Well I recently bought a new Kel Tec P11 (9mm) for $260. That is about the cheapest you can buy before you get into the junk guns. It is reliable, but its small size can take getting used to.

Stay away from Taurus and Bersa...absolute garbage.

The NRA offers beginner courses, you might start there if you have never fired before.

im looking for something probably in the $300-450 range, and yea i need to go to the NRA range, i want to know all i can about how to own and safely operate a gun before i go blowing my head off and prove vince right.

For $450, you may be able to find a Glock.

You might want to look at used. Virginia Arms in old town Manassas has a good selection of used firearms. Very helpful staff and patient with beginners too.

thanks for the advice

No problem!



I'm sure Vince will have a seizure when he sees the thread direction.

Kenny_Powers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> > As you are quick to point out when discussing
> > military issues...it is the first
> responsibility
> > of governments to protect it's citizens...not
> just
> > from foreign terrorists but dometic terrorists
> > also. And if owning a gun was an effective
> means
> > of protecting yourself I might agree...but it
> > isnt.
>
> where are you getting this info? was there a
> scientific study on the false sense of security
> that guns provide? did i miss something? how is
> this a fact and not your opinion? We have showed
> you several studies linking gun ownership to
> lower crime rates in multiple states/countries
> around the world
> >
> It provides nothing more then a false sense
> > of security. How does a gun protect a family
> > member from committing suicide?
> how do we protect against that family member
> swallowing a bottle of tylenal?
>
> >How does a gun
> > stop the accidental discharge of a fire arm?
> how do we stop someone from accidently tripping
> with a knife in their hand?
>
> > How
> > does a gun stop an abusive/depresssed husband
> from
> > killing his family? Guns encourage these
> > incidents by their proximity..their ease of
> > use..their immediacy.
>
> guns are the tool, nothing more, its how that tool
> is used or abused by people. Yes guns are probably
> one of the most dangerous inventions in human
> history, but you cant unmake the gun, it will
> never fall out of existance unless we find a new
> way to kill. If thats the case, than i would like
> to be one of the people with a gun personally.


And neither is allowing the most dangerous weapon ever invented to be distributed without control the answer. And comparing the rate of homicides by gun to aspirin...knives and whatever other example you provided is ridiculous. The rate of death by these other means would not replace the rate of deaths by guns.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2009 07:19AM by Vince(1).

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And neither is allowing the most dangerous weapon
> ever invented to be distributed without control
> the answer.

nuclear weapons are highly regulated. if you dont think they are the most dangerous weapons then answer me this: why would the world be afraid of terrorists get a hold of them while they already have full access to automatic weapons?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Swords were at one time the "most dangerous weapon." Before that, it was was spears. Before that, clubs. Someday, hopefully in my time, it will be laser beam blasters or something.

The amount of gun violence would be reduced, but would be replaced by other kinds of violence. And more gun violence, because criminals would still have access to weapons.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Swords were at one time the "most dangerous
> weapon." Before that, it was was spears. Before
> that, clubs. Someday, hopefully in my time, it
> will be laser beam blasters or something.
>
> The amount of gun violence would be reduced, but
> would be replaced by other kinds of violence. And
> more gun violence, because criminals would still
> have access to weapons.


Nonsense. All NRA propaganda. 65% of the households in America live very well and peacefully without firearms...the few nuts who feel they need them are dillusional.

Vince did it ever occur to you that part of the reason so many live well without fire arms is because of those that do have them? The rest of the world is quite aware that any average American may own and know how to use a gun. It changes the whole way the world views us. In some ways positive and in some ways negative.

Besides, how do you know who does and doesn't own a gun. I know several people who are constantly amused by the fact that those around them don't realize they own guns. Not everyone who does is the stereotypical gun-nut. Most aren't in fact.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ITRADE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Take away all ... clubs with nails in them too.
>
> Whoa whoa whoa... Let's not be rash about this.
> Clubs with nails have many peaceful applications.


How about baseball bats?

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nonsense. All NRA propaganda. 65% of the
> households in America live very well and
> peacefully without firearms...the few nuts who
> feel they need them are dillusional.

