"From the South County ChronicleReader's Viewpoint-South County Middle School Needed
Published: Thursday, November 1, 2007 10:54 AM EDT


Why should parents with children attending Hayfield, Lee, West Springfield, or Lake Braddock high schools care whether South County parents get a new middle school built? Because, along with the 19,000 Army jobs coming to Fort Belvoir main post and the Engineer Proving Grounds, the county predicts an additional 3,200 kids in the area. Given that South County Secondary School (SCSS) already has trailers, if the South County Middle School (SCMS) is not built in the next two to three years, these new students will be pushed into all of the surrounding schools. Thus, West Springfield, Hayfield, Lee and Lake Braddock will be overflowing.

Despite this impending tsunami of students, Fairfax County School's Capital Improvement Plan (CIP) has SCMS slated for 2017.

How did such poor planning occur? It is really no one's fault. The CIP was developed before the massive development occurred in Lorton and before the Army announced the relocation of 19,000 jobs to South County and central Springfield. At the time, SCMS was not really needed.

The purpose of this letter to the editor is not to cast blame, but to offer some solutions:


1. The current CIP is based on outdated demographic information. Any rational person will agree that the CIP needs to be re-ordered based on current information.

2. Use the Public/Private School Construction plan that the South County parents and I developed for the South County Secondary School to build the school quickly. It worked with SCSS, so it will work with SCMS.

3. Leverage adjacent county-owned land to build a school. There are vacant county-owned parcels in South County that could be sold to help pay the cost of SCMS. For example, the county is contemplating selling land it owns at the Vulcan quarry area off of Ox Road and using the money to pay for a park it has already purchased. While the Park Authority won't want to spend park money on a school project, the county Board of Supervisors needs to stop in-fighting amongst county departments and use the money to build a school.

4. Play hardball with the Army. They are moving 3,200 kids to our South County school system. Make them step up and deliver some funding for the school.

5. The school board needs to immediately budget the planning money for SCMS to keep it moving forward.

6. The county is using new authority granted by the state's Transportation Act of 2007 to charge fees on commercial offices for transportation improvements. But that bill also allows for impact fees on developers. However, the county is not implementing these new impact fees. While these new fees will not directly build a school, they will free up millions of dollars the county is currently using to pay for transportation bonds, which can then be used to pay for SCMS.

7. Voters need to elect school board members who support building SCMS now.

The purpose of government is to solve problems. Let's solve the problem of overcrowded schools and get SCMS built before the 3,200 new students arrive.

David B. Albo

Virginia Delegate"

Delegate Albo is missing some major points. All 19000 new jobs aren't going to involve people actually moving to Southern Fairfax County. The majority of the postions are already located in the the NoVA area and I can't imagine lots of parents willing to move from McLean to Lorton for an easier commute.

The 3200 potential new students will be spread amongst all 13 grades of FCPS not just secondary students. Say it is half (1600 new students). There are already more than 1600 empty seats between the schools that share boundaries with South County and that doesn't even include Mt. Vernon and its feeder middle school (which also borders the SCSS cachement area. The population is projected to decrease even further, creating more current vacancies

As a Fairfax taxpayer and parent, I do not want to see a middle school built until the numbers play out and the majority of the vacancies at the neighboring middle, secondary and high schools are filled.

Amen brother, amen! This is another sneaky attempt by the whiners in the SCSS area who don't want their kids at Hayfield or Lake Braddock where there is PLENTY of space. Wnat FCPS really needs is a system-wide boundary study which can be used to reset the priorities in the CIP. While the current CIP may not be perfect, there are a lot of schools which have patiently waited their turn for renovation and construction and the idea that people living in Crosspointe get to jump the line is simply wrong.

Anyone who purchased a home south of Silverbrook Road between 1995 and 2002 knew full well what their school options were and they should thank their lucky stars that FCPS found creative ways to get SCSS built quickly. Get over it and move on.

Del. Albo is not saying ALL (new) students brought in by BRAC will go to SCSS however, it is undeniable that many of them will. It is a popular area and one that is being built in vs. the "infill" in other parts of the county.

The fact that FC schools STILL cannot count students with any degree of accuracy is of greater concern than any part of this. Lake Braddock is on the verge of being overcrowded, despite FCPS saying it would hav a drop in students. Real numbers are HUNDREDS more now that the renovations are through.

Hayfield? Mason Neck SHOULD go there and be thankful for it. They did (beg) ask not to go to Mt. Vernon years ago, claiming that if they stayed at Hayfield, they would remain content. Apparently, not.

As far as others wanting to go to SCSS or the new SCMS/HS scenario, it was on the plans for decades to be there for them. It was due to creative financing (Thank you Pyramid Parents and Del. Albo for this). Hopefully they can do it again.

I recall in the mid-late 80's, Hayfield was the answer until "something was built" for the Silverbrook corridor. That was possible, once Lorton Prison closed. Land is available for the MS, just as it was for the HS (SCSS). It should be done and frankly, there is no plausable reason why it should not happen.

The third post's advocacy of "Creative financing" is exactly why I am concerned. Tiles were literally falling down from the Woodson ceilings because their renovations were pushed back by the premature building of South County. If falling debris had actually injured a student or staffer,there would have been hell to pay.

There are more than enough spaces between Hayfield and LB secondaries and the high schools of Lee, MV and WS (and their middle schools) to handle whatever additional 7th through 12th graders that BRAC may bring.

we just paid for renovations and an addition at Lake Braddock. hayfield is renovated. Mount Vernon is hundreds under. Dale wrote a letter to the feds and conveninetly forgot to include the Lake Braddock numbers in his letter - only included 4 schools. Also the NOOBS built about 500 extra seats at the new Glasgow and Falls Church HS is so empty it could hold a middle school.

Jackson is it's feeder middle school and they built an addition there. South County is surrounded by vacancies at renovated schools. The only one that's full is west Springfiled and it's not renovated.

My guess is other board members like Stu Gibson and Strauss sold their votes for this on pork like Langley -

I don't want to vote for anyone that will give them the new school.

Note they cancelled half the boundary process last fall for south cty but sent some east to hayfield.

How will these dolts ever get more money from Richmond when they do stuff like this?

ps-

I would not have minded a bigger south county secondary school but the current board built big ticket items out of bricks and mortar instead in other places: lake braddock addition, jackson addition, langley addition, part of the westfield addition, too big glasgow.

Now they're stuck and all should go except possibly Hunt. The bond referendum should not pass since a large part of it is porky -- what exactly is the scope of work on each job?

If you are in the Springfield District, do NOT vote for Liz Bradsher. She is the driving force for this irresponsible spending plan. Empty seats need to be filled in surrounding schools to see if another middleschool is truly needed.

the only person who I think has the nerve to stand up to her might be Arakelian -

gibson caved in last year so we all know what he expects people in Hunter Mill to pay for- the soco middle school. Where was his voice?

none of that school South Cty Secondary was free- I think there were revenue bonds. They act like it was a big fat proffer - No way. Bradsher would take $ from schools with leaking roofs to get this thing.

These people should become a special tax district and pay for it themselves.

Hold up. South County SECONDARY school is jsut that. A secondary school. In Fairfax County, that means that it is both a middle school and a high school in the same building. They dont need a new MS becuase they already have one.

Send the kids to Falls Church or Mt Vernon. Sure those schools suck, but hey, its cheap. And the government is poor.

And EVERY SINGLE western boundary needs to be moved east. All the schools in the west and center are at capacity/overcrowded. (except J-Mad?) Send them east.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> And EVERY SINGLE western boundary needs to be
> moved east. All the schools in the west and center
> are at capacity/overcrowded. (except J-Mad?) Send
> them east.

__________________________

While there is probably a good argument there, it would overcrowd the SCSS area further, making MORE of a case for the new Middle School

SCSS was never intended to be a Secondary School, only a HS.

Out west, their HS opened as a SS but in a year or two, went to a HS after the Middle school was built. Why has South County had to wait?

CT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The third post's advocacy of "Creative financing"
> is exactly why I am concerned. Tiles were
> literally falling down from the Woodson ceilings
> because their renovations were pushed back by the
> premature building of South County. If falling
> debris had actually injured a student or
> staffer,there would have been hell to pay.
>
> There are more than enough spaces between Hayfield
> and LB secondaries and the high schools of Lee, MV
> and WS (and their middle schools) to handle
> whatever additional 7th through 12th graders that
> BRAC may bring.

___________________________________________________________

LB does not and at the rate more families move into the LB area, there will not be room, period.

Hayfield DOES have room, but that means moving Mason Neck BACK to there - won't happen, I am afraid.

BRAC is a crap shoot where it lands, who knows.


If you have facts, present them -

It is absurd to assume all children generated due to BRAC will live in Lorton.

Lake Braddock has space but there is a distortion from the middle school GT center. Just be glad the whole pie isn't reworked.

Add up all these schools and there are more than 660 middle school and 1307 high school seats open as of september 2007.
whitman/mount vernon
hayfield/hayfield
key/lee
south county/south county
twain/edison
irving/west springfield
lake braddock/lake braddock
sandburg/west potomac

The Barrington and North Crosspointe folks should be attending Lake Braddock. It would alleviate the overcrowding at South County and use some of the unoccupied seats at LB.

I want to know why Tom Davis and Albo are involved in this. Don't they have enough to worry about in their respective positions at the federal and state levels? They are overstepping their bounds.

No middle school is needed!

The Fairfax Station area should be sent to Lake Braddock, it may be a little uncomfortable for a while but the FCPS predicts the entire area will be under capacity. Lake Braddock is a great school and South County is at the bottom. Send all of Fairfax Station to Lake Braddock now! Mason Neck should return to Hayfield or go to Mt. Vernon. A county wide boundary study is needed! Why should the tax payers pay for another school, we have the capacity at surrounding schools, USE IT!!!!

Well even if you don't live in Southern Fairfax but you ARE concerned about this potential misguided use of funds, complain to all the school board members and because they are getting involved, even your state and federal reps.

I just read the 2008-2012 D+FCPS CIP published last November. This is updated annually so a new one should be out any time. This CIP has current and projected enrollment for every school. There are enough seats in the surrounding schools to cover any overcrowding from South County.

I live in the Laurel Hill area of Lorton and agree with those who are against a South County Middle School. The numbers do not justify it and my 8th grade daugher thrives at the secondary school and sees no educational benefit to a middle school.

just saw the phrase "pandering to the mob" on another topic. That is what the pols are doing here. Also Gerry Connelly was quoted using the term legacy for himself and the whole Lorton to South County transformation.

What school board candidates will not bend and then build??

resource allocation,
The schools get nearly all of their funding from Gerry Connolly. Since the school board is nearly all democrats and so is the board of supervisors, everyone is very happy. The board of supervisors will always come up with the money to support their fellow democrats on the school board.

Watch Connolly and the board of supervisors raise our taxes next year to give the schools even more money they can waste.

If you care about the money being wasted, vote for republicans for the school board and the board of supervisors.

BTW, all facilities funding comes from the school bonds we vote for each November. The school board knows that's a bottomless pit of all the funds they want, school bonds ALWAYS pass, by wide margins.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2007 01:51AM by Neen.

Luther Jackson added an addition that resulted in 300 empty seats. What the heck? These people are clueless! Imagine ANY business that operated this way!

Liz Bradsher gave $300 to Stu Gibson's campaign. What does that tell you? We all know how Stu will vote, the same way he voted in the past, for more schools in South County.

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Luther Jackson added an addition that resulted in
> 300 empty seats. What the heck? These people are
> clueless! Imagine ANY business that operated this
> way!
>
> Liz Bradsher gave $300 to Stu Gibson's campaign.
> What does that tell you? We all know how Stu will
> vote, the same way he voted in the past, for more
> schools in South County.

please provide a link

Lake Braddock's population is projected to go down now and into the next five years. Hayfield does have space now but it will be filling up as Brac moves more in the area. South County over crowding can be alleviated by Lake Braddock. Hayfield did its part and is on course for a stable, diverse well utilized school after years of overcrowding, and wild swings of population and the problems that causes with discipline and programs in the school. Hayfield has been put through the ringers lost some of the best teachers, and in general been torn apart by the seemingly never ending boundary studies. Lake Braddock and Bradsheer pushed to return Hayfield on the brink of overcrowding again and were able to delay the obvious solution of using Lake Braddock to relieve the crowding and expense of trailers at South County. If they cannot come up with a tax free, no cost middle school then it is time for Lake Braddock to step up and take in more of Fairfax Station.

Hayfield needs more students, they should take back the Mason Neck area along with the rest of rt. 1. This will help South County. No middle school is needed, use Hayfield and Mt.Vernon now.

I agree that existing space should be used but I don't see why Hayfield and MV have to shoulder all the overflow. Use Lake Braddock's empty seats. They have a beautifully renovated school with lots of extra space to accomodate some of the students who live in the northwest corner of the current SCSS boundaries.

LB lover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that existing space should be used but I
> don't see why Hayfield and MV have to shoulder all
> the overflow. Use Lake Braddock's empty seats.
> They have a beautifully renovated school with lots
> of extra space to accomodate some of the students
> who live in the northwest corner of the current
> SCSS boundaries.

There are several large developements in that point on the left barbell of Silverbrook. Since we all are now well aware of the split feeders at many elementary schools in the West County boundary process I am even more appalled at the actions the school board engaged in last year. Franklin Farm and Crosspointe are in the same county. Plus there is a middle school gt center at Lake Braddock. Why there? Move it elsewhere ...

