Massachusetts, which has a similar health care set up to what is proposed under ObamaCare, is having a small problem. Almost all the insurers asked for 100-200% rate hikes this year, which the state denied I'm sure because they subsidize those rates for the poor. They're probably asking for the increase due to people gaming the system http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2010/04/04/short_term_customers_boosting_health_costs?mode=PF

The state for their part, said there's no reason why the insurance companies can't just charge what they charged last year.

Now all but one of the insurance companies have all filed suit against Massachusetts, and state residents have a grand total of (1) plan, Celticare, to chose from. It only covers doctors/hospitals in the Boston area. Nice.

Mitt Romney should be proud.

http://www.bostonherald.com/business/healthcare/view.bg?articleid=1245166&srvc=rss
https://www.mahealthconnector.org/portal/site/connector/template.PAGE/menuitem.55b6e23ac6627f40dbef6f47d7468a0c



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2010 07:49PM by trogdor!.

Did you read your own article? Not once were poor/subsidized people mentioned. Young people..gaiming the system was given as a reason. Seems like a few easy fixes could solve the problems.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Celticare?




\
Attachments:

The same version already failed in Hawaii too. Everyone dumped their private insurance, and scrambled for the cheap governmental offerings. Too many people bought into it, and it failed to work.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Healthcare is a simply supply/demand. Screw with the market forces and it breaks down...the reason Canadians often come here for MRIs and other treatments.

Basically...we're doomed.

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Healthcare is a simply supply/demand. Screw with
> the market forces and it breaks down...the reason
> Canadians often come here for MRIs and other
> treatments.
>
> Basically...we're doomed.


You are so right. I can't swing a dead cat w/o hitting some Canadian looking for cheap MRI. Actually, I know about 3 canadians and they're all employed here since the work/money is so much better

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Healthcare is a simply supply/demand. Screw with
> the market forces and it breaks down...the reason
> Canadians often come here for MRIs and other
> treatments.
>
> Basically...we're doomed.


That's stupid...based on your theory even the introduction of our present system of insurance distorts the heathcare supply and demnad so as to "fuck it up". The example of Canadians coming here for MRIs is not evidence that their system sucks...the fact is we have too many MRIs..that over supply is a distortion. Your example is like saying it's a good thing we have hospitals with empty beds.

The level of analysis on healthcare on here is really dismal...you all just parrot what cynic on fox "news" tell you to say.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you read your own article? Not once were
> poor/subsidized people mentioned. Young
> people..gaiming the system was given as a reason.
> Seems like a few easy fixes could solve the
> problems.

Two separate issues Vince. I speculated it was also because of gaming the system, but subsidies are the real reason the state doesn't want the premiums to increase.

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Massachusetts, which has a similar health care set
> up to what is proposed under ObamaCare, is having
> a small problem. Almost all the insurers asked
> for 100-200% rate hikes this year, which the state
> denied I'm sure because they subsidize those rates
> for the poor. They're probably asking for the
> increase due to people gaming the system
> http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2010/04
> /04/short_term_customers_boosting_health_costs?mod
> e=PF
>
> The state for their part, said there's no reason
> why the insurance companies can't just charge what
> they charged last year.
>
> Now all but one of the insurance companies have
> all filed suit against Massachusetts, and state
> residents have a grand total of (1) plan,
> Celticare, to chose from. It only covers
> doctors/hospitals in the Boston area. Nice.
>
> Mitt Romney should be proud.
>
> http://www.bostonherald.com/business/healthcare/vi
> ew.bg?articleid=1245166&srvc=rss
> https://www.mahealthconnector.org/portal/site/conn
> ector/template.PAGE/menuitem.55b6e23ac6627f40dbef6
> f47d7468a0c


Another reason Romney will fail in 2012.

I wonder if the GOP will tank Massachusettes healthcare to do in Obamacare for 2010/2012

ThePackLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The same version already failed in Hawaii too.
> Everyone dumped their private insurance, and
> scrambled for the cheap governmental offerings.
> Too many people bought into it, and it failed to
> work.


You mean they ended up with single payer? imagine that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The example of Canadians coming
> here for MRIs is not evidence that their system
> sucks...the fact is we have too many MRIs..

Dude, seriously?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Being vague is almost as fun as that other thing.

Melissa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The example of Canadians coming
> > here for MRIs is not evidence that their system
> > sucks...the fact is we have too many MRIs..
>
> Dude, seriously?


so...your theory is we cant have too many MRI machines? The US fascination with technology often leads to market distortions that increase costs.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Say what you will, but in most single payer countries the wait list for advanced procedures is atrocious.

Dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Say what you will, but in most single payer
> countries the wait list for advanced procedures is
> atrocious.


Say what you will but all independent surveys show higher satisfaction with single payer healthcare systems..then ours does.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Against my better judgement, I read this thread. I think I just got a permanent 1d4 drain on my INT score.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Here comes the reality..

Medical Schools Can't Keep Up
As Ranks of Insured Expand, Nation Faces Shortage of 150,000 Doctors in 15 Years
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304506904575180331528424238.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond

Quote

...
The U.S. has 352,908 primary-care doctors now, and the college association estimates that 45,000 more will be needed by 2020. But the number of medical-school students entering family medicine fell more than a quarter between 2002 and 2007.

A shortage of primary-care and other physicians could mean more-limited access to health care and longer wait times for patients.

Proponents of the new health-care law say it does attempt to address the physician shortage. The law offers sweeteners to encourage more people to enter medical professions, and a 10% Medicare pay boost for primary-care doctors.

Meanwhile, a number of new medical schools have opened around the country recently. As of last October, four new medical schools enrolled a total of about 190 students, and 12 medical schools raised the enrollment of first-year students by a total of 150 slots, according to the AAMC. Some 18,000 students entered U.S. medical schools in the fall of 2009, the AAMC says.

