It's quite clear that believers are the types of people that can't get the big picture, because they lack sufficient mental bandwidth.

Believers tend to ignore the contradictions and absurdity of the bible when taken in whole form.

There are a lot of teachings in the bible that are not considered "Christian" today.

Believers possess a very powerful ability to rationalize the contradictions and fallacies of their religion.

The good news is that religious belief is dying out worldwide. As people advance in scientific understanding and education, they are discarding the beliefs of their primitive ancestors.

Let science and reason be your guide. The truth will lead you to happiness and contentment.

Says it all...
Attachments:

The biggest assholes are the Christians that go around and scare children with the thought that if they don't believe in a myth, they will be condemned to an eternity in hell. I think that's child abuse.

Anyone selling or pushing a lie is an asshole. Atheists aren't selling anything. We are just pointing out the lack of proof and evidence in the assertion that there is a God that loves you and will punish you if you don't get down on your knees, believe in him and worship him. Atheist seek the truth and reason. We don't like to live with the fear of false threats of punishment for eternity. Being an atheist is natural. If you hear or know of something that you know is false, you simply point it out.

Atheist don't believe in the supernatural, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, God, the devil, angles, etc..., because it clear that these types of characters and events are the creation of someones imagination.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atheist don't believe in the supernatural, Santa
> Claus, the Easter Bunny, God, the devil, angles,
> etc..., because it clear that these types of
> characters and events are the creation of someones
> imagination.

Bhuddists can be Atheists and still believe in reincarnation.
Attachments:

Invalid. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bhuddists can be Atheists and still believe in
> reincarnation.

No dude, atheist don't believe in reincarnation or any supernatural events or beings. If a Bhuddists believes in reincarnation, then I don't think he's a true atheist. Bhuddists may not believe in God, but they believe in other imaginary things that defy proof, evidence and reason. Atheist don't rely on faith. Bhuddists have faith in their beliefs, because there's no proof or evidence of their assertions.

A common misconception about atheism is that atheism is a religion. A religion is a set of beliefs that guides moral principals. Atheist usually have self generated morals, which tend to be similar, because they base it on common sense, philosophy, and law. Also Atheism is a form of not having a religion. That is like saying not skydiving is a hobby.
Another misconception about atheists is that they worship the devil. Although I do not represent atheism as a spokesperson, I can definitely say that you are not atheist if you simply worship the theistic satan. Satan is a result of God. If you do not think Satan has come from god, then you probably believe satan appeared out of nowhere similar to god, therefore contradicting the meaning of atheism.
Just don't be assholes atheists.

You are correct that atheist view the devil in the same way they view Gods. That is they don't exists. They, the devil and God, are the product of someones imagination that was a good story teller in acient times.

Atheist don't push or sell their beliefs on anyone, because we don't believe in myths, ghosts, Gods, etc... There's nothing to push or sell other than all these religious assertions of supernatural events and beings lack proof and evidence and are therefore false.

Atheists enjoy a good story or myth about the afterlife, but we don't believe it to be true.

I view the bible in the same way I view Greek mythology. It's an interesting collection of myths and beliefs of the gullible.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I view the bible in the same way I view Greek mythology. It's an interesting collection of myths and beliefs

The old and new testaments are the mythologies written by ancient Middle Eastern civilizations.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Invalid. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bhuddists can be Atheists and still believe in
> > reincarnation.
>
> No dude, atheist don't believe in reincarnation or
> any supernatural events or beings. If a Bhuddists
> believes in reincarnation, then I don't think he's
> a true atheist. Bhuddists may not believe in God,
> but they believe in other imaginary things that
> defy proof, evidence and reason. Atheist don't
> rely on faith. Bhuddists have faith in their
> beliefs, because there's no proof or evidence of
> their assertions.

You don't have a clue about what you're talking about here, and it would only take you a few seconds to educate yourself.

http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/buddhaatheism.htm

Buddhism is not about either believing or not believing in God or gods. Rather, the historical Buddha taught that believing in gods was not useful for those seeking to realize enlightenment. In other words, God is unnecessary in Buddhism. For this reason, Buddhism is more accurately called nontheistic than atheistic.

Invalid. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't have a clue about what you're talking
> about here, and it would only take you a few
> seconds to educate yourself.
>
> http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteaching
> s/a/buddhaatheism.htm
>
> Buddhism is not about either believing or not
> believing in God or gods. Rather, the historical
> Buddha taught that believing in gods was not
> useful for those seeking to realize enlightenment.
> In other words, God is unnecessary in Buddhism.
> For this reason, Buddhism is more accurately
> called nontheistic than atheistic.

Dude, atheist are not Buddhist and Buddhist are not atheist. From the link a Buddhist may or may not believe in a God, but God is not useful to Buddhists. Perhaps most, but not all buddhists, don't believe in God or gods. I can see where a buddhist could believe in the existence of a God, but could care less about that God. Buddhist are mellow people.

Atheist don't believe in any supernatural being or spirtual world.

Believing in something based on faith is not consistent with atheism. However, buddhists have faith in what they believe. If buddhists believe in reincarnation, then they must have faith in that, because there is not proof or evidence fo reincarnation.

Faith is for the gullible.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atheist don't believe in any supernatural being or
> spirtual world.

You truly are dense. You really should take the time to understand the word Atheist and the systems of belief that you're attacking.

Here's a definition, so you don't have to trouble yourself by looking it up:

a·the·ist [ey-thee-ist] noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

An Atheist does not believe that there's a sentient intelligence that created or is running things, but that DOES NOT preclude a belief in something that you might call "supernatural".

A Jedi could be an Atheist.

I am an Atheist -- I just happen to be an Atheist who's become sick of you waving the ignorance flag and claiming to speak for us all.

LackofFaith: typical atheist. Everyone who disagrees is an idiot.

Look people, stop engaging the troll. He repeats the same arguments over and over again, hoping that somebody will listen to him. He's like Barack Obama.

Young Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LackofFaith: typical atheist. Everyone who
> disagrees is an idiot.
>
> Look people, stop engaging the troll. He repeats
> the same arguments over and over again, hoping
> that somebody will listen to him. He's like Barack
> Obama.

Actually, I think it just became interesting.

Arguing with people in the hope of changing their belief is futile. On the other hand, stomping someone who gives Atheism a bad name could be considered productive.

I asked the guy nicely to back off of the "sheeple" crap. A page later, he calls me "sheeple material".

Invalid./Dinosaur Guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Young Curmudgeon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LackofFaith: typical atheist. Everyone who
> > disagrees is an idiot.
> >
> > Look people, stop engaging the troll. He
> repeats
> > the same arguments over and over again, hoping
> > that somebody will listen to him. He's like
> Barack
> > Obama.
>
> Actually, I think it just became interesting.
>
> Arguing with people in the hope of changing their
> belief is futile. On the other hand, stomping
> someone who gives Atheism a bad name could be
> considered productive.
>
> I asked the guy nicely to back off of the
> "sheeple" crap. A page later, he calls me
> "sheeple material".

My issue is not with atheists themselves. My issue is with the way in which a select few choose to conduct themselves (i.e. everyone who believes in God is deluded; only science is right, etc.,etc, etc.)

Young Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My issue is not with atheists themselves. My issue
> is with the way in which a select few choose to
> conduct themselves (i.e. everyone who believes in
> God is deluded; only science is right, etc.,etc,
> etc.)

Well, congrats... your point has been proven, and we have something in common.

I've been throwing stuff out in the hope that maybe people would mull it over, and make of it what they will.

The fake "LackOfFaith" was pretty obvious, and easy to weed out, but this guy is relentless, offensive, and claiming kinship with me just because of our belief is akin to the assholes on this site who claim that whites are the master race just because someone with the same skin color actually managed to do something impressive.

Invalid Dino Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> Well, congrats... your point has been proven, and
> we have something in common.
>
> I've been throwing stuff out in the hope that
> maybe people would mull it over, and make of it
> what they will.
>
> The fake "LackOfFaith" was pretty obvious, and
> easy to weed out, but this guy is relentless,
> offensive, and claiming kinship with me just
> because of our belief is akin to the assholes on
> this site who claim that whites are the master
> race just because someone with the same skin color
> actually managed to do something impressive.

Yucky24 has some valid points. He's out of his mind, but he's not terribly informed. As for atheism, my view is this: there are things that science simply doesn't explain particularly well or at all. I don't believe in the organized religion version of God. I believe that God is an extraordinarily powerful being that exists outside of the realms of space and time. I firmly believe that God simply doesn't care about humans.

If you're familiar with Deism, that's basically what I believe.

You people are deluded.

