Sweet! How can I rip off the government like Romney?

Caymen Island tax shelters? Swiss Bank Accounts?

Rummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sweet! How can I rip off the government like
> Romney?
>
> Caymen Island tax shelters? Swiss Bank Accounts?


13% did that include state and property tax? Wait he didn't say.

Maybe he had the treasury secretary do his taxes for him. That would explain it.

There seems to be this misapprehension that rich people like paying taxes more than the rest of us. They absolutely do not.

The advantage they have, however, is that they can afford to hire rooms full of accountants and tax attorneys to figure out the best way to minimize their tax bill, and I'd imagine those folks are a good deal more thorough than the part-time schlub grinding it out at your local H&R Block.

It is called the tax code. Capital gains are taxed differently than income. Hate the game, not the player. Wid you want him to just voluntarily pay more? I bet you are that stupid.

But the big players rig the game with their big political contributions.

According to Mitt, he also donated approximately 7% of his income to charity. You can cut him a little slack there. His effective tax is now 13.8%.

h8ers gonna h8 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is called the tax code. Capital gains are
> taxed differently than income. Hate the game, not
> the player. Wid you want him to just voluntarily
> pay more? I bet you are that stupid.


Yeah, but they can pay to change the rules to the ones they like.

Lester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But the big players rig the game with their big
> political contributions.
>
> According to Mitt, he also donated approximately
> 7% of his income to charity. You can cut him a
> little slack there. His effective tax is now
> 13.8%.


Yeah the property taxes on his 3-5 homes should alone account for 13%

It was suggested that Romney didn't want his returns released because they would show how little he HAD paid. I suspect the truth is he didn't want them released because they would show how little he WOULD pay with his proposed tax code changes. If we were in a political environment where the tax code was going to stay essentially the same, the argument "I paid what the tax code requires me to pay" would have some validity. When you are talking about re-writing the Code, rewrites that cut your tax rate while raising the rate of someone who makes substantially less leaves you exposed.

Lester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But the big players rig the game with their big
> political contributions.
>
> According to Mitt, he also donated approximately
> 7% of his income to charity. You can cut him a
> little slack there. His effective tax is now
> 13.8%.


So you're pissed because he chose to spend his money the way he wanted to?

He didn't write the tax code on donations anymore than Obama did.

In 2010 he paid around $2.8 million dollars. How much did you pay, Lester?

That's $2,800,000. But it's still not enough is it?

And that's just him. All the companies he owns or ever owned or was involved with paid taxes as well. Deny it all you want but you know it's true.

It cracks me up how people whine about the rich not paying enough taxes, blah blah blah. Who doesn't try to pay as little as they can in taxes? That's why places like HR BLock and Jackson Hewwitt are in business. It doesn't matter how much money somebody has, human nature is human nature. NOBODY is going to pay any more than they have to.

Almost 50% of the people in this country pay ZERO federal income taxes.

village idiot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It cracks me up how people whine about the rich
> not paying enough taxes, blah blah blah. Who
> doesn't try to pay as little as they can in taxes?
> That's why places like HR BLock and Jackson
> Hewwitt are in business. It doesn't matter how
> much money somebody has, human nature is human
> nature. NOBODY is going to pay any more than they
> have to.


And that's only on a PERCENTAGE basis.

Shocker - we don't pay for things in percentages, we pay for things in dollars.

Vexxxed Wrote:

>
> In 2010 he paid around $2.8 million dollars. How
> much did you pay, Lester?
>
> That's $2,800,000. But it's still not enough is
> it?

What a stupid point to make. You guys on the right labor under the Sean Hannity induced belief that the Democrats are "engaging in the politics of class warfare", and are "filled with resentment". This is far from the truth, which is that the left is angered and amused at the sanctimonious tripe the Republicans routinely peddle. To wit:

Romney lashes out at Obama for continuing to make his tax returns an issue in the campaign. Fair enough, but then he goes on to say "I want to talk about putting Americans back to work". Really? Exactly how does he propose to do that?

With Obama, it's rather straight forward. He'll raise (actually restore) taxes on the wealthy and use the money for a little Keynesian pump priming. This technique works and has been used by both parties when they have been in power; excepting the Democrats tax and spend, while the Republicans borrow and spend -- hence the huge deficit.

With Romney, it's just empty rhetoric. His business background should make him loathe the idea of government interference in the economy, and his rock-ribbed Republicanism dictates that he reduce not expand the role of government. So he'll ...give tax breaks to corporations to encourage them to make more widgets! Putting aside the fact that this is "industrial policy", which Republicans say they oppose, the idea then is to encourage companies to make three widgets and try to sell them to a population that can't afford two widgets, let alone three. Now that's some strategy.

When Conservatism tries to look populist, it invariably paints itself into a corner. Before he started with this claptrap -- which Republican candidates all eventually go to -- I most likely wouldn't have voted for him, but I wouldn't have felt nervous about the overall direction of his leadership. But now he has shown himself to be just another lying Republican, who panders to the Reagan Democrats to get elected, then governs for the benefit of the 1%.

Personally, I think he resists making his tax returns public not so much because it will show that he is immensely rich and pays little tax -- everyone who's paying attention knows that -- but that it will reveal that the vast majority of his contributions to charity are in fact his tithe to the LDS church.

Me, I admire the Mormons for their work ethic and commitment to family, but the majority of Americans think of them as a non-Christian cult. His tithing, which must be 10% of his income by Mormon doctrine, will just reinforce the idea that he is really "not one of us". It's said that George W won election because he came across as "the guy you'd have a beer with". Well, Mr. Romney owns the Brewery, doesn't drink beer, and wears magic underwear. How is that gonna play down at the Moose Lodge?

Nova_Native Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
>
> >
> > In 2010 he paid around $2.8 million dollars.
> How
> > much did you pay, Lester?
> >
> > That's $2,800,000. But it's still not enough
> is
> > it?
>
> What a stupid point to make. You guys on the
> right labor under the Sean Hannity induced belief
> that the Democrats are "engaging in the politics
> of class warfare", and are "filled with
> resentment". This is far from the truth, which is
> that the left is angered and amused at the
> sanctimonious tripe the Republicans routinely
> peddle. To wit:
>
> Romney lashes out at Obama for continuing to make
> his tax returns an issue in the campaign. Fair
> enough, but then he goes on to say "I want to talk
> about putting Americans back to work". Really?
> Exactly how does he propose to do that?
>
> With Obama, it's rather straight forward. He'll
> raise (actually restore) taxes on the wealthy and
> use the money for a little Keynesian pump priming.
> This technique works and has been used by both
> parties when they have been in power; excepting
> the Democrats tax and spend, while the Republicans
> borrow and spend -- hence the huge deficit.
>
> With Romney, it's just empty rhetoric. His
> business background should make him loathe the
> idea of government interference in the economy,
> and his rock-ribbed Republicanism dictates that he
> reduce not expand the role of government. So
> he'll ...give tax breaks to corporations to
> encourage them to make more widgets! Putting
> aside the fact that this is "industrial policy",
> which Republicans say they oppose, the idea then
> is to encourage companies to make three widgets
> and try to sell them to a population that can't
> afford two widgets, let alone three. Now that's
> some strategy.
>
> When Conservatism tries to look populist, it
> invariably paints itself into a corner. Before he
> started with this claptrap -- which Republican
> candidates all eventually go to -- I most likely
> wouldn't have voted for him, but I wouldn't have
> felt nervous about the overall direction of his
> leadership. But now he has shown himself to be
> just another lying Republican, who panders to the
> Reagan Democrats to get elected, then governs for
> the benefit of the 1%.
>
> Personally, I think he resists making his tax
> returns public not so much because it will show
> that he is immensely rich and pays little tax --
> everyone who's paying attention knows that -- but
> that it will reveal that the vast majority of his
> contributions to charity are in fact his tithe to
> the LDS church.
>
> Me, I admire the Mormons for their work ethic and
> commitment to family, but the majority of
> Americans think of them as a non-Christian cult.
> His tithing, which must be 10% of his income by
> Mormon doctrine, will just reinforce the idea that
> he is really "not one of us". It's said that
> George W won election because he came across as
> "the guy you'd have a beer with". Well, Mr.
> Romney owns the Brewery, doesn't drink beer, and
> wears magic underwear. How is that gonna play
> down at the Moose Lodge?


