eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stop talking to yourself; never mind, post away,
> I'm reporting all your posts Alias. Cary hates you
> with a passion.


Alias still posting. eesh loses once again.

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fuzzy wuzzy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That is because you are eesh.
>
> Well, of course I am.
>
> I'm Harry Tuttle, too. (I like the way that plays
> on my tongue)

Patrick's number. Google it for proof. Call his father and let him know all about his son, the child molester who was fired from being a teacher's assisant for trying to touch a 9 year old boy.

I like big black men!


Love,

eesh

703-***-**** Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Google it for proof...


Okay, if (1) that's P's phone number, and (2) he was not fired for the stated reason, P has a straightforward "defamation per se" claim against whoever posted that comment.

Assuming (1) and (2), there is definitely enough to get a judge to issue a subpoena to FU to determine the poster's ISP, and then a subpoena to the ISP to determine the identity of the poster.

This is black letter Virginia law:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+8.01-407.1 (a codification of this case: http://pub.bna.com/eclr/40570.htm)

@ Patrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Assuming (1) and (2), there is definitely enough
> to get a judge to issue a subpoena to FU to
> determine the poster's ISP, and then a subpoena to
> the ISP to determine the identity of the poster.
>

Lol at a judge issuing a subpoena to Cary for the above poster's IP address.

But let's just say that it happened(which it never would), what happens when said IP turns out to be a TOR exit node?

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Patrick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Assuming (1) and (2), there is definitely
> enough
> > to get a judge to issue a subpoena to FU to
> > determine the poster's ISP, and then a subpoena
> to
> > the ISP to determine the identity of the
> poster.
> >
>
> Lol at a judge issuing a subpoena to Cary for the
> above poster's IP address.
>
> But let's just say that it happened(which it
> never would), what happens when said IP turns out
> to be a TOR exit node?


Well played, eesh!

@ Patrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 703-***-**** Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Google it for proof...
>
>
> Okay, if (1) that's P's phone number, and (2) he
> was not fired for the stated reason, P has a
> straightforward "defamation per se" claim against
> whoever posted that comment.
>
> Assuming (1) and (2), there is definitely enough
> to get a judge to issue a subpoena to FU to
> determine the poster's ISP, and then a subpoena to
> the ISP to determine the identity of the poster.
>
> This is black letter Virginia law:
>
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+co
> d+8.01-407.1 (a codification of this case:
> http://pub.bna.com/eclr/40570.htm)

The problem is that he has no way to hire a lawyer, unless lawyers have suddenly decided to work without charge, and simply out of a sense of decency and fairness and a love for truth and justice. (I actually cracked myself up when I wrote that last part.)

The likelihood that there will be any recovery of the judgement that will be handed down is nil, as you cannot extract blood from a stone, nor money from someone who's broke, so no lawyer will agree to work on a contingency basis (40% of nothing is nothing).

Additionally, who's going to pay for all the expensive forensics necessary to prove it was a specific person, and not one of the other people in the house that defamed him?

Justice under the law is available to them that can afford it. The rest of us can eat a big steaming plate of shit.

Hey, anon-Chuck Hoffman,


A lawyer for this type of case would cost 5k tops; that is a mere pittance for me, dear sir.

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol at a judge issuing a subpoena to Cary for the
> above poster's IP address.

If P meets the stated requirements (1) and (2) for a defamation claim, under VA law it would *not* be difficult to obtain the necessary subpoenas, first of FU, then of the ISP.


> But let's just say that it happened(which it
> never would), what happens when said IP turns out
> to be a TOR exit node?

Then whoever posted it may escape liability.

However a different result if, as is VERY likely the case, the IP turns out not to be a TOR exit node.

What if alias is the culprit? IIRC, her and PAL were beefing back on 4Lulz. She's back now and Cary has repeatedly identified the IP address of troll posts attributed to her as TOR exit nodes.

Still think its impossible? You may be right...I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there.

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if alias is the culprit? IIRC, her and PAL
> were beefing back on 4Lulz. She's back now and
> Cary has repeatedly identified the IP address of
> troll posts attributed to her as TOR exit nodes.
>
> Still think its impossible? You may be right...I
> don't know. I'm just throwing it out there.


eesh = Alias

Broke Ass Chuck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lawyer for this type of case would cost 5k tops;
> that is a mere pittance for me, dear sir.

If this is true, and you have been defamed by someone on this board, by all means hire an attorney and bring an action against them.

Good luck in your pursuit of justice, and in collecting any judgement entered against that person.

Justice is for the Rich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Broke Ass Chuck Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A lawyer for this type of case would cost 5k
> tops;
> > that is a mere pittance for me, dear sir.
>
> If this is true, and you have been defamed by
> someone on this board, by all means hire an
> attorney and bring an action against them.
>
> Good luck in your pursuit of justice, and in
> collecting any judgement entered against that
> person.


