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Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
A History of Violence
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: August 19, 2009 10:45AM
Ive decided to join the cut and paste crowd...
Troubled History
08.18.09 -- 12:15PM By Josh Marshall
As we track the escalating number of incidents of right-wing fringers bringing guns to Obama events or other health create town hall events, we are, unsurprisingly, seeing various conservative websites mocking the public concern. "Oh, those Dems, they go all wobbly just because a few upstanding citizens show up with legal firearms." Call it the new girly-manism, it's a sign that Democrats are so many political panty-waists because they've never seen the gun culture up close or just get easily rattled.
It's true that there are some regional divergences at work here. Weapons just don't get carried around in public in say New Jersey or Connecticut the way they do in the South or especially the west.
But let's be honest about what this is about. The right -- the modern American right -- has a very troubled history with political violence. The ideological pattern is clear going back at least thirty years and arguably far longer. A simple review of the 1990s, particularly 1993, 1994, culminating in many respects in the tragic 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal building in April 1995 tells the tale. Mix in the militias, the thankfully inept attempt on President Clinton's life a few months before Oklahoma City (see Francisco Duran) and it's all really not a pretty picture.
One moment stands out clearly in my mind. Back in the early days of the Bush administration, Mickey Kaus had a typically contrarian post in which he suggested that with the rising tide of animosity on the left toward President Bush it was only a matter of time before we saw the outcropping of political violence on the left, to parallel what we'd seen from the right with the Clinton-hatred of the mid-1990s. (Perhaps someone can dig up the post? Late Update: Found.) It was a typically Kausian post, not only for its strained contrarianism but more for its complete failure of predictive value. And the failure of anything in parallel to arise was even more telling because antipathy toward President Bush really did become entrenched, inflamed and profound. Far more than I would have imagined at the outset.
Now, I know we'll likely get emails from right-wingers pointing out some animal rights activists who freed a bunch of gerbils, another fellow whose tires got slashed and no doubt a host of people with backwards Bs scrawled on their cheeks. But I think we all know the story here.
This isn't a matter of fear, though like all patriotic Americans we react strongly to veiled threats against our legitimately elected president. It's really more in the mode of the concern you show an old -- perhaps estranged -- friend or relative with a chronic alcohol problem or maybe one who just can't kick the crack pipe and always has it hovering in the background -- a threat to their well-being in moments of stress but also a constant temptation.
In a way you want to help. But mainly -- and at the end of the day -- you don't want to let their personal demons drag the whole family down.
Let's be honest with ourselves: the American right has a deep-seated problem with political violence. It's deep-seated; it's recurrent and it's real. And it endangers the country. It just makes sense to say something the first time they hit the sauce and not wait for things to get really out of hand.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/08/troubled_history.php
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Troubled History
08.18.09 -- 12:15PM By Josh Marshall
As we track the escalating number of incidents of right-wing fringers bringing guns to Obama events or other health create town hall events, we are, unsurprisingly, seeing various conservative websites mocking the public concern. "Oh, those Dems, they go all wobbly just because a few upstanding citizens show up with legal firearms." Call it the new girly-manism, it's a sign that Democrats are so many political panty-waists because they've never seen the gun culture up close or just get easily rattled.
It's true that there are some regional divergences at work here. Weapons just don't get carried around in public in say New Jersey or Connecticut the way they do in the South or especially the west.
But let's be honest about what this is about. The right -- the modern American right -- has a very troubled history with political violence. The ideological pattern is clear going back at least thirty years and arguably far longer. A simple review of the 1990s, particularly 1993, 1994, culminating in many respects in the tragic 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal building in April 1995 tells the tale. Mix in the militias, the thankfully inept attempt on President Clinton's life a few months before Oklahoma City (see Francisco Duran) and it's all really not a pretty picture.
One moment stands out clearly in my mind. Back in the early days of the Bush administration, Mickey Kaus had a typically contrarian post in which he suggested that with the rising tide of animosity on the left toward President Bush it was only a matter of time before we saw the outcropping of political violence on the left, to parallel what we'd seen from the right with the Clinton-hatred of the mid-1990s. (Perhaps someone can dig up the post? Late Update: Found.) It was a typically Kausian post, not only for its strained contrarianism but more for its complete failure of predictive value. And the failure of anything in parallel to arise was even more telling because antipathy toward President Bush really did become entrenched, inflamed and profound. Far more than I would have imagined at the outset.