"Hayfield needs more students, they should take back the Mason Neck area along with the rest of rt. 1. This will help South County. No middle school is needed, use Hayfield and Mt.Vernon now."


Hayfield will be growing and they have taken back some of the area that left when South County opened. Frankly all of Lorton should be going to the high school located in Lorton including Mason Neck. Mount Vernon would be a haul in rush hour traffic for kids to be bussed from the South County area. If anything Hayfield should be left alone to relieve possible future overcrowding in nearby Alexandria Schools such as Edison,Lee and West Potomac. Leave Hayfield alone, we have had enough of South County and their parents looking down their noses at our community school. They all wanted to go to a new school and they all got it. Now that its crowded they want to disrupt Hayfield again. I say let them stay crowded or go to LBSS.

I might also add that the CIP numbers your looking at do not reflect the latest boundary change between South County and Hayfield. When the next CIP comes out next month you will see that Hayfield will have more population this year and into the out years due to the movement back of most of the Lorton Station area to Hayfield. Lake Braddock was included in the last boundary meeting and they were allowed to remain undercapacity in the out years in order for the South County community to find a way to build a middle school with out tax payer dollars. If a free school does not come about it will be time to adjust the boundary withe Lake Braddock. It is my understanding that Hayfield will not be included in any further boundary changes.

Hayfield, Mt. Vernon & Lake Braddock should be used when the next boundary study takes place. Move students from South County to Lake Braddock, but the school board should also use Mt. Vernon. Hayfield students should be shifted to Mt. Vernon, this school has been renovated and has more room than South Lakes. Talk about spending tax $$$$$$ and the school just sitting empty, what a joke. BRAC will not impact any school, so that argument is BULL SHIT. Mason Neck should go back to Hayfield, they have been at Hayfield for years. This would help out Hayfield a lot. A boundary study should take place for the entire Fairfax area.

You do not know what your talking about and obviously do not know the area in the South of the County. Tell me who would you shift from Hayfield to Mt. Vernon? Sure Mason Neck was at Hayfield but the number of school kids on the Neck is insignificant. Mason Neck did not cause the overcrowding at South County. We all know Mount Vernon is not utilized, but the problem is not the High School age kids it is the middle school The feeder middle school to Mt. Vernon is beyond capacity. What would you do send the Neck middle school kids to Hayfield or South County then pull them out to send them to Mount Vernon for High School? Please. The problem with Mt. Vernon is that it is not close to the Neck or the Hayfield area and to send kids there puts them on a bus trip miles away in rush hour traffic. If anything West Potomac could lose some kids and a shift be done that way then maybe a shift from Edison or Hayfield be done to West Potomac. Look at West Potomac boundaries! They have kids right next to Mount Vernon going north to West Potomac. I wonder if it has to do with the money in that area near Mount Vernon Plantation. And might I ask how does Mason Neck help Hayfield alot? If you think BRAC will have no impact on area schools then any argument you have just makes no common sense. 19,000 jobs coming, you dont think possibly some of those jobs will not bring families that want to be close to where they work?

It’s okay for the Fairfax Station area to endure a long bus ride to Lake Braddock, but when talk of moving Hayfield or Mason Neck to other schools, oh boy that is way too difficult for them. Fairfax Station would be better off at Lake Braddock, South County is a the bottom when it comes to test scores. Lake Braddock is a great school, the only problem the school board will over crowd that school. Hayfield lost too many students when the South County boundary was set up, it hurt Hayfield. They need students. Look at Hayfields test scores, not too good. Mount Vernon has empty seats. I don’t want any more of my money put into building or renovating schools when the school board will not use schools. I read BRAC will not impact schools at all. A county wide boundary change is need for all of Fairfax County, not just one or two schools.

dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ...We all know Mount
> Vernon is not utilized, but the problem is not the
> High School age kids it is the middle school ...

Whitman is not in it's attendance area. The CIP capacity numbers are:

Whitman 1000 [x 2=2000 ]> had 6 trailers on last years CIP when under capcity
Mount Vernon 2550
Sandburg 1400 [x2=2800]>has a Gt center including kids from Whitman
West Potomac 2200

Could boundaries be changed? Would students currently being transported to Sandburg be walkers to Whitman? If so how many busloads? Middle and high schools should have a 1:2 capacity ratio. If parents choose a K-8 private school then so be it. Transporting students from Mason neck anywhere other than South County is ridiculous yet I remember hearing anti Lake Braddock people using the fact that those people live in a remote area as a reason to ship them elsewhere. Only one bus for middle and high school should cruise that portion of the Gunston attendance area - that includes the middle school GTc. Why not have each secondary school serve it's own middle school GT population? They certainly have on-site access to academics.

Many Fairfax Station residents already attend Lake Braddock. If you look at a FCPS map, you would notice that the Lake Braddock boundaries extend much further south than the Silverbrook area. Kids who live in the Roseland development (right across the street from Crosspointe) are currently in the LB cachement area. Kids who live on Hampton Road (miles south of the North Silverbrook side of SC cachement area) attend Lake Braddock. Those kids have a longer busride than would any Barrington or North Crosspointe kid.

Look a County wide boundary study is needed I agree but it aint going to happen so get over it. Again I ask which Hayfield area would you bus to Mount Vernon? I thought you said Hayfield needs students you want to ship them out? Hayfield has gone through multiple boundary studies already because the School Board screwed it up and gave into everyone that couldn't wait to get out of Hayfield. Well good ridens, Hayfield is fine now. We have a steady population finally and are on course to grow an increase population over the next several years at a healthy rate. The ration of middle school to high school is ideal just let us be so we can work on creating a better community school without the upheaval of wildly flucuating numbers. Besides the folks you want to put back in Hayfield do not want to be here.

Dude,

You are right, the Mason Neck-Lorton area should be sent back to Hayfield, but they do not want to go. Maybe Hayfield is better off without them. But the entire Fairfax area needs a boundary change. I do not want to pay for any middle school(S) or school addition(S) when room is available at all schools. This has gotten way out of control. Mt. Vernon is under capacity, Hayfield is under capacity, South Lakes is under capacity and so on. Do you want to pay for more schools when we have capacity at all these schools? I don’t know what area of Hayfield would go to Mt. Vernon, but I’m sure the school board could figure it out. They need to look at all schools and readjust all the school boundaries.

Again I agree that the entire county should be looked at a boundaries redrawn. Unfortunately that is not going to happen. We asked all our board members involved with the schools in this area why they don't do an area wide boundary study and get it all done once and for all and were told that their is no political will to make something like that happen. Again I question what the use of this board is when it comes to boundary changes. Maybe this is a decision that should be taken away from the board, however I think the recommendation to do a change normally comes from the staff andor school supervisor. In any case, Hayfield has gone through this twice now and I know what South Lakes kids and parents are going through. They didnt ask for this but if the county Staff and Board feel that school resources are better used by changing the boundaries then I understand that. In the case with Hayfield students have been returned in the second go round of boundary studies. Yes there is capacity in the building but in mostly the High School side. We dont want to see a situation were students are sent for Middle school then sent back to another High school. The numbers will show a steady growth path for Hayfield now that the boundary was changed last year. Now it is Lake Braddocks turn to step up and get students. They also have capacity in the out years that could absorb the overcrowding at South County and then No a middle school would not have to be built early.

Dude-
Lake Braddock has been in three studies in a row. We can't take all the growth especially since we haven't been going down as predicted. Hayfield will ultimately be involved because 600 kids aren't going to Lake Braddock.

I didnt say it should be done in one all fell swoop. Besides these changes are incremental and grandfathered in. LBSS is projected to be losing numbers each of the next five years that is the fact. Hayfield numbers were flat before the last change and now will be going up with the last boundary change. If they didn't put more into Hayfield last time around why do you think they will go back and add more the next time around. Oh I know why, because you have Liz pushing to kick Lorton out of South County sending Hayfield back on the path of an overcrowded school again. If there is another study Hayfield should and I have word that it will not be involved.

Dude,
A fact check for you is that LBSS hasn't lost the kids they have been projected to lose for the last 2 years. In fact they are way over the projection. That is the fact jack.

If South County SS is in such a high income area, then why are the scores so low?? This doesn't make sense. Just drving past those neighborhoods, it looks solidly upper middle class. No aprtments, immigrants, gangs, etc. Are those Fairfax Station kids just dumb or are there bad teachers there?

LBSS is currently over 300 seats undercapacity.

I guess we will see this reflected in the new CIP when it comes out. Maybe the projections are being skewed by the GT Center

CIP numbers are already on FCPS website for this year.

The new CIP should be out next month as I do believe it is done annually. The current CIP reflects the numbers for last year not this years enrollments. I know it reflects last year because it shows Hayfield as a Cluster five school. Hayfield was moved to Cluster Four this year and this year is the first year Hayfield and South County feels the effects of the boundary change decision from last winter not reflected in the current CIP.

Dude-
Here are this years numbers. You are correct about CIP, but this year's numbers are here already.
http://www.fcps.edu/Reporting/membership/index.html

Anonymous,
Thanks I did not realize the current enrollments were out. Did a little comparison and the boundary change has of course effected Hayfield and SCSS. Hayfield Middle school this year is 110 below capacity now which is 164 over the projections before the boundary change last year. That I believe is more then expected with the boundary changed. The High school side is 542 under capacity just 84 over the projections before the boundary changed last year. That would be expected as the change will effect the high school grades as the middle schoolers work the way up. Seems to me Hayfield is on track to be at capacity in the outyears so no change should happen to Hayfield lest it goes back to being over capacity.

Lake Braddock middle school projections are right on in fact 3 less then then projected for this year. The GT programs puts the middles school over capacity and I wonder how many of the GT kids continue on to LB High. For whoever said the projections for LBSS is off they are correct. It is off by 66 on the high school side and -3 on the middle school side for a net of 63 over for the building. The projections have the High school numbers dropping off by a hugh amount starting with next year and on into 2012. Maybe the projections for LBSS are off a bit but the trend is still there while the trend for Hayfield is going the other way. We got Hayfield right, now it is time to set LBSS right as well.

Dude,
Check the CIP in the year before last as well for what they thought would happen for this year. The trend is not there yet as your own words show. Also how many in LBSS middle school now?

How many are in LBSS now?

What did CIP think 2 years ago would be there?

Who cares what happened two years ago. If they are not projecting right it should be changed, the projections were off for Hayfield as well but you have to go by something. The LB middle school projections are 3 more then actual numbers which means the trend for the High school will be down as the smaller numbers from the middle school move to the high school. Look at the feeder elementary schools, those are down as well for LBSS so it is logical to project the trend as going down at LBSS. The boundaries must be set to account for room in the outyears not this year or next or the previous two year. Its called "Planning"

Lets do this. Lets see what the projections are when the new CIP comes out next month. If the projections for LBSS show an increase in population in 2013 then I will agree that a new middle school is needed.

Dude-
since when is 3 kids in a 4000 person school in one year a trend?

your own words make no sense.

dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I guess we will see this reflected in the new CIP
> when it comes out. Maybe the projections are
> being skewed by the GT Center

How many western barbell Silverbrookers are at the Lake Braddock middle school GT center? That middle school has a maximum capacity of 1350. If there were 1250 Lake Braddock students with current GT identification rates there would be almost 100 base students per grade level. Each secondary school should have an in-house GTC for middle school. Same for co-located sites like Hughes and South Lakes. Our esteemed school board members ignored the existence of this GTCenter last year. Perhaps too many at-large members lived in the general area. [Remember Tessie Wilson replaced Moon as a Magisterial District member and I think Hunt was from FX Station. Raney and Hone live in Providnce.]

I wonder how many Fairfax Station families would like to go to Lake Braddock now, South County has poor test scores - it is not a great school. Lake Braddock is in the top 10 high schools in Fairfax County. Maybe the middle school will not be built after all.

Let me explain.
The CIP projects enrollments for planning and budgeting purpose. LB Middle school had a projection last year that was three students higher then the actual enrollment this year at the middle school level. I would say that projection was accurate wouldn't you? The projections going out to 2012 has the enrollments going down. If the projection is accurate then that could be considered a downward trend in population.

Dude-
Once again go back 2 years and see what was projected for 2007 and see if it happened...answer your own question of "if the projection was accurate". Break it out by middle and high school

I think a lot of people would like to come here "if the projections are accurate"

South County will be great once the riffraff who are causing the overcrowding problems and skewing our test scores are sent back to Hayfield and MV.

LBSS
Tell me what is the projection for the middle school and High school for this year and tell me how far off they were. I count a total of 63. Not bad. 2008 projections are lower as is 2009, 2010,2011,2012 and soon I am sure it will be for 2013.

Me2
The Riffraff will do much better at Lake Braddock since that school is much closer to Barrington then is Hayfield or Mount Vernon.

Everyone here seems to be ignoring the obvious-MONEY. FCPS has a $2 billion dollar annual budget and guess what??

They are projecting a $100 million dollar reduction next year. That is correct-REDUCTION. We know the unions won't be getting less for their people so where the H@*L do you think this money is coming from?

Why isn't anyone asking why The School Board and Jack Dale spent $60 million on a fancy new office building 2 years ago at the top of the market?

You people are missing the bigger issue here- Mismanagement within FCPS.

Lee Parent,
We are right on point and this is why the county must do its best planning and utilize the resources they have at newly renovated Lake Braddock to relieve South County rather then spending more on a middle school that is not needed now and probably not needed in 2017 when it is planned on the CIP

Dude,
You have my word Hayfield will be involved in a boundary study within the next 7 years.

