This not only demonstrates the President's economic ignorance, it is an example of what most people don't understand about modern global economics. Don't think for a moment that "slave labor" is the reason China can outperform us in manufacturing. They are still for the large part a third world nation do to generations of building a workers paradise. The majority of their population are the poorest of poor by our standards (though not necessarily less educated) and they voluntarily stand in lines by the thousands just to build you a smart phone for $17.00 a day.

Trying to duplicate the logistics for comparable mass manufacturing in the US is most unlikely. All the union provisions, labor laws, regulations and human resource / education limitations have resulted in manufacturing flight from the mainland.

"When Barack Obama joined Silicon Valley’s top luminaries for dinner in California last February, each guest was asked to come with a question for the president.

But as Steven P. Jobs of Apple spoke, President Obama interrupted with an inquiry of his own: what would it take to make iPhones in the United States?"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

hahahahah I love how you call it "manufacturing FLIGHT" like the Companies had NO CHOICE but to FLEE! Oh NOEZ! here come the UNIONS! LMAO!


Yes all that good good slave labor in China making well below minimum wage and being used up as quickly as a cell phone battery and just as quickly replaced does WONDERS for labor movement.


"Manufacturing flight......" BWHAHAHAHAHAHA

You gotta love the NY Times.

The article doesn't mention one of the biggest problems with US manufacturing = Labor Unions.

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Don't think for a moment that "slave
> labor" is the reason China can outperform us in
> manufacturing.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

“The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”


how do you say LOL in Mandaran?

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The majority of their population
> are the poorest of poor by our standards (though
> not necessarily less educated) and they
> voluntarily stand in lines by the thousands just
> to build you a smart phone for $17.00 a day.

What American, union or not, is going to work for $17.00/day?

PS - What does this have to do w/Liberalism?

Buh bye Obama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mcsmack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The majority of their population
> > are the poorest of poor by our standards
> (though
> > not necessarily less educated) and they
> > voluntarily stand in lines by the thousands
> just
> > to build you a smart phone for $17.00 a day.
>
> What American, union or not, is going to work for
> $17.00/day?
>
> PS - What does this have to do w/Liberalism?

Apples and Oranges.

Their cost of living is much much lower than it is here.

The NYT certainly isn't making the case for Apple manufacturing products here in the US. They think they are but their not.

All I'm saying is there is nowhere that I no of which can change one component on an assembly line, in this case Steve Jobs wanting scratch proof glass on the iPhone, and within 3 months crank out over 200 million phones by hand assembly.

If it wasn't for the Chinese being able to do this I would venture to guess you would have paid double the price for your stupid iPhone because of demand / supply ratios itself. And you would have waited a lot longer to get one.

The fact is we can't do it. We don't have the people or the logistics.

There is a story out in the last 24 hrs where Boeing will begin pressuring and helping some of their critical suppliers move closer to assembly in the Seattle area. Assembly logistics is the reason. If parts can be designed, changed, manufactured and delivered in hours instead of days or weeks mass production is much more likely increasing supply. Boeing is finding this out after having components built all over the world causing several critical component and design delays in some of their programs effecting final assembly.

200 million phones in a few months. I don't know of anyone wanting to live in a factory dorm do you?

And all I'm saying is if you don't like it, throw your damn phone away or shut the fuck up and be the hypocrite you are!

mcsmack cant be serious, his delusional drivel leaves me jaw dropped a speechless. How someone could actually come up with this stuff is beyond me.

mcsmack is no better than Vince. The rants of a nut.

If you were saying this stuff on a street corner, people would literally avoid eye contact and scurry away; later laughing at you over lunch.

mcsmack is really reaching for material these days to prove democrats are a problem.

Reaching Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mcsmack is really reaching for material these days
> to prove democrats are a problem.

Not just a problem. Democrats are THE problem.

Chinese workers make about $2-an-hour. The only way to compete with that is to pay Americans $2-an-hour. Are you saying that's what you are for? A race to the bottom?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If it wasn't for the Chinese being able to do this
> I would venture to guess you would have paid
> double the price for your stupid iPhone because of
> demand / supply ratios itself. And you would have
> waited a lot longer to get one.





No, it would just cut into their massive profits.

Blessed are the murderous.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chinese workers make about $2-an-hour. The only
> way to compete with that is to pay Americans
> $2-an-hour. Are you saying that's what you are
> for? A race to the bottom?

