Several news articles are suddenly talking about how Bashar Assad is planning to gas his own people (i.e., just like Saddam, with weapons of mass destruction).

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/05/15706380-syria-loads-chemical-weapons-into-bombs-military-awaits-assads-order?lite

Are we laying the groundwork for yet ANOTHER war? Do we have another credit card lying around that we can use for that?

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Several news articles are suddenly talking about
> how Bashar Assad is planning to gas his own people
> (i.e., just like Saddam, with weapons of mass
> destruction).
>
> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/05/1570
> 6380-syria-loads-chemical-weapons-into-bombs-milit
> ary-awaits-assads-order?lite
>
> Are we laying the groundwork for yet ANOTHER war?
> Do we have another credit card lying around that
> we can use for that?

Obama should be arrested for war crimes and impeached.

"Obama should be arrested for war crimes and impeached"

that only applies to Republicans. Obama is a winner of the Nobel Peace Prize.

u wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Obama should be arrested for war crimes and
> impeached"

> that only applies to Republicans. Obama is a
> winner of the Nobel Peace Prize.


LOL!

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Several news articles are suddenly talking about
> how Bashar Assad is planning to gas his own people
> (i.e., just like Saddam, with weapons of mass
> destruction).
>
> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/05/1570
> 6380-syria-loads-chemical-weapons-into-bombs-milit
> ary-awaits-assads-order?lite
>
> Are we laying the groundwork for yet ANOTHER war?
> Do we have another credit card lying around that
> we can use for that?


It is awfully suspicious. Here's an idea - lets finish the other two first. And then if Obama really wants to go to war, fight to win - don't halfass it by fighting nice. Go in there, destroy everything and everyone remotely in the way. Otherwise we'll be there for another 10 years like Iraq.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

Shit, were still in Bosnia. Give us a quagmire in some crap hole country and we cant wait to wade right into the middle of it

Oh look. A US aircraft carrier just arrived off the coast of Syria. Coincidence?

Thousands of US troops arrive near Syrian shore on USS Eisenhower
http://rt.com/usa/news/us-eisenhower-syria-military-369/

US/NATO troops to stage along Turkish border.

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Several news articles are suddenly talking about
> how Bashar Assad is planning to gas his own people
> (i.e., just like Saddam, with weapons of mass
> destruction).
>
> http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/05/1570
> 6380-syria-loads-chemical-weapons-into-bombs-milit
> ary-awaits-assads-order?lite
>
> Are we laying the groundwork for yet ANOTHER war?
> Do we have another credit card lying around that
> we can use for that?

Ask Bush you fucking hypocritical retard.

Oh yeah, these WMDs have already been seen, found and located - not figments of some Repub's imagination.

Gasman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> US/NATO troops to stage along Turkish border.


I dunno whether Barry is planning on going into Syria or not.. But the Turks (NATO member) asked for help, so I'm assuming that's why NATO forces are planning a buildup along the Turkish - Syrian border.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2012 08:36PM by friskydingo.

Iraq and Syria are different situations but I would not be surprised to see Assad use whatever means are at his disposal to stop himself from meeting the same end as Gaddafi or Hussien. One major difference between those instances (where the US did intervene) and Syria is that the Assad regime will likely receive support from Russia and Iran.

While Russia is a shell of its former self militarily, Putin, has made the support of the Assad regime into an issue of national pride and any military intervention would have to take that into consideration. Additionally, while Syria, is predominately Sunni, the entire Assad family is Shi’ite…as is Hezbolloh…as is Iran and about 60 percent of the Iraqi population. This might not mean shit to us in the US, but one could expect Iran to provide material support through northern Iraq into Syria should the US invade. Who knows what Hezbollah’s response would be? We do know that they withstood the onslaught of the IDF in 2006 (which is something no Arab army has ever done) and in 1983 killed 243 US marines, forcing Regan to pull out of Lebenon.

A third block of power to take into consideration is the Al Nasruh front, which is currently devastating the Assad regime, but would love nothing more than an opportunity to attack American soldiers. An article that I read today provides an excellent summation of the campaign they have carried out over the course of the last year against the Shi’ite, Assad regime. I don’t expect anybody to actually read that unless they are very interested in this subject.