Anonymous,
In seven years they the will have to adjust the boundary to send more kids to the new South County Middle School schedule for 2017.

If you look at the enrollments and capacities of LB and SC, the overapacity of SC is almost an exact even match to the number of empty seats at Lake Braddock.

VH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you look at the enrollments and capacities of
> LB and SC, the overapacity of SC is almost an
> exact even match to the number of empty seats at
> Lake Braddock.


_______________________________________________________

Show me a source for your numbers please.


The reality is, LB is over 400 students BEYOND the projeced (by FCPS) numbers for this year and in older neighborhoods such as those surrounding LBSS, as people move out, younger families move in. That has been shown all over that area and others like it.

Now that isn't to say the SCSS area isn't still growing. I still recall when at a hearing, the Laurel Hill area was quoted as adding only 70 students a year into the mix. Baloney!

LB is at capacity and they do not want more. They said it themselves.

There are two soloutions:

1. Build the MIDDLE SCHOOL in South County - the land is there...

2. Shift students towards the east - this means some will have to go to Mount Vernon.


In my opinion, the Middle School option is the only option, as I believe the spreading of students added by BRAC will add enough students to schools around this immediate area to overcrowd them all if the Middle School is not built.

A few hundred kids here and a few hundred there will add up quickly - and we already know how unwilling WSHS is, to adding ANY more students so LB would be the closest option then, should that area see higher enrollment numbers.

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cip2008-2012cd/pdf/lake_braddock_ms.pdf
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cip2008-2012cd/pdf/lake_braddock_hs.pdf
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cip2008-2012cd/pdf/south_county_hs.pdf
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/cip2008-2012cd/pdf/south_county_ms.pdf
http://www.fcps.edu/Reporting/membership/membership_2007_2008/september/web/cluster_5/monthly_membership_by_cluster_5.pdf
http://www.fcps.edu/Reporting/membership/membership_2007_2008/september/web/cluster_6/monthly_membership_by_cluster_6.pdf


2007 Projected # /Actual # /Capacity /Over or Under
LBMS 1320/ 1317/ 1350/ 33 Under
LBHS 2444/ 2510/ 2735/ 225 Under
SCMS 1046/ 885/ 800/ 85 Over
SCHS 2184/ 2044/ 1700/ 374 Over

Note that the projected numbers from last year’s CIP were before the 06/07 boundary change.

The total projection for LBSS was 3764. The actual numbers were 3885. The capacity is 4010. Lake Braddock can easily handle more students.

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>... >
> A few hundred kids here and a few hundred there
> will add up quickly - and we already know how
> unwilling WSHS is, to adding ANY more students so
> LB would be the closest option then, should that
> area see higher enrollment numbers.

Why should we pay property taxes to support new capacity after already being charged for additional new or renovated capacity? If I'm making mortgage payments on one primary residence in the same area I am not going to duplicate my costs.

Read the papers on the West County boundary process. Read about the budget. The non-move for this year impacts the school system operationally and financially. If South County wants that school it should either be a City or do a special tax district. Shift the location of non-Lake Braddock GT students and there is room at the school. You expect this entire county to pay to bus Mason Neck past South County to Hayfield or Mount Vernon? WSHS is full and had a concise boundary.

Reality, apparently you can't handle reality. LBSS projections has that school losing students for the next 6 years. Actual enrollment shows decrease population in the past 6 years. I predict the new CIP will show a decreased projection for 2013. Don't build a middle school when some from South County can be shifted to Lake Braddock.

LBSS and SCSS were able to get the county to do a "non move" last year to LBSS. Now we Tax payers continue to pay for trailers at SCSS while LBSS has room.

Do you know how much extra it cost the County for Mobile class trailers? The county is trying to be responsible but is confronted by selfish residents like Liz Bradsheer who doesnt care what it cost as long as they get what they want.

dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reality, apparently you can't handle reality.
> LBSS projections has that school losing students
> for the next 6 years. Actual enrollment shows
> decrease population in the past 6 years. I
> predict the new CIP will show a decreased
> projection for 2013. Don't build a middle school
> when some from South County can be shifted to Lake
> Braddock.

____________________________________________________________

Reality is that the numbers we were all preached on a few years ago, showed LBSS going down in count.

Why did they GO UP by ~ 400 ???

maybe FCPS needs to refurbish their crystal ball

Taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The county is trying to be
> responsible but is confronted by selfish residents
> like Liz Bradsheer who doesnt care what it cost as
> long as they get what they want.


___________________________________________________

Ahhh, now it comes out - this is a Liz Bradsher - bashing thread.

Whatever, we are done here.

ffxn8v

LBSS projection for 2007 on the CIP 1320 for Middle School, 2444 for High School

Actual numbers 1317 for Middle School, 2,510 for High School

Projections for total building is off by 63. I call that pretty good projection. That is the reality for the latest data. You can go back in time all you want and complain about projection being off but the most recent is pretty darn close and the projections have it continued to drop.

As for Liz I am ashamed that a fellow republican is so finacially liberal with tax payer money when the money has already been spent to house the number of students in this county. I see she bought your vote along with the rest of the South County area by promissing a brand new middle school. Well the rest of us are not getting that chicken in our pot.

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxpayer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> The county is trying to be
> > responsible but is confronted by selfish
> residents
> > like Liz Bradsheer who doesnt care what it cost
> as
> > long as they get what they want.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> _
>
> Ahhh, now it comes out - this is a Liz Bradsher -
> bashing thread.
>
> Whatever, we are done here.

I am the original taxpayer [no cap on the t] and did not write the Bradsher post. However, when you look at Franklin Farm and Crosspoint/ Barrington et al one can see very different approaches. I will respond on what I found out about trailer cost. One of the questions under school board followup for the year 2006-07 was by Mr. Gibson and the response on another issue from staff included costs of trailers [25 used and relocated -50,000 new]. That is under boarddocs.

Also that response included explanation on core facility v modular.

Also, the split schedule at SCSS means that regular busses can no longer be shared by middle and high school students.

taxpayer,

Please explain when you say different approaches are used when it comes to Franklin Farms vs. Crosspointe.

I am not up on the Franklin Farms point of view of that redistricting.

Apparently ffxn can't stand to debate when confronted with the facts. This person is a South County parent who will not be happy until he/she forces Lorton residents out of a Lorton School so they can have a lilly white country club. How much more is the county going to spend on this area? They changed the name, got a golf course, art center, new school, hhmmm. what else am I missing?

When did South County become a Lorton only school? If that is so, Lake Braddock should only be for Burke.

Mason Neck should return to Hayfield, the should never have been placed into South County to begin with. The first boundary study had them at Hayfield, and some how they got Dan Stork to make a deal to get them into South County. Mason Neck kicked out the Lorton residents that live across the street from South County and sent them to Hayfield. Lake Braddock will be able to take on more students, Fairfax Station or Newington Forest. That will be settled at the next boundary study. Lake Braddock is a better school than South County, and I don’t see why the Fairfax Station residents don’t want to go. South County will never be a good school, the school board messed thing up with all the boundary studies.

About 10-15 kids per grade from Mason Neck attend South County. Mason Neck is actually a Lorton address as is Lorton Station and Lorton proper. Perhaps SC should have been named Lorton High School and then all the Silverbrookers would be beating the doors down to attend Lake Braddock.

Lake Braddock is HUGH, built at a time when they thought bigger was better. It is too big just for Burke and so this is why it draws also from Fairfax Station. I never said SCSS should be only for Lorton, it is just a shame that the Lorton Community is not united at the school built in Lorton. Lorton has historically lived with the stigma of the Prison and now that the area is finally coming into its own I fear that much of "Old" lorton is being push out. Why does Mason Neck not have as much right to go to South County as Crosspointe. The neck has a handful of kids and hardly causes any crowding. It is my position that folks in Barrington and Crosspointe kicked out the folks in Lorton Station back to Hayfield. Dont forget there was a boundary option to split part of Silverbrook ES area to Lake Braddock. Bradsher et all raised holy hell to keep that option from even being discussed.

Dude-
Your position, like most of what you have posted is wrong and not backed by facts

I don't know what HUGH is, but Lake Braddock is huge. So is Hayfield

And because LB is so large, they can easily absorb the overcapacity caused by Barrington.

dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lake Braddock is HUGH, built at a time when they
> thought bigger was better. It is too big just for
> Burke and so this is why it draws also from
> Fairfax Station. I never said SCSS should be only
> for Lorton, it is just a shame that the Lorton
> Community is not united at the school built in
> Lorton. Lorton has historically lived with the
> stigma of the Prison and now that the area is
> finally coming into its own I fear that much of
> "Old" lorton is being push out. Why does Mason
> Neck not have as much right to go to South County
> as Crosspointe. The neck has a handful of kids
> and hardly causes any crowding. It is my position
> that folks in Barrington and Crosspointe kicked
> out the folks in Lorton Station back to Hayfield.
> Dont forget there was a boundary option to split
> part of Silverbrook ES area to Lake Braddock.
> Bradsher et all raised holy hell to keep that
> option from even being discussed.

Thanks for the spell check, you get my drift.
Do tell, which position is not backed by facts.

By the way the capacity at Hayfield is about 1,000 students less then LBSS

dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> taxpayer,
>
> Please explain when you say different approaches
> are used when it comes to Franklin Farms vs.
> Crosspointe.
>
> I am not up on the Franklin Farms point of view of
> that redistricting.

Franklin Farms is a large community in western FXC and an example of how large communities go to more than one school at all levels. I think some areas [ie entire western Silverbrook]at SCSS refused to have any sort of community split despite the number of households.

So why does South County have such low scores???? Like I said, it's a pretty well off area I guess the low scores prove that evn though a school draws from a high economic-socio population, it doesn't mean high scores, etc. I bet there are gangs there too even in the country club set.

Anything east of I-95 lowered our SAT score average. Next August (when the College Board releases the scores) SC should see a big jump in the student SAT scores since many of the poor performers were redistricted out of SC.

Ivy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anything east of I-95 lowered our SAT score
> average. Next August (when the College Board
> releases the scores) SC should see a big jump in
> the student SAT scores since many of the poor
> performers were redistricted out of SC.



Ivy or anyone,
What grade do students normally take the SAT?

Late Winter/Spring of 11th and Fall of 12th.

College Board released the class of 2007 scores in August of 2007.

The jump will actually not happen in August,08 but in August,09 since all Stallion seniors were allowed to remain despite the boundary changes.

Ivy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Late Winter/Spring of 11th and Fall of 12th.
>
> College Board released the class of 2007 scores in
> August of 2007.
>
> The jump will actually not happen in August,08 but
> in August,09 since all Stallion seniors were
> allowed to remain despite the boundary changes.


Ivy,
I hate to dissappoint you but the boundary change next year will only effect 7,8,9,10th graders. Then by the 08/09 school year 7,8,9,10, and 11th graders of course by that time Silverbrook school area will have been split to feed LBSS.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dude Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > taxpayer,
> >
> > Please explain when you say different
> approaches
> > are used when it comes to Franklin Farms vs.
> > Crosspointe.
> >
> > I am not up on the Franklin Farms point of view
> of
> > that redistricting.
>
> Franklin Farms is a large community in western FXC
> and an example of how large communities go to more
> than one school at all levels. I think some areas
> at SCSS refused to have any sort of community
> split despite the number of households.


taxpayer,
The stupid thing is there is no one subdivision called "Silverbrook" like there is Franklin Farm. Silverbrook ES pulls from several neighborhoods along Silverbrook rd all the way down near SCSS. When the new Laurel Hill ES comes on line next fall Silverbrook ES will get back down to a normal size school with neighborhoods around the ES only feeding that school. They complained about not wanting to be split as if that doesn't alreaday happen all over the county. Two neighborhoods in adjacent to the LBSS boundary "Barrington" "South run oaks" could be split off relieving SCSS. Shoot those neighborhoods are further away from South County then are the communities in Lorton Station that were sent back to Hayfield. Besides kids further south and west already drive right by the areas to LBSS right now.

dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... Two neighborhoods in
> adjacent to the LBSS boundary "Barrington" "South
> run oaks" could be split off relieving SCSS...

I know - those 2 protrude into the Lake Braddock attendance area and are near South Run. They should be there now. Hopefully the West County process will have opened people's eyes as to what happened [or rather didn't happen ] in 2006-07. The shenanigans for the first process, then the WS, then the second were ridiculous. The at-large school board members were derelict in their duties.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dude Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ... Two neighborhoods in
> > adjacent to the LBSS boundary "Barrington"
> "South
> > run oaks" could be split off relieving SCSS...
>
> I know - those 2 protrude into the Lake Braddock
> attendance area and are near South Run. They
> should be there now. Hopefully the West County
> process will have opened people's eyes as to what
> happened in 2006-07. The shenanigans for the
> first process, then the WS, then the second were
> ridiculous. The at-large school board members were
> derelict in their duties.


It will be interesting to see what happens a year from now when they conduct the latest boundary study in conjunction with the opening of Laurel Hill ES. The published statement about waiting on using LBSS to relieve SCSS was to give the South County community an opportunity to come up with a "No Cost" middle school. I am sure LBSS and South County will come up with all kinds of ideas to block any move to LBSS and I am certain Hayfield will be the prime target. I am looking forward to the new CIP projections for all three schools in the out years of 2012 and 2013.

"Two neighborhoods in adjacent to the LBSS boundary "Barrington" "South run oaks" could be split off relieving SCSS."

