I had been thinking about the wisdom of Florida since I learned it is the principal ingredient in Prozac. Why the push to have it in the water supply? If you think it's good for teath it's in almost all toothpaste. Here's a article that questions the health benifits:


What do you get when you take a toxic chemical byproduct of the fertilizer processing industry and dump it into the public water supply? Fluoridation!



The fluoridation of public water supplies is one of the most fraudulent public health policies ever dreamed up by the chemical companies, and decades after the scam was first engineered as a way to get rid of toxic waste without paying expensive hazardous materials fees, many cities are finally starting to question the sanity of it.



Dumping so-called "fluoride" chemicals into the public water supply makes about as much sense as dripping rocket fuel chemicals into the nation's milk supply. (Don't laugh. Perchlorate chemicals are already in virtually all milk products sold in the U.S.)



Today's feature story reveals why more cities and towns are starting to question water fluoridation policies: http://www.naturalnews.com/024758.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2008 02:55PM by Rod.

Obviously you have no family or acquaintances from towns that have not fluoridated their water. I can assure you, there is a significant difference. How is it toxic? NoVA has had fluoridated water going back decades and I have never seen nor heard any claim that there has been an increase in fatality rates here due to fluoride in the water.

Link some credible health studies on it and I'll be happy to read them. The only links on the topic I can find are from conspiracy sites and amateur wacko pages that have lots of blinking images on them.

The March 2006 National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council identifies fluoride as a potential hormone disruptor that may effect normal thyroid function.

The NAS/NRC report also cites concern about the potential of fluoride to lower IQ and notes that the "constistency or results appears significant enough to warrant additional research on the effects of fluoride on intelligence."

That finding was echoed by the prestigious, peer reviewed journal The Lancet, which identifies fluoridated water as as a "emerging" neurotoxin.

A 2006 peer reviewed study at Harvard strongly supported concerns that fluoridated water is linked to osteosarcoma, a often fatal form of bone cancer in boys. The Harvard study found a five fold increase in bone cancer among teenage boys who drank fluoridated water during ages six through eight, compared to those drinking non fluoridated water.

Rod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had been thinking about the wisdom of Florida
> since I learned it is the principal ingredient in
> Prozac. Why the push to have it in the water
> supply?

It's a Communist conspiracy!!!!

I like the that fact that most Fairfax residents have all their teeth.

While I believe ROD comes off sounding like a crazy conspiracy theorist, he is not 100% wrong,

Fluoridated water is not a bad thing when added in the correct dilution. However the dilution levels ( ppm or parts per million) that are considered safe vary from agency to agency . Currently Fairfax county has theirs set just below th safe maximum PPM , and Prince William has theirs set at half of the recommended PPM.

Some of the side affects are calcified teeth, or fluoridation overdose. It causes those white streaks on the teeth. It is also believed but not independently proven that it may cause other issues with the brain, especially with infants.

While the PPM may be low enough, just remember " dilution is not the solution" Just because you dilute something does not mean the chemical is not there anymore.

I don't dispute that something like that is scientifically possible... my point is that if you take NoVA, which has had fluoridated water for decades, as a case study then you would expect to find copious evidence of bad side effects. Where are all the rooms full of infants with brain damage?

Again, not trying to knock it, just trying to have those who think this is an issue come up with case studies from our area where these issues would have easily arisen and be observable.

Lurker's point, though possibly made in jest, is spot-on. I wasn't joking when I said those objecting to fluoridated water didn't come from areas where water isn't fluoridated. I grew up here and have had zero cavities. Zero. Same with all my siblings. My peers in college (in VA) looked at me funny whenever that topic came up, as they came from non-NoVA areas where fluoridated water isn't in place and they regularly had five or more. The richest guy in a relative's small town in VA is the dentist. By the arguments here, the richest people on NoVA should conversely be prenatal brain damage specialists.

Lurker.. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the that fact that most Fairfax residents
> have all their teeth.

They may have all thier teeth but if I what I read regarding it's influence on the mind is correct there may be side effects which would be difficult to address. There are apparently peer reviewed studies which suggest some side effects which people are just not going to be open to accepting. There seems to be a lobby which tries to promote certian items like fluoride and milk.
In Canada where there is state health insurance there is a effort to curtail the use of milk. There is just no incentive to investigate fluoride but the opposite.

This is true of anything in America. It's always a fight to bring the truth to light and it is resisted by the industry that makes a profit. Like lemmings everyone will go along until it's thir child or a relitive. A good example is the mercury in the shots causing problems with Autism. Then people became aware and are willing to inquire.

