http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs

A couple of things...

1) off-topic

2) this has been rehashed again and again by all sorts of kooks and proven to be wholly untrue

nice try, however

Produced October 10, 2008 and narrated by a Dem.

Interesting. Probably off topic. However, interesting none the less. What do you want to bet that after obama gets elected, this Philip Berg has an 'accident' or commits 'suicide'??

It's BS like this that is going to get this inexperienced socialist elected. Every time someone trots out the "Obama is a Muslim" rumor (or something like this) Barrack can avoid answering the REAL questions about experience,associations, ideology and true character.


I would never vote for a LAWYER over a vet who bled for this nation.

No Meara Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would never vote for a LAWYER over a vet who
> bled for this nation.


Does being a veteran give you an automatic pass? Reagan was an actor while Carter was a Navy officer...did you feel the same way then, or was it more convenient to vote Elephant?

I hate to sound cynical about McCain, but he finished near the bottom of his class at Annapolis, was a self-confessed bad boy and party guy, would never have been selected to be a naval aviator if his father and grandfather were not flag officers, and was such a poor pilot that he crashed several planes prior to being shot down in Vietnam. Some would argue that if he had been a more competent pilot that he never would have ended up in the Hanoi Hilton at all. What would we be saying about McCain today if he had become a ship driver? My guess is not much unless he was a member of the JCS.

Exactly. McCain's military career was a series of fuckups glossed over by nepotism. Just because you "bleed for your country" does not make you a good person. My Dad and two of my uncles are Viet Nam Vets, and it's funny how completely angry they are that a nimrod like McCain could be the next president. To them, he's just some spoiled dumbass that had the misfortune of being captured by the enemy.

Changed my mind...this is on-topic because his name appears on a Fairfax County ballot.

This would be, complete BS.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...n_the_usa.html

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...disclosed.html

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...icate-part-ii/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

There are many valid arguments to make for / against both candidates. However when you do nothing but repeat campaign talking points and BS attack ads you do nothing but show your stupidity.

Citing factcheck as a source is a JOKE!

It is run by the Annenberg Foundation which Obama ran for years. And it is heavily connected to Obama's buddy, the terrorist William Ayers.

Reference a credible source if you want to try to debunk something.

The reality is that Obama did not contest ANY of the many facts in the court case (e.g., that he is not an American citizen, etc.), which means that they now are accepted by the court as true.

VERY interesting that he would not contest them if he had ANY evidence that they were not true.

Hahaha. d00d, if there were any credibilty whatsoever, you don't think McCain would be all over this???

Seriously, it's retarded.

Frank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reality is that Obama did not contest ANY of
> the many facts in the court case (e.g., that he is
> not an American citizen, etc.), which means that
> they now are accepted by the court as true.
>
> VERY interesting that he would not contest them if
> he had ANY evidence that they were not true.


I am not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure that that is not how the process works. This isn't small claims court where a default judgment for the plaintiff is awarded if the defendant does not show up for the trial. You can file a lawsuit claiming that I am an airplane and my decision to ignore this does not make it true.

Think about it for a minute...given the 24-hour news cycle and ease of information sourcing with Google and other internet tools how would it be possible for this to escape the watchful eyes of Fox News and CNN if it were remotely true? Obama has been on the campaign trail for well over 18 months and this is one of the most ridiculous "facts" still being bounced around.

Federal Rules of Civil Procedure states that unless the accused party provides written answer or objection to Requests for Adminssions within 30 days, the accused legally admits the matter. The requests were lodged September 15th, and have not been answered.

I did slightly overstate by saying the *court* accepts these as facts. Under the rules of civil procedure, it is simply Obama who accepts these as facts.

The court is expected to rule soon. With luck it will be before the election.

Frank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Citing factcheck as a source is a JOKE!
>
> It is run by the Annenberg Foundation which Obama
> ran for years. And it is heavily connected to
> Obama's buddy, the terrorist William Ayers.
>
> Reference a credible source if you want to try to
> debunk something.

Are you completely insane? "Obama ran the Annenberg foundation" "Connected of William Ayers". Show me one valid piece of evidence citing either of those two statements and I will drive to you house and mow your lawn this weekend.

I'm not going to get into an argument here because any argument, let alone a political one on a message board is about as worthwhile as a kick in the balls.

Like I first said there are plenty of valid, reasonable arguments to make for and against both candidates. I'm not going to change your vote and your not going to change mine. But continuing to cite BS arguments like the William Ayers connection, Obama not being a citizen, Palin supporting Pat Buchanan and McCain fathering an illegitimate black child lowers the level of discourse and hurts us all.