TL/DR

so what Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Almost 50% of the people in this country pay ZERO
> federal income taxes.

And the best thing is we're going to bring in more poor immigrants so they can't pay federal income taxes.

Keep em cheep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so what Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Almost 50% of the people in this country pay
> ZERO
> > federal income taxes.
>
> And the best thing is we're going to bring in more
> poor immigrants so they can't pay federal income
> taxes.

I like it! Immigrants should pay taxes. The questions is will allowing illegals to become legals hurt the US economy because now they will have less money to spend and the US will look less attractive to them.

This could also increase the price of food if immigrants demand higher wages to pay taxes.

Nova_Native Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
>
> >
> > In 2010 he paid around $2.8 million dollars.
> How
> > much did you pay, Lester?
> >
> > That's $2,800,000. But it's still not enough
> is
> > it?
>
> What a stupid point to make. You guys on the
> right labor under the Sean Hannity induced belief
> that the Democrats are "engaging in the politics
> of class warfare", and are "filled with
> resentment". This is far from the truth, which is
> that the left is angered and amused at the
> sanctimonious tripe the Republicans routinely
> peddle. To wit:
>
>


Get fucking real. Obama worked his whole professional life as a social activist. Of course he's pushing the class warfare stuff. It's central to his entire world view. Or as he put it himself "SEIU's agenda is my agenda." Have you looked at SEIU's agenda? lol Or read his books? Both make his basic social philosophy abundantly clear.

"Can we stand back and pause a short minute to take in the spectacle of a man," Simon's post begins, "who wants to be President of The United States, who wants us to seriously regard him as a paragon of the American civic ideal, declaiming proudly and in public that he has paid his taxes at a third of the rate normally associated with gentlemen of his economic benefit."

Simon wrote that Romney's statements were a sign "the republic is just about over."
Attachments:

.
Attachments:

His tax bracket is 15 percent not 35 but dont let facts get in the way

And the charitable donations are to the Morman Church? The church that builds giant gold and marble palaces. Do they allow homeless in there? Only if they are mormons.

I used to work for Bonneville, which owned some of the most profitable media outlets in the country like WTOP. Bonneville is owned by the Morman church. Did they have to pay taxes? Maybe the Mormons taught Romney the creative tax strategy and that's why Romney doesn't get America's problem with it. It's religious doctrine to skirt tax laws.

How low the republican party has sunk. Being lead by a guy who doesn't pay taxes and hides his cash in other countries economies (not to mention pro-choice and pro big/progressive government.)

How stupid do you have to be to think a church doesnt help around the world with the less fortunate?

http://ldscharities.org/where-we-are?lang=eng#63527229913842267950-eng

i make it easy for you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His tax bracket is 15 percent not 35 but dont let
> facts get in the way


15% is income from dividends. If he made all his money on dividends then there you have it. Or do you expect him to feel guilty for being a success and pay 50% out of guilt. How much extra did you kick in last year?

class warfare Wrote:

>
> 15% is income from dividends. If he made all his
> money on dividends then there you have it. Or do
> you expect him to feel guilty for being a success
> and pay 50% out of guilt. How much extra did you
> kick in last year?


Which is where he made his money. He paid what he was supposed to. I have no problem with what he paid. His money helped out a lot of companies and without rich investors like that a lot of businesses would not be here today.

Its all just bs from the left since they cant run on Obamas accomplishments or record they have to put stuff like this out as a distraction to the real issues

I am amazed at the idiots who buy into obamas class warfare. Blah blah some company made blah blah blah. Making a profit is what companies do. How many of these freaks realize their 401k's are investments dependent on profits?

I know if you are on welfare and food stamps you dont care if a company turns a profit or not but those of us that work do care.
Attachments:

The pubes do not raise taxes the job creators. How many jobs has Romney created? One, his wifes horse trainer.

How does Romney expect GSA to take more million dollar trips to Vegas if people dont pay more in taxes.
Attachments:

small investor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am amazed at the idiots who buy into obamas
> class warfare. Blah blah some company made blah
> blah blah. Making a profit is what companies do.
> How many of these freaks realize their 401k's are
> investments dependent on profits?
>
> I know if you are on welfare and food stamps you
> dont care if a company turns a profit or not but
> those of us that work do care.

I am amazed at the idiots who think it is unreasonable to raise corporate taxes at a time when corporate profit is at an all time high, $1.68 TRILLION in 2011.

In 1950 corporate taxes were 5.5% of GDP, now they're 1.3% of GDP. Payroll taxes, which were 1.6% of GDP in 1950, are now >6%. See what they did there?

How much of those profits ended up as an employer match in 401K accounts?

woof-woof Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The pubes do not raise taxes the job creators. How
> many jobs has Romney created? One, his wifes horse
> trainer.


Youre right. Sports Authority, Staples, Dominos, Brookstone have no employees

Even if the 1 person was true thats still more than Obama

I guess I should come to expect an idea like proportionality to be over the heads of most (all) Tea baggers, but let me try to explain the concept.
See, if you earn way,way,way more money than the average Joe, then the dollar amount of your tax bill is going to be much larger than Joe's. Romney's effective rate or percentage, 13% is equal to, lets say, what someone earning 50K a year pays. If he actually paid what was due 35%, that total goes to over 6 million. So, he just ripped us all off for over 3 million. Get it.

i make it easy for you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Youre right. Sports Authority, Staples, Dominos,
> Brookstone have no employees
>
> Even if the 1 person was true thats still more
> than Obama

The only one in that list that actually makes ANYTHING in the US is Domino's. The rest, for the most part, are pass-thru entities for Chinese made shit. Especially Brookstone. What the fuck? Citing Brookstone as some fucking marvel of Romney's job creation?!? HAHAHAHA!

"I guess I should come to expect an idea like proportionality to be over the heads of most (all) Tea baggers, but let me try to explain the concept"

Here is a concept, the government wastes money. They send fatass employees to Vegas to swill expensive champagne and stay in luxury suites on the pretext of a meeting. All at taxpayer expense. Then a highly paid employee makes a video joking about how they fuck over the taxpyers and nothing happens to him.