If you don't believe in a God, then you don't believe in any of their cohorts such as the devil, angels, fairies, etc...

The same applies to Greek, Roman, Egyptian gods and all their cohorts.

Why don't atheist believe? Because all indications point to the fact that these supreme beings are a product of some very good imaginations and story tellers. And, there's no proof or evidence that they have ever existed other than in the minds of story tellers, religious leaders, and the believers or sheeple. Believers or sheepls rely on faith as opposed to proof or evidence. You can't claim facts based on faith.

People, i.e. sheeple, believe theses stories and myths to be true.

Buddhists may or may not believe in a god or gods, but it isn't required of a buddhist. Some buddhist pray to their icons. That isnt' consisent with atheism.

Atheist don't pray or worship any mythical being.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You people are deluded.
>
> If you don't believe in a God, then you don't
> believe in any of their cohorts such as the devil,
> angels, fairies, etc...
>
> The same applies to Greek, Roman, Egyptian gods
> and all their cohorts.
>
> Why don't atheist believe? Because all indications
> point to the fact that these supreme beings are a
> product of some very good imaginations and story
> tellers. And, there's no proof or evidence that
> they have ever existed other than in the minds of
> story tellers, religious leaders, and the
> believers or sheeple. Believers or sheepls rely on
> faith as opposed to proof or evidence. You can't
> claim facts based on faith.
>
> People, i.e. sheeple, believe theses stories and
> myths to be true.
>
> Buddhists may or may not believe in a god or gods,
> but it isn't required of a buddhist. Some buddhist
> pray to their icons. That isnt' consisent with
> atheism.
>
> Atheist don't pray or worship any mythical being.

You must have had a very religious family member, which is why you've become so bitter with regard to religion.

They have deities in Buddhism and Hinduism. Where you have deities, there's usually a pecking order where one deity or god sits above all the rest. People offer prayers to deities devoted to special tasks. In Christianity, they would be like patron saints.

Young Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yucky24 has some valid points. He's out of his
> mind, but he's not terribly informed. As for
> atheism, my view is this: there are things that
> science simply doesn't explain particularly well
> or at all. I don't believe in the organized
> religion version of God. I believe that God is an
> extraordinarily powerful being that exists
> outside of the realms of space and time. I firmly
> believe that God simply doesn't care about humans.

I can see that... the quantum explanation of the "Big Bang" makes more sense to me than a supreme being, but even that has never really sat comfortably with me. There are some things in this world (or more accurately, outside of this world) that humans may never understand. I think I understand why people believe in God, too.

My big issue with religion is that with God on their side, people have found themselves capable of living with atrocities that would otherwise require the rarest sort of sociopath. I also remember (it really seems like only yesterday) when only the bravest Atheist would even consider speaking their beliefs aloud.

Even now, it's the only "religion" (it's really not a religion at all) that is persecuted with near-universal acceptance. You have to walk a mile in my shoes to understand why it's so important to us that government and religion remain two entirely different issues -- the Constitution exists to protect us from the "tyranny of the majority", and we need it more than most other groups.

> If you're familiar with Deism, that's basically
> what I believe.

Yes, I am. Before I really "lost my faith" entirely, I had gone in that direction myself. If there really is a God who put everything in motion, he seems to have had a pretty hands-off management style since then.

Note that I say "if", out of "respect", if you want to call it that. I really shouldn't be confused with an Agnostic... I was there once, too. For me, Atheism is the end of a long progression of contemplation, worry, and even fear. The day you wake up and you truly believe that "this is it", and as soon as the amino acids in your head stop knocking into each other, you'll cease to exist entirely is a pretty scary one. Finding purpose in life after that is a challenge of its own.

ex-Lester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They have deities in Buddhism and Hinduism.

On the Buddhism side, that's not necessarily true. Like Taoism, Buddhism is actual compatible with a lot of different philosophies, including Atheism.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you don't believe in a God, then you don't
> believe in any of their cohorts such as the devil,
> angels, fairies, etc...

Okay, I'm going to engage this....

There are Atheists who believe in something like what religous folks would call a "soul". I mean, you can feel "spirituality" at times, so it's not a hard leap to make.

I've talked to some that believe that once they die, they'll rejoin some sort of force or energy that exists around us. Maybe they won't have an individual awareness anymore, they find it impossible to believe that the spark which gives them life will just disappear.

So, I'd say that most Atheists don't believe in "ghosts", but there are many that do have faith in something that they can't actually prove. I call that "superstition", but I'm not going to tell them that they're wrong. And by the definition of the word, they're Atheists, just the same.

Young Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LackofFaith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You people are deluded.
>
> You must have had a very religious family member,
> which is why you've become so bitter with regard
> to religion.

This.

I'm really starting to wonder if LackofFaith isn't one of the "God haters" that I referenced earlier. I find those to be comical... you can't have a grudge against God without believing in him.

Young Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You must have had a very religious family member,
> which is why you've become so bitter with regard
> to religion.

It's not about being bitter; it's about being wrong. It's about being false. It's about a lie. It's about not being the truth.

I don't care about what others believe. It's the others that try to push or sell their beliefs on non-believers. It's about believers claiming non-beievers are condemned to hell for eternity. It's about the absurd belief that a child murderer can be granted eternal life in heaven, if he accepts Jesus Christ as his lord and savior prior to execution. What does that have to do with moral accountability? It makes moral accountability a joke. It takes a sheeple mind to accept that belief.

I'm relieved that a heaven doesn't exist where you could spend eternity with child murderers and molesters. Think about it sheeple. When you get to heaven, you'll be reunited with all the child molesters and murderers that "found" religion before they met their state imposed fate.

I could go on and on about the absurdity of religion and the belief in myths. I know believers are offended, just like children when they're told Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny don't exist.

ROFLMAO

Richard Dawkins: Militant atheism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGMqKCcN6A

Enjoy!

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't care about what others believe.

That's clearly wrong.

> It's the
> others that try to push or sell their beliefs on
> non-believers.

So, turn-about is fair play?

> It's about believers claiming
> non-beievers are condemned to hell for eternity.

They're free too. A Gypsy fortune-teller could pull the "Thinner" shit on me, and I wouldn't care. It's the way we're treated here and now that concerns me.

> It's about the absurd belief that a child murderer
> can be granted eternal life in heaven, if he
> accepts Jesus Christ as his lord and savior prior
> to execution. What does that have to do with moral
> accountability? It makes moral accountability a
> joke.

I agree with you there... the idea that anything can be forgiven (or worse, that there is someone who can absolve you of wrong acts) is dangerous.

> It takes a sheeple mind to accept that
> belief.

That again? I'm going to stop reading right here.

> I'm relieved that a heaven doesn't exist where you
> could spend eternity with child murderers and
> molesters. Think about it sheeple. When you get to
> heaven, you'll be reunited with all the child
> molesters and murderers that "found" religion
> before they met their state imposed fate.
>
> I could go on and on about the absurdity of
> religion and the belief in myths. I know believers
> are offended, just like children when they're told
> Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny don't exist.
>
> ROFLMAO

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's quite clear that believers are the types of
> people that can't get the big picture, because
> they lack sufficient mental bandwidth.
>
> Believers tend to ignore the contradictions and
> absurdity of the bible when taken in whole form.
>
> There are a lot of teachings in the bible that are
> not considered "Christian" today.
>
> Believers possess a very powerful ability to
> rationalize the contradictions and fallacies of
> their religion.
>
> The good news is that religious belief is dying
> out worldwide. As people advance in scientific
> understanding and education, they are discarding
> the beliefs of their primitive ancestors.
>
> Let science and reason be your guide. The truth
> will lead you to happiness and contentment.


Estimated 100 million dead thanks to the anti-God regimes over the past 100 years. Over 20 million dead thanks to the Godless Nazi regime of Germany. The track record of Godless leaders is pretty abysmal in recent history. Society without God does not evolve, it appears to devolve. Great news huh?

Let's cut the chase: you are convinced that there is no God. Without a shread of scientific evidence, you claim there is no God. When asked where did everything come from, you'll provide scientific theories until you run out of those and then you'll provide scientific hypothesis until you run out of those. Eventually, you get to, "I don't know, but it wasn't God." When asked how you know it wasn't God, you'll offer ,b>nothing but your own belief. And at that point, you're explanation is worse than that of believers, because you offer nothing. It keeps happening on this board over and over again in thread after thread because, in the end, all you offer is nothing.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You people are deluded.
>
> If you don't believe in a God, then you don't
> believe in any of their cohorts such as the devil,
> angels, fairies, etc...
>
> The same applies to Greek, Roman, Egyptian gods
> and all their cohorts.
>
> Why don't atheist believe? Because all indications
> point to the fact that these supreme beings are a
> product of some very good imaginations and story
> tellers. And, there's no proof or evidence that
> they have ever existed other than in the minds of
> story tellers, religious leaders, and the
> believers or sheeple. Believers or sheepls rely on
> faith as opposed to proof or evidence. You can't
> claim facts based on faith.
>
> People, i.e. sheeple, believe theses stories and
> myths to be true.
>
> Buddhists may or may not believe in a god or gods,
> but it isn't required of a buddhist. Some buddhist
> pray to their icons. That isnt' consisent with
> atheism.
>
> Atheist don't pray or worship any mythical being.


