Who would you say were the worst US presidents since WWII. I would suggest the following list:
1) Jimmy Carter
2) George Bush II
3) Richard Nixon

Bill Clinton

Most incompetent: Ford
Most devious: Nixon
Biggest disappointment: Carter


edit: Replace Carter with Bush Jr, but not in terms of being a disappointment. He was both incompetent and devious at the same time and was as detrimental to this country as Nixon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2009 04:35PM by PEN15.

The worst presidents, according to the survey, were James Buchanan at 42, Andrew Johnson at 41, Franklin Pierce, William Henry Harrison, Warren Harding, Millard Fillmore, George W. Bush, John Tyler, Herbert Hoover, and Rutherford B. Hayes.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/history/2009/02/17/historians-rank-george-w-bush-among-worst-presidents.html

PEN15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most incompetent: Ford
> Most devious: Nixon
> Biggest disappointment: Carter
>
>
> edit: Replace Carter with Bush Jr, but not in
> terms of being a disappointment. He was both
> incompetent and devious at the same time and was
> as detrimental to this country as Nixon.


I think most incompetent belongs to Carter.

Stinkfist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PEN15 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Most incompetent: Ford
> > Most devious: Nixon
> > Biggest disappointment: Carter
> >
> >
> > edit: Replace Carter with Bush Jr, but not in
> > terms of being a disappointment. He was both
> > incompetent and devious at the same time and
> was
> > as detrimental to this country as Nixon.
>
>
> I think most incompetent belongs to Carter.


Carter was a wimp as POTUS, but in his later years he became quite a philanthropist and almost brokered peace in the Middle East.

Smart, ethical man. Just not up to snuff for prez. He proved that you actually need some toughness to lead this country. (not fake Bush macho shit though)

Carter failed as President because he tried to micro-manage the Presidency, including handling the tennis court schedule at the White House, and allowing big issues, such as the economy and Iran, get out of hand.

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Stinkfist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Smart, ethical man. Just not up to snuff for prez.
> He proved that you actually need some toughness to
> lead this country. (not fake Bush macho shit
> though)


Agreed. He just didn't have the resilience to deal with Iran, the oil crisis, and the economy over time. Will Obama?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2009 06:45PM by PEN15.

Barrack Who's Sane O'Bama

Fairfax Felix Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who would you say were the worst US presidents
> since WWII. I would suggest the following list:
> 1) Jimmy Carter
> 2) George Bush II
> 3) Richard Nixon


Richard Nixon is the one who cleaned up the mess in Vietnam, so he should be afforded some leniency in regards to "Watergate". He is definitely not among the worst of Presidents.

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were horrible (National Security wimps), and LBJ screwed up with the War (He was picking bombing targets, and he chose the middle of the jungle).

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Stinkfist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Smart, ethical man. Just not up to snuff for prez.
> He proved that you actually need some toughness to
> lead this country. (not fake Bush macho shit
> though)


I honestly believe that Carter would have made a great Ambassador, because he seems to be such an affable and kind individual, but he simply wasn't tough enough for Executive Office. He was absolutely STUPID to give away the Panama Canal as well.

As for Bush Jr., he was tough. Sure, he wasn't a Reagan type strong, but he wasn't fake either (He was getting hammered left-and-right, but he held his ground).

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Jimmy Carter was definitely the WORST President of modern times. He did more to undermine US security in the world than any other.

I am still trying to remember why a peanut farmer from Georgia ever made it to the office. Sure, he served on submarines in the Navy - that just meant he could follow orders. He was Governor of Georgia for one term, but I just don't get it. How that ever translated to the Presidency is still amazing to me - other than the fact that Ford was really a bad candidate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter

Quote

...
The media discovered and promoted Carter, as Lawrence Shoup noted in his 1980 book The Carter Presidency and Beyond:
“ What Carter had that his opponents did not was the acceptance and support of elite sectors of the mass communications media. It was their favorable coverage of Carter and his campaign that gave him an edge, propelling him rocket-like to the top of the opinion polls. This helped Carter win key primary election victories, enabling him to rise from an obscure public figure to President-elect in the short space of 9 months. ”

Carter was interviewed by Robert Scheer of Playboy for its November 1976 issue, which hit the newsstands a couple of weeks before the election. It was here that in the course of a digression on his religion's view of pride, Carter admitted: "I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times." He remains the only American president to be interviewed by this magazine.
...