A monetary judgement against eesh would be unrecoverable and based on Cary not even being served or found in contempt for-non appearance in the Monica Pignotti case, I find it dubious that he would be forced to divulge the IP's associated with said infractions.


Unless someone was murdered, kidnapped, or severely injured, I highly doubt they would make Cary give up anyone.

not worth it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A monetary judgement against eesh would be
> unrecoverable and based on Cary not even being
> served or found in contempt for-non appearance in
> the Monica Pignotti case, I find it dubious that
> he would be forced to divulge the IP's associated
> with said infractions.
>
> Unless someone was murdered, kidnapped, or
> severely injured, I highly doubt they would make
> Cary give up anyone.

The reason Cary was never served in Ronald Federici's lawsuit against him was that Federici was either unwilling or unable to pay for a process server to do so. I would imagine that obtaining Cary's current address would require less than half a day for a competent process server, with access to all sorts of lovely and expensive databases, to find.

If a lawsuit were entered against another poster, the lawyer would ask the court to issue a subpoena duces tecum compelling Cary to produce the IP address the poster used when he made the post, all other names attached to messages that came from that IP address, and all other IP addresses used by those names.

If Cary refused, he would be held in contempt of court. Alternatively, Cary could hire his own attorney, at his own cost, to fight the subpoena. However, I do not believe that Cary would spend one dime of his own money in such an enterprise and would gladly give up all the information I've described, especially since the law allows him to charge for his time in gathering it together (I imagine Cary's hourly rate for this sort of work is probably between $85 and $150 per hour.)

Following some computer forensics, the lawyer would then ask for another set of subpoenas against the various ISPs who owned those IP addresses, asking for the name and address of the person who used them at the time. The ISPs will also gladly give up the information, and charge for their time doing it.

Now armed with a name and address, the lawyer would ask for yet more subpoenas so that he could seize all the computers and Internet-capable devices at that address and submit them to forensic analysis to determine which computers and devices were used to commit the acts of defamation, as well as depose all people living at that address.

Does this sound like it would take a while? It would. Does this sound like it would be very, very expensive? It would be. Everybody's got their fucking hand out in this game.

Also note that the process I just described is only a portion of the discovery process, we haven't even gotten to the trial part, yet.

I think the $5K number lowballs by at least a factor of 2 and probably more like a factor of 10 how expensive this would truly be.

Finally, I do believe a judgment against eesh would be unenforceable, because notwithstanding his impressive collection of firearms, he doesn't have enough assets to seize to make the whole thing worthwhile.

First AND last name would need to be used for a case haha!

Justice is for the Rich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem is that he has no way to hire a lawyer

Google "World Bank Daddy" (in quotes).

Click on second result.

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First AND last name would need to be used for a
> case haha!

When it came down to the actual trial, yes. That's why your lawyer would have to jump through all the procedural hoops I described above, because you have to sue a specific person.

The initial filing, though, could be against an anonymous person. It'd probably be listed as UNKNOWN PERSON, A/K/A "EESH", for example, on the initial filing, then amended once the legal name of the person was known after all the discovery I outlined above.

Been watching law and order, Chuck?

Signatures are for fags

not worth it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A monetary judgement against eesh would be
> unrecoverable

Eh, a monetary judgment is not necessarily the endgame.

There would be a lower burden of proof to obtain the subpoenas than there would be to survive a motion to dismiss, or to win the case outright.

Value of public document stating the identity of the defaming poster if said poster is eesh: Priceless.

No I mean first and last name of the accused. It just says Patrick. There's a Patrick on Spongebob. I guess he can sue too? ;)

Harry Tuttle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been watching law and order?

Nope. Been doing a little light reading, instead.

Law and Order went downhill after Jerry Orbach left the show, anyway.

Also not only does the first and last name thing prevent anything, the accused would need to show proof of how this very post ruined. His life, caused job loss, money loss or prevented him from getting a job. Something tells me he does all of that on his own very well.

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also not only does the first and last name thing
> prevent anything, the accused would need to show
> proof of how this very post ruined. His life,
> caused job loss, money loss or prevented him from
> getting a job. Something tells me he does all of
> that on his own very well.


Nope, he wouldn't have to prove any such things.

That's the beauty of defamation per se.

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No I mean first and last name of the accused. It
> just says Patrick. There's a Patrick on Spongebob.
> I guess he can sue too? ;)

eesh used the full name here: http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/
907427/907816.html#msg-907816

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No I mean first and last name of the accused. It
> just says Patrick. There's a Patrick on Spongebob.
> I guess he can sue too? ;)

eesh used the full name here: http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/907427/907816.html#msg-907816

Lol


http://patlarrieu.blogspot.com/?m=1

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No I mean first and last name of the accused. It
> just says Patrick. There's a Patrick on Spongebob.
> I guess he can sue too? ;)

Defamation is committed against a specific person.