Yes, but those two neighborhoods alone would not be enough to help reduce the number of students at South County. Maybe sending Newington Forest to Hayfield along with this split may help. LBSS will still be under capacity, and claim they cannot take any other neighborhoods if that happens. It is best to send the entire area SRO to Tripple Ridge to LBSS.

What will probably happen is Newington Forest will get kicked out and that is what LBSS really doesnt want and is the reason they refuse to believe any projections It is not because they don't want part of Silverbrook sent to Lake Braddock it is that they know that it would likely be Newington Forest sent over because those richer neighborhoods along Silverbrook Rd., including Liz Bradsher's neighborhood will get their way and stay at SCSS.

Again Hayfield is on track to grow so adding Newington Forest to Hayfield simply shifts the overcrowding in the out years from one school to another. Look I dont mind seeing Hayfield grow but it has already received students back in the last boundary study. Like they did for LBSS, they should wait to see how the numbers from this last move and any BRAC numbers will have on Hayfield. If Hayfield's projections leave them undercapacity in the out years then yes go ahead and look at that for additions but it would be better to look at schools closer to Hayfield that may need relief at that time before we look again to Lorton. It is simple folks, right now LBSS is projected to have room, Hayfield is filling up, how hard is it to figure this out. Its not!

All Silverbrookers who live west of Hooes, North of Silverbrook Road residents should get redistricted to LB. This would include Barrington, North Crosspointe, South Run Oaks, and Triple Ridge.

Dude,

You bring up a good point about LBSS. What are you thought on this - Wouldn’t it be better to send Newington Forest to LBSS and send more of the rt1 to South County? Sending Fairfax Station to LBSS would only make that school better. I have been reading the South Lakes blog and they are trying to balance that school by bringing in Oakton and other to their school. If the school board sends Fairfax Station to LBSS that would go against everything they are trying to accomplish at South Lakes, right? I see no need for a middle school or any addition at any school, use what we have.

Sending Newington Forest is cutting off the north central section of the current SC boundaries. Sending the North Silverbrook subdivision cuts off a section that juts into the Lake Braddock area making both boundaries smoother without gerrymandered areas.

,,,,,,,, Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dude,
>
> You bring up a good point about LBSS. What are you
> thought on this - Wouldn’t it be better to send
> Newington Forest to LBSS and send more of the rt1
> to South County? Sending Fairfax Station to LBSS
> would only make that school better. I have been
> reading the South Lakes blog and they are trying
> to balance that school by bringing in Oakton and
> other to their school. If the school board sends
> Fairfax Station to LBSS that would go against
> everything they are trying to accomplish at South
> Lakes, right? I see no need for a middle school or
> any addition at any school, use what we have.


I guess there are many ways to slice the pie. Bottom line is they do not need to build a MS when LBSS has room with more room coming.

At the first boundary study opening SCSS there were all kinds of different scenerios that could have impacted West Springfield, Lee. Everyone wanted to go to the new school but a choice had to be made. I remember one group of Lee parents from the Saratoga area wanting to be moved to Hayfield if they could not get into SCSS. Anyway, what ever happens they will not be moving anyone INTO SCSS thats for sure even if it did provide more balance to the demographic numbers. Now if they do move more folks into Hayfield most likely it would be from Lorton as I think it is clear that Newington forest would be just too far for them to move back to Hayfield. Then of course you have the same deal with demographics creating higher numbers for Hayfield which is already amoung the highest in the county and reducing that of SCSS.

on monday 12-10 is a school board work session on the budget with the board of supervisors.

check out today's Washington Post article on the FX budget. Somebody finally realized that debt service on bonds for FCPS is real money and each item should be analyzed!!!! Duh. How about the dirt removal at Langley as an operating budget or bonded item? How about the larger issue of it's construction project? What about that addition we are paying debt service on at Lake Braddock?

I think the new CIP report comes out next week. What will the Lake Braddock and Silverbrook folks say when the projections continue to show the population to decline at Lake Braddock.

Tick tock, one year left to come up with a "free" middle school in south county or utilize Lake Braddock.

Liz will get them their new middle school. It's what she was elected to do.

She is one school board supervisor that will be tied to budget cuts we all know are coming. Good luck with getting a new anything.

CIP for09-13 is out under new business at the 12-20-07 school board meeting.

Taxpayer,

Can you say exactly what to click on to find the new CIP? I looked on the board meeting link and couldn't find anything. When I used the FCPS search engine, all that came up were old CIPs.

Who the fuck cares?

I believe Taxpayer was refering to the School Board schedule. I assume it notes that the CIP for 09-13 will be presented on 12/20 by the Superintendent.

huh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxpayer,
>
> Can you say exactly what to click on to find the
> new CIP? I looked on the board meeting link and
> couldn't find anything. When I used the FCPS
> search engine, all that came up were old CIPs.

fcps homepage
http://www.fcps.edu/index.shtml

green sidebar on left - click on school board
http://www.fcps.edu/schlbd/index.htm

under school board meetings on bottom left click on BoardDocs (Agendas and Supporting Materials)

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/Public?OpenFrameSet

you will get to their Virginia School Board Assoc page and on the left are meeting dates - click on the little box for 12-20-07 then on the box for New Business:

6. New Business

6.01 FY 2009 - FY 2013 Capital Improvement Program - Recommendation to approve the FY 2009-2013 Capital Improvement Program as described in the narrative and in the Superintendent’s Proposed FY 2009-2013 Capital Improvement Program Summary (FTS; action scheduled 1/24/08)

when you click on the section for 6.01 the middle window chnages and you get the Agenda item- at the bottom is a link to the CIP - since it's big I recommend opening it in a new window

Its greatest merit was the taking up again of dialectics as the highest form of reasoning. The old Greek philosophers were all born natural dialecticians, and Aristotle, the most encyclopaedic of them, had already analyzed the most essential forms of dialectic thought. The newer philosophy, on the other hand, although in it also dialectics had brilliant exponents (e.g. Descartes and Spinoza), had, especially through English influence, become more and more rigidly fixed in the so-called metaphysical mode of reasoning, by which also the French of the 18th century were almost wholly dominated, at all events in their special philosophical work. Outside philosophy in the restricted sense, the French nevertheless produced masterpieces of dialectic. We need only call to mind Diderot's Le Neveu de Rameau, and Rousseau's Discours sur l'origine et les fondements de l'inegalite parmi less hommes. We give here, in brief, the essential character of these two modes of thought.

When we consider and reflect upon Nature at large, or the history of mankind, or our own intellectual activity, at first we see the picture of an endless entanglement of relations and reactions, permutations and combinations, in which nothing remains what, where and as it was, but everything moves, changes, comes into being and passes away. We see, therefore, at first the picture as a whole, with its individual parts still more or less kept in the background; we observe the movements, transitions, connections, rather than the things that move, combine, and are connected. This primitive, naive but intrinsically correct conception of the world is that of ancient Greek philosophy, and was first clearly formulated by Heraclitus: everything is and is not, for everything is fluid, is constantly changing, constantly coming into being and passing away.[A]

But this conception, correctly as it expresses the general character of the picture of appearances as a whole, does not suffice to explain the details of which this picture is made up, and so long as we do not understand these, we have not a clear idea of the whole picture. In order to understand these details, we must detach them from their natural, special causes, effects, etc. This is, primarily, the task of natural science and historical research: branches of science which the Greek of classical times, on very good grounds, relegated to a subordinate position, because they had first of all to collect materials for these sciences to work upon. A certain amount of natural and historical material must be collected before there can be any critical analysis, comparison, and arrangement in classes, orders, and species. The foundations of the exact natural sciences were, therefore, first worked out by the Greeks of the Alexandrian period , and later on, in the Middle Ages, by the Arabs. Real natural science dates from the second half of the 15th century, and thence onward it had advanced with constantly increasing rapidity. The analysis of Nature into its individual parts, the grouping of the different natural processes and objects in definite classes, the study of the internal anatomy of organized bodies in their manifold forms — these were the fundamental conditions of the gigantic strides in our knowledge of Nature that have been made during the last 400 years. But this method of work has also left us as legacy the habit of observing natural objects and processes in isolation, apart from their connection with the vast whole; of observing them in repose, not in motion; as constraints, not as essentially variables; in their death, not in their life. And when this way of looking at things was transferred by Bacon and Locke from natural science to philosophy, it begot the narrow, metaphysical mode of thought peculiar to the last century.

To the metaphysician, things and their mental reflexes, ideas, are isolated, are to be considered one after the other and apart from each other, are objects of investigation fixed, rigid, given once for all. He thinks in absolutely irreconcilable antitheses. His communication is 'yea, yea; nay, nay'; for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." For him, a thing either exists or does not exist; a thing cannot at the same time be itself and something else. Positive and negative absolutely exclude one another; cause and effect stand in a rigid antithesis, one to the other.

At first sight, this mode of thinking seems to us very luminous, because it is that of so-called sound commonsense. Only sound commonsense, respectable fellow that he is, in the homely realm of his own four walls, has very wonderful adventures directly he ventures out into the wide world of research. And the metaphysical mode of thought, justifiable and necessary as it is in a number of domains whose extent varies according to the nature of the particular object of investigation, sooner or later reaches a limit, beyond which it becomes one-sided, restricted, abstract, lost in insoluble contradictions. In the contemplation of individual things, it forgets the connection between them; in the contemplation of their existence, it forgets the beginning and end of that existence; of their repose, it forgets their motion. It cannot see the woods for the trees.

For everyday purposes, we know and can say, e.g., whether an animal is alive or not. But, upon closer inquiry, we find that his is, in many cases, a very complex question, as the jurists know very well. They have cudgelled their brains in vain to discover a rational limit beyond which the killing of the child in its mother's womb is murder. It is just as impossible to determine absolutely the moment of death, for physiology proves that death is not an instantaneous, momentary phenomenon, but a very protracted process.

In like manner, every organized being is every moment the same and not the same; every moment, it assimilates matter supplied from without, and gets rid of other matter; every moment, some cells of its body die and others build themselves anew; in a longer or shorter time, the matter of its body is completely renewed, and is replaced by other molecules of matter, so that every organized being is always itself, and yet something other than itself.

Further, we find upon closer investigation that the two poles of an antithesis, positive and negative, e.g., are as inseparable as they are opposed, and that despite all their opposition, they mutually interpenetrate. And we find, in like manner, that cause and effect are conceptions which only hold good in their application to individual cases; but as soon as we consider the individual cases in their general connection with the universe as a whole, they run into each other, and they become confounded when we contemplate that universal action and reaction in which causes and effects are eternally changing places, so that what is effect here and now will be cause there and then, and vice versa.

None of these processes and modes of thought enters into the framework of metaphysical reasoning. Dialectics, on the other hand, comprehends things and their representations, ideas, in their essential connection, concatenation, motion, origin and ending. Such processes as those mentioned above are, therefore, so many corroborations of its own method of procedure.

Nature is the proof of dialectics, and it must be said for modern science that it has furnished this proof with very rich materials increasingly daily, and thus has shown that, in the last resort, Nature works dialectically and not metaphysically; that she does not move in the eternal oneness of a perpetually recurring circle, but goes through a real historical evolution. In this connection, Darwin must be named before all others. He dealt the metaphysical conception of Nature the heaviest blow by his proof that all organic beings, plants, animals, and man himself, are the products of a process of evolution going on through millions of years. But, the naturalists, who have learned to think dialectically, are few and far between, and this conflict of the results of discovery with preconceived modes of thinking, explains the endless confusion now reigning in theoretical natural science, the despair of teachers as well as learners, of authors and readers alike.

An exact representation of the universe, of its evolution, of the development of mankind, and of the reflection of this evolution in the minds of men, can therefore only be obtained by the methods of dialectics with its constant regard to the innumerable actions and reactions of life and death, of progressive or retrogressive changes. And in this spirit, the new German philosophy has worked. Kant began his career by resolving the stable Solar system of Newton and its eternal duration, after the famous initial impulse had once been given, into the result of a historical process, the formation of the Sun and all the planets out of a rotating, nebulous mass. From this, he at the same time drew the conclusion that, given this origin of the Solar system, its future death followed of necessity. His theory, half a century later, was established mathematically by Laplace, and half a century after that, the spectroscope proved the existence in space of such incandescent masses of gas in various stages of condensation.

Well there you go Ferfux just proved that the middle school is unneccesary. Case Closed

Thanks Taxpayer for guiding us to the new CIP. If you don't agree with Ferfux's assessment perhaps you should look at the projections for Lake Braddock. As I have been stating over and over the room at Lake Braddock gets more and more each year enough to bring South County below capacity within four years. Hayfield while under capacity will reach to about 95 percent capacity on the High school side by 2013. Plan to use LBSS and do not build a middle school wasting our tax payers money. In fact I would bet that by 2013 a new middle school will still not be needed.

Dude Checker, check the CIP for your self and tell me I am wrong!

The CIP makes it clear. Less and Less Bruins makes room for Stallions.

The annual public hearings on school construction issues, known as the Capital Improvement Plan or CIP will be at 7 p.m. on Jan. 9, 2008 at Luther Jackson Middle School in Falls Church. Registration to speak is required in advance, and residents in South County are strongly urged to sign-up online beginning this Friday, Dec. 14 at 6 a.m. for a limited number of speaking slots.


I just saw this in the Connection and am not sure if there are speaking slots left. The speaking slots are for everyone so if you think the SCSS overcrowding ca be solved by using the excess seats at Lake Braddock et al, be sure to voice your opinion. There is no need for a middle school as long as there are undercapacity 7-12 schools that share SC's boundaries.