You get the massive fraud and waste under control before you come bitching to me about the need for more taxes.

RGross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
So, he just
> ripped us all off for over 3 million. Get it.


The above says it all.

Thanks for being honest.

It's the money of "us" and and he stole it from them.

Could your head be any farther up your own ass?

per diem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I guess I should come to expect an idea like
> proportionality to be over the heads of most (all)
> Tea baggers, but let me try to explain the
> concept"
>
> Here is a concept, the government wastes money.
> They send fatass employees to Vegas to swill
> expensive champagne and stay in luxury suites on
> the pretext of a meeting. All at taxpayer expense.
> Then a highly paid employee makes a video joking
> about how they fuck over the taxpyers and nothing
> happens to him.
>
> You get the massive fraud and waste under control
> before you come bitching to me about the need for
> more taxes.

Total waste of time asking this of the socialists on this site.

They don't want to stop the waste.

"us" wants their share of it too.

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RGross Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> So, he just
> > ripped us all off for over 3 million. Get it.
>
>
> The above says it all.
>
> Thanks for being honest.
>
> It's the money of "us" and and he stole it from
> them.
>
> Could your head be any farther up your own ass?

I do love how the socialists on here believe that money is theirs and that the government is doing people a favor by allowing them to keep any of it

RGross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I should come to expect an idea like
> proportionality to be over the heads of most (all)
> Tea baggers, but let me try to explain the
> concept.
> See, if you earn way,way,way more money than the
> average Joe, then the dollar amount of your tax
> bill is going to be much larger than Joe's.
> Romney's effective rate or percentage, 13% is
> equal to, lets say, what someone earning 50K a
> year pays. If he actually paid what was due 35%,
> that total goes to over 6 million. So, he just
> ripped us all off for over 3 million. Get it.


What I get is that you're a blood sucker.

RGross Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I should come to expect an idea like
> proportionality to be over the heads of most (all)
> Tea baggers, but let me try to explain the
> concept.
> See, if you earn way,way,way more money than the
> average Joe, then the dollar amount of your tax
> bill is going to be much larger than Joe's.
> Romney's effective rate or percentage, 13% is
> equal to, lets say, what someone earning 50K a
> year pays. If he actually paid what was due 35%,
> that total goes to over 6 million. So, he just
> ripped us all off for over 3 million. Get it.

If you actually knew anything about taxes you would know he paid what he was supposed to and his rate is 15% with a 2 percent deduction for charitable donations. I guess I should come to expect facts to be over the head of the socialists on here.

i make it easy for you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RGross Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I guess I should come to expect an idea like
> > proportionality to be over the heads of most
> (all)
> > Tea baggers, but let me try to explain the
> > concept.
> > See, if you earn way,way,way more money than
> the
> > average Joe, then the dollar amount of your tax
> > bill is going to be much larger than Joe's.
> > Romney's effective rate or percentage, 13% is
> > equal to, lets say, what someone earning 50K a
> > year pays. If he actually paid what was due
> 35%,
> > that total goes to over 6 million. So, he just
> > ripped us all off for over 3 million. Get it.
>
> If you actually knew anything about taxes you
> would know he paid what he was supposed to and his
> rate is 15% with a 2 percent deduction for
> charitable donations. I guess I should come to
> expect facts to be over the head of the socialists
> on here.

Socialism? We're fucking talking upside down capitalism...

So Mitt apparently made all his income through capital gains? No sweat. Do you think it's a fair tax rate compared to the working entrepreneurial man that busted his ass building a business on sweat equity? Not so much IMO. I doubt any farmer or small business man paid less. If they did they weren't leasing any equipment they needed to run their business.

I think I could guarantee that most ass-busting middle-class entrepreneurs paid more than that rate. Even those earning $250,000 AGI. Paul Ryan ($262,000?) did and that puts him in the upper 97%.

And I'm certain that Mitt's health insurance premium as a percentage of his income was far, far less than the guy struggling to make payroll every week.

How can you expect Mitt Romney to sympathize with the plight of the upper middle class entrepreneur?

Romney hides his money off shore for one of two reasons.

1) he doesn't believe in America
Or
2) he's trying to cheat America

The republican party is a joke.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Romney hides his money off shore for one of two
> reasons.
>
> 1) he doesn't believe in America
> Or
> 2) he's trying to cheat America
>
> The republican party is a joke.


Except that he does not hide his money off shore, he has legally declared it. If he was doing anything illegal, the IRS would be all over him. Also there is another reason why he keeps money off shore, which is better investments. It is a global economy and diversification is the key.

"Do you think it's a fair tax rate compared to the working entrepreneurial man that busted his ass building a business on sweat equity"

According to Obama no one does that someone else makes it happen. Next question.

It's unacceptable for a public servant, legal or not. Reagan republicans wouldn't touch Romney with a 10' pole.

I'd love to see how much taxes Romney paid in his most successful 3 years.

The reason for both our jobs shortage and revenue shortage stem from one issue: There is not enough liquid capitol flowing around our economy. Concentrating money among the few, not taxing the cash that banks and corporations are sitting on. Sheltering money in the Caimens (much different than investing offshore and even outsourcing jobs.). Reverse those trends (one option) through tax laws and we're out of this rut. Funny, that's the opposite of the Romney/Ryan ethos.

Rmoney is the antithesis of a conservative republican. Pro choice, pro Obamacare Win or loose, this is a historic low for the republican party. Remeber Mud spelled backwards is Dum.

I run a business.

It's nice that I don't have to pay of local officials and gangs for protection.
It's nice that I have all the clean water I need.
It's nice that I have public organizations that advise and connect my business.
It's nice that I can ship or recieve products to and from my door to anywhere in the world.
It's nice that I can freely and easily travel.

This country provided the foundation for my business.

That's why I pay taxes. Republicans either dont get it, or hope you don't get it.

Everyone pays taxes except illegals and those on welfare, which thanks to Obama is growing more every day.
Attachments:

I'm sure there are a ton of illegal aliens that pay a higher tax rate then Rmoney.

Rmoney wants to put America to work....for him and his buddies.

You know Ann is already trying on crowns and practicing her wave.

Biden was rIght on with his shackles comment. But Romney ain't racist. He wants you as his serf regardless of your color.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2012 08:19AM by Atom.

Romney and other fat cat CEO's need to start paying their fair share. This bullshit of giving rich people tax breaks because it will create jobs is ridiculous. It's has never created jobs. It just lets the rich buy a new Beach house in the Bahamas and fuel up their Learjet sitting at foreign airports.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I run a business.
>
> It's nice that I don't have to pay of local
> officials and gangs for protection.
> It's nice that I have all the clean water I need.
> It's nice that I have public organizations that
> advise and connect my business.
> It's nice that I can ship or recieve products to
> and from my door to anywhere in the world.
> It's nice that I can freely and easily travel.

Every citizen in the country have all of those nice things whether or not they own a business. The difference is that if you built a business, YOU built it. If you didn't build a business you still all the nice things. The infrastructure didn't the business.

