar. Do you always enjoy telling fibs?

Big Brother Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The one good thing about Obamacare is that they
> were able to build a federal data hub that brings
> together all of your tax info, credit bureau info,
> everything. It might too well now, but when it
> does I'm sure it will expand in use to cover all
> government subsidies - SNAP, Medicaid, etc. Big
> brother will be able to tell if your tax returns
> match what's on your FRL application. It would
> stop the hard-core cheaters, but it will stop the
> casual scammers.

That type of info has been available for years and wasnt used. Everyone is aware you can get free breakfast and lunch by lying on the application. The habitual moochers know every trick.

I think they only randomly audit about 3% of applications. I think everybody should have to turn in proof of income.

Free lunch, free breakfast, free parking, discounted class fees, what's not to love about faking being on the dole? You have a 97% chance of not getting caught. And there are also nutcases who want us to buy cars for these kids.

Even if caught the kid will be years along in school. They are not going to make them pay it back so why bother, just give everyone all the free stuff they can swallow.

i would believe it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And there are also nutcases
> who want us to buy cars for these kids.

The only nutcases who are running around talking about the government providing poor with cars are the nutcases who don't want the government to be providing the poor with anything.

We already provide subsidized transportation for the poor - it's called Metro, which is heavily subsidized by every municipality in the DC area. Students can use Metro buses to get to their jobs.

This would be like saying that food stamps are so inconvenient - gotta buy groceries, prepare food at home, etc., so we should allow food stamp use in restaurants cause it saves the poor time.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The only nutcases who are running around talking
> about the government providing poor with cars are
> the nutcases who don't want the government to be
> providing the poor with anything.


and if you keep feeding a stray cat the cat will keep showing up everyday expecting a meal instead of catching mice like it should be doing.

blanche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The WaPo article sounded like they want
> redistribution of the parking funds to the lower
> income schools. Where have I heard this
> before...?


I get mad when the hoodrats from the neigborhood a few streets over come to mine for Halloween.

*None Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I sell parking permits at a high school in Fairfax
> county. As a result, I get to review the
> applications to park on school grounds. That ap
> has a vehicle description block. The majority of
> permits I sell to "free or reduced" students have
> more expensive cars listed than any I have ever
> driven. Sold one the other day to a kid driving a
> 2013 TSX Acura. When I questioned him about why
> we had to pay for his lunch when he was driving a
> $30K car, he just laughed. When I report students
> whose parents I suspect are lying on their
> applications for free lunches, I am told by Penny
> McConnell's office that there is nothing they can
> do.
>
> My advice to everyone with a child in FCPS would
> be to fill out an application for the free and
> reduced program. According to Ms. McConnell, they
> do not have enough staff to check all the
> applications for validity. That would either
> overwhelm the system and maybe these lazy bastards
> would do what they are supposed to do, or....you
> might be approved and get a free lunch and a
> parking pass for free. it works at the school I
> work at. Good Luck!!!!!!

I used to run a program for the Jaycees around this time of year called the Christmas Toy Workshop. We collected donated new and used toys for a couple months and then distributed them along with food to needy families on the weekend before Christmas. The participant families were provided to us by social services and local churches.

Volunteers would deliver the food and gifts to the needy families. I cannot tell you how many times we would pull up to a house of a "needy family" only to find 2 or 3 newer model cars in the driveway. One family had 2 Caddys less than a year old! It didnt make sense! We also found people gaming the system by having mommy apply for help for her kids and then granny would also apply for help for the same kids, all living under the same roof. My fav was one lady who violently demanded she get a ham instead of a turkey. Turns out she already got a turkey from another organization.

It's the same story, you give them an inch they want a mile.

Love it. Food stamps in restaurants next.
I love the movement that is trying to outlaw what you can use food stamps on. sounds good to me. No candy bars, etc. Just necessities.

Maybe you should have to show your SNAP card to get the parking pass.

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers would deliver the food and gifts to the
> needy families. I cannot tell you how many times
> we would pull up to a house of a "needy family"
> only to find 2 or 3 newer model cars in the
> driveway. One family had 2 Caddys less than a year
> old! It didnt make sense! We also found people
> gaming the system by having mommy apply for help
> for her kids and then granny would also apply for
> help for the same kids, all living under the same
> roof. My fav was one lady who violently demanded
> she get a ham instead of a turkey. Turns out she
> already got a turkey from another organization.
>
> It's the same story, you give them an inch they
> want a mile.

