That's right, you heard it here. Big government Oklahoma Republicans are going to fine you for using the sun. Forget grazing rights. You need to pay the government for using the sun.

Solar energy has had dramatic reduction in costs. There has been an enormous adoption of solar energy in Australia. By 2020 its expected to be widely utilized by self sufficient homes in the U.S. as well.

Now the Republicans and the utility companies are starting to pay attention to these advancements and effects on their bottom line. Republicans want to tax you for using the sun.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/21/oklahoma-to-charge-customers-who-install-their-own-solar-power-panels-wind/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2014 09:13PM by Gerrymanderer2.

It's finally illegal to be stupid!

Can't make this shit up.

Blatant misinformation/propaganda by the OP.


The purpose of the legislation is to recover costs for use of the electric grid (for any grid-tied net metered power-producing technology - not just solar PV).

With current net metering rate structures, as the number of grid-tied distributed power producers increases, the costs of grid O&M/upgrade are shouldered by the decreasing number of non-producing consumers.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's right, you heard it here. Big government
> Oklahoma Republicans are going to fine you for
> using the sun. Forget grazing rights. You need
> to pay the government for using the sun.
>
> Solar energy has had dramatic reduction in costs.
> There has been an enormous adoption of solar
> energy in Australia. By 2020 its expected to be
> widely utilized by self sufficient homes in the
> U.S. as well.
>
> Now the Republicans and the utility companies are
> starting to pay attention to these advancements
> and effects on their bottom line. Republicans
> want to tax you for using the sun.
>
> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/21/oklahom
> a-to-charge-customers-who-install-their-own-solar-
> power-panels-wind/


Great link, thanks.

Bottom line? Fuck Oklahoma. Nothing EVER good happens there.
Name me ONE good thing that has EVER happened on Oklahoma.

That stupid state was founded by the worst types of poor scum
just 3 generations ago attracted by free land. And to this day
there is mostly gentically poor idiots there. FUCK OKLAHOMA!!!!

This is unprecedented Big Government intrusion. Where is Fox News and the Republican outrage?

in 43 other States & the District!

You = Fail. Again.

Why the butthurt, faggot? U mad?

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-electric-utilities-want-higher-rate-for-solar-wind-energy-producers/article/4083525

Wants to deflect soooo bad, as it stomps it's little troll feet.
Here, numbnutz - read what you post: "send their excess power back into the grid"

Newsflash, dumbfuck - who's paying for the grid?

Since the utility wants to charge the customer in this case the provider of energy to the grid for grid maintenance. Shouldn't they be charged by the customer as well for the costs of their solar equipment and maintenance?

Jewh8ter2... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wants to deflect soooo bad, as it stomps it's
> little troll feet.
> Here, numbnutz - read what you post: "send their
> excess power back into the grid"
>
> Newsflash, dumbfuck - who's paying for the grid?

If you voted for Obama you don't have to know what you're talking about.

gets schooled, flails wildly. Hilarity ensues.

Fuck! Why am I always PWND! By these republicans that love Ron Paul and despise my Jew puppet and liberal policy maker George Soros? Arrrrgh!

Already blew Gerry's illogic apart. Now comes the fun stuff.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since the utility wants to charge the customer in
> this case the provider of energy to the grid for
> grid maintenance. Shouldn't they be charged by
> the customer as well for the costs of their solar
> equipment and maintenance?


Utilities are charged by their power producing customers.

Net metering is a two-way street where electrical energy can travel from a utility-owned distribution grid to an independent producer and vice versa. Currently, however, there is no consensus on the appropriate energy:cash conversion rate because there are varying opinions on the value of distributed (solar) energy.

The threat posed to incumbent utilities' business models is real and present: the US has installed 7GW of distributed PV; analysts project the number to increase to 17GW by 2016 and 25-45GW by 2020.

Utilities in MA are pushing for a net metering cap (4%). Last month VT raised their cap from 4 to 15% and WA rejected legislation that would have mandated a fee for solar rooftop users. CA will implement a revised net metering program in 2017.