So you just refute logic and opinions and personal beliefs by saying, "you're dumb and dillusional [sic]?" And you talk about how immature we are?

You are, again, addressing the symptoms and not the problems. By your logic, even though most illegal immigrants are honest and hard-working, they should be deported along with the illegal immigrants that commit crimes.

What about illegal immigrants who commit violent crimes with guns? Do you think they would have stayed on the straight and narrow if they didn't have access to firearms?

You are making absolute statements about things that absolute statements do not apply to. Then you respond with the classic grade-school argument of "whatever, I'm right, you're wrong, nyah nyah nyah-nyah nyah!" You haven't said anything accurate or insightful enough to do anything other than make me very, very glad you aren't running the show.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

HAHAHAHA!


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ITRADE Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Take away all ... clubs with nails in them
> too.
> >
> > Whoa whoa whoa... Let's not be rash about this.
>
> > Clubs with nails have many peaceful
> applications.
>
>
> How about baseball bats?

Baseball bats are very dangerous, but if you drive a few nails through the end, it becomes a peaceful tool with many peaceful applications.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

I'm not a huge fan of guns, but I'd stand up for law-abiding American citizens being allowed to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.

However, if I had a gun and someone broke in my house, I would have no problem shooting to kill. As it stands, I have other weapons at my disposal and would use them in a heartbeat.

Mrs. K

Shadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince did it ever occur to you that part of the
> reason so many live well without fire arms is
> because of those that do have them? The rest of
> the world is quite aware that any average American
> may own and know how to use a gun. It changes the
> whole way the world views us. In some ways
> positive and in some ways negative.
>
> Besides, how do you know who does and doesn't own
> a gun. I know several people who are constantly
> amused by the fact that those around them don't
> realize they own guns. Not everyone who does is
> the stereotypical gun-nut. Most aren't in fact.


But the "average" American doesnt own a gun. So now what?

>
> What about illegal immigrants who commit violent
> crimes with guns? Do you think they would have
> stayed on the straight and narrow if they didn't
> have access to firearms?

A lower percentage probably would commit crimes. Guns are for cowards...if some "bad ass" had to go into 7-11 with a knife...I bet a lot fewer of them would have the nerve to commit the crime.
>
> You are making absolute statements about things
> that absolute statements do not apply to. Then
> you respond with the classic grade-school argument
> of "whatever, I'm right, you're wrong, nyah nyah
> nyah-nyah nyah!" You haven't said anything
> accurate or insightful enough to do anything other
> than make me very, very glad you aren't running
> the show.

Let's face it...you gun nuts are hooked on guns...it's like an addiction... you cant imagine how life could go on very well without them. So I am not surprised you see no logic in anything I say. Try talking a heroine addict off his/her addiction some day...see how far you get.

How many of you gun owners own more then one gun? And why?

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But the "average" American doesnt own a gun. So
> now what?

I'm dying to hear what you think the "average" American is.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lower percentage probably would commit crimes.
> Guns are for cowards...if some "bad ass" had to go
> into 7-11 with a knife...I bet a lot fewer of them
> would have the nerve to commit the crime.

It wouldn't chage anything except that the criminal would not have to wonder whether or not the store owner has a gun behind the counter.

> Let's face it...you gun nuts are hooked on
> guns...it's like an addiction... you cant imagine
> how life could go on very well without them. So I
> am not surprised you see no logic in anything I
> say. Try talking a heroine addict off his/her
> addiction some day...see how far you get.

Your only answer is STILL "you're wrong, I'm right."

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Vince(1) said:

"Let's face it...you gun nuts are hooked on guns...it's like an addiction... you cant imagine how life could go on very well without them. So I am not surprised you see no logic in anything I say. Try talking a heroine addict off his/her addiction some day...see how far you get."


Owning guns doesn't make you obsessive, just like owning a Mustang or 350Z doesn't automatically mean you are a racer and want to drive like Vin Diesel every time you get in the car.

Just as people collect art, cars, baseball cards, jewelry, swords, action figures, collecting guns can be just as harmless.

Not everyone buys a gun and thinks how many people they can kill with it.