This is what the forces of corporatization, industrialization and globalization of trade have created: a race to the bottom in the quest to cut costs and increase profits.

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> how do you say LOL in Mandaran?


You pronounce it "Sonic"

The truth is that no matter how detestable you might find conditions and hiring practices in China and elsewhere, without those jobs those people would be far worse off.

A complete 180 degrees out from this country where highly paid union workers that have better benefits than a government worker can build and ship a car without brake pads on it.

I'm pretty sure an iPad ever ran over anyone.

I'm also positive our government never bailed out Apple or down played any mistakes they made either.

I dont know about cell phones but I can tell you Chinese construction tools and material are absolute crap. The tools do not stand up to any kind of stress. The building materials are shoddy and defective i.e. drywall.

I have made in USA Craftsman tools that have to be forty years old given to me by my dad, no signs of wear and work as good as new. I have had some extra tools I keep around that are maybe three years old and were made in China. Total junk and the steel is more like tin. Total crap. Sure you can get a refund if you are lucky but when you need the tools and they break they cost you time and money.
I look for American materials and tools but often all you can find are Chinese.

I dont have an answer but I do know Americans can run rings around the Chinese in quality.

old and getting older Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont know about cell phones but I can tell you
> Chinese construction tools and material are
> absolute crap. The tools do not stand up to any
> kind of stress. The building materials are shoddy
> and defective i.e. drywall.
>
> I have made in USA Craftsman tools that have to be
> forty years old given to me by my dad, no signs of
> wear and work as good as new. I have had some
> extra tools I keep around that are maybe three
> years old and were made in China. Total junk and
> the steel is more like tin. Total crap. Sure you
> can get a refund if you are lucky but when you
> need the tools and they break they cost you time
> and money.
> I look for American materials and tools but often
> all you can find are Chinese.
>
> I dont have an answer but I do know Americans can
> run rings around the Chinese in quality.





How long until this building falls apart? Chinese construction firm built thirty story building in 15 days.....yikes.





Blessed are the murderous.

The reason it cost so much to manufacture in this country is all the extra costs. At every corner you have the EPA with another regulation or OSHA with even more regulation. If a worker gets injured on the job there will be a regulation to prevent that from happening again. I not saying that having a safe work place isn't important. OSHA and the EPA try to regulate stupidity.

Yeah, the $2/hr vs $20/hr thing has almost nothing to do with it. So there's that. Its OSHA. Those bastards.

______________________________________________
I have had to change the addresses to my retaliatory blogs over half a dozen times.

oh and by the way, the great CHINESE manufacturing force that has fucking LEAD in EVERYTHING. Including TOYS. Yeah great and then we call them on it and its "HOW DARE YOU AMERICANS WANT SAFE PRODUCTS FOR YOUR CHILDREN!" so they can SAVE FACE. FUCK THAT! Chinese are EXPLOITING thier people the way Apple is exploiting the chinese People. Its unconscienable to WORK SOMEONE FOR 12 hours straight feeding them ONE CUP OF TEA and BUISCIT! Fucking no thanks!

The Chinese have an advantage because their government subsidizes buisness (in the extreme.)

That's why solyndra failed. The Chinese government Pumped a ton of resources into an identical Product and cut the Bottumn out of the market.

So mcsmack's gay (because most republicans are gay) rhetoric makes us less competitive. He can't have mad cash so he's just another fluffer for the wealthy.

How does the right justify the "job creators" earning as much as they can, but workers shouldn't want as much money as they can get,,,

Heres a bisquit and a cup of tea, now get off my yacht, peasant.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chinese workers make about $2-an-hour. The only
> way to compete with that is to pay Americans
> $2-an-hour. Are you saying that's what you are
> for? A race to the bottom?


The New York Times author cited a source that determined actual increase labor costs if manufactured in the USA would only add on about $65.00 per copy.

"In part, Asia was attractive because the semiskilled workers there were cheaper. But that wasn’t driving Apple. For technology companies, the cost of labor is minimal compared with the expense of buying parts and managing supply chains that bring together components and services from hundreds of companies."

"Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States.

In China, it took 15 days."


"It is hard to estimate how much more it would cost to build iPhones in the United States. However, various academics and manufacturing analysts estimate that because labor is such a small part of technology manufacturing, paying American wages would add up to $65 to each iPhone’s expense. Since Apple’s profits are often hundreds of dollars per phone, building domestically, in theory, would still give the company a healthy reward."