Connection Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The annual public hearings on school construction
> issues, known as the Capital Improvement Plan or
> CIP will be at 7 p.m. on Jan. 9, 2008 at Luther
> Jackson Middle School in Falls Church.
> Registration to speak is required in advance, and
> residents in South County are strongly urged to
> sign-up online beginning this Friday, Dec. 14 at 6
> a.m. for a limited number of speaking slots.
>
>
> I just saw this in the Connection and am not sure
> if there are speaking slots left. The speaking
> slots are for everyone so if you think the SCSS
> overcrowding ca be solved by using the excess
> seats at Lake Braddock et al, be sure to voice
> your opinion. There is no need for a middle school
> as long as there are undercapacity 7-12 schools
> that share SC's boundaries.


There is undercapacity at LBSS in the out years of 2012 and 2013. By that time Hayfield will be nearly 100 percent capacity so Lake Braddock is the only viable solution to relieve overcrowding at SCSS

If you can't speak at the meeting, be sure to email the SB with your POV.

“Hayfield will be nearly 100 percent capacity “ who the hell wants to go to Hayfield, Lake Braddock is a better school. I don’t think Hayfield will have to worry about their school being overcapacity.

I am watching the boring FCPS CIP hearings just to hear the South County crew demanding a new middle school by 2012 when the free land dries up. They want bumps on the CIP of scheduled projects for which bond referendums have been passed. They want the 2 million in BRAC planning money for the project. Is everyone going to live there if they move at all? What about all the new housing at Ft Belvoir which is not part of South County?

Here's another school with computerized whiteboards but bacteria nd carpets have to ripped up and bathrooms don't work. And those ninnies can't go to Lake Braddock. West Springfield is an older dump yet these people won't go to new sites. One poor kid got so sick from the school bacteria she missed nine months of teaching and they gave her no homebound or decent on-line courses .

Addition at Langley anyone? South County Middle School? Mason district wants an elementartschool - hey Glasgow got about 400 extra spaces .

Isn't a new middle school on the CIP for 2015? Its only three years why the push now when they have a solution of overcrowding at SCSS. What is really going on is that if they stick to the original plan and wait till 2015 by then they may find that even by they may not need a middle school. So the school will have excess land to sell and renovate West Springfield. yea

Send all of route one, cut off at interstate 95, to Hayfield. Hayfield was just renovated and has so much room it can take on the route one area. That way no middle school is needed and South County will be under capacity.

Better yet,

Cut off the subdivisions west of Hooes and north of Silverbrook to get redistricted to Lake Braddock. Lake Braddock was just renovated and has so much room that it can take Barrington et. al. That way no middle school is needed and South County will be under capacity.

Hayfieldhasroom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Send all of route one, cut off at interstate 95,
> to Hayfield. Hayfield was just renovated and has
> so much room it can take on the route one area.
> That way no middle school is needed and South
> County will be under capacity.

BS- Hayfield does not have room and with the cost of transportation it's stupid to ask me to pay for busses to run AM/PM through mason neck then drop off at hayfield instead of South County. It's also stupid to run busses around Robinson pyramid and then drive them to lake braddock for GT. If the residences serving current South County were a separate school division then I would not care - they could tax themselves. But they are not and the fact is the crew that should be sitting at Lake braddock today was not part of the prison area.

That is correct. The Silverbrook area is not an incorporated town. SC should have been called Lorton High School and offered IB. I have a feeling that Crosspointe et. al. would be pounding the doors of Lake Braddock if that was to happen.

Isn't it funny how folks at "South County" for the moment want to kick out the southern most part of the county from this school. If they get there way and kick Mason neck and the Rt. one corridor out of South County then they can rename it Bradsher High.

The idea of sending Mason Neck and all the students on the Route 1 side of I-95 back to Hayfield will fix the SCSS overcrowding and eliminate the need for a new middle school. But as long as Dan Storck (creep) is on the board that won't happen. Rumor has it he was paid off by the Lorton Station developers to get them into SCSS. People would never buy a home that goes to Hayfield.

The idea of sending Barrington, North Crosspointe and all the students west of Hooes/north of Silverbrook to Lake Braddock will fix the SCSS overcrowding and eliminate the need for a new middle school. But as long as Liz Bradsher (bigot: as witnessed at her outburst last week at a West County meeting) is on the board, that won't happen. Rumor has it she is being financed by the Fairfax Station Silverbrookers to get them to stay in SCSS. Interesting that Lake Braddock isn't good enough for them. Too many minorities?

Hayfield is filling up while Lake Braddock is getting more room every year.

That is the bottom line, No middle school is neaded when room is coming to Lake Braddock

The ironic thing is that even South Lakes and Mount Vernon are among the top 20% of high schools in the country. I'll freely admit being a hypocrite on this regard -- my wife and I were looking at places in the Oakton and Madison districts.

We could do what is done in Missouri and divide FFX into 28 or however many school districts. Then each district would organize schools its way and negotiate with its neighbors if they want to do a boundary swap. Services could be coordinated as needed within the Fairfax Unified District, to which the individual districts within Fairfax contribute. The poorer districts would get the equalization revenue from Richmond as needed.

I mean, why should someone out at Westfields get to butt in a HSS/SCSS/LBSS dick-waving contest, or someone in Mason Neck get to complain about a SLHS/HHS/LHS/WHS pissing contest?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2008 08:28AM by formerhick76.

This middle school should be removed from the CIP - it's a disgrace in this budget climate. I'd be against it even if FX had the money.

South Lakes? That place should be used but nobody in this county should have to pay the extra costs for IB unless it's for their own kid. The budget show today had the tax rate at .89 and I think it should stay there.

Repeat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The idea of sending Barrington, North Crosspointe
> and all the students west of Hooes/north of
> Silverbrook to Lake Braddock will fix the SCSS
> overcrowding and eliminate the need for a new
> middle school. But as long as Liz Bradsher (bigot:
> as witnessed at her outburst last week at a West
> County meeting) is on the board, that won't
> happen. Rumor has it she is being financed by the
> Fairfax Station Silverbrookers to get them to stay
> in SCSS. Interesting that Lake Braddock isn't
> good enough for them. Too many minorities?


______________________________________________

Knowing Liz's position on the matter before the elections, you all had MORE than a fair chance at saying NO with your vote.

Seems the majority spoke and the majority said YES to Liz, middle school, and all

All Fairfaxers have the right to complain to all the School Board about this topic. It is not dead in the water no matter what the Bradsher Bigot and her cronies would have you believe. She is one vote and has angered enough people with her selfishness that she will not get what she wants.

There are already so many kids from the Silverbrook boundaries that are actually at Lorton for GT Center and will continue at Lake Braddock for GT Center in middle school. Our kids should be allowed to stay there for high school. Consequently our immediate neighbors deserve the superior education that Lake Braddock provides.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This middle school should be removed from the CIP
> - it's a disgrace in this budget climate. I'd be
> against it even if FX had the money.
>
> South Lakes? That place should be used but nobody
> in this county should have to pay the extra costs
> for IB unless it's for their own kid. The budget
> show today had the tax rate at .89 and I think it
> should stay there.


Well good luck getting your school. One vote won't do it.

Liz had no problem sending kids from other schools to South Lakes last night. Hopefully she will be as equally responsible by sending kids from overcapacity South County to undercapacity Lake Braddock. Remember it doesn't have to be the logical choice of her neighborhood to go. She can send Newington Forest kids just as easily.

Stallion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liz had no problem sending kids from other schools
> to South Lakes last night. Hopefully she will be
> as equally responsible by sending kids from
> overcapacity South County to undercapacity Lake
> Braddock. Remember it doesn't have to be the
> logical choice of her neighborhood to go. She can
> send Newington Forest kids just as easily.

Liz Bradsher used the term NO school choice. Now that Stu Gibson got kids into South Lakes I expect him to move on this issue. Phil Nijilski-Eichner jumped on Raney's amendment with questions since it left out Falls Church.

So for anyone filling out the pupil placement forms- or anyone else- now is a great time to step up and fight for FCPS to not build the NEW South County Middle School. Last year Bradsher, Dave Albo, Tom Davis,Jerry Hyland had Bradsher's area removed complete from a boundary process. There was an amendment on them finding the money for the school and that got changed in the January 2008 CIP vote.

I noticed something - the 2 that started the Langley boundary gerrymandering were Republicans - Lou Zone [Hunter Mill] and Stu Mendelsohn [Dranesville]. Liz Bradsher is a Republican. Maybe Stu G and Phil NE will get partisan.

So get it off the CIP or we all will be paying for that.

What do you mean "people would never buy a home in the Hayfield district." Many new homes are being built and sold in the area especially in the Lorton Station area.

Stallion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liz had no problem sending kids from other schools
> to South Lakes last night. Hopefully she will be
> as equally responsible by sending kids from
> overcapacity South County to undercapacity Lake
> Braddock. Remember it doesn't have to be the
> logical choice of her neighborhood to go. She can
> send Newington Forest kids just as easily.


What do you mean the Newington Forest kids can go to Lake Braddock? I thought the SB only wanted the Silverbrook area removed from South County? I thought they wanted the best at Lake Braddock?

Last year there were several options on the table. Send East of Rte 1 kids all to Hayfield, send some Newington kids to LB, send some Silverbrook kids to LB, and a couple of others. Amazingly enough, only Hayfield got kids sent there and Lake Braddock didn't absorb any. ALso amazingly enough, the FRL and ESOL rates went way down this year at SC. Fairfax citizens are now wise to Silverbrook Shenanigans and will insist that either North Silverbrook or Newington Forest get redistricts. Liz lives in the North Silverbrook area (Crosspointe to be exact) so my bet would be that it is the Newington Forest kids who get redistricted to Lake Braddock.

There are 911 comments to this blogpost here: http://fairboundaries.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-02-23T07%3A08%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=2

and two separate posts with over 2000 total comments here: http://fairboundaries.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2007-02-23T07%3A08%3A00-05%3A00&max-results=2

So will people unite and lobby to move them to Lake Braddock? Nobody wants to pay for this except some parents of about 300-400 kids a year.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So will people unite and lobby to move them to
> Lake Braddock? Nobody wants to pay for this
> except some parents of about 300-400 kids---TYPO
for 6 years of school.

I think the whole county should be writing to the SB. If they saw fit to move Oakton kids and Madison kids to SL (from AP to IB) and Chantilly kids to Oakton(AP to AP but a longer commute), there is no reason why the northwest corner of the current South County boundaries can't be redistricted to Lake Braddock. The commute would be longer but it would alleviate the overcapacity at SCSS and fill empty seats at LB.

We are all taxpayers and voters and we all have a right to voice our opinions about wasteful expenditures on an unneeded middle school.

I agree. If the SB can redistrict areas in the western part of the county, they should redistrict SC too! There are empty seats at Lake Braddock--USE THEM! The SC middle school is NOT needed!

While I keep hearing LB has all these magical (empty) spaces (which they really do not) and how shifting a few hundred kids to there would help a bunch, that is short-term thinking with flawed information.


The reality is, FCPS goofed on the numbers time and time again and their empty spaces at LBSS didn't happen like they thought.

ALso, with building going on in the SCSS area (still) and BRAC coming to affect the area (Still), in the long run there will be more factors causing overcrowding than one can forecast.

The funding for the SCMS is the only solution, as the immediate area is going to keep getting more and more crowded. Believe me, I went to the FCPS meetings and heard their BS projections.

..the first meeting out, they said building in the SCSS are will ONLY add 300 students and they figured it would not have much of an impact. Right...

If Lake Braddock is really near capacity, why does the school board still want to use that school? Didn’t they visit the school to see what it really has? If they can not use Lake Braddock, Hayfield and Mt. Vernon have empty seats. Shouldn’t the school board use these seats first? They could shift some students from Hayfield that boarder Mt. Vernon and then send students from South County to Hayfield. This sounds like a better idea than building a middle school when money is not available. I have been reading the blog for South Lakes, and the school board moved students from Oakton to South Lakes; let’s get the school board to move students to Hayfield and Mt. Vernon. These schools could really need the help. Unlike Lake Braddock, these schools have very low test scores and many empty seats. No middle school is needed. Use Mt. Vernon and Hayfield NOW!

Actually it is more equitable to use LB and H for SC kids. All 3 are AP schools. All 3 are secondary schools.

Mt. Vernon needs to be included in the next boundary study. Lake Braddock can take very little from South County. Hayfield and Mt. Vernon must be used to help the over capacity issue. Send students from Hayfield to Mt. Vernon, and South County to Hayfield and the few seats at Lake Braddock. If these schools are not used, South County will still be over capacity and the middle school WILL be built! Don’t let this happen! Use Mt. Vernon and Hayfield Now!

I agree that MV and H should both be used but I do not understand the resistance to Lake Braddock. It's a newly renovated building. It has higher SAT scores and SOL pass rates, it has the GT program for 7 and 8. More importanyly, it has space according to multiple predictions (both FCPS and the consultant report). What is wrong with LB?

I posted all three schools need to be used in the next study. Lake Braddock can only take few students from South County. Hayfield and Mt. Vernon are way under capacity and need students to help the schools. If all three schools are not used in the next study, South County will still be over capacity and the middle school will be built. Use Mt. Vernon and Hayfield now!

So you really should be saying use Hayfield AND Lake Braddock AND Mount Vernon now. With all the fuss over redistricting AP to IB schools in Western Fairfax, no one will ever go to MV. :)

Langston sucks, they should convert it to a prison, theyve got all the criminals already

Huh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that MV and H should both be used but I do
> not understand the resistance to Lake Braddock.
> It's a newly renovated building. It has higher SAT
> scores and SOL pass rates, it has the GT program
> for 7 and 8. More importanyly, it has space
> according to multiple predictions (both FCPS and
> the consultant report). What is wrong with LB?