You seem to worship science. You cling to it just as some cling to their Bibles. Science is a way to explain or understand things. You put way to much faith in science as the end-all and be-all of everything. Only zealots think that. I've worked with radical scientists. They are frequently marginalized and as often as not, allow their zealotry to undermind their work. Just as you let your zealotry undermind your posts.

Trooth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> > to the Godless Nazi regime of Germany.

Hitler claimed to be a catholic and referred to god in public speeches. If you want to see the absurdity and ugliness of human religion, WWII Germany is a good place to start. Hitler stoked the Middle Age fears and superstitions against Jews and was appeased by the Pope during the holocaust- the Vatican publicly wished Adolph Hitler a happy birthday every year he was in power. And even if Hitler was secretly an atheist, it's safe to assume that millions of religious Germans served duty in the Nazi war machine or turned a blind eye to the horrors committed against non-Christians.

WWII had nothing to do with lack the lack of belief in dieties.

God is an absentee landlord.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trooth. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > > to the Godless Nazi regime of Germany.
>
> Hitler claimed to be a catholic and referred to
> god in public speeches. If you want to see the
> absurdity and ugliness of human religion, WWII
> Germany is a good place to start. Hitler stoked
> the Middle Age fears and superstitions against
> Jews and was appeased by the Pope during the
> holocaust- the Vatican publicly wished Adolph
> Hitler a happy birthday every year he was in
> power. And even if Hitler was secretly an
> atheist, it's safe to assume that millions of
> religious Germans served duty in the Nazi war
> machine or turned a blind eye to the horrors
> committed against non-Christians.
>
> WWII had nothing to do with lack the lack of
> belief in dieties.


Anyone can claim to be anything in public. Hitler believed in the occult and rejected Judeo-Christian doctrine. It is well understood by historians that Hilter's private views was that of an atheist who, at first used the Church to further his political goals and, after seizing power, showed disdain for Christianity and took over the churches in Nazi terroritories to ensure that they would become messengers of Nazi propaganda, especially the anti-Semetic themes. Hilter defined true Christianity as a theology founded by Jesus, an Aryan freedom fighter seeking to rid Israel of Jews.

Otherwise, your post indicates that you missed my point regardless.

Regardless of how stupid, dopey and superstitious many religious folks are- religion is a threat to centralized governments.

The Bolsheviks in Russia and the Anarchists/Communists in the Spanish Civil War are great examples of those who tried to elevate belief in government as the highest moral plane. To me that is far more of a threat to freewill than living around some suburban Ned Flanders who takes his kids to Sunday School.

If you ever talk to anyone who grew up in the USSR before 1990, it is pretty interesting the level of open hostility to religion. I don't oppose independent minds questioning the validity of faith, but when it comes from government, the motivations become obvious.

We are stuck with our homegrown dummies in America who believe in Jerry Falwell, Wicca and psychic hotlines. Why import a new set of dummies who believe in sharia law and female circumcision?
Attachments:

Trying to blame wars and mass killings on atheism requies a selective memory of history. Many wars were fought over religious beliefs in addition to the normal reasons for conquest; land, wealth, resources, etc...

An atheist is not about killing or the absence of morals. It's just the lack of belief in a God or gods. Contrary to popular christian propaganda, human morals are not based on the bible. The bible merely memorializes natural human morals self evident to any society.

If fact, the bible establishes some very ruthless punishments for what we would consider nothing today; such as stoning a person for working on the sabbeth. You've got to be very selective when you base your moral code on the bible.

Government neutrality about religion is one thing, government MANDATED atheism is something else.
Attachments:

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Government neutrality about religion is one thing,
> government MANDATED atheism is something else.

In the original game of Clue, "Mr. Green" was actually called "Reverend Green". The name was changed because they felt Americans would be upset at the idea of a priest being a murderer.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trying to blame wars and mass killings on atheism
> requies a selective memory of history. Many wars
> were fought over religious beliefs in addition to
> the normal reasons for conquest; land, wealth,
> resources, etc...
>
> An atheist is not about killing or the absence of
> morals. It's just the lack of belief in a God or
> gods. Contrary to popular christian propaganda,
> human morals are not based on the bible. The bible
> merely memorializes natural human morals self
> evident to any society.
>
> If fact, the bible establishes some very ruthless
> punishments for what we would consider nothing
> today; such as stoning a person for working on the
> sabbeth. You've got to be very selective when you
> base your moral code on the bible.


We've addressed the stoning issue. Please read the post above. It's clear on the issue.

The point is that Godless and anti-God societies have a horrendous record of "natural human morals". Rather than the utopia that you try and paint, Godlessness has led to decay, not renewal. America was at its peak in 1965. Since then, we've embraced secular humanism and seen our society fall apart. Almost ½ of the babies born today are born to single mothers. Poverty is at record numbers. Our economy is run one the dual engines of greed and envy. Deviant sexual behavior is not only embraced, it's now being encouraged. Drug use by minors is approaching record numbers. Our schools are failing to teach kids basic math, science or problem solving. Kids spend all day killing each other on TV screens in realistic video games until they more frail amongst us can no longer tell the difference between reality and "entertainment". Movies that would have hard R ratings 10 or 12 years ago are now PG as the courseness in our society grows.

You crow about how advanced we become the more we flee God. The evidence is totally opposite of that. It was the churches that led the last great cultural awakening in the US in the mid-1960's (Civil Rights).

1930's Germany showed us what human morals leads to. 1930's Russia showed us what human morals leads to. 1970's Cambodia showed us what human morals leads to. 1980's China showed us what human morals leads to. Where are these great Godless societies that you hold so highly? Nowhere.

Does anyone see the disparity in the "proof" argument?

Theists believe in something they can't prove, then alter the entire course of their lives in response. They pray, they preach, they labor, they sacrifice, they condemn others, and they align themselves with a moral code, and they expect an infinite reward based on something for which they have no evidence.

Atheists have no evidence either, so they live their lives in a manner that just comes naturally to them.

Which reaction seems rational?

Invalid Dino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atheists have no evidence either, so they live
> their lives in a manner that just comes naturally
> to them.

It's "natural" for atheists to harass and denigrate all people of faith?

Glad we got that cleared up.

I think it's the norm that Christians and other believers have despised atheists for the fact that they just refuse to believe in the big myth.

The atheist start all the big deadly wars, because they are godless argument is a big red herring. The prisons are full of Christians (to include preachers that murder their wives) and, Christians start unjustified wars as in the God loving George W Bush example. Death by stoning is biblical justice for disobeying the imaginary God. Other religions practice extreme justice as well even now. You can get your head or other body part cut off for minor offenses in the name of God.

Commie governments don't like any church, because they don't want another voice to influence the people and counter their propaganda. They don't like a free press either. It all makes sense if you're a dictator. They may tolerate the church, but certainly don't make them feel welcome.

The ranks of non-believers are growing as science advances and replaces shaman/church knowledge with scientific knowledge. Religion is becoming irrelevant.

Given time, people will discard the myths of their ancestors. The sun doesn't revolve around the flat earth any more.

LackofFaith Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
> The atheist start all the big deadly wars, because
> they are godless argument is a big red herring.

People of faith often claim that the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were the inevitable product of unbelief. The problem with fascism and communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the problem is that they are too much like religions. Such regimes are dogmatic to the core and generally give rise to personality cults that are indistinguishable from cults of religious hero worship. Auschwitz, the gulag and the killing fields were not examples of what happens when human beings reject religious dogma; they are examples of political, racial and nationalistic dogma run amok. There is no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too reasonable.

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Invalid Dino Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Atheists have no evidence either, so they live
> > their lives in a manner that just comes
> naturally
> > to them.
>
> It's "natural" for atheists to harass and
> denigrate all people of faith?
>
> Glad we got that cleared up.

No Mr. Wales, it's not. On the other hand, it's common for those with a religious leaning, whenever someone says anything that goes against their faith, to claim harassment.