Divesify Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I run a business.
> >
> > It's nice that I don't have to pay of local
> > officials and gangs for protection.
> > It's nice that I have all the clean water I
> need.
> > It's nice that I have public organizations that
> > advise and connect my business.
> > It's nice that I can ship or recieve products
> to
> > and from my door to anywhere in the world.
> > It's nice that I can freely and easily travel.
>
> Every citizen in the country have all of those
> nice things whether or not they own a business.
> The difference is that if you built a business,
> YOU built it. If you didn't build a business you
> still all the nice things. The infrastructure
> didn't the business.

95% of businesses in the US are built by investors, bank loans or shifty dealings. Let's face facts, you can't just "start your own" business any more. You need investors to compete.

Reality Check 4 U Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Divesify Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Atom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I run a business.
> > >
> > > It's nice that I don't have to pay of local
> > > officials and gangs for protection.
> > > It's nice that I have all the clean water I
> > need.
> > > It's nice that I have public organizations
> that
> > > advise and connect my business.
> > > It's nice that I can ship or recieve products
> > to
> > > and from my door to anywhere in the world.
> > > It's nice that I can freely and easily
> travel.
> >
> > Every citizen in the country have all of those
> > nice things whether or not they own a business.
>
> > The difference is that if you built a business,
> > YOU built it. If you didn't build a business
> you
> > still all the nice things. The infrastructure
> > didn't the business.
>
> 95% of businesses in the US are built by
> investors, bank loans or shifty dealings. Let's
> face facts, you can't just "start your own"
> business any more. You need investors to compete.


No, businesses are built by entrepreneurs. They are sometimes financed by investors, bank loans and other forms of capital, big difference. Please show me your facts that you can't just "start your own" business any more. This is just loser mentality. There is more opportunity today than there ever has been.

Reality Check 4 U Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Divesify Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Atom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I run a business.
> > >
> > > It's nice that I don't have to pay of local
> > > officials and gangs for protection.
> > > It's nice that I have all the clean water I
> > need.
> > > It's nice that I have public organizations
> that
> > > advise and connect my business.
> > > It's nice that I can ship or recieve products
> > to
> > > and from my door to anywhere in the world.
> > > It's nice that I can freely and easily
> travel.
> >
> > Every citizen in the country have all of those
> > nice things whether or not they own a business.
>
> > The difference is that if you built a business,
> > YOU built it. If you didn't build a business
> you
> > still all the nice things. The infrastructure
> > didn't the business.
>
> 95% of businesses in the US are built by
> investors, bank loans or shifty dealings. Let's
> face facts, you can't just "start your own"
> business any more. You need investors to compete.


BS. I started mine with a total investment of about $2,500. I broke even within the first 6 months. I now pull about $250K/year from it (net, not gross). I've very purposely never taken any capital from investors or taken loans from banks (I do have a credit line that I use for very short-term cash flow) or taken any money from any government program nor any "shifty dealings." Out of about 5 businesses which were my primary competitors, I'm one of two remaining after the downturn largely because neither of us over-extended our businesses by doing the above.

Diversify above is exactly right. There's more opportunity than ever these days. Not to say that some businesses don't require large up-front investments but there are plenty which don't. Your biggest limitations are your own abilities and creativity or lack thereof not the "system."

Diversify Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reality Check 4 U Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Divesify Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Atom Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I run a business.
> > > >
> > > > It's nice that I don't have to pay of local
> > > > officials and gangs for protection.
> > > > It's nice that I have all the clean water I
> > > need.
> > > > It's nice that I have public organizations
> > that
> > > > advise and connect my business.
> > > > It's nice that I can ship or recieve
> products
> > > to
> > > > and from my door to anywhere in the world.
> > > > It's nice that I can freely and easily
> > travel.
> > >
> > > Every citizen in the country have all of
> those
> > > nice things whether or not they own a
> business.
> >
> > > The difference is that if you built a
> business,
> > > YOU built it. If you didn't build a business
> > you
> > > still all the nice things. The
> infrastructure
> > > didn't the business.
> >
> > 95% of businesses in the US are built by
> > investors, bank loans or shifty dealings.
> Let's
> > face facts, you can't just "start your own"
> > business any more. You need investors to
> compete.
>
>
> No, businesses are built by entrepreneurs. They
> are sometimes financed by investors, bank loans
> and other forms of capital, big difference.
> Please show me your facts that you can't just
> "start your own" business any more. This is just
> loser mentality. There is more opportunity today
> than there ever has been.

Go ask a poor kid standing the corner if he wants to work hard and start his own business? He'll say yes every time.

Then ask him why he can't. Why? The major reason is money and lack of education.

Create-a-job Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reality Check 4 U Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Divesify Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Atom Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I run a business.
> > > >
> > > > It's nice that I don't have to pay of local
> > > > officials and gangs for protection.
> > > > It's nice that I have all the clean water I
> > > need.
> > > > It's nice that I have public organizations
> > that
> > > > advise and connect my business.
> > > > It's nice that I can ship or recieve
> products
> > > to
> > > > and from my door to anywhere in the world.
> > > > It's nice that I can freely and easily
> > travel.
> > >
> > > Every citizen in the country have all of
> those
> > > nice things whether or not they own a
> business.
> >
> > > The difference is that if you built a
> business,
> > > YOU built it. If you didn't build a business
> > you
> > > still all the nice things. The
> infrastructure
> > > didn't the business.
> >
> > 95% of businesses in the US are built by
> > investors, bank loans or shifty dealings.
> Let's
> > face facts, you can't just "start your own"
> > business any more. You need investors to
> compete.
>
>
> BS. I started mine with a total investment of
> about $2,500. I broke even within the first 6
> months. I now pull about $250K/year from it (net,
> not gross). I've very purposely never taken any
> capital from investors or taken loans from banks
> (I do have a credit line that I use for very
> short-term cash flow) or taken any money from any
> government program nor any "shifty dealings." Out
> of about 5 businesses which were my primary
> competitors, I'm one of two remaining after the
> downturn largely because neither of us
> over-extended our businesses by doing the above.
>
>
> Diversify above is exactly right. There's more
> opportunity than ever these days. Not to say that
> some businesses don't require large up-front
> investments but there are plenty which don't.
> Your biggest limitations are your own abilities
> and creativity or lack thereof not the "system."

^^ Complete bullshit ^^

> Go ask a poor kid standing the corner if he wants
> to work hard and start his own business? He'll
> say yes every time.
>
> Then ask him why he can't. Why? The major reason
> is money and lack of education.

This is loser or the victim mentality which is used as an excuse to keep people in mediocrity. Most people don't understand the difference between a job and opening your own business. When you open a business, you risk everything, this is nothing new, but there are no gaurantees that your business will succeed or that you will make dime one. Since 90% of small businesses eventually fail or close up shop, it is not for everyone. Some kid standing on the corner is probably not motivated enough to be a successful entrepreneur.

By the way, lack of education is not an excuse for not opening a business. Many successful entrepreneurs do not have a college education. There are many free business courses available online to teach entrepreneurship. Tell that kid to get off the street corner and onto a computer and learn. Yes he is responsible for his future.

Easy Money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So Mitt apparently made all his income through
> capital gains? No sweat. Do you think it's a fair
> tax rate compared to the working entrepreneurial
> man that busted his ass building a business on
> sweat equity? Not so much IMO. I doubt any farmer
> or small business man paid less. If they did they
> weren't leasing any equipment they needed to run
> their business.