CO's largest utility, Xcel Energy, conducted a study from which they concluded the benefit of net metering was $0.046/kWh and the revenue lost was $0.104/kWh, the retail electricity rate. Others dispute the study and claim that specific benefits were undervalued or not considered.

http://votesolar.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/11M-426E_PSCo_DSG_StudyReport_052313.pdf

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/rooftop-solar-and-net-metering-win-a-big-decision-in-colorado

What an idiot. He loves getting his ass PWND.
Jew puppet Gertard.

"the bump in price was needed to recover infrastructure costs to send excess electricity safely from distributed generation back to the grid"

All power producers, regardless of size, who add power to the grid and profit from it should pay their fair share of the cost to maintain the grid.

Whew. Thread title isn't misleading at all.

0tter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whew. Thread title isn't misleading at all.

Gerry is not a bright person. He apparently thinks that everyone else is at his level and can be similarly manipulated--as he is by the Democrat Party and their talking points/propaganda. In his defense, there are stupid people on the other side who are easily influenced by specious Republican positions and initiatives.

We should be promoting the adoption of solar power by people in its early stages not fining people whom use the grid.

Stick your supposed maintenance fee's up your ass. Utilities want to keep making a profit. I don't care what state it is.

Everyone is connected to the grid. Oklahoma only has a minimal amount of solar users, a couple of hundred. Most of those are net takers of electricity from the grid and have electrical bills like everyone else.

This is all to give the utilities the power to charge customers what they please in Oklahoma that adopt solar power and begin to net meter.

You people are backwards morons and no matter much you try you can't fight progress and advancements in technology. You're just ignorant dumb ass's with corrupt leaders.

Republicans against grazing rights but damn it if you add a solar panel to your house you should be fined.

No double standards there I guess.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2014 09:54AM by Gerrymanderer2.

And its not like they've even done a study and decided what they monthly fee will be.

That in itself shows the ill intentions of this law. No protection of Oklahoma citizens using solar. People in the solar industry in Oklahoma are being affected by the uncertainty. They're going to try to keep solar priced out of the market by fining it with big government brutality.

Why does Texas stay in place?

Because Oklahoma SUCKS.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And its not like they've even done a study and
> decided what they monthly fee will be.
>
> That in itself shows the ill intentions of this
> law. No protection of Oklahoma citizens using
> solar. People in the solar industry in Oklahoma
> are being affected by the uncertainty. They're
> going to try to keep solar priced out of the
> market by fining it with big government brutality.


You really are an idiot. Not only do you misunderstand and misrepresent the issue to begin with, you double down on stupid even after being shown that you were wrong and have no clue what you're talking about.

Yeah, they're trying to keep solar out of the market... That's why the solar firms selling the installs support the proposal and why something on the order of 99% of PV solar installs in recent years is on net-metered systems. lol

You can't really be this stupid so at this point it's clear that you're just trolling.

The installers and dealers do not support the tax.
Where did you pull that nugget from?
Never mind.

Henro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The installers and dealers do not support the
> tax.
> Where did you pull that nugget from?
> Never mind.

Yeah, never mind facts when you can rely on pure Gerryshit. lol

Generally, they absolutely do. And it's not a "tax." If you partisan dumbshits actually understood what this was and how the related market works, then you'd understand why.

The largest and most significant part of the market for solar installs is not some Earth Day goober or prepper nut nailing a couple of panels to the roof of their luv shack. It's in larger commercial/multi-residential and some smaller private residential installations which are leased back with a financing model based on cost recovery including both avoided power costs and net surplus generation sold back to the utilities. Even for privately owned installs net surplus sale is a significant factor in making the numbers work. Without cost-recovery to provide a regulated utility the means to implement net metering, there's no net metering. Without net metering there's no ability to sell back power from distributed generation. Without the ability to sell back, there's much less of a basis for the financing to work to justify/afford installs. Thus, less solar installs. Thus, less solar deals, equipment, and services sold.

e.g.:

Quote

The Alliance for Solar Choice Applauds Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin and Secretary of Energy and Environment Michael Teague for Leading on Distributed Generation

April 22 2014 2:31


Related: Press Release, News

The Alliance for Solar Choice Applauds Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin and Secretary of Energy and Environment Michael Teague for Leading on Distributed Generation

SAN FRANCISCO, April 22, 2014 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin has signed an Executive Order to promote the growth of distributed solar and wind in Oklahoma. Governor Fallin issued the Order while signing Senate Bill 1456 into law. The Order states that "all executive entities shall support all forms of energy, including both traditional fossil fuels and renewable energy sources like wind and solar power, as outlined and mandated by the Oklahoma First Energy Plan. This plan promotes wind and solar power as important forms of clean energy which have a significant place in Oklahoma power generation."