And FYI, factcheck.org is a valid, non partisan foundation that BOTH Democrats and Republicans, as well as many large research institutes and the federal govt. use on a very regular basis.

ckelly3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frank Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

>
> Are you completely insane? "Obama ran the
> Annenberg foundation" "Connected of William
> Ayers". Show me one valid piece of evidence citing
> either of those two statements and I will drive to
> you house and mow your lawn this weekend.
>


William Ayers and Barack Obama both served as co-chairs of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge funded by the Annenberg Foundation.

Obama called for an $3.5 million dollar earmark for the Annenburg Foundation that funds FactCheck.org.

I don't need my lawn mowed, but the leaves need raking. What time should I expect you?

There is a birth announcement in the August 13, 1961 Honolulu Advertiser listing Obama's birth on August 4.

But I guess it is possible that his family, knowing that one day he'd run for president, planted a false story about his birth.

That makes total sense.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a birth announcement in the August 13,
> 1961 Honolulu Advertiser listing Obama's birth on
> August 4.
>
> But I guess it is possible that his family,
> knowing that one day he'd run for president,
> planted a false story about his birth.
>
> That makes total sense.


It wasn't his family that but in that announcment, IT WAS WILLIAM AYERS!!

See, around 1961 Ayers was already on the FBI's watch list, which would prevent him from reaching the level of influence he needed to achieve his ultimate goal, TOTAL WORLD DOMINATION. So he flew to Kenya, stole a child from a goat herder and set him up with a impressionable women in Hawaii. Over the next 47 years Ayers used his underground influences and power to manipulate not only the democratic party, but the American people into electing this man as president.

Once Obama wins Ayers and the rest of his communist, Muslim, gay, terrorists syndicate will slowly start to take positions of power in all branches of the US government, and in turn we will become a nation where every other baby is aborted, all men are forced to marry other men and Islamic Jihad becomes our new national defense policy.

All of this is true, I read it on Wikipedia and foxnews.com

lol @ ckelly3

Or, maybe the reporter at the Honolulu newspaper meant to write about births at the local hospital, but made a mistake and accidentally wrote an announcement about a birth 10,000 miles away in Africa.

Stuff like that happens to me all the time.

I heard McCain was actually born in the Czech Republic. If you look closely you can tell.

Elmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>> I heard McCain was actually born in the Czech Republic. If you look closely you can tell.


Except back then it was called The Holy Roman Empire.

> William Ayers and Barack Obama both served as
> co-chairs of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
> funded by the Annenberg Foundation.
>
> Obama called for an $3.5 million dollar earmark
> for the Annenburg Foundation that funds
> FactCheck.org.
>
> I don't need my lawn mowed, but the leaves need
> raking. What time should I expect you?

I said CITE a source, no re-type a bull shit attack ad you have been hearing on repeat coming from the right wing for the last 3 months.

The Chicago Annenburg Challenge is a public / private partnership aimed to help reform inner city public schools, this is one project out of hundreds that the Annenberg Foundation has funded since it's inception. They fund similar programs in Oakland, Pittsburgh, Houston and Trenton New Jersey. The Annenburg Foundation also funds the schools of Public Policy and Communication at UPenn, Farmlab, as well as the aforementioned factcheck.org.

So using you distorted logic here, since Obama sat on a board of a program that constitutes maybe .0001% of the Annenburg Foundation overall, then in turn any report that is issued by factcheck.org is bull shit?

You saying "It is run by the Annenberg Foundation which Obama ran for years" is the equivalent of me saying "My 11th grade US history teacher was the secretary of education for YEARS"!!

So, again using YOUR logic here, when factcheck.org disputed left wing claims that Palin supported Pat Buchanan in 2000, is that BS? Or when they claim the PRO-Obama UAW ad's currently being run in Michigan right now openly lie about McCain's views on auto unions, is that BS?

BTW, Leonore Annenberg who is the sole director of the Annenberg Foundation pledged her support to McCain in August.

Also, John McCain was born in Panama. Where is his birth certificate?

If you truly, honestly believe that this lawsuit, filed by the same lawyer who runs 911fortheTruth.com has any merit whatsoever or it's outcome will in anyway sway this election. Then sir, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2008 02:03PM by ckelly3.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elmer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >>> I heard McCain was actually born in the Czech
> Republic. If you look closely you can tell.
>
>
> Except back then it was called The Holy Roman
> Empire.

