* Ukraine succeeded. It was part of Russia and got russian assets (tax money) for years.

* No different from Chechyna, they split at the same time, and Russia already toppled that took it back.

* Russia is saying they don't like being stalled, yet they've opened themselves up for allot of stalling and talks.

* Russia might not take "no deals" for an answer. They will win concessions or they might topple Ukraine. Xiden Biden is only an agitator - as far as Russia is concerned. He isn't even a member of the EU, not a buyer, seller or owner in any of it. And has ties with China who "is supposed to be supporting Russia" ... but seeks weekness and losses also.

* It likely wouldn't be a war anyway - Russia would topple it as quickly and efficiently as possible, avoiding un-necessary losses. They would also "run right around nato like they were standing still", rather than confront nato.


IT IS POSSIBLE AND PLAUSIBLE

If it were me, I would take the talks seriously


I would assume giving Russia lip would lead to "a change in leadership in Kyiv and a possible change of oligarchy". And also that is what Russia demands their population believe of their influence within their own country: that kindness and talks offered are to be ignored only at peril.

"As Russian Troops Mass in Belarus, a Ukraine Border Is Largely Undefended"

and so all of the Russian border they took the 100,000 soldiers away from !!

Ukraine is starting to look like Spaign



but Moscow is starting to look like Ukraine ?

So. The pentagon is probably laughing at me.

But I'd say this:

100,000 with fast transports can swoop in and get things done.

NATO would have to "attack to stop it", NATO would have to start a war.

Ukraine would not be able to "push it back with ukrainian tanks" unless NATO pre-struck russia's tanks, since russia has that covered. Once again the reliance is on NATO starting a war or Russia winning.

NATO would have to start a war in a peaceful country, turn it into a kind of Syria.

If they didn't, then Russia couldn't be stopped.

But would NATO have the balls to do that and to strike first? No.

What would NATO do if Russia had already swept in and had control? NATO could decide AFTER to go in and get the russians out. That would be like a Syria since the Russians would not "leave just because they were confronted".

MEANWHILE china is making big inroads (factories, land, mining) in "the unknown reaches of Russia", and the Oligarchs are getting paid well for it

They all (especially CHINA) have interests in OIL not being sold by "adversaries" (those who would sell it for less and ruin CHINA's uprising in Russia)

But that's not WHY Russia is interested in Ukraine. The reason is the same as Chechnya.

USA Politicians keep reminding if USA wasn't awarding CHINA and dems weren't funneling USA taxpayer money that Russia's bark wouldn't have enough bite.

However that isn't the current situation. The current situation is if Russia believes Ukraine is like Chechnya.

I dont know.Been thinking a lot about Patton...maybe he was right.This war has been delayed since 1945...lets just do it and get it over with,fuck another cold war.Putin reminds me of the husband that constantly accuses his wife of cheating which in turn pushes her to cheat since he already thinks she is anyway.Biden better have his fucking finger on the button...equal rights for everyone.Russian children will burn and melt just as equally as American children.

If I were Joe, though since I wasn't really involved



I would focus on USA owning productive mining land and refining factories in Russia to compete with CHINA in Russia.

Good investment deals the Russians would prefer to bikering over Ukraine.

I would bet that.

The Russian military is an Il-equipped, Undertrained and poorly led rabble that couldn’t defeat a second rate European in a conventional war if it’s existence depended on it.

But I wouldn't use taxpayer money my whole life to make deals with china for personal wealth while betraying USA's interests like Joe. I hate Joe.

There's already a war in Ukraine. Russia doesn't need to invade. They can just fan the flames with their forces parked on the border.

Bdug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Russian military is an Il-equipped,
> Undertrained and poorly led rabble that couldn’t
> defeat a second rate European in a conventional
> war if it’s existence depended on it.

the PROBLEM i already described above. even IF your not bragging, and you are

nato is just a troll. russia is in the position to get what they want. nato would have to climb tall hills to get what they want.

NATO failed in Syria. (although i'm very unsure USA should have cared - we'd only care that IRAN doesn't attack Isreal)

NATO would have to quietly sink russian subs.

