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idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 07:39PM by WingNut.
Kofi Annan - Not the cleanest hands, but of the bunch he isn't all that bad
Past Presidents of:
Mexico - failed state due to drug cartels
Brazil - underage sex tourism
Colombia - Constant civil war and blow...lots and lots of blow...funding each side.
Yeah, we're gonna be really excited to listen to what these guys have to say about our drug policies.
Maybe they can sell some in their gift shop and raise a couple of bucks to pay us back the money we've wasted on them to date.
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2015 11:11PM by WingNut.
Folks always talk about government interference and self control. They never think about unintended consequences.
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"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"
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> It's your daughters 18th birthday....
>
> She wants to smoke crack cocaine, no wait shoot
> heroin. Don't tell us you've raised your daughter
> better than that, thats bullshit. She is of legal
> adult age and she wants to smoke crack and/or
> shoot heroin.
>
> What is a safe dose for her? You decide.. How much
> should she pay and what should the quantity limit
> be? She's "only going to do it once". She's had a
> lot of education about the dangers of drugs, she
> won't get hooked, will she?
>
> How do you handle the legalization of crack and
> dope (heroin)?
>
> We could sure go easier on weed, we already do.
> Please explain the logic of making
> coke/heroin/meth more widely available?
Weed is a Schedule 1 narcotic, according to the FDA, ranked higher than Cocaine, a Schedule 2
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> It's your daughters 18th birthday....
>
> She wants to smoke crack cocaine, no wait shoot
> heroin.
I am in favor of the legalization of all drugs and the treatment of any resulting problems as the social problems that they are, not criminal ones.
Prohibition, twice now, has been proven not to work.
The costs of prohibition, though we have no honest evaluation of them as far as I know, undoubtedly are huge relative to the costs of addressing the social problems that would be enhanced (not arise from - they're already here) by legalization.
I have a not-yet-adult daughter, too.
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> It's your daughters 18th birthday....
>
> She wants to smoke crack cocaine, no wait shoot
> heroin. Don't tell us you've raised your daughter
> better than that, thats bullshit. She is of legal
> adult age and she wants to smoke crack and/or
> shoot heroin.
>
> What is a safe dose for her? You decide.. How much
> should she pay and what should the quantity limit
> be? She's "only going to do it once". She's had a
> lot of education about the dangers of drugs, she
> won't get hooked, will she?
>
> How do you handle the legalization of crack and
> dope (heroin)?
>
> We could sure go easier on weed, we already do.
> Please explain the logic of making
> coke/heroin/meth more widely available?
Typical set up question. If legaized and controlled the strength and purity of the drug would be known. Her need for counseling would be known. Without legalization the chance for overdose and the need to hide this behavior has much more dangerous consequences.
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> Just wait until you get a new crop of heroin and
> crack babies. What a wonder that will do to our
> healthcare system.
>
> Folks always talk about government interference
> and self control. They never think about
> unintended consequences.
Youre just afraid these new crack babies will be white. The war on drugs has done nothing to control black crack babies.
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> Youre just afraid these new crack babies will be
> white. The war on drugs has done nothing to
> control black
true (now)
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2015 11:11PM by WingNut.
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> Weed is a Ched 1 because it was judged to have no
> medical usuage, which is debatable. Hallucinogens
> like LSD and PCP are also on Sched 1.
>
> I am not sure how coke is used medically, but I
> believe it is on schedule 2 with heroin and other
It is used for a pain killer in rhinoplasty. It is apparently very effective - in a clinical setting.
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"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 07:40PM by WingNut.
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> ...I look at it this way...
And I do not.
I think the actual costs of prohibition VASTLY outweigh the actual end-result costs of kicking prohibition permanently out the door.
Will there be social problems for such footwork?
Of COURSE!
But I sincerely believe the problems of prohibition are much much greater.
Too bad no one (AFAIK) has done an honest FULL evaluation of the costs of prohibition - the monetary costs, the social costs, the whole nine yards - I think it would floor a lot of people.
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2015 08:00PM by WingNut.
I actually do really think the the "costs" of prohibition are much greater than costs of legalization.
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2015 08:00PM by WingNut.
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> Would you still want to drug test pilots or train
> conductors?
Of course, I don't see the disconnect here.
> Would crack be safer or better for your body if it
> was legal?
Not at all - but that's a SOCIAL problem, not a criminal one, IMHO.
> Where would be a good place in the
> county to open an ABC Crack Store?
Anywhere there's an ABC store right now.
When I say "legalize all drugs" I really mean legalize all drugs. Get rid of ALL the prohibition crap that has NEVER worked and move a miniscule portion of the monetary costs of that prohibition over to the social side to treat the resulting increase in social problems.