"LackOfFaith" is a bit of a standout, but mine was a philosophical question. Instead of responding with a thoughtful reply, folks like yourself, Gregory, scream that they're being denigrated. That doesn't reply to all believers, but the loudest ones (who usually have the least to say) tend to believe that they speak for all.
Attachments:

lightshine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Government neutrality about religion is one
> thing,
> > government MANDATED atheism is something else.
>
> In the original game of Clue, "Mr. Green" was
> actually called "Reverend Green". The name was
> changed because they felt Americans would be upset
> at the idea of a priest being a murderer.

That is an example of bowing to cultural tradition. The issue would be the level of the outcry.

"Tradition is Democracy of the Dead"

I think it was Nietzsche or some other quasi-fascist philosopher who said this, but it makes shitloads of sense.

What about the creationist? They are Christian extremist that attempt to degrade science education by attacking the well established theory of evolution in the interest of religious indoctrination of children.

Christians realize that scientific advances in our understanding of life and our environment are a threat to their notions of a Supreme Being, creator and designer of life and the universe. The understanding of evolution is essential to study of biology and advancement in the field of medicine.

You have the young earth creationists that believe the earth is only about six to ten thousand years old. They also believe that man and the dinosaurs coexisted for a time. ROFLMAO

I find Christians and believers to be very offensive to free thinkers, reason, and scientific advancement. Their defensive arguments are void of logic and facts. Are these the types of people you want educating the youth?

It’s well past the time that non-believers need to take a stand and put this nonsense in its place and recognize these believers for what they actually are as a threat to the advancements of science and medicine.

For those of you that claim the bible is the source of human morality, attached is a chart of biblical punishments for violations of the 10 commandments. I don't see how anyone could claim that the bible is a good standard for morality. It appears the "good book" prescribes, with a few exceptions, capital punishment for violations of eight of the Ten Commandments. Of course, modern day Christians "cherry pick" from the good book to claim that God loves you, but will punish you severely if you violate His Ten Commandments or don't worship Him at the level He determines is adequate in which case you will spend eternity in Hell. Hitler and Stalin appear to be compassionate dictators by biblical standards. Perhaps they were using the bible as a guide to being a God like dictator.
Attachments:

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> that the bible is a good standard for morality.

Religionists using the ten commandments as a basis for morality is a joke. There are only really 3 that address moral behavior; don't lie, don't steal, and don't murder.

You shall have no other gods before me, and don't take My name in vain. And don't covet- don't you even dare to think an envious thought or you'll be smited. It sounds like it was written by a very vain, jealous dictator and his thought-police.

I don't get it.

All the goats in the city must be killed just because someone worshipped a rock?

God wants recognition, and yet is unavailable for advice or assistance?

God forgive us! We tend to recognize things we can see, feel or hear.

Excepting our delusional and hallucinating brothers and sisters, of course.

But they more likely to see snakes than to see Jesus!

KJV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LackofFaith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > The atheist start all the big deadly wars,
> because
> > they are godless argument is a big red herring.
>
> People of faith often claim that the crimes of
> Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were the
> inevitable product of unbelief. The problem with
> fascism and communism, however, is not that they
> are too critical of religion; the problem is that
> they are too much like religions. Such regimes are
> dogmatic to the core and generally give rise to
> personality cults that are indistinguishable from
> cults of religious hero worship. Auschwitz, the
> gulag and the killing fields were not examples of
> what happens when human beings reject religious
> dogma; they are examples of political, racial and
> nationalistic dogma run amok. There is no society
> in human history that ever suffered because its
> people became too reasonable.


I can't speak for what "people of faith often claim" and your observation wasn't my point anyway. My point is that, counter to the anti-Godists here who act like religion is the root of all evil, there is no evidence that any society that has rejected God has been any better than any society that has not. and recent history (past 100 years) shows that those anti-God societies are far worse. Human morality is tranisitory while Biblical morality is not (past the teachings of Jesus in the NT). And I suspect that is the problem a lot of God-deniers have with Him in the first place. No one likes to be judged.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about the creationist? They are Christian
> extremist that attempt to degrade science
> education by attacking the well established theory
> of evolution in the interest of religious
> indoctrination of children.
>
> Christians realize that scientific advances in our
> understanding of life and our environment are a
> threat to their notions of a Supreme Being,
> creator and designer of life and the universe. The
> understanding of evolution is essential to study
> of biology and advancement in the field of
> medicine.
>
> You have the young earth creationists that believe
> the earth is only about six to ten thousand years
> old. They also believe that man and the dinosaurs
> coexisted for a time. ROFLMAO
>
> I find Christians and believers to be very
> offensive to free thinkers, reason, and scientific
> advancement. Their defensive arguments are void of
> logic and facts. Are these the types of people you
> want educating the youth?
>
> It’s well past the time that non-believers need
> to take a stand and put this nonsense in its place
> and recognize these believers for what they
> actually are as a threat to the advancements of
> science and medicine.


You are truly a bain to real science. Look at your words. Offended by what someone thinks? You spout science as if that equates to logic. You don't seem to know what logic is. Your posts are often emotional, and almost never logical. That is typical of the acolytes of the religion of science. True scientists shudder at people like that.

Invalid Dino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Invalid Dino Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Atheists have no evidence either, so they
> live
> > > their lives in a manner that just comes
> > naturally
> > > to them.
> >
> > It's "natural" for atheists to harass and
> > denigrate all people of faith?
> >
> > Glad we got that cleared up.
>
> No Mr. Wales, it's not. On the other hand, it's
> common for those with a religious leaning,
> whenever someone says anything that goes against
> their faith, to claim harassment.
>
> "LackOfFaith" is a bit of a standout, but mine was
> a philosophical question. Instead of responding
> with a thoughtful reply, folks like yourself,
> Gregory, scream that they're being denigrated.
> That doesn't reply to all believers, but the
> loudest ones (who usually have the least to say)
> tend to believe that they speak for all.


A vocal, radicalized minority forcing their views on the majority is no less oppressive than the other way around. And that is what we have now - a radical minority that has seized control of our educational system and much of the media, trying to shout down and marginalize the majority. It's 1969 all over again - the beginning of the great US decline.

Trooth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A vocal, radicalized minority forcing their views
> on the majority is no less oppressive than the
> other way around. And that is what we have now -
> a radical minority that has seized control of our
> educational system and much of the media, trying
> to shout down and marginalize the majority. It's
> 1969 all over again - the beginning of the great
> US decline.

Yes... we need to have Constitutional protection from Science!

Trooth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Invalid Dino Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vexxxed Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Invalid Dino Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Atheists have no evidence either, so they
> > live
> > > > their lives in a manner that just comes
> > > naturally
> > > > to them.
> > >
> > > It's "natural" for atheists to harass and
> > > denigrate all people of faith?
> > >
> > > Glad we got that cleared up.
> >
> > No Mr. Wales, it's not. On the other hand,
> it's
> > common for those with a religious leaning,
> > whenever someone says anything that goes
> against
> > their faith, to claim harassment.
> >
> > "LackOfFaith" is a bit of a standout, but mine
> was
> > a philosophical question. Instead of
> responding
> > with a thoughtful reply, folks like yourself,
> > Gregory, scream that they're being denigrated.
> > That doesn't reply to all believers, but the
> > loudest ones (who usually have the least to
> say)
> > tend to believe that they speak for all.
>
>
> A vocal, radicalized minority forcing their views
> on the majority is no less oppressive than the
> other way around. And that is what we have now -
> a radical minority that has seized control of our
> educational system and much of the media, trying
> to shout down and marginalize the majority. It's
> 1969 all over again - the beginning of the great
> US decline.

Is your complaint in the fact that most school systems don't teach creationism, or that they won't sponsor prayers?

I'm all for teaching ALL of the ideas because I think it's good to actually understand other cultures rather than picking it up second-hand from ignorants, but you folks will get your panties in a wad as soon as someone wants to give all of the religious theories equal time.

In fact, I'm sure you'll get all pissy as soon as they refer to your god as a theory, so maybe it's best to teach that at home?

I know I'm being a touch sarcastic right now, but really, I would genuinely like to understand what is that you're asking for, and how you feel that you've been slighted. I'll venture to guess that it doesn't include faiths other than your own.
Attachments:

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For those of you that claim the bible is the
> source of human morality, attached is a chart of
> biblical punishments for violations of the 10
> commandments. I don't see how anyone could claim
> that the bible is a good standard for morality. It
> appears the "good book" prescribes, with a few
> exceptions, capital punishment for violations of
> eight of the Ten Commandments. Of course, modern
> day Christians "cherry pick" from the good book to
> claim that God loves you, but will punish you
> severely if you violate His Ten Commandments or
> don't worship Him at the level He determines is
> adequate in which case you will spend eternity in
> Hell. Hitler and Stalin appear to be compassionate
> dictators by biblical standards. Perhaps they were
> using the bible as a guide to being a God like
> dictator.