NATO would have to ... say "hey, Vlad took tanks and troops away from NE russia for SE russia - and that is where we will screw him over"

NATO "isn't in attack mode", to do so they'd have to enter Russia which is a whole another story: they cannot win while they are playing troll role playing.

Just weeks ago, the BBC liars said they were beefing up the forces because of Mulsim Spring muslim immigrants on the border the wrong direction through europe.

THEY SAID THE FORCES WERE TO ESCORT ILLEGAL ALIENS through belarus. They said it was for peace keeping, to "help muslims cross through Ukraine into safety"

why does BBC keep their dumb ass WOKE LYING up even during serious situations???

45huy655 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bdug Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Russian military is an Il-equipped,
> > Undertrained and poorly led rabble that
> couldn’t
> > defeat a second rate European in a conventional
> > war if it’s existence depended on it.
>
> the PROBLEM i already described above. even IF
> your not bragging, and you are
>
> nato is just a troll. russia is in the position
> to get what they want. nato would have to climb
> tall hills to get what they want.


Russia isn’t in a position to do anything other than create the illusion that is capable of steam rolling through Ukraine (it isn’t). Russia is going broke just moving hardware and personnel into theater. The Ukrainian military is a lot more robust than people are getting credit for.

Russia has already sustained horrific loses to its forces in Ukraine who are masquerading as rebel forces. Russia has the means to perhaps take a kilometer or two of gains, but can’t sustain that in a long term conflict in country.

the BBC is NOW saying the forces are NOT for protecting illegal aliens - they are for hating putin

STOP LYING MAYBE SOMEONE WILL TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY

in USA we (i mean republicans) have problems creating industry and employing our own (DUE TO DEMOCRATS)

it means if we wanted to make deals with Russia about expanding mining and industry: sacrifice

Joe is the man of "running away from responsibility and betraying his neighbors" - of funneling money to CHINA's expansion in Russia which is USA's problems everywhere, not our solutions

He isn't the right man for today's problems.

USA isn't disputing vacation time % in Cuba veruses Russias, as was the case during Bill Clinton (which USA ate huble pie in, EU and Russia went on vacation 10x more than americans did)

Currently - we are talking about employement and frozen economies.

there's been MASSIVE GAINS in some areas (sky scrapers built by banks - totally changing the landscape of SOME cities), while in other areas people being told "there's no job, please wait", have been frozen out. that's true all over the world.

cities greater than New York City have popped up countless places. and joblessness and also spread like COVID in others

jkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont know.Been thinking a lot about
> Patton...maybe he was right.This war has been
> delayed since 1945...lets just do it and get it
> over with,fuck another cold war.Putin reminds me
> of the husband that constantly accuses his wife of
> cheating which in turn pushes her to cheat since
> he already thinks she is anyway.Biden better have
> his fucking finger on the button...equal rights
> for everyone.Russian children will burn and melt
> just as equally as American children.

You sound like you know a lot about military and geopolitical affairs. Based upon your hawkish views, I imagine you have your go bag all packed, your weapons cleaned and oiled , and your ammo cans filled. When are you leaving for the Ukrainian border to take up a post and stand ready to repel the red hordes?

Bdib Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 45huy655 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bdug Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The Russian military is an Il-equipped,
> > > Undertrained and poorly led rabble that
> > couldn’t
> > > defeat a second rate European in a
> conventional
> > > war if it’s existence depended on it.
> >
> > the PROBLEM i already described above. even IF
> > your not bragging, and you are
> >
> > nato is just a troll. russia is in the
> position
> > to get what they want. nato would have to
> climb
> > tall hills to get what they want.
>
>
> Russia isn’t in a position to do anything other
> than create the illusion that is capable of steam
> rolling through Ukraine (it isn’t). Russia is
> going broke just moving hardware and personnel
> into theater. The Ukrainian military is a lot more
> robust than people are getting credit for.
>
> Russia has already sustained horrific loses to its
> forces in Ukraine who are masquerading as rebel
> forces. Russia has the means to perhaps take a
> kilometer or two of gains, but can’t sustain
> that in a long term conflict in country.

