I read Windows 7 is supposed to go out as soon as August. WTF did Microsoft release Vista for then? They should have kept XP around and focused on developing Windows 7. It would have probably been cheaper.



I think its time to download Ubuntu 9.

dont worry, FCPS will be spending tax money to buy new computers to run this shit.

sure it will cost out the ass but it will totally be worth it so that they can run the irreplaceable Microsoft Office. i mean, it's not like there are a thousand other office suites that are cheap or free.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Attachments:

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dont worry, FCPS will be spending tax money to buy
> new computers to run this shit.
>
> sure it will cost out the ass but it will totally
> be worth it so that they can run the irreplaceable
> Microsoft Office. i mean, it's not like there are
> a thousand other office suites that are cheap or
> free.


And many actually are better than Word, less buggy.

Vista is okay now but I still like XP better.

Vista is a resource hog and remains so, it has gotten much more stable w the patch (don't they always) but if you have XP, hold on to it and don't upgrade til Win7 is out and the bugs/kinks are worked out.

All things being equal XP runs games 20-30% than a like machine running Vista. I think Microsoft is working on changing such issues w Win7.

britdrnva Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vista is okay now but I still like XP better.
>
> Vista is a resource hog and remains so, it has
> gotten much more stable w the patch (don't they
> always) but if you have XP, hold on to it and
> don't upgrade til Win7 is out and the bugs/kinks
> are worked out.
>
> All things being equal XP runs games 20-30% than a
> like machine running Vista. I think Microsoft is
> working on changing such issues w Win7.

My Vista experience has been non-stop horrible. I bought a new Gateway last month (say what you want, my last Gateway ran flawlessly for three years), pre-installed with Vista, and I've had to do a system restore twice. I need to do a third one because Vista decided to fuck itself up, but it's so hosed that I can't even get to the recovery software.

Faster and more reliable, my left ass cheek.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> britdrnva Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vista is okay now but I still like XP better.
> >
> > Vista is a resource hog and remains so, it has
> > gotten much more stable w the patch (don't they
> > always) but if you have XP, hold on to it and
> > don't upgrade til Win7 is out and the
> bugs/kinks
> > are worked out.
> >
> > All things being equal XP runs games 20-30% than
> a
> > like machine running Vista. I think Microsoft
> is
> > working on changing such issues w Win7.
>
> My Vista experience has been non-stop horrible. I
> bought a new Gateway last month (say what you
> want, my last Gateway ran flawlessly for three
> years), pre-installed with Vista, and I've had to
> do a system restore twice. I need to do a third
> one because Vista decided to fuck itself up, but
> it's so hosed that I can't even get to the
> recovery software.
>
> Faster and more reliable, my left ass cheek.


Me too. Finally decided to "upgrade" to Vista in August when I got a new Dell XPS. Not happy when they announced in Sept or Oct that they were done with Vista and going back to Windows. Really not happy in February when my operating system just dissolved. Nothing would work and somehow all of my restore points were gone. I had to take out my hard drive back up all my files on another hard drive and then reinstall Vista and all my programs. I spent many hours on the phone before I even went about the arduous task. I was just incredulous. How could this happen? Now, I religiously back up every night.

oaktonmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > britdrnva Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Vista is okay now but I still like XP better.
> > >
> > > Vista is a resource hog and remains so, it
> has
> > > gotten much more stable w the patch (don't
> they
> > > always) but if you have XP, hold on to it and
> > > don't upgrade til Win7 is out and the
> > bugs/kinks
> > > are worked out.
> > >
> > > All things being equal XP runs games 20-30%
> than
> > a
> > > like machine running Vista. I think
> Microsoft
> > is
> > > working on changing such issues w Win7.
> >
> > My Vista experience has been non-stop horrible.
> I
> > bought a new Gateway last month (say what you
> > want, my last Gateway ran flawlessly for three
> > years), pre-installed with Vista, and I've had
> to
> > do a system restore twice. I need to do a
> third
> > one because Vista decided to fuck itself up,
> but
> > it's so hosed that I can't even get to the
> > recovery software.
> >
> > Faster and more reliable, my left ass cheek.
>
>
> Me too. Finally decided to "upgrade" to Vista in
> August when I got a new Dell XPS. Not happy when
> they announced in Sept or Oct that they were done
> with Vista and going back to Windows. Really not
> happy in February when my operating system just
> dissolved. Nothing would work and somehow all of
> my restore points were gone. I had to take out my
> hard drive back up all my files on another hard
> drive and then reinstall Vista and all my
> programs. I spent many hours on the phone before
> I even went about the arduous task. I was just
> incredulous. How could this happen? Now, I
> religiously back up every night.

I've become obsessive/compulsive about backing up now. Losing a day of work can sometimes be catastrophic for me, especially when my computer fails every three days.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've become obsessive/compulsive about backing up
> now. Losing a day of work can sometimes be
> catastrophic for me, especially when my computer
> fails every three days.

why not switch to a linux based system?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've become obsessive/compulsive about backing
> up
> > now. Losing a day of work can sometimes be
> > catastrophic for me, especially when my
> computer
> > fails every three days.
>
> why not switch to a linux based system?

Because the only things I know about Linux are that it has a penguin for a mascot, and has a version that has something about a hat in the title (I'm not even too sure about that one.)

Long story short, I rely heavily on a program that only runs in Windows, and don't want to devote weeks to learning a new operating system. I thought about getting a Mac (and hated myself for it) as I've seen this program run on one emulating Windows, but I still don't want to take the chance on any compatibility issues.

That, and I fear change.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Like I said in my OP, I'm getting Ubuntu installed. It is Linux based, and is easy to use. It is also free.

You can also order new Dells with Ubuntu. It is also pretty safe, as most malware is aimed at Windows.




Vista is quickly becoming the next Windows Millenium. Anybody remember that? Constantly crashed, games were unstable, etc....

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I rely heavily on a program that only runs in Windows

what are they called?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Long story short, I rely heavily on a program that
> only runs in Windows

You can try Ubuntu without wrecking your Windows installation, and if you use a package called WINE your program may run. Some times things run faster under WINE on Ubuntu or other Linux distro that on Windows. On my own laptop, Office 2003 runs much faster on Ubuntu/WINE than on XP.

It should be able to run your special software okay.
.
Attachments:

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MrMephisto Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I've become obsessive/compulsive about
> backing
> > up
> > > now. Losing a day of work can sometimes be
> > > catastrophic for me, especially when my
> > computer
> > > fails every three days.
> >
> > why not switch to a linux based system?
>
> Because the only things I know about Linux are
> that it has a penguin for a mascot, and has a
> version that has something about a hat in the
> title (I'm not even too sure about that one.)
>
> Long story short, I rely heavily on a program that
> only runs in Windows, and don't want to devote
> weeks to learning a new operating system. I
> thought about getting a Mac (and hated myself for
> it) as I've seen this program run on one emulating
> Windows, but I still don't want to take the chance
> on any compatibility issues.
>
> That, and I fear change.


The New macs don't really emulate windows when they run it. It's more of a bootloader, like lilo. Any hardware windows can see will run the same as on any PC.

As for software, same thing. If it can run on windows on a pc it will run on a windozed mac. I can show you sometime if you like, dude.

I find your fear moderately amusing, however, for what it's worth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2009 09:45AM by RESton Peace.

I do not believe Mr Mephisto's pro audio apps will run properly in Linux, Wine or not. I don't even think the other one Gravis was pimping will be adequate.

The pro audio software and hardware places have really tied their shit into Windows and Mac pretty heavily, and in a lot of cases driver and app support is shaky at best. I'm not defending Windows on any kind of merits here, I am just acknowledging that the market has handed the pro audio mantel to MS.

If he runs pro audio hardware, it will likely require a program called a DSP to run on top of the driver. It gives increased systematic control over detailed aspects of the card's operation, and the operation of the sound subsystem in general.

Hmm Mr Mephisto uses Fruity Loops, which is not as "pro audio" as I was talking about... the Wine support for it used to be totally awful and has improved markedly. For that specific app, Linux does look quite viable.

The software is called FruityLoops, as RESton said. The makers have been adamant from day one that it is not supported on non-Windows systems, although it may run fine; they just won't help you fix any problems with the software that possibly come up.

I also play games from time to time, if that matters.

