Now we know why Romney was withholding his taxes... Seems Romney was defrauding the US gov with hidden offshore accounts. Democrats are now demanding a formal tax fraud investigation.


Buried deep in the tax returns released by Mitt Romney's presidential campaign are references to dozens of offshore holdings with names like Ursa Funding (Luxembourg) S.à.r.l. and Sankaty Credit Opportunities Investors (Offshore) IV, based in the Cayman Islands.

Mr. Romney, responding to opponents' barbs about his use of overseas tax havens, has offered a narrow defense, saying only that the investments, many made through the private equity firm he founded, Bain Capital, have yielded him "not one dollar of reduction in taxes."

A review of thousands of pages of financial documents and interviews with tax lawyers found that in some cases, the offshore arrangements enabled his individual retirement account to avoid taxes on its investments and may well have reduced Mr. Romney's personal income tax bills.

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/news/us/offshore-tactics-helped-increase-romneys-wealth-655836/

So when you're trying to hide money illegally from the IRS........you list it on your tax return?

Brilliant! They'll never find it if you tell them about it!

Mitt Romney, SuperPatriot

Always putting America first
Attachments:

SoylentGreen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So when you're trying to hide money illegally from
> the IRS........you list it on your tax return?
>
> Brilliant! They'll never find it if you tell them
> about it!


Even better lock it up in your IRA. They'll never find it there.

Hatemotor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mitt Romney, SuperPatriot
>
> Always putting America first

Please remind me who is the President?

loss of memory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hatemotor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mitt Romney, SuperPatriot
> >
> > Always putting America first
>
> Please remind me who is the President?


The guy who at least hasn't sent jobs to china, and doesn't have any off shore accounts

It may all be legal, but that's not the type of person who puts America first,,,
Do what you want, but don't ask to be the leader of this country with that track record,,,

At least Santorum didn't have that kind of baggage, I wouldn't vote for him, but not because I thought he was a traitor

Here's another crazy idea the GOP may want to entertain, come up with some new ideas, don't just tell us you have some, tell us what they are,,,

Instead of telling us what's wrong with the other guy, tell us what you would do to help the middle class,,,you know the people you despise, the "little people" who make up the majority of the nation,,,

The GOP will emerge from this defeat much stronger 4 years from now because new candidates will emerge with real ideas that can challenge the present "party of no"'s weak ass 1%er mentallity, and rejoin the rest of the nation,,,

You should rejoice in your impending defeat,,,

Hatemotor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> loss of memory Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hatemotor Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Mitt Romney, SuperPatriot
> > >
> > > Always putting America first
> >
> > Please remind me who is the President?
>
>
> The guy who at least hasn't sent jobs to china,
> and doesn't have any off shore accounts
>
> It may all be legal, but that's not the type of
> person who puts America first,,,
> Do what you want, but don't ask to be the leader
> of this country with that track record,,,
>
> At least Santorum didn't have that kind of
> baggage, I wouldn't vote for him, but not because
> I thought he was a traitor
>
> Here's another crazy idea the GOP may want to
> entertain, come up with some new ideas, don't just
> tell us you have some, tell us what they are,,,
>
> Instead of telling us what's wrong with the other
> guy, tell us what you would do to help the middle
> class,,,you know the people you despise, the
> "little people" who make up the majority of the
> nation,,,
>
> The GOP will emerge from this defeat much stronger
> 4 years from now because new candidates will
> emerge with real ideas that can challenge the
> present "party of no"'s weak ass 1%er mentallity,
> and rejoin the rest of the nation,,,
>
> You should rejoice in your impending defeat,,,


Hey tell us about Ron Paul, Hate...

I thought he was your guy.

I'm right with you Hatemotor. I am definitely no fan of Obama, but he is more or less what he advertises.

About this thread...

The reason why we know what offshore accounts Mr. Romney has in all of these tax havens is because he declared them on his taxes.