Ukrainian dis-information, probably posted from asians.

jkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont know.Been thinking a lot about
> Patton...maybe he was right.This war has been
> delayed since 1945...lets just do it and get it
> over with,fuck another cold war.Putin reminds me
> of the husband that constantly accuses his wife of
> cheating which in turn pushes her to cheat since
> he already thinks she is anyway.Biden better have
> his fucking finger on the button...equal rights
> for everyone.Russian children will burn and melt
> just as equally as American children.

Patton was on the move in a dynamic war that lasted a lifetime. You'd have to be born into it.

Your weren't.

You'd have to be willing to invade wherever the enemy took forces away from while stalling them WHERE they put there forces - and have an overall strategy - such as "out manufacturing". Always on the move always forcing the enemy into making wins at a loss.

there's the "win the war in the first 3 days" (this would require dis-abling Russia's nuclear missiles) - the "our weapons and tech are so great" - but russia and france have countless satellites ... things are different russia isn't iraq

things aren't as they were during Patton. and people are not born into the kind of dynamic "continually challenging the font on all fronts" kind of war Patton had to run

Patton was protecting previous borders. He was a man of God.

Patton was not an "aggressor".

Saying Patton was a conqueror seeking expansion is not correct. Patton cleaned up after aggressors.

4u676 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

> Patton was protecting previous borders. He was a
> man of God.
>
> Patton was not an "aggressor".
>
> Saying Patton was a conqueror seeking expansion is
> not correct. Patton cleaned up after aggressors.
>

Ray Ray needs to reread a history book.

Really big print must mean it’s true but Patton was nothing more than a narcissist and over inflated ego.

War with Russia is enviable. Are you ready, willing and able to fight(and die)for our values, freedoms and the flag?
Patton would call you a coward for anything less.
No more posts and move your ass, future American soldier.

USA was involved in many small asian conflicts and some hispanic ones too. at a time when europe and asian dictators was also. that was before wwii mostly.

USA hasn't not ever done what Russia has done - supported leaders who promised favorable terms for USA relations (ex, lower taxes on USA businesses operating with them, or released tariffs or un-signing embargos)

How did Russia successfully "take Chechnya".

THEY DIDN'T

There were some rich oligarchs in Chechnya "running the show" with no ability to "sustain a war inside their country to protect the oligarchs". The people there were under absolute rule and got their "old absolute ruler back" and were unable to, themselves, dispute the new or old authority without personal risk.

Between 1990 and 2014 (when russia came back in took chechnya and crimea), Chechnyan oligars warred among themselves for power.

INFACT - WIKIPEDIA DENIES when russia took them back and refuses to note any battle at all, WIKIPEDIA only "admits" russian leaders are currently in power.

RUSSIA rushed in, took care of these few "oligarchs" (arresting them), and for the most part that was IT. Unfortunately for them: Russia's prison sentences are quite inflexible for most.

They didn't "fight a whole war in Chechnya" PER SAY. That's not what happened.

______________________________----

FROM MY INKLING OF UNDERSTANDING OF AN ARTICLE SAW FOR ONLY FEW SECONDS - Russia didn't do allot of warfare fighting to get back chechnya and crimea

they rushed in with power that couldn't be countered to where the oligarchs were, took the oligarchs prisoner, left guards to protect russian politicians left to hold "new elections"

this seems to be the exception to the rule of "evading damage and gettin the job done". the tank that did this was un-challenged, there are many photos of it merely "parked and with a clear shot", it fired a single shot

it is obviously a building which chechnyan oligarchs were using to organize their influence over the area and symbolized in many minds that "the old governor no longer had an office"

>

Your grandfathers would have already enlisted to fight. Don’t be a bunch of pussy chickenshits like Tucker Carlson, Eric and Donnie, jr., join the military and be prepared to fight for the freedom’s of the United States of America!
Don’t be a disgrace to your family and yourself.