All that aside, Vista fucking sucks. I've never had problems until Vista. Vista can suck a fuck.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Mephisto, is there any particular reason why you use Fruity Loops instead of all the other audio software?

Have you tried ProTools or Cubase?
I've used lots of audio software, but I've been using Apple Logic for a while and I really like it. It sounds better than all the other ones I've tried and is very easy to use.

Switching to Apple or Linux is not that complicated and I'm pretty sure you'd never go back to any form of MS operating systems.
My Apple runs XP Pro as good or better than my friends Dell and I can use both OS's at the same time and transfer files between them just by drag and drop.

Numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mephisto, is there any particular reason why you
> use Fruity Loops instead of all the other audio
> software?
>
> Have you tried ProTools or Cubase?
> I've used lots of audio software, but I've been
> using Apple Logic for a while and I really like
> it. It sounds better than all the other ones I've
> tried and is very easy to use.
>
> Switching to Apple or Linux is not that
> complicated and I'm pretty sure you'd never go
> back to any form of MS operating systems.
> My Apple runs XP Pro as good or better than my
> friends Dell and I can use both OS's at the same
> time and transfer files between them just by drag
> and drop.

I started out using a cracked version FruityLoops back in 2002, when I was just starting to get into writing my own music but too poor to afford anything. They're all essentially .wav sequencers; the only differences (as far I'm concerned) are the plug-ins, interface, and patch sounds. It took me a while to learn the nuances of FL (and I still don't know them all), so I imagine it will take at least equally as long to learn a new program.

I freely admit that ProTools is the best thing on the market right now, but I don't have the desire or ambition to master it the way a studio tech does. As I'm getting older and more set in my ways, I really don't feel the need to fix what I don't think is broken.

As far as switching to a Mac, I'd be all for it as long as I can find someone willing to sit down with me and show me the essentials so I can do what I want on it. I'm just not going to spend a lot of time researching it myself.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2009 12:10PM by MrMephisto.

Cubase and the others have nothing on FL in terms of ease of use for sequencing. If you want power and features, go with the big boys, but if you just want to make simple drum tracks and other sequences, I say FL is fine.

Ah. I wouldn't run any of my pro audio stuff on WINE either :) I'd either move over to Linux-based apps or stay with a Windows machine for production and stay with my Windows apps. It is true that you really want to stick with native platforms for that kind of thing.

I'm too invested in time and effort with Cakewalk to make a move. Fifteen years ago I got screwed just in changing platforms where the software was available on both (Master Tracks Pro). It's fine to make a clean break for new stuff, but keep a machine alive to run the old stuff rather than convert.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cubase and the others have nothing on FL in terms
> of ease of use for sequencing. If you want power
> and features, go with the big boys, but if you
> just want to make simple drum tracks and other
> sequences, I say FL is fine.

I use FL as the backing instrumentation for my (essentially) rock and roll project, so I don't use nearly its full potential. It can do a LOT of shit, though.

When I was recording my last band's album, I exported all the individual tracks to the engineer who imported them into ProTools. All he really had to do in ProTools was some EQ-type stuff, and it was done. However, I think that had more to do with him being a trained studio engineer and less about which program he was using; someone good at FL is going to produce something better than someone who doesn't know dick about ProTools.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Mr Mephisto,

Check out the apple store and see what a Mac can do for you. Plug it in, turn it on, and away you go. THey have people at the store that can show you how to do what you want in a very short period of time. You seem reasonably intelligent, Macs are far simplier than windows, after all, the windows platform was a rip off of a Mac.

And then you're much less likely to have to deal with viruses and all that crap, though that is starting to change.

Shadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr Mephisto,
>
> Check out the apple store and see what a Mac can
> do for you. Plug it in, turn it on, and away you
> go. THey have people at the store that can show
> you how to do what you want in a very short period
> of time. You seem reasonably intelligent, Macs
> are far simplier than windows, after all, the
> windows platform was a rip off of a Mac.
>
> And then you're much less likely to have to deal
> with viruses and all that crap, though that is
> starting to change.


Reasonably intelligent ... :)

oaktonmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reasonably intelligent ... :)

I'm impressed that he didn't give me the benefit of the doubt and just assume I was smart. You can't believe anything about anybody on the internet until you're looking them in the eye.

Truth is, I'm a goddamn evil genius, but that's neither here nor there.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

btw, i tried out FL Studio 8 with wine and it seems to work just fine.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> btw, i tried out FL Studio 8 with wine and it
> seems to work just fine.

Really? I usually use FL with rum and sometimes whiskey. Ba-dum ching!

Seriously, though, if I can get my computer running again, I'm going to try one of these ideas.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> btw, i tried out FL Studio 8 with wine and it
> seems to work just fine.


yeah, thanks for re-mentioning what I said above. This is an old problem that has been fixed in new versions.

I'm finally able to do a system restore on my faster, easier, more reliable Gateway Brand Personal Computer and that Hogshit Windows Vista that came on it.

Yeah, it turns out I was pressing the right ALT button instead of the left ALT button during start-up.

Fucking hate this computer.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fucking hate this computer.

it's doubtful that your computer has much to do with it as it's only doing as it's told. blame the OS, not the hardware.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fucking hate this computer. Windows Vista.
>
> it's doubtful that your computer has much to do
> with it as it's only doing as it's told. blame
> the OS, not the hardware.

I'm ready to try something other than Vista.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2009 10:21AM by MrMephisto.

Snow Leopard in one month.

> > MrMephisto Wrote:


> I'm ready to try something other than Vista.

http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dont worry, FCPS will be spending tax money to buy
> new computers to run this shit.
>
> sure it will cost out the ass but it will totally
> be worth it so that they can run the irreplaceable
> Microsoft Office. i mean, it's not like there are
> a thousand other office suites that are cheap or
> free.


Which aren't yet compatible with office 2007 XML formats. Switching aint happening soon.

FCPS will be staying with XP for as long as MS warrants it. Hell, there are still boxes running 2000 in elementary schools

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> FCPS will be staying with XP for as long as MS
> warrants it. Hell, there are still boxes running
> 2000 in elementary schools

Yep, my work still has Windows 2000 on some boxes, but I thought public schools were big into Apple? I know my school only used Macs...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton Lavey

oaktonmom Wrote:

> Me too. Finally decided to "upgrade" to Vista in
> August when I got a new Dell XPS. Not happy when
> they announced in Sept or Oct that they were done
> with Vista and going back to Windows. Really not
> happy in February when my operating system just
> dissolved. Nothing would work and somehow all of
> my restore points were gone. I had to take out my
> hard drive back up all my files on another hard
> drive and then reinstall Vista and all my
> programs. I spent many hours on the phone before
> I even went about the arduous task. I was just
> incredulous. How could this happen? Now, I
> religiously back up every night.

Yeah right, it just stopped working out of the blue. Couldn't have been because the husband surfs for porn everynight on questionable russian sites. Or the kids running bit torrent and putting more holes through your firewall then swiss cheese. Or you're installing some cheap pos printer with drivers from 10yrs ago.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've become obsessive/compulsive about backing
> up
> > now. Losing a day of work can sometimes be
> > catastrophic for me, especially when my
> computer
> > fails every three days.
>
> why not switch to a linux based system?

Yeah, recompiling the OS every week is MUCH better. You Eunichs users are gay.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dont worry, FCPS will be spending tax money to buy
> > new computers to run this shit.
> >
> > sure it will cost out the ass but it will totally
> > be worth it so that they can run the irreplaceable
> > Microsoft Office. i mean, it's not like there are
> > a thousand other office suites that are cheap or
> > free.
>
>
> Which aren't yet compatible with office 2007 XML
> formats.

the larger ones like open office are compatible.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

dolt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, recompiling the OS every week is MUCH
> better.

they solved that problem... over a DECADE ago.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah, recompiling the OS every week is MUCH
> > better.
>
> they solved that problem... over a DECADE ago.


Which is why they still have "how to's" on compiling the Kernel.

http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/compiling-linux-kernel-26.html

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Which is why they still have "how to's" on
> compiling the Kernel.
>
> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/compiling-linux-kern
> el-26.html

that's so you can compile the kernel if you want to. kernels come packaged as well.