Lake Braddock has over 600 for 2012 - couple of hundred now. Those numbers DO NOT include the out of boundary people in the middle school GT center. That has people from Robinson, Irving, and SOUTH COUNTY. How many are there NOW whose base schools for elementary are Silverbrook and Newington Forest?

It has almost 300 GTC and is projected to have 300 up to 2012. Just doing a 4 way split on all schools that's 75 from South County there already.

This whole thing is about NOT moving the tip of Silverbrook, Bradsher's base school. They'd have less of a commute than many already at Lake Braddock and maybe less than the NEW Navy. Possibly about the same as the farthest west part of Fox Mill to South Lakes.

Notice the school board isn't jumping through hoops and turning Carson into a high school in this economy.

Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I posted all three schools need to be used in the
> next study. Lake Braddock can only take few
> students from South County. Hayfield and Mt.
> Vernon are way under capacity and need students to
> help the schools. If all three schools are not
> used in the next study, South County will still be
> over capacity and the middle school will be built.
> Use Mt. Vernon and Hayfield now!

________________________________________________________

Lake Braddock should off the table, unless folks can accept overcrowding ANOTHER school to the levels we have experienced elsewhere. It will happen.

I agree 100% on MV. Why isn't it used??? Why isn't a shift done between there and Hayfield? The answer is Dan Storck and Mason Neck. Mason Neck BEGGED to not go to MV a long time ago and has Storck on their side. Good for them, but the Middle School is then needed for that districting issue and for the overcrowding caused by FCPS' unrealistic numbers fromthe get-go on how much the new home construction would be impacting the SCSS numbers.

Again, moving a small number of students to LB is short-sighted and as other matters unfold that include BRAC, it is not responsible either.

MV and Hayfield are both much, much closer to Ft Belvoir than Lake Braddock. The BRAC impact will hit these 2 schools more severely.

The point is that not just one of these schools should absorb the surplus kids who are overcrowding SCSS. ALL 3 can be used if necessary. In fact, Hayfield and Lake Braddock do haveenough extra seats by themselves to handle SC overcapacityand then kids won't get redistricted from an AP to an IB school nor would they have to have a ms/hs situation instead of a secondary.

Silverbrook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MV and Hayfield are both much, much closer to Ft
> Belvoir than Lake Braddock. The BRAC impact will
> hit these 2 schools more severely.
>
> The point is that not just one of these schools
> should absorb the surplus kids who are
> overcrowding SCSS. ALL 3 can be used if necessary.
> In fact, Hayfield and Lake Braddock do
> haveenough extra seats by themselves to handle SC
> overcapacityand then kids won't get redistricted
> from an AP to an IB school nor would they have to
> have a ms/hs situation instead of a secondary.


_________________________________________________________


The point you (and others) miss, is BRAC does not mean people will ALL live in the Ft Belvoir area. The whole corridor from there to the EPG and its fringes will be affected.

In fact, if enough change comes, maybe the untouchable WSHS might be affected (read: overcrowded) by this all.

One other thing to consider, as the LBSS area is an older area, as empty-nesters move away, their homes may be purchased by folks with kids (again) which would start the cycle all over again as it did in the late 70s and 80s in the area.

Look at the long term vs. the here and RIGHT(!!!) NOW.

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Silverbrook Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MV and Hayfield are both much, much closer to
> Ft
> > Belvoir than Lake Braddock. The BRAC impact
> will
> > hit these 2 schools more severely.
> >
> > The point is that not just one of these schools
> > should absorb the surplus kids who are
> > overcrowding SCSS. ALL 3 can be used if
> necessary.
> > In fact, Hayfield and Lake Braddock do
> > haveenough extra seats by themselves to handle
> SC
> > overcapacityand then kids won't get
> redistricted
> > from an AP to an IB school nor would they have
> to
> > have a ms/hs situation instead of a secondary.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> _______
>
>
> The point you (and others) miss, is BRAC does not
> mean people will ALL live in the Ft Belvoir area.
> The whole corridor from there to the EPG and its
> fringes will be affected.
>
> In fact, if enough change comes, maybe the
> untouchable WSHS might be affected (read:
> overcrowded) by this all.
>
> One other thing to consider, as the LBSS area is
> an older area, as empty-nesters move away, their
> homes may be purchased by folks with kids (again)
> which would start the cycle all over again as it
> did in the late 70s and 80s in the area.
>
> Look at the long term vs. the here and RIGHT(!!!)
> NOW.

Every but the western contingent of South County is looking at the long term and the short term. People all over this county fund stuff at Laurel Hill-Lorton. We` see Mount Vernon plus numerous other spots with open high school capacity. I'd rather fund another elementary school ON FORT BELVOIR than an addition at South County or the middle school. I checked the maps of the 11th district - there are alot more areas than the boundaries of Silverbrook. If you all want that high school then withdraw from FCPS or pay for it yourselves via a special tax district.

West Springfield had more kids assigned to it in the rush to vacate Lee. Daventry then tried the next year. West County boundary process had NO CANCELLATIONS so what makes you people any different?

What does West Springfield have to do with this? They are not overcapacity right now, in fact the CIP shows WSHS and Irving to be slightly undercapacity in the out years. That being said, I would rather my kids go to Lake Braddock over Irving/WS so they can stay at one school for all 6 years as they would at South County.

Silverbrook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What does West Springfield have to do with this?
> They are not overcapacity right now, in fact the
> CIP shows WSHS and Irving to be slightly
> undercapacity in the out years. That being said,
> I would rather my kids go to Lake Braddock over
> Irving/WS so they can stay at one school for all 6
> years as they would at South County.

___________________________________________

...sounds like you should pupil-place


SCSS is a community school that was built so those going to Hayfield would have a better quality of life by going to that community school. The UNnecessary redistricting hearings have caused heartache in the area and now another looms.

There are so many unknows in this that FCPS should leave bad enough alone until it all works out, or build the MS and be done with it.

That is my opinion...

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Silverbrook Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What does West Springfield have to do with this?
>
> > They are not overcapacity right now, in fact
> the
> > CIP shows WSHS and Irving to be slightly
> > undercapacity in the out years. That being
> said,
> > I would rather my kids go to Lake Braddock over
> > Irving/WS so they can stay at one school for all
> 6
> > years as they would at South County.
>
> ___________________________________________
>
> ...sounds like you should pupil-place
>
>
> SCSS is a community school that was built so those
> going to Hayfield would have a better quality of
> life by going to that community school. The
> UNnecessary redistricting hearings have caused
> heartache in the area and now another looms.
>
> There are so many unknows in this that FCPS should
> leave bad enough alone until it all works out, or
> build the MS and be done with it.
>
> That is my opinion...

Heartache? People working hard to pay for what for YOUR kids? There are foreclosures and near foreclosures in every area of this county. People who have relocated cannot get even 1 contract on some reasonably priced homes in good condition.

Gas is over $3.00 per gallon- food is more expensive - a library is delayed. Fairfax County needs high quality police, fire, services for the disabled, blight abatement. 12 million dollars because kids won't ride a few extra miles???

I read alot about the Hayfield Pyramid Solutions years ago. What I never read was why I didn't see math sol reports for algebra or geometry in grade 8. FCPS is a county wide school division NOT a swim club or tennis court for an HOA community.

The millions of dollars spent to transform Lorton ? I see the new boundary map and it seems those who bought houses in the old prison area are now at Hayfield.

as a "taxpayer" I am sure you are concerned about foreclosures, as they will cost you, me, and probably my kids a lot of money in bailing out people who got no-doc liar loans on homes they should have NEVER been in. I have no pity and they should deal with it. Live within your means, really.

Regarding your idea on Hayfield housing students in new homes from the old prison area, how so? Looks like SCSS to me...

Regarding the rest of your complaints on the cost of life, I got a reduction on my mortgage that helps comp. me on the other (higher) costs. Life in the big city...

Again, be concerned over bailout schemes for the subprime and liar-loaners, not schools in the big picture...

No thanks, a middle school in Southern Fairfax County can wait until 2017 as originally planned.

GOPfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No thanks, a middle school in Southern Fairfax
> County can wait until 2017 as originally planned.


FCPS school board has now put an addition to SC to be built ASAP on the 3-27 board meeting as new business. I guess that's the real reason the Board of supervisors wants to raise the tax rate. That is more important than academics or police or blight strike forces or anything else - go figure.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GOPfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No thanks, a middle school in Southern Fairfax
> > County can wait until 2017 as originally
> planned.
>
>
> FCPS school board has now put an addition to SC to
> be built ASAP on the 3-27 board meeting as new
> business. I guess that's the real reason the
> Board of supervisors wants to raise the tax rate.
> That is more important than academics or police
> or blight strike forces or anything else - go
> figure.


and to avoid any redistricting? This is in addition to SCSS a middle school will be built as well? What will become of SCSS if and when the middle school is built, SC to not be a secondary school anymore? If West County went through a heated redistricting, then why not do the same thing for SCSS, LBSS and Hayfield??

That's the whole point. There IS space at Lake Braddock and Hayfield to redistrict the neighborhoods out of overcrowded South County. The problem is that Elizabeth Bradsher, a School Board member, lives in a neighborhood that could get sent to Lake Braddock and she is completely biased and short-sighted. Why NOT spend multi-millions of dollars so her kid won't have to be on the school bus 5 extra minutes?

Include Mt. Vernon in the boundary study. This school is way under capacity and needs students to help bring up the test scores. Look what they did for South Lakes. Send students from Hayfield to Mt. Vernon, and then send students from South County to Hayfield. Lake Braddock can take a few from South County as well. No middle school or addition is needed.

Explanantion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's the whole point. There IS space at Lake
> Braddock and Hayfield to redistrict the
> neighborhoods out of overcrowded South County.
> The problem is that Elizabeth Bradsher, a School
> Board member, lives in a neighborhood that could
> get sent to Lake Braddock and she is completely
> biased and short-sighted. Why NOT spend
> multi-millions of dollars so her kid won't have to
> be on the school bus 5 extra minutes?


This is extremely frustrating with the way the SB's thinking process, biases and treatment towards the general public goes as far as we are concerned. If the SB put their own kids first such as what Bradsher is doing and Kathy with her kid in the Chantilly area with Navy going to Oakton, Stu asking for more kids in his own district to go to SL without ANY regard to these redistricted parents' feelings, then that shows how very corrupted this SB is.

Bradsher is against redistricting. That's why she wants a new addition AND middle school.

clear Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bradsher is against redistricting. That's why she
> wants a new addition AND middle school.


Huh?? From what I understood about her speech during the final boundary hearing for the Western County, she scolded these families who were affected that the schools did not belong to them and that they did not have choices only to the school board and that she supported the West County redistricting.

Bradsher doesn't want the Northwest Silverbrook area (ie Crosspointe and Barrington) to be redistricted to Lake Braddock.

THis school board sucks. Put in a new one and raise salaries for all FCPS employees. Oh and make the districts better too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2008 11:02PM by KeepOnTruckin.

&*$#)% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Include Mt. Vernon in the boundary study. This
> school is way under capacity and needs students to
> help bring up the test scores. Look what they did
> for South Lakes. Send students from Hayfield to
> Mt. Vernon, and then send students from South
> County to Hayfield. Lake Braddock can take a few
> from South County as well. No middle school or
> addition is needed.

Dan Storck, the SB member who represents Mt.Vernon, has said that Mt. Vernon cannot be redistricted because its location is too out of the way.

The SB redistricted kids out of Hayfield and sent them to South County, leaving Hayfield under enrolled. And now South County is going to get an addition because of over crowding? This is ridiculous. They make one mistake after another and correct them with more of our money! With SO many empty high school seats in that part of the county, there is NO excuse for an addition on South County OR a new middle school.

Someone needs to tell the school board the county taxpayers are not a bottom less pit of funds for them to do whatever they want with our money, our schools and our kids!

Stallion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bradsher doesn't want the Northwest Silverbrook
> area (ie Crosspointe and Barrington) to be
> redistricted to Lake Braddock.

Fine. Then send them to Hayfield or Mt.Vernon, both have hundreds of empty seats.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=thorn+bush+dr+fairfax+station+va&daddr=chapel+oak+dr+fairfax+station+va+to:long+shadows+dr+fairfax+station+to:lake+braddock+high+school+burke+va&mra=pi&mrcr=2&sll=38.736143,-77.284012&sspn=0.016771,0.028925&ie=UTF8&ll=38.741231,-77.284055&spn=0.03354,0.05785&z=14

Thorn Bush Drive, Roseland Drive, Long Shadows Drive are considered "residential estate" areas for tax purposes. Big houses - huge lots. All are near South Oaks Run and Barrington - opening up onto Ox and go to Sangster and Lake Braddock. Now if they can commute a few more miles [2-3] to Lake Braddock then why can't stuff like Chapel Oak across Ox?

Since when did big HOA's have any municipal jurisdiction? My solution is the HOA's fund the addition at SC. Raise the fees and donate.

USE Mt. Vernon, I’m so fed up with the mess the school board creates and just continues to waste tax money. Hayfield needs to be shifted to Mt. Vernon, South County can shift to Hayfield, and Lake Braddock can take the rest. That side of the county needs to be redistricted and fix the schools. Hayfield and Mt. Vernon both had renovations. Mt. Vernon is not difficult to get to that is bull shit. Why can the school board move students to South Lakes, when so many parents objected, but can not use Mt. Vernon because parent do not want to send their kids to that school. No Middle school or addition. Use what we have.