I’ll sum it up quickly: The Al Nasrah front, at its core is Al Qaeda in Iraq moved west. Al Qaeda is a Sunni organization. Roughly a year ago Zawahiri (the leader of AQ) gives the green light to attack the Shi'ite, Assad regime. Since then jihadists from all over the world have been pouring into that region and causing complete chaos and Assad is probably scared of almost everybody around him. If there is one attack to read about, it is this one here which IMO, is the most devastating one of its kind ever executed. The Al Nasrah front routinely conducts joint operations with the FSA (Free Syrian Army) which is now fighting what can be considered a conventional war against the Assad regime.

There's nothing in Syria that I can see which would make dealing with that mess worth it.

You mean Assad is thinking of using Iraqis WMDs?

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> forcing Regan to pull out of Lebenon.

Get your facts straight you pussy liberal, Reagan was a hero. These colors don't run!

Every country has chemical weapons. Sarin and mustard gas are widely available. They detected some mustard gas in Iraq after the US invasion of 2003 but the chemicals had little effect, having long surpassed their useful life.

Bashar Assad's only real hope of surviving as a regime is to create a diversion, get Turkey involved, get the US involved, whatever he can do to distract and disorient the situation. He isn't going to die of old age, and he knows it.

As far as comparing this to our invasion of Iraq, if or when we take any sort of action, there is no comparison. We went into Iraq with every intention of being there for a long time. We allowed Iraq to fall into chaos, we disbanded the army, barred anyone who was a member of the baath party from any government position (including school teachers and low-level ministers). The plan, all along, was to build permanent bases in Iraq to conduct the war on terror. We had been effectively kicked out of King Khalid Military City in Saudi Arabia just 2 years before. Unfortunately Iran, Syria and Al Qaeda vetoed our plans.

I would expect any intervention in Syria to be more along the lines of our intervention in Bosnia, with all the same fuck-ups and questionable strategic and political outcomes.

He can't survive unless Syria is carved up and the Alawites and Shia have a state separate from the Sunnis.

Most ME governments and former Soviet client states are ripe for foreign intervention. The countries are geographically divided along ethnic lines with the ethnic minorities holding power.

One option Assad has is to take the money and run. Ali Saleh, the former leader of Yemen, (which is a country every bit as fcked up as Syria, if not more so) saw the writing on the wall and got out while he could. Like Assad, he is a Shi’ite in a predominately Sunni county. Hussein, was also a minority, being an Arab Sunni, in a country with a large Shi’ite Persian, and Kurdish presence to the north. These things usually don’t end well for Arab “strong-men” once the balance of power tips against them (which it may have in Syria)

I understand it must suck to leave in defeat, but it could be worse. I’m sure Assad could work out some deal with the international community, by which he goes to some country to live in safety with enough money to do whatever he wants for the rest of his life. Still, exile has not historically, been the option dictators like this have taken.
Attachments:

I don't see Iran openly assisting Syria.....that whole Persians vs. Arabs is a pretty big deal over there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2012 12:05PM by eesh.

I agree, taking the money and running is probably the wisest course of action.

I don't understand why these billionaire dictators always insist on going down with the ship.

 

friskydingo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree, taking the money and running is probably
> the wisest course of action.
>
> I don't understand why these billionaire dictators
> always insist on going down with the ship.


Didn't you watch Karl Rove on election night? People tend to get caught up in their own bullshit.

Assad probably believes he is the divine, rightful ruler of all the dirt within the lines that were drawn on a map. The people who benefit from his power tell him he's right, and continue to support him. He most likely still believes this is all about a few malcontented individuals who just don't understand how nice of a guy he really is.

There was a point early on where he could have packed up all of his gold and ran for cover in Switzerland or some sunny beach. But he believed his own bullshit and wouldn't give up power. If he has any grasp on reality, he probably knows he's way beyond that now. But I doubt that.

u wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Obama should be arrested for war crimes and
> impeached"
>
> that only applies to Republicans. Obama is a
> winner of the Nobel Peace Prize.


HAHAHA! For what? Things he said he was going to do but never did!

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iraq and Syria [lot of text]


If that happened it'd probably start World War III... Maybe this is what the Mayan's foresaw? It's the end of the World as you know it and I'm just fine...