Quote
Package: linux-image-2.6.29-2-amd64 (2.6.29-4)
Linux 2.6.29 image on AMD64

This package provides the binary image and pre-built loadable modules for Linux kernel 2.6.29 on all 64bit single- and multiprocessor AMD and Intel machines.

"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2009 03:49PM by Gravis.

Yeah whatever, until you need to install a new device. Incredible how Redhat can make billions on a free operating system.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> har har Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Which is why they still have "how to's" on
> > compiling the Kernel.
> >
> >
> http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/compiling-linux-kern
>
> > el-26.html
>
> that's so you can compile the kernel if you want
> to. kernels come packaged as well.
>
>
> Linux 2.6.29 image on AMD64
>
> This package provides the binary image and
> pre-built loadable modules for Linux kernel 2.6.29
> on all 64bit single- and multiprocessor AMD and
> Intel machines.
>
>

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MrMephisto Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Fucking hate this computer. Windows Vista.
> >
> > it's doubtful that your computer has much to do
> > with it as it's only doing as it's told. blame
> > the OS, not the hardware.
>
> I'm ready to try something other than Vista.


Dude, don't be an idiot. These guys pushing linux play with it all day as that's what they do for a living. Linux is not home user friendly. Most client software runs on windows and all the support and shit will be for windows. That said, I have home user friends that love their mac so if they have the software you want on mac and you don't mind spending the xtra dollars, then mac seems relatively "safe". Other then that, if Vista is sucks for you, try and revert back to XP if you can (craigslist??). I've been running XP for years with no problems.

Generally speaking, wait for version 2.x for any software if you can so they can work the bugs out of it. More so if you're just a home user.

runlikehell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Dude, don't be an idiot. These guys pushing linux
> play with it all day as that's what they do for a
> living. Linux is not home user friendly.

You obviously haven't used it lately I guess. I don't work with Linux and it has nothing to do with my job but prefer to use it at home. I'm using it right now.

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah whatever, until you need to install a new
> device.

the kernel package comes with all the modules. upon booting, it detects your hardware and loads the proper modules. also, if you plug-in a usb device it automatically detects it and takes the proper action (like mounting it if it's a storage device). it works with bluetooth that way which is more than i can say for vista because VISTA DOES NOT HAVE SUPPORT FOR BLUETOOTH! wtf is up with that?


> Incredible how Redhat can make billions
> on a free operating system.

so i guess microsoft doesnt charge a cent for support? fyi, microsoft support is more expensive and less helpful.

---

runlikehell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Linux is not home user friendly.

clearly you have not seen then gnome desktop. try out a ubuntu live cd.


> Most client software runs on windows and all the
> support and shit will be for windows.

there is plenty of software for linux that in general is better than it's window counterpart.


> I've been running XP for years with no problems.

but have you turned on your computer yet? ;)

---

you guys are just full of FUD. do you work for microsoft?



"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2009 05:46PM by Gravis.

Yeah I must work at msoft if I don't like to come to FXU for tech support. Question: if linux f's your computer to the extent you can't get online for 'tech support', what do you do?

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> har har Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah whatever, until you need to install a new
> > device.
>
> the kernel package comes with all the modules.
> upon booting, it detects your hardware and loads
> the proper modules. also, if you plug-in a usb
> device it automatically detects it and takes the
> proper action (like mounting it if it's a storage
> device). it works with bluetooth that way which
> is more than i can say for vista because VISTA
> DOES NOT HAVE SUPPORT FOR BLUETOOTH! wtf is up
> with that?
>
>
> > Incredible how Redhat can make billions
> > on a free operating system.
>
> so i guess microsoft doesnt charge a cent for
> support? fyi, microsoft support is more expensive
> and less helpful.
>
>
> runlikehell Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Linux is not home user friendly.
>
> clearly you have not seen then gnome desktop. try
> out a ubuntu live cd.
>
>
> > Most client software runs on windows and all
> the
> > support and shit will be for windows.
>
> there is plenty of software for linux that in
> general is better than it's window counterpart.
>
>
> > I've been running XP for years with no
> problems.
>
> but have you turned on your computer yet? ;)
>
>
>
>
> you guys are just full of FUD. do you work for
> microsoft?
>
>
>

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah I must work at msoft if I don't like to come
> to FXU for tech support. Question: if linux f's
> your computer to the extent you can't get online
> for 'tech support', what do you do?

Windows Vista has done that to me three times in the past two months.

I don't know if Linux is better, but I know it isn't this piece of dog shit that I'm using now.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question: if linux f's
> your computer to the extent you can't get online
> for 'tech support', what do you do?

The same thing you'd have to do with a Windows PC... get on another machine that can get online to continue troubleshooting, or blow it away and restore your stuff from backup.

I use Ubuntu on my laptop...very easy to use, you don't have to be a computer guru to use it. The GUI is very similar to XP/Vista, and is much safer than Windows for internet use.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton Lavey

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah I must work at msoft if I don't like to come
> to FXU for tech support.

no, it's more of the lies you are spreading that create Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt regarding using linux.


> Question: if linux f's
> your computer to the extent you can't get online
> for 'tech support', what do you do?

should that somehow happen, what you do depends on the extent of your knowledge of linux. if you have no idea what you are doing and are desperate just to get your system running again, just run the install disc again and install over the old installation. the nice thing about linux is that your personal settings and data are all stored on a separate partition so that you can reinstall the system without ever loosing your personalized setup. the same cannot be said for windows.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I'm pretty sure everyone knows with FUD is Gravis but thanks for taking the time to explain it. LOL

Hey go crazy with Linux Mephisto. I'm sure the Gateway techs will love to help you out when you're trying to read some excel spreadsheet from work.

This thread reminds me of how people bitch about America and then go to Mexico or the likes and see what 'bad' really means.

Let us know how you fare.

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey go crazy with Linux Mephisto. I'm sure the
> Gateway techs will love to help you out when
> you're trying to read some excel spreadsheet from
> work.

FUD

it's supported in OpenOffice, the Gnome Office Suite and other linux apps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML#Office_applications

anymore FUD that you would like me to dispel for you?


> This thread reminds me of how people bitch about
> America and then go to Mexico or the likes and see
> what 'bad' really means.

you remind me of China saying how you are "protecting" people and say how bad the outside world is when it's really all a charade.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2009 12:50AM by Gravis.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> har har Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> it's supported in OpenOffice, the Gnome Office
> Suite and other linux apps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML#Offic
> e_applications
>
> anymore FUD that you would like me to dispel for
> you?

Ever try and read an excel sheet that was saved on a different/newer version (say 2008 v/s 2003)? How does Open office handle that? Think open office excel is more compatible with ms excel then ms excel? How about all the other products in the suite. Think they're more compatible with all the nuances and/or updates?

>
> you remind me of China saying how you are
> "protecting" people and say how bad the outside
> world is when it's really all a charade.

Have you ever left the country Gravis? Been to Tijuana?

btw- I love using firefox. But there are times where I'm required to use IE to, for example, log into something at work because they figure they don't need to support every browser under the sun (e.g. Sharepoint for example). I think it sucks but switching to IE temporarily gets me what I want. Call it FUD if you want, but if people think Linux/Mac is the answer to all their computing problems (I especially love the virus and/or downtime arguments) because they're a better OS, well...har har.

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ever try and read an excel sheet that was saved on
> a different/newer version (say 2008 v/s 2003)?
> How does Open office handle that? Think open
> office excel is more compatible with ms excel then
> ms excel?

First, someone saying "OpenOffice Excel" is a complete moron.

Second, Ubuntu comes with WINE, which is a package that will let you install either the free Excel viewer published by Microsoft, or Office itself. In fact on the laptop I am on now, Office 2003 emulated on Ubuntu runs much faster than on my XP partition.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, STFU.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> First, someone saying "OpenOffice Excel" is a
> complete moron.
>
> Second, Ubuntu comes with WINE, which is a package
> that will let you install either the free Excel
> viewer published by Microsoft, or Office itself.
> In fact on the laptop I am on now, Office 2003
> emulated on Ubuntu runs much faster than on my XP
> partition.
>
> You clearly have no idea what you are talking
> about, STFU.

WINE? the windows EMULATOR? Nice. Next you'll be telling us Java is faster then c++ because it runs in a VM. Idiot

Sorry, had to come back and laugh. LMAO. Tell him to move off of windows and then run a windows emulator AND saying it's faster then windows is too rich. Yes, software emulation is always faster then hardware. LMFAO.