>

Your grandfathers would have already enlisted to fight. Don’t be a bunch of pussy chickenshits like Tucker Carlson, Eric and Donnie, jr., join the military and be prepared to fight for the freedom’s of the United States of America!
Don’t be a disgrace to your family and yourself.

I SEEM TO BE SOMEWHAT WRONG - in the 1990's there were many more buildings damaged much more warfare between russian and ex-russian generals. Islamists terrorists, however, were also involved not just Chechnya. I don't think I ever learned, during the 1990's, of the extent of that.

yet a few tanks can "take out allot of buildings in just a part of a day". I have no idea of really how much actual fighting and building damage there was in the 1990's

WIKIPEDIA makes this difficult, while one articles says 28 russians died seizing Goznya, wikipedia says 300,000 including "ethnically displaced persons", making sizing it up rather difficult

RUSSIA fought and was kicked out early on - weakened economically from 1990 crash. Only came back years later in a winning manner.

another article says Russia had control by 2007 while others say 2014. hmmm.

6 suspected militants killed in Russia's Chechnya - ABC News
https://abcnews.go.com › International › wireStory › su...
Jan 20, 2021 — FILE - In this Friday, May 10, 2019 file photo, Chechnya's regional leader Ramzan Kadyrov speaks during a meeting in Grozny, Russia.

the kind of story i remember seeing in the 1990's frequently. small conflicts in places i'd never heard of - and NOTHING ELSE. no discussion by USA MEDIA.

small things, croatia serbia gozyna chechnya and many others - so many places i wasn't sure where they all were. the news never did say "arabs were warring against whites" (i came to understand that only years later) nor did they say "russia is fighting to get back the land from states that succeeded in the 1990's". in the 1990's the news did say "a few nations were considering separating from russia or already had" - they never underline that major wars were eminent. and when conficts did happen they never said what was going on really. they were too busy covering BILL CLINTON.

in the 1990's the USA media showed maps of which countries were succeededing "or talking about succeeding" from russia. they talked about it in cupcake terms of "wanting to be free from communism" not about terms of generals who changed sides or other dangerous nations that might be involved.

they talked about the POSSIBILITY russia might invade and whether Russia still had the money and resolve to do anything about it - and whether those nations would be too far advanced in their new life for Russia to change anything when they were ready.

THE BILL CLINTON YEARS in the USA, "al gore cable tv" i'll now call it.

THEY WERE WRONG.

6 suspected militants killed in Russia's Chechnya - ABC News
https://abcnews.go.com › International › wireStory › su...
Jan 20, 2021 — FILE - In this Friday, May 10, 2019 file photo, Chechnya's regional leader Ramzan Kadyrov speaks during a meeting in Grozny, Russia.

the NEW CABLE TV MEDIA (the al gore network pretending to be the old network)

they'd quickly play these clips - skirmishes - some remote area most people never heard of. continually ALWAYS LIE ABOUT WHO HAD THE UPPPER HAND - and never say which battle was in what country practically - let alone if Russia was involved

LOOKING BACK - I'M AMAZED HOW BAD THE USA NEWS COVERAGE WAS - and how it "burried the news of what was going on" so thoroughly.

Millenials should dis-believe any CUPCAKE talk about liberation from Russia and personal sovereignty.

They should dis-believe any news of battles "being small", and even the outcome, if they're watching CNN especially, even who was fighting and who won make be fake you can't trust CNN for anything.


They should disbelieve Xiden Biden might not be actually just costing USA and Russia money to help put China a little ahead in the Oil and Mining war in Russia's very large "back 40".

Millenials SHOULD believe that EU is complaining about GAS PRICES

while they could have made deals with russia to invest in supplying gas - they made UBUNTU to help china "spy on and take over usa's electronics", ARM, android

Number of ABUS airplanes delivered to Russia: I can't find any news of that.

Russia's Azimuth Airlines orders six Airbus A220-300 jets
https://www.reuters.com › business › aerospace-defense
Jul 21, 2021 — Russian private carrier Azimuth Airlines has ordered six Airbus A220-300 jets to use on domestic and international flights, Airbus (AIR.