.
Attachments:

umFEp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Ask Bush you fucking hypocritical retard.
>
> Oh yeah, these WMDs have already been seen, found
> and located - not figments of some Repub's
> imagination.


Correct the CIA and UN investigators have confirmed the sarin missiles are being fueled. Looks like they WILL be fired. Not much the UN can do now. Even if the missiles are shot down the gas will still sink to the ground below.

One sarin gas missile can take out 10,000 people in the middle of as city. Additional missile strikes will spread the gas farther.

Damn, can't even tell if a sarin gas missile has exploded. You can see or smell it.

Sarin is a clear, colorless, and tasteless liquid that has no odor in its pure form. However, sarin can evaporate into a vapor (gas) and spread into the environment.

I see the world for what it is, beyond the white and the black
The way the government downplays historical facts
'Cuz the United States sponsored the rise of the 3rd Reich
Just like the CIA trained terrorists to the fight
Build bombs and sneak box cutters onto a flight

I don't think we should "go to war" with another country. But if we can decisivly attack Syria in a way that disables the chemical weapons, and save thousands of innocents, then so be it. There's a huge difference between nation building like Bush wanted to in Iraq and Afgan. and doing a short term "hit" on a country like Syria with a leader preparing for genocide.

I suspect that there are special forces on the ground trying to intercept the chem weapons at this time, but just guessing.

umFEp Wrote:
>
> Ask Bush you fucking hypocritical retard.
>
> Oh yeah, these WMDs have already been seen, found
> and located - not figments of some Repub's
> imagination.


You're the fucking retard for assuming I'm a Bush/Republican fan. I'm not. Dipshit.

TheNorthman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Iraq and Syria are different situations but I
> would not be surprised to see Assad use whatever
> means are at his disposal to stop himself from
> meeting the same end as Gaddafi or Hussien. One
> major difference between those instances (where
> the US did intervene) and Syria is that the Assad
> regime will likely receive support from Russia and
> Iran.
>
> While Russia is a shell of its former self
> militarily, Putin, has made the support of the
> Assad regime into an issue of national pride and
> any military intervention would have to take that
> into consideration. Additionally, while Syria, is
> predominately Sunni, the entire Assad family is
> Shi’ite…as is Hezbolloh…as is Iran and about
> 60 percent of the Iraqi population. This might
> not mean shit to us in the US, but one could
> expect Iran to provide material support through
> northern Iraq into Syria should the US invade.
> Who knows what Hezbollah’s response would be?
> We do know that they withstood the onslaught of
> the IDF in 2006 (which is something no Arab army
> has ever done) and in 1983 killed 243 US marines,
> forcing Regan to pull out of Lebenon.
>
> A third block of power to take into consideration
> is the Al Nasruh front, which is currently
> devastating the Assad regime, but would love
> nothing more than an opportunity to attack
> American soldiers. An article that I read today
> [URL=http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2012/1
> 2/al_nusrah_front_clai_9.php] provides an
> excellent summation of the campaign they have
> carried out over the course of the last year
> against the Shi’ite, Assad regime[/URL]. I
> don’t expect anybody to actually read that
> unless they are very interested in this subject.
>
>
> I’ll sum it up quickly: The Al Nasrah front, at
> its core is Al Qaeda in Iraq moved west. Al Qaeda
> is a [u]Sunni[/u] organization. Roughly a year
> ago Zawahiri (the leader of AQ) gives the green
> light to attack the [u]Shi'ite[/u], Assad regime.
> Since then jihadists from all over the world have
> been pouring into that region and causing complete
> chaos and Assad is probably scared of almost
> everybody around him. If there is one attack to
> read about, it is
> [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_July_2012_Dam
> ascus_bombing] this one here [/URL] which IMO, is
> the most devastating one of its kind ever
> executed. The Al Nasrah front routinely conducts
> joint operations with the FSA (Free Syrian Army)
> which is now fighting what can be considered a
> conventional war against the Assad regime.
>
> There's nothing in Syria that I can see which
> would make dealing with that mess worth it.

I look at it this way: the US can either support a dictator, do nothing, or support an unknown (possibly terrorist/Islamist) group of revolutionaries. We should do nothing. That being said, some clown in the administration will talk about how "they're fighting for freedom!" so we have to support them.