Yes it is fair. Someone with a job is assured to make money. Someone investing could lose every last penny of it. There has to be an incentive


> I think I could guarantee that most ass-busting
> middle-class entrepreneurs paid more than that
> rate. Even those earning $250,000 AGI. Paul Ryan
> ($262,000?) did and that puts him in the upper
> 97%.

Thats from jobs not investments. You dont seem to understand money at all.

> And I'm certain that Mitt's health insurance
> premium as a percentage of his income was far, far
> less than the guy struggling to make payroll every
> week.

Which has nothing to do with anything? So now you want the rich to have higher health insurance costs too. Well comrade thats bullshit

> How can you expect Mitt Romney to sympathize with
> the plight of the upper middle class entrepreneur?

This isnt even an argument. Why cant liberals ever deal in facts? Why do they have to just put out a bunch of bullshit lies every time they open their mouths?

i make it easy for you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Easy Money Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > So Mitt apparently made all his income through
> > capital gains? No sweat. Do you think it's a
> fair
> > tax rate compared to the working
> entrepreneurial
> > man that busted his ass building a business on
> > sweat equity? Not so much IMO. I doubt any
> farmer
> > or small business man paid less. If they did
> they
> > weren't leasing any equipment they needed to
> run
> > their business.
>
>
> Yes it is fair. Someone with a job is assured to
> make money. Someone investing could lose every
> last penny of it. There has to be an incentive


How do you figure someone with a job is assured of making money? Plenty of companies have run off without paying employees.

Is there more risk as an owner to be sued? Sure, but there is also more profit and freedom.

Fantasy World! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> ^^ Complete bullshit ^^


Absolutely not complete bullshit. Sorry that you consider it unbelievable. That's a big part of why you'll never be able to do the same.

Qwestor Wrote:

> How do you figure someone with a job is assured of
> making money? Plenty of companies have run off
> without paying employees.


> Is there more risk as an owner to be sued? Sure,
> but there is also more profit and freedom.


Then quit your job and invest all your money and live off that since you seem to think its a sure thing.

And without that investor you dont get a paycheck for sure but everyone always leaves that part out.

i make it easy for you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Qwestor Wrote:
>
> > How do you figure someone with a job is assured
> of
> > making money? Plenty of companies have run off
> > without paying employees.
>
>
> > Is there more risk as an owner to be sued?
> Sure,
> > but there is also more profit and freedom.
>
>
> Then quit your job and invest all your money and
> live off that since you seem to think its a sure
> thing.
>
> And without that investor you dont get a paycheck
> for sure but everyone always leaves that part out.

That's my point. The poor don't have any money to start with unless maybe a government program helps them out.

If the government needs some ditch dug and I guy wants to start a company that digs ditches what the problem?

Qwestor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Is there more risk as an owner to be sued? Sure,
> but there is also more profit and freedom.


LOL! You've obviously never run your own business. After paying employees, vendors, taxes, and money necessary to keep in the business in order to maintain it, I get paid last out of whatever's left over. Ask anyone who has actually started and run a business how much freedom they have and watch them laugh in your face. It's far easier to go work for someone else. Lots of benefits but if you want a business to be successful, you're pretty much going to the wed to it for a long time.

i make it easy for you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Easy Money Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > So Mitt apparently made all his income through
> > capital gains? No sweat. Do you think it's a
> fair
> > tax rate compared to the working
> entrepreneurial
> > man that busted his ass building a business on
> > sweat equity? Not so much IMO. I doubt any
> farmer
> > or small business man paid less. If they did
> they
> > weren't leasing any equipment they needed to
> run
> > their business.
>
>
> Yes it is fair. Someone with a job is assured to
> make money. Someone investing could lose every
> last penny of it. There has to be an incentive
>
>
> > I think I could guarantee that most ass-busting
> > middle-class entrepreneurs paid more than that
> > rate. Even those earning $250,000 AGI. Paul
> Ryan
> > ($262,000?) did and that puts him in the upper
> > 97%.
>
> Thats from jobs not investments. You dont seem to
> understand money at all.
>
> > And I'm certain that Mitt's health insurance
> > premium as a percentage of his income was far,
> far
> > less than the guy struggling to make payroll
> every
> > week.
>
> Which has nothing to do with anything? So now you
> want the rich to have higher health insurance
> costs too. Well comrade thats bullshit
>
> > How can you expect Mitt Romney to sympathize
> with
> > the plight of the upper middle class
> entrepreneur?
>
> This isnt even an argument. Why cant liberals
> ever deal in facts? Why do they have to just put
> out a bunch of bullshit lies every time they open
> their mouths?



All we hear out of you is a bunch of deluded blustering bullshit. That isn't kool-aid you've been drinking. It's Romney's piss.

If your business is a success you can be sure Obama will take credit for it. If it flops like Solyndra he will blame Bush and Republicans.

The one thing that turns me against Barry is his constant blaming of others. It gets old fast. If I hired a GM for my business and the best he could do after almost four years is blame the guy before him he would be fired.

Qwestor Wrote:
>
> How do you figure someone with a job is assured of
> making money? Plenty of companies have run off
> without paying employees.

Questor- I have to partially agree with you here. Not necessarily that comapnies run off without paying their employees, but that large and medium companies are shedding jobs. There is no longer a gaurantee of a job and the administration is preventing employment to drop below 8%. So this creates huge opportunities for people to fill in the voids left by these layoffs. But people have to stop whining about the government helping them and start helping theirselves. If you lack the knowledge, educate yourself and get out and do it.

Gov Pro Wrote:
> That's my point. The poor don't have any money to start with unless maybe a government program helps them out.

> If the government needs some ditch dug and I guy wants to start a company that digs ditches what the problem.

Gov Pro- It does not take a government program to start a business digging ditches. All it takes is a shovel and some initaitive. You then build from the one shovel.

Create-a-job Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> BS. I started mine with a total investment of
> about $2,500. I broke even within the first 6
> months. I now pull about $250K/year from it (net,
> not gross).

I've got know what business can be started for $2,500?????

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Create-a-job Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > BS. I started mine with a total investment of
> > about $2,500. I broke even within the first 6
> > months. I now pull about $250K/year from it
> (net,
> > not gross).
>
> I've got know what business can be started for
> $2,500?????

Ever heard of Google? Try using it. Here I did it for you since you might have trouble. Here is a list of businesses that you can start with $5,000 or less, several for $2,500 or less. Of course you will not get off your ass and actually start a business, but now you know.

http://www.businesspundit.com/15-businesses-you-can-start-with-5000-or-less/

Gov Pro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That's my point. The poor don't have any money to
> start with unless maybe a government program helps
> them out.

No its not you obviously think its a given on any investment. All you have to do is invest anything and itll go from your logic.

> If the government needs some ditch dug and I guy
> wants to start a company that digs ditches what
> the problem?

Are you high? What does this have to do with anything? Lets try facts from now on

Easy Money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> All we hear out of you is a bunch of deluded
> blustering bullshit. That isn't kool-aid you've
> been drinking. It's Romney's piss.