The Order goes on to affirm that SB 1456 "does not mandate tariffs or other increases for distributed generation customers." Governor Fallin emphasizes that "prior to implementation of any fixed charges, this Bill allows the Commission to consider the use of all available alternatives, including other rate reforms such as increased use of time-of-use rates, minimum bills and demand charges."

"We commend Governor Fallin and Secretary of Energy and Environment Michael Teague for their strong leadership in defending Oklahomans' right to generate their own clean energy," said Bryan Miller, President of The Alliance for Solar Choice (TASC).

As part of the effort to protect customers, the Order also requires the Corporation Commission to conduct a "transparent evaluation of distributed generation" that "mandates inclusion of all stakeholders, including representatives of the solar and distributed wind industries, and utilities."

Governor Fallin and Secretary Teague's leadership demonstrates a commitment to distributed generation and energy choice for Oklahomans.

About The Alliance for Solar Choice

The Alliance for Solar Choice (TASC) advocates for maintaining successful distributed solar energy policies, such as retail net metering, throughout the United States. Retail net metering (NEM) provides fair credit to residents, businesses, churches, schools, and other public agencies when their solar systems export excess energy to the grid. The organization was formed on the belief that anyone should have the option to switch from utility power to distributed solar power, and realize the financial benefits therein. The rooftop solar market has been largely driven by Americans' desire to assert control over their electric bills, a trend that should be encouraged. TASC Member companies include SolarCity, Solar Universe, Sungevity, Sunrun, and Verengo. http://allianceforsolarchoice.com/

CONTACT: Susan Glick, 415-580-6874, press@allianceforsolarchoice.com

Once again, Oklahoma only has a couple hundred net metering users. And most of those pay electricity bills. So this is a non issue right now. Non existant. Does not effect the utility in anyway whatsoever and will not for years to come.

As far as we know Oklahoma has just given the utility free reign to charge net metering solar energy using customers whatever they please in a additional monthly fee.

The fact that there is going to be a fee is stupid on its own merits.

But the fact that this authority was govin to the utility without regulation of what the fee would be or even a disignation of what the monthly fee is shows a complete disregard for people with solar energy.

Then of course you add in the fact that the legislation was written by and out of state organization that writes all dumb Republican state lawmakers thier corporate whore fascist legislation, ALEC. An organization that is known to be chaired by and soley represents the interests of industry and corporations.

How much a month are these fucking people going to pay? Do they not have the right to know? And why would the legislature pass a fine on thier industry without clearly defining the parameters?

Big government idiotic backwards Republican tyranny in its all glory.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2014 03:02PM by Gerrymanderer2.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once again, Oklahoma only has a couple hundred net
> metering users. And most of those pay electricity
> bills. So this is a non issue right now. Non
> existant. Does not effect the utility in anyway
> whatsoever and will not for years to come.
>
> As far as we know Oklahoma has just given the
> utility free reign to charge net metering solar
> energy using customers whatever they please in a
> additional monthly fee.
>
> The fact that there is going to be a fee is stupid
> on its own merits.
>
> But the fact that this authority was govin to the
> utility without regulation of what the fee would
> be or even a disignation of what the monthly fee
> is shows a complete disregard for people with
> solar energy.
>
> Then of course you add in the fact that the
> legislation was written by and out of state
> organization that writes all dumb Republican state
> lawmakers thier corporate whore fascist
> legislation, ALEC. An organization that is known
> to be chaired by and soley represents the
> interests of industry and corporations.
>
> How much a month are these fucking people going to
> pay? Do they not have the right to know? And why
> would the legislature pass a fine on thier
> industry without clearly defining the parameters?
>
>
> Big government idiotic backwards Republican
> tyranny in its all glory.