Bullshit. There are stone tablets that clearly document McCain's birth as an red-blooded American hero.

McCain's birth records are on display at the Smithsonian in the BC section, look for the cuneiform tablets that start with M.

ckelly3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > William Ayers and Barack Obama both served as
> > co-chairs of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
> > funded by the Annenberg Foundation.
> >
> > Obama called for an $3.5 million dollar earmark
> > for the Annenburg Foundation that funds
> > FactCheck.org.
> >
> > I don't need my lawn mowed, but the leaves need
> > raking. What time should I expect you?
>
> I said CITE a source, no re-type a bull shit
> attack ad you have been hearing on repeat coming
> from the right wing for the last 3 months.
>
> The Chicago Annenburg Challenge is a public /
> private partnership aimed to help reform inner
> city public schools, this is one project out of
> hundreds that the Annenberg Foundation has funded
> since it's inception. They fund similar programs
> in Oakland, Pittsburgh, Houston and Trenton New
> Jersey. The Annenburg Foundation also funds the
> schools of Public Policy and Communication at
> UPenn, Farmlab, as well as the aforementioned
> factcheck.org.
>
> So using you distorted logic here, since Obama sat
> on a board of a program that constitutes maybe
> .0001% of the Annenburg Foundation overall, then
> in turn any report that is issued by factcheck.org
> is bull shit?
>
> You saying "It is run by the Annenberg Foundation
> which Obama ran for years" is the equivalent of me
> saying "My 11th grade US history teacher was the
> secretary of education for YEARS"!!
>
> So, again using YOUR logic here, when
> factcheck.org disputed left wing claims that Palin
> supported Pat Buchanan in 2000, is that BS? Or
> when they claim the PRO-Obama UAW ad's currently
> being run in Michigan right now openly lie about
> McCain's views on auto unions, is that BS?
>
> BTW, Leonore Annenberg who is the sole director of
> the Annenberg Foundation pledged her support to
> McCain in August.
>
> Also, John McCain was born in Panama. Where is his
> birth certificate?
>
> If you truly, honestly believe that this lawsuit,
> filed by the same lawyer who runs
> 911fortheTruth.com has any merit whatsoever or
> it's outcome will in anyway sway this election.
> Then sir, what you've just said is one of the most
> insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no
> point in your rambling, incoherent response were
> you even close to anything that could be
> considered a rational thought. Everyone in this
> room is now dumber for having listened to it. I
> award you no points, and may God have mercy on
> your soul.

Time of the month? A bit snippy here, aren't you? CITE a source, pick one, you dumb bitch. I am not the original poster. Let's cite my post line by line and see if you can follow:


William Ayers and Barack Obama both served as co-chairs of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge:

"Twenty-six years later, at a lunchtime meeting about school reform in a Chicago skyscraper, Barack Obama met Mr. Ayers, by then an education professor. Their paths have crossed sporadically since then, at a coffee Mr. Ayers hosted for Mr. Obama’s first run for office, on the schools project and a charitable board, and in casual encounters as Hyde Park neighbors."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

funded by the Annenberg Foundation"

"CHICAGO -- The Annenberg Foundation today announced a five-year grant totaling $49.2 million to support Chicago school reform, calling Chicago reform "a major breakthrough from which the nation can learn." The grant, part of the half-billion-dollar Annenberg Challenge to the Nation to improve the nation's public schools, will be matched two-to-one by $100 million in local private and public dollars."

http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/1987-95/94-084.html


Obama called for an $3.5 million dollar earmark for the Annenburg Foundation:

"Obama Requested $3.5 Million For The USC Annenberg Research Network. In 2005, Obama requested $3.5 million for the USC Annenberg Research Network on International Communication, in partnership with the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign,"

http://answercenter.barackobama.com/cgi-bin/barackobama.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=172&p_created=1205426026&p_sid=HNvzn9hj&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MSwxJnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY9JnBfY3Y9JnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2VhcmNoX3RleHQ9ZWFybWFyaw**&p_li=&p_topview=1

that funds FactCheck.org.

"The Annenberg Political Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania."

http://www.factcheck.org/about/



Happy now? I could give a shit about your inane ramblings with Frank. You asked for proof. You got it. Nothing in my statement to you was incorrect. I don't care about the birth certificate thing either. Look, I just want my yard raked. What time are you coming by?

I heard that McCain is actually Obama's grandfather and that they were both born in North Korea.

What in the hell are you talking about?