But medical colleges and hospitals warn that these efforts will hit a big bottleneck: There is a shortage of medical resident positions. The residency is the minimum three-year period when medical-school graduates train in hospitals and clinics.

There are about 110,000 resident positions in the U.S., according to the AAMC. Teaching hospitals rely heavily on Medicare funding to pay for these slots. In 1997, Congress imposed a cap on funding for medical residencies, which hospitals say has increasingly hurt their ability to expand the number of positions.
...

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

The only reason you have these residency positions at teaching hospitals is BECAUSE of Medicare and the government. If you left it strictly to the private sector, there wouldn't be ANY.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

We have a doctor shortage in this country due to managed care, not government controlled health care. The shortage is due to private sector insurers reducing their reimbursement rates to doctors. If it were strictly an issue with Medicare, we wouldn't be seeing shortages with general practitioners and OB/GYNs. And while malpractice insurance costs are certainly an issue, most doctors complain about the workload and low reimbursements and paperwork required by private sector managed care. In fact, the new trend among doctors is to take cash-paying patients only...which has nothing to do with malpractice insurance and everything to do with low reimbursement rates.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Mitt Romney addresses O'Reilly's accusations that RomneyCare is a "fiscal disaster":

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have a doctor shortage in this country due to
> managed care, not government controlled health
> care. The shortage is due to private sector
> insurers reducing their reimbursement rates to
> doctors. If it were strictly an issue with
> Medicare, we wouldn't be seeing shortages with
> general practitioners and OB/GYNs. And while
> malpractice insurance costs are certainly an
> issue, most doctors complain about the workload
> and low reimbursements and paperwork required by
> private sector managed care. In fact, the new
> trend among doctors is to take cash-paying
> patients only...which has nothing to do with
> malpractice insurance and everything to do with
> low reimbursement rates.

The rules were setup by the AMA folks to allow for total control over the number of doctors licensed each year. The fact that the residency positions are supported by Medicare is just a convenience - it is how the "private sector" folks managing the system are justifying/crying for the lack of doctors. The reality is, the government should have - as part of this health care change - regulated how doctors can become licensed and mandate how the residency requirements can be setup.

And on the reimbursement rates, how do you expect that to go if the government get's involved? They have already pledged to reduce medicare reimbursements by 21% (even though they keep putting that off and have tied it to the unemployment extension bill). Yes, all of this leads to fewer doctors as well - so again, how did the recent health care/insurance revamp help with any of this?

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2010 12:21PM by Registered Voter.

Voter___ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mitt Romney addresses O'Reilly's accusations that
> RomneyCare is a "fiscal disaster":
>
>

Did you listen to it?

Mass HAD and still HAS the highest per capita health care cost in the country. They still use money from the Fed (50% of their funding) to pay for it - but instead of the money going directly to hospitals (as it does everywhere else) to pay for folks without insurance, instead they use that money to provide insurance. Which honestly just sounds like a shell game - I can't believe the hospitals or doctors are getting that much better in reimbursement rates, although I suppose it gets spread around more. On top of that, Emergency room costs are up 13% I think he said? And the per capita expense has INCREASED from when it was enacted.

So it has gotten more expensive, in a state that already had the most expensive health care in the country. And somehow Obama, Pelosi and Reid are not total liars at this point? LOL

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Yes, I listened to it.


Registered Voter Wrote:
>
> Did you listen to it?
>
> Mass HAD and still HAS the highest per capita
> health care cost in the country. They still use
> money from the Fed (50% of their funding) to pay
> for it - but instead of the money going directly
> to hospitals (as it does everywhere else) to pay
> for folks without insurance, instead they use that
> money to provide insurance. Which honestly just
> sounds like a shell game - I can't believe the
> hospitals or doctors are getting that much better
> in reimbursement rates, although I suppose it gets
> spread around more. On top of that, Emergency room
> costs are up 13% I think he said? And the per
> capita expense has INCREASED from when it was
> enacted.
>
> So it has gotten more expensive, in a state that
> already had the most expensive health care in the
> country. And somehow Obama, Pelosi and Reid are
> not total liars at this point? LOL

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Voter___ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mitt Romney addresses O'Reilly's accusations
> that
> > RomneyCare is a "fiscal disaster":
> >
> >
>
> Did you listen to it?
>
> Mass HAD and still HAS the highest per capita
> health care cost in the country. They still use
> money from the Fed (50% of their funding) to pay
> for it - but instead of the money going directly
> to hospitals (as it does everywhere else) to pay
> for folks without insurance, instead they use that
> money to provide insurance. Which honestly just
> sounds like a shell game - I can't believe the
> hospitals or doctors are getting that much better
> in reimbursement rates, although I suppose it gets
> spread around more. On top of that, Emergency room
> costs are up 13% I think he said? And the per
> capita expense has INCREASED from when it was
> enacted.
>
> So it has gotten more expensive, in a state that
> already had the most expensive health care in the
> country. And somehow Obama, Pelosi and Reid are
> not total liars at this point? LOL


Liars? They promised heath insurance reform...we got health insurance reform Is it he best we couldve gotten...not without taking every Republican and shooting them in the head.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

lol@ all the fucking tin foil hats crying over government decisions.. The government have been doing shit like this longer than you have been alive and now you're all up in arms. Fucking lol!

Good thing Romney won the latest conservative straw poll.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

The GOP will never nominate a Morman...that is way too much diversity for a one dimensional political party.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Romney probably worked the program so that the insurance business would have the opportunity to rake in the cash. The bottom line for Neo/Old/Republican programs. Business first second and third. You and I are dead last.