Anybody who does charitable work runs into plenty of these stories.

When I was in college we set up a free income tax preparation service for a local charity. Within a couple of weeks we found we were getting inundated with wealthier senior citizens who felt because they were older they should get their returns done free rather than pay H&R Block $200. What's worse was that when we started turning them away the charity director pitched a fit.

Over the years I've participated in some of those feed the homeless programs. On several occasions I've seen people carrying their meals to their Accura or Lexis. To be fair, maybe their cars are their homes.

The latest outrage is my company participates in a program offering free or reduced price services to "needy". One day I pulled a new person's information sheet, looked at the address and realized something was off. Checked the assessment and the guy was the owner of a home assessed at above $2 million. When I told him we could not accept him under the program he started complaining that since his only income was social security, he was "entitled".

Then of course there are those across the income, wealth, age, racial and cultural spectrums whose method of getting free goods or services is to refuse to pay for them.

Hang up a sign that says "free stuff for the needy" and you will always get selfish creatures lining up trying to somehow get something at no cost. However you can also help out some who really do need it.

I only give to people I know need help. Direct support no organizations to cut into the donations. There are more scamming the system than not scamming the system. They are exactly like stray cats, dropping one litter after another and once you feed them they come back looking for more.

There are too many scams to list. The biggest are using SNAP cards to buy food for people in exchange for cash. The cash is then used to buy liquor, smokes, drugs and lottery tickets.

Another big scam is government payments for child care. The mom applies and lists another woman as her day care provider. The other woman gets the payments. That other woman just happens to be the moms mother.

The more you feed them and the more stuff you give them the more they want and expect. It is never-ending.

the day care provider scam sounds like the deal at Poe. Put a family member on the payroll and sign off that time card whether they show up or not. Easy $$$ until you end up in jail, as well as your kid that you sucked into your illegal game. What kind of a mother does that to her child?

It grows into a bigger and bigger entitlement mentality. Free school lunch become free breakfast and lunch. Reduced student fees becomes free student fees. Reduced child care becomes free child care. Subsidized health care becomes free health care. Well you get the picture, the more you give the more they want until it is not only expected it is demanded as a civil right.

Only in America can a person live in a section 8 luxury condo, get food stamps, welfare, obamacare and obamaphones and be considered living in poverty.

Old lady. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A true repuklican speaking. Fuck the poor and give
> to the rich. You should be ashamed of yourself.

The poor should be killed and their bodies burned to provide heat in the homes of the wealthy. The ashes can be spread in icy sidewalks so that those of us who wear expensive clothes don't slip and scuff our shoes.

I have a lamp in my library on which the lampshade is made from human skin. It provides a warm lovely glow by which to read in the evenings while drinking wine by the fireplace.

Not everybody is going to be wealthy. Not everybody is going to be poor. Some people are always going to have more than others. Tough @#$%. Deal with it.

Eat peanut butter and jelly. Work hard. Live small.

In obamas vision of America everyone is equal. Where have I heard From each according to his ability, to each according to his need?

Last I looked Obama was living in a big white house downtown, with a full set of staff. And we are all paying for it. Practice what you preach, buddy.

tough @#$% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not everybody is going to be wealthy. Not
> everybody is going to be poor. Some people are
> always going to have more than others. Tough @#$%.
> Deal with it.

There was a time when we used to say "Not everyone is going to be born into a noble household, and not everyone is born to be a landless serf. Some people are always going to be graced by God to have been born into better families than others." Times change and so do the rules.

Bob Dylan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tough @#$% Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not everybody is going to be wealthy. Not
> > everybody is going to be poor. Some people are
> > always going to have more than others. Tough
> @#$%.
> > Deal with it.
>
> There was a time when we used to say "Not everyone
> is going to be born into a noble household, and
> not everyone is born to be a landless serf. Some
> people are always going to be graced by God to
> have been born into better families than others."
> Times change and so do the rules.


I say the new rules are buy generic peanut butter if you can't afford Jif. Once upon a time I was flat broke. I worked hard, saved, scrimped, did without. Now I am not poor. I wasn't born into any noble household, nor was my spouse.