I guess that answers my question...

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Speaking of Carter, let's not forget he was almost assassinated by a swimming rabbit.

There is a difference between being tough and stubborn. Shrub had misplaced confidence that led him to believe he was always right no matter what--and he was nearly always wrong. For my money he was the worst president in my lifetime, for sure. I think he would have been far less damaging to the country if 9/11 hadn't happened and if he hadn't had Republican majorities in Congress that pretty much did whatever he wanted. Whatever, he's gone now and we have just begun to start digging out.


ThePackLeader Wrote:
> As for Bush Jr., he was tough. Sure, he wasn't a
> Reagan type strong, but he wasn't fake either (He
> was getting hammered left-and-right, but he held
> his ground).

Obama......the worst...

makes Jimmy Carter look like a preacher...

Jimmy Carter was a terrible President. But anyone who tries to make the case that Nixon wasn't all that bad or the Clinton wasn't all that good are arguing against history. It's pretty evident that Nixon will go down as one of the worst Presidents and that Clinton will be in the Top 3rd of Presidents and could possibly climb higher with time.

As for Dubya, I still think it is too early to determine where history will rate him, but I don't think the prospects are very good, especially if Obama comes out looking good in the next few years. Bush Jr. had two wars he started and didn't finish and The Great Recession on his watch. Whatever people want to debate about torture or wiretaps or anything else, those facts won't change. Bush is LBJ and Hoover wrapped into one.

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Again - 9/11 will be the mitigating factor in all of it. Eventually the blame will most likely fall more to Clinton (remember Sandy Berger destroying documents in the archives) and Bush will get some of that - but he dealt with a recession and a war he didn't ask for. He may have had a heavy hand with Iraq, but without 9/11 it would have taken a lot more than ill will for him to get agreement to send troops over - instead of the Clinton-esque cruise missile and bombing runs.

9/11 was a game changer - I don't understand the left - you want to act like it never happened. Unfortunately it did.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Again - 9/11 will be the mitigating factor in all
> of it. Eventually the blame will most likely fall
> more to Clinton (remember Sandy Berger destroying
> documents in the archives) and Bush will get some
> of that - but he dealt with a recession and a war
> he didn't ask for.

Who got the blame for the Bay of Pigs? Eisenhower or Kennedy?

Who got the blame for the 1929 market crash? Coolidge or Hoover?

9/11 happened on Bush's watch. End of story.

And while Bush didn't ask for the War in Afghanistan, he did ask for the war in Iraq. And The Great Recession started on his watch and he did very little about it (see Herbert Hoover, who got the blame, and FDR, who got the credit for fighting it).


> He may have had a heavy hand
> with Iraq, but without 9/11 it would have taken a
> lot more than ill will for him to get agreement to
> send troops over - instead of the Clinton-esque
> cruise missile and bombing runs.
>

Those "cruise missile and bombing runs" destroyed what little WMD capability Saddam had left.

> 9/11 was a game changer - I don't understand the
> left - you want to act like it never happened.
> Unfortunately it did.


Yes. On Bush's watch. He was getting warnings about it and did nothing.

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Yes, I suppose the fact that Clinton wanted to deal with terrorism like an exercise in Law Enforcement should be overlooked. That is the one that will go down - the fact that folks didn't want to recognize that you couldn't fight battles with paramilitary religious fanatics using standard LE personnel.

It would have been hard for Bush to move the military for use in Iraq if 9/11 did not happen. There would have been no public support for it, and the MSM wouldn't have rah rah'd the story so that it could happen.

You seem to have some hard on for Bush taking the blame for all the world's ills - the problem of course is reality - much like AGW. The evidence will show that Congress on both sides received "bribes" (see campaign contributions) to look the other way on a number of issues. Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and a number of other Democrats and Republicans have had MUCH to do with the current state of financial issues. I don't blame Obama for things that started with Bush - what I will blame Obama for is allowing grossly negligent spending policies that may bankrupt the country. We may have been in a recession when this he came into office, but so far we still have over half of the stimulus funds not spent, and it will be arguable that the only thing those funds that were spent did was ensure that folks working in the government didn't lose jobs and add to unemployment. If, as you think, the recent job numbers mean the economy is turning around - it will have very little to do with the stimulus funds. At this point they would be better rescinding the rest of that bill, and getting the deficit under control - especially if Obama is committed to keeping troops in Afghanistan.

If Obama manages to get cap and trade, and health reform pushed through - AND it ends up sinking the economy in the way most people are predicting - it will be interesting as to how Obama will be remembered. So far he is pissing off his own base enough that about the only thing he will be remembered for will be as the 2nd black President, behind Bill Clinton.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2009 09:34PM by Registered Voter.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I suppose the fact that Clinton wanted to
> deal with terrorism like an exercise in Law
> Enforcement should be overlooked. That is the one
> that will go down - the fact that folks didn't
> want to recognize that you couldn't fight battles
> with paramilitary religious fanatics using
> standard LE personnel.
>

I suggest you review the number of terrorist attacks that occurred against American interests under Clinton versus those that occurred under Bush. Hundreds, if not thousands, occurred on Bush's watch compared to maybe a dozen under Clinton.

> It would have been hard for Bush to move the
> military for use in Iraq if 9/11 did not happen.
> There would have been no public support for it,
> and the MSM wouldn't have rah rah'd the story so
> that it could happen.
>
There would have been no public support for it because there was no reason for it. No WMD and Saddam was marginalized and was not a threat to his neighbors. Bush's actions in Iraq have destabilized Iraq and have made the radicals in Iran more powerful. You know those reformers in Iran who have been getting rounded up by the authorities in Iran? They actually ran the country in the 1990s when Clinton was President.

> You seem to have some hard on for Bush taking the
> blame for all the world's ills - the problem of
> course is reality - much like AGW. The evidence
> will show that Congress on both sides received
> "bribes" (see campaign contributions) to look the
> other way on a number of issues. Barney Frank,
> Chris Dodd, and a number of other Democrats and
> Republicans have had MUCH to do with the current
> state of financial issues. I don't blame Obama for
> things that started with Bush - what I will blame
> Obama for is allowing grossly negligent spending
> policies that may bankrupt the country. We may
> have been in a recession when this he came into
> office, but so far we still have over half of the
> stimulus funds not spent, and it will be arguable
> that the only thing those funds that were spent
> did was ensure that folks working in the
> government didn't lose jobs and add to
> unemployment. If, as you think, the recent job
> numbers mean the economy is turning around - it
> will have very little to do with the stimulus
> funds. At this point they would be better
> rescinding the rest of that bill, and getting the
> deficit under control - especially if Obama is
> committed to keeping troops in Afghanistan.
>

Which members of Congress were to blame for the Great Depression? Maybe Smoot-Hawley get some of the blame, but the poster child is Herbert Hoover. And while you and I understand the concerns over the deficit, average voters don't care, as long as they have jobs. And neither do historians based on the fact that Reagan is in the Top 10 Presidents despite the huge deficits he ran up under his Administration. And if you don't think Obama will get credit for any economic turnaround that occurs on his watch, you will be mistaken.

> If Obama manages to get cap and trade, and health
> reform pushed through - AND it ends up sinking the
> economy in the way most people are predicting - it
> will be interesting as to how Obama will be
> remembered. So far he is pissing off his own base
> enough that about the only thing he will be
> remembered for will be as the 2nd black President,
> behind Bill Clinton.


Even if Obama pisses off the left, they will mobilize behind Obama when Sarah Palin makes a run for POTUS. I don't think cap and trade will see the light of day and the health care reform won't take place for a few years, even if it does pass.

Sorry, but I think this is playing out well for Obama. You may be seeing more of him in 2013.

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Who got the blame for the Bay of Pigs? Eisenhower
> or Kennedy?
>
> Who got the blame for the 1929 market crash?
> Coolidge or Hoover?
>
> 9/11 happened on Bush's watch. End of story.
>

One thing you forget. Back then, there was no Internet, mass storage devices, etc. Kennedy got the blame for the Bay of Pigs because it was his operation to approve or not. Just because Eisenhower ordered it, the CIA created a plan that failed - they lacked proper intelligence but they came ahead and said they had plan that would work. Kennedy gave the go ahead on it so it was his to own at that point.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even if Obama pisses off the left, they will
> mobilize behind Obama when Sarah Palin makes a run
> for POTUS. I don't think cap and trade will see
> the light of day and the health care reform won't
> take place for a few years, even if it does pass.
>
> Sorry, but I think this is playing out well for
> Obama. You may be seeing more of him in 2013.

You seem to think I care if Obama is there or not. I don't. I would rather see Congress balanced back out. This country has always worked better when one party controls the Whitehouse and the other controls Congress. Always. As for your Palin woody, you might want to work on that - I admit she is nice to look at, and would probably get a lot of the male vote if she ends up running - there is a good chance though that someone like Jindal or Pawlenty might get the go ahead, especially if there are no other choices between now and then. They might be a bit dry, but I think the country is ready for dry - there has been way too much drama in the Whitehouse lately.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

The conservative base is mobilized behind Palin the way the liberal base was mobilized behind Obama. The RNC can't throw a snore-fest like Jindal or Pawlenty in there and expect them to succeed. The conservative base feels like they compromised with McCain and it cost them the election. If Palin decides to run, the nomination will be hers to lose.

One of three things will happen. Palin gets the nomination, the Democratic base is mobilized and moderates and independents go to Obama because they are terrified of Palin and Obama wins. Or, Palin runs, somehow fails to get the nomination, the base screams "23rd District Again!" and stays home while Romney or whoever gets the nomination goes down in flames against Obama. Or, Palin doesn't run at all, the base is demoralized and the Republicans can only hope that something terrible happens to Obama's Administration close enough to the election to stand a chance.

I really think 2012 hinges almost entirely on the state of the country at the time, because I think in a head-to-head contest, the Republicans, at this time, have no good options against Obama.

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The conservative base is mobilized behind Palin
> the way the liberal base was mobilized behind
> Obama.

Not even close. Obama had the black vote and the youth vote and he will likely get a bit of that again in 2012. He has lost a bit of the youth vote due to his failure to follow through on his promises - the fact that he is a politician like any other has lost him quite a bit of the "good will" vote. So that will really be the deciding factor - will independents stay with him or not. If reckless spending isn't reigned in soon, it won't matter. Right now also, the Congress under Pelosi and Reid is Obama's worst nightmare - they are doing more to damage him then his own policies are.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The conservative base is mobilized behind Palin
> > the way the liberal base was mobilized behind
> > Obama.
>
> Not even close. Obama had the black vote and the
> youth vote and he will likely get a bit of that
> again in 2012. He has lost a bit of the youth vote
> due to his failure to follow through on his
> promises - the fact that he is a politician like
> any other has lost him quite a bit of the "good
> will" vote. So that will really be the deciding
> factor - will independents stay with him or not.
> If reckless spending isn't reigned in soon, it
> won't matter. Right now also, the Congress under
> Pelosi and Reid is Obama's worst nightmare - they
> are doing more to damage him then his own policies
> are.

If the economy is good and national security seems secure, Obama will win by a bigger margin in 2012 than in 2008, regardless of how happy or unhappy the left is with his policies. An incumbent President with a good economy and good national security situation invariably goes up in the vote. I don't believe that will change for Obama.

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http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Which means nothing. I am not one of the people that keep posting on here that Obama will be a one term President. I won't cry if he is, but I am sure with his lock on the black vote he will very likely get re-elected unless he puts so many black folks out of work that they can't stand him anymore.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which means nothing. I am not one of the people
> that keep posting on here that Obama will be a one
> term President. I won't cry if he is, but I am
> sure with his lock on the black vote he will very
> likely get re-elected unless he puts so many black
> folks out of work that they can't stand him
> anymore.


I know a lot of white, middle class people who voted for Obama and will do so again.

You want to talk about Obama being off of his ivory tower. The unemployment rate may have very well peaked in November. You know what Obama's composite approval rating is? 48.5% You know what Reagan's was when unemployment was 10% on his watch? 35%

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Terrorism is a law enforcemnt issue...making it a war will make Bush II undoubtedly one of the 3 top worse presidents of all time. His expanding the "war" into Iraq will undoubtedly push him to numero uno. Numero dos is undoubtedly Prediente Andrew Jackson...his disregard for the Supreme Court decision protecting indian land rights gets him nominated...his desloution of the U.S Bank pushes him to numero dos. Third will be Preesidente Wilson...his inablilty to sell the League of Nations to his own country doomed that orgaization...he unleashed a number of insurgency groups that attempted to throw off the shackles of colonialism...the collapse of Wilson's 10 point plan left these movements unfulfilled. Many of the insurgents lost faith in the democratic worlds commitment to freedom and turned instead to only truly revolutionare movement of the 20th century...communism. Wilson was a flaming white supremist...which ensures his place as the 3rd worst president.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Terrorism is a law enforcemnt issue...making it a
> war will make Bush II undoubtedly one of the 3 top
> worse presidents of all time. His expanding the
> "war" into Iraq will undoubtedly push him to
> numero uno. Numero dos is undoubtedly Prediente
> Andrew Jackson...his disregard for the Supreme
> Court decision protecting indian land rights gets
> him nominated...his desloution of the U.S Bank
> pushes him to numero dos. Third will be
> Preesidente Wilson...his inablilty to sell the
> League of Nations to his own country doomed that
> orgaization...he unleashed a number of insurgency
> groups that attempted to throw off the shackles of
> colonialism...the collapse of Wilson's 10 point
> plan left these movements unfulfilled. Many of
> the insurgents lost faith in the democratic worlds
> commitment to freedom and turned instead to only
> truly revolutionare movement of the 20th
> century...communism. Wilson was a flaming white
> supremist...which ensures his place as the 3rd
> worst president.

LOL... frothing at the mouth as always. Might want to learn how to spell check too - or is just that you've been drinking? That was pretty funny even for you :)

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

blah..blah...blah..insult..call names...dwell on the unimportant....RV's life.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

"blah blah blah" - Vince's finest moment

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

well..you are certainly becoming the FFXU class clown...

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well..you are certainly becoming the FFXU class
> clown...

Vince, you took up that mantle long ago. Do you realize just how much your own worst enemy you are?

The fact that you keep coming after me is hilarious. Idiot is too kind a word for you.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

RV...I could care less hom much I am or am not my own worse enemy...I dont care if you or anyone else on here likes me...that kindergarten mentality was left behind a life time ago. I come here to voice another opinion to the constant circle jerks comments which you and a handful of others FOX "news" addicts constantly load this board with.


Oh..and I also come back to see how many times you mention my name...from out of the clear blue. It gives me joy to be a part of your self destruction.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RV...I could care less hom much I am or am not my
> own worse enemy...I dont care if you or anyone
> else on here likes me...that kindergarten
> mentality was left behind a life time ago. I come
> here to voice another opinion to the constant
> circle jerks comments which you and a handful of
> others FOX "news" addicts constantly load this
> board with.
>
>
> Oh..and I also come back to see how many times you
> mention my name...from out of the clear blue. It
> gives me joy to be a part of your self
> destruction.

This is entertainment for me Vince. Thanks :)

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Terrorism is a law enforcemnt issue...making it a war will make Bush II undoubtedly one of the 3 top worse presidents of all time. His expanding the "war" into Iraq will undoubtedly push him to numero uno. Numero dos is undoubtedly Prediente Andrew Jackson...his disregard for the Supreme Court decision protecting indian land rights gets him nominated...his desloution of the U.S Bank pushes him to numero dos. Third will be Preesidente Wilson...his inablilty to sell the League of Nations to his own country doomed that orgaization...he unleashed a number of insurgency groups that attempted to throw off the shackles of colonialism...the collapse of Wilson's 10 point plan left these movements unfulfilled. Many of the insurgents lost faith in the democratic worlds commitment to freedom and turned instead to only truly revolutionare movement of the 20th century...communism. Wilson was a flaming white supremist...which ensures his place as the 3rd worst president.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Hmm, Vince has his own delusional Facebook page too - now that is very interesting...

http://www.facebook.com/people/Vince-Delusion/1534417655

Seems Vince and Delusional have a long history... lol

Vince's delusions were legendary: he believed he had become instantly wealthy whilst waltzing with a well endowed womanfriend named Winifreda
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photocillin/4105361316/

This is like internet gold...

Vince's delusion of grandeur
http://www.popnography.com/2007/05/vinces_notentir.html

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registnerd Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brokaw Crash Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Registered Voter Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > It is laughable at best to see how fast folks
> > are
> > > trying to paint this as some BIG DEAL when we
> > all
> > > know that most of this is due to seasonal
> > hiring
> > > for Christmas. It happens EVERY YEAR - so it
> > > should be no surprise to anyone that some
> > people
> > > got jobs this month.
> > >
> >
> > Good point. Let's google it:
> >
> [money.cnn.com]
>
> > november/index.htm
> >
> > The 2008 tally soars after payrolls shrink by
> > 533,000 in November, the biggest one-month
> decline
> > in nearly 34 years.
>
> Another classic blunder by RV.
>
>


I'm sure he meant every year but last year.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jimmy Carter was a terrible President. But anyone
> who tries to make the case that Nixon wasn't all
> that bad or the Clinton wasn't all that good are
> arguing against history. It's pretty evident that
> Nixon will go down as one of the worst Presidents
> and that Clinton will be in the Top 3rd of
> Presidents and could possibly climb higher with
> time.
>
> As for Dubya, I still think it is too early to
> determine where history will rate him, but I don't
> think the prospects are very good, especially if
> Obama comes out looking good in the next few
> years. Bush Jr. had two wars he started and didn't
> finish and The Great Recession on his watch.
> Whatever people want to debate about torture or
> wiretaps or anything else, those facts won't
> change. Bush is LBJ and Hoover wrapped into one.


Your comparison of Clinton to Nixon is completely backwards. Clinton did far worse than Watergate, yet because he never received the same attention for his dirty deeds, we should somehow rate him differently?

Nixon was not a bad President, he simply got caught doing what amounted to a fraction of what Clinton and LBJ both did. He finally fought Vietnam the way it should have always been done, he completed desegregation, he gave affirmative action to minority students at a time when it was actually a decent idea, he opened up relations with China (At which point up to then, we had essentially been about a tick away from fighting a hot war with), and when he realized that he was too late in the game to change course in Vietnam, he finally ordered our complete withdrawal. You also should remember that he served in the USN, and was Eisenhower's VP (During which time they actually began the entire push for Civil Rights for Black Americans, and also created NASA). You should never allow for a bad judgement call or two (Which never even hurt nor killed anyone), to overshadow the immense amount of positive accomplishments which a person makes.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

Obama because his momma is white and the media tried
selling him to us as our first "black president".

INSERT PEN15 here------> o <-------

I like the half black pres because i saw him dancing with Ellen and that turned me on.

and that o is too big for me.

-------------------------> • <------------------------

how about this one?

I'll try..... but don't look.

Okay everbody, close your eyes.

Hey, no peaking through your fingers!

It's a tie between Obama and that grinning jackass Jimmy Carter.

By the way, my penis is wayyyyy too small for that hole. Do you have anything smaller for the less endowed Republican that I am. I do hope that Registered Voter and I can finally meet and he recipricates my advances.

By the way, my penis is wayyyyy too small for that hole. Do you have anything smaller for the less endowed Republican that I am. I do hope that Registered Voter and I can finally meet and he recipricates my advances.

Shouldn't you be on your knees in Dupont Circle somewhere now?