I was refering to the specific example asking Mephisto what he is supposed to do when he has to open an Excel file when OpenOffice's spreadsheet will not display it (I have never seen that happen but we're talking theoreticals here).

I'm sorry that Office 2003 runs faster under WINE then under XP, it's a fact on laptop.

WINE Is Not an Emulator (WINE) is just that, not an emulator. It is a re-write of the Windows API to work under Linux. It actually runs things natively, which is why Office runs faster. I used the term "running under emulation" in order to talk down to your apparent level of expertise. Your calling WINE a "software Windows emulator" shows you are a moron.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2009 10:01AM by pgens.

Too rich...LOL Do you even know it's software emulation pgen and what that means? LOL

Read the post above dumbshit, WINE isn't a Windows emulator.

Here is a link you can use to educate yourself:
http://www.winehq.org/myths



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2009 10:04AM by pgens.

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ever try and read an excel sheet that was saved on
> a different/newer version (say 2008 v/s 2003)?
> How does Open office handle that?

there is 2000, 2003, 2007. open office has no problem using any of them.


> Think open office excel is more compatible with
> ms excel then ms excel? How about all the other
> products in the suite. Think they're more
> compatible with all the nuances and/or updates?

well now you have moved on from being able to use it to being pixel perfect. Go-oo (a native and better version of open office) offers extremely high accuracy and functionality. however, if you really need perfect display, you can run the application itself, indeed using WINE.

http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=12811 http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=12812 http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=12813
does absolutely everything work using WINE? no but it does 98% of things correctly.

as for updates, ooxml is now an ISO and EMCA standard, even though the system was gamed, to get changes made, they have to go through the proper channels. they can just go along and ignore the standard but they risk getting slapped with another billion dollar fine in the EU for anti-competitive practices.



har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> btw- I love using firefox. But there are times
> where I'm required to use IE to

i know the feeling



any more FUD you would like to present?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2009 04:33PM by Gravis.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> well now you have moved on from being able to use
> it to being pixel perfect. Go-oo (a native and
> better version of open office) offers extremely
> high accuracy and functionality. however, if you
> really need perfect display, you can run the
> application itself, indeed using WINE.
>

Actually, no. I'm stating more that when you need something to work and it doesn't because you're running some bastardized emulation, that's a bitch. I don't care if it's 2% of the time or 98% of the time. If you have to read a .doc or .xls or project file or visio or some other bullshit format that someone from the office sent you created on a windows workstation and it doesn't work, you're shit out of luck.

The other thing that sucks is that there's always 95000 ways to do something on *NIX. As in your, oh if you need pixel perfect, try Go-oo or run this on WINE or recompile the kernel with the macros SUCK_IT_YOU_POS enabled and if you have an EDSI drive, you'll need to enable these five bit flags and if you want Direct-X support, go to this site and download the patches George Monroe made and oh yeah, don't forget to make sure you're environment variable CCFLAGS includes the option to disable Bluetooth support because that conflicts with NEC monitors. Yeah that's exactly what a home user wants to hear.

I'm glad *NIX is finally coming around to the typical user types after thumbing their noses at them for 30yrs but it needs to develop it's own great software and stop trying to convince people to jump over because they have a better version of windows then microsoft. I've been hearing Microsoft sucks for years. This time is no different.

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you have to read a .doc or .xls or
> project file or visio or some other bullshit
> format that someone from the office sent you
> created on a windows workstation and it doesn't
> work, you're shit out of luck.

the real question i have is why are you bringing your work home with you? however, the viewing component works flawlessly.



> The other thing that sucks is that there's always
> 95000 ways to do something on *NIX.

because there is only one way to do something on windows! oh wait, nope.


> As in your, oh if you need pixel perfect,
> try Go-oo or run this on WINE

hmm... so two options is hard to handle?


> or recompile the kernel with the
> macros SUCK_IT_YOU_POS enabled and if you have an
> EDSI drive, you'll need to enable these five bit
> flags and if you want Direct-X support, go to this
> site and download the patches George Monroe made
> and oh yeah, don't forget to make sure you're
> environment variable CCFLAGS includes the option
> to disable Bluetooth support because that
> conflicts with NEC monitors. Yeah that's exactly
> what a home user wants to hear.

as stated previously, drivers are installed automatically and kernels come prepackaged. i have no idea why you think drivers conflict, that's purely a windows phenomenon. btw, would you please explain what an EDSI drive is?


> I'm glad *NIX is finally coming around to the
> typical user types after thumbing their noses at
> them for 30yrs

interesting because Linux has only been around for 18 years and before that it was UNIX which was never intended for end users.


> but it needs to develop it's own
> great software and stop trying to convince people
> to jump over because they have a better version of
> windows then microsoft.

actually, they have developed new and different software with features, some of which microsoft copied and put products of their own. tabbed browsing only surfaced after being implemented in mozilla and firefox.

things that dont/didnt exist for windows.

• process monitoring
• packaging system
• a simple organized package based searchable software repository system
• multiple users!
• user rights
• user rights escalation
• mouseover audio and video previews
• resizable icons
• system tray notifications
• software sorted by type in the "start menu"
• truly customizable "start menu bar"(panel) much less multiple ones.
• panel embeded system monitor (cpu use/cpu temp/hdd temp/ram use/network io)
• true network drives (not just wins) (ftp,sftp,samba/wins/http/https/nfs/iscsi)
• user configurations/partitions independent of the system
• filesystem formats (ntfs is horrid, it fragments like crazy!)
• unified/universal applications
  • a superfast image viewer
  • document viewer (pdf, doc, wordperfect, etc...)
  • messenger client
  • audio/video playback app. (windows media player is lacking big time!)
  • archive (see compression) creator/editor/extractor

> I've been hearing Microsoft sucks for years.
> This time is no different.

microsoft products are nice when they work. the problem is that it's common that they fail and when they fail, they fail hard.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > The other thing that sucks is that there's
> always
> > 95000 ways to do something on *NIX.
>
> because there is only one way to do something on
> windows! oh wait, nope.

Yup, if you can't read an .xls in excel you can download mootie or pfat or reminey or pourus (not 1.0 though) or monik (upgraded from unik).



>
>
> > or recompile the kernel with the
> > macros SUCK_IT_YOU_POS enabled and if you have
> an
> > EDSI drive, you'll need to enable these five
> bit
> > flags and if you want Direct-X support, go to
> this
> > site and download the patches George Monroe
> made
> > and oh yeah, don't forget to make sure you're
> > environment variable CCFLAGS includes the
> option
> > to disable Bluetooth support because that
> > conflicts with NEC monitors. Yeah that's
> exactly
> > what a home user wants to hear.
>
> as stated previously, drivers are installed
> automatically and kernels come prepackaged. i
> have no idea why you think drivers conflict,
> that's purely a windows phenomenon. btw, would
> you please explain what an EDSI drive is?

Really, they package every single driver? That's awesome. I wonder how many of HP's products are tested on Linux?



>
> interesting because Linux has only been around for
> 18 years and before that it was UNIX which was
> never intended for end users.

You probably mean "home" users since you're an "end" user. It took 18yrs to make a push into the home. Awesome.


> actually, they have developed new and different
> software with features, some of which microsoft
> copied and put products of their own. tabbed
> browsing only surfaced after being implemented in
> mozilla and firefox.

err both Netscape and Firefox were always supported on Windows.

>
> things that dont/didnt exist for windows.
> process monitoringpackaging systema simple
> organized package based searchable software
> repository systemmultiple users!user rightsuser
> rights escalationmouseover audio and video
> previewsresizable iconssystem tray
> notificationssoftware sorted by type in the "start
> menu"truly customizable "start menu bar"(panel)
> much less multiple ones.panel embeded system
> monitor (cpu use/cpu temp/hdd temp/ram use/network
> io)true network drives (not just wins)
> (ftp,sftp,samba/wins/http/https/nfs/iscsi)user
> configurations/partitions independent of the
> systemfilesystem formats (ntfs is horrid, it
> fragments like crazy!)unified/universal
> applicationsa superfast image viewerdocument
> viewer (pdf, doc, wordperfect, etc...)messenger
> clientaudio/video playback app. (windows media
> player is lacking big time!)archive (see
> compression) creator/editor/extractor

Obviously, Windows is not your area of expertise as many of the things you've listed are present (ftp, http, process monitor, etc.) but the bigger point is: how many of those things you listed are a matter of consequence to the typical home user?