Let me recap this argument
- This entire argument started when Frank claimed that Obama was not a US citizen. - I countered, citing a factcheck.org article among others that prove that the
claim that Obama is not a US citizen is, in fact total bullshit.
- Frank then claimed that factcheck.org was not a credible source of information
because Obama once sat on the board of a group (ACC) that gets funding from the
same foundation that factcheck.org dose
- I countered by saying that the fact Obama sat on the ACC board, has no effect on
anything that factcheck.org publishes.
- Then you came in and linked a bunch of random links asking me to rack your leaves?

How do any of those links have anything to do with the argument we are having here, which is the credibility of factcheck.org?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2008 03:10PM by ckelly3.

Who said this?

""Obama ran the Annenberg foundation" "Connected of William Ayers". Show me one valid piece of evidence citing either of those two statements and I will drive to you house and mow your lawn this weekend."

Like I said, I don't care about the rest of your argument or Frank's.

You have no clue, it is called reading comprehension, try it somtime.

After I cited a factcheck.org article to refute the claim that was made about Obama not being a US citizen, Frank claimed that factcheck.org was not credible because "It is run by the Annenberg Foundation which Obama ran for years. And it is heavily connected to Obama's buddy, the terrorist William Ayers".

I asked for any evidence, that would prove the claim that since Obama sat on the ACC board then factcheck.org was not a refutable source of information.

Obama sat on the ACC board, no shit, the sky is blue. But, how dose that have anything to do with the credibility of factcheck.org?

That is the question I asked, and is the question that is in no way answered by your random sampling of citations.

Wow, thanks for the very entertaining discussion between I'll Take The Challenge and CKelly3. I believe I'll Take The Challenge succeeded by defeating the broken left wing of CKelly3. Poor thing, you should now learn to use your right wing and join the flock and soar high above.

cheetah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, thanks for the very entertaining discussion
> between I'll Take The Challenge and CKelly3. I
> believe I'll Take The Challenge succeeded by
> defeating the broken left wing of CKelly3. Poor
> thing, you should now learn to use your right wing
> and join the flock and soar high above.

Actually, I am a registered republican who has already voted for McCain. But since I live in Arlington it won't do much good.

I just can't stand uneducated attack based arguments from either side.

Let's stop all of this nonsense. Join me in voting for a black man with experience. Write-in Marion Barry for prez.

Don't they add up all the votes in Virginia? And yes factcheck.org is an Obama leaning organization.


ckelly3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Actually, I am a registered republican who has
> already voted for McCain. But since I live in
> Arlington it won't do much good.

I'll take that challenge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ckelly3 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Frank Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> >
> > Are you completely insane? "Obama ran the
> > Annenberg foundation" "Connected of William
> > Ayers". Show me one valid piece of evidence
> citing
> > either of those two statements and I will drive
> to
> > you house and mow your lawn this weekend.
> >
>
>
> William Ayers and Barack Obama both served as
> co-chairs of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge
> funded by the Annenberg Foundation.
>
> Obama called for an $3.5 million dollar earmark
> for the Annenburg Foundation that funds
> FactCheck.org.
>
> I don't need my lawn mowed, but the leaves need
> raking. What time should I expect you?

"Recently he was appointed president of the board of the Annenberg Challenge Grant, which will distribute some $50 million in grants to public-school reform efforts." from the Chicago Reader paper:

http://www.chicagoreader.com/obama/951208/

I'd look up the Ayers connection for you too but I figure if you can't google, you probably won't know how to click on the link either.

I do need my lawn mowed. Where can I pick you up, Mr./Ms. Challenge?

ckelly3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have no clue, it is called reading
> comprehension, try it somtime.
>
> After I cited a factcheck.org article to refute
> the claim that was made about Obama not being a US
> citizen, Frank claimed that factcheck.org was not
> credible because "It is run by the Annenberg
> Foundation which Obama ran for years. And it is
> heavily connected to Obama's buddy, the terrorist
> William Ayers".
>
> I asked for any evidence, that would prove the
> claim that since Obama sat on the ACC board then
> factcheck.org was not a refutable source of
> information.
>
> Obama sat on the ACC board, no shit, the sky is
> blue. But, how dose that have anything to do with
> the credibility of factcheck.org?
>
> That is the question I asked, and is the question
> that is in no way answered by your random sampling
> of citations.

So you appear to now be accepting that Obama did run Annenberg and perhaps you've also now done some googling to discover that Ayers was connected as well. But now you are saying "despite all that, why would we think that factcheck -- run by Annenberg - is a dubious source for partisanship-free facts?

If you can't work through the logic for yourself, never mind...

can u rake my leaves too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't they add up all the votes in Virginia? And
> yes factcheck.org is an Obama leaning
> organization.

Brain fart, I live in Dc, work in Arlington.

Frank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you can't work through the logic for yourself,
> never mind...

"Recently he was appointed president of the board of the Annenberg Challenge Grant, which will distribute some $50 million in grants to public-school reform efforts".

One last time.

The Annenberg CHALLENGE GRANT is NOT the Annenberg FOUNDATION. It is one of many programs that the foundation funds. Saying that Obama ran the Annenberg Foundation is like saying the cashier of the Exxon station in Chantilly is the CEO of Exxon Mobil.

The Annenberg FOUNDATION (which is run by a McCain supporter) funds factcheck.org, the Annenberg CHALLENGE GRANT has NOTHING to do with factcheck.org.

To bring this full circle.

- Fred said - Obama is possibly not a US citizen
- I said - Your wrong, here is proof that you are wrong
- Frank said - Your proof is not vaild because I said so
- I said - Your a moron

And with that I am out. Enjoy the weekend all, thanks for giving me somthing to do while my work day was slow

ckelly3 said
"Actually, I am a registered republican who has already voted for McCain. But since I live in Arlington it won't do much good."

then ckelly3 said
"I live in Dc, work in Arlington."

A typical Obama supporter who doesn't know facts and can't reason. I don't even trust you to mow my lawn.

> yes factcheck.org is an Obama leaning

Yup. Because, as we all know, facts have a well known liberal bias.

Reston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs


The October Surprise is that the birth certificate has been produced repeatedly by Obama and it is authentic...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Give it up, weirdos. You are going to have a guy named Hussein for President. Get used to it.

Fairfax22032 Wrote:
> Does being a veteran give you an automatic pass?
> Reagan was an actor while Carter was a Navy
> officer...did you feel the same way then, or was
> it more convenient to vote Elephant?


I couldn't vote in 1980, but it would have gone to Reagan as Carter had a 4 year run of ineptitude by then.

TheMeeper Wrote:
> My Dad and two of my uncles are Viet Nam Vets, and it's funny how completely
> angry they are that a nimrod like McCain could be the next president.

I hear you and I've heard more than a few Navy men who were very unimpressed by McCains tenure as Navy Liason (lobbyist).


Take all the crap you can find about McCain he still-

1) Stayed in Hanoi when he could have left

2) Has a legislative record of bipartisanship (Obama has consistently voted liberal)

3) Has been correct about the Iraq surge strategy (this is kind of a wash because Obama VP pick Biden ALSO voted for the Iraq War if anyone wants to go that route)

4) Is clean- none of the "Keating 5" charges are really worth anything

5) Is ideologically different than Obama in role of government and taxes

6) Does not have the extremist associations ( or funny explainations Obama does)


I wanted Ron Paul, but I'll go with the man who regardless of what he did in his 20's, seems to be miles ahead on the character issue and hasn't spent his career finding cute ways to justify more government spending.

You won't get MORE freedom by getting MORE government- and thats what Obama seems to promise..

can u rake my leaves too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't they add up all the votes in Virginia? And
> yes factcheck.org is an Obama leaning
> organization.
>
>


Well, apparently so is the U.S. State Department because Obama has a passport and he had to have an authentic birth certificate to get one.

Can't we just get along? Do the right thing. Vote for Marion Barry.

No Meara Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fairfax22032 Wrote:
> > Does being a veteran give you an automatic pass?
>
> > Reagan was an actor while Carter was a Navy
> > officer...did you feel the same way then, or
> was
> > it more convenient to vote Elephant?
>
>
> I couldn't vote in 1980, but it would have gone to
> Reagan as Carter had a 4 year run of ineptitude by
> then.
>
> TheMeeper Wrote:
> > My Dad and two of my uncles are Viet Nam Vets,
> and it's funny how completely
> > angry they are that a nimrod like McCain could
> be the next president.
>
> I hear you and I've heard more than a few Navy men
> who were very unimpressed by McCains tenure as
> Navy Liason (lobbyist).
>
>
> Take all the crap you can find about McCain he
> still-
>
> 1) Stayed in Hanoi when he could have left
>
> 2) Has a legislative record of bipartisanship
> (Obama has consistently voted liberal)
>
> 3) Has been correct about the Iraq surge strategy
> (this is kind of a wash because Obama VP pick
> Biden ALSO voted for the Iraq War if anyone wants
> to go that route)
>
> 4) Is clean- none of the "Keating 5" charges are
> really worth anything
>
> 5) Is ideologically different than Obama in role
> of government and taxes
>
> 6) Does not have the extremist associations ( or
> funny explainations Obama does)
>
>
> I wanted Ron Paul, but I'll go with the man who
> regardless of what he did in his 20's, seems to be
> miles ahead on the character issue and hasn't
> spent his career finding cute ways to justify more
> government spending.
>
> You won't get MORE freedom by getting MORE
> government- and thats what Obama seems to
> promise..


1. WTF does his POW status have to do with being president...that is ancient history. You dont think McSame wasnt aware he would have been humiliated and called a coward if he had come home early? It was just as much an act of self protection as heroism.

2. No one voting 90% with Bush can claim having anything but a straight republikan line record.

3. the surge is not the end all statement about Iraq...it was one "success" after years of failure. When the troops are home the surge will be a success..since McSame doesn't want them home for another 100 years it'll be a while before success can be claimed. The fact is Iraq is still a very troubled country...with a future more likely to cause us all to think twice about the surge...we shouldve just got the hell out.

4. McSame escaped the Keating 5 scandal by the skin of his teeth. He admits it was his greatest lapse of good judgement...and cost the US tax payer millions.

5. Thank god he has a different view of the role of government..the middle class needs a break and trickle down voodoo econmics has been proven false....so has self regulation of the financial industry.

6. hell..I consider Palin a dangerous religious zealot...associated with Alsakan seperatists and a voodoo doctor.

Marion will lead us just like he lead the distict. Don't axe questions,just fire up the crack pipe. It'll be alright. Remember what Marion said about Palin. "Bitch set me up."

I love Marion Barry. He exemplifies the best in leadership. Obama was once a Barry suppoter. Please write-in Barry.

Fairfax22032 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Does being a veteran give you an automatic pass?
> Reagan was an actor while Carter was a Navy
> officer...did you feel the same way then, or was
> it more convenient to vote Elephant?
>
> I hate to sound cynical about McCain, but he
> finished near the bottom of his class at
> Annapolis, was a self-confessed bad boy and party
> guy, would never have been selected to be a naval
> aviator if his father and grandfather were not
> flag officers, and was such a poor pilot that he
> crashed several planes prior to being shot down in
> Vietnam. Some would argue that if he had been a
> more competent pilot that he never would have
> ended up in the Hanoi Hilton at all. What would
> we be saying about McCain today if he had become a
> ship driver? My guess is not much unless he was a
> member of the JCS.


"Ship Driver"

Are you a naval officer? I only ever hear the people I know who are navy or retired navy say that. I never hear that from anyone else.

(I also hear a lot of "Go Navy! Beat Army!" and "Did they ever get around to putting any books in that new library at West Point?" because they know my father's a west point grad, and even though those jokes don't mean anything to me, they still can't help themselves.)

Vince(1) Wrote:

>1. WTF does his POW status have to do with being president...that is ancient >history. You dont think McSame wasnt aware he would have been humiliated and >called a coward if he had come home early? It was just as much an act of self >protection as heroism.

You are projecting what McCain may have done and being presumptous/cynical.If you can't and don't respect this man's sacrifice, I am sorry for you. McCain has been tested and knows the horrors of war and opposes torture. I can't see Obama doing anything but trying to lawyer the nation out of situations instead of taking a stand when necessary.
>
> 2. No one voting 90% with Bush can claim having
> anything but a straight republikan line record.

MCain has voted often w/ Bush/Repubs- many of these votes are BS and symbolic votes (ie naming post offices, recognizing acheivement etc etc). On some big issues McCain has struck his own path- immigration, tax cuts ( he opposed them and Bush in 02)



> 3. the surge is not the end all statement about
> Iraq...it was one "success" after years of
> failure. When the troops are home the surge will
> be a success..since McSame doesn't want them home
> for another 100 years it'll be a while before
> success can be claimed. The fact is Iraq is still
> a very troubled country...with a future more
> likely to cause us all to think twice about the
> surge...we shouldve just got the hell out.

"Doesn't want them home fpr 100 years?" That's a BS misrepresentation on the lines of whats been done to Obama about tire pressure etc. MCain made a statement about his COMMITTMENT to the stabilization of Iraq ( I think we owe them that after screwing things up w/ Rumsfeld, who MCCain was highly critical of)


> 4. McSame escaped the Keating 5 scandal by the
> skin of his teeth. He admits it was his greatest
> lapse of good judgement...and cost the US tax
> payer millions.