We're given the idea that if we didn't have these people to exploit then America wouldn't be rich enough to let us have these little petty material things in our lives and basic standards of living.
No, that's wrong.

It's the business giants and the government officials who make all the real money. We have whatever they kick down to us. My enemy is not the average white man, it's not the kid down the block or the kids I see on the street; my enemy is the white man I don't see: the people in the white house, the corporate monopoly owners, fake liberal politicians those are my enemies.

The generals of the armies that are mostly conservatives those are the real Mother-Fuckers that I need to bring it to, not the poor, broke country-ass Marine that's too stupid to know shit about the way things are set up.

Young Curmudgeon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheNorthman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Iraq and Syria are different situations but I
> > would not be surprised to see Assad use
> whatever
> > means are at his disposal to stop himself from
> > meeting the same end as Gaddafi or Hussien.
> One
> > major difference between those instances (where
> > the US did intervene) and Syria is that the
> Assad
> > regime will likely receive support from Russia
> and
> > Iran.
> >
> > While Russia is a shell of its former self
> > militarily, Putin, has made the support of the
> > Assad regime into an issue of national pride
> and
> > any military intervention would have to take
> that
> > into consideration. Additionally, while Syria,
> is
> > predominately Sunni, the entire Assad family is
> > Shi’ite…as is Hezbolloh…as is Iran and
> about
> > 60 percent of the Iraqi population. This might
> > not mean shit to us in the US, but one could
> > expect Iran to provide material support through
> > northern Iraq into Syria should the US invade.
> > Who knows what Hezbollah’s response would be?
>
> > We do know that they withstood the onslaught of
> > the IDF in 2006 (which is something no Arab
> army
> > has ever done) and in 1983 killed 243 US
> marines,
> > forcing Regan to pull out of Lebenon.
> >
> > A third block of power to take into
> consideration
> > is the Al Nasruh front, which is currently
> > devastating the Assad regime, but would love
> > nothing more than an opportunity to attack
> > American soldiers. An article that I read
> today
> >
> [URL=http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2012/1
>
> > 2/al_nusrah_front_clai_9.php] provides an
> > excellent summation of the campaign they have
> > carried out over the course of the last year
> > against the Shi’ite, Assad regime[/URL]. I
> > don’t expect anybody to actually read that
> > unless they are very interested in this subject.
>
> >
> >
> > I’ll sum it up quickly: The Al Nasrah front,
> at
> > its core is Al Qaeda in Iraq moved west. Al
> Qaeda
> > is a [u]Sunni[/u] organization. Roughly a year
> > ago Zawahiri (the leader of AQ) gives the green
> > light to attack the [u]Shi'ite[/u], Assad
> regime.
> > Since then jihadists from all over the world
> have
> > been pouring into that region and causing
> complete
> > chaos and Assad is probably scared of almost
> > everybody around him. If there is one attack
> to
> > read about, it is
> >
> [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_July_2012_Dam
>
> > ascus_bombing] this one here [/URL] which IMO,
> is
> > the most devastating one of its kind ever
> > executed. The Al Nasrah front routinely
> conducts
> > joint operations with the FSA (Free Syrian
> Army)
> > which is now fighting what can be considered a
> > conventional war against the Assad regime.
> >
> > There's nothing in Syria that I can see which
> > would make dealing with that mess worth it.
>
> I look at it this way: the US can either support a
> dictator, do nothing, or support an unknown
> (possibly terrorist/Islamist) group of
> revolutionaries. We should do nothing. That being
> said, some clown in the administration will talk
> about how "they're fighting for freedom!" so we
> have to support them.


What we will be supporting are defense contractors who need a new gig with profits waning from the Iraq /Afgan cash registers shutting down,

chi ching Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> What we will be supporting are defense contractors
> who need a new gig with profits waning from the
> Iraq /Afgan cash registers shutting down,

Why the fuck would we want to stop Assad from gassing his own people?

The less Syrians in the world the better...

chi ching Wrote:

> What we will be supporting are defense contractors
> who need a new gig with profits waning from the
> Iraq /Afgan cash registers shutting down,

+1