Now, I know we'll likely get emails from right-wingers pointing out some animal rights activists who freed a bunch of gerbils, another fellow whose tires got slashed and no doubt a host of people with backwards Bs scrawled on their cheeks. But I think we all know the story here.
This isn't a matter of fear, though like all patriotic Americans we react strongly to veiled threats against our legitimately elected president. It's really more in the mode of the concern you show an old -- perhaps estranged -- friend or relative with a chronic alcohol problem or maybe one who just can't kick the crack pipe and always has it hovering in the background -- a threat to their well-being in moments of stress but also a constant temptation.
In a way you want to help. But mainly -- and at the end of the day -- you don't want to let their personal demons drag the whole family down.
Let's be honest with ourselves: the American right has a deep-seated problem with political violence. It's deep-seated; it's recurrent and it's real. And it endangers the country. It just makes sense to say something the first time they hit the sauce and not wait for things to get really out of hand.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/08/troubled_history.php
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
one sided bullshit story
()
Date: August 19, 2009 10:58AM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's be honest with ourselves: the American right
> has a deep-seated problem with political violence.
> It's deep-seated; it's recurrent and it's real.
> And it endangers the country. It just makes sense
> to say something the first time they hit the sauce
> and not wait for things to get really out of
> hand.
I see no mention of bill ayers, the weathermen, AIM, black panthers, etc.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's be honest with ourselves: the American right
> has a deep-seated problem with political violence.
> It's deep-seated; it's recurrent and it's real.
> And it endangers the country. It just makes sense
> to say something the first time they hit the sauce
> and not wait for things to get really out of
> hand.
I see no mention of bill ayers, the weathermen, AIM, black panthers, etc.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: August 19, 2009 11:06AM
I guess you had to go back 40 years for some of those. And oh by the way..how were those organizations dealt with? They were hounded by the FBI and are now extinct...maybe the same is true for Fox "news" and the other proponents of right wing violence.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2009 11:08AM by Vince(1).
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2009 11:08AM by Vince(1).
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
read your own story
()
Date: August 19, 2009 11:12AM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess you had to go back 40 years for some of
> those.
"The ideological pattern is clear going back at least thirty years and arguably far longer."
I didn't do it first. I can go more recent if you want. ALF, ELF, etc.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess you had to go back 40 years for some of
> those.
"The ideological pattern is clear going back at least thirty years and arguably far longer."
I didn't do it first. I can go more recent if you want. ALF, ELF, etc.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
Vince(1)
()
Date: August 19, 2009 11:17AM
read your own story Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I guess you had to go back 40 years for some of
> > those.
>
> "The ideological pattern is clear going back at
> least thirty years and arguably far longer."
>
> I didn't do it first. I can go more recent if you
> want. ALF, ELF, etc.
These aare trivial orgaizations..who again are being investigated by the authorities when they become violent. I hope the Fox "news" network is under a similar investigation.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I guess you had to go back 40 years for some of
> > those.
>
> "The ideological pattern is clear going back at
> least thirty years and arguably far longer."
>
> I didn't do it first. I can go more recent if you
> want. ALF, ELF, etc.
These aare trivial orgaizations..who again are being investigated by the authorities when they become violent. I hope the Fox "news" network is under a similar investigation.
Registered Voter...a Big talking coward..big man on FFXU...little man in life.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
u r a loon
()
Date: August 19, 2009 11:21AM
Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> read your own story Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I guess you had to go back 40 years for some
> of
> > > those.
> >
> > "The ideological pattern is clear going back at
> > least thirty years and arguably far longer."
> >
> > I didn't do it first. I can go more recent if
> you
> > want. ALF, ELF, etc.
>
>
> These aare trivial orgaizations..
Yes, violence is "trivial" if you are sympathetic to their ideology. You, sir, are a hypocrite.
-------------------------------------------------------
> read your own story Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince(1) Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I guess you had to go back 40 years for some
> of
> > > those.
> >
> > "The ideological pattern is clear going back at
> > least thirty years and arguably far longer."
> >
> > I didn't do it first. I can go more recent if
> you
> > want. ALF, ELF, etc.
>
>
> These aare trivial orgaizations..
Yes, violence is "trivial" if you are sympathetic to their ideology. You, sir, are a hypocrite.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
anecdotal
()
Date: August 19, 2009 11:51AM
bringing up bill ayers is like saying you believe in UFOs. batshitcrazy
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
factual
()
Date: August 19, 2009 11:56AM
anecdotal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bringing up bill ayers is like saying you believe
> in UFOs.
no it's not.