McCain received lawful contributions from Keating and met to attempt to discuss prevent fed seizure of the S&L.Exonerated, not guilty of anything. His lapse of judgement was the mere association with Keating who at the time was a prominent banker in AZ- all prior to federal charges.DOn't twist facts- Keating 5 cost taxpayeers $$$, McCains few meetings with Charles Keating DID NOT...

> 5. Thank god he has a different view of the role
> of government..the middle class needs a break and
> trickle down voodoo econmics has been proven
> false....so has self regulation of the financial
> industry.

Proven false? Most economic policies can't really be proven ANYTHING and are disputed. When Reagan cut taxes revenues went up. Obama wants to rerturn to the higher tax rate of the Clinton years,even though we were in the tech boom in the 90's and teetering on recession/depression now? Was it the lack of regulation that brought us this mess or is the current lows related to:

1) reckless extension of credit in the housing market (something McCain tried to address years ago)
2) bad energy policy that doubled oil prices in 2008 ( McCain has slowly warmed to offshore and ANWAR drilling, Obama continues to be in "let's study" mode)

????
>
> 6. hell..I consider Palin a dangerous religious
> zealot...associated with Alsakan seperatists and a
> voodoo doctor.

Palin is much less in bed with your "voodoo doctor" and "ALaskan seperatists" than Obama is with anti-Semites and racists like his 20 year pastor ( who christened his kids, married him and Michelle). Palin doesn't come across well on TV and I sometiomes question the pick, BUT she has had executive esperience, been accountable for a budget and tens of thousands of employees and dealt with more domestic issues than Obama has in his stepping stone climb to the top.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Ship Driver"
>
> Are you a naval officer? I only ever hear the
> people I know who are navy or retired navy say
> that. I never hear that from anyone else.
>
Neither. I guess that it is just something that I picked up after living in the DC area for 20 years. I have a lot of friends who are senior (0-5/O-6) active and retired Navy and terms like that and mustang (officer promoted from enlisted) are tossed around quite bit over darts, poker and beer.

I stand by my statement..he escaped harsher judgement by the skin of his teeth...perhaps he and Glenn based on McSame's war record and Glenn's space hero status. Read for yourself these excerpts..or read it all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

On April 2, 1987, a meeting with chairman Gray of the FHLBB was held in DeConcini's Capitol office, with Senators Cranston, Glenn, and McCain also in attendance.[7] The senators requested that no staff be present.[12] DeConcini started the meeting with a mention of "our friend at Lincoln."[7] Gray told the assembled senators that he did not know the particular details of the status of Lincoln Savings and Loan, and that the senators would have to go to the bank regulators in San Francisco that had oversight jurisdiction for the bank. Gray did offer to set up a meeting between those regulators and the senators.[7]
On April 9, 1987, a two-hour meeting[4] with three members of the FHLBB San Francisco branch was held, again in DeConcini's office, to discuss the government's investigation of Lincoln.[11][7] Present were Cranston, DeConcini, Glenn, McCain, and additionally Riegle.[7] The regulators felt that the meeting was very unusual and that they were being pressured by a united front, as the senators presented their reasons for having the meeting.[7] DeConcini began the meeting by saying, "We wanted to meet with you because we have determined that potential actions of yours could injure a constituent."[13] McCain said, "One of our jobs as elected officials is to help constituents in a proper fashion. ACC [American Continental Corporation] is a big employer and important to the local economy.
The senators' initial defense of their actions rested on Keating being one of their constituents; McCain said, "I have done this kind of thing many, many times," and said the Lincoln case was like "helping the little lady who didn't get her Social Security."[35] Some of the five hired high-power Washington lawyers to represent them – including Charles Ruff for Glenn and John Dowd for McCain – while others feared that to do so would give the appearance their political careers were in jeopardy.