Well, they have nothing important to say, so they can only hope to derail threads with their emo fag posts. And people say I have no life for posting here? The fact that someone spends their time here doing these posts is pathetic. Life reduced to being a fag troll - wow, truly an accomplishment in life.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, they have nothing important to say, so they
> can only hope to derail threads with their emo fag
> posts. And people say I have no life for posting
> here? The fact that someone spends their time here
> doing these posts is pathetic. Life reduced to
> being a fag troll - wow, truly an accomplishment
> in life.

I think someones repitive use of a derogatory term for someone else's possible sexual orientation is clear indication of that persons lack of character. Terms like "fag"..."retard"..are not the terms of a mature over 20-something person. So... you aeither emotionally arrested in your 20s or you actually are the "fat ass" 20-something I think you are.

Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think someones repitive use of a derogatory term
> for someone else's possible sexual orientation is
> clear indication of that persons lack of
> character. Terms like "fag"..."retard"..are not
> the terms of a mature over 20-something person.
> So... you aeither emotionally arrested in your 20s
> or you actually are the "fat ass" 20-something I
> think you are.

You "think"? LOL With what, the singular brain cell bouncing around in your thimble sized skull? Please, as if you have any clue what a 20 something person might think. You have no clue Vince, as usual. Why would any 20 something anyone bother with your inane BS? Why do you feel the need to defend their behavior? Oh right, you are the one that posts topics on licking people's ass and such. Truly the postings of a rational, high minded person huh?

Go fuck yourself retard. Or better yet, get one of your emo fag defenders to join you. It doesn't take being 20 something to name you truly jackass.

You really need to see a therapist badly. I think it is high comedy that you continue to come here and try to defend your irrationality.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2009 03:57PM by Registered Voter.

Here's a question on the OP...

Is there anyone here that would argue that Washington was the worst President we had? He stood for about everything that most of the liberals here despise right? Slavery, Religion (Christianity in particular - although he was more a Deist), etc?

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jimmy Carter was definitely the WORST President of
> modern times. He did more to undermine US security
> in the world than any other.
>

I find it facinating that the wing nuts who scream loudly about accusing everyone else of not "supportying our troops" are so hard on the only President in most of our lifetime to serve durring war time.

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Jimmy Carter was definitely the WORST President
> of
> > modern times. He did more to undermine US
> security
> > in the world than any other.
> >
>
> I find it facinating that the wing nuts who scream
> loudly about accusing everyone else of not
> "supportying our troops" are so hard on the only
> President in most of our lifetime to serve durring
> war time.

Not being a wing nut, I am only responding to his serving during war time. Who cares? All that proved was that even with his qualifications he was still a peanut farmer at heart. Your point though is meaningless - his failures were in most areas having nothing to do with the military except for his stupid attempt at rescuing hostages in Iran.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

I guess I never made it out of my house today. It sucks being lonely.

Regestered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess I never made it out of my house today. It
> sucks being lonely.

Sucks to be you. You and Vince at least have something in common.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

By the way, Registered Voter and Regestered Voter are the same. I like talking to myself.

Regestered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> By the way, Registered Voter and Regestered Voter
> are the same. I like talking to myself.

Vince has these delusions of talking to himself (I am sure) - he would be much more interested in your butt faggery. I am pretty sure when he posted his ass licker thread you about creamed yourself eh? Just think, if you actually used your registered name you could trade PMs with him and setup meetings where you could deal with your "issues" together. He certainly seems like he needs some one on one attention in his life.

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

By the way, Registered Voter and Regestered Voter are the same. I am delusional.

Regestered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am delusional.

+1000

If you can’t model the past, where you know the answer pretty well, how can you model the future? - William Happer Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Princeton University

By the way, Registered Voter and Regestered Voter are the same.

I (or we) think Alias is GAY.

By the way, I am Registnerd Voter and I hope everyone, everywhere is gay. I love everything gay.

I watch West Side Story a few times a day, just to hear Maria sing... I'm so pretty and witty and...oh, god, here it comes... GAY.

That part makes my cry.. it's just so beautiful. Excuse me, I have to get a kleenex.

Registered Voter, looks like you have a fan club.