Yet another highly intelligent statement out of you. I see your just going straight from the liberal playbook. Step 1 say bullshit and hope it wins the argument. Step 2 when you get called on it switch to personal attacks. Next will be the race card or some other bullshit.

Still waiting for a single fact to come from you

Look it up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Say What? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Create-a-job Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > BS. I started mine with a total investment
> of
> > > about $2,500. I broke even within the first
> 6
> > > months. I now pull about $250K/year from it
> > (net,
> > > not gross).
> >
> > I've got know what business can be started for
> > $2,500?????
>
> Ever heard of Google? Try using it. Here I did it
> for you since you might have trouble. Here is a
> list of businesses that you can start with $5,000
> or less, several for $2,500 or less. Of course
> you will not get off your ass and actually start a
> business, but now you know.
>
> http://www.businesspundit.com/15-businesses-you-ca
> n-start-with-5000-or-less/

Laughable, those businesses are dime a dozen. You'd have a better chance of winning the lottery then making money with those businesses.

Pet sitting, phone apps, LMAO!

i make it easy for you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Easy Money Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > All we hear out of you is a bunch of deluded
> > blustering bullshit. That isn't kool-aid you've
> > been drinking. It's Romney's piss.
>
>
> Yet another highly intelligent statement out of
> you. I see your just going straight from the
> liberal playbook. Step 1 say bullshit and hope it
> wins the argument. Step 2 when you get called on
> it switch to personal attacks. Next will be the
> race card or some other bullshit.
>
> Still waiting for a single fact to come from you


The other point is that they invent some disenfranchised group of people (like the kid on the street corner) and talk about how hard it is for those people. They have no interest in starting a business themselves so they say it is unfair for others.

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look it up Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Say What? Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Create-a-job Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > > BS. I started mine with a total investment
> > of
> > > > about $2,500. I broke even within the
> first
> > 6
> > > > months. I now pull about $250K/year from
> it
> > > (net,
> > > > not gross).
> > >
> > > I've got know what business can be started
> for
> > > $2,500?????
> >
> > Ever heard of Google? Try using it. Here I did
> it
> > for you since you might have trouble. Here is
> a
> > list of businesses that you can start with
> $5,000
> > or less, several for $2,500 or less. Of course
> > you will not get off your ass and actually start
> a
> > business, but now you know.
> >
> >
> http://www.businesspundit.com/15-businesses-you-ca
>
> > n-start-with-5000-or-less/
>
> Laughable, those businesses are dime a dozen.
> You'd have a better chance of winning the lottery
> then making money with those businesses.
>
> Pet sitting, phone apps, LMAO!

Simple minds are easily amused. You asked what opportunities were available for under $2,500 and I showed you. Yes money can be made in each of those enterprises, but not by someone like you. I can tell that you have no entrepreneurial knowledge or even interest, so sit back and enjoy your government job.

Diversify Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Say What? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Look it up Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Say What? Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Create-a-job Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > >
> > > > > BS. I started mine with a total
> investment
> > > of
> > > > > about $2,500. I broke even within the
> > first
> > > 6
> > > > > months. I now pull about $250K/year from
> > it
> > > > (net,
> > > > > not gross).
> > > >
> > > > I've got know what business can be started
> > for
> > > > $2,500?????
> > >
> > > Ever heard of Google? Try using it. Here I
> did
> > it
> > > for you since you might have trouble. Here
> is
> > a
> > > list of businesses that you can start with
> > $5,000
> > > or less, several for $2,500 or less. Of
> course
> > > you will not get off your ass and actually
> start
> > a
> > > business, but now you know.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.businesspundit.com/15-businesses-you-ca
>
> >
> > > n-start-with-5000-or-less/
> >
> > Laughable, those businesses are dime a dozen.
> > You'd have a better chance of winning the
> lottery
> > then making money with those businesses.
> >
> > Pet sitting, phone apps, LMAO!
>
> Simple minds are easily amused. You asked what
> opportunities were available for under $2,500 and
> I showed you. Yes money can be made in each of
> those enterprises, but not by someone like you. I
> can tell that you have no entrepreneurial
> knowledge or even interest, so sit back and enjoy
> your government job.

We would all like to own successful businesses but unless are daddy's rich or a bank is going to lend a shitload of money than forget about.

Nobody can start a business out of the blue for $2500. Now I can see somebody saying "I got a job for you but you'll need $2500 worth of equipment to start."

Possibly I could see somebody printing up $2500 worth of lawncare flyers and making it in business. Other than that, no way, somebody has to give you a start.

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Create-a-job Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > BS. I started mine with a total investment of
> > about $2,500. I broke even within the first 6
> > months. I now pull about $250K/year from it
> (net,
> > not gross).
>
> I've got know what business can be started for
> $2,500?????


It's a fairly boring niche-type product that I designed. Basically a better mousetrap for a particular application. I'd post it but around here I'd have idiots fucking with me just to fuck with me.

The initial money went to some relatively basic tooling, materials, web site hosting, merchant account, LLC registration, etc., to get started. Did the production, sales, web site, customer service, shipping, etc., all myself and worked out of my house so no rent or facilities costs. Once I had things up and running and had enough sales coming in to support it I went to outsourcing most of the production and used some local work-from-home folks to do final assembly and packaging. Still do fulfillment and shipping out of here. There were other larger expenses along the way for things like patents, accounting and legal support, etc., but I did that at the point that I had enough business to justify it. Did the same for several other products/variations and picked up some larger commercial and wholesale customers along the way.

It's a ton of work but if you have a good product that sells with some reasonable margin in it, then it's really not that hard to believe. Go to any special-interest forum and you'll find lots of folks who have done exactly the same thing. Just as an example, 15,000 units represents < 1% of what I'd estimate for the total annual market for one of my products. With the web that's not a particularly tough target to meet these days. If you can't capture that then you probably shouldn't even be bothering with it. 15,000 units/year = an average of about 50 sales/day over 300 selling days x $20 margin/unit = $300,000 profit before taxes. You can adjust the market share, margin, units, as you want but not hard to see how the basic math can work.

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Diversify Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Say What? Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Look it up Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Say What? Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Create-a-job Wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----
> > > > >
> > > > > > BS. I started mine with a total
> > investment
> > > > of
> > > > > > about $2,500. I broke even within the
> > > first
> > > > 6
> > > > > > months. I now pull about $250K/year
> from
> > > it
> > > > > (net,
> > > > > > not gross).
> > > > >
> > > > > I've got know what business can be
> started
> > > for
> > > > > $2,500?????
> > > >
> > > > Ever heard of Google? Try using it. Here I
> > did
> > > it
> > > > for you since you might have trouble. Here
> > is
> > > a
> > > > list of businesses that you can start with
> > > $5,000
> > > > or less, several for $2,500 or less. Of
> > course
> > > > you will not get off your ass and actually
> > start
> > > a
> > > > business, but now you know.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.businesspundit.com/15-businesses-you-ca
>
> >
> > >
> > > > n-start-with-5000-or-less/
> > >
> > > Laughable, those businesses are dime a dozen.
>
> > > You'd have a better chance of winning the
> > lottery
> > > then making money with those businesses.
> > >
> > > Pet sitting, phone apps, LMAO!
> >
> > Simple minds are easily amused. You asked what
> > opportunities were available for under $2,500
> and
> > I showed you. Yes money can be made in each of
> > those enterprises, but not by someone like you.
> I
> > can tell that you have no entrepreneurial
> > knowledge or even interest, so sit back and
> enjoy
> > your government job.
>
> We would all like to own successful businesses but
> unless are daddy's rich or a bank is going to lend
> a shitload of money than forget about.
>
> Nobody can start a business out of the blue for
> $2500. Now I can see somebody saying "I got a job
> for you but you'll need $2500 worth of equipment
> to start."
>
> Possibly I could see somebody printing up $2500
> worth of lawncare flyers and making it in
> business. Other than that, no way, somebody has
> to give you a start.