This is actually a very simple concept.

irritated123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sure beats what one Booster club was doing-refusing to release public records,
> skimming thousands of dollars of surplus cash off
> of public school transactions they were allowed to
> process money for instead of returning it to
> families, lying to parents, putting out fake and
> incomplete records to cover it up, etc. I'm not
> making this up. This is where it all came from.

Are you aware of more than one instance of this type of behavior? You realize that PTSA officers and FCPS school employees also embezzle monies on occasion?


> Booster clubs don't have the right to determine
> fees for classes.

They don't now. It's all semantics.

>Booster clubs don't
> have the technical capability of handling
> government records according to the state laws
> that are in place. The records have to be
> maintained on a government system or something
> equivalent, which is generally not feasible for a
> Mom and Pop organization.

Says a govt. bureaucrat aka lawyer. Subject to interpretation but could be remedied.

>The information on Free
> and Reduced kids is only supposed to be released
> to staff, with specific permission, and volunteers
> don't count.

Totally bogus issue. Student account information could easily be blinded with only FCPS staff aware of the actual student info.


> If you don't like this, put your kid
> in private school or discuss it with your
> legislator.

It's going to be a consideration for many parents.

>The Fine Arts programs are also
> receiving appropriated funds. $750,000 this year.
> That is also public money.

Well aware of that. Theatre boosters beware.


> Music Booster groups are still totally free to
> raise private funds that are actually private
> funds.

You and everyone knows that booster funding will dry up when everyone realizes that booster clubs have no say or control over how the money is spent.

Athletic boosters up next. FCPS better go after them as well.

RydellRoad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> irritated123 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sure beats what one Booster club was
> doing-refusing to release public records,
> > skimming thousands of dollars of surplus cash
> off
> > of public school transactions they were allowed
> to
> > process money for instead of returning it to
> > families, lying to parents, putting out fake
> and
> > incomplete records to cover it up, etc. I'm not
> > making this up. This is where it all came from.
>
> Are you aware of more than one instance of this
> type of behavior? You realize that PTSA officers
> and FCPS school employees also embezzle monies on
> occasion?
>
>
> > Booster clubs don't have the right to determine
> > fees for classes.
>
> They don't now. It's all semantics.
>
> >Booster clubs don't
> > have the technical capability of handling
> > government records according to the state laws
> > that are in place. The records have to be
> > maintained on a government system or something
> > equivalent, which is generally not feasible for
> a
> > Mom and Pop organization.
>
> Says a govt. bureaucrat aka lawyer. Subject to
> interpretation but could be remedied.
>
> >The information on Free
> > and Reduced kids is only supposed to be
> released
> > to staff, with specific permission, and
> volunteers
> > don't count.
>
> Totally bogus issue. Student account information
> could easily be blinded with only FCPS staff aware
> of the actual student info.
>
>
> > If you don't like this, put your kid
> > in private school or discuss it with your
> > legislator.
>
> It's going to be a consideration for many
> parents.
>
> >The Fine Arts programs are also
> > receiving appropriated funds. $750,000 this
> year.
> > That is also public money.
>
> Well aware of that. Theatre boosters beware.
>
>
> > Music Booster groups are still totally free to
> > raise private funds that are actually private
> > funds.
>
> You and everyone knows that booster funding will
> dry up when everyone realizes that booster clubs
> have no say or control over how the money is
> spent.
>
> Athletic boosters up next. FCPS better go after
> them as well.


Well these people skimmed off tens of thousands of dollars of public money and they refused to release public records. The only cure for that is to go to court. Withholding public records is a really, really, REALLY bad thing to do. At least when you can see the records you can semi-figure out what went on and hold somebody accountable. And that person has a bond on them. And their employer is generously self-insured for screw-ups.

Not being able to produce public records that you should be able to is the equivalent of a FOIA violation for a public entity. Those run into thousands of dollars in fines. EACH. Plus court costs! And they are supposed to have a LOT of records. And they were missing a BUNCH and had quite a fight trying to pry them out of these nutcases. That costs lots and lots of public dollars and makes for VERY bad press. School systems suing parents never goes over well. Public entities that have public records in somebody's garage, only they don't even know whose garage they are in, makes for VERY bad press also.