The mistake was in using both a phone number and a first name. One could argue that this is sufficient to identify a specific person, rather than all people with that first name. One line of questioning the attorney might pursue in the deposition would go something like this:

Q: Why did you say that the plaintiff was a child molester?
A: I never said he was.
Q: You wrote in your message that <insert name here> was a child molester.
A: So? Lots of people have that name.
Q: Do lots of people have the phone number (703) xxx-xxxx?
A: I don't know.
Q: And yet you put the phone number (703) xxx-xxxx in the same message with the name <insert name here> didn't you?
A: I guess so.
Q: So you didn't mean anyone with the name, <insert name here>, did you? You meant the person with the name <insert name here> who had the phone number (703) xxx-xxxx, right?
A: I have to go pee.

Lawyers are very good at asking questions like this, and they will do it for hours upon hours.

Oh, and he would be the plaintiff. YOU would be the defendant, you anonymous little defamer, you!

http://www.christopherallenwerner.blogspot.com

I guess the real fact of the matter is that none of this is going anywhere but here haha! Have fun with your prettend court I guess.

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess the real fact of the matter is that none
> of this is going anywhere but here haha! Have fun
> with your prettend court I guess.
Attachments:

Hey, good one. But the real reason it won't go anywhere is because those claims. Are indeed true.



/thread

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey, good one. But the real reason it won't go
> anywhere is because those claims. Are indeed
> true.
>
>
>
> /thread


Bullshit...the only thing true is the DWI.


Now, eesh being gay because he was molested is debatable and open for discussion.

Damn eesh, if you hadn't changed your number (after all this alias-lizzy-fuckhoffman drama) I would have called you as I was returning from my mom's on the Southside in Chesterfield last night. We could have drooled over my Accuracy International in. 338 Lapua magnum as I let you fondle her action while we had drinks and jerked off to the sexy slaying capabilities of her "reach out and touch a motherfucker" barrel of badass.

itchy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Damn eesh, if you hadn't changed your number
> (after all this alias-lizzy-fuckhoffman drama) I
> would have called you as I was returning from my
> mom's on the Southside in Chesterfield last night.
> We could have drooled over my Accuracy
> International in. 338 Lapua magnum as I let you
> fondle her action while we had drinks and jerked
> off to the sexy slaying capabilities of her "reach
> out and touch a motherfucker" barrel of badass.


The number is not disconnected or changed.

I don't know what you're even talking about but so you did get a DWI? Wow. You're a real winner, guy! Too bad you didn't kill yourself! But I was talking about the reason why you were fired as a T.A, if that isn't the reason, then why were you really fired?

MADA is lizzie

WOW! REALLY?! You didn't know?! ALL. THIS. TIME?! Hahahahah...holy shit! You aren't as smart as you thought. Dumbass! WOOOOOOOW!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2012 04:11PM by MADA.

I really didn't know

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know what you're even talking about but so
> you did get a DWI? Wow. You're a real winner, guy!
> Too bad you didn't kill yourself! But I was
> talking about the reason why you were fired as a
> T.A, if that isn't the reason, then why were you
> really fired?


I wasn't fired. I resigned because of the DWI situation.

I c now Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MADA is lizzie


..and eesh.

Wow. I don't see how you couldn't know. It's not like I was trying to hide the fact. I thought it was painfully obvious like always. Hahaha...that's funny.

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow. I don't see how you couldn't know. It's not
> like I was trying to hide the fact. I thought it
> was painfully obvious like always. Hahaha...that's
> funny.
Attachments:

Neat! It's almost about THAT time so I must be going for now! ;)

MADA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neat! It's almost about THAT time so I must be
> going for now! ;)


Have fun, poo thrower!

I c now Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MADA is lizzie


It took you nearly a month to figure that out. Good job! I think you should make a thread on this so everyone else can know too!

Oh wait, everyone else already knew before you! Well I guess you can still make the thread and let everyone know that I am also lizzie! ;)

1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I c now Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MADA is lizzie
>
>
> It took you nearly a month to figure that out.
> Good job! I think you should make a thread on this
> so everyone else can know too!
>
> Oh wait, everyone else already knew before you!
> Well I guess you can still make the thread and let
> everyone know that I am also lizzie! ;)


...and Alias, etc.

Me 2!

2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Me 2!


We know.

Me 3?

@ Patrick,

Again, it's a matter of crossing hurdles (1) and (2).