The effects of Fluoride on the brain are not exactly manifest by clinically diagnosable symptoms. It is like mercury and lead, and other heavy metals. They don't cause distinct, instant onset neurological problems that are easily detectable.

Basically, it dulls cognitive ability without causing other outward symptoms.

The Germans fluoridated the water in Poland almost immediately after invading. I'm pretty sure it wasn't about reducing cavities.

I grew up in Hawaii in the 1970's, without fluoridated water, and never had a cavity until I moved to NOVA in 1980. 2 years later, I had my first cavity.

There have been studies of neighboring towns, one with fluoridated water, the other without, have shown the same rates of caries in children.

The studies showing fluoride reduces caries were correlative, not causative. Improved dental hygiene was coinciding with the introduction of fluoridated water.

Also, the stated purpose of fluoridating water was to reduce dental caries in children. Fluoridating the water of the entire population to reduce cavities in children seems like an odd method of medicating a target population by medicating the entire population.

Also, as far as the safe PPM levels. It doesn't matter because there is no control over dosage. If you consume 10 glasses of water a day, you are ingesting more than the safe amount. If you eat condensed soups like Campbell's soup, which is made with fluoridated muni water, then when they boil off the water and can the soup, there are higher concentrations of fluoride in your soup, and then you add more fluoridated water to prepare the soup. Everything prepared with water, either prepackaged foods or what you make in your home, is going to have unkown concentrations of fluoride.

Fluoride also has been found to calcify the pineal gland.


http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/brain/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2008 10:34PM by Bob.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The effects of Fluoride on the brain are not
> exactly manifest by clinically diagnosable
> symptoms. It is like mercury and lead, and other
> heavy metals. They don't cause distinct, instant
> onset neurological problems that are easily
> detectable.
>
> Basically, it dulls cognitive ability without
> causing other outward symptoms.

But again, by this argument and using NoVA as an example, which has had fluoridated water for DECADES, you would expect those growing up here to have, say, lower nationalized testing scores than other areas of the country where fluoridation is not used. Where is the evidence of this? Our youth here score very highly and I'm just not seeing this wave of dumbed-down kids that have spent their previous eighteen years slurping down our "toxic" water.

So either NoVA does it right, or it isn't a problem at all.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The effects of Fluoride on the brain are not
> > exactly manifest by clinically diagnosable
> > symptoms. It is like mercury and lead, and
> other
> > heavy metals. They don't cause distinct,
> instant
> > onset neurological problems that are easily
> > detectable.
> >
> > Basically, it dulls cognitive ability without
> > causing other outward symptoms.
>
> But again, by this argument and using NoVA as an
> example, which has had fluoridated water for
> DECADES, you would expect those growing up here to
> have, say, lower nationalized testing scores than
> other areas of the country where fluoridation is
> not used. Where is the evidence of this? Our
> youth here score very highly and I'm just not
> seeing this wave of dumbed-down kids that have
> spent their previous eighteen years slurping down
> our "toxic" water.
>
> So either NoVA does it right, or it isn't a
> problem at all.

There are very few places in the US that do not fluoridate their water. And even in places that do not fluoridate their water, they consume products made in places where water is fluoridated -- sodas, soups, canned vegetables, meat fed fluoridated water and grains grown with fluoridated water, citrus grown in Florida absorbs the fallout from fertilizer plants that spew hexafluorosilicic acid into the atmosphere. There is probably not a single person in this country who isn't exposed to sodium hexafluorosilicate or hexafluorosilicic acid.

The fluoridation affects higher reasoning skills, like being able to differentiate between fantasy and reality, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2008 09:36PM by Bob.

We have seen and are noticing a dumbing down of our education system in relation to our student population. This has been nationally recognized and reported on repeatedly.

Like Bob said fluoride has been introduced across the US and through out our water supply. We and our children are suffering from decisions blindly made decades ago by a generation who trusted what they were told and we are discovering that's not our reality. You can't look at one area as a control group either since, like NoVA, or any area for that matter because these areas are always changing. People moving in and out constantly.

You would think that as a nation our younger generation would be surpassing other nations as a whole in education, but we aren't. Years ago we had a higher standing against the other countries then we do now. I don't believe that's an accident. Could this be a form of terrorism?

While stationed in Okinawa, Japan the military built a new housing base for their joint military families. No one did a environmental test prior to building the base. So, once everyone moved in people started getting sick.

First: The base had been built next to a crematorium and at night it was cranked up.

Second: There also a pig rendering plant outside the housing area which once it started working you could see a film billow out from it to the surrounding areas.

Environmental testing machines were placed through out the housing area to test the air quality. The conditions were so bad that the machines broke due to the air quality.