Actually, modern day Christians continuously pervert the meaning of the Bible. It's not "follow the commandments or go to hell." It's "TRY to follow the commandments and live a good life." You don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved. In fact, Judaism doesn't believe in hell. Jewish tradition provides for human fallibility.

Young Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, modern day Christians continuously
> pervert the meaning of the Bible. It's not "follow
> the commandments or go to hell." It's "TRY to
> follow the commandments and live a good life." You
> don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved. In
> fact, Judaism doesn't believe in hell. Jewish
> tradition provides for human fallibility.

Yeah, and we know how much respect Christians tend to show the Jews. (Overly broad statement, I know, but the vocal ones seem to set the tone.)

You're absolutely right, though... a lot of people don't realize that their Hell is only 2,000 years old. For many years, I wondered what sense it made that all of the Cavement were damned.

But, it all depends upon who you talk to. Many sects of Christianity profess that a good life doesn't count for anything if you don't accept Jesus as your savior, and Baptists add the whole dip-in-the-water requirement, too.

Trooth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point is that Godless and anti-God societies
> have a horrendous record of "natural human
> morals". Rather than the utopia that you try and
> paint, Godlessness has led to decay, not renewal.
> America was at its peak in 1965. Since then,
> we've embraced secular humanism and seen our
> society fall apart. Almost ½ of the babies born
> today are born to single mothers. Poverty is at
> record numbers. Our economy is run one the dual
> engines of greed and envy. Deviant sexual
> behavior is not only embraced, it's now being
> encouraged. Drug use by minors is approaching
> record numbers. Our schools are failing to teach
> kids basic math, science or problem solving. Kids
> spend all day killing each other on TV screens in
> realistic video games until they more frail
> amongst us can no longer tell the difference
> between reality and "entertainment". Movies that
> would have hard R ratings 10 or 12 years ago are
> now PG as the courseness in our society grows.
>
> You crow about how advanced we become the more we
> flee God. The evidence is totally opposite of
> that. It was the churches that led the last great
> cultural awakening in the US in the mid-1960's
> (Civil Rights).
>
> 1930's Germany showed us what human morals leads
> to. 1930's Russia showed us what human morals
> leads to. 1970's Cambodia showed us what human
> morals leads to. 1980's China showed us what
> human morals leads to. Where are these great
> Godless societies that you hold so highly?
> Nowhere.

Being an atheist doesn't mean you are pro-gay-rights or gay marriage. There are Christian faggots as well as anti-gay atheists.

The facts about Germany are that a Christian nation, 1930s and 40s Germany, unleashed the greatest war machine in the history of the world. Yes, most of the members of the German armed forces, the ones who prosecuted the war and committed the atrocities were good Christians. The Christian religion was not out lawed in Germany. Christians don't like Jews, because they claim that it was the Jews that killed Jesus. I don't think many Christians were supporting the Jewish people in NAZI Germany. I would even go as far to say that NAZI Germany was more Christian than present day America.

Do you think fear of an imaginary God or belief in acient myths keeps people in line? I think the capital punishments for violation of certain provisions of the Ten Commandments probably had something to do with the early Christian consolidation of the religious market. There's nothing like the treat of death to aid in the control of hearts and minds.

YC Is Right Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But, it all depends upon who you talk to. Many
> sects of Christianity profess that a good life
> doesn't count for anything if you don't accept
> Jesus as your savior, and Baptists add the whole
> dip-in-the-water requirement, too.

The issue with a lot of these "born-again" Christians is the complete ignorance of WHAT type of life a person leads. For example, how in the hell does a serial killer who accepts Jesus get into Heaven, but a Jew who has spent his entire life teaching people God's ways get damned?

God gave us brains for a reason, people. Use them and expose evangelicals for the frauds they are.

Trooth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's 1969 all over again - the beginning of the great US decline.

also known as "the year Trooth grew bitter about life and became an old codger".

I disagree with him on more things than not, but Young Curmudgeon actually seems to have his shit together here.

I might have to start reading his posts again.

The truth is powerful and cannot be suppressed for long. In the end, the truth prevails.

That fact is why atheism is on the rise, or religion is on the decline. People have had time to reflect on the absurdity and contradictions of their Christian teachings.

The fact that a Bronze Age book of myths, with dated values and harsh punishments would form the foundation of a religion, accepted by many in modern times is surprising, yet telling that people haven’t changed that much in the last two thousand years. Perhaps it will take evolution a bit more time for humans to develop a population with more people who think like atheist; people with more powerful analysis skills.

As people slowly note that religious claims are refuted by science, they realize that their religious beliefs are not based on the truth. And, if religious beliefs are fallible, then they shouldn't be the types of beliefs that you live by. To live a good life, you need to seek the truth and live the truth.

There are a few studies that indicate a correlation between intelligence and propensity for religious beliefs. Not surprisingly, high propensity for religion is linked with lower values of intelligence. The converse is true as well; high values of intelligence is link to low propensity towards religious beliefs and activities. A survey of highly regarded scientists finds an almost exclusive group of atheists.

So, if you are weak minded you tend to rely on religious beliefs for strength. If you are strong minded, you don't need a crutch to live life to its fullest.

Invalid Dino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vexxxed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Invalid Dino Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Atheists have no evidence either, so they
> live
> > > their lives in a manner that just comes
> > naturally
> > > to them.
> >
> > It's "natural" for atheists to harass and
> > denigrate all people of faith?
> >
> > Glad we got that cleared up.
>
> No Mr. Wales, it's not. On the other hand, it's
> common for those with a religious leaning,
> whenever someone says anything that goes against
> their faith, to claim harassment.
>
> "LackOfFaith" is a bit of a standout, but mine was
> a philosophical question. Instead of responding
> with a thoughtful reply, folks like yourself,
> Gregory, scream that they're being denigrated.
> That doesn't reply to all believers, but the
> loudest ones (who usually have the least to say)
> tend to believe that they speak for all.


1. You were speaking for "all", not me.
2. LackOfFaith has offered nothing but criticism towards all believers in this thread, using the stance that they are the true authority of what is accurate and what isn't.
3. Everyone has their own belief of what is and isn't in this world. What I believe is of no consequence to anyone else but me. However, I've never felt the need to grand stand on a public forum and enlighten the masses as to how stupid they are. Which brings me to a question for all. What are you afraid of? If there is no god, why all the fear of he which does not exist?
4. Anything you may or may not have had to add to this discussion became null and void as soon as you referred to me as being someone I'm not.

There are three categories of people.

1. Those that possess the intelligence to come to the correct answer on their own.

2. Those that need assistance to come to the correct answer.

3. Those that lack the intelligence to understand the correct answer, even with assistance.

To which group do you belong?

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are three categories of people.
>
> 1. Those that possess the intelligence to come to
> the correct answer on their own.
>
> 2. Those that need assistance to come to the
> correct answer.
>
> 3. Those that lack the intelligence to understand
> the correct answer, even with assistance.
>
> To which group do you belong?


4. Those that graduated from high school/college a long time ago and actually have to live in the real world.

What Do You Want? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trooth. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Invalid Dino Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Vexxxed Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Invalid Dino Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Atheists have no evidence either, so they
> > > live
> > > > > their lives in a manner that just comes
> > > > naturally
> > > > > to them.
> > > >
> > > > It's "natural" for atheists to harass and
> > > > denigrate all people of faith?
> > > >
> > > > Glad we got that cleared up.
> > >
> > > No Mr. Wales, it's not. On the other hand,
> > it's
> > > common for those with a religious leaning,
> > > whenever someone says anything that goes
> > against
> > > their faith, to claim harassment.
> > >
> > > "LackOfFaith" is a bit of a standout, but
> mine
> > was
> > > a philosophical question. Instead of
> > responding
> > > with a thoughtful reply, folks like yourself,
> > > Gregory, scream that they're being denigrated.
>
> > > That doesn't reply to all believers, but the
> > > loudest ones (who usually have the least to
> > say)
> > > tend to believe that they speak for all.
> >
> >
> > A vocal, radicalized minority forcing their
> views
> > on the majority is no less oppressive than the
> > other way around. And that is what we have now
> -
> > a radical minority that has seized control of
> our
> > educational system and much of the media,
> trying
> > to shout down and marginalize the majority.
> It's
> > 1969 all over again - the beginning of the
> great
> > US decline.
>
> Is your complaint in the fact that most school
> systems don't teach creationism, or that they
> won't sponsor prayers?
>
> I'm all for teaching ALL of the ideas because I
> think it's good to actually understand other
> cultures rather than picking it up second-hand
> from ignorants, but you folks will get your
> panties in a wad as soon as someone wants to give
> all of the religious theories equal time.
>
> In fact, I'm sure you'll get all pissy as soon as
> they refer to your god as a theory, so maybe it's
> best to teach that at home?
>
> I know I'm being a touch sarcastic right now, but
> really, I would genuinely like to understand what
> is that you're asking for, and how you feel that
> you've been slighted. I'll venture to guess that
> it doesn't include faiths other than your own.