(1) I googled the phone number, per the challenge in the 04:36AM post.

I was easily able to connect it with your name.

Since you are "reasonably identifiable" from the comment (that's the legal standard; no requirement to have used your full name), hurdle (1) is crossed.

(2) If you were not fired for the reason stated in the 04:36AM post, then you overcome hurdle (2), and have a colorable "defamation per se" claim (because the post falsely accuses you of an act of moral turpitude).

This tort is recognized in Virginia, and does not require you to prove that you were damaged or injured by the defamatory remark (in most defamation cases, by contrast, you must prove such damage or injury in order to prevail).

An attorney will not take this case on a contingency basis, but even if you can only afford to get through the discovery stage (i.e., having the court issue subpoenas), that alone may be worth the price of admission.

Also, if you can establish you have a colorable claim, the court may allow you to subpoena the identity of any posts which might help you to establish the identity of the 04:36AM poster (in the event that poster posted via a tor exit node, for example). For example, posters who have posted information about your father, your father's home address, his job, etc.


bullshiter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now, eesh being gay because he was molested is
> debatable and open for discussion.

As an aside, the above remark is not even arguably defamatory because the "eesh" handle is not reasonably identifiable with a real-life person.

No harm, no foul, as Chick Hearn used to say.

Moifor!

Me 5, 6 and 7 also. Alias is 8 and 9.

@ Patrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 703-***-**** Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Google it for proof...
>
>
> Okay, if (1) that's P's phone number, and (2) he
> was not fired for the stated reason, P has a
> straightforward "defamation per se" claim against
> whoever posted that comment.
>
> Assuming (1) and (2), there is definitely enough
> to get a judge to issue a subpoena to FU to
> determine the poster's ISP, and then a subpoena to
> the ISP to determine the identity of the poster.
>
> This is black letter Virginia law:
>
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+co
> d+8.01-407.1 (a codification of this case:
> http://pub.bna.com/eclr/40570.htm)

He couldn't do that without opening himself up to similar action. He's posted many blatant lies and passed them off as fact.

This case would end up in the hands of a mediator, at best.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Patrick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 703-***-**** Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Google it for proof...
> >
> >
> > Okay, if (1) that's P's phone number, and (2)
> he
> > was not fired for the stated reason, P has a
> > straightforward "defamation per se" claim
> against
> > whoever posted that comment.
> >
> > Assuming (1) and (2), there is definitely
> enough
> > to get a judge to issue a subpoena to FU to
> > determine the poster's ISP, and then a subpoena
> to
> > the ISP to determine the identity of the
> poster.
> >
> > This is black letter Virginia law:
> >
> >
> http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+co
>
> > d+8.01-407.1 (a codification of this case:
> > http://pub.bna.com/eclr/40570.htm)
>
> He couldn't do that without opening himself up to
> similar action. He's posted many blatant lies and
> passed them off as fact.
>
>

As have you.

Eesh and mrmephisto are the child molesters.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He couldn't do that without opening himself up to
> similar action.


Unlikely.

Wrt eesh, this would only be the case if the person behind the eesh handle is in fact Christopher Werner, or William Z. Otherwise, no remarks directed at eesh could be considered defamatory since the handle "eesh" is not reasonably identifiable with a real-life person.

Also, as a general matter, suing for defamation doesn't "open you up" to being sued yourself, beyond the extent to which you may already be liable. IOW, Pat's potential liability on the defamation front is not changed by whether or not he chooses to file suit. If, for instance - hypothetically speaking - you had a defamation claim against Pat, his filing suit might *motivate* you to proceed with that claim, but it would have no effect one way or the other on the viability of your claim as such.

As for ending up with a mediator, again, the endgame may not be getting to court and winning a judgment; it may be simply getting to the stage where a court issues subpoenas.

@ Mephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > He couldn't do that without opening himself up
> to
> > similar action.
>
>
> Unlikely.
>
> Wrt eesh, this would only be the case if the
> person behind the eesh handle is in fact
> Christopher Werner, or William Z. Otherwise, no
> remarks directed at eesh could be considered
> defamatory since the handle "eesh" is not
> reasonably identifiable with a real-life person.
>
> Also, as a general matter, suing for defamation
> doesn't "open you up" to being sued yourself,
> beyond the extent to which you may already be
> liable. IOW, Pat's potential liability on the
> defamation front is not changed by whether or not
> he chooses to file suit. If, for instance -
> hypothetically speaking - you had a defamation
> claim against Pat, his filing suit might
> *motivate* you to proceed with that claim, but it
> would have no effect one way or the other on the
> viability of your claim as such.
>
> As for ending up with a mediator, again, the
> endgame may not be getting to court and winning a
> judgment; it may be simply getting to the stage
> where a court issues subpoenas.