>
> microsoft products are nice when they work. the
> problem is that it's common that they fail and
> when they fail, they fail hard.

Patently FUD. btw- You think an app fails most of the time because of the OS?

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really, they package every single driver? That's
> awesome.

just about. they leave out the server exclusive and super rare drivers. the nice thing is that since it only loads the drivers it needs at boot, there is no overhead for having the extra drivers available.


> I wonder how many of HP's products are
> tested on Linux?

if you are referring to printers, most HP printers are natively supported through CUPS (part of the base install for a "desktop" system). there is also a package for utilizing the more advanced features of their printer/multi devices that is made by HP themselves.


> err both Netscape and Firefox were always
> supported on Windows.

netscape: yes.
mozilla and firefox: no.


> > > but it needs to develop it's own
> > > great software and stop trying to convince people
> > > to jump over because they have a better version of
> > > windows then microsoft.
> >
> > things that dont/didnt exist for windows.
> > [list of original ideas on linux here]
>
> Obviously, Windows is not your area of expertise
> as many of the things you've listed are present

i was pointing out that they were original ideas that others (like microsoft) added for windows. besides, what wrong with making a better version of windows?


> the bigger point is: how many of those things you
> listed are a matter of consequence to the typical
> home user?

the things a home user will notice:

• a simple organized package based searchable software repository system
• mouseover audio and video previews
• resizable icons
• system tray notifications
• software sorted by type in the "start menu"
• truly customizable "start menu bar"(panel) much less multiple ones.
• unified/universal applications
  • a superfast image viewer
  • document viewer (pdf, doc, wordperfect, etc...)
  • messenger client
  • audio/video playback app. (windows media player is lacking big time!)
  • archive (see compression) creator/editor/extractor

> > microsoft products are nice when they work. the
> > problem is that it's common that they fail and
> > when they fail, they fail hard.
>
> Patently FUD. btw- You think an app fails most of
> the time because of the OS?

i was not referring to the OS. notice how i said microsoft products? however, it's the case that vista itself is exploding for people on this thread.



"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2009 09:47PM by Gravis.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> if you are referring to printers, most HP printers
> are natively supported through CUPS (part of the
> base install for a "desktop" system). there is
> also a package for utilizing the more advanced
> features of their printer/multi devices that is
> made by HP themselves.

Funny. I just Google "hp cups". The first article was from Ubuntu bragging about it. The next several were all about people unable to get it to work, bugs, etc.

One in particular I had to laugh at as it's so typical of the OS you treasure:

********************************************

Couriousous wrote:
> ...
> Here is a patch which should allow this backend to work when a
> kernel driver use the device on an another interface. I've
> removed the interface 0 claiming since the usblp kernel driver
> does not claim it either.
>
> I will try to port this backend to cups 1.2 this weekend.

Thanks!

BTW, if you could assign the copyright to Easy Software Products
(just putting "Copyright 2006 Easy Software Products" is sufficient),
it will make it possible for us to import the backend code as-is into
CUPS...

***********************************
>
>
> > err both Netscape and Firefox were always
> > supported on Windows.
>
> netscape: yes.
> mozilla and firefox: no.

Here you go genius: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/releases/1.0.html

Windows

Double click the Firefox Setup 1.0.exe installer to start the install.

> besides, what wrong with making a better version
> of windows?

LOL.


>
> the things a home user will notice:
>
> a simple organized package based searchable
> software repository systemmouseover audio and
> video previewsresizable iconssystem tray
> notificationssoftware sorted by type in the "start
> menu"truly customizable "start menu bar"(panel)
> much less multiple ones.unified/universal
> applicationsa superfast image viewerdocument
> viewer (pdf, doc, wordperfect, etc...)messenger
> clientaudio/video playback app. (windows media
> player is lacking big time!)archive (see
> compression) creator/editor/extractor

Yep, I miss these everyday. How about you Mephisto/Oaktonmom? It's no wonder I can get anything done.


> i was not referring to the OS. notice how i said
> microsoft products? however, it's the case that
> vista itself is exploding for people on this
> thread.
>

I use Microsoft products everyday and can't remember the last time anything crashed (I use XP for client and Windows Server 2003 for, well, Servers).

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep, I miss these everyday. How about you
> Mephisto/Oaktonmom? It's no wonder I can get
> anything done.

I miss having a computer that doesn't crash every other week, requiring a full system restore. I'm also not too keen on my new computer's "Hey, you're done now" feature, where it just decides to lock up, requiring a restart.

Although, it does have neat features like "Randomly change screen resolution," "Stop running Left 4 Dead," and "Corrupt the boot record."

Windows XP worked flawlessly for me for about 4 years, but now I have a 64-bit system that came with Vista, and I've had nothing but problems with it. If Linux will work better and keep me from buying a new computer, then hell yeah, Linux.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funny. I just Google "hp cups". The first
> article was from Ubuntu bragging about it. The
> next several were all about people unable to get
> it to work, bugs, etc.
>
> One in particular I had to laugh at as it's so
> typical of the OS you treasure:

i googled the same thing and i found the email you were referring to, it's over three years old: https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/printing-driver/2006/001100.html
however, there are more recent ones that are far less radical in nature. like every piece of software, there will be people who cant seem to figure out the obvious or have completely fucked up their box ahead of time. if you do a search for hp printer setup you will find a bunch of pages just to find the drivers and after that people with problems. it's the very nature of software, it's never foolproof.


> Here you go genius: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/releases/1.0.html

mozilla and firefox didnt start at 1.0, it took years to get there. also, firefox was previously named phoenix.


> Yep, I miss these everyday. How about you
> Mephisto/Oaktonmom? It's no wonder I can get
> anything done.

no, you have several different applications to do the same things. again, you claimed the linux desktop needed to come up with their own unique ideas/software and i listed them.


> I use Microsoft products everyday and can't
> remember the last time anything crashed (I use XP
> for client and Windows Server 2003 for, well,
> Servers).

that's great but it just shows that you dont do much on your computer beyond the basics.


it seems like you are running out of FUD. please press on, i would like to dispel more.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Will Linux make my coffee in the morning, and listen to me when I am sad and lonely?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will Linux make my coffee in the morning, and
> listen to me when I am sad and lonely?

it's technically feasible.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Hooray for Linux! To hell with Microsoft!

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> har har Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yep, I miss these everyday. How about you
> > Mephisto/Oaktonmom? It's no wonder I can get
> > anything done.
>
> I miss having a computer that doesn't crash every
> other week, requiring a full system restore. I'm
> also not too keen on my new computer's "Hey,
> you're done now" feature, where it just decides to
> lock up, requiring a restart.
>
> Although, it does have neat features like
> "Randomly change screen resolution," "Stop running
> Left 4 Dead," and "Corrupt the boot record."
>
> Windows XP worked flawlessly for me for about 4
> years, but now I have a 64-bit system that came
> with Vista, and I've had nothing but problems with
> it.

Seriously, try it and report back to the group. Very interested in your results.

> If Linux will work better and keep me from
> buying a new computer, then hell yeah, Linux.