Atheists are offended at the slightest mention of God. They are the ones who "get all prissy". whining, and then suing because someone might pray at an event that they're attending.

Your post is full of assumptions and hyperbole, sprinkled with the typical condesending attitude of rabid anti-Godists. Atheists are entitled to their opinions. They are entitled to express their opinions. But they are only opinions and it drives them nuts when someone points that fact out and has a different opinion (in general). The opinions and rights of an atheist are no more valid or worthy of consideration by society than someone who belives in and worships God. I don't care what you believe. I don't neccessarily think someone is smarter or dumber if you do or don't believe in God. There is a God and there are sound and solid logical arguments to support that position. There is no scientific evidence to support the position that God does not exist, yet anti-Godists somehow believe that there is.

Young Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LackofFaith Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For those of you that claim the bible is the
> > source of human morality, attached is a chart
> of
> > biblical punishments for violations of the 10
> > commandments. I don't see how anyone could
> claim
> > that the bible is a good standard for morality.
> It
> > appears the "good book" prescribes, with a few
> > exceptions, capital punishment for violations
> of
> > eight of the Ten Commandments. Of course,
> modern
> > day Christians "cherry pick" from the good book
> to
> > claim that God loves you, but will punish you
> > severely if you violate His Ten Commandments or
> > don't worship Him at the level He determines is
> > adequate in which case you will spend eternity
> in
> > Hell. Hitler and Stalin appear to be
> compassionate
> > dictators by biblical standards. Perhaps they
> were
> > using the bible as a guide to being a God like
> > dictator.
>
> Actually, modern day Christians continuously
> pervert the meaning of the Bible. It's not "follow
> the commandments or go to hell." It's "TRY to
> follow the commandments and live a good life." You
> don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved. In
> fact, Judaism doesn't believe in hell. Jewish
> tradition provides for human fallibility.


Actually, modern day (and all who came before) Christians don't believe that you have to follow the 10 commandments or go to hell. You do have to be saved through Jesus to be get into Heaven. Being saved through Jesus means becoming a disciple of his teachings, asking Him to intervene and to try to live a Christ-centered life. You are grossly mistaking what Christianity is all about. Unfortunately, so do many "Christians". There is no religion more accommodating of human fallibilities.

You can believe in God, gods, Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, fairies (tooth & others), angels (guardian & Charlie's), Elvis is alive, etc..., but you must acknowledge that that belief is based on faith alone and faith is not proof of anything being real. Faith without proof or evidence is nothing more than a hunch. A lot of hunches are wrong.

If you don't believe in God or gods, then you are an atheist. That is a very logical position to take, because even the Pope acknowledges that there is no proof of God. Anyone that claims proof is a liar. Anyone that claims the existences of God, because no one can prove he doesn’t exist is a fool not intelligent enough to even have a conversation with. The argument that you can’t prove something doesn’t exist is a logic fallacy. No proof of a crime equals no crime. It’s as simple as that.

If you have intelligence, practice reason, and demand proof, then you are the best example of the culmination of billions of years of evolution.

The link between intelligence and religion is well established. A high level of intelligence leads to a low inclination towards religious beliefs. A low level of intelligence leads to a high inclination towards religious beliefs and predication in cults.

Being aware of the intelligence-religion relationship may be enough to cause some people in the middle of the bell curve to wake up and strive to move to the rights side of the curve.

Enjoy life people, because there is no God and Elvis is dead.

Trooth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no scientific evidence to
> support the position that God does not exist, yet
> anti-Godists somehow believe that there is.

There is no scientific evidence to support the position that Zeus does not exist.

Trooth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no scientific evidence to
> support the position that God does not exist, yet
> anti-Godists somehow believe that there is.

There is no scientific evidence to support the position that ghosts do not exist.

Trooth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no scientific evidence to
> support the position that God does not exist, yet
> anti-Godists somehow believe that there is.

There is no scientific evidence to support the position that pro-wrestling isn't real.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The truth is powerful and cannot be suppressed for
> long. In the end, the truth prevails.
>
> That fact is why atheism is on the rise, or
> religion is on the decline. People have had time
> to reflect on the absurdity and contradictions of
> their Christian teachings.
>
> The fact that a Bronze Age book of myths, with
> dated values and harsh punishments would form the
> foundation of a religion, accepted by many in
> modern times is surprising, yet telling that
> people haven’t changed that much in the last two
> thousand years. Perhaps it will take evolution a
> bit more time for humans to develop a population
> with more people who think like atheist; people
> with more powerful analysis skills.
>
> As people slowly note that religious claims are
> refuted by science, they realize that their
> religious beliefs are not based on the truth. And,
> if religious beliefs are fallible, then they
> shouldn't be the types of beliefs that you live
> by. To live a good life, you need to seek the
> truth and live the truth.
>
> There are a few studies that indicate a
> correlation between intelligence and propensity
> for religious beliefs. Not surprisingly, high
> propensity for religion is linked with lower
> values of intelligence. The converse is true as
> well; high values of intelligence is link to low
> propensity towards religious beliefs and
> activities. A survey of highly regarded scientists
> finds an almost exclusive group of atheists.
>
> So, if you are weak minded you tend to rely on
> religious beliefs for strength. If you are strong
> minded, you don't need a crutch to live life to
> its fullest.


And yet Islam is on the rise and evangelical churches have growing numbers, not declining. Facts are, once again, not on your side.

Your misunderstanding on religion is apparent. The enlightenment and self-awareness that one achieves by knowing God is awesome. Your self-absorbed sense of superiority demonstrates a complete lack of self-awareness or enlightment but does show a possibility of Asbergers.

Vexxxed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Invalid Dino Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vexxxed Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Invalid Dino Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Atheists have no evidence either, so they
> > live
> > > > their lives in a manner that just comes
> > > naturally
> > > > to them.
> > >
> > > It's "natural" for atheists to harass and
> > > denigrate all people of faith?
> > >
> > > Glad we got that cleared up.
> >
> > No Mr. Wales, it's not. On the other hand,
> it's
> > common for those with a religious leaning,
> > whenever someone says anything that goes
> against
> > their faith, to claim harassment.
> >
> > "LackOfFaith" is a bit of a standout, but mine
> was
> > a philosophical question. Instead of
> responding
> > with a thoughtful reply, folks like yourself,
> > Gregory, scream that they're being denigrated.
> > That doesn't reply to all believers, but the
> > loudest ones (who usually have the least to
> say)
> > tend to believe that they speak for all.
>
>
> 1. You were speaking for "all", not me.

How so?

> 2. LackOfFaith has offered nothing but criticism
> towards all believers in this thread, using the
> stance that they are the true authority of what is
> accurate and what isn't.

Agreed.

> 3. Everyone has their own belief of what is and
> isn't in this world. What I believe is of no
> consequence to anyone else but me. However, I've
> never felt the need to grand stand on a public
> forum and enlighten the masses as to how stupid
> they are. Which brings me to a question for all.
> What are you afraid of? If there is no god, why
> all the fear of he which does not exist?

Where's the fear? The only fear I have is of the mindless mob. But what you right is ironic, since it's exactly what you are doing.

> 4. Anything you may or may not have had to add to
> this discussion became null and void as soon as
> you referred to me as being someone I'm not.

For you perhaps... your views are selectively myopic, so that would fit. But it doesn't matter if it was right or wrong. I should not have done that. I think you're an ass with little to actually say, but that was a poor reaction on my part.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can believe in God, gods, Santa Claus, Easter
> Bunny, fairies (tooth & others), angels (guardian
> & Charlie's), Elvis is alive, etc..., but you must
> acknowledge that that belief is based on faith
> alone and faith is not proof of anything being
> real. Faith without proof or evidence is nothing
> more than a hunch. A lot of hunches are wrong.
>
> If you don't believe in God or gods, then you are
> an atheist. That is a very logical position to
> take, because even the Pope acknowledges that
> there is no proof of God. Anyone that claims proof
> is a liar. Anyone that claims the existences of
> God, because no one can prove he doesn’t exist
> is a fool not intelligent enough to even have a
> conversation with. The argument that you can’t
> prove something doesn’t exist is a logic
> fallacy. No proof of a crime equals no crime.
> It’s as simple as that.
>
> If you have intelligence, practice reason, and
> demand proof, then you are the best example of the
> culmination of billions of years of evolution.
>
> The link between intelligence and religion is well
> established. A high level of intelligence leads to
> a low inclination towards religious beliefs. A low
> level of intelligence leads to a high inclination
> towards religious beliefs and predication in
> cults.
>
> Being aware of the intelligence-religion
> relationship may be enough to cause some people in
> the middle of the bell curve to wake up and strive
> to move to the rights side of the curve.
>
> Enjoy life people, because there is no God and
> Elvis is dead.