After trillions of dollars spent on public education, retraining programs, career counseling for our students we are woefully deficient in our technically trained and qualified labor pool and technological infrastructure to meet a company like Apple's manufacturing needs. Rebuilding or building it in the first place it may be next to impossible. maybe more resources could be directed towards this problem rather than electric cars and windmills.

I do find the conversation between Steve Jobs and Obama fascinating. Obama isn't stupid but it must have been quite the delicate conversation for Jobs to be teaching Obama about manufacturing logistics on such a large scale as Apple. I'm sure it never dawned on the president what the seemingly insurmountable obstacles were causing Apple to have to manufacture in China just as most people, I would say 90%+ of Americans, don't understand.

This is a hard pill to swallow but hardly the rantings of a crazy man. It is reality.

I like my smart phone and have no problem with how it is manufactured. It's the folks, whether Democrat or republican, that are ignorant to today's global manufacturing logistical realities that are the fools.

Lobbyist (I know some of the culprits) have structured our tax code to reward oveseas investments.

Maybe you shouldn't be able to write of capital expenses in someone else's Capitol.

Raise taxes on shipping jobs overseas. Come on Grover.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 06:06PM by Atom.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lobbyist (I know some of the culprits) have
> structured our tax code to reward oveseas
> investments.
>
> Maybe you shouldn't be able to write of capital
> expenses in someone else's Capitol.
>
> Raise taxes on shipping jobs overseas. Come on
> Grover.


TRUE TRUE TRUE

Quit blaming unions for taking chump change while the lobbyists line the pockets of corporate USA with BILLIONS OF DOLLARS,,,

At least money made by union workers stays in the USA,,,

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Chinese have an advantage because their
> government subsidizes buisness (in the extreme.)
>
> That's why solyndra failed. The Chinese
> government Pumped a ton of resources into an
> identical Product and cut the Bottumn out of the
> market.
>
> So mcsmack's gay (because most republicans are
> gay) rhetoric makes us less competitive. He can't
> have mad cash so he's just another fluffer for the
> wealthy.


See you are a perfect example of a sheep following the herd off a cliff.

Dare to use your brain. It is just a little bit harder than following along with conventional wisdom. Remember the world use to be flat.

Anyway genius here is a question.

I wager you have a smart phone or iPad in your possession.Right?

How many people do you know that have gone down to the solar panel store and bought a Chinese solar panel?

Didn't OBama promise all the negros a free cell phone with "working service" so they could stop walking around with disconnected phones faking that they are on a call. .

Here's the number of two local solar companies.

standard solar
(301) 944-1200

Clean currents
(301) 754-0430

Call em all, they use Chinese Panels.

Sometimes American innovation can trump a socialist competitor (iPad/iPhone.)

Sometimes it takes subsidies. Energy trumps iPads in importance (but not by much.) its your moronic parties line. It's just dumb. You have to break some eggs if you want to make an omlet and omlets are damned tasty.

Keep taking it up the ass from big buisness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 06:32PM by Atom.

Atom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the number of two local solar companies.
>
> standard solar
> (301) 944-1200
>
> Clean currents
> (301) 754-0430
>
> Call em all, they use Chinese Panels.
>
> Sometimes American innovation can trump a
> socialist competitor (iPad/iPhone.)
>
> Sometimes it takes subsidies. Energy trumps iPads
> in importance (but not by much.) its your moronic
> parties line. It's just dumb. You have to break
> some eggs if you want to make an omlet and omlets
> are damned tasty.
>
> Keep taking it up the ass from big buisness.


How many have you purchased?

I've worked with a couple of said companies when I was a marketing consultant.

I'd buy some panels if I lived out west and there was enough of a state or federal incentive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2012 07:52PM by Atom.

For the most part, the Chinese make crap. Walmart doesn't care, because you'll be back in six months to replace the same crap when it breaks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the most part, the Chinese make crap. Walmart
> doesn't care, because you'll be back in six months
> to replace the same crap when it breaks.

Your right for the most part. As the journalist points out Foxconn Technology is an assembly plant where they only put together parts shipped from all over the world but primarily Asia. The software is US as well as all R&D.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the most part, the Chinese make crap. Walmart
> doesn't care, because you'll be back in six months
> to replace the same crap when it breaks.


Chinese don't make crap, Chinese make cheap.
Most crap is cheap, therefore most crap is made in China.
However, there are also many quality products they produce cheaply.