Swiss to vote on incomes for all - working or not

Switzerland, one of the world's wealthiest countries, is engaged in an intense process of soul searching - about money.

This year alone there have been two nationwide referendums on executive pay, one of which approved strict limits on bonuses and banned golden handshakes.

Now two more votes are on the way, the first on the introduction of a minimum wage, and the second, and most controversial, on a guaranteed basic income for all legal residents, whether they work or not.

A universal basic income sounds very radical, but it is not a new idea - Thomas More proposed it in his work Utopia in the 16th Century.



A. notice the idea came from a book called "utopia" and
B. notice in the article one of the campaigners for it is names Che, figures

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25415501

Book title is irrelevant as is the name is the campaigners name.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
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> Book title is irrelevant as is the name is the
> campaigners name.


As are your posts.

I know your pissed that isnt getting more support

Liberal Logic 35 Wrote:
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> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Book title is irrelevant as is the name is the
> > campaigners name.
>
>
> As are your posts.
>
> I know your pissed that isnt getting more support


Maybe we can get Change.org to start a petition and get this in motion.

How about posting on a topic and following it with and intelligent comment?

Butthurt much?
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ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
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> How about posting on a topic and following it with
> and intelligent comment?


Weve all been waiting for you to do that for months. Instead you constantly change the subject when you get caught in your own lies and pick out the most meaningless things to focus on.

By the way the title of something where an idea came from and whose supporting it is in fact relevant.

Back to your childish drivel.

No, the book is irrelevant and a campaigners name is irrelevant. How about discussing the details of the bill although that would be difficult for you because all you're driven by is your addiction to bitching and name calling all who disagree with you.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
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> Back to your childish drivel.
>
> No, the book is irrelevant and a campaigners name
> is irrelevant. How about discussing the details
> of the bill although that would be difficult for
> you because all you're driven by is your addiction
> to bitching and name calling all who disagree with
> you.


Please do I would love to hear your defense of that garbage bill.

Youre the one who decided to focus on the other part, but facts have never stopped you from making stuff up before so no ones surprised

Now I know where gerry is moving to. I would imagine this won't hurt the Swiss too much as they have strict immigration policies unlike here where anyone can sneak in and start collecting welfare and food stamps.

Seeing as you've mentioned nothing about its potential social or economic impact tells me you were never interested in the crux of the bill, just bitching about it. It's also hilarious to be accused of fabricating facts by someone who's sole argument for everything is a conspiracy theory.

Free Stuff for freeloaders Wrote:
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> Now I know where gerry is moving to. I would
> imagine this won't hurt the Swiss too much as they
> have strict immigration policies unlike here where
> anyone can sneak in and start collecting welfare
> and food stamps.

No, the Swiss frown upon bigots and anti-semites so Gerry wouldn't be welcome.

The U S is way ahead of the Swiss. We already give the following free stuff:

Housing
Medical and dental
Food
Cell phones
Internet access
Gym memberships
School breakfast and lunch (some localities also give a dinner)
Free college
Welfare checks

That pretty much covers all your needs. You do not even need to live here legally to collect.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
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> Seeing as you've mentioned nothing about its
> potential social or economic impact tells me you
> were never interested in the crux of the bill,
> just bitching about it. It's also hilarious to be
> accused of fabricating facts by someone who's sole
> argument for everything is a conspiracy theory.


More blah blah blah.

Theres nothing to discuss its a god awful bill based on the faulty premise that money grows on trees. It doesnt even have much support and isnt going to pass.

Of course you would rather keep focusing on bullshit as always.

Your bullshit bores me.

Liberal Logic 35 Wrote:
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> Theres nothing to discuss its a god awful bill
> based on the faulty premise that money grows on
> trees.

You mean it doesnt???