Proof is misleading. There is little absolute proofs. But, for the sake of this discussion, I'll use it. There is scientific proof, emperical proof and logical proof. There is little scientific proof that God exists, more emperical proof that He exists and strong logical proof that He exists. You inability to realize that scientific proof is not the only proof, coupled with your demonstrated lack of true scientific curiosity or understanding are a couple of the reasons why you just keep repeating the same things over and over again as if this time will be the one that makes it true.

It exists, it's true and it's a fact, but proof and evidence of existence don't exist is an example of claims that lack credibility.

Don't fall into the credibility gap; acknowledge that truth needs proof.

Faith is a tool of the weak minded in their struggle to survive a hostile world. Faith doesn't require truth, facts, proof or evidence, so it's an easy position to take. Take the harder right over the easier wrong.

God is a myth and you know it's a myth. Enjoy life and seek the truth in all your endeavors.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It exists, it's true and it's a fact, but proof
> and evidence of existence don't exist is an
> example of claims that lack credibility.
>
> Don't fall into the credibility gap; acknowledge
> that truth needs proof.
>
> Faith is a tool of the weak minded in their
> struggle to survive a hostile world. Faith doesn't
> require truth, facts, proof or evidence, so it's
> an easy position to take. Take the harder right
> over the easier wrong.
>
> God is a myth and you know it's a myth. Enjoy life
> and seek the truth in all your endeavors.


You don't argue that God doesn't exist. You argue that faith should not exist. And you keep making the same "argument" over and over and over again. I'll become more selective in my responses going forward until you come up with some new material....
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Faith exists just like magic exists. It's real if you choose to believe in it but neither stand up to any reasonable scrutiny.

I think it's totally logical that god created the universe in less than a week, then waited 13 billion years to reveal himself to a tribal society of sheep herders in some barely literate part of the middle east. Impregnating a virgin so he could be born as a human being who dies but miraculously comes back to life- all documented by people a few centuries later- how can't you believe this?

Jesus is Magic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Faith exists just like magic exists. It's real if
> you choose to believe in it but neither stand up
> to any reasonable scrutiny.


You don't know the defition of faith if you think it's the same thing as magic. Faith can be used for things other than religion.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's totally logical that god created the
> universe in less than a week, then waited 13
> billion years to reveal himself to a tribal
> society of sheep herders in some barely literate
> part of the middle east. Impregnating a virgin so
> he could be born as a human being who dies but
> miraculously comes back to life- all documented by
> people a few centuries later- how can't you
> believe this?


"A few centuries later"? Uninformed and believing (i.e. having faith in) the lies that you're being sold. Gee, you sound just like a religious zealot. Not unexpected based on your previous posts.

> "A few centuries later"? Uninformed and believing (i.e. having faith in) the
> lies that you're being sold. Gee, you sound just like a religious zealot.
> Not unexpected based on your previous posts.

It was a reference to the Council of Nicaea, where alot of the early stories and disputes about Jesus were settled and officially recognized as "reality".

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's totally logical that god created the
> universe in less than a week, then waited 13
> billion years to reveal himself to a tribal
> society of sheep herders in some barely literate
> part of the middle east. Impregnating a virgin so
> he could be born as a human being who dies but
> miraculously comes back to life- all documented by
> people a few centuries later- how can't you
> believe this?


Yep, as opposed to the complete logic of the entire matter of the universe existing in a super-compressed sphere the size of a ping-pong ball surrounded by infinite nothing. This ball, by force created by itself, exploded, creating the entire universe in self generating perpetual motion. Some of this matter then decided to stop and start forming black holes by creating phenomena such as gravity and magnetism (by itself of course) which allowed galaxies to form, then stars and finally planets. And then somehow, cells formed on some of these planets and the cells began to reproduce, most probably because they got struck by lightening, which, instead of burning them up, made them start dividing or form reproducing organella. Then these cells, through pure luck (or chance, which is the different side of the same coin), evolved into self contained bodies with differntial organs. Then, some of these bodies became plants, some animals and some just hung around as their stupid old single celled selves. Then the plants evovled into different types of plants, for no apparent reason. So did the animals. And then, just by chance and completely logically, some of the animals (and ironically, the ones with the least biological advantage) evolved into self-aware humaniods. What's not to believe?

Certainly , the origin of the universe is a mystery , and probably beyond human comprehension.

Not sure if a robed, bearded man in the sky fighting a red dude with horns down below is a good explaination, but its a step above the more primitive theories , like the sun god , or is it?

Things have been added since the first draft, like promises of eternal life, and assurances that an unseen, unheard spirit is watching your back.

Considering that no one has ever really seen this deity , or actually spoken to him face to face , it all seems like a lot of guessing, specualation and wishful thinking.

Perhaps the big bang theory doesn't appear to be really solid, but it sure beats the magical man and the guarentee of bliss forever.

If people were actually aware of how the gospels were written, where the stories came from, how the conflicting versions were reconciled, and who were the men that made all the decisions, I don't think they would be accepted by your typical believer of today's standards.

The fact that most of myths were created before recorded history tends to give them some credibility in the minds of current day believers.

One major clue in the lack of a God is the fact that unless you got the word by word of mouth, you didn't get the word. If there was a real God, He would make his presents known to tribes on isolated islands thousands of miles from the Middle East. That didn't happen.

Before you buy some feel good storybook of myths, do an investigation of the origin of the documents and myths that purport to defy present day reality.

Just wonder how the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians felt when their Gods were dismissed as myths. The time for the Jewish and Christian God is coming as well. Further advancements in science, communication and education will put all these God myths in the proper perspective.

Everyone really knows it’s a myth. Treat it like a myth. Enjoy life, because this is as good as it gets. There is no afterlife.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it's totally logical that god created the
> universe in less than a week, then waited 13
> billion years to reveal himself to a tribal
> society of sheep herders in some barely literate
> part of the middle east. Impregnating a virgin so
> he could be born as a human being who dies but
> miraculously comes back to life- all documented by
> people a few centuries later- how can't you
> believe this?

Nobody believes that. The Earth is less than 10,000 years old.
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Just like all myths, the God myth is based on lies, half-truths, etc...

Biblical scholars acknowledge this fact.

Most believers are either unaware or prefer to overlook the discrepancies. At least science publishes theories for critical review and refutation with proof or evidence. Science is a system of theory, experiment, discovery, debate, consensus, verification and validation.

If you seek the truth, don't want to live a lie, and you're not gullible, then you are an atheist.

The preponderance of the evidence points the fact that man created God. So, enjoy life, because there is no afterlife. This is it and you r life, no matter how miserable it may seem, is as good as it gets. Some people find comfort in the belief that what they are suffering in their present life, will be completely absent in their afterlife. Perhaps that thought will help them cope, but the joke is on them, by the authors of the Gospels that knew they were lying.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/the-bible-telling-lies-to_b_840301.html

Who Wrote The Bible and Why It Matters

Apart from the most rabid fundamentalists among us, nearly everyone admits that the Bible might contain errors -- a faulty creation story here, a historical mistake there, a contradiction or two in some other place. But is it possible that the problem is worse than that -- that the Bible actually contains lies?

How old is the earth according to the bible?
How would you know?

question bruh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How old is the earth according to the bible?
> How would you know?

http://creationmuseum.org

Trooth. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Proof is misleading. There is little absolute
> proofs. But, for the sake of this discussion,
> I'll use it. There is scientific proof, emperical
> proof and logical proof. There is little
> scientific proof that God exists, more emperical
> proof that He exists and strong logical proof that
> He exists. You inability to realize that
> scientific proof is not the only proof, coupled
> with your demonstrated lack of true scientific
> curiosity or understanding are a couple of the
> reasons why you just keep repeating the same
> things over and over again as if this time
> will be the one that makes it true.

There is no proof of any kind that a God exists. That is why believers rely on faith. Faith is belief without proof.

Contrary to your assertions:

There is no scientific proof that God exists!

There is no emperical proof that God exists!