Any such charges, if there are any, are regulated by the state PUC. The legislature doesn't specify utility rates and charges. Nor do public utilities.

Seriously, when you're in a hole, stop digging. You're just making yourself look even more stupid at this point.

They going to charge them five dollars a month for grid maintenance fuck face? That what they're going to do? Because that's more than their fair share. Or are they going to try to price the industry out of being cost effective?

We'll see won't we?

Something tells me that the utility and ALEC didn't go through all of this to get 5 dollars a month from a couple hundred net metered customers.

Something tells me there's a more insidious agenda here.

Whoever sets the rates should have set them so the public would have known what fines were being placed upon them before the law was passed.

How come no one in Oklahoma can't give us at least a roundabout answer of what these fines will be? How can you pass a bill fining people without knowing what those fines will be?

I know I'd want the PUC or whatever to make that calculation before I voted on the bill. I would think the citizens of the state deserve to know what liabilities they will have in accordance with the law.

Right now they're in limbo. Some PUC fucking Oklahoma corrupt rightards are going to decide you say. Seeing how the process has been thus far in Oklahoma, I don't think the end result is going to be very reasonable.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something tells me that the utility and ALEC
> didn't go through all of this to get 5 dollars a
> month from a couple hundred net metered customers.
>
>
> Something tells me there's a more insidious agenda
> here.
>
> Whoever sets the rates should have set them so the
> public would have known what fines were being
> placed upon them before the law was passed.
>
> How come no one in Oklahoma can't give us at least
> a roundabout answer of what these fines will be?
> How can you pass a bill fining people without
> knowing what those fines will be?
>
> I know I'd want the PUC or whatever to make that
> calculation before I voted on the bill. I would
> think the citizens of the state deserve to know
> what liabilities they will have in accordance with
> the law.
>
> Right now they're in limbo. Some PUC fucking
> Oklahoma corrupt rightards are going to decide you
> say. Seeing how the process has been thus far in
> Oklahoma, I don't think the end result is going to
> be very reasonable.


You really are an idiot. lmao

Can you ever have any sort of reasonably objective fact-based discussion without failing to the mindless Republican spittle rants? You might give it a try sometimes. Maybe you wouldn't end up looking stupid so often.

You didn't understand what you'd posted beyond thinking that it played to whatever stupid partisan troll attempt. You failed. Get over it.

Yeah, you're an idiot amongst idiots. Checkmate.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, you're an idiot amongst idiots. Checkmate.


Dance little clown.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They going to charge them five dollars a month for
> grid maintenance fuck face? That what they're
> going to do? Because that's more than their fair
> share. Or are they going to try to price the
> industry out of being cost effective?
>
> We'll see won't we?


It's already that way in Arizona.

Plus the users get to sell their excess power back to the utility companies at "retail" not wholesale prices.

Meaning in the long run they'll make money off the deal.

That's Arizona, and the rates were debated and decided upon before authority was given for their implementation by the utilities.

This is the other way around. The FUC or PUC has to decide what these fee's will be. We'll see what these bastards are up to soon enough.

"The Tea Party fights back for solar."

"Monopoly utilities want to extinguish the independent rooftop solar market in America to protect their socialist control of how we get our electricity,” blasts the website of Tell Utilities Solar Won’t Be Killed, known as TUSK for short. That’s not the type of rhetoric you expect conservatives to fire at the power industry. Then again, this isn’t your typical renewable energy advocacy group. While it works closely with some of the nation’s largest solar panel providers, TUSK is publicly led by Barry Goldwater Jr., the former Republican California congressman and the son of the GOP icon. "

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/04/oklahoma_sb_1456_why_the_tea_party_is_fighting_for_solar_power.html?wpisrc=burger_bar


When you have your own base calling out your corporate whore leaders for their conspiring against solar energy and Republican overall support for solar energy sits at 72 percent, good fucking luck is all I gotta say.

The Tea Party is correct on this except for the fact that monopolies working in concert with the state to keep the dependency for energy people have exclusively from them to whatever extent possible is not socialism, that's fascism. Big government Republican fascism.