Very good, you are following the liberal play book as outlined by i make it easy for you above. You are at step 1 say bullshit and hope it wins the argument. You provide no facts to support your claims, so I call BS on you.

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've got know what business can be started for
> $2,500?????

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We would all like to own successful businesses but
> unless are daddy's rich or a bank is going to lend
> a shitload of money than forget about.
>
> Nobody can start a business out of the blue for
> $2500. Now I can see somebody saying "I got a job
> for you but you'll need $2500 worth of equipment
> to start."
>
> Possibly I could see somebody printing up $2500
> worth of lawncare flyers and making it in
> business. Other than that, no way, somebody has
> to give you a start.

Sorry but you've got your head up your ass. Nobody said it was easy to build a business from scratch but it's done all the time. They're not all successful but many are and they usually don't pay big overnight. You gotta be willing to bust your ass with little to no pay for 3 to 5 years until you've built a market for your product or service, learn how to be profitable and plow those profits back into the business to grow.

If it was easy, everyone would be doing it. You're clearly not cut out for the task.

How does someone go six months on $2500? That included all of your productions expenses, marketing, shipping etc?

Sorry I just can buy the fact that it was only $2500 and that you didn't have any buyers when you started.

I'm guessing you had somebody who said, "If you make this cheaper I'll buy from you and that person was a friend or business owner."

I'm not saying that can't be done in poor circles but the big business owners and deals don't happen in the ghetto. They happen between rich kids and CEO's.

He had a full-time job and started up a business on the side.

You can make a business from scratch. Usually, it's in something that's related to what you do at work or in a hobby where you've already invested a lot of time and had interest from others.

CEO bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How does someone go six months on $2500? That
> included all of your productions expenses,
> marketing, shipping etc?
>
> Sorry I just can buy the fact that it was only
> $2500 and that you didn't have any buyers when you
> started.
>

I didn't say that I went 6 months on $2,500. I said that's about what I put into it up front to get started. I was making income from each sale from the start. As I sold more, I bought more materials and upgraded my equipment. Rinse and repeat, making more and selling more. Within 6 months I was at the point where I'd made back all of the money that I'd put into it to that point and it was generating enough profit over costs to be self-supporting going forward.

Beyond initial tooling and materials production expenses basically were my own time. Marketing was via the web site and directly to a particular market with a known demand. No major expenses for that and I still rely almost entirely on word of mouth and reputation for my marketing so my customers do most of that for me. Shipping costs are paid separately so that's a wash.


> I'm guessing you had somebody who said, "If you
> make this cheaper I'll buy from you and that
> person was a friend or business owner."
>

Nope, it was an idea re something that I was familiar with that I'd had for a long time and just never did anything with. The company where I was working went under and I was tired of doing the corporate thing so I finally had the incentive to get off of my ass and do it. Not the approach that I'd recommend. Would have been a whole lot easier to have started it on the side while I was still working. But it did force the issue and it worked out well in the end.

Sorry, I know you want to find some 'Ah ha!' but there's really not one. I had big enterprise-level business experience but nothing along the lines of making and selling a product directly. Nobody to help get things started or point me in the right direction. Just a good idea for a better product at a better price. Again, really not that unique. You can go to any almost any special-interest forum and find many examples of people who have done exactly the same thing with similar niche-type products. Obviously, not all of them make it but a lot do.

Ok, I believe you but your story is one in a thousand. Generally speaking people who start a business need a loan from the bank or connections. Very rarely does a business succeed when starting on the capital of $2500.

Congratulations, you were very lucky.

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I believe you but your story is one in a
> thousand. Generally speaking people who start a
> business need a loan from the bank or connections.
> Very rarely does a business succeed when starting
> on the capital of $2500.
>
> Congratulations, you were very lucky.

It sounds like you don't know anyone who has started their own business. It sounds like you want a fat check handed to you and guaranteed business plan. There is no such thing.

The people who believe in such things usually cash in their home equity and sink $250,000 into a franchise like a Cold Stone Creamery or a Quizno's. Two surefire ways of losing your ass.

You can start a business on $2500. You just don't have any ideas and your expectations of income in the early stages are unrealistic.

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I believe you but your story is one in a
> thousand. Generally speaking people who start a
> business need a loan from the bank or connections.
> Very rarely does a business succeed when starting
> on the capital of $2500.
>
> Congratulations, you were very lucky.


You know nothing about business and you have not shown any facts, just talking out your ass. If someone starts a successful business with a small investment you write them off as lucky, even though he explained what he went through to build his business. No matter how much money you might have to start a business, you would not know what it takes to make it successful.

Diversify Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Say What? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ok, I believe you but your story is one in a
> > thousand. Generally speaking people who start
> a
> > business need a loan from the bank or
> connections.
> > Very rarely does a business succeed when
> starting
> > on the capital of $2500.
> >
> > Congratulations, you were very lucky.
>
>
> You know nothing about business and you have not
> shown any facts, just talking out your ass. If
> someone starts a successful business with a small
> investment you write them off as lucky, even
> though he explained what he went through to build
> his business. No matter how much money you might
> have to start a business, you would not know what
> it takes to make it successful.

It doesn't require any extensive knowledge about business to start a small business. If you can manage your personal finances and manage to stay out of debt, you can probably handle the basics.

What it really takes is vision, initiative and work ethic. That and a few brains cells to rub together and you're more than 50% of the way there. Common sense business practices can easily be learned, and they're best learned with something small. This guy doesn't seem to have the basics.

Tom Wu Wrote:

>
> It sounds like you don't know anyone who has
> started their own business. It sounds like you
> want a fat check handed to you and guaranteed
> business plan. There is no such thing.
>
> The people who believe in such things usually cash
> in their home equity and sink $250,000 into a
> franchise like a Cold Stone Creamery or a
> Quizno's. Two surefire ways of losing your ass.
>
> You can start a business on $2500. You just don't
> have any ideas and your expectations of income in
> the early stages are unrealistic.


you sir OBVIOUSLY havennt been out in the real world where Banks and firms get 0% interest loans from the government, jack up the interest rate when lending to the plebes and then making MINT BANK MOUNTAINS OF CASH! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH IVY LEAGUE BITCHES! its the RITCH RITCH WITH THEIR RITCH CONNECTIONS!