-------------------------------------------------------
> bringing up bill ayers is like saying you believe
> in UFOs.
no it's not.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
Vince (2)
()
Date: August 19, 2009 05:01PM
Unabomber is another of the lawless violent left-wing nutjobs.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
nutty buddy
()
Date: August 19, 2009 05:08PM
Von Brunn = right-wing nutella
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
Johnny Walker
()
Date: August 19, 2009 05:11PM
one sided bullshit story Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see no mention of bill ayers, the weathermen,
> AIM, black panthers, etc.
read your own story Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't do it first. I can go more recent if you
> want. ALF, ELF, etc.
I doubt any of these listed groups approve/approved of the Democrats either.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see no mention of bill ayers, the weathermen,
> AIM, black panthers, etc.
read your own story Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't do it first. I can go more recent if you
> want. ALF, ELF, etc.
I doubt any of these listed groups approve/approved of the Democrats either.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
Hankey Bannister
()
Date: August 20, 2009 02:14PM
Johnny Walker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt any of these listed groups
> approve/approved of the Democrats either.
Bobby Rush and Charles Barron are both members of the Black Panthers and elected Democrats. I'd say they approve enough of the Democrats to join their party. Mark Rudd (a well known member of the Weather Underground) gives money exclusively and frequently to Democratic candidates. Bill Ayers gave to Obama as did Naomi Jaffe. All of these people must approve somewhat of the party to give them money or actively run for office as a Democrat.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt any of these listed groups
> approve/approved of the Democrats either.
Bobby Rush and Charles Barron are both members of the Black Panthers and elected Democrats. I'd say they approve enough of the Democrats to join their party. Mark Rudd (a well known member of the Weather Underground) gives money exclusively and frequently to Democratic candidates. Bill Ayers gave to Obama as did Naomi Jaffe. All of these people must approve somewhat of the party to give them money or actively run for office as a Democrat.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
Johnny Walker
()
Date: August 20, 2009 02:29PM
Hankey Bannister Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bobby Rush and Charles Barron are both members of
> the Black Panthers and elected Democrats. I'd say
> they approve enough of the Democrats to join their
> party. Mark Rudd (a well known member of the
> Weather Underground) gives money exclusively and
> frequently to Democratic candidates. Bill Ayers
> gave to Obama as did Naomi Jaffe. All of these
> people must approve somewhat of the party to give
> them money or actively run for office as a
> Democrat.
I meant when they were members of those groups. Weather Underground is no more. People can become less extremist as they and their circumstances change. I know nothing of the Black Panthers and whether they're still an active group.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bobby Rush and Charles Barron are both members of
> the Black Panthers and elected Democrats. I'd say
> they approve enough of the Democrats to join their
> party. Mark Rudd (a well known member of the
> Weather Underground) gives money exclusively and
> frequently to Democratic candidates. Bill Ayers
> gave to Obama as did Naomi Jaffe. All of these
> people must approve somewhat of the party to give
> them money or actively run for office as a
> Democrat.
I meant when they were members of those groups. Weather Underground is no more. People can become less extremist as they and their circumstances change. I know nothing of the Black Panthers and whether they're still an active group.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
Hankey Bannister
()
Date: August 20, 2009 02:45PM
Johnny Walker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I meant when they were members of those groups.
> Weather Underground is no more. People can become
> less extremist as they and their circumstances
> change.
True, but many in the movement show no regret, remorse, or shame. At some point in their life, they thought it was OK to bomb buildings and commit murder. Today, they are active Democrats.
> I know nothing of the Black Panthers and
> whether they're still an active group.
The Black Panthers are still around. They were recently intimidating voters in Philadelphia.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I meant when they were members of those groups.
> Weather Underground is no more. People can become
> less extremist as they and their circumstances
> change.
True, but many in the movement show no regret, remorse, or shame. At some point in their life, they thought it was OK to bomb buildings and commit murder. Today, they are active Democrats.
> I know nothing of the Black Panthers and
> whether they're still an active group.
The Black Panthers are still around. They were recently intimidating voters in Philadelphia.
Re: A History of Violence
Posted by:
Bawnayyy Fwwwaannkk
()
Date: August 20, 2009 06:11PM
Citizens legally carrying guns really upset the pantywaist Jewbags over at the Democratic HQ.