Which one will you be using? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions (a few listed below)

AbulÉdu French. Designed for data processing in educational establishments.
AGNULA Former DeMuDi for multimedia production
Baltix For Lithuanian and Latvian languages
BeatrIX A compact distribution from the Czech Republic that focuses on providing a user-friendly desktop environment.
Corel Linux Commercial. Short-lived desktop distribution, bought by Xandros Linux
Dreamlinux A Brazilian Linux distribution.
Elive A Live CD and Distribution featuring Enlightenment as the only window manager. Aims to be intuitive and easy to use.
gnuLinEx A distribution promoted by the government of Extremadura, Spain.
grml Live CD for system recovery
Kanotix An installable live CD for desktop usage using KDE, focusing on convenient scripts and GUI for ease of use.
Knoppix The first Live CD (later DVD) version of Debian GNU/Linux.
Kurumin Earlier, it was a version of the Knoppix distribution, modified with Debian and designed for Brazilian users.
LiMux An ISO 9241 industry workplace certified Linux distribution, deployed at the City of Munich, Germany.
Linspire Commercial. Desktop-oriented distribution, previously called Lindows. Focuses on a proprietary software application manager obtained via a paid (CNR) subscription. Bought by Xandros Linux.
MEPIS Focuses on ease of use.
NepaLinux A Debian and Morphix based distribution focused for desktop usage in Nepali language computing.
Parsix Optimized for desktop and laptop computers with the latest version of GNOME desktop and supports dozens of languages.
PingOO French distribution aimed at local communities, public organizations, schools, etc. It comes in three editions: PingOO Communication Server, PingOO Secure Server and PingOO File Server.
Progeny Componentized Linux Distribution from Progeny Linux Systems which was also founded by Debian founder Ian Murdock.
Rxart Desktop-oriented distribution. Focused on providing proprietary software.
sidux Multilingual desktop-oriented Live CD based on Debian unstable.
Skolelinux A distribution from Norway. It is provided as a thin client distribution for schools.
Symphony OS Includes the Mezzo desktop environment. Previous versions were based on Knoppix.
Tuquito Created in Argentina.
Ubuntu A distribution sponsored by Canonical Ltd as well as receiving major funding from South African Mark Shuttleworth. Aims to offer a complete and polished desktop on a single CD.
UserLinux Commercial distribution that would have included GNOME. Short-lived.
Xandros Open Circulation Edition Based on Xandros 3.0 Standard Edition. DVD burning is disabled and CD burning is restricted to a maximum speed of 4X.

Ubuntu Server Edition An official derivative made for use in servers. Ubuntu Server handles mails, printers, fileserver, LAMP and more.
Kubuntu An official derivative of the Ubuntu Linux distribution using the KDE environment instead of the default GNOME environment used by default in Ubuntu. It has a predictable 6 month release cycle and is part of the Ubuntu project.
Xubuntu An official derivative of the Ubuntu open source operating system, using the Xfce desktop environment. Xubuntu is intended for use on less-powerful computers or those who seek a highly efficient desktop environment on faster systems[1], and uses mostly GTK+ applications.
Edubuntu A complete Linux-based operating system targeted for primary and secondary education. It is freely available with community based support. The Edubuntu community is built on the ideas enshrined in the Edubuntu Manifesto: that software, especially for education, should be available free of charge and that software tools should be usable by people in their local language and despite any disabilities. Since version 8.04, Edubuntu has now been named Ubuntu Education Edition and has been made as an add-on for the Ubuntu operating system.[2]
Ubuntu JeOS (pronounced as "juice") Described as "an efficient variant [...] configured specifically for virtual appliances".[3]
Ubuntu Mobile An embedded operating system designed for use on mobile devices. The operating system will use Hildon from maemo as its graphical frontend.
Ubuntu Netbook Remix,[4] Released in 2008,[5] Netbook Remix is an official derivative of Ubuntu designed for netbooks using the Intel Atom processor.

Distribution Description
Asianux A distribution co-developed between Red Flag Software Co., Ltd., Miracle Linux Corp. and Haansoft, INC., focused on Chinese, Japanese and Korean supports.
CentOS Community-supported distribution that aims to be compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux without the inclusion of proprietary software.
ClarkConnect Small Business Server. File, Print, Messaging, UTM, VPN.
Scientific Linux A distribution co-developed by Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory and the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN), which aims to be compatible with and based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux.
SME Server Based on CentOS and targeting Small and Medium Enterprises.
White Box Enterprise Linux A distribution designed to be compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

Ubuntu was recommended to me earlier, so that's my first stop. I'm very interested in the results as well, and will be happy to provide an unbiased opinion.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> har har Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> i googled the same thing and i found the email you
> were referring to, it's over three years old:
> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/print
> ing-driver/2006/001100.html
> however, there are more recent ones that are far
> less radical in nature. like every piece of
> software, there will be people who cant seem to
> figure out the obvious or have completely fucked
> up their box ahead of time. if you do a search
> for hp printer setup you will find a bunch of
> pages just to find the drivers and after that
> people with problems. it's the very nature of
> software, it's never foolproof.

So switching OS is the solution? Or is this release the 'final' one that cures all?

>
>
> > Here you go genius:
> http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/releases/1.0.
> html
>
> mozilla and firefox didnt start at 1.0, it took
> years to get there. also, firefox was previously
> named phoenix.

Are you just making shit up? (psst everyone knows how to google)

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/releases/0.1.html#install
Windows: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/phoenix/releases/0.1/phoenix-0.1-win32.zip


> no, you have several different applications to do
> the same things. again, you claimed the linux
> desktop needed to come up with their own unique
> ideas/software and i listed them.

Try again. I claimed they needed to make great software in an attempt to win over users. Not create a better windows. Seriously, the msg is in this thread.

>
>
>
> that's great but it just shows that you dont do
> much on your computer beyond the basics.
>

Which is what most home users do. I have programming friends that love Mac/*nix. Great for them, they know how to recompile the kernel on a whim. My mom? Not so much.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ubuntu was recommended to me earlier, so that's my
> first stop. I'm very interested in the results as
> well, and will be happy to provide an unbiased
> opinion.


Cool, just for reference, what's your background in computers?

> but it needs to develop it's own
> great software and stop trying to convince people
> to jump over because they have a better version of
> windows then microsoft.

yeah, like a disk usage analyizer. i cant find a similar app for windows that came out before this one. the closest one i found was out a month after this app and cost $80.

btw, this app is VERY useful when you cant figure out what's taking up all the damn space on your drive.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Attachments:

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> btw, this app is VERY useful when you cant figure
> out what's taking up all the damn space on your
> drive.

Seriously, WTF does this tell me? It's got nice cool colors but honestly, is this an app that mimics what a fly sees or how light splinters through a prism?

uhm.. did you try googling "list largest files windows"? because it found this for me (int .40 seconds):

http://www.file.net/freeware/largest-files-finder.html

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ubuntu was recommended to me earlier, so that's
> my
> > first stop. I'm very interested in the results
> as
> > well, and will be happy to provide an unbiased
> > opinion.
>
>
> Cool, just for reference, what's your background
> in computers?

My academic focus in high school and first semester of college was in computers, specifically desktop troubleshooting. I joined the Air Force, where I received more training in small computer system support.

I didn't keep up with technology after I moved to my current job about three years ago, which has nothing to do with computers. I've never had any experience with Linux or Mac products.

So, I usually know enough to get by and fix my own problems.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously, WTF does this tell me?

on mouseover, it displays the filename and file size. directories are outlined and the file you are checking is outlined too (on mouseover) and color indicates filetype.


> uhm.. did you try googling "list largest files
> windows"? because it found this for me (int .40
> seconds):
>
> http://www.file.net/freeware/largest-files-finder.html

the largest file is a poor indicator of where your space is being used. i have lots of audio files that are not anywhere near the largest but together they use large chunk of my disk space. it's a very nice app... too bad it's windows imitation is $80. ;)

oh and yes, i own that album.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2009 11:11AM by Gravis.
Attachments:

.
Attachments:

lol

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
My Vista experience has been non-stop horrible. I bought a new Gateway last month (say what you want, my last Gateway ran flawlessly for three years), pre-installed with Vista, and I've had to do a system restore twice. I need to do a third one because Vista decided to fuck itself up
--------------------------------------------------------

Suppose you were sick and threw up, and someone handed you a spoon and told you that the cure for your problems was to eat everything you just threw up.

That's what reinstalling Vista is. It's eating your own vomit.

You're welcome.

Howie Feltersnatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> My Vista experience has been non-stop horrible. I
> bought a new Gateway last month (say what you
> want, my last Gateway ran flawlessly for three
> years), pre-installed with Vista, and I've had to
> do a system restore twice. I need to do a third
> one because Vista decided to fuck itself up
> --------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
> Suppose you were sick and threw up, and someone
> handed you a spoon and told you that the cure for
> your problems was to eat everything you just threw
> up.
>
> That's what reinstalling Vista is. It's eating
> your own vomit.
>
> You're welcome.