Plenty of doctors and people with PHds, and soccer moms own firearms, but in Vince's two-dimensional world of stereotypes, firearm ownership is limited to "gun nuts."

Vince(1) said:

"How many of you gun owners own more then one gun? And why?"

I own five. Why? The same reason people own more than one car or TV.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A lower percentage probably would commit crimes.
>
> > Guns are for cowards...if some "bad ass" had to
> go
> > into 7-11 with a knife...I bet a lot fewer of
> them
> > would have the nerve to commit the crime.
>
> It wouldn't chage anything except that the
> criminal would not have to wonder whether or not
> the store owner has a gun behind the counter.
>
> > Let's face it...you gun nuts are hooked on
> > guns...it's like an addiction... you cant
> imagine
> > how life could go on very well without them. So
> I
> > am not surprised you see no logic in anything I
> > say. Try talking a heroine addict off his/her
> > addiction some day...see how far you get.
>
> Your only answer is STILL "you're wrong, I'm
> right."


Well..excuse me for thinking I am right. I do think Im right..am I supposed to pretend I dont to make you happy?

You're all lucky there is a 2nd Amendment..if there wasn't they'd be no good reason to allow guns...and the U.S. would be a better place.

There's a name for places where guns are collected..it's called an arsenal. And I do believe that most gun owners do own more then one. Now certainly there are collectors of antique or historical guns....but I doubt that many of the multiple guns people own are in that categoy. It's a screwy "arsenal" mentality that best describes the fire that generates the fear that generates the need for a personal arsenal of guns and ammunition. It's creepy!

Obam0w3d!


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

two..three..now go away Gratis. I really dont care if you delete every comment I make on here...or ban me for life. your limp dick threats dont scare me. Delete..ban me and all you get is a bunch of 20 year olds who can sit around in a circle jerk and feel good all day...have at it. Still it makes you what all these weird gun toating lovers are most fearful of...a shit head with wayyyy too much time to waste and the knowledge to deltet..cover up some silly comments on an even sillier comment board. Get a fucking life!

Vince(1) said:

"Well..excuse me for thinking I am right. I do think Im right..am I supposed to pretend I dont to make you happy?"


Yet again you miss the point. He was trying to tell you that you go into an argument telling everyone how wrong they are and how much better your beliefs are. It kills any type of intelligent debate.


Really, trying to reason with you is like explaining algebra to a lobotomized 5th grader.

Well...Actually..I think most debaters think they are right...and better.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really dont care if you delete every comment I
> make on here...or ban me for life.

edit by Cary: No CSS allowed to hide others comments. Full HTML is about to be disabled because of this abuse.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2009 09:33PM by Cary.

"If you know how many guns you have you do not have enough". See yourselves in the mirror?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/05/01/1240982406620.html?page=2

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I really dont care if you delete every comment
> I
> > make on here...or ban me for life.
>
> awesome.a+div {display:none} a+div {display:none}
> a+div {display:none} a+div {display:none} a+div
> {display:none} a+div {display:none} a+div
> {display:none} a+div {display:none} a+div
> {display:none}

drop dead..and you idiots worry about Obama taking your rights away...here's the judge and jury....and he sits in his Mommy's house thinking of ways to waste his time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2009 04:51PM by Vince(1).

Kenny_Powers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> im looking for something probably in the $300-450
> range, and yea i need to go to the NRA range, i
> want to know all i can about how to own and safely
> operate a gun before i go blowing my head off and
> prove vince right.


some humor..I cant beleive it~

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many of you gun owners own more then one gun?
> And why?


how many knife collectors own more than one knife? how many cars do car collectors own? they only need one knife to cut something, they only need one car to drive somewhere... its a hobby just like anything else, they collect because they take pride in it.

How many sinks do you have in your house? You only need one sink.

Screwy gun owners..defending their addiction! Junkies.

I'd rather be a gun junkie than a fucking retard.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Screwy gun owners..defending their addiction!
> Junkies.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd rather be a gun junkie than a fucking retard.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Screwy gun owners..defending their addiction!
> Junkies.


i dont own a gun... so am i a gun nut too?