There really isn't any choice. Public records are public records. They have to be available. Class fees have to be determined by the school system. Deal with it. Change the state laws if you don't like it. The music classes are classes. Read the Code. It's all there. You can do whatever you want with a private club. These classes are not private clubs.

Anybody can see the school records. You just walk into the front office and hold out your hand. This booster club brought in an attorney to help them hide what were public records. I am NOT making this up. They refused to release school trip records. We all signed a contract with the school system, which made the records public records held by an outside party that the school system delegated their work to. The school system retains the liability for producing the records, regardless. It's very simple. They are still the custodian of the public records. The Boosters wanted secrets and lots of them, they HAD lots of secrets because they liked scamming the parents out of money, and were willing to have a sheriff knock on their front door, I guess, because that is the protocol for somebody who refuses to release public records. Anybody who wants secrets that badly is obviously up to no good and/or really messed up. The non-profit transparency laws meant nothing to them. They sneakily pushed through an amendment to their bylaws removing the clause that allowed members to see all financial instruments. That was several years ago, and they STILL haven't put it back in. That is also a recipe for trouble.

You can blame it all on them. If they had been transparent, forthright, open, and produced records, all this might never have evolved. But, they were a huge problem. And in fighting the battle everybody saw the light.

These programs are better off than they ever were. Appropriated funds, open records, a new updated fee schedule that is very generous. If people don't pay, the school system has the right to go after them. The Boosters didn't have any right to go after anybody because only the school system can assess a fee. Nothing else is really enforceable. Having School Board money held in a Booster bank account, an account a school official has no control over, was and is a recipe for disaster. The Boosters have also transferred a huge liability to the exact people who should be holding the liability-the school system. Sure beats having somebody go after your house or life's savings. Most of the clubs were under-insured or not insured at all, only they didn't even know it. The school system holds the liability for the trips and the programs. They always did. Let them have it. The parents were and are nothing more than volunteers working under supervision of a teacher and a principal. Only they weren't getting much supervision. They thought their policies were more important than the state educational laws. Don't think so.

Some groups didn't even know who they were or what they were supposed to be. And a lot of them didn't know their limits and still don't.

Booster clubs can still handle voluntary donations and voluntary contributions, participate in budget discussions, ministerial duties, etc. That will keep them very busy. There are a lot of people who need to just deal with it. I am sure people will stay very busy. Just in different ways.

So, there you have it.

'Fairness' is just another word for income re-distribution. Enough will never be enough for redistributionists.

Take the wildly disparate physical facilities and funding between Langley and Mount Vernon. Mount Vernon gets dramatically HIGHER staffing (30% higher) for the same number of students. Langley basically had to raise almost all the money to pay for turf fields from parent and club organizations - FCPS just wrote the check for Mount Vernon.

So Mount Vernon gets 30% more staff funding, fully paid athletic renovations - running in to the millions each - but the redistributionists cannot even leave the few thousand from the boosters alone?

With all the generous perks on welfare I am not sure why anyone would choose to work for a living. I got started working years ago so its too late for me. If I had it to do over I would choose welfare over work

eUw6F Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Langley
> basically had to raise almost all the money to pay
> for turf fields from parent and club organizations
> - FCPS just wrote the check for Mount Vernon.
>
> So Mount Vernon gets 30% more staff funding, fully
> paid athletic renovations - running in to the
> millions each - but the redistributionists cannot
> even leave the few thousand from the boosters
> alone?

Mt. Vernon's athletic renovations and the future, architect-designed grand entrance to the stadium is all funded by donations (boosters, alumni etc). Just 20 years ago Mt. Vernon was a majority upper-middle class school, and there are still plenty of resources to draw from to fund cool projects.

Only poor white kids.

The money collected for class fees and trips is kept in a separate account. There is not any "redistributing". And there isn't any redistributing of Booster funds because these aren't Booster funds.

Any excess has to be returned to the families. The appropriated funds for Marching Band can be shifted around as needed. Those are retained by the school system. They are called Green Dollars.

The records on this are all open.

I don't know anything about the athletics money redistribution.

Forget about cars and luxury parking lots. Let's get our priorities straight. Can't these schools raise funds for outdoor WC's at the football stadia? The portable jons are gross.

my goodness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forget about cars and luxury parking lots. Let's
> get our priorities straight. Can't these schools
> raise funds for outdoor WC's at the football
> stadia? The portable jons are gross.