What happens if someone writes MrMephisto is Jared Miller and it's true...can I be sued?

pot vs kettle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As have you.

Nnnnnnnope. Lies I've told about myself don't count. I haven't posted phone numbers or slanderous statements and passed them off as fact. I haven't spoken with authority about anyone's sexual proclivities. Calling someone an asshole for acting like an asshole isn't defamation.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

so scared Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Mephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MrMephisto Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > He couldn't do that without opening himself
> up
> > to
> > > similar action.
> >
> >
> > Unlikely.
> >
> > Wrt eesh, this would only be the case if the
> > person behind the eesh handle is in fact
> > Christopher Werner, or William Z. Otherwise,
> no
> > remarks directed at eesh could be considered
> > defamatory since the handle "eesh" is not
> > reasonably identifiable with a real-life
> person.
> >
> > Also, as a general matter, suing for defamation
> > doesn't "open you up" to being sued yourself,
> > beyond the extent to which you may already be
> > liable. IOW, Pat's potential liability on the
> > defamation front is not changed by whether or
> not
> > he chooses to file suit. If, for instance -
> > hypothetically speaking - you had a defamation
> > claim against Pat, his filing suit might
> > *motivate* you to proceed with that claim, but
> it
> > would have no effect one way or the other on
> the
> > viability of your claim as such.
> >
> > As for ending up with a mediator, again, the
> > endgame may not be getting to court and winning
> a
> > judgment; it may be simply getting to the stage
> > where a court issues subpoenas.
>
>
> What happens if someone writes MrMephisto is Jared
> Miller and it's true...can I be sued?


What if someone posts a picture saying it's MrMephisto and it's true...can I be sued?

edit by Cary: Banned user 'inkahootz' trolling. Personal imagery removed. Personal attacks prohibited.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 12:48PM by Cary.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pot vs kettle Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As have you.
>
> Nnnnnnnope. Lies I've told about myself don't
> count. I haven't posted phone numbers or
> slanderous statements and passed them off as fact.
> I haven't spoken with authority about anyone's
> sexual proclivities. Calling someone an asshole
> for acting like an asshole isn't defamation.



You lied about other people.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pot vs kettle Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As have you.
>
> Nnnnnnnope. Lies I've told about myself don't
> count. I haven't posted phone numbers or
> slanderous statements and passed them off as fact.
> I haven't spoken with authority about anyone's
> sexual proclivities. Calling someone an asshole
> for acting like an asshole isn't defamation.


The only thing you didn't do on that list was post phone numbers.

so scared Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What happens if someone writes MrMephisto is Jared
> Miller and it's true...can I be sued?

Nope. But if this Jared Miller has job problems because someone googled him and found a blog saying he's a gay unemployed homeless person, then yes. He could hit the culprit for lost wages. Lawyers won't work for free, but some lawyers will work for a cut of the damages. That would be a pretty easy case even without getting posting logs from Cary.

liar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You lied about other people.

Like who? And don't pull out that weak "Paper Moon" bullshit.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

liar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Nnnnnnnope. Lies I've told about myself don't
> > count. I haven't posted phone numbers or
> > slanderous statements and passed them off as fact.
> > I haven't spoken with authority about anyone's
> > sexual proclivities. Calling someone an asshole
> > for acting like an asshole isn't defamation.
>
>
>
> You lied about other people.

Most lies don't rise to the level of defamation.

Calling someone an asshole, or a piece of shit, or most other insults is not defamatory.

Accusing someone of being a child molestor IS defamatory, and moreover, constitutes defamation per se (a special category of defamation that is MUCH easier to prove than a straight defamation claim).

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so scared Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What happens if someone writes MrMephisto is
> Jared
> > Miller and it's true...can I be sued?
>
> Nope. But if this Jared Miller has job problems
> because someone googled him and found a blog
> saying he's a gay unemployed homeless person, then
> yes. He could hit the culprit for lost wages.
> Lawyers won't work for free, but some lawyers will
> work for a cut of the damages. That would be a
> pretty easy case even without getting posting logs
> from Cary.
>
> liar Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You lied about other people.
>
> Like who? And don't pull out that weak "Paper
> Moon" bullshit.


What if someone else posts a different picture saying it's MrMephisto and it's true...can I be sued?

edit by Cary: Banned user 'inkahootz' trolling. Personal imagery removed. Personal attacks prohibited.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 12:48PM by Cary.

That's what I thought.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's what I thought.


What if someone says MrMephisto threatened his pet rat, Mr.Cobblesworth with a gun and they post photographic proof?


Can they be sued?

edit by Cary: Banned user 'inkahootz' trolling. Personal imagery removed. Personal attacks prohibited.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 12:49PM by Cary.

