So, "Papa" John Schnatter is not pleased about how Obamacare is going to affect his business and his hinted that he will advising his franchisees to reduce the number of full-time employees at each store to one (the manager) and reduce everyone else's weekly hours such that they do not qualify for any company-paid benefits to include health insurance.

Additionally, we've seen advertising recently that includes Mr. Schnatter bantering with Denver Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning about "giving" away 2 million pizzas. An advertising campaign that Mr. Schnatter has "paid" Mr. Manning for with 21 Papa John's franchises.

Finally, Papa Johns has been running various promotions such as a frequent buyer program wherein consumers can earn free pizzas based on their purchases. They are also running a weekly Redskins special (likely in all NFL cities, too) wherein on the day following a Redskins game a large cheese is $9.99, you get a free topping for each Redskins touchdown and in the event of a Redskins win, they double the toppings for free. For example, tomorrow consumers can get a large pizza for $9.99 with up to 8 toppings free because the Redskins won and scored 4 touchdowns.

It seems to me that either Obamacare won't really affect his business as badly as he is stating (in which case Mr. Schnatter is a liar) OR perhaps it's time to stop spending money/losing money/paying for promotions with franchises to promote the hell out of sub-mediocre pizza and start making a quality pie that can stand on its own without MILLIONS of advertising. Papa John's current pizza cost is less than $2.00.

STFU idiot.

I actually like PJ but will stop buying from them for this stance. It's obviously political. I say let the market vote with their feet.

Does anyone even still order from any of the three national brand-name pizza places?

There are so many good local places owned by people who don't mouth off about politics and make idiotic business decisions like "I'm going to screw my employees because I disagree with the law"

Buy local, keep your money in your community. Fuck that asshole, I hope his share price tanks.

He has good value for the buck but dumb to mixing business with politics. Even Chick Fil A backed off after awhile. Let's see him get spanked personally.

The tea party just loves fast food issues.

Godfather Pizza, Chick-Fil-A, first lady eating at McDonald's, Twinkies, Papa John's.

The average red state American obsesses about this stuff. If it's a dumb story that affects fast food, the conservatives are all over it.

Wonder what legal avenues are available to franchise owners to sue this dumbass for hurting their business with his political rants.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The tea party just loves fast food issues.
>
> Godfather Pizza, Chick-Fil-A, first lady eating at
> McDonald's, Twinkies, Papa John's.
>
> The average red state American obsesses about this
> stuff. If it's a dumb story that affects fast
> food, the conservatives are all over it.


Which is why pinhead libs are the ones here posting and talking about it. lmao

bling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wonder what legal avenues are available to
> franchise owners to sue this dumbass for hurting
> their business with his political rants.


If I was a franchise owner, I'd pay to have a mailer sent to every address in my delivery area that explained that I would be keeping my employees at full-time status with benefits, and begging for their business in spite of Jackass Schnatter's political pants-wetting.

I bet the papa john's in Bethesda is going to have to do something like that once they see their sales drop through the floor.

Direct Marketing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bling Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wonder what legal avenues are available to
> > franchise owners to sue this dumbass for
> hurting
> > their business with his political rants.
>
>
> If I was a franchise owner, I'd pay to have a
> mailer sent to every address in my delivery area
> that explained that I would be keeping my
> employees at full-time status with benefits, and
> begging for their business in spite of Jackass
> Schnatter's political pants-wetting.

Exactly. And what are the legalities here? I mean...as a franchisee are you required to follow corporate directives regarding employee hours, benefits, etc?

If an individual franchisee wants to have full-time employees and pay their benefits what's the problem? As long as the franchisee is meeting the financial requirements with respect to fees paid back to Schnatter, then what's the problem?

NOVALifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Exactly. And what are the legalities here? I
> mean...as a franchisee are you required to follow
> corporate directives regarding employee hours,
> benefits, etc?
>
> If an individual franchisee wants to have
> full-time employees and pay their benefits what's
> the problem? As long as the franchisee is meeting
> the financial requirements with respect to fees
> paid back to Schnatter, then what's the problem?


"Golly Mister Schnatter, I tried to screw all my employees, but they kept quitting on me. Nobody wants to work part-time for me when they can walk across the street and work full-time for Dominos or the locally owned shop. Gee, wish I could help you out with your political partisan plans, but I need to stay in business and I need employees."

NOVALifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Direct Marketing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > bling Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Wonder what legal avenues are available to
> > > franchise owners to sue this dumbass for
> > hurting
> > > their business with his political rants.
> >
> >
> > If I was a franchise owner, I'd pay to have a
> > mailer sent to every address in my delivery
> area
> > that explained that I would be keeping my
> > employees at full-time status with benefits,
> and
> > begging for their business in spite of Jackass
> > Schnatter's political pants-wetting.
>
> Exactly. And what are the legalities here? I
> mean...as a franchisee are you required to follow
> corporate directives regarding employee hours,
> benefits, etc?
>
> If an individual franchisee wants to have
> full-time employees and pay their benefits what's
> the problem? As long as the franchisee is meeting
> the financial requirements with respect to fees
> paid back to Schnatter, then what's the problem?


Nothing stops them. Except that none want to have full-time employees and pay their benefits. Some of you guys obviously have no experience running a small business and no idea how little margin there is in places like that. Paying several full-time people with full benefits for a lot of small franchisees probably is about equal to or greater than their profit for the year.

Clueless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Nothing stops them. Except that none want to have
> full-time employees and pay their benefits. Some
> of you guys obviously have no experience running a
> small business and no idea how little margin there
> is in places like that. Paying several full-time
> people with full benefits for a lot of small
> franchisees probably is about equal to or greater
> than their profit for the year.

Clueless has experience listening to a right-wing radio host describing how low the margins are at a pizza delivery place, obviously.

I've worked in several pizza places and managed a delivery-only shop in college and for several years after graduating. Did the books, did the payroll, did the ordering and inventory.

Pizza places, especially delivery-only, have pretty good margins. The rent is the only real cost factor. If the owner isn't making a nice profit, he's doing something wrong.

It costs about 35 cents to make the dough for a 12" pie, 25 cents for the sauce, 40 cents for the cheese. Toppings vary, but averages about 70 cents, even less if you make your own sausage in-house from ground pork and fat cuttings.

Sit in your arm chair watching Fox News, and keep telling yourself that it is everyone else who just doesn't understand business. You get it.

Clueless's clued-in cousin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clueless Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > Nothing stops them. Except that none want to
> have
> > full-time employees and pay their benefits.
> Some
> > of you guys obviously have no experience running
> a
> > small business and no idea how little margin
> there
> > is in places like that. Paying several
> full-time
> > people with full benefits for a lot of small
> > franchisees probably is about equal to or
> greater
> > than their profit for the year.
>
> Clueless has experience listening to a right-wing
> radio host describing how low the margins are at a
> pizza delivery place, obviously.
>
> I've worked in several pizza places and managed a
> delivery-only shop in college and for several
> years after graduating. Did the books, did the
> payroll, did the ordering and inventory.
>
> Pizza places, especially delivery-only, have
> pretty good margins. The rent is the only real
> cost factor. If the owner isn't making a nice
> profit, he's doing something wrong.
>
> It costs about 35 cents to make the dough for a
> 12" pie, 25 cents for the sauce, 40 cents for the
> cheese. Toppings vary, but averages about 70
> cents, even less if you make your own sausage
> in-house from ground pork and fat cuttings.
>
> Sit in your arm chair watching Fox News, and keep
> telling yourself that it is everyone else who just
> doesn't understand business. You get it.


Uh huh. I've not run a pizza joint but I do run my own small business with about 20 employees and I know what an average full-time employee costs me. And I have looked at several different franchise-type businesses so a I have a reasonable basis for comparison.

OK smart guy. What was your monthly revenue? How many units sold/month on average and at what cost. How many employee hours/month. What was your rent. What were the monthly utilities? What was the monthly pay-down on equipment and other overhead investment? What was the franchise fee? We can very easily ball-park the numbers. Just the fact that you'd be adding up the cost of the pizza itself tells me that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. That's the least significant part of the deal.

Clueless Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NOVALifer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Direct Marketing Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > bling Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Wonder what legal avenues are available to
> > > > franchise owners to sue this dumbass for
> > > hurting
> > > > their business with his political rants.
> > >
> > >
> > > If I was a franchise owner, I'd pay to have a
> > > mailer sent to every address in my delivery
> > area
> > > that explained that I would be keeping my
> > > employees at full-time status with benefits,
> > and
> > > begging for their business in spite of
> Jackass
> > > Schnatter's political pants-wetting.
> >
> > Exactly. And what are the legalities here? I
> > mean...as a franchisee are you required to
> follow
> > corporate directives regarding employee hours,
> > benefits, etc?
> >
> > If an individual franchisee wants to have
> > full-time employees and pay their benefits
> what's
> > the problem? As long as the franchisee is
> meeting
> > the financial requirements with respect to fees
> > paid back to Schnatter, then what's the
> problem?
>
>
> Nothing stops them. Except that none want to have
> full-time employees and pay their benefits. Some
> of you guys obviously have no experience running a
> small business and no idea how little margin there
> is in places like that. Paying several full-time
> people with full benefits for a lot of small
> franchisees probably is about equal to or greater
> than their profit for the year.

RAISE YOUR MOTHER-FUCKING GODDAMN PRICES! What are we talking about???...$0.11-$.52 depending on who you you talk to...

^ Never mind. Don't need to.

According to their financials average weekly sales for franchisees stores were $14,431 (a range of $14,839 - $10,316 for comparable and non-comparable stores, respectively).

That equals out to be about $750,000/year in sales.

Looking at some comparables one can assume somewhere between about a 7% - 10% net profit. (Papa John's itself at the corporate level makes ~4.6% net profit.)

So that gives you about $52,500 - $75,000 in total profit to work with.

Now how many full-time people at fully loaded salary costs do you want to hire?

I don't know why Papa Johns is sweating a price increase. We take prices up $.25 a gallon here...$0.78 there...maybe $1.13 over there. People bitch and kepe right on filling up their 12 miles per gallon sports cars and SUVs. Increase your prices, Papa Johns.

Some clues Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ Never mind. Don't need to.
>
> According to their financials average weekly sales
> for franchisees stores were $14,431 (a range of
> $14,839 - $10,316 for comparable and
> non-comparable stores, respectively).
>
> That equals out to be about $750,000/year in
> sales.
>
> Looking at some comparables one can assume
> somewhere between about a 7% - 10% net profit.
> (Papa John's itself at the corporate level makes
> ~4.6% net profit.)
>
> So that gives you about $52,500 - $75,000 in total
> profit to work with.
>
> Now how many full-time people at fully loaded
> salary costs do you want to hire?


So they pay their employees from their profit, I guess?

You have a few things mixed up there. Papa John's corporate profits are based on corporate store sales and franchise fees.

The franchise owner who is only making 10% net profit is paying 2 or 3 full time employees already.

You forgot, nobody was talking about hiring more workers, the discussion is that Snitzel or schattler or whoever is throwing a fit about Obama winning re-election and wants to get rid of all full time workers, except for a store manager, and only have part-time employees.

Many of his franchisees will probably see that as good cover to increase their profit, but they'll also suffer in the long run.

I don't understand why people become franchisees. Whatever ambition and energy it took to become a small business owner will be drained away by the struggles of franchising.

I read that an owner of a UPS store will need $400k in annual revenue just to make $40,000 a year income. Why put yourself through all that trouble and long hours for such mediocre income?

Missed part of it.... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some clues Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ^ Never mind. Don't need to.
> >
> > According to their financials average weekly
> sales
> > for franchisees stores were $14,431 (a range of
> > $14,839 - $10,316 for comparable and
> > non-comparable stores, respectively).
> >
> > That equals out to be about $750,000/year in
> > sales.
> >
> > Looking at some comparables one can assume
> > somewhere between about a 7% - 10% net profit.
> > (Papa John's itself at the corporate level
> makes
> > ~4.6% net profit.)
> >
> > So that gives you about $52,500 - $75,000 in
> total
> > profit to work with.
> >
> > Now how many full-time people at fully loaded
> > salary costs do you want to hire?
>
>
> So they pay their employees from their profit, I
> guess?
>
> You have a few things mixed up there. Papa John's
> corporate profits are based on corporate store
> sales and franchise fees.
>
> The franchise owner who is only making 10% net
> profit is paying 2 or 3 full time employees
> already.
>
> You forgot, nobody was talking about hiring more
> workers, the discussion is that Snitzel or
> schattler or whoever is throwing a fit about Obama
> winning re-election and wants to get rid of all
> full time workers, except for a store manager, and
> only have part-time employees.
>
> Many of his franchisees will probably see that as
> good cover to increase their profit, but they'll
> also suffer in the long run.


No, as I said that's net profit.