AH!

Russia to Buy 50 Boeing Jets Worth $3.7 Billion | IndustryWeek
https://www.industryweek.com › leadership › article › r...
Sep 17, 2010 — Russia to Buy 50 Boeing Jets Worth $3.7 Billion. Sept. 17, 2010. Boeing said it currently has an order backlog of 2,000 for its 737 liner.

Russia’s aviation industry is in the midst of a renaissance. The new narrowbody MC-21 is set to be certified before the end of 2021, and the last few years have sparked domestic production of both engines and composite materials. Russia and the CIS countries will reportedly need over 1,500 new planes between now and 2040.

It's definitely a PUSH, a push is on that CHINA (also russia) doesn't want any imports, wants to expand exports but they DO WANT fuel payed for.

EU on the other hand is raging in the news "3x the gas price this year" (infact just weeks ago i checked the prices were more like California prices - not 3x as claimed - not comparing to USA)

BUT AGAIN - IT'S GOOD TO ASK HOW EU MIGHT COMPLY WITH RUSSIA'S DEMANDS

But russia isn't asking for more Airbus, they are demanding Ukraine not be a nation which "is alighed agaisnt Moscow and Russia"

https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-1-mil-passengers-december-2021/

for a Country that USA rarely hears of and has no imports from - that's allot of motion going on - amazing

Deadly discovery of dubious licenses

Following the crash of Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) flight 8303 in May 2020, resulting in the death of 98 people, it became apparent that several pilots were working for the airline under falls pretenses.

they may soon be back in USA and EU again. (question: is that because biden is dubious?)

https://simpleflying.com/icelandair-toilet-quarantine-room/

A few days before Christmas, a school teacher from Chicago was traveling to Reykjavik with her family. SHE WAS FORCED TO STAY IN TEH BATHROOM THE WHOLE FLIGHT becuause "she mighta had covid"

THIS WORLD IS JACK SHIT CRAZY - THAT'S WHAT I'M SURE OF

and WTOP just played another "threat propaganda release" that a boy was arrested by militant police from his home and had no chance of stopping the invasion - and that he was assumed guilty before the police arrival and he will get no court hearing the news will ever speak of: FUCK ASSHOLE MARYLAND SACKS OF SHIT. GET OFF MY AIRWAVES.

I like the ideal of President Trump flying to Moscow and meeting with President Putin. What a great gesture of American diplomacy.

MEANWHILE - EU and USA and INDIA have spammed the news with 100,000 fake articles all which talke about "Russia's security demands" WITHOUT EVER SHOWING A SINGLE OF THOSE DEMANDS

they are fakers, liars, assholes

Russia’s demand:

* delist Ukraine from NATO

* not escalate forces in the area


(this i think is true because it's in Moscow Times Independent - if bill gates and al gore didn't proxy war me)

This is equivalent to saying it all. "EU, USA, NATO is to ignore the situation entirely".

* not to sell or gift ukraine weapons

(so obvious russia didn't need to say it, if they even did)

So - Russia has not rushed toward conflict.

This will go BADLY against NATO.

NATO will not be able to claim two important things

* that land and materials wasn't removed from control of Russia (1990's)

* that NATO wasn't given an opportunity to act peacefull

* NATO won't be able to claim they were "peace keeping"

Russia doesn’t stand a chance in a conventional war with the US or NATO.
Attachments:

* it's plausible that it was NATO WHO ESCALATED TROOPS not Russia, not first, althought that's difficult to see or argue news wise

(remember the immigrant invasion on ukraine border wich NATO claimed to be "responding to")

* it's plausible Russia has not been the source of escalation: that they've only demanded non-escalation due to "recent advances" by others to "cause ukraine to float further from russia, and to further militarize it"

"Russian children will burn and melt just as equally as American children."...that may sound bad or extreme but given Russia's current military doctrine on the use of nuclear weapons in a time of war...it isnt.This could very very easily turn in to global thermonuclear war.