McCain and Keating had become personal friends following their initial contacts in 1981,[11] and McCain was the only one of the five with close social and personal ties to Keating.[42][43] Like DeConcini, McCain considered Keating a constituent as he lived in Arizona.[35] Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in political contributions from Keating and his associates.[44] In addition, McCain's wife Cindy McCain and her father Jim Hensley had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. McCain, his family, and their baby-sitter had made nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard Keating's jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain did not pay Keating (in the amount of $13,433) for some of the trips until years after they were taken, when he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln.[7][45] In 1989 Phoenix New Times writer Tom Fitzpatrick opined that McCain was the "most reprehensible" of the five senators.[46]

No Meara Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Palin is much less in bed with your "voodoo
> doctor" and "ALaskan seperatists" than Obama is
> with anti-Semites and racists like his 20 year
> pastor ( who christened his kids, married him and
> Michelle). Palin doesn't come across well on TV
> and I sometiomes question the pick, BUT she has
> had executive esperience, been accountable for a
> budget and tens of thousands of employees and
> dealt with more domestic issues than Obama has in
> his stepping stone climb to the top.


Ummmm. Let me see.

I have seen the 3-4 minutes of Rev Wright video, gleaned from over 20 years of sermons. And you know what? I did not see in Obama physically in any of it.

I have seen the vidio of Palins pastor, from a smaller town and closer knot community than chicago. He does use the word "witches" and I can see Palin in the video....

I have seen the video of the welcome AIP convention Palin did. I have yet to see a protional video Obama did for Rev Wright.

And being a fdormer Catholic, I know it was customary in some circles to have the same priest that married you then baptize your children. I am not speaking for the Rev Wright church, but asd a former catholic, I do know that church boundaries are determined by zip codes and you are supposed to go to the church within your boundary. It is one of those Pope/Bishop laws few people know about or really care. So you are taking what you would consider a good thing (beliefe in God, family values) and turn it around to be a bad thing.

Palin's pastor says goofy things, McCain's pastor says goofy things. Obama's pastor says goofy things. Let me know who your pastor is and I am sure I can find a few goofy things he or she said also.

But what really gets me is the executive experiance. If she does have "EE", then why does she not listen to what people have to say?

Look at the fruit fly story as a good example. Did she bother asking any scientist or high school student why we study fruit flies. Secret: the scientist and high school student would give you pretty much trhe same answer. And yet she declined to ask. Shooting from the hip is ok. Just be right! She is never right when she shoots from the hip.

The judge threw the suit out, so the issue is moot...

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081025/D941NCJG0.html

Radiophile Wrote:
> Palin's pastor says goofy things, McCain's pastor
> says goofy things. Obama's pastor says goofy
> things. Let me know who your pastor is and I am
> sure I can find a few goofy things he or she said
> also.


Ahh, kind of like the KKK said "goofy things"? First time I heard hateful, racist speech described as "goofy".

You know what? You are kinda goofy!

Frank Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> First time I heard hateful, racist speech
> described as "goofy".
>
If you listen to Mark Levin on WMAL you will hear a lot of racist and hateful speech that is just goofy.

FUNdamental Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Frank Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > First time I heard hateful, racist speech
> > described as "goofy".
> >
> If you listen to Mark Levin on WMAL you will hear
> a lot of racist and hateful speech that is just
> goofy.

Levin makes no false claims about where he is coming from.

Calling racist speech from Rev. Wright "goofy" is called "rationalization of an uncomfortable fact".

In order to racist..the statement must be false..I never heard a falsehood from Rev Wright's mouth. It was all uncomfortable to hear because of its truthfulness..not it's racism.

Vince, it is racist to operate a Church that caters to black people. I could post another link to their web site if you'd like. We might as well open churches that say they are unabashedly white and christian. That would cause a stink. But it is ok for black people? No. Racism is still racism - and it is wrong no matter who practices it.

Just because you can't admit it, doesn't mean it is not true. But you can keep trying to rationalize it, you still look like an idiot.

Obama was a Muslim http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/breaking-photo-documents-barry-soetoro-indonesian/

WashingToneLocian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The judge threw the suit out, so the issue is
> moot...
>
> http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081025/D941NCJG0
> .html



However, this one gets a hearing.............http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/10/28/ddn102808lawsuit.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=16

Do you realize that anyone can open up a wordpress account and post anything they want?? It's not like it's some sort of news site- anybody can post stuff on there.

And seriously, this whole muslim / non-citizen stuff is fucking really stupid already. No one but fringe, racist, whackos like you believe it.




Reston Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obama was a Muslim
> http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/breaki
> ng-photo-documents-barry-soetoro-indonesian/

Yeah, I have to agree with Meep on this one. I think this is a non-issue at this point, and just fanning the flames of people to do stupid things.

Not to mention, it makes McCain supporters look like complete losers. Seriously.

No, it makes people who obviously have nothing else better to do than track down pretty irrelevant facts look like complete losers. It happens on both sides of the aisle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2008 05:59PM by Registered Voter.

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