But none of this says we sell crack next to bread to anyone anymore than we sell alcohol or cigarettes next to bread to anyone.
And certainly none of this says you make it legal to be drugged while driving (or, gack, while piloting!).
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 07:40PM by WingNut.
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> http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-f
> g-mexico-drug-policy-20110602,0,1200377.story
>
> The UN's Global Commission on Drug Policy calls
> the War on Drugs a costly failure and urges world
> governments to end the criminalization of drugs,
> particularly marijuana.
All the more reason to ignore the U.N. These guys are never on the right track.
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> But if it would be illegal to pilot a plane while
> high on crack, would it be OK if the pilot just
> had residual traces of crack in his system after a
> few days not smoking?
Whatever the guidance says, that's fine by me. Guidance would, of course, need to be expanded to cover what is now illegal but would then be legal.
> Would you trust the judgement of a pilot or a
> surgeon who is a "recreational" crack smoker?
As much as one who uses too much alcohol. I would bet either would be grounds for license loss at that future time just as excessive use of alcohol is now.
> Serious question- have you ever spent any serious
> time around hard drugs
Here's a video of an excellent musician who fell hard into heroin:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1979448559706741322#
Sad, ain't it?
But...you know...this is a perfect example of a social problem.
NOT a criminal one.
WingNut Wrote:
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> Devils advocate talking here-
>
> But if it would be illegal to pilot a plane while
> high on crack, would it be OK if the pilot just
> had residual traces of crack in his system after a
> few days not smoking?
>
> Would you trust the judgement of a pilot or a
> surgeon who is a "recreational" crack smoker?
>
>
> Serious question- have you ever spent any serious
> time around hard drugs and or the people who
> use/sell them, or are we comparing our little HS
> and college pot experiences and projecting them
> onto hard drugs?
Good point. There are some drugs that are sufficiently dangerous that they should not be legalized. I would put meth and acid on that list. There are some jobs that are so important that you should not be able to legally engage in them while under the influence of recreational or even prescription drugs. However INTELLIGENT drug reform legislations should be able to deal with these kinds of issues so that we don't end up treating some underage kid with a six pack or some twenty something with a nickle bag like we treat the guy on PCP.
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> ...There are some drugs that are sufficiently dangerous that
> they should not be legalized. I would put meth and acid on
> that list...
Prohibition does not work.
Legalize all, treat as the social problem they all are.
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You all should feel the
> rath of this country for a day to see why the
> world hates our simplistic approach to everything.
> Americans are simpletons.
If we Americans aren't the ones feeling any (w)rath (assuming you didn't mean the ham)......who is the simpleton?
Yeah...it sucks to be us. Save yourself and move elsewhere.
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>
> I am in favor of the legalization of all drugs and
> the treatment of any resulting problems as the
> social problems that they are, not criminal ones.
Oh sure...you're a criminal and since you can't make me a criminal, you want to just wave a magic wand and have us all be on the same playing field.
Social problem my ass. The problem is that your parents never said no to you.
Take that shit to them and see how it flys.
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 07:42PM by WingNut.
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 07:41PM by WingNut.
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> First of all I don't understand your multiple
> references to an 18 year old female wanting to use
> heroin for the first time. Second of all, I don't
> have the answers to your questions. Alcohol and
> tobacco combined, account for more deaths than ALL
> illegal drugs combined every year. Why are these
> substances legal and others not?
Have you ever heard of a casual heroin or crack user? The addictive nature of these items are such that the harm caused by them FAR outweigh any societal benefit. How about PCP? Meth? All socially responsible.
Just look at a meth head. They look like a truck hit them and then backed over them.
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"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2011 04:20PM by Pinhead the Cenobite.
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 07:41PM by WingNut.
I think for the most part, professionals who have shit to lose aren't going to say "Hey, cracks legal now, I'm gonna give it a try" The people who DO want to try it probably have other issues anyways, that will be exposed eventually. As for people who downright want to get high, they do it anways despite its legality.
Like I said, I don't have the answers to the "drug problem" but spending billions of dollars for preventative measures has not worked. Maybe we could spend half of that on rehabilitation and some sensible education on the effects on the individual and families.
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> [I'm not sure what]
Huh?
I don't do either drugs nor alcohol.
I do believe in their total legalization, however.
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> It's her business and no one elses, right?
No.
It is a social problem that should be handled via social means, not criminal means.
That's all - no more nor less.
If a fairly free minded country like the Netherlands maintains its illegality on cocaine, crack, heroin, etc., what makes anyone think that their legalization would be of any benefit in the United States (where the word moderation is unknown to most).
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"...your suffering will be legendary even in Hell!"
idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam
Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.
Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 07:40PM by WingNut.