Vince(!) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Wu Wrote:
>
> >
> > It sounds like you don't know anyone who has
> > started their own business. It sounds like you
> > want a fat check handed to you and guaranteed
> > business plan. There is no such thing.
> >
> > The people who believe in such things usually
> cash
> > in their home equity and sink $250,000 into a
> > franchise like a Cold Stone Creamery or a
> > Quizno's. Two surefire ways of losing your ass.
> >
> > You can start a business on $2500. You just
> don't
> > have any ideas and your expectations of income
> in
> > the early stages are unrealistic.
>
>
> you sir OBVIOUSLY havennt been out in the real
> world where Banks and firms get 0% interest loans
> from the government, jack up the interest rate
> when lending to the plebes and then making MINT
> BANK MOUNTAINS OF CASH! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH IVY
> LEAGUE BITCHES! its the RITCH RITCH WITH THEIR
> RITCH CONNECTIONS!

Hmm yes, that is true but don't tell the plebes. Some of my best friends with connections get me money straight from the Fed discount window. No paper work or nothing!

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I believe you but your story is one in a
> thousand. Generally speaking people who start a
> business need a loan from the bank or connections.
> Very rarely does a business succeed when starting
> on the capital of $2500.
>
> Congratulations, you were very lucky.

$2500 is just the cost of goods and small equipment. It doesn't cover his salary and other expenses. He obviously had money saved up to cover his own expenses during the six months, had access to monetary support from company severance and unemployment insurance, and had access to health insurance through a spouse or COBRA.

Tom Wu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Diversify Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Say What? Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Ok, I believe you but your story is one in a
> > > thousand. Generally speaking people who
> start
> > a
> > > business need a loan from the bank or
> > connections.
> > > Very rarely does a business succeed when
> > starting
> > > on the capital of $2500.
> > >
> > > Congratulations, you were very lucky.
> >
> >
> > You know nothing about business and you have
> not
> > shown any facts, just talking out your ass. If
> > someone starts a successful business with a
> small
> > investment you write them off as lucky, even
> > though he explained what he went through to
> build
> > his business. No matter how much money you
> might
> > have to start a business, you would not know
> what
> > it takes to make it successful.
>
> It doesn't require any extensive knowledge about
> business to start a small business. If you can
> manage your personal finances and manage to stay
> out of debt, you can probably handle the basics.
>
> What it really takes is vision, initiative and
> work ethic. That and a few brains cells to rub
> together and you're more than 50% of the way
> there. Common sense business practices can easily
> be learned, and they're best learned with
> something small. This guy doesn't seem to have the
> basics.


Agreed Tom. I also think another reason why this guy has no idea about small businesses is that most of them are not visible. They are in office buildings or industrial parks or peoples homes. Many start out in homes or shared offices. A lot of the visible small businesses are franchises or dealerships which do require a capital investment. Rather than learning the facts, he just takes the lazy way out and spouts nonsense.

Diversify Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom Wu Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Diversify Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Say What? Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Ok, I believe you but your story is one in
> a
> > > > thousand. Generally speaking people who
> > start
> > > a
> > > > business need a loan from the bank or
> > > connections.
> > > > Very rarely does a business succeed when
> > > starting
> > > > on the capital of $2500.
> > > >
> > > > Congratulations, you were very lucky.
> > >
> > >
> > > You know nothing about business and you have
> > not
> > > shown any facts, just talking out your ass.
> If
> > > someone starts a successful business with a
> > small
> > > investment you write them off as lucky, even
> > > though he explained what he went through to
> > build
> > > his business. No matter how much money you
> > might
> > > have to start a business, you would not know
> > what
> > > it takes to make it successful.
> >
> > It doesn't require any extensive knowledge
> about
> > business to start a small business. If you can
> > manage your personal finances and manage to
> stay
> > out of debt, you can probably handle the
> basics.
> >
> > What it really takes is vision, initiative and
> > work ethic. That and a few brains cells to rub
> > together and you're more than 50% of the way
> > there. Common sense business practices can
> easily
> > be learned, and they're best learned with
> > something small. This guy doesn't seem to have
> the
> > basics.
>
>
> Agreed Tom. I also think another reason why this
> guy has no idea about small businesses is that
> most of them are not visible. They are in office
> buildings or industrial parks or peoples homes.
> Many start out in homes or shared offices. A lot
> of the visible small businesses are franchises or
> dealerships which do require a capital investment.
> Rather than learning the facts, he just takes the
> lazy way out and spouts nonsense.

I hate to burst your bubble but I own a business. I did however get capital from a bank to start it. It's not Amway and I don't resell items off craigslist or eBay. It's a real business.

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate to burst your bubble but I own a business.
> I did however get capital from a bank to start it.
> It's not Amway and I don't resell items off
> craigslist or eBay. It's a real business.


I think you're missing the point. Someone insists that you can't start a business for $2500. That's complete crap. Would it have a "brick & mortar" presence beyond someone's garage or basement? Probably not. Would such a business generate enough profit to earn a living wage? Probably not in the first year or two, but maybe in three to four years. And eventually it would or certainly could if it was well thought out and someone worked hard on it to execute.

Ok, yes anybody can start a business for under $500 (licensing, taxes, permits, Inc or LLC documentation.) I was saying a profitable business with in the first couple of months. A business you can support a family on and put away money for retirement.

Without capital or help, good luck with that.

Can anybody start up a lemonaide stand with little money and almost no permits. Sure, but can they live of the income? No!

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, yes anybody can start a business for under
> $500 (licensing, taxes, permits, Inc or LLC
> documentation.) I was saying a profitable
> business with in the first couple of months. A
> business you can support a family on and put away
> money for retirement.
>
> Without capital or help, good luck with that.

Even with capital, borrowed or not, it is extremely rare for a business to be profitable within the "first couple of months". If it was that easy, banks would be lending money hand over fist. What you have described is the exception to the rule. How do you build sales and clientele that quickly? Do you set up operations that are a copy of your former employer and aggressively poach customers? I'd like to to see the pitch of that business plan to a banker.

>
> Can anybody start up a lemonaide stand with little
> money and almost no permits. Sure, but can they
> live of the income? No!

Being able to live off the profit and being profitable are two different things.

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, yes anybody can start a business for under
> $500 (licensing, taxes, permits, Inc or LLC
> documentation.) I was saying a profitable
> business with in the first couple of months. A
> business you can support a family on and put away
> money for retirement.
>
> Without capital or help, good luck with that.
>
> Can anybody start up a lemonaide stand with little
> money and almost no permits. Sure, but can they
> live of the income? No!


First I have to call BS on you saying you own your own business. You have an employee mentality and expect a business to be profitable right away. As Tom Wu already said it most often never happens. If you do own your own business you would have done a cash flow projection and analysis and would have realized this.

Also, most businesses never reach profitablity. Hence why over 90% fail, but you really owned a business you would know that.

Since you had to know what business Create-a-job started, it is only fair that you share with us what your business is and the steps you took to make it profitable in a couple of months.

Say What? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, yes anybody can start a business for under
> $500 (licensing, taxes, permits, Inc or LLC
> documentation.) I was saying a profitable
> business with in the first couple of months. A
> business you can support a family on and put away
> money for retirement.
>
> Without capital or help, good luck with that.
>
> Can anybody start up a lemonaide stand with little
> money and almost no permits. Sure, but can they
> live of the income? No!

You clearly dont understand businesses if you think they make money from day 1 and are saving for retirement in a few months.

Romney needs to pay more taxes so I can take more trips.

Thanks Suckers!!
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