Ah, but when the only thing you have available is a spoon and your vomit, you do what you gotta.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."
Attachments:

oh, i forgot to mention a few things that came out on linux first

• offline tools to do stuff with every social/picture sharing network ever
• integration of online email (yahoo, gmail and MANY other email protocols including MS Exchange) with an email client with the capabilities of MS Outlook and much more.
• the "windows" sidebar thing with "widgets"? yeah, that's a total rip off of what linux has had for years and years.
• the image viewer with the thumbnails at the bottom
• new email monitoring. first on linux... like 15 years ago.
• remote desktops

dont worry though, im sure linux will come up with some original ideas eventually.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2009 05:14PM by Gravis.

Linux and wine are the ideal solutions for mr manifesto. He has a mega-powerful computer, which is ideal for what he is looking to do in linux.

Fun site: http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/ (it's actually a pro Linux site)

LOL

You have to be an 31!te GEEK, to grasp it ???

Ok...

So I think i'm smart.... I've been a network admin for over 14 years now...handling enterprise level windows / cisco networks, routers, firewalls, networking...etc. You name it...I've done it all...

And then comes linux...
The final frontier,...when you finally get bored with knowing everything all the time.

I download the distro, install it... immediately I have errors... (CENTOS 4.5)..
So what do I do ?..I switch into super tech mode, bust out the google, stay up till 3 am every night reading wiki after wiki, forum after forum......resolving the issues one by one. 1 week later I have a semi-stable system with "less" errors...but.... WITH NO SOUND !... and now I want to break something, because a desktop IS NOT a desktop UNLESS you can play music and video's on it !!!!

WTF !!!!!!!

so i'm thinking to myself......

If this seems a bit complicated, for me..... why in the hell would any non-technical end-user type individual ever be inclined to want to even try a linux distro once they've experienced windows ? How could these distro- developers ever expect a "non-geek", to be able to use this thing ?

Case in point....

If I want to install ...for example... Google earth... On windows, you download and open the file....click "I agree".. next, next ,next, finish....VIOLA !!!!!...you've got a working program...

On LINUX !..... let's see.... which is it... yum.... sudo... apt-get ...xxxxxx.... make , make config, make install, ... blah blah blah...... Oh and don't forget to check your video drivers...then tweak some conf files... read a few rambling wiki's and forums....and if you're lucky you have a working application before the sun comes up !

Linux SUCKS !... but I guess you get what you pay for...

"Feisty Fawn", "Hardy Heron"..LMFAO

I've been wanting to get into Linux for some time. It appeared to be a new land of opportunity and IT people need to be up on these things. Bought a new HP Pavilion laptop before that which was to be my new private computer for experimentation (as opposed to the XP one used for games at home). As with most, it is a Vista machine, but figured I could get it to be a dual-boot. Also bought two new Linux books from the bookstore. After having trouble getting Feisty Fawn to work, I loaded the most recent version (Hardy Heron) and was delighted to find that I had indeed gotten it set up to dual boot. Next would be the internet. No more insecure browsing for me!
Troubles began to pile up immediately. Linux could not find the wireless signal while Vista could. I tried everything in my books. Finally, called a friend on the horn with a freelance network admin business and had Linux. He's been using Linux since the old days when you had to compile everything to install it on linux. We went to several screens and tried to find out what was going on. In the end, he concluded there had to be a bad installation of part of the program. We were able to uninstall drivers and several other parts but then couldn't re-install the new ones. Finally, as he was busy and had spent two hours, he recommended I uninstall Linux completely and perhaps re-install it.
That has turned out to be a real fun problem. Most instructions deal with an installation with XP as the Windows portion. Also, where is the Linux partition? I installed it from Windows, as instructed, and have been unable to locate it. It certainly doesn't uninstall from Windows. Windows may think it's gone, but it's not. To sum it up, I have to uninstall stubborn software before I can even make another go at it. And as the song once said, "The Thrill is gone".

As far as using linux for everything, I'm a gamer, and use my computer for it.

I'm guessing Synaptic is sorta like autoten? Cos it had to be installed through the command line. Currently, I'm trying to get the GCC running. 3 hours later and the command line currently reads "error: cannot find install-sh or install.sh"
Apparently, I'm supposed to build the package before installing it, but why the hell do I want to do that? All I want is to be able to compile c programs. That's IT. Nothing else. Should be simple, for a language that's been around for years...

And as far as stability, I've never actually had a problem with windows on that front. I'm running the Windows 7 BETA (<- i.e. not supposed to be fully stable) and so far it's crashed once. Because of overclocking (so not its fault).
Fedora 10? It crashed when I had the absolute gall to open a text file. It's crashed about 5 times now, in 2 weeks.

And I still never got the JDK running (read up). I gave up, and took about half an hour to get it done on windows (including download).

I get it. It's open source. You're a devoted, die-hard user. You don't really care about me, and I don't blame you. And frankly, I don't really give a shit. If it can be done, I can either figure out how to do it or read something written by someone who has. Be an asshole all you want, you can't scare me away from this if it's useful or enjoyable to me.

What sucks about Linux is what I can't do, not because I don't know how to do it but because it can't be done. Case in point: this afternoon, I tried to figure out how to get my printer working in Ubuntu. My printer, unfortunately, is not supported--not just not supported in Ubuntu, but not supported in Linux, period. I went to a site devoted to Linux printing that classified my printer as a "Paperweight."

No, it isn't. It's a laser printer and copier. It's a perfectly capable printer, and I actually like it a lot. It's not a brand-new model. I believe it was designed for XP, and Vista drivers were added later. But there just aren't Linux drivers for it. None. Period.

As much as "Vista sucks," if I can't print (and I'm not buying a new printer any time soon), Linux can't replace it. Not now, and as long as this printer is working in Vista but unsupported in Linux, not ever.

Last one for the night... Maybe more tomorrow.. Thanks for the laughs..lol

*******************8888

God, I'd love to drop Windows but I can't. I can't because Linux can't make me totally happy. Why?

Drivers:
Many distro's, such as Ubunut do have good "out of the box" support but driver support still lags behind nevertheless. I do not want to spend time searching for drivers and then typing in tons of commands to get things up and running properly. Sure you can go buy specific hardware that is known to be Linux compatible but isn't that like having to live with a MAC??!??!!???!!

Packages:
Every distro has a package manager. However I cannot keep count of the number of times I have installed a package that does not work. Then when I go and search in the forums, I get answers telling me "download this" and "type these commands". Wait a minute! Shouldn't it just work without all the run around???? Does anyone realize how annoying and confusing that is for users? To them it looks like an easy way to install new software but then they get a nasty surprise. Folks the average user hates that.

Command Terminal:
Look it's 2009. The public doesn't want to type in commands. GUI's have been around for how long? It's obvious by the success of Windows that users want an easier experience. However in Linux you just can't get many things done without typing in commands. It's time consuming. Users want to use their software and do things, not spend time typing commands. Users need something easier and intuative. If you don't want to give up the need for a terminal fine but don't complain when the public still prefers Windows and it's easy gui that does nearly everything by point and click. If Windows is so bad why is it so popular? If what makes it so popular is something you do not want to offer then all the complaining and comparing is pointless. At that point you might as well just accept that you're never going to be more popular than Windows, shut your mouth, and play with your Linux quietly.

Support:
There are many forums. Some of them are good. Some of them are full of arrogant jerks that just hate Windows and turn off nearly every new Linux user they run into. Regardless, as a new Linux user you spend more time in a forum begging for help than you do actually enjoying Linux. PLUS! If you have a serious problem that keeps you from getting on the internet.....how do you get to the forums? Take a guess...using another system. Isn't it embarrassing to need to use a Windows system to go onto a forum to get Linux help? Doesn't that make a statement about Linux?

Software:
There are some great packages that shine. However the vast majority is of the same quality as shareware for Windows. I understand that it's free and I shouldn't complain but look it either fills a need or it doesn't. I'm not going to use something crappy just because it's free.

Linux fails miserably for 3D gaming. I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again. If Linux could get a standardized 3D system like DirectX and attract gamerz, it's popularity would skyrocket. There are a few 3D games out there but most of them are hacked ports to Linux that are full of bugs, not to mention that the games are old news. Even if a user is not a big gamer, they still will play a game every once in awhile, and they want something that blows their mind. Linux doesn't offer that.

Standardization:
Microsoft has Linux beat hands down in this area. There are so many Linux distros and each of them are doing their own thing. Linux software is a hodgepodge of different packages that may or may not work with your distro. Windows users hate the fact that there are a handful of Windows versions that require different drivers. Do you honestly think that they're going to like something with even more variations? There is a point when too much freedom becomes chaos. Linux is chaos.