I don't have anything mixed up, I very clearly separated the corporate numbers for that reason. The corporate numbers are entirely different since most of his full-time employees are at the corporate level and not out making pizzas. They do employ people in the corporate-owned stores where that does apply. The numbers that he's using are averaged out across all of the company including both groups and divided by some number of units sold so it appears trivial on a per unit basis. But if extended to providing benefits for N people/store x N stores (~700 if I remember right) x $ thousands/year each turns into significant money. Since they're not covering all of the employees who are required to be covered under Obamacare, then it is additive.

But here we were talking about franchisees. The point being that there's not a whole heck of a lot of margin to work with for places like this. At some point it's just not worth doing. You don't buy into it and put your money at risk just to employ other people. The only way that these deals really generate much money is over volume. Maybe some of the larger franchisees with many stores are but the average guy with a couple of stores isn't dragging in big money. They also probably have most of their assets tied up in the business. And that net profit is to the business. Depending on how it's structured, they're paying personal taxes on whatever they pull out of it on top.

Even at the big end of the scale one group of franchisees noted in their financials with 33 stores lost ~$25,000 on over $5 million in sales with $5.25 million in expenses (reported since they gave them a loan).

Had Papa Johns for supper tonight. Was pretty good. Obama is not to blame for anything here. Papa John Shatner is being a baby who wants to make a political point, neither he or any other major corporate head are in trouble of going under because of 'Obamacare', they just don't want to pay a little extra from their Scrooge McDuck like vault of gold in taxes. So they screw their employees, of their own corporate greed. Obamacare is just a convenient excuse for 'Job Creators' to fuck their employees one more time.


Obama made me do it!

NOVALifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Direct Marketing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > bling Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Wonder what legal avenues are available to
> > > franchise owners to sue this dumbass for
> > hurting
> > > their business with his political rants.
> >
> >
> > If I was a franchise owner, I'd pay to have a
> > mailer sent to every address in my delivery
> area
> > that explained that I would be keeping my
> > employees at full-time status with benefits,
> and
> > begging for their business in spite of Jackass
> > Schnatter's political pants-wetting.
>
> Exactly. And what are the legalities here? I
> mean...as a franchisee are you required to follow
> corporate directives regarding employee hours,
> benefits, etc?
>
> If an individual franchisee wants to have
> full-time employees and pay their benefits what's
> the problem? As long as the franchisee is meeting
> the financial requirements with respect to fees
> paid back to Schnatter, then what's the problem?


Theyre free to if they want, but they wont get a dime from the company when they realize its eating up most if not all of their profit. If they really want to roll the dice with it theyre free to go under if they so choose.

Hes advocating it as a way to protect the brand.

Flip Wilson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Had Papa Johns for supper tonight. Was pretty
> good. Obama is not to blame for anything here.
> Papa John Shatner is being a baby who wants to
> make a political point, neither he or any other
> major corporate head are in trouble of going under
> because of 'Obamacare', they just don't want to
> pay a little extra from their Scrooge McDuck like
> vault of gold in taxes. So they screw their
> employees, of their own corporate greed. Obamacare
> is just a convenient excuse for 'Job Creators' to
> fuck their employees one more time.
>
>
> Obama made me do it!


Like youve made a political statement there just saying that with no working knowledge of how much it will cost them or what their individual franchises actually make?

You guys crack me up.

You act as if it's no problem for a small business to come up with $400-600 per employee a month that they never had to pay out before.

And you talk about pizza delivery jobs as being loaded with benefits.

Meanwhile, the government has given small businesses a loophole and anyone that actually uses that loophole is evil and greedy.

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys crack me up.
>
> You act as if it's no problem for a small business
> to come up with $400-600 per employee a month that
> they never had to pay out before.
>
> And you talk about pizza delivery jobs as being
> loaded with benefits.
>
> Meanwhile, the government has given small
> businesses a loophole and anyone that actually
> uses that loophole is evil and greedy.

they are not talking about a small business and $400-600 is a complete exageration

try $250 max in a group plan

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys crack me up.
>
> You act as if it's no problem for a small business
> to come up with $400-600 per employee a month that
> they never had to pay out before.
>
> And you talk about pizza delivery jobs as being
> loaded with benefits.
>
> Meanwhile, the government has given small
> businesses a loophole and anyone that actually
> uses that loophole is evil and greedy.


papa johns is retarded

FOUR MORE YEARS!