The thing is Hayfield and Lake Braddock can handle all the surplus kids right now without kids having to go to MV. What makes the transition between LB, H and SC so easy is that all 3 are AP schools and all 3 are secondary schools.

If FCPS stuck with LB and Hayfield for the South County overcrowding solution, nobody can claim that their kids would be getting an inferior education from redistricting because they wouldn't be going to IB instead of AP nor would they have to go to separate middle and high schools vs. a 7-12 secondary.

stallion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing is Hayfield and Lake Braddock can handle
> all the surplus kids right now without kids having
> to go to MV. What makes the transition between
> LB, H and SC so easy is that all 3 are AP schools
> and all 3 are secondary schools.
>
> If FCPS stuck with LB and Hayfield for the South
> County overcrowding solution, nobody can claim
> that their kids would be getting an inferior
> education from redistricting because they wouldn't
> be going to IB instead of AP nor would they have
> to go to separate middle and high schools vs. a
> 7-12 secondary.


Now do you understand why these redistricted families from the Western County objected so strongly about being redistricted to South Lakes? If redistricting can be done for an IB school, then a redistricting should happen to MV. Sounds like you are from one of those AP schools area.

Circus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stallion Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The thing is Hayfield and Lake Braddock can
> handle
> > all the surplus kids right now without kids
> having
> > to go to MV. What makes the transition between
> > LB, H and SC so easy is that all 3 are AP
> schools
> > and all 3 are secondary schools.
> >
> > If FCPS stuck with LB and Hayfield for the
> South
> > County overcrowding solution, nobody can claim
> > that their kids would be getting an inferior
> > education from redistricting because they
> wouldn't
> > be going to IB instead of AP nor would they
> have
> > to go to separate middle and high schools vs. a
> > 7-12 secondary.
>
>
> Now do you understand why these redistricted
> families from the Western County objected so
> strongly about being redistricted to South Lakes?
> If redistricting can be done for an IB school,
> then a redistricting should happen to MV. Sounds
> like you are from one of those AP schools area.



BINGO! That is why the school board is corrupt. They do not use the same logic when they make decision about areas being redistricted. Mt. Vernon got a big renovation and parents fought hard not to send their kids to that school. Now we have a big problem with South County and the only solution the school board has: is to build a middle school or add an addition to South County. Use Mt. Vernon, Hayfield and Lake Braddock. If they took students from Hayfield and sent them to Mt. Vernon, it would help that school. Remember South Lakes! Hayfield will then have more room to take South County students and Lake Braddock will take the rest.

So if the School Board is smart and has learned anything from the West County debacle, they will stick with the 3 AP SECONDARY schools of Hayfield, Lake Braddock, and South County. No parents or students will have any valid grounds to complain.

cynic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So if the School Board is smart and has learned
> anything from the West County debacle, they will
> stick with the 3 AP SECONDARY schools of Hayfield,
> Lake Braddock, and South County. No parents or
> students will have any valid grounds to complain.


Nope! include Mt. Vernon.

But if Mt Vernon is included, parents have a reason to complain. If it is not included, there are no legitimate reasons for dissent.

If the school board includes Mt. Vernon, then the tax payers have no legitimate reasons to complain. The reason South Lakes had a boundary adjustment was to add students to help that school. Mt. Vernon is in need of help. Hayfield students can be sent to Mt. Vernon to help the school. Hayfield in turn can take additioal students from South County. Lake Braddock is near capacity, and can take the rest of South County. If Mt. Vernon is not included, parents from Hayfield, Lake Braddock and South County will complain they are all at capacity and can not take students, the middle school is built. Use Mt. Vernon and all schools are below capacity and no Middle school is ever needed. Mt. Vernon is a good school just like all the other FCPS and is not difficlut to get to.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/24/AR2008032402364_2.html

Now the County Executive plans to get 10 million to fund an addition to South County. If they raise the rate .01 they generate about 22.3 million.

There are better ways to spend that money- or just don't do it since everything is more expensive including gas and food. Does anyone else live in this county besides people in the Silverbrook elementary attendance area?

taxpayer-3-27date that will live in i Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone
> else live in this county besides people in the
> Silverbrook elementary attendance area?


Apparently not. What Liz Bradsher and her cronies in Barrington, Crosspointe and neighboring communities are trying to do is criminal. Bradsher is a hypocrite of the highest order as her comments during the recent boundary change vote were clearly for show.

The SB proclaims that 2000 students is the "right" size for a high school and then they willing accept a plan which creates a 3000 student monolith at South County while Hayfield and Lake Braddock are undercapacity. Dean Tisdadt and the SB know this and are taking the cowards way out taking money from the county which could be used for needed services (or by FCPS to address the budget shortfall).

As we have seen, boundary changes are never easy, but if the SB had done the RIGHT thing 3-4 years ago with South County we would not have this mess today. Do it know, do it honestly (yeah, right!) and look forward to how we can help all FCPS students, not just those who feel entitled to a school simply because they bitched and moaned the loudest.

The school board moved students in the west to under capacity South Lakes. The schools involved in the boundary change did not have a capacity problem like South County, but the school board went ahead and shifted these schools around. If the school board can upset the lives of the west side, then the school board should do it to the south side. Move students from Hayfield to Mt. Vernon and that will create more than enough space for the South County group. The west side parents should keep a close eye on what happens to the south side. No middle school is needed. Use capacity at nearby schools. Mt. Vernon is the answer.

Sorry, don't close your eyes, just make sure the school board uses the same logic when they decide what to do with South County.

What about the space at Lake Braddock? I think that should be used as well.

Think Bradsher and Storck will quit the School Board once the construction begins? I can't see what else those 2 have done or have done besides fool around with South County.

Join in with FairfaxCAPS. They have had experience dealing with the school board and will have systems in place that can help you. fairfaxCAPS.org


Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> &*$#)% Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Include Mt. Vernon in the boundary study. This
> > school is way under capacity and needs students
> to
> > help bring up the test scores. Look what they
> did
> > for South Lakes. Send students from Hayfield to
> > Mt. Vernon, and then send students from South
> > County to Hayfield. Lake Braddock can take a
> few
> > from South County as well. No middle school or
> > addition is needed.
>
> Dan Storck, the SB member who represents
> Mt.Vernon, has said that Mt. Vernon cannot be
> redistricted because its location is too out of
> the way.
>
> The SB redistricted kids out of Hayfield and sent
> them to South County, leaving Hayfield under
> enrolled. And now South County is going to get an
> addition because of over crowding? This is
> ridiculous. They make one mistake after another
> and correct them with more of our money! With SO
> many empty high school seats in that part of the
> county, there is NO excuse for an addition on
> South County OR a new middle school.
>
> Someone needs to tell the school board the county
> taxpayers are not a bottom less pit of funds for
> them to do whatever they want with our money, our
> schools and our kids!

If you take the Silverbrook neighborhoods out of South County, SCSS will turn into another low-scoring, high FRM/ESOL school. Silverbrook parents and kids make up the backbone of the leadership of South County whether it is on the PTSA board or the classroom or the athletic fields.

Save SCSS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you take the Silverbrook neighborhoods out of
> South County, SCSS will turn into another
> low-scoring, high FRM/ESOL school. Silverbrook
> parents and kids make up the backbone of the
> leadership of South County whether it is on the
> PTSA board or the classroom or the athletic
> fields.

Then pay for it yourselves. This is absurd. You are one of the priveledged schools in this county - others include Aldrin and Forestville . No due to income but due to bizarre actionable school board preferences.

This isn't about BRAC nor is it about Lorton- it is your HOA's wanting a new school. So people from Halley, Newington Forest, Gunston, Lorton, are trash and can't exist without Siverbrookers from Fairfax station?

I know- you like being the Queen bees and wouldn't be top of the socioeconimic food chain families at Lake Braddock.

What would be better than Crosspointe in terms of the socioeconomic food chain at Lake Braddock?

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/news/2008/apr/02/county-projects-additional-shortfall/

Greater budget difficulties. I watched some of the budget hearings and sincerely doubt a lot of the school funding lobbyists ever analyzed the LOBS [lines of business/programs, construction projects]. The party is over.

Lorton’s New Land Deal
Proposal in the works to swap park and school land to pay for new middle school in Lorton.

By Amber Healy
Wednesday, April 09, 2008


A proposal is being submitted to the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors this week that may provide a plan — and funding — for a South County Middle School well before its scheduled construction on the county’s Capital Improvement Plan.

"The South County Middle School Solutions group has been working to come up with a plan that made sense, and I think we have it," said Supervisor Pat Herrity (R-Springfield).

The plan, submitted by a developer, involves a land swap, some residential development and construction of the middle school adjacent to South County Secondary School, providing the opportunity for shared athletic fields.

In the first phase of the land swap, the land currently set aside for the middle school would be sold to a developer, and about 100 houses would be built there. The money from that deal, estimated at $15-16 million, would go toward the middle school, which would be built on the land where a former Nike missile site, owned by the Fairfax County Park Authority, stands today.

The property is just north of the existing school, which would allow for the two schools to share a track and other fields.
In exchange for the Nike site, the Park Authority would receive a small parcel of land near the intersection of Furnace and Lorton Roads, currently owned by the Board of Supervisors.

If built, the school would have an entrance on Laurel Crest Lane, across from the Laurel Hill Golf Club, which would help ease traffic congestion on Silverbrook Road.


CAPACITY FOR the middle school would be about 1,250 students, slightly smaller than initial plans for the middle school but larger than the middle school capacity at South County Secondary.

On the property today are a few small, single-story buildings, which the Laurel Hill Golf Club used as storage facilities before it opened. Those buildings would most likely remain on the site, but their use has not yet been determined.

Use of that land may need Congressional approval, because it was part of the land swap approved by Congress when the Lorton Prison closed. U.S. Rep. Tom Davis (R-11) said that he has already started submitting requests to have that land opened up for development and a use other than the park land stipulated in the initial land deal in 2000.

Davis, who will leave office at the end of this year, said he wants to help however he can because it is the right thing to do, not because he wants any "legacy" projects.

"By doing a simple land swap, we will have development on the land currently designated for the middle school," said Herrity. "But, we’ll get the money we need to bridge the funding gap to build the middle school on a property adjacent to the existing school, which the School Board has said it wanted all along."


AT A MARCH 27 meeting of the Fairfax County School Board, Chief Operating Officer Dean Tistadt put the cost of a middle school at between $30 million and $40 million, if built today. If the land swap plan were approved, the $15 million from the development of new houses combined with a proposed $10 million from the Board of Supervisors would provide up to $25 million for construction of the school. Combined with $2 million set aside for planning and design of the school earlier this year, and $1.74 designated by Del. Dave Albo (R-42) and State Senator George Barker (D-39) during this year’s legislative session, the total adds up to $28.74 million.

A second land swap, which has not yet been finalized and involves the Fairfax County Park Authority and a local business, may provide an additional $10 million toward the school, which would cover construction costs.

It was another public private educational agreement, or PPEA, that provided the funding for South County Secondary School. But the deal that was originally submitted looked nothing like the plan that was eventually signed, said Fairfax County Executive Tony Griffin.

That plan took 18 months to complete, he said, and there was more land available to offer as possible locations for either a school or homes at that time.

"Plus, if you build houses in that area, that only exacerbates the overcrowding situation they’re already dealing with at South County," Griffin said.

He is sympathetic to their plight, which is why Griffin suggested the School Board ask the Board of Supervisors for $10 million over the next two fiscal years. Griffin had suggested the money be used to build a wing on South County to alleviate overcrowding, but many believe that may eliminate the chances of building a middle school in the future.

Once this plan is submitted, if county staff reviews it and feels there is a legitimate proposal here, there will be a 45-day window of opportunity for other developers to submit similar plans, Griffin said.

Herrity, along with members of the School Board, are optimistic about the proposal.

"Building a middle school is the only answer, nothing else," Herrity said. "It has been a priority for me and I feel if we can put our shoulders to the wheel, we can get this done."


SCHOOL BOARD Chairman Dan Storck (Mount Vernon) said the plan is up for discussion, but hopes it will be approved.

"There are lots of options available to the county and the South County community for what might be available for exchange," Storck said. "I think if we see a good opportunity for both the Park Authority and Fairfax County Public Schools to exchange land that provides us with a way to move the school forward and co-locate facilities, it’s one we should pursue."

Storck said he is optimistic about the plan, but the decision to pursue it is up to the Board of Supervisors.

At least two Supervisors support the plan, including Herrity and Supervisor Gerry Hyland (D-Mount Vernon), who has long said he will only accept a middle school as the solution to South County’s overcrowding.

"The proposal presents significant challenges, but it speaks for itself," Hyland said. "It requires a swap of land, a change is the land not designated for a middle school and to do something completely different, and to transfer it would provide a developer with an opportunity to build some residences."

Hyland said that while he cannot speak for the entire Board of Supervisors or School Board, he is hopeful the plan will be at least accepted for discussion.

School Board member Elizabeth "Liz" Bradsher (Springfield) said this plan may be more difficult to negotiate because less free land is available for other options, but she remains confident a middle school is the best answer, both for South County and the surrounding area.

"It’s definitely a plan that should be considered," she said. "The challenges are not insurmountable, but it depends on the amount of effort the county and the School Board want to put in to make it happen."

Tistadt, who has long said the South County area does not have the enrollment numbers now to support a middle school, said he supports the plan, so when the numbers are there, it will be easier to start building the school faster.