Liberal Logic 35 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Seeing as you've mentioned nothing about its
> > potential social or economic impact tells me
> you
> > were never interested in the crux of the bill,
> > just bitching about it. It's also hilarious to
> be
> > accused of fabricating facts by someone who's
> sole
> > argument for everything is a conspiracy theory.
>
>
> More blah blah blah.
>
> Theres nothing to discuss its a god awful bill
> based on the faulty premise that money grows on
> trees. It doesnt even have much support and isnt
> going to pass.
>
> Of course you would rather keep focusing on
> bullshit as always.
>
> Your bullshit bores me.

Not surprised you consider information bullshit. You're another whining basement dweller venting his anger on anything and everything. You're pathetic and a poster boy for American pride of ignorance.

Che Wagner is one of the campaigners, he is 25, studying for a master's degree at Zurich university, and working for a pizza delivery company.

"I have a daughter," he says, "and so of course I am there for my daughter, I look after her."

"But it is also a struggle - I have to work, so we can live.

"I think with a basic income I would still have to work, but I could… maybe [also] say, 'OK let's spend a week with my daughter.'"



Oh boy....someone chose to have a child while in college and now has to raise the mistake on a pizza boy salary. Now he's using his daughter as a way to get more money in his pockets.

Yeah, being able to provide for yourself and your daughter, the cheek.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
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> Yeah, being able to provide for yourself and your
> daughter, the cheek.




wut

eesh Wrote:
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> Che Wagner is one of the campaigners, he is 25,
> studying for a master's degree at Zurich
> university, and working for a pizza delivery
> company.
>
> "I have a daughter," he says, "and so of course I
> am there for my daughter, I look after her."
>
> "But it is also a struggle - I have to work, so we
> can live.
>
> "I think with a basic income I would still have to
> work, but I could… maybe [also] say, 'OK let's
> spend a week with my daughter.'"
>
>
>
> Oh boy....someone chose to have a child while in
> college and now has to raise the mistake on a
> pizza boy salary. Now he's using his daughter as a
> way to get more money in his pockets.


Named Che no less. lmao

Lib-fags LOL! Wrote:
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> eesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Che Wagner is one of the campaigners, he is
> 25,
> > studying for a master's degree at Zurich
> > university, and working for a pizza delivery
> > company.
> >
> > "I have a daughter," he says, "and so of course
> I
> > am there for my daughter, I look after her."
> >
> > "But it is also a struggle - I have to work, so
> we
> > can live.
> >
> > "I think with a basic income I would still have
> to
> > work, but I could… maybe [also] say, 'OK
> let's
> > spend a week with my daughter.'"
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh boy....someone chose to have a child while
> in
> > college and now has to raise the mistake on a
> > pizza boy salary. Now he's using his daughter as
> a
> > way to get more money in his pockets.
>
>
> Named Che no less. lmao

Who apparently cant figure out he should put that Masters Degree on hold and use his college degree to get a better job.

The problem with Che's logic is that there is no guarantee the income will be used responsibly. If he wanted to vote for more child care or other benefits, okay.....but he could just use this basic income to buy a PS4 or go clubbing.

He isn't struggling like an American counterpart would....he's living in Switzerland, so he already has free university attendance, free health care, and guaranteed pension.

eesh Wrote:
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> The problem with Che's logic is that there is no
> guarantee the income will be used responsibly. If
> he wanted to vote for more child care or other
> benefits, okay.....but he could just use this
> basic income to buy a PS4 or go clubbing.
>
> He isn't struggling like an American counterpart
> would....he's living in Switzerland, so he already
> has free university attendance, free health care,
> and guaranteed pension.


The problem with that rationale is you're assuming people individuals can't make responsible decisions for themselves. On previous posts you make every excuse as to why struggling Americans shouldn't have rooves over their heads and food in their stomachs and now you're making excuses as to why an economically savvy nation of responsible people don't have the right to decide the manner in which their taxes are spent. I'd rather have my taxes spent on universal healthcare or education than on corporate tax breaks and a bloated defence budget.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
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> The problem with that rationale is you're assuming
> people individuals can't make responsible
> decisions for themselves. On previous posts you
> make every excuse as to why struggling Americans
> shouldn't have rooves over their heads and food in
> their stomachs and now you're making excuses as to
> why an economically savvy nation of responsible
> people don't have the right to decide the manner
> in which their taxes are spent. I'd rather have
> my taxes spent on universal healthcare or
> education than on corporate tax breaks and a
> bloated defence budget.

Youll be happy to know then that your taxes arent spent on tax breaks for others since thats not an expense.

Then again since you cant figure that out something tells me "your taxes" are probably only the sales kind.

We've been over this, any tax breaks are taxes not collected and are therefore money spent, even more so when a corporation is not only not taxed but also given money because they're adept at maneuvering the tax code.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
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> We've been over this, any tax breaks are taxes not
> collected and are therefore money spent, even more
> so when a corporation is not only not taxed but
> also given money because they're adept at
> maneuvering the tax code.


Youre right we have been over this and despite being explained to you over and over again you come back with the same bullshit

No tax breaks arent money spent, its money they never had to begin with. Its not your money or the governments money to start with.

Only liberal pretzel logic can conclude not collecting something is money spent.

But since you feel that way every penny you make should immediately be handed over to the government so they arent "spending" what you keep.

It's fact. Your simplistic view of the tax system is typical of the right.

I take it when your employer doesn't pay you the money you've worked for you can't claim theft because you can't have someyhing you never had stolen?

Both of you are a match made in heaven. I love it, you can keep each other company and spare the rest of us.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
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> It's fact. Your simplistic view of the tax system
> is typical of the right.
>
> I take it when your employer doesn't pay you the
> money you've worked for you can't claim theft
> because you can't have someyhing you never had
> stolen?


Failed analogy.

The money is not owed to begin with. It is, and very specifically so, excluded from that which is owed.

Try again?

Taxes, they're owed, they're part of the system. What fucking world do you live in?

On another note, if you're going to rant about the evils of the state and how it should be abolished while championing the rich the least you could do was own your anarcho-capitalist tendency.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
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> I take it when your employer doesn't pay you the
> money you've worked for you can't claim theft
> because you can't have someyhing you never had
> stolen?

Salary is your money that is owed to you by a contract.

Your money is not the governments. They arent doing you a favor letting you keep it.

Tax breaks are part of the tax code meaning the money is rightfully the persons not the government.

Its really a rather simple concept that your extremism is struggling with.

All youre doing is exposing what a lefty wackjob you are that you dont believe in private ownership of anything and think everything is the governments unless they let you have it.

You would likely be much happier in North Korea with these beliefs.

I love it, keep it going.
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Taxes are contract. When you sign all of that paperwork during the hiring process that is binding contracts, so to speak.

Tax breaks are not part of the tax code, tax breaks are awarded for various things, some being the equivalency of a bribe in order to sway corporate decisions.

I don't think anything is the governments however the government has a purpose and we elect our representation, for better or worse.

I'm not sure about the relevancy of your North Korea remark. North Korea is a dictatorship, not unlike Stalinist Russia. There's nothing I favour in either system.

ColumnNo.4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxes are contract. When you sign all of that
> paperwork during the hiring process that is
> binding contracts, so to speak.
>
> Tax breaks are not part of the tax code, tax
> breaks are awarded for various things, some being
> the equivalency of a bribe in order to sway
> corporate decisions.

All you did was just prove youve never actually paid taxes in your life. Tax write-offs are part of the tax code and the government is free to lower the rate for whoever they want.

> I don't think anything is the governments however
> the government has a purpose and we elect our
> representation, for better or worse.
>
> I'm not sure about the relevancy of your North
> Korea remark. North Korea is a dictatorship, not
> unlike Stalinist Russia. There's nothing I favour
> in either system.

You would love it there. Government controls everything, no private business, no personal wealth, everything youre allowed to have is provided by the government. Its what your dream country looks like from your comments here.

I'm not referring to write offs. And North Korea is is a dictatorship, every is to provide for Un.