You need to realize you have a golden opportunity here, and act accordingly.

I don't think I've ever seen a remark on FU before that so clearly rises to the level of defamation. (Usually because the most scandalous remarks are directed at anonymous handles, that can't be "reasonably identified" with a real-life person. For example, nothing anyone says about WTL could be considered defamatory because no one knows who he is in real life.)

The 04:36AM post potentially gives you a LOT of legal leverage.

You have been a punching bag on FU for a long time; that one post could change that. It could "level the playing field."

But you have to MOVE. It's an open question how long ISPs store information (as discussed here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/241591/faq_will_your_isp_protect_your_privacy.html), but it's likely no longer than 180 days, and it may be considerably less.

Bottom line: You snooze, you lose.

worried about mephisto's pet rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's what I thought.
>
>
> What if someone says MrMephisto threatened his pet
> rat, Mr.Cobblesworth with a gun and they post
> photographic proof?
>
>
> Can they be sued?

Nope. The only thing I'm guilty of is being awesome.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

He isn't going to do anything.

What if someone said MrMephisto stuck his rat in a can for his own enjoyment at the expense of his own pet's safety and well being ( what if Mr.Cobblesworth was allergic to cashews)?


Can they be sued?

edit by Cary: Banned user 'inkahootz' trolling. Personal imagery removed. Personal attacks prohibited.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2012 12:49PM by Cary.

worried about mephisto's pet rat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if someone says MrMephisto threatened his pet
> rat, Mr.Cobblesworth with a gun and they post
> photographic proof?
>
>
> Can they be sued?


Even worse, when Mr. C threatened to report Mephisto to the ASPCA for animal cruelty, Mephisto locked him in his cage and refused to feed him until Cobblesworth withdrew his threat.

And he put a tiny little gag in Mr. C's mouth whenever someone came by the apartment, so Cobblesworth couldn't say anything!

Discusting!

Now he's got Cobblesworth running a miniature meth lab... but is Mephisto willing to split the proceeds with him? Hell no! He just gives him a few extra pellets every week.

give it up chuck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He isn't going to do anything.
Attachments:

There was a thread here that said you molest your daughter chuck why didn't you do anything?

concerned for the well being of his pet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if someone said MrMephisto stuck his rat in a
> can for his own enjoyment at the expense of his
> own pet's safety and well being ( what if
> Mr.Cobblesworth was allergic to cashews)?
>
>
> Can they be sued?

Guilty of being adorable.

You're running out of pictures, buddy.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

NO you won't.

Re: Cobblesworth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> worried about mephisto's pet rat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What if someone says MrMephisto threatened his
> pet
> > rat, Mr.Cobblesworth with a gun and they post
> > photographic proof?
> >
> >
> > Can they be sued?
>
>
> Even worse, when Mr. C threatened to report
> Mephisto to the ASPCA for animal cruelty, Mephisto
> locked him in his cage and refused to feed him
> until Cobblesworth withdrew his threat.
>
> And he put a tiny little gag in Mr. C's mouth
> whenever someone came by the apartment, so
> Cobblesworth couldn't say anything!
>
> Discusting!
>
> Now he's got Cobblesworth running a miniature meth
> lab... but is Mephisto willing to split the
> proceeds with him? Hell no! He just gives him a
> few extra pellets every week.




I heard MrMephisto's fat, lazy ass is making his rat sing and play guitar for money on the sidewalks outside bars in Arlington!

Unbelievable!
Attachments:

I heard MrMephisto is making his rat work doing singing telegrams, while he sits on his fat ass listening to Meade Skelton records; this way he can steal his songs and put it in his act, since his material is worse than Meade's.
Attachments:

there has been that level of defaming Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a thread here that said you molest your
> daughter chuck why didn't you do anything?


Because Chuck is broke as fuck!

@ Patrick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> The 04:36AM post potentially gives you a LOT of
> legal leverage.
>
>

What about this one? http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/907427/907816.html#msg-907816

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if alias is the culprit? IIRC, her and PAL
> were beefing back on 4Lulz. She's back now and
> Cary has repeatedly identified the IP address of
> troll posts attributed to her as TOR exit nodes.
>
> Still think its impossible? You may be right...I
> don't know. I'm just throwing it out there.

I'm such a bad, bad girl. You wouldn't believe the stuff I've.... well, I don't even wanna go into it... too painful.

Being that eesh, mephisto, and chucky are impecunious fellows, I highly doubt they would be able to afford the 5 to 10 grand the discovery process and litigation would cost.