The core reason why we most likely know this is that Romney took advantage of the 2009 amnesty offered by the U.S. government.

He didn't just do this because he decided to "come clean". When the British government forced the Swiss bank UBS to open its books in 2009 as part of the banking collapse and subsequent scandal investigation, names and accounts appeared to IRS investigators for the first time. The U.S. IRS was given this list and they approached the people on that list and offered them amnesty.

Why would Romney only release 2010 and 2011 tax returns and not 2009? Because the 2009 return would show that he took the amnesty.

Ito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm right with you Hatemotor. I am definitely no
> fan of Obama, but he is more or less what he
> advertises.
>
> About this thread...
>
> The reason why we know what offshore accounts Mr.
> Romney has in all of these tax havens is because
> he declared them on his taxes.
>
> The core reason why we most likely know this is
> that Romney took advantage of the 2009 amnesty
> offered by the U.S. government.
>
> He didn't just do this because he decided to "come
> clean". When the British government forced the
> Swiss bank UBS to open its books in 2009 as part
> of the banking collapse and subsequent scandal
> investigation, names and accounts appeared to IRS
> investigators for the first time. The U.S. IRS was
> given this list and they approached the people on
> that list and offered them amnesty.
>
> Why would Romney only release 2010 and 2011 tax
> returns and not 2009? Because the 2009 return
> would show that he took the amnesty.

But at the end of the day, one of the candidates understands accounting, economic principles, budgets and effeciency....

And the other candidates' understanding of economics is probably restricted to when he was in some classroom and they discussed "widgets"..

Hey tell us about Ron Paul, Hate...

I thought he was your guy

I actually liked his stands on foriegn policy, and how there should be less of it,,we are not the world police and we have way over reached in our relentless
crusade to "democratize" the rest of th e world,,ie create cheap/slave labor for our corporations to exploit,,,

We do not need 700+ military bases around the world, esp when our own country is in crisis

His promise to close the overseas bases, esp in "hotspots" like Germany and Japan appealed to me,,,
Attachments:

I agree WingNut, you won't hear me defending Obama or promoting his wise economic policies -- certainly not.

However, putting Romney in charge of reforming our banking and tax system is like putting the fox in charge of the hen house.

If you want to see all new candidates within 4 years from BOTH parties, then you just have to put up with a second term for Obama, it's not ideal, but it's the best chance to cleanse the political system of the partisans on both sides instead of a "next in line" approach to nominating candidates,,,

Candidates will actually have to identify themselves with the ideas that define them,,,not just run against someone else

Think of it as a political enema,,,

Hatemotor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you want to see all new candidates within 4
> years from BOTH parties, then you just have to put
> up with a second term for Obama, it's not ideal,
> but it's the best chance to cleanse the political
> system of the partisans on both sides instead of a
> "next in line" approach to nominating
> candidates,,,
>
> Candidates will actually have to identify
> themselves with the ideas that define them,,,not
> just run against someone else
>
> Think of it as a political enema,,,


1.4 Million businesses filed for bankruptcy (according to ABC's fact check) last year.

Can this country really take four more years of the same thing?

Ito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree WingNut, you won't hear me defending Obama
> or promoting his wise economic policies --
> certainly not.
>
> However, putting Romney in charge of reforming our
> banking and tax system is like putting the fox in
> charge of the hen house.

WRONG..

The difference is that Romney is already rich beyond repair and won't be needing to make sweetheart energy deals and other nepotistic scams like Obummer has.

AS much as I hate politicians and mistrust the political process, the best thing for the country is a man who has made millions in the AMERICAN ECONOMY, and has enough loot not to be beholden to or subject to corruption like modest millioniares like Obama or Bill Clinton are.

As much of a douche as Michael Bloomberg is, a guy like he or Romney with significant financial assets has first of all proven an ability to understand mega macroeconomics, but second has a much higher sellout price (if at all) than Obumma. You are not goig to buy these guys principals for 5 or 10 million bucks.

If you recall, Obama has a pretty low price when it comes to graft and sells out crudely and cheaply. Remember the Tony Reszko land deal? Wanna explain that one again?

While Romney has spoken of lowering taxes, he has also spoke of eliminating DEDUCTIONS. Political puke like Obama prefer deductions and Byzantine tax codes where they and their cronies can appear to be benevolent and populist, all while being no different thatn the other heavyweights of the corporate world they attempt to blame. (at least with one side of their mouth)

If you don't think that Obama has been a friend puppet of Wall Street, please wipe the shit out of your eyes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2012 07:15AM by WingNut.

Typikal hypokritikal demokrats. Your DNK Chair profits from these accounts.

http://floppingaces.net/most_wanted/wasserman-schultz-also-has-an-offshore-account/


Wasserman-Schultz also has an offshore account

Disclosure forms reveal that Democratic National Committee chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz, a member of Congress from Florida, previously held funds with investments in Swiss banks, foreign drug companies, and the state bank of India. This revelation comes mere days after the Democratic chair attacked presumptive Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney for holding money in Swiss bank accounts in the past.

“Americans need to ask themselves, why does an American businessman need a Swiss bank account and secretive investments like that?” the DNC chair, a chief surrogate for President Obama’s reelection team, said on Fox News Sunday two days ago. “Just something, a thought, that I’d like to leave folks with.”

...disclosure forms reveal that in 2010, Wasserman Schultz invested ... in a 401k retirement fund run by Davis Financial Fund. As the fund discloses, it is invested in the Julius Baer Group Ltd. and the State Bank of India GDR Ltd., as well as other financial, insurance, bank institutions.

------------------------------------

twitter @EyeAmU

Hatemotor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> loss of memory Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hatemotor Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Mitt Romney, SuperPatriot
> > >
> > > Always putting America first
> >
> > Please remind me who is the President?
>
>
> The guy who at least hasn't sent jobs to china,
> and doesn't have any off shore accounts
>
> It may all be legal, but that's not the type of
> person who puts America first,,,
> Do what you want, but don't ask to be the leader
> of this country with that track record,,,
>
> At least Santorum didn't have that kind of
> baggage, I wouldn't vote for him, but not because
> I thought he was a traitor
>
> Here's another crazy idea the GOP may want to
> entertain, come up with some new ideas, don't just
> tell us you have some, tell us what they are,,,
>
> Instead of telling us what's wrong with the other
> guy, tell us what you would do to help the middle
> class,,,you know the people you despise, the
> "little people" who make up the majority of the
> nation,,,
>
> The GOP will emerge from this defeat much stronger
> 4 years from now because new candidates will
> emerge with real ideas that can challenge the
> present "party of no"'s weak ass 1%er mentallity,
> and rejoin the rest of the nation,,,
>
> You should rejoice in your impending defeat,,,

so why didnt obama put a stop to it his first two years instead of playing golf all the time?

conVince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Typikal hypokritikal demokrats. Your DNK Chair
> profits from these accounts.

> http://floppingaces.net/most_wanted/wasserman-schultz-also-has-an-offshore-account/

These are so completely not the same thing. The article does its very best to make it seem so.

Mitt Romney's money is in foreign bank ACCOUNTS -- i.e., his cash is actually held inside a foreign bank.

This article reveals that the snaggle-toothed Wasserman-Schultz has put up to $15K in a retirement fund that owns SHARES of foreign companies -- some of which are banks. Its not even like she went out and bought stock in UBS or the Credit Suisse Group herself, which wouldn't even have been close to what Romney has done.

You really have to have no understanding of the stock market, banking, finance and investments to fall for this story to think that the two are the same.

Mittens believes China is the best investment. Nuff said.

Ito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> conVince Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Typikal hypokritikal demokrats. Your DNK Chair
> > profits from these accounts.
>
> >
> http://floppingaces.net/most_wanted/wasserman-schu
> ltz-also-has-an-offshore-account/
>
> These are so completely not the same thing. The
> article does its very best to make it seem so.
>
> Mitt Romney's money is in foreign bank ACCOUNTS --
> i.e., his cash is actually held inside a foreign
> bank.
>
> This article reveals that the snaggle-toothed
> Wasserman-Schultz has put up to $15K in a
> retirement fund that owns SHARES of foreign
> companies -- some of which are banks. Its not even
> like she went out and bought stock in UBS or the
> Credit Suisse Group herself, which wouldn't even
> have been close to what Romney has done.
>
> You really have to have no understanding of the
> stock market, banking, finance and investments to
> fall for this story to think that the two are the
> same.


And you're still falling for the same political BS.

For all practical purposes, it is effectively the same from the perspective of the idiotic "invest in Amurica" bs. As are Obama's holdings in a fund that specifically targets foreign investment vehicles. Neither represents a particularly valid argument in the scheme of things given real-world money flow and both were likely done for practical purposes as part of an overall investment strategy, but if you're going to criticize one on that basis, then it applies to both.

It is not the same in terms of the specific structure of the accounts. The implication being that they are somehow "secret" or tax-advantaged.

So here's your homework assignment - Go look up the specifics of the "secret offshore Swiss bank account" that he has (actually it was his wife's trust I believe) and come back and report the details. Very easy to find if you take the time to look.

The fact that the reason that you know about it at all is that it was disclosed by the trustee and the type of account would seem to be kind of a tip-offs that it wasn't a super-secret "Swiss bank account." And the fact that it was reported on his tax return kind of blows the tax haven theory. But don't let facts stop you from continuing to promote campaign memes.

It was reported on his 2010 and 2011 tax returns because he took the amnesty in 2009. This is why he won't reveal his 2009 return.

Ito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was reported on his 2010 and 2011 tax returns
> because he took the amnesty in 2009. This is why
> he won't reveal his 2009 return.


lol! And you know this how?

Beyond that, your answer indicates that you didn't bother to look for the facts re the account. The "secret Swiss bank account" was a simple money market account available to anyone which the trustee took advantage of because they were offering marginally higher rates at the time. It was not "secret" or tax advantaged in any way. No need to claim amnesty on something known and reported for tax purposes.

Oh come on, you know Romney knew he had some offshore accounts. I own mutual and market funds and I glance down through the portfolio to see what they have in the portfolio.

Did Romney say "buy offshore accounts" no. Did Romney know the accounts were there, of course. Every rich person loves to brag about their great investments. Especially if they are getting some really go deal or hidden benefits. It is a huge topic at parties and social events.

You must not know a lot of wealthy people.

Pesky details Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lol! And you know this how?

This has been quite an issue in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis. Feel free to read as much as you like. Its not that simply having Swiss bank accounts is in and of itself a bad thing, but the real question is WHY? What makes Swiss or Cayman Islands accounts so much better than U.S. accounts?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/01/09/irs-makes-swiss-cheese-of-swiss-banks/

http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/18/ubs-fraud-offshore-personal-finance_ubs.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2012/06/21/latest-u-s-swiss-deal-makes-clear-no-hiding-cash-in-big-swiss-banks/

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48249800/CNBC_EXCLUSIVE_CNBC_S_EAMON_JAVERS_DID_SOME_POLITICAL_FIGURES_HAVE_SECRET_SWISS_ACCOUNTS

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikakelton/2012/08/20/the-bane-of-romneys-investments-whistleblowers/

Truth4ThePeople Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh come on, you know Romney knew he had some
> offshore accounts. I own mutual and market funds
> and I glance down through the portfolio to see
> what they have in the portfolio.
>
> Did Romney say "buy offshore accounts" no. Did
> Romney know the accounts were there, of course.
> Every rich person loves to brag about their great
> investments. Especially if they are getting some
> really go deal or hidden benefits. It is a huge
> topic at parties and social events.
>
> You must not know a lot of wealthy people.


As above, you need to be clear re the argument you're making.

If you're arguing that anyone holding foreign investments is somehow "unAmerican" then that applies equally to Obama given that he holds funds that are specifically and exclusively targeted to foreign investment. And, again, they are there for a purpose in an overall general investment distribution.

Ito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pesky details Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > lol! And you know this how?
>
> This has been quite an issue in the wake of the
> 2008 financial crisis. Feel free to read as much
> as you like. Its not that simply having Swiss bank
> accounts is in and of itself a bad thing, but the
> real question is WHY? What makes Swiss or Cayman
> Islands accounts so much better than U.S.
> accounts?
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2012/01/09/
> irs-makes-swiss-cheese-of-swiss-banks/
>
> http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/18/ubs-fraud-offshor
> e-personal-finance_ubs.html

Doesn't relate to Romney or to non-"secret" Swiss accounts as simple money market funds are. And, as the article indicates, the idea of "secret Swiss bank accounts" is for the most part legend these days.

>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetnovack/2012/06/21
> /latest-u-s-swiss-deal-makes-clear-no-hiding-cash-
> in-big-swiss-banks/
>

As above.


> http://www.cnbc.com/id/48249800/CNBC_EXCLUSIVE_CNB
> C_S_EAMON_JAVERS_DID_SOME_POLITICAL_FIGURES_HAVE_S
> ECRET_SWISS_ACCOUNTS
>

As above.


> http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikakelton/2012/08/20
> /the-bane-of-romneys-investments-whistleblowers/


Really? A very clearly slanted article that infers a connection between UDS's whistle-blower and Romney because it happened in the same year? lol This is a pitifully partisan article. If you want I can pick out specifics to demonstrate the leaps of logic and disconnects but hardly worth it given that they are obvious to any objective reader.

Beyond that, the author is a long-time contributor to the Democratic party:

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name_address&lat=38.9170820000&oldest=1&lng=-77.0492410000&lname=Kelton&fname=Erika

Again, the fact is that this wasn't a "secret Swiss bank account." It was a money market that anyone could put their money in.

But I just know that rich bastard's hiding something!!! lol

The IRS offered an amnesty in 2009 for offshore accounts. If Romney would release his 2009 tax return we would know if he took the amnesty.

He won't. We can all just take his word for it I guess.

Ito Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The IRS offered an amnesty in 2009 for offshore
> accounts. If Romney would release his 2009 tax
> return we would know if he took the amnesty.
>
> He won't. We can all just take his word for it I
> guess.


And if you do get to see his personal tax returns from 2009, and there's nothing indicating he was involved in the amnesty program, will you suddenly switch directions and campaign for him?

Or if he was involved, will you condemn him further for doing the right thing?

You really need to take a step back, Ito. Romney could have killed someone and it wont change what a complete and total failure Obama has been.

Get out and get some fresh air. Talk to a few business owners or just plain old employees outside of your comfort zone. I did. Spoke with a guy today that voted for Obama the first time around. He sells cleaning supplies out of Richmond. September was the worst month his company had ever seen since it opened it's doors over thirty years ago.

Also spoke with a commercial landlord today. He'd spent almost his last dollar razing some old buildings and putting in a brand new shopping strip. Work was done almost eight months ago and he's still only 30% occupied. He can't even give the empty spaces away.

What do you think Virginia is going to look like once 207,000 additional people lose their jobs due to sequestration? Plus all the jobs that wont be required to support those 207,000?

Fuck Romney's taxes from three years ago. What is Obama going to do about mine after January 1st?

Between 22 and 31 trillion dollars sits offshore in tax havens.

A lot of the QE money is going offshore. They know full well that eventually the dollar will have a sharp decline due to unsustainability of the deficits and the Fed printing money.