My cock tastes like salt!

jkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Russian children will burn and melt just as
> equally as American children."...that may sound
> bad or extreme but given Russia's current military
> doctrine on the use of nuclear weapons in a time
> of war...it isnt.This could very very easily turn
> in to global thermonuclear war.


The world could use another refresher course.

I don't care tommorow is the first will my welfare check be on time the PO lost last months , I had nothing but stems and seeds to blaze for two weeks till it finally showed

I still say it's a good time to stamp those US arms sent to the Ukraine MADE IN CHINA

jkr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Russian children will burn and melt just as
> equally as American children."...that may sound
> bad or extreme but given Russia's current military
> doctrine on the use of nuclear weapons in a time
> of war...it isnt.This could very very easily turn
> in to global thermonuclear war

Americans are all grateful for your willingness to go to Ukraine and defend their borders against the Red hordes. Surely someone with your extensive military experience and training will turn the tide. When do you deploy ?

* We now have that USA is moving 3,000 "more" (troops) to "the area"

but that is not eternal infact if Trump is relected they are likely to be called out

* We now have that Russia has been moving around (in response to positions made poor due to nato positions or inner ukraine positions POSSIBLY)

* Russia can leave and come back later. Which they've already done before. it is NATO that cannot come and leave quickly , and NATO which can "eternally stand guard" or let down their guard of ukraine

any ukrainian added defenses will be semi-eternal - if they take on turks and weapons

and that's been the 2nd of Russia's two demands

1) declare NATO will not militarily defend Ukraine (not a "member")

2) stop pushing in (turks) and weapons into ukraine to create a semi-eternal anti-russian nation

YOU SEE RUSSIA CONCERNED if "ukraine suddenly is gifted enough armaments to make ukraine an anti-russian nation russia's border that russia cannot easily conquer

IT IS JOE XIDEN BIDEN who, to favor Turkey and China, be pushing Russia to make a move "quickly"

Because without pumping in turks and weapons: russia could just walk away for 5 yr , Trump would direct troops (and funds) elsewhere, and russia would be back again.

THE PROBABILITY IS DIRECTLY CO-ORDINATE WITH NATO's USE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND WEAPONS TRADED FOR "future oil forgiveness"

we could definitely put a number on it rising or falling

it was exactly what russia said was it's top two demands

Russia could maybe put it on the back burner. Like this:

* leave

* sour ukraine and corrupt it with bribes and such (like china has the USA)

* insure the weapons "go bad", are sunk sold or stolen exported

* wait until there is complacency

They would do that if they feld economic factors demanded the situation be more slow and delicate.

I would BET that Russia *might* be convinced to be peaceful for a time IF

* Ukraine de-militariezed

* floods of immigrants were not allowed (from enemies of russia - non-russians)

but I would NOT bet Xiden Biden and China's cheerleader (the UK) will do that

I think they will pinch Putin because "if you are lower, i am higher" is china's model and moral

therefore, Putin should look to "pinch the pinchers". i'm unsure how it's not my business to provide a plan obviously

BUT ANOTHER FACTOR OF PROBABILITY ...

is that Russia didn't act immediately ...

1) EU began flooding (illegal immigrants) on Ukraines border

2) EU moved troops it said "to escore the immigrants into or through Ukraine"

3) Russia said this was un-acceptable - move troops

4) EU began moving weapons into Ukraine (possibly, if Russia didn't prevent them)

5) EU began stalling

SO DID RUSSIA KNOW THIS WAS A GAME OF STALLING - THAT IS, THEY COULD HAVE ACTED FASTER AND APPARENTLY INVITED STALLING

(John Bachelor - the John Bachelor show)

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-john-batchelor-show/id589864479

WEST Ukraine and East ukraine are not "as together as Americans assume".

and geographically - east ukraine is "a mess, it's twisted and thin with 3 states for many many miles"

geography - SORRY - no - the country with "the tangled arm" is uzbekistan area - never mind the geography comment

an American would think over "it's allot of bullies making excuses for raising fuel prices on not-china not-russia"

however i don't think so

perhaps it's a chance (by either side) to weaken by embargos, but perhaps it is as it appears