"I’m intrigued by the plan because if we can do it, it will allow us to share fields between the schools," Tistadt said. "If the Park Authority is willing to do it, I’m willing to do it."

However, Tistadt does not think the school needs to be built right away, and that a wing may still be the best way to ease overcrowding at South County in the immediate future.

"All these PPEAs have lots of people putting chips into play but us," he said. "It requires the Board of Supervisors and the Park Authority to make deals with benefits going to the School Board and that’s fine, if they’re willing to do that, God bless them and we’ll take it."

South County residents should take one sigh of relief about their current educational situation, however. In a memo sent to the School Board on Friday, Superintendent Dr. Jack Dale said he did not feel a boundary study should be conducted this fall.

"With or without funding for a wing, we don’t think a boundary study is the way to go because we’re nervous about the enrollment numbers at Lake Braddock," Tistadt said. "We’ve seen the numbers go up there this year and we’re expected to see another increase next year, which makes it increasingly unlikely we’ll do another study this fall."

Lake Braddock got 8 new middle schoolers from Sept 2007 until Feb 2008. It lost 12 at the high school level in the same time period. Net loss of 4. is this enough growth to preclude a boundary change or are they counting on some BOS to give the entire 3 cents to FCPS if Tisdadt-Dale cave in?

The GT center at Lake Braddock has 297 students and they come from South County, Robinson, Irving, and Lake Braddock. That is 297/1325 or 22.4% of the middle school. FCPS historically moves out GT center students when the impact on base school situations is extreme. Building an entire school or an addition rather than shifting around boundaries is really radical.

Guess what? When carson first opened people were extremely upset about leaving the Hughes Gt center. Needed room for the base school students so GTC got booted. Academics were good pre-IB /Rodriguez SL's.

taxpayer-

I honestly don't get it. Please explain to me how Lake Braddock went from 600 empy seats to at capacity in the last year.

What about Hayfield and Mt Vernon?

Someone is fudging the numbers.

For all those wanting to push Hayfield over to Mount Vernon to make room for more South County students, would you please look at a Map and tell me what part of Hayfield should shift to Mount Vernon? Those suggusting this, do not know the area or the geography. It would not work, unless the goal is to take students within miles of Hayfield and bus them more 15-20 miles. The locations of the schools in the Hayfield area with Edison and Lee a stones throw away make a proposallike thatidiotic. Hayfield is now on a path to full capacity within five years now that it did its part to relieve some crowding at SCSS. It is now LBSS turn to step up. Yes Mount Vernon has room, but come on ship Hayfielders to Mount Vernon? The only shift to Mount Vernon that would make sense is some West Potomac area. At least that school is in the same planet as Mount Vernon but good luck doing that. You think Silverbrook and Crosspointe can dig in heals try messing with Waynewood and Stratford landing

With all the empty seats at Hayfield, Mt. Vernon, Lake Braddock and surrounding schools no middle school is needed. A boundary study for that area is needed, and yes some Hayfield students can go to Mt. Vernon, other students from all over have a long commute to schools. The school board has got to stop this bull shit; I’m sick and tired of the Fairfax Station, Hayfield and Mason Neck people demanding not to be moved. GET OVER IT!

dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For all those wanting to push Hayfield over to
> Mount Vernon to make room for more South County
> students, would you please look at a Map and tell
> me what part of Hayfield should shift to Mount
> Vernon? Those suggusting this, do not know the
> area or the geography. It would not work, unless
> the goal is to take students within miles of
> Hayfield and bus them more 15-20 miles. The
> locations of the schools in the Hayfield area with
> Edison and Lee a stones throw away make a
> proposallike thatidiotic. Hayfield is now on a
> path to full capacity within five years now that
> it did its part to relieve some crowding at SCSS.
> It is now LBSS turn to step up. Yes Mount Vernon
> has room, but come on ship Hayfielders to Mount
> Vernon? The only shift to Mount Vernon that would
> make sense is some West Potomac area. At least
> that school is in the same planet as Mount Vernon
> but good luck doing that. You think Silverbrook
> and Crosspointe can dig in heals try messing with
> Waynewood and Stratford landing

Let's play dominoes! I'd rather kids have decent class sizes than this BS of not using facilities. Move some West potomac into Mount Vernon - I really don't care. Just like I would not care if Strauss and Gibson got called on the carpet via this lawsuit for their Langley-Herndon BS plus the addition at Langley.

Get Oprah. Put these boundaries on National TV and see how long they last.

Why doesn't the SB care about Mt Vernon's undercapicity and high FRM and ESL ratios?

They were hellbent on correcting SLHS but seem indifferent to the woes at Mt Vernon. Mayber the Mt Vernon PTA can hire some of the SLHS PTA people who hijacked the Westfield/Oakton kids.

You have to give them credit-they got it done.

CT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The third post's advocacy of "Creative financing"
> is exactly why I am concerned. Tiles were
> literally falling down from the Woodson ceilings
> because their renovations were pushed back by the
> premature building of South County. If falling
> debris had actually injured a student or
> staffer,there would have been hell to pay.
>
> There are more than enough spaces between Hayfield
> and LB secondaries and the high schools of Lee, MV
> and WS (and their middle schools) to handle
> whatever additional 7th through 12th graders that
> BRAC may bring.

Is FCPS selling land to a developer? YES. Then they will build the middle school with this money and jump ahead of dozen of schools that are ahead of them on the CIP programs.

If they sell the land, should it not be used to reduce classroom size? Should it not be used in order to replace cuts in the budget?

Sounds like corruption to me.

STOP THIS MIDDLE SCHOOL NOW.

SCSS (grades 7-12) is projected to be overcrowded by about 320 students in 2012 when newly-renovated Lake Braddock is projected to have over 600 empty seats. It would be logical to redistrict about 100 students per grade, including the west half of Silverbrook, to Lake Braddock, an AP school.

SOCO needs to be Redistricted now in order to fill the empty seats at LB and save 50 million dollars.

SHOULD WSHS BE SHUT DOWN DUE TO UNSAFE CONDITIONS THAT HAVE STUDENTS AND TEACHERS IN HARMS WAY.


January 9, 2008
Via Mail and Hand Delivery
Fairfax County School Board ("FCSB")
8115 Gatehouse Road, Suite 5400
Falls Church, VA 22042

Attn: Pam Goddard, Clerk of the Board
Re: Capital Improvement Program ("CIP") hearing on January 9, 2007

Dear Ms. Goddard:
We are pleased to submit the enclosed presentation in support of our position that West
Springfield High School ("WSHS") should be included on the current Capital Improvement
Program ("CIP"). By including WSHS on the CIP, our hope is that the school can be renovated
to meet minimum health, safety, and learning requirements for our students and teachers.
We look forward to discussing our position with you at the CIP hearing on January 9, 2008. In
the interim, should you have any questions regarding our presentation, please do not hesitate to
reach me at 703.926.5770 or via email at "Nancy Baldino" wsptsa@cox.net.
Sincerely,

Nancy Baldino
President, West Springfield High School PTA

cc: Daniel Storck, Chairman, FCSB
` Kathy Smith, FCSB
Elizabeth Bradsher, FCSB
Brad Center, FCSB
Stuart Gibson, FCSB
Martina Hone, FCSB
Kaye Kory, FCSB
Ilrong Moon, FCSB
Philip Niedzielskieichner, FCSB
James Raney, FCSB
Jane Strauss, FCSB
Judith Wilson, FCSB
1
I. Reasons to Include WSHS on the CIP
West Springfield High School ("WSHS") should be included on the CIP:
n WSHS was built in 1966.
Renovations to the structure --
including the HVAC system,
windows, and plumbing -- have not
occurred since the school was built
42 years ago;
n WSHS is the only high school built
by Fairfax County during the 1960s
that has not been renovated or
scheduled to be renovated;
n All other high schools in WSHS'
geographic area have been
renovated within the past 9 years
or are scheduled for renovation
(Lee, Hayfield, South County,
Fairfax, Annandale, Lake
Braddock, Edison);
n WSHS is an existing structure
within the County that is crying out
for renovation;
n Classrooms, common areas, and sports facilities require immediate attention;
n Over 3,923 work orders submitted to the County over the past three years to address
needed repairs;
2
n Dire conditions at WSHS have created safety and health concerns (crumbling infrastructure,
rusting and leaking plumbing, faulty lighting, no sidewalks, mold and poor air quality in
classrooms);
n Dire conditions have caused Fairfax County to authorize some emergency repairs to some
bathrooms and plumbing;
n Continuing to make emergency repairs to WSHS is not the best use of limited Fairfax County
resources; and
n Age of the school mandates a complete renovation in line with CIP criteria.
II. CIP Criteria
West Springfield High School ("WSHS") should be included on the Capital Improvement
Program ("CIP") in light of existing CIP criteria:
n FCPS CIP programs are designed to provide the best possible environment conducive to
learning;
n Renovations are aimed at assuring that all schools can provide the facilities necessary to
support educational programs;
n Renovations should occur every 20-25 years in order to protect Fairfax County's capital
investment in its schools;
n It is our understanding that WSHS was identified as one of five high schools in Fairfax
County in terms of needing immediate renovations. The remaining four high schools
(Woodson, Edison, Marshall, Thomas Jefferson) are included on the current CIP plan.
3
III. Current School Conditions
Classrooms
Due to the age of the school and the
school's extensive use, the overall
condition of the school is deteriorating.
Below are some specific examples of
current conditions:
n Current electrical system cannot
support the simultaneous use of
multiple educational aids such as
computers and copiers;
n Rusted and leaking pipes result in
damage to floors and ceiling
throughout the school;
n Desks in the classrooms appear to be
the original ones from when the
school first opened;
n Trailers are scattered across the
school's parking lot creating safety
concerns;
n Many heating / AC Units are not
operational and cannot be regulated;
n Original single-pane windows (many
are not functional or are welded
shut);
n Mold in ceiling tiles / carpeting from
leaking pipes creates health issues in
classrooms (carpets have not been
replaced in decades).
n Concrete walls do not permit
teachers to hang educational aids on
the walls.
4
Music Wing
n Music Wing does not meet current county specifications for performing arts instructional
spaces.
n Designed to service approximately 250 students, music department is currently servicing
approximately 780 students.
n Some music classes are held in the hallways due to overcrowding.
n Water leaks from ceiling damage sheet music stored in Band Director's office.
Common Areas
n Carpeting
throughout the school is covered with mold and dirt. Much of this covering is not being
picked up by FCPS facilities because it involves asbestos. If uncovered, it could cause a
HAZMAT situation.
5
n Bathrooms are part of the original construction from 1966. Most bathrooms:
A) do not receive hot water (an important consideration given FCPS recommendations re:
MRSA);
B) smell bad and have very poor ventilation.
C) do not have toilets that flush; and
D) do not have running water.
n Water Coolers are generally not operational. The water coolers that are operational leak,
causing continuous water damage to carpeting and ceilings. Lighting fixtures / structure are
part of the original structure, creating dark classrooms and common areas inconsistent with
a positive learning environment.
6
Sports Facilities
n Rusted outdoor light fixtures;
n Wooden poles holding electrical wiring do not comply with County regulations and create a
dangerous environment;
n Outdoor track is uneven and has potholes (no track meets are held at WSHS).
.
7
IV. Comments from Teachers at WSHS
"I truly believe that a structure conveys a message. A structure that is badly worn and out of
date does not convey the idea of a world-class education or state of the art education."
"If WSHS is to continue to attract residents and students who desire a top notch education, and
if it wants to continue to attract top notch teachers, we need to provide a facility in line with nearby
schools such as renovated Lake Braddock HS and Lee HS and newly constructed South
County High School."
The girls' bathroom in the business wing "constantly leaks from the toilet in the middle stall. I
have been reporting this leak for two years now."
"For close to 30 years I have walked dark hallways - the lighting in the halls is really bad."
"All of the bathrooms are abysmal."
"Beyond my classroom, I see a school that is crying for renovation."
8
V. Conclusion
West Springfield High School ("WSHS") should be included on the CIP in light of CIP criteria:
n Renovations are suppose to occur every
20-25 years: Built in 1966, WSHS has not
been renovated since being built over 42
years ago.
n WSHS is the only high school built by
Fairfax County during this period that has
not been renovated or scheduled to be
renovated.
n The School Board has the authority to
remedy this situation.
n WSHS should be renovated to meet
minimum health, safety, and learning
requirements for our students and
teachers.
n FCSB should take this opportunity to include WSHS on the CIP.

I would bet money that since WSHS was built in the 60's that school is crawling with asbestos.

Unsafe conditions for students and staff at WSHS and yet this SB wants to build a new middle school in SOCO instead of renovations to WSHS.

I can't wait until Bradsher says that SCSS doesn't belong to Crosspointe and Barrington. That was her main plank of her platform: that she and her neighbors BUILT SC nail by nail.

She was a bitch, is a bitch and will always be a bitch.

I am a parent of 3 in the WSHS pyramid and am a bit disturbed to read this letter from our PTA President. Why do we keep getting ignored by our SB rep, Bradsher? I am sick and tired of SOCO being served lobster while the rest of us get pork and beans.

Liz- expect a call from me and my neighbors next week.

WSHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
? I am sick and tired of SOCO
> being served lobster while the rest of us get pork
> and beans.

you're lucky - given that there's so much pork around, why do we only we get beans...

MORALITY?????????????????? The SB has none.

THE RICH WHITE FOLK GET WHAT THEY WANT IN SOCO.

One new HS, one new ES and One new middle school