If that wasn't bad enough the first year all residents were required to obtain and use bottled water for all household use due to the plumbing being put together with lead.

The school water fountains we were first told were alright, we later were told we not and they were shut down as well.

This happens regularly rather you hear of it or not around most all military bases. You would have a difficult time convincing me that these were just accidents. Okinawa is a small island and the US owns a huge chunk of their land and they don't like us because of that, and have wanted us to return a lot of it back to them.

It's sad to say that we must now, especially in this environment, watch everything. A lot of countries and their people hate us and having seen it I know it's real, and no matter what we do they will always hate us.

Sort of like with me and some of the posters on this site...ingnorance is dangerous!

Rod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The March 2006 National Academy of
> Sciences/National Research Council identifies
> fluoride as a potential hormone disruptor that may
> effect normal thyroid function.
>
> The NAS/NRC report also cites concern about the
> potential of fluoride to lower IQ and notes that
> the "constistency or results appears significant
> enough to warrant additional research on the
> effects of fluoride on intelligence."
>
> That finding was echoed by the prestigious, peer
> reviewed journal The Lancet, which identifies
> fluoridated water as as a "emerging" neurotoxin.
>
> A 2006 peer reviewed study at Harvard strongly
> supported concerns that fluoridated water is
> linked to osteosarcoma, a often fatal form of bone
> cancer in boys. The Harvard study found a five
> fold increase in bone cancer among teenage boys
> who drank fluoridated water during ages six
> through eight, compared to those drinking non
> fluoridated water.

I suppose that is just to offset all the hormones that get flushed back into the water by the folks that urinate their medicines into the toilet.

Amazing, I have never even heard of osteosarcoma - you would think with all the tap water we drank around here as kids, it would be an epidemic by now.

Do you think that may be why girls are developing earlier?

No, that would be TV, depicting "pre-adolescents" in college lifestyles when they are trying to show them in Junior High and High School. That and bad parenting.

That, and steroids in the beef.

Well, beef, chicken, all of the meat steroids I would agree.

Soon we will offset all of this with gene-grains. Nothing like accelerating human evolution at the speed of science.

If we don't go crazy from the mercury in the fish, first.

Bah, mercury is old hat. We would be dead already - didn't you break any thermometers when you were a kid?

Believe it or not, no. SOME of us were RESPONSIBLE when we were children.

Yah right.

Well, on being responsible that is. Maybe your parents only used digital thermometers :)

Whatever you say there, Registered FLOATER.

Ba-zing!

I suppose you thought that was was funny.. hmm MrMe?

Shit yeah that motherfuckin' shit was funny. I'm going to go start a new thread immortalizing my pithy wit.

On a more serious note..

Vince's hero:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story?id=6251086&page=1

Quote

...
"It's not terrorism because it doesn't target people, to kill or injure," Ayers said.
...

So I guess that means all those abortion clinic bombers were just - well, making a statement.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suppose that is just to offset all the hormones
> that get flushed back into the water by the folks
> that urinate their medicines into the toilet.

That much is true. Every pharmaceutical people take ends up getting flushed down the toilet, into rivers where it is once again purified and served up as drinking water.

They do studies on cocaine usage in London by testing the levels of residuals in the thames river. As well as hormones from birth control pills.

>
> Amazing, I have never even heard of osteosarcoma -
> you would think with all the tap water we drank
> around here as kids, it would be an epidemic by
> now.

It doesn't cause osteosarcoma in 100% of those exposed. Just like cigarettes do not cause lung cancer in 100% of smokers. You have to have other risk factors in order to get osteosarcoma, just like lung cancer -- genetic predisposition, other antagonists, etc.

Smoking cigarettes, along with being exposed to city pollution like diesel fumes and particulates, and a genetic predisposition to the particular cell mutation cause lung cancer. Smoking cigarettes doesn't cause lung cancer, all by itself. And even if you've got all three, there's still no guarantee you're going to get lung cancer in your lifetime.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> How is it toxic? NoVA has had fluoridated water
> going back decades and I have never seen nor heard
> any claim that there has been an increase in
> fatality rates here due to fluoride in the water.

But you have to love the FFX CO Board of Supervisors. They made sure to cover their ass if it turns out the stuff does kill/maim people:

Section 42-1-5 (Fairfax County Code). Liability for injury or damage.
The Board of Supervisors in authorizing fluoridation, however, expressly declares that it in no way assumes any liability for, or on account of, any damage or injury incurred by any user of water so treated. (1954 Code, vol. 1, § 8-5; 1961 Code, § 13-5.)

So yeah, we're going to dump this crap in your water, but don't come crying to us if you get a third arm growing out of your back.

Doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling.

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > How is it toxic? NoVA has had fluoridated
> water
> > going back decades and I have never seen nor
> heard
> > any claim that there has been an increase in
> > fatality rates here due to fluoride in the
> water.
>
> But you have to love the FFX CO Board of
> Supervisors. They made sure to cover their ass if
> it turns out the stuff does kill/maim people:
>
> Section 42-1-5 (Fairfax County Code). Liability
> for injury or damage.
> The Board of Supervisors in authorizing
> fluoridation, however, expressly declares that it
> in no way assumes any liability for, or on account
> of, any damage or injury incurred by any user of
> water so treated. (1954 Code, vol. 1, § 8-5; 1961
> Code, § 13-5.)
>
> So yeah, we're going to dump this crap in your
> water, but don't come crying to us if you get a
> third arm growing out of your back.
>
> Doesn't leave me with a warm fuzzy feeling.


Based on the studies and this statue would this not be negligence?

Yeah well, I think we can all agree that would never make it past the first round of a trial. They would be like "But look, we expressly stated we were not responsible!!" Then the judge would say something like "Yes, well, I expressly declare that you are full of shit." Bring on the evidence.

What a bunch of pussies. Hey elect me... and then watch me try to make decisions for my constituents that I will never take responsibility for.

Registered Voter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah well, I think we can all agree that would
> never make it past the first round of a trial.
> They would be like "But look, we expressly stated
> we were not responsible!!" Then the judge would
> say something like "Yes, well, I expressly declare
> that you are full of shit." Bring on the
> evidence.
>
> What a bunch of pussies. Hey elect me... and then
> watch me try to make decisions for my constituents
> that I will never take responsibility for.


Haven't they passed laws on both state and federal levels that absolve "officials" from any responsibility for their actions while acting in an "official capacity"?

And even when there are not laws protecting them, how often will a judge who works for the government and gets paid by the government find fault in another government employee who was "only acting according to the laws he was paid to enforce" or whatever?

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Registered Voter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah well, I think we can all agree that would
> > never make it past the first round of a trial.
> > They would be like "But look, we expressly
> stated
> > we were not responsible!!" Then the judge would
> > say something like "Yes, well, I expressly
> declare
> > that you are full of shit." Bring on the
> > evidence.
> >
> > What a bunch of pussies. Hey elect me... and
> then
> > watch me try to make decisions for my
> constituents
> > that I will never take responsibility for.
>
>
> Haven't they passed laws on both state and federal
> levels that absolve "officials" from any
> responsibility for their actions while acting in
> an "official capacity"?
>
> And even when there are not laws protecting them,
> how often will a judge who works for the
> government and gets paid by the government find
> fault in another government employee who was "only
> acting according to the laws he was paid to
> enforce" or whatever?


So, where's the oversight and how is it enforced?

spunky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> So, where's the oversight and how is it enforced?


All of the sunshine laws passed in the 1970's have been overturned, rewritten or overridden in the last 8 years.

Some of those laws would possibly have even prevented the current financial crisis, in fact. Though there's no way to know for sure.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> spunky Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > So, where's the oversight and how is it
> enforced?
>
>
> All of the sunshine laws passed in the 1970's have
> been overturned, rewritten or overridden in the
> last 8 years.
>
> Some of those laws would possibly have even
> prevented the current financial crisis, in fact.
> Though there's no way to know for sure.


So, would it be fair to say the Repukes have aided and

ushered in the destruction of our nation in some degree over these last

8 years?

spunky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> So, would it be fair to say the Repukes have aided
> and
>
> ushered in the destruction of our nation in some
> degree over these last
>
> 8 years?


Don't blame just one party.

This is a duopoly for a reason.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duopoly#Politics

Modern American politics has been described as a duopoly since the Republican and Democratic parties have dominated and framed policy debate as well as the public discourse on matters of national concern for about a century and a half. Third Parties have encountered various obstacles to getting onto ballots at different levels of government, more so in recent decades.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duopoly#Politics
>
> Modern American politics has been described as a
> duopoly since the Republican and Democratic
> parties have dominated and framed policy debate as
> well as the public discourse on matters of
> national concern for about a century and a half.
> Third Parties have encountered various obstacles
> to getting onto ballots at different levels of
> government, more so in recent decades.
>
>


So, this why nothing is getting done anymore?

spunky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> So, this why nothing is getting done anymore?

No, don't believe for a moment that nothing is getting done anymore.

They've got us right where they want us, and things are getting done that we'd never approve of if we weren't being distracted with partisan bickering and hot-button issues like abortion, gun rights and immigration.