$13.7 Million Awarded in Defamation Suit Against "Anonymous" Posterssize>


April 2012. Plaintiffs were called molesters, murderers, sexual deviants and drug dealers, and were accused of encouraging pedophilia. Subpoenas of IP addresses led plaintiffs to the owners and employees of a salvage yard. In April, the plaintiffs won a $13.8 million judgment from a jury.

There is a common misconception that "free speech" includes the right to post defamatory material on the Internet anonymously.

This case should serve as a wake-up call to those who would attack others online.

The Virginia Defamation Law Blog is brought to you by Berik Law -- We are defamation law specialists who focus on getting results for our clients as quickly and cost-effectively as possible.

Offices in:
Reston | Tysons Corner | Alexandria | Leesburg

You can run but you cannot hide.

@ pat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $13.7 Million Awarded in Defamation Suit Against
> "Anonymous" Posters
>
>
> April 2012. Plaintiffs were called molesters,
> murderers, sexual deviants and drug dealers, and
> were accused of encouraging pedophilia. Subpoenas
> of IP addresses led plaintiffs to the owners and
> employees of a salvage yard. In April, the
> plaintiffs won a $13.8 million judgment from a
> jury.
>
> There is a common misconception that "free speech"
> includes the right to post defamatory material on
> the Internet anonymously.
>
> This case should serve as a wake-up call to those
> who would attack others online.
>
> The Virginia Defamation Law Blog is brought to you
> by Berik Law -- We are defamation law specialists
> who focus on getting results for our clients as
> quickly and cost-effectively as possible.
>
> Offices in:
> Reston | Tysons Corner | Alexandria | Leesburg
>
> You can run but you cannot hide.

LOL, Im sure their offices in Reston, Tysons and Alexandria keep their overhead REALLY low. Im sure they do specialize in working as 'cost-effectively as possible'

That ststement made me lawlz!

Although, eesh initiated and carried on with his attacks for years, a libel claim would probably not be successful, since retaliatory attacks against eesh eventually took place.

This isn't a case where a sympathetic jury could look past the actions of a vengeful father (whose daughter was raped) who, in retribution, beat up his daughter's attacker and put him in the hospital.


Although, initially a victim of eesh, both now have bloody hands in the matter.


@ pat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> $13.7 Million Awarded in Defamation Suit Against
> "Anonymous" Posters
>
>
> April 2012. Plaintiffs were called molesters,
> murderers, sexual deviants and drug dealers, and
> were accused of encouraging pedophilia. Subpoenas
> of IP addresses led plaintiffs to the owners and
> employees of a salvage yard. In April, the
> plaintiffs won a $13.8 million judgment from a
> jury.
>
> There is a common misconception that "free speech"
> includes the right to post defamatory material on
> the Internet anonymously.
>
> This case should serve as a wake-up call to those
> who would attack others online.
>
> The Virginia Defamation Law Blog is brought to you
> by Berik Law -- We are defamation law specialists
> who focus on getting results for our clients as
> quickly and cost-effectively as possible.
>
> Offices in:
> Reston | Tysons Corner | Alexandria | Leesburg
>
> You can run but you cannot hide.

I am a lawyer licensced to practice in Virginia, know all about defamation, etc.

I guarantee that "Patrick" would lose based on his having "unclean hands" (or "bloody hands").

He should not even think about talking to a lawyer about this matter.

Any registered lawyer will just laugh at him.

No sympathy from judge. No sympathy from jury.

It will be very embarassing for this "Patrick"

Note: This is not an official legal opinion, just my personal opinion.

He might be able to get a court order to get the blog taken down and have any libelous posts deleted, but he would not win a civil judgement based on his reciprocation against eesh.




pat loses vs. eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a lawyer licensced to practice in Virginia,
> know all about defamation, etc.
>
> I guarantee that "Patrick" would lose based on his
> having "unclean hands" (or "bloody hands").
>
> He should not even think about talking to a lawyer
> about this matter.
>
> Any registered lawyer will just laugh at him.
>
> No sympathy from judge. No sympathy from jury.
>
> It will be very embarassing for this "Patrick"
>
> Note: This is not an official legal opinion, just
> my personal opinion.

no one would win Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He might be able to get a court order to get the
> blog taken down and have any libelous posts
> deleted, but he would not win a civil judgement
> based on his reciprocation against eesh.

Nothing in the Patrick Larrieu blog comes even close to being libel. It simply documents his criminal record (fact), his predilection for stalking other users around IRL (fact), and has pictures of him so other people know who to look out for. It contains most of the same information an employer would find during a background check.

Compare that to Patrick's blogs, which are full of speculative and unsubstantiated statements about both parties and are being presented as fact. Patrick states, as fact, that Miller and Werner are in a homosexual relationship and that Miller is "becoming violent in their relationship." He also makes some serious accusations about the circumstances surrounding Miller's discharge from the military. If these statements are false and result in negative repercussions for Miller, that easily puts them in the "libel" category.