There is no logical proof that God exists!

The catholic church won't even go out on that limb.

If there was any proof, the believers wouldn't have to rely on faith.

Listen to me
I know things. I'm a fucking genius.

My mother told me this; so did my day care worker.

You Know Nothing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen to me
> I know things. I'm a fucking genius.
>
> My mother told me this; so did my day care worker.

Wow, I could be wrong.

Nobody ever told me that I was fucking genius.

I don't think I'm a fucking genius. Therefore, you must be smarter than me.

Did your mother or your day care worker have any proof that you're a fucking genius, or are they relying on faith?

If they are relying on faith that you are a fucking genius, then it may not be true, because they lack proof. If it may not be true, then you may not be smarter than me and I may not be wrong.

I don't think I'm wrong, because I haven't seen any proof of God, nor am I aware of anyone knowing of any proof of God.

In the absence of proof, I think the safe answer is that there isn't a God. Also, all available information points to the fact that man created God with his imagination in an attempt to explain the unexplainable. However, advancements in science have shown that many of the early religious claims have been proven wrong by science which casts doubt on religious claims in general, because religious claims are not infallible. A general result of which is that without proof, the claim cannot be considered valid and if the claim cannot be considered valid, then it is false. Therefore, until some verifiable proof of a God is produced, the claim that there is a God is false. QED

I'm starting to think that the greatest thing about this thread is that it's keeping "LackOfFaith" occupied and off the streets.
Attachments:

Glass Half Full Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm starting to think that the greatest thing
> about this thread is that it's keeping
> "LackOfFaith" occupied and off the streets.

Actually, it doesn't take much to respond to the pro-myth crowd.

The creationists do more, in the eyes of the masses, to discredit the existence of a God than I ever will.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glass Half Full Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm starting to think that the greatest thing
> > about this thread is that it's keeping
> > "LackOfFaith" occupied and off the streets.
>
> Actually, it doesn't take much to respond to the
> pro-myth crowd.
>
> The creationists do more, in the eyes of the
> masses, to discredit the existence of a God than I
> ever will.

That actually qualifies as "dialog". I was wondering if most of your posts weren't just copied and pasted from other places, since they seem to show little indication that you're reading and thinking.

In some ways, I think you might be right about Creationists discrediting religion as a whole, and I'll be thinking about that; but in other ways, I don't think they have any effect. We look at them and say "those guys are ignoring actual evidence, and plow forward with their convictions anyway", but don't people of other religions tend to view them just as a secular Jew would view an Orthodox one? More like "those guys are too extreme/literal/etc" and just discount them immediately?

For example, I stopped believing in the Bible long before I stopped believing in God. But when I spoke with other believers, I was told that the Bible was full of allegory and tales, but that they were written to teach lessons just the same. Today, I know of almost nobody who thinks that "Noah's Ark" is a literal story, but those same people have no trouble holding up the book as the word of God.

Believers are masters at rationalization, revision, and child abuse. If you drill a myth into a child from an early age, it will likely become ingrained to such an extent that unless that child has a powerful intellect, that myth will become truth and reality. The Catholics are masters of this cult like behavior with their school system that extends from kindergarten through college.

However, I have to give the Catholic Church credit in that they don't take the creationist's approach to science. At least the Catholic Church has decided to accept the truth of science as in evolution, stem cells, etc... The Catholic Church doesn't rely on the bible as many redneck Christians and creationists do with a fanatical literal interpretation. I think the Catholics are more scholarly as well. They have the resources and will continue to have the resources if they can clean up their pedophile issue to avoid any more huge legal settlement payouts.

From my observations and reading, an old myth or lie becomes truth and fact after it has sufficiently aged. That's when anyone anywhere close to the people that fabricated these myths and tales is long gone. The Christian religion is very fragmented. A number of the fragments are small, but can trace their existence back to the early Christian period.

What I find most amusing is that atheists, in general, have a better understanding of the history of the Christian religion than most believers and certainly most creationists. They seem to have limited their study to the bible which doesn't provide any perspective on the history of the religion.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Blah, blah, blah


My question is a bit more procedural: what kind of asshole sits here 24 hours a day, posting every 3 hours on a topic that has "evolved" into a discussion with himself? When the fuck do you sleep? Obsess much? Why don't you join the Dunn Loring Metro thread. You and that poster have tons in common. You may lack faith but you also lack a life.

LackaLife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question is a bit more procedural: what kind
> of asshole sits here 24 hours a day, posting every
> 3 hours on a topic that has "evolved" into a
> discussion with himself? When the fuck do you
> sleep? Obsess much? Why don't you join the Dunn
> Loring Metro thread. You and that poster have
> tons in common. You may lack faith but you also
> lack a life.

Hahahahahahah,

My advice to you is the same. What kind of schmuck monitors and tracks all the posters on FFU. Get a life dude.

Find another thread where you can go off topic.

Also, you need to quit exaggerating and work on your facts.

Typical believer tactic when they can't take the heat; change the subject.

PS – Just incase you didn’t know:

Schmuck: a highly offensive term that deliberately insults somebody’s personal worth (slang insult)

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LackaLife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My question is a bit more procedural: what
> kind
> > of asshole sits here 24 hours a day, posting
> every
> > 3 hours on a topic that has "evolved" into a
> > discussion with himself? When the fuck do you
> > sleep? Obsess much? Why don't you join the
> Dunn
> > Loring Metro thread. You and that poster have
> > tons in common. You may lack faith but you
> also
> > lack a life.
>
> Hahahahahahah,
>
> My advice to you is the same. What kind of schmuck
> monitors and tracks all the posters on FFU. Get a
> life dude.
>
> Find another thread where you can go off topic.
>
> Also, you need to quit exaggerating and work on
> your facts.
>
> Typical believer tactic when they can't take the
> heat; change the subject.
>
> PS – Just incase you didn’t know:
>
> Schmuck: a highly offensive term that deliberately
> insults somebody’s personal worth (slang insult)


Hey shit for brains, I just scanned this page and can see you post every couple of hours, probably responding to another of your anon posts. And you keep posting the same shit over and over.

PS - Just 'incase' you didn't know:

Fucking Troll: a loser who's entire existence revolves around posting useless and/or argumentative crap on the Internet to make up for their lack of a life (see LackofFaith as example).

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LackaLife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My question is a bit more procedural: what
> kind
> > of asshole sits here 24 hours a day, posting
> every
> > 3 hours on a topic that has "evolved" into a
> > discussion with himself? When the fuck do you
> > sleep? Obsess much? Why don't you join the
> Dunn
> > Loring Metro thread. You and that poster have
> > tons in common. You may lack faith but you
> also
> > lack a life.
>
> Hahahahahahah,
>
> My advice to you is the same. What kind of schmuck
> monitors and tracks all the posters on FFU. Get a
> life dude.
>
> Find another thread where you can go off topic.
>
> Also, you need to quit exaggerating and work on
> your facts.
>
> Typical believer tactic when they can't take the
> heat; change the subject.
>
> PS – Just incase you didn’t know:
>
> Schmuck: a highly offensive term that deliberately
> insults somebody’s personal worth (slang insult)


PSS I'm not a 'believer" asshole. I don't give a shit one way or the other about what anyone believes about this kind of crap. I just pointed out the scientific fact that you're a fucking troll who posts every couple of hours on a thread starting yesterday afternoon and continue righ up till now. That's fucking whacky no matter how much you bitch and whine. Now carry on with your trolling. It's there for everyone to see.

What's the matter LackaLife? Are all the gay bars closed?

Go downtown where I hear they have 24-hour bars for your type.

Hahahahahahahahahahahha

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's the matter LackaLife? Are all the gay bars
> closed?
>
> Go downtown where I hear they have 24-hour bars
> for your type.
>
> Hahahahahahahahahahahha


Ewww, that a good one dickwad. 4 minutes for a response. Yeah, you have a life alright.
Attachments:

Cute video with a lot of pink. I think that confirms the type of bars you fit into.

LackofFaith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cute video with a lot of pink. I think that
> confirms the type of bars you fit into.


You even repeat your shitty comebacks. "Your gay". What are you, 14? It probably killed you to have to wait a couple hours to post didn't it? What a douche.
Attachments:

LOL...

I've seen much more engaging discussions than this one completely derailed by homophobia before.

At least we found one philosophy that LackOfFaith can share with many of those he's denouncing, though it's curious: given a firm belief in science, I'd expect him to subscribe the idea that roughly 10% are just born with that variation, and that it's neither contagious nor threatening - unless you've served time, or happen to find yourself being ass-pounded by a bunch of queers.

My current theory: as a boy, LackOfFaith was raped by priests.
Attachments: