Reference: CBS ~ 60 Minutes Feature: Parents holding back children so they can be bigger, more mature, & more advanced academically relative to their younger classmates seems to be problematic in the Fairfax County School System. Is this practice out of control *or* are there guidelines to prevent parents' from abusing the age criteria?

If it gives the child an advantage, and within the rules of FCPS I guess there is no problem.

Advice: it depends on the child. Don't do it just to make him/her the oldest in the class.

In my experience, the child who benefits the most is the one who is just immature--but not necessarily the "slowest". Is he independent? When is his birthday? Does he prefer playing with younger children? Is the child smaller than other children his age? Are there other things in his life that would make it better to wait a year?

Generally, I think kids belong with their age group. If I had a boy with a late summer or September birthday, I probably would hold him out a year. If he is older than that I probably would not unless he were very immature.

Remember, these kids eventually go to high school, and, hopefully, to college. Do you really want your child going to college at 17 (if he has Sept. birthday)?

Very important: what does the pre-school teacher say?

Bottom line: depends on the child.

I think it's totally not fair for the rest of the families who are playing by the rules! My premature twins were born 6 weeks early, on Sept. 21. - 10 days before the kindergarten cut off date. My twins will turn 2 a couple weeks after school starts, so they will mostly likely be the youngest, about 2-3 years for those parents who decided to redshirt their child (born well in advance of the cut off date) to gain "an edge" academically and physically. This is flat out wrong, and I feel for the youngest ones who may develop poor self esteem issues and will be picked last for a ball game. :( There really should be some new rules/Policies set.

I'm the single mom with the twins born 6 weeks early with a Sept 21 birthday. I really wish I could hold my twins back when the time comes (they are eligible for kindy in a couple years) but I can't afford it as a single mom on a income.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 06:38PM by Aimee.

Aimee,

All you have to do is keep your children home a year. In many systems, Sept 1 is the cut-off date. Your children are the perfect age for "red-shirting".

It's not "playing by the rules" that matters. It is your child. There is no "rule" that says you have to send your children to Kindergarten when they are still 4. The schools have to set a date somewhere.

And, think about this, if your children had not been premature, they would have missed the cut-off date. I would guess they stayed in the hospital a little longer, didn't they? Didn't they need to "catch up"? I don't think anyone is "redshirting" their child for 2-3 years. That would not be allowed. ( I think there is a rule that the child has to be in school by a certain time. I don't know what it is in Virginia.)

For the record, there are children who do fine who are the youngest. But, if my child had a September birthday, I would probably keep him back unless he was extremely mature.

Another issue is the sports. The youth sports often go by age-and not by grade. A child with a September birthday might be playing with children who are a grade behind. I know soccer used to be Sept 1. My neighbor's daughter started K with a September birthday and had to play with teams that were a grade behind.

Again, it is something to consider and it depends on the child. I have seen exceptions to the rule, but I would give it serious consideration. (I taught K and first grade.)

My parents had the same option but decided against it.
I was barely old enough to start kindergarten when I did and
was usually the youngest in my class. Yes, sometimes there
was bullying but I got over it once I was old enough to consider
the source. I graduated from hs at the age of 17 and enlisted in
the military a few days later. Four years later I was honorably
discharged three months before my 21st birthday. Graduated from
college with a 3.8 gpa and had a very successful career. Later,
at a hs reunion I recognized some of those who were supposed to
be the cream of the crop (at least according to some of our teachers)
and they haven't been anymore successful than I have. One good
laugh though was one of the meanest bullies I had to deal with
couldn't make it because he's in prison. One of our former teachers
attended and she was one who singled me out as being "immature"
and I was able to point out to her that I was making more money
than the local County School Superintendent so evidently her criticism
didn't pan out so well. I hope she rots.

Yes, my twins were in the NICU for a few weeks so they could grow and eat before I could take them home.

I would definitely hold my twins back if I could afford it but I can't, and there are many parents who are unable to now due to the economic decline. It frustrates me that some Parents are sending their 5 yr old to private kindergarten and redshirting them and than transferring them into the public school system so they can gain that edge. I find it quite disturbing and I really feel for my kids. If I can't hold them back due to finances, I'll try my hardest to have them repeat kindergarten. Guess I'll have to work with the teacher on this?

I really think that kids should not be entering kindergarten at age 4, the cut off date should be Aug. 31 or Sept. 1 since school starts Sept. 4.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 07:08PM by Aimee.

Thank you former teacher, I really appreciate your thoughts and support on this matter. I guess I'll cross the bridge when I come to it.

Yes, with VYS (Vienna youth soccer) the cut off is July 31 so they will be near the oldest but it doesn't matter when they reach high school. I'm a former All American HS athlete where size and age mattered.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 07:31PM by Aimee.

Aimee,

Cross the bridge when it is time. Enjoy your children--and don't worry. Love them and, above all, talk to them and read to them. Don't worry about the decision now. They might just be those kids who fit right in at an early age. If not, repeating K is not a bad thing--if it is right. I taught a first grader once who bragged to the rest of the class about having been in first grade the year before. He thrived the second year. (He was one of those "immature" kids--not slow, just immature.)

Kids love to hear the same books over and over--but try to introduce new books, too. When you read to them, look at the pictures and point out things At two, they usually love rhyming books.

When you are out in the car, point to signs and talk about what they say. STOP was the first word my own children learned to read! Take them to the grocery store and spend some time in the produce section talking about the different foods. Count with them, etc. These are some of the best things you can do to prepare your children for school.

I didn't have twins, but I know that one toddler can be exhausting, I can only imagine how tired you must get. Try to make a game of putting things away and teach them some responsibility (I was a teacher, but I was not very good about this with my own children. This advice follows the "do as I say" not the "do as I did"! I wish I had developed better household habits with my own kids.)
Above all, just enjoy them. I know you don't believe me, but when they are twenty, you will wonder where the time went--and wish that, just for a day, they were two again.

Thanks former teacher, I'll stop worrying and enjoy my munchkins, than cross the bridge when the time comes. ;)

I just recently registered my 4 yr old (will be 5 in May) for kindergarten, which has me really thinking about my twins who were born early and will be 4 when they enter kindergarten.

I just wish the state would reconsider the date that kids can enter kindergarten.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 07:45PM by Aimee.

Red shirting is indeed a fascinating phenomenon. Generally speaking, I would steer your children away from career paths in either ship's security or engineering. These 2 paths require all personnel to don the dreaded red-shirt which typically leads to a fatality after beaming down to a planet's surface.

Your other alternative, if they insist on a career in security or engineering and who are you to deny them...is to tell them to simply call in sick on the day they've been selected to join the away team. Crewmembers who have illnesses are generally confined to their quarters or sickbay and thus would avoid being beamed down and the ensuing fatality.

former teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Advice: it depends on the child. Don't do it just
> to make him/her the oldest in the class.
>
> In my experience, the child who benefits the most
> is the one who is just immature--but not
> necessarily the "slowest". Is he independent?
> When is his birthday? Does he prefer playing with
> younger children? Is the child smaller than other
> children his age? Are there other things in his
> life that would make it better to wait a year?
>
> Generally, I think kids belong with their age
> group. If I had a boy with a late summer or
> September birthday, I probably would hold him out
> a year. If he is older than that I probably would
> not unless he were very immature.
>
> Remember, these kids eventually go to high school,
> and, hopefully, to college. Do you really want
> your child going to college at 17 (if he has Sept.
> birthday)?
>
> Very important: what does the pre-school teacher
> say?
>
> Bottom line: depends on the child.

I was born in October and was not held back. I was 17 when I graduated AND when I started college. I was bred to excel and I always did in all that I pursued. I knew I was at a huge disadvantage but, you know what? Back in those days, we didn't shirk from the lot we had been cast into.

I'm 40 now. I attended UVA for undergrad and later Georgetown Law. I am currently a practicing intellectual properties attorney, married with 3 children, a home in Great Falls and a home in Siesta Key, FL, a 42' sailboat, and a 38' powerboat, a 1969 Jaguar E-Type, a Land Rover LR4, a Chrysler Town and Country and a 1967 Corvette convertible.

Oh sure, kids were held back ALL the time...when their teachers and principals and guidance counselors and parents joined together to make an informed decision. Not becaue Mom and Dad were trying to cheat the system.

Depends on the child...and apparently, depends on the era.

Aimee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks former teacher, I'll stop worrying and
> enjoy my munchkins, than cross the bridge when the
> time comes. ;)
>
> I just recently registered my 4 yr old (will be 5
> in May) for kindergarten, which has me really
> thinking about my twins who were born early and
> will be 4 when they enter kindergarten.
>
> I just wish the state would reconsider the date
> that kids can enter kindergarten.

I am pretty sure in Fairfax Co. they must be 5 to start kindergarten. Also, check into the head start program. Its kind of pre-school for people in your situation. I tried to get in, but made to much money. Not all schools have it and there is probably a waiting list.

With an October birthday, that's most beneficial in Fairfax County, because a child just turns 6. You have to be 5 by Sept. 31 in order to be eligible for kindergarten. school starts Sept. 4th

Most schools have a cut off date right before school starts, but not Fairfax county! You can be 4 yrs old for a full month in kindergarten, while some kids will be turning 6 oct. 1st, and the kids that were redshirted can be approx 2 yrs older!

PS my kids don't qualify for head start, I make more than the eligible amount.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2012 09:44PM by Aimee.

Youngen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I was born in October and was not held back. I was
> 17 when I graduated AND when I started college. I
> was bred to excel and I always did in all that I
> pursued. I knew I was at a huge disadvantage but,
> you know what? Back in those days, we didn't shirk
> from the lot we had been cast into.
>
> I'm 40 now. I attended UVA for undergrad and later
> Georgetown Law. I am currently a practicing
> intellectual properties attorney, married with 3
> children, a home in Great Falls and a home in
> Siesta Key, FL, a 42' sailboat, and a 38'
> powerboat, a 1969 Jaguar E-Type, a Land Rover LR4,
> a Chrysler Town and Country and a 1967 Corvette
> convertible.
>
> Oh sure, kids were held back ALL the time...when
> their teachers and principals and guidance
> counselors and parents joined together to make an
> informed decision. Not becaue Mom and Dad were
> trying to cheat the system.
>
> Depends on the child...and apparently, depends on
> the era.


Was the entire point of your post just an excuse to brag and show-off?

snowdenscold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Youngen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I was born in October and was not held back. I
> was
> > 17 when I graduated AND when I started college.
> I
> > was bred to excel and I always did in all that
> I
> > pursued. I knew I was at a huge disadvantage
> but,
> > you know what? Back in those days, we didn't
> shirk
> > from the lot we had been cast into.
> >
> > I'm 40 now. I attended UVA for undergrad and
> later
> > Georgetown Law. I am currently a practicing
> > intellectual properties attorney, married with
> 3
> > children, a home in Great Falls and a home in
> > Siesta Key, FL, a 42' sailboat, and a 38'
> > powerboat, a 1969 Jaguar E-Type, a Land Rover
> LR4,
> > a Chrysler Town and Country and a 1967 Corvette
> > convertible.
> >
> > Oh sure, kids were held back ALL the
> time...when
> > their teachers and principals and guidance
> > counselors and parents joined together to make
> an
> > informed decision. Not becaue Mom and Dad were
> > trying to cheat the system.
> >
> > Depends on the child...and apparently, depends
> on
> > the era.
>
>
> Was the entire point of your post just an excuse
> to brag and show-off?

No, it was to prove that it's possible to be younger than those in the same graduating class and still achieve something in this life.

Youngen. You are still overcompensating for some inadequacy. Take a chill brother and go drink a beer or two. You're in love for yourself...handclap please.

Dr. Fill Me Up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Youngen. You are still overcompensating for some
> inadequacy. Take a chill brother and go drink a
> beer or two. You're in love for
> yourself...handclap please.


This. The laundry list of material posessions and status symbols was a bit over the top, eh?

I can't sleep tonight because all I do is worry about my children.
They cannot function without me and if I miss a minute they might
die. They will never know what to eat or wear unless I tell them.
They will starve within two days if I don't watch out for them 24/7.
Is the laundry done? Do they have plenty of Wisconsin Black Wax
cheese in the fridge? My poor little babies might get their feet
wet so I'll always call and ask them if they have their umbrella's
and rainboots handy, wear their gloves and make sure they don't catch
cold. If I don't call them every twenty minutes to see how they're
doing they might be lost or kidnapped by pirates so they'd better
answer the phone within two rings or I'm calling 911.

Surely you can understand because they're only 24 and 25 years old.

Love,
Mommy

this is an interesting phenomena and I saw it in the AAP program, the kid was actually two years older than most of the other kids (my kid has a Sept birthday is he is usually a year younger anyway), so he was taller and "sort of GT", though didnt seem very bright, just older...I don't think it is a good idea on many different levels.

Fairfax Helicopter Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't sleep tonight because all I do is worry
> about my children.
> They cannot function without me and if I miss a
> minute they might
> die. They will never know what to eat or wear
> unless I tell them.
> They will starve within two days if I don't watch
> out for them 24/7.
> Is the laundry done? Do they have plenty of
> Wisconsin Black Wax
> cheese in the fridge? My poor little babies might
> get their feet
> wet so I'll always call and ask them if they have
> their umbrella's
> and rainboots handy, wear their gloves and make
> sure they don't catch
> cold. If I don't call them every twenty minutes to
> see how they're
> doing they might be lost or kidnapped by pirates
> so they'd better
> answer the phone within two rings or I'm calling
> 911.
>

Thanks for your sarcasm, it wasn't appreciated.


> Surely you can understand because they're only 24
> and 25 years old.
>
> Love,
> Mommy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2012 07:49AM by Aimee.

Yeah...worked well for the Lalich family, who had their son held back for an extra year in middle school so that he would be "bigger and stronger" to play football in high school.

http://www.collegesportsfeed.com/the-curious-case-of-peter-lalich/

Too bad they didn't concentrate less on his football readiness and more on his attitude and life skills.

orangefanta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> didnt seem very bright, just older...

My daughter will be graduating when she's 17 - she's in kindergarten now. I'd never hold her back as that's wasting a year of her life. She easily able to keep up with any of her peers and excels in most areas. Why would any parent hold their child back needlessly? I mean, unless they're raising a retard.

All retard-rising parents here, please raise your hands.

Dr. Fill Me Up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Youngen. You are still overcompensating for some
> inadequacy. Take a chill brother and go drink a
> beer or two. You're in love for
> yourself...handclap please.

You're right...I am overcompensating and I always will be. You know why? Because I was born in October and I grew up in the 703. All my life people have been telling me, "I'm too young...", "I'm not tall enough or strong enough for sports..."

And of course I'm in love with myself...no one else is. So, if I don't love myself, no one else will.

Again, I'm not saying I'm better than anyone...I'm simply stating that being born late in the schooling cycle is not the handicap many seem to think it is.

My classmates used to tease me about being the youngest in the group.
We had our 40 year reunion last year and they aren't teasing me anymore.
In fact I'm teasing them now.

Youngen Wrote:
>
> I was born in October and was not held back. I was
> 17 when I graduated AND when I started college. I
> was bred to excel and I always did in all that I
> pursued. I knew I was at a huge disadvantage but,
> you know what? Back in those days, we didn't shirk
> from the lot we had been cast into.
>
> I'm 40 now. I attended UVA for undergrad and later
> Georgetown Law. I am currently a practicing
> intellectual properties attorney, married with 3
> children, a home in Great Falls and a home in
> Siesta Key, FL, a 42' sailboat, and a 38'
> powerboat, a 1969 Jaguar E-Type, a Land Rover LR4,
> a Chrysler Town and Country and a 1967 Corvette
> convertible.
>
> Oh sure, kids were held back ALL the time...when
> their teachers and principals and guidance
> counselors and parents joined together to make an
> informed decision. Not becaue Mom and Dad were
> trying to cheat the system.
>
> Depends on the child...and apparently, depends on
> the era.


A couple of points:

1) if you are born in October, there is not an issue of being held back or not, unless there are developmental issues;

2) you are the only person I have seen call himself or herself an "intellectual propertIES" attorney in my 25 years of practicing in the field of "intellectual propertY", so I wonder if that really is your area of practice; and

3) your arm must be hurting quite a bit from patting yourself on the back so much writing that post!

Every child is different.

As a parent, I would have hated to have my child be the youngest in his class in high school. That is just my opinion.

As a K and first grade teacher, I have seen many kids with late birthdays struggle. I have also seen kids with early birthdays struggle. Most boys that I taught with late birthdays would have benefited from being held back. Some of the girls would have, as well. There are certainly exceptions to this observation. For example, I taught one boy who was extremely large and had a late birthday--he was the youngest in the class. I have to admit that my expectations for him were greater than some of the other kids because of his size--he was the largest kid in the class. Every morning, I would remind myself: "remember, he is only 5--even though he looks 7". I think I even wrote it in my planner. Had he been held back a year, he would have been a bully because of his size.

Each child is different. But, again, as a parent, I would not want a very young high school student. I have a friend who started her daughter early. When she was in high school, her mother often asked: Why didn't anyone warn me about high school? The child had thrived in primary grades because she was extremely smart. But, in high school she was thrust into situations for which she just did not have the maturity.

Aimee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With an October birthday, that's most beneficial
> in Fairfax County, because a child just turns 6.
> You have to be 5 by Sept. 31 in order to be
> eligible for kindergarten. school starts Sept.
> 4th
>
> Most schools have a cut off date right before
> school starts, but not Fairfax county! You can be
> 4 yrs old for a full month in kindergarten, while
> some kids will be turning 6 oct. 1st, and the kids
> that were redshirted can be approx 2 yrs older!
>
> PS my kids don't qualify for head start, I make
> more than the eligible amount.

All the people that I know never have regrets about holding a child back for a year, on the other hand, the ones that put new 5 yr. olds in are the ones with the regrets.

Aimee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fairfax Helicopter Parent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can't sleep tonight because all I do is worry
> > about my children.
> > They cannot function without me and if I miss a
> > minute they might
> > die. They will never know what to eat or wear
> > unless I tell them.
> > They will starve within two days if I don't
> watch
> > out for them 24/7.
> > Is the laundry done? Do they have plenty of
> > Wisconsin Black Wax
> > cheese in the fridge? My poor little babies
> might
> > get their feet
> > wet so I'll always call and ask them if they
> have
> > their umbrella's
> > and rainboots handy, wear their gloves and make
> > sure they don't catch
> > cold. If I don't call them every twenty minutes
> to
> > see how they're
> > doing they might be lost or kidnapped by
> pirates
> > so they'd better
> > answer the phone within two rings or I'm
> calling
> > 911.
> >
>
> Thanks for your sarcasm, it wasn't appreciated.
>
>
> > Surely you can understand because they're only
> 24
> > and 25 years old.
> >
> > Love,
> > Mommy

There is help for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb0OQtLa2bU

Robin said:

"All the people that I know never have regrets about holding a child back for a year, on the other hand, the ones that put new 5 yr. olds in are the ones with the regrets."

+1000

Speaking from personal experience parents should NOT do this. I was placed into Kindergarten a year older than the rest of my class mates and it sucked pretty much throughout all 12 years. You develop a lot slower for your age because you are around kids a year younger than you are so you sort of develop an identity issue. Next, no one fully understands that it was your parents who placed you into school late so of course kids start to think you're dumb and got held back. Lastly, you graduate when you are 19 years old and the rest of your friends are all 18. Yeah there are some advantages like driving earlier and turning 18 before everyone else but you feel weird and in my opinion it only damages a child. I feel Fairfax should put a stop to this.

Concerned Dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My daughter will be graduating when she's 17 -
> she's in kindergarten now. I'd never hold her
> back as that's wasting a year of her life. She
> easily able to keep up with any of her peers and
> excels in most areas. Why would any parent hold
> their child back needlessly? I mean, unless
> they're raising a retard.
>

You had me up until the last line. Education/learning doesn't begin or end at school, and if parents are in a position to do it they can probably do more to help a child's education and physical development if they keep the child out than if they put the child in. What's best for some kids isn't best for others, and what works out given the situation of kid's parents may not work out given the situation of another kid's parents.

Age cutoffs were designed based on "typical" kids development, but not all children develop at the same pace, and some children can be typical or even advanced in some things while being behind in others. Parents are in a much better position to know whether their kid is ready or not. And I don't see much of a difference between parents who wants to hold their kids behind simply so that the kid can be bigger, more mature, & more advanced academically than their classmates and parents who want to rush their kids into school ASAP so they can cut down on daycare costs.

I was one of those "premature twins" that someone talked about earlier in the thread. I was born in late September and went to school at age 4 (turning 5). I do think that I had a hard time in kindergarten (I missed being with my twin in kindergarten and then they put us back together in first grade), but after that I was fine (and we were separated in second grade and we both did well). I was always at the head of my class and graduated in the upper 5% of a 500 student senior class (so I don't think being young hurt me). I was only 17 when I went to college and I graduated in 4 years with no problem. I was never an athlete and I was always on the small side (until high school). I never felt badly about that because my parents made sure I had other outlets (music, scouts, theater). I never felt weird or different---I always had friends. I basically think that people obsess too much about all of this. Your childhood is not going to be perfect. I did fine being a younger kid in my classes. I would not redshirt a kid unless I saw some real deficits in cognitive development. I don't think being physically small is a good enough reason to redshirt a kid.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Education/learning doesn't begin or end at school,
> and if parents are in a position to do it they can
> probably do more to help a child's education and
> physical development if they keep the child out
> than if they put the child in.

Agreed to a point. My daughter started in a toddler class at 2-1/2. She is an only child so we were concerned with socialization. She's continued in a Montessori program through K, where she now is at age 5. She was reading simple words by her 3rd birthday, has mastered the 4 basic math functions and now easily works with polynomial cubes, and does well with French (started in preschool and can converse in Russian as well thanks to mom teaching at home). Today at the kitchen table she was drawing and when I asked about it, she said "I'm drawing Van Gogh sunflowers!" and can tell you about Matisse and Cezanne as well. As I write this she's practicing piano and I hear the sounds of Beethoven coming from downstairs. She's performed well at two recitals so far. Tonight she read to me several chapters of 'A Dolphin Tale'.

She does swimming several nights per week and can do laps with the backstroke, breaststroke and is now mastering the butterfly. If she continues, she'll be on a swimteam this fall.

Kids are learning sponges at this young age. Why would anyone deny their child the opportunity to absorb as much knowledge as possible when they are learning machines, both mentally and physically?

Maybe I misspoke in asking if the kids are retarded. Perhaps it's more attributable to the parents being such.

I do think you run the risk of your kid being bored in school if you redshirt. There is a family on my street that redshirted all 3 of their kids---just based on some sort of "principle" that the mother had about doing it. Well, the girl did fine with it, but the 2 boys were bored. The youngest one hangs out with kids who are a year older (and always has). He's now in high school. I'm sure he'll be fine, but he is socially more attuned to older kids. He has always been an honors kid academically and I think he would have been if he had been in his age cohort anyway. I don't think he'll be redshirting his own kids.

If your kid is ready to go to school, send him/her. If not, don't. Pretty simple for most of us.

> I was born in October and was not held back. I was
> 17 when I graduated AND when I started college. I
> was bred to excel and I always did in all that I
> pursued. I knew I was at a huge disadvantage but,
> you know what? Back in those days, we didn't shirk
> from the lot we had been cast into.
>
> I'm 40 now. I attended UVA for undergrad and later
> Georgetown Law. I am currently a practicing
> intellectual properties attorney, married with 3
> children, a home in Great Falls and a home in
> Siesta Key, FL, a 42' sailboat, and a 38'
> powerboat, a 1969 Jaguar E-Type, a Land Rover LR4,
> a Chrysler Town and Country and a 1967 Corvette
> convertible.
>
> Oh sure, kids were held back ALL the time...when
> their teachers and principals and guidance
> counselors and parents joined together to make an
> informed decision. Not becaue Mom and Dad were
> trying to cheat the system.
>
> Depends on the child...and apparently, depends on
> the era.


Who wants to live in Great Falls? Most of the houses have septic tanks. The McMansions are energy wasting furniture warehouses. They probably have $800/mo electric bills. You probably would not get into UVA today.

Kids who have late summer bdays are often held back. This gives an unfair advantage over the boys who went to school when they were eligible. These same kids have mothers who do their school work so they can get A's and go to UVA.

jerk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I was born in October and was not held back. I
> was
> > 17 when I graduated AND when I started college.
> I
> > was bred to excel and I always did in all that
> I
> > pursued. I knew I was at a huge disadvantage
> but,
> > you know what? Back in those days, we didn't
> shirk
> > from the lot we had been cast into.
> >
> > I'm 40 now. I attended UVA for undergrad and
> later
> > Georgetown Law. I am currently a practicing
> > intellectual properties attorney, married with
> 3
> > children, a home in Great Falls and a home in
> > Siesta Key, FL, a 42' sailboat, and a 38'
> > powerboat, a 1969 Jaguar E-Type, a Land Rover
> LR4,
> > a Chrysler Town and Country and a 1967 Corvette
> > convertible.
> >
> > Oh sure, kids were held back ALL the
> time...when
> > their teachers and principals and guidance
> > counselors and parents joined together to make
> an
> > informed decision. Not becaue Mom and Dad were
> > trying to cheat the system.
> >
> > Depends on the child...and apparently, depends
> on
> > the era.
>
>
> Who wants to live in Great Falls? Most of the
> houses have septic tanks. The McMansions are
> energy wasting furniture warehouses. They
> probably have $800/mo electric bills. You
> probably would not get into UVA today.
>
> Kids who have late summer bdays are often held
> back. This gives an unfair advantage over the
> boys who went to school when they were eligible.
> These same kids have mothers who do their school
> work so they can get A's and go to UVA.

Who wants to live in Great Falls? I do. My home does not have a septic tank and my average electric bill is $520 month. Maybe I could get into UVA maybe I couldn't...it doesn't really matter as I have no NEED to get into UVA now.

Yes, I know the kids you mean...

Back to the topic...

I'm a parent of 3; two had spring b-days but our last has a mid-September b-day and would've had an early Oct. b-day had she not been born at 37 weeks (full-term, healthy, and no NICU services needed). Anyway, I not only do not plan to hold her back until she's 5 or 6 but have been wondering how to figure out if she'll be ready to start kindergarten next fall before she turns 4. Does the school system test young children for this possibility? I don't want her to be held in preschool as a four-year-old if she would benefit from a more enriched environment.

A former preschool director we know has told me she's sure our child is gifted. She was speaking in full sentences at 9 months and is thriving in a part-time preschool this year. The only concern I have is that she seems to be far more mature than the other kids socially and seems to fit in better when she plays with older children in the family and neighborhood. Similarly, at home she long ago moved beyond age-appropriate games and toddler-oriented books in our house (we probably have the county's largest children's book collection outside the library) to embrace stories from grade-school collections.

One of our other children is in gifted education services that waited until she was identified through the usual testing. But with this child, I wonder if we'll do her an injustice if we keep her in a holding pattern simply because her age doesn't describe her rate of social and intellectual maturation.

Do any teachers reading this message board have opinions on this dilemma?

Well, we don't issue green shirts to anyone on the Enterprise so, green-shirting is not really an option...

They need to make those kids start a grade higher and then fail them

Don't do it. I know of several children who were put two years ahead and the parents later regretted it.

Certainly, start her when she is four-she sounds like one of those who would thrive being the youngest--but to be the youngest by more than a year-don't do it.
Sure, it might work fine, but the odds and studies would work against you.

I don't think FCPS would allow her to start early, but possibly a private K would. I would not do it under any circumstances. Also, children blossom at different times and she has benefited from a rich environment. Chances are that she is always going to be ahead of her class no matter where she is. Work on teaching her to be kind and patient with others and to appreciate her own gifts. Work on helping her see that others have talents that she may not have. Try to teach her tolerance.


I recall my son telling me when he was in high school about a boy in his class who was "the smartest kid he has ever known". But, he said, "Mom, he's not obnoxious. He doesn't treat the rest of us like we are idiots." That kid will go far.

I was a Dec baby and was not held back. Not only was I 4 when I started K, I didn't know any English. I went to college on 4 yr scholarship. Now I wish there was a way I can start my little girl this year when she's 4. baby. She is as mature and as big as kids two years older than her. Kids usually rise to the challenge.

Kids do not "usually rise to the challenge:...I went to school at 5, skipped a grade and started college at 15, too soon. This is especially true for boys where size counts.

+1. Especially at Penn State.

Kham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was a Dec baby and was not held back. Not only
> was I 4 when I started K, I didn't know any
> English. I went to college on 4 yr scholarship.
> Now I wish there was a way I can start my little
> girl this year when she's 4. baby. She is as
> mature and as big as kids two years older than
> her. Kids usually rise to the challenge.


Not sure if this is still true, but the rule used to be that a child whose birthday fell after September 30 could not start kindergarten at age 4 or first grade at age 5. However if you placed the child in private kindergarten AND first grade the child could transfer in at second grade without being held back.

Now whether this is a good idea is another matter. A child may be intellectually ready to handle school at a younger age, but not emotionally, socially or physically. Most parents of "little geniuses" will either assume their kid will be able to adjust, or will assume those things don't matter. Well sometimes they do adjust and sometimes they don't, and when they don't IT DOES MATTER. We had one late September kid and for the first two years it was very iffy whether we made the right decision to put the kid into school early rather than holding back. In the end he did fine, but then again he was only 13 months or so younger than the oldest kid in his class. It might be different if the age difference had been 18 months or more.

One thing to remember is that int his area there are alternatives other than starting school early. There are many very good preschool programs that will let your kid get off to an early start, and there are also plenty of other opportunities for your child's enrichment outside of school, both of which would let your child go through school with kids his own age.

Does the Fairfax County School System have some sensible policies and procedures to ensure Red-Shirting is not abused? If so, are they in writing and where can they be found?

Very good question fairness, I would only hope that Fairfax County (where red shirting is prevalent) would enforce some reasonable policies.

Parents who hold back a child who's already five in September from starting kindergarten that season simply because they think they're gaining some advantage for the child are overlooking a social disadvantage as another consequence. Anytime a child in my kid's grade has a b-day party in September to turn nearly a year older than everyone else I assume the child is, well, not that bright.

Red-shirting seems appropriate and necessary if a child has severe developmental delays. If you're doing it for an advantage, you're making everyone think your child is in that category. Or, if it becomes apparent that your kid is smarter than you've given him/her credit for being by holding him back, we might assume that you as parents are so pathetically insecure and competitive that needed to game the system by ensuring your kid is some kind of giant frog hanging with tadpoles.

Started both kids in Kindergarten at a “young” 5yrs old. Both summer babies but 4yrs apart. Oldest handled it fine up through HS. Youngest did not. We made a huge error in having youngest start after barely turning 5.

Youngest was physically and mentally behind others in his grades. Emotionally however was way ahead of others his age. Spouse and I thought youngest would be OK because he acted so mature and people were amazed in his ability to relate to adults and hold a conversation.

We failed. We were wrong.

My advice – and please know it is worth only what you think it’s worth – is to go with what your gut truly feels. You’ll know what that feeling is.

Intuition is a very powerful tool if it is used right.

I wish anyone who is in a similar situation the very best of luck with their decision for it is not an easy one whatsoever.

makes your kid look dumb:

"Parents who hold back a child who's already five in September from starting kindergarten that season simply because they think they're gaining some advantage for the child are overlooking a social disadvantage as another consequence. Anytime a child in my kid's grade has a b-day party in September to turn nearly a year older than everyone else I assume the child is, well, not that bright"

That is a pitiful comment. A parent who would be concerned about this is a parent who cares more what other people think rather than looking out for the best interests of the child.

I've taught many "immature" kids who could academically keep up-or exceed--older kids in the class-but needed another year to grow.

Anyone who thinks that October 1 is a magic date that determines readiness for school is quite dumb.

The principal at Robinson, Meier has held back all 3 of his sons 1 year because he wants to give them the advantage in athletics since they would suck dick if they didnt have that extra year on every other kid. They are nearly 20 years old when they graduate from hs depending on their birthday