The werner blog is even worse. Patrick accuses Werner of death threats, drug use, violence, stalking, cyberstalking, extortion, intimidation, harassment... everything short of blaming Werner for the Holocaust and terrorism. Again, if these statements are false and result in negative repercussions for Werner, they're libelous statements.

This is, of course, assuming that Patrick is correct about the identities of MrMephisto and eesh. Patrick has repeatedly confirmed his identity, but if he's wrong about who MrMephisto and eesh are IRL, then he's doubly screwed. The real Jared and Chris would take him for everything he has.

There is a huge difference between "outing" someone and "publicly slandering" someone. Patrick's going to find that out the hard way if either Miller or Werner get denied so much as a job at Burger King because of his immature internet shenanigans.

Patrick, if you're reading this, I'll save you the trouble: This is an anonymous Harry Tuttle/eesh/Alias/MrMephisto/Mr. Misery/chuckhoffmann post.

Captain Courtroom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing in the [PL] blog comes even
> close to being libel.

Agree.


> Compare that to Patrick's blogs, which are full of
> speculative and unsubstantiated statements about
> both parties and are being presented as fact.
...
> Again, if these
> statements are false and result in negative
> repercussions for Werner, they're libelous
> statements.

Without revisiting those blogs, or remarks made on FU, Pat needs to realize that remarks directed at third parties (such as CAW) could put him (Pat) in legal peril -- whether or not the person is eesh.

(i) If the person is *not* eesh, the remarks are clearly false, and may be defamatory (for example, any accusation related to pedophilia, unless you can prove it's true). It might be noted that falsely accusing someone of homosexuality may be defamatory (this is a grey area in the law; I don't know where VA courts sit on the matter).

(ii) Even in the unlikely event that the person *is* eesh, some of the remarks directed at him may well be defamatory, eg, an accusation of pedophilia.

Either way, if CAW is a real person rather than some sort of made-up character, then Pat is playing a dangerous game (if Pat is in fact the one posting the info and is the creator of the blogs, as I assume to be the case).


> There is a huge difference between "outing"
> someone and "publicly slandering" someone.

True. No legal peril for the former; considerable legal peril for the latter.


> Patrick's going to find that out the hard way if
> either Miller or Werner get denied so much as a
> job at Burger King because of his immature
> internet shenanigans.

Yes, this would be the most likely trigger, some sort of job issue.

Again, Pat is playing a dangerous game that could come back to bite him.

By contrast, nothing I've seen posted under the "eesh" handle crosses the legal peril line.

I do think the unregistered 04:36AM post is defamatory under stated conditions (1) and (2).

I could be wrong, but my understanding of the law is that "unclean hands" is not a defamation defense (eg, "I may have defamed him, but since he defamed ME, I should not be held liable for my defamatory remarks"). At best, if defamatory retaliatory remarks were directed at the defendant, then that would be the basis for the defendant bringing a counter-claim, or filing a separate suit.

Something else about Patrick's blogs, specifically the ones on Chuck Hoffmann and Chris Werner, is that they have phone numbers, mailing addresses, and attacks on other family members.

Patrick has yet to realize is that how the blog on him is lacking any details on how he is, by every definition, a deadbeat father that gives little to no support to his child.


I have stated this before, I am not Christopher Werner. Patrick came across this name because a curly, blonde haired guy on Facebook had that name, and he had the brilliant idea that it is me.

I think I'm going to write a certified letter, or introduce myself in person to this Chris Werner, so he knows that someone is spreading all this garbage about him on the internet.

"I think I'm going to write a certified letter, or introduce myself in person to this Chris Werner, so he knows that someone is spreading all this garbage about him on the internet."

You're good at this game, eesh.

Thread

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something else about Patrick's blogs, specifically
> the ones on Chuck Hoffmann and Chris Werner, is
> that they have phone numbers, mailing addresses,
> and attacks on other family members.
>


LULZ

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ Patrick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Assuming (1) and (2), there is definitely
> enough
> > to get a judge to issue a subpoena to FU to
> > determine the poster's ISP, and then a subpoena
> to
> > the ISP to determine the identity of the
> poster.
> >
>
> Lol at a judge issuing a subpoena to Cary for the
> above poster's IP address.
>
> But let's just say that it happened(which it
> never would), what happens when said IP turns out
> to be a TOR exit node?

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What if alias is the culprit? IIRC, her and PAL
> were beefing back on 4Lulz. She's back now and
> Cary has repeatedly identified the IP address of
> troll posts attributed to her as TOR exit nodes.
>
> Still think its impossible? You may be right...I
> don't know. I'm just throwing it out there.


Who are you?