Don't think for a minute that this economic crisis won't eventually lead to a global central bank that controls all monetary systems like the federal reserve bank (a privately owned company) controls our monetary system and issues currency in this country right now.

I was thinking the other day, we should only elect folks that will go up to pass a bill/amendment that states something along the lines of:

Other than for purposes which are considered Essential and Necessary (that list to be determined by this group also - but along the lines of military, Soc Sec, etc), taxpayers may opt out of paying portions of their taxes that do not fall in line with their beliefs. IE if Congress passed a law saying we have to fund abortions, then that would be a tax that you could either opt to pay or not. That way abortions would not be illegal, but only the people that want to fund it have to fund it. Kind of the ultimate church and state argument :) I am sure this would be doable :)

I'm reading in the paper that sexual activity has actually gone down among out teen population and I'm wondering why. Some will probably suggest it;s sexual education. Whatever it is it is not morality. I'm guessing it's the cumulative effect of the fluoride. We are also seeing a lot of advertisement of male sexual dysfunction pills of various kinds mainly Viagra. I feel fine in that regard but then I filter or distill or buy non fluoridated water. Could it be that fluoride which is the main ingredient of Prozac inhibits sexual desire?

Another is could fluoride taking contribute to the cu rent mindless shift to the left? Most today will not question the addition of fluoride even though it makes no sense. If you think it;s so good for teeth take Fluoride toothpaste.

Reston is way to the blue. Could it be that more fluoride is put in the water here?

I'm wondering if we could look at a map and see where fluoride is used and see blue? We are quickley becoming a Floridehead nation! Screaming about the global warming when the planet is really getting colder with more icecaps. So then we just say the change!!!!!!

Rod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm reading in the paper that sexual activity has
> actually gone down among out teen population and
> I'm wondering why. Some will probably suggest it;s
> sexual education. Whatever it is it is not
> morality. I'm guessing it's the cumulative effect
> of the fluoride. We are also seeing a lot of
> advertisement of male sexual dysfunction pills of
> various kinds mainly Viagra. I feel fine in that
> regard but then I filter or distill or buy non
> fluoridated water. Could it be that fluoride which
> is the main ingredient of Prozac inhibits sexual
> desire?

I don't think fluoride necessarily affects libido or anything like that, at least not directly.

BTW, filtering water doesn't necessarily remove Fluoride. There is even some claims that even reverse osmosis doesn't remove Fluoride. Drinking distilled water is also dangerous to your health, if you drink only distilled water -- it will slowly deplete your body's stores of vitamins and minerals.

If you want to avoid fluoride and the other harmful substances in tap water (perchlorate, trihalomethanes and all the residual prescription drugs from the people who pee upriver of your municipality's water source) bottled water is about your only option, but you have to know what is in the water you're buying. Pellegrino, for example, has .52mg/L of Fluoride, in addition to Lithium and Strontium.

http://www.mineralwaters.org/ -- you can find out about the contents of just about every bottled water from around the world. Fiji is about the cleanest/healthiest.



> Another is could fluoride taking contribute to the
> cu rent mindless shift to the left? Most today
> will not question the addition of fluoride even
> though it makes no sense. If you think it;s so
> good for teeth take Fluoride toothpaste.
>
> Reston is way to the blue. Could it be that more
> fluoride is put in the water here?
>
> I'm wondering if we could look at a map and see
> where fluoride is used and see blue? We are
> quickley becoming a Floridehead nation! Screaming
> about the global warming when the planet is really
> getting colder with more icecaps. So then we just
> say the change!!!!!!

Considering that there are very few places that do not fluoridate their water, your theory would mean that the entire country is "blue". Plus, even where the water isn't fluoridated, they still consume products produced in places that have fluoridated water, and produce grown with fluoridated water, etc. Just about everything you eat or drink has fluoride in it, sometimes in high concentrations.

Nobody has made an argument that there are MORE ice caps, and the planet is actually getting warmer at the moment. I will agree that it is a religious-like belief that the planet is getting irreversibly warmer and that it is because of the activities of man, when there are a lot of scientists who say that the planet goes through cyclical changes as well as is affected by cyclical changes in sun activity, and that the effect of man's activity is so miniscule and immaterial in such a large and complex climate system.

]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2012 02:51PM by Alias.

Alias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bob, no one will buy that cyclical thing--too much
> free money at stake.


No doubt.

There are too many interests that benefit from the global warming religion.

Don't forget that it has replaced all other environmental concerns. People and organizations that used to be mobilized against things like pollution, destruction of habitats and animal extinction are now all focused on reducing carbon emissions.