If anything people having solar power and collectively supporting each others energy needs during peak hours and such is more of a social concept.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2014 08:11PM by Gerrymanderer2.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's Arizona, and the rates were debated and
> decided upon before authority was given for their
> implementation by the utilities.
>
> This is the other way around. The FUC or PUC has
> to decide what these fee's will be. We'll see
> what these bastards are up to soon enough.





LoLz!

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-koch-brothers-and-solar-power-20140422,0,1087398.story#axzz2zha0H49l

Koch brothers and big utilities campaign to unplug solar power



The Koch brothers have a new ploy to protect the traditional energy business that helped make them the planet’s fifth- and sixth-richest humans. They are funding a campaign to shackle solar energy consumers who have escaped the grip of big electric utilities.

Of all the pro-business, anti-government causes they have funded with their billions, this may be the most cynical and self-serving. On Sunday, a Los Angeles Times story by Evan Halper outlined the Koch’s latest scheme. Along with anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist, several major power companies and a national association representing conservative state legislators, the brothers are aiming to kill preferences for the burgeoning solar power industry that have been put into law in dozens of states. Kansas, North Carolina and Arizona are their first targets, with more to come.

They already have their first victory. On Monday, Oklahoma’s Republican Gov. Mary Fallin signed a bill passed by the GOP-controlled Legislature that authorizes electric utilities to tack a surcharge on the bills of private citizens who have installed solar panels or wind turbines on their homes. That’s right, Oklahomans who have spent money to generate their own clean and green power now must pay compensation to the power companies.

This sounds a bit like government trampling on the independence of the citizenry. You’d think the tea party would be protesting and militia groups would be riding in with guns drawn. But since it is Republicans and big business doing the trampling, there is, as yet, no outcry from the libertarian crowd.

So, what is driving this crusade against clean energy? As Halper reports, “At the nub of the dispute are two policies found in dozens of states. One requires utilities to get a certain share of power from renewable sources. The other, known as net metering, guarantees homeowners or businesses with solar panels on their roofs the right to sell any excess electricity back into the power grid at attractive rates.”

These laws have helped the solar industry reach a tipping point where the business model is finally viable. In a world where too much CO2 from coal, gas and oil is being pumped into the atmosphere, that seems like a good thing, but the Kochs and the utilities claim solar’s success is a threat to the future of the power grid. If there are more and more households freeing themselves from total reliance on traditional power sources, there will be less money available to maintain the electricity delivery infrastructure.

They may have a valid point, but the problem could be addressed with modest adjustments to the system. That they have opted for an all-out war against key laws that promote alternative energy suggests the real motivation may be more crass: protecting the profits of the entrenched fossil fuels-based energy industry.

Environmentalists have been energized to stand in the way of this well-funded multi-state onslaught against solar power, and it is gratifying to hear there is one conservative with a venerable Republican lineage who is taking their side. Former California congressman Barry Goldwater Jr. has formed a group, awkwardly named Tell Utilities Solar won’t be Killed, that hopes to gather support among conservatives to oppose the big utilities.

“These solar companies are becoming popular, and utilities don’t like competition,” Goldwater told The Times. “I believe people ought to have a choice.”

Consumer choice. Business competition. Autonomy for individual Americans. Those certainly seem like sound conservative principles. You would think that is something the Koch brothers could appreciate, but, obviously, their brand of conservatism is defined less by principles than by profits.

VvJGM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-n
> a-tt-koch-brothers-and-solar-power-20140422,0,1087
> 398.story#axzz2zha0H49l
>
> Koch brothers and big utilities campaign to unplug
> solar power
>
> blah blah blah more bullshit.

Written by David Horseshit. He didn't even get the circumstances of how this was signed right.

You Koch suckers crack me up. It's like the fucking boogie man hiding everywhere. You'll buy into any bullshit as long as somebody tags it somehow regardless how tangentially to the Koch Brothers. lmao

the winds of money are fickle

but the winds of time are hungrier than a black hole eating a galaxy

Solution. Just disconnect from the grid and everyone will be happy! Too bad you won't have electricity for about 18 hours a day.