File System and Naming:
In DOS and Windows, file extensions indicate a purpose. In Linux anything goes. People need some kind of clearly defined order to lead them in the right direction. Furthermore it saves time to immediately recognize a file for what it is or how it's used.

Also some of the names given to software and commands are well.....nuts. It's looks like someone dropped scrabble blocks on the floor and randonly selected letters to name things. Overall we come back to the chaos issue.

Excuses:
I'm pretty fed up with the excuses. I'm often told stuff like "Linux isn't meant for that" or "Linux isn't trying to be Windows". Own up to the truth. Linux has serious problems. While it may not be trying to be 100% like Windows, to the eye, it has the same general appearance and there is an OBVIOUS reason for that - users want it. So stop covering up the problems and making excuses when theings fail. Linux wants to be better than Windows. It wants to be the more popular OS. It wants to offer all the features that Windows offers.

Until linux developers and supporters stop hating Windows enough to get inside the heads of Windows users, Linux will NEVER beat Windows. Consumers use what they like. OBVIOUSLY they like Windows more, no matter what excuses are offered. Why in the world would users turn down a free OS for a commercial one unless there are big things they don't like? Stop trying to tell consumers why they should hate Windows. Instead concentrate on making Linux something that consumers really want. Not what you think they should want.

The fact is that most computer users are novices. You must cater that crowd to be successful at overtaking Windows. There is no honor in being able to use a more complex operating system. Nobody is impressed. Nobody cares. An operating system should make things easier NOT harder. If Linux devs would face the truth and cater to the needs of the public they might be more successful.

Here's the killer for Linux and if devs and hardcore fans could wipe the hatred away fromt heir eyes long enough to see it, they would. At the current rate of development, Windows is better equipped to steal ideas from Linux and put it into an easy to use package. Linux, on the other hand cannot develop quickly enough. Unless devs band together, standardize, and get serious about winning over the public, Linux may never catch up.

I know some Linux fan is going to say something about how wrong I am but that type of response is at the heart of the problem. You can't tell a consumer how they should feel or how they should perceive a product. You must adapt to the consumer. If the consumer doesn't like what you have, then YOU are wrong and you will never convince them otherwise.

l8r..

Ok really last one.. Typical response from an estoric "I hate all things Microsoft" group to the above posting

*******************************



Linux doesn't work for you because the way you're looking at it. Every single negative you listed is a rabid generalization and is a Windows user whining because something better doesn't work the way they like it to. Lol, talk about arrogance. Linux doesn't work the way your Windows does because the Windows paradigm is crap and Linux chooses a different methodology. lol, you'd have to tell Google how much Linux sucked, because they dig it alot. So do all the people searching for stuff and expecting results.

If you don't like Linux, or you're too stupid or arrogant to actually use it -- then don't. Nobody cares.

Really.

Drivers. What about them? Try geting a manufacturer sucking the tit of Microsoft to release hardware documentation then you get your drivers. How is this a fault of Linux? Developers have to reverse-engineer them. Again - you're just ignorant spouting off. All the machines I configure for Linux work just fine. Drivers included. So, that makes you basically a liar.

Software? Please. Basically your software gripe is that Linux is not a gaming platform. More arrogant demands from an ignorant wannabe. Maybe you should be proactive.

Gaming? Please. You're just whining. If you knew anything at all you'd know why Linux gaming doesn't exist. It's not even a valid point to make. Linux sucks because it's not a gaming platform? Please. I've got Nexuiz, though. You can keep using Windows because it's a gaming platform. Me, I compute and play just fine, as do all the users I support. Some children just like you - demanding little imps.

Your file extension gripe is just stupid. Obviously you're just ignorant. That's fine - until you spout off, then you're an asshole. lol.
Standardization? It exists. LSB. Learn something. Otherwise, you're right - a distro is different from another -- but they are all Linux, and Linux users appreciate the differences. We don't whine about it, we enjoy it. Only ignorant Windows users whine about it. Learn a thing befire you "hate" it.

Linux is not for you. I don't like pin-stripe suits, but you don't hear me bitching about them either - commanding manufacturers make them to my specs.

lol, talk about arrogance.

Support -- mostly it comes from ignorant people like you. It's Human nature, not the fault of Linux. When people like you learn to keep their mouths shut and their fingers away from the keyboard we'll all be better off. I support Debian and 245 people are quite happy, thank you very much. None of them get tangled up in getting support from some knucklehead 14 year old Ubuntu user, either. But you go....

Your excuses rant is just stupid. I've got nothing to say to it....lol, just stupid.

We don't hate Windows because Microsoft makes it - we don't hate it. It's just crap, that's all. It's clearly for you, though. You're so sad Linux isn't what you want it to be so you bitch about it instead of doing something about it - or, lol, actually learning something about it. We loathe typical Windows users, though. Own up -- basically, as a group, they are arrogant and pretty dumb. Tough to swallow, I know, but limitations always start with the person in whose mind there exists said limitaion. You haven't figured that out yet, though.

The rest of what you said is just more of the same. You can contact me all you like and I'll set you straight, but you'll have to get over your arrogance first. There are useability issues in Linux, but you didn't name any of them. You simply named all the reasons Windows users are stuck with their garbage and the non-reasons they don't like Linux. Nothing you wrote was valid, everything you wrote was just whining at your own limitations.

When you're older and you wonder why you keep getting passed over for promotion just remember how you like to whine instead of being proactive and how you like to make assumptions and spout the party-line and all those things. It will be easy to understand why you're still pushing a broom. WOOT!!

Oh and

Sorry, this shit is too funny.. Regarding naming conventions on Linux:

"Also some of the names given to software and commands are well.....nuts. It's looks like someone dropped scrabble blocks on the floor and randonly selected letters to name things. Overall we come back to the chaos issue. "

Fucking Hilarious...LMAO

so now instead of naming actual problems, you paste vague FUD posts from another site?

i was hoping for something a bit more creative.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I thought it was entertaining that he's afraid to type commands, yet he tries to fill this thread up with words. If he doesn't like words, why the troll posts?

Sounds like Microsoft Bob or one of those kid computers at Toys R Us may be good for this guy. He wants power but doesn't want to have to manage it. He should just install AOL on his Windows PC, take digicam pics of all his blue screens (can't screen capture them with a hung PC), print them on nice photo paper with his hand-holding HP photo printing software, and shove all the pics up his ass.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought it was entertaining that he's afraid to
> type commands, yet he tries to fill this thread up
> with words. If he doesn't like words, why the
> troll posts?
>
> Sounds like Microsoft Bob or one of those kid
> computers at Toys R Us may be good for this guy.
> He wants power but doesn't want to have to manage
> it. He should just install AOL on his Windows PC,
> take digicam pics of all his blue screens (can't
> screen capture them with a hung PC), print them on
> nice photo paper with his hand-holding HP photo
> printing software, and shove all the pics up his
> ass.

Speaking of Scrabble Blocks and naming, let's call this response YAALU (Yet Another Angry Linux User)... LOL

Mephisto, just curious, whats your ETA on Linux? Appreciate the feedback.

har har Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I thought it was entertaining that he's afraid
> to
> > type commands, yet he tries to fill this thread
> up
> > with words. If he doesn't like words, why the
> > troll posts?
> >
> > Sounds like Microsoft Bob or one of those kid
> > computers at Toys R Us may be good for this guy.
>
> > He wants power but doesn't want to have to
> manage
> > it. He should just install AOL on his Windows
> PC,
> > take digicam pics of all his blue screens
> (can't
> > screen capture them with a hung PC), print them
> on
> > nice photo paper with his hand-holding HP photo
> > printing software, and shove all the pics up
> his
> > ass.
>
> Speaking of Scrabble Blocks and naming, let's call
> this response YAALU (Yet Another Angry Linux
> User)... LOL
>
> Mephisto, just curious, whats your ETA on Linux?
> Appreciate the feedback.

I'm downloading it and installing in approximately whenever I goddamn feel like it. I've been a little busy lately.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

You mean to say you can download and install Linux whenever you want, as opposed to being told when something is "no longer supported" and you can't buy it if you wanted to?

You have... choices? What is this operating system with choices you speak of?

everyone should get CentOS rather than redhat if they are going the Linux route.