How about focusing priorities on a better eduction rather than where you plant your ass to take a crap. Obviously with your horrific spelling education did you no good.

So FCPS wants us to believe we are now in a NEW money crunch. Hmm..

Let's cut our art, music and PE in elementary school. We can use the time to cram for the SOL's and they kids can have a real recess. Rich parents can afford music after school. The arts and PE are just filler.

MS is the same BS so we can cut band and strings. Total waste of time. Now the kids do not need to eat lunch starting at 10:15AM.

HS can stay on track. College counts.

Talk to Gerry or Sharon. Without all the added costs like ESL, free food and the social services provided to the children of illegals the county would be in the black.

Talk to the hand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Talk to Gerry or Sharon. Without all the added
> costs like ESL, free food and the social services
> provided to the children of illegals the county
> would be in the black.

Totally agree. People come here because the services are great and they know it. They dilute the quality of life because they are trying to live in an area they can't afford and reap the benefits. The language barrier is all over the United States, but certainly worse here due to the nature of the area and they type of work that brings people here.

the blatant truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RydellRoad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > irritated123 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Sure beats what one Booster club was
> > doing-refusing to release public records,
> > > skimming thousands of dollars of surplus cash
> > off
> > > of public school transactions they were
> allowed
> > to
> > > process money for instead of returning it to
> > > families, lying to parents, putting out fake
> > and
> > > incomplete records to cover it up, etc. I'm
> not
> > > making this up. This is where it all came
> from.
> >
> > Are you aware of more than one instance of this
> > type of behavior? You realize that PTSA
> officers
> > and FCPS school employees also embezzle monies
> on
> > occasion?
> >
> >
> > > Booster clubs don't have the right to
> determine
> > > fees for classes.
> >
> > They don't now. It's all semantics.
> >
> > >Booster clubs don't
> > > have the technical capability of handling
> > > government records according to the state
> laws
> > > that are in place. The records have to be
> > > maintained on a government system or
> something
> > > equivalent, which is generally not feasible
> for
> > a
> > > Mom and Pop organization.
> >
> > Says a govt. bureaucrat aka lawyer. Subject to
> > interpretation but could be remedied.
> >
> > >The information on Free
> > > and Reduced kids is only supposed to be
> > released
> > > to staff, with specific permission, and
> > volunteers
> > > don't count.
> >
> > Totally bogus issue. Student account
> information
> > could easily be blinded with only FCPS staff
> aware
> > of the actual student info.
> >
> >
> > > If you don't like this, put your kid
> > > in private school or discuss it with your
> > > legislator.
> >
> > It's going to be a consideration for many
> > parents.
> >
> > >The Fine Arts programs are also
> > > receiving appropriated funds. $750,000 this
> > year.
> > > That is also public money.
> >
> > Well aware of that. Theatre boosters beware.
> >
> >
> > > Music Booster groups are still totally free
> to
> > > raise private funds that are actually private
> > > funds.
> >
> > You and everyone knows that booster funding
> will
> > dry up when everyone realizes that booster
> clubs
> > have no say or control over how the money is
> > spent.
> >
> > Athletic boosters up next. FCPS better go
> after
> > them as well.
>
>
> Well these people skimmed off tens of thousands of
> dollars of public money and they refused to
> release public records. The only cure for that is
> to go to court. Withholding public records is a
> really, really, REALLY bad thing to do. At least
> when you can see the records you can semi-figure
> out what went on and hold somebody accountable.
> And that person has a bond on them. And their
> employer is generously self-insured for screw-ups.
>
>
> Not being able to produce public records that you
> should be able to is the equivalent of a FOIA
> violation for a public entity. Those run into
> thousands of dollars in fines. EACH. Plus court
> costs! And they are supposed to have a LOT of
> records. And they were missing a BUNCH and had
> quite a fight trying to pry them out of these
> nutcases. That costs lots and lots of public
> dollars and makes for VERY bad press. School
> systems suing parents never goes over well. Public
> entities that have public records in somebody's
> garage, only they don't even know whose garage
> they are in, makes for VERY bad press also.
>
> There really isn't any choice. Public records are
> public records. They have to be available. Class
> fees have to be determined by the school system.
> Deal with it. Change the state laws if you don't
> like it. The music classes are classes. Read the
> Code. It's all there. You can do whatever you want
> with a private club. These classes are not private
> clubs.
>
> Anybody can see the school records. You just walk
> into the front office and hold out your hand. This
> booster club brought in an attorney to help them
> hide what were public records. I am NOT making
> this up. They refused to release school trip
> records. We all signed a contract with the school
> system, which made the records public records held
> by an outside party that the school system
> delegated their work to. The school system retains
> the liability for producing the records,
> regardless. It's very simple. They are still the
> custodian of the public records. The Boosters
> wanted secrets and lots of them, they HAD lots of
> secrets because they liked scamming the parents
> out of money, and were willing to have a sheriff
> knock on their front door, I guess, because that
> is the protocol for somebody who refuses to
> release public records. Anybody who wants secrets
> that badly is obviously up to no good and/or
> really messed up. The non-profit transparency laws
> meant nothing to them. They sneakily pushed
> through an amendment to their bylaws removing the
> clause that allowed members to see all financial
> instruments. That was several years ago, and they
> STILL haven't put it back in. That is also a
> recipe for trouble.
>
> You can blame it all on them. If they had been
> transparent, forthright, open, and produced
> records, all this might never have evolved. But,
> they were a huge problem. And in fighting the
> battle everybody saw the light.
>
> These programs are better off than they ever were.
> Appropriated funds, open records, a new updated
> fee schedule that is very generous. If people
> don't pay, the school system has the right to go
> after them. The Boosters didn't have any right to
> go after anybody because only the school system
> can assess a fee. Nothing else is really
> enforceable. Having School Board money held in a
> Booster bank account, an account a school official
> has no control over, was and is a recipe for
> disaster. The Boosters have also transferred a
> huge liability to the exact people who should be
> holding the liability-the school system. Sure
> beats having somebody go after your house or
> life's savings. Most of the clubs were
> under-insured or not insured at all, only they
> didn't even know it. The school system holds the
> liability for the trips and the programs. They
> always did. Let them have it. The parents were and
> are nothing more than volunteers working under
> supervision of a teacher and a principal. Only
> they weren't getting much supervision. They
> thought their policies were more important than
> the state educational laws. Don't think so.
>
> Some groups didn't even know who they were or what
> they were supposed to be. And a lot of them didn't
> know their limits and still don't.
>
> Booster clubs can still handle voluntary donations
> and voluntary contributions, participate in budget
> discussions, ministerial duties, etc. That will
> keep them very busy. There are a lot of people who
> need to just deal with it. I am sure people will
> stay very busy. Just in different ways.
>
> So, there you have it.



***I'll tell you what, Rydell Road, why don't you start a whole new thread and the whole county can rock and roll on this. You can put this all on there for starters. That ought to get things going real fast. Unless Booster clubs are willing to assume the personal liability for about $10,000,000 and the liability for creation and retention of public records, including access records, encryption, FERPA, VPN, five years of records in the vault, etc., the school system is out of options and they know it. Anybody they contract with has to agree to all this and be able to manage it.

We already found one group with a broken computer who didn't want to get it fixed. They were hoping nobody would want the records. One group thought they were 501c3 but were 501c4. Didn't even know the difference. One group is still a mystery. They weren't registered with the IRS and so far have not produced any documentation of exactly what they are, which they have to do. Yet, they have two checking accounts. All were handling public money, to boot.

The infamous group who didn't want to release records created a fraudulent trip payment spreadsheet that the school system spent many, many months auditing. They had to make some ridiculous explanations to families and write some really, really big checks to families because they trusted these volunteers and they just did whatever, including marking people paid up who weren't. The school officials were left standing there with egg all over their faces, missing thousands of dollars, and it was not pleasant. This group screwed them over and screwed over a bunch of families. Many, many groups are not incorporated, which doesn't even necessarily save them anyway.

So, my advice is to hush up and go with The Plan. If you don't like The Plan, put your kid in private school. It is going to be fine if people just roll with it, adapt their expectations and practices, and give it up. Quit wasting taxpayer dollars arguing with the school officials and fighting the changes. I suggest you start a donation system, maybe soliciting from alums, also. Because the days of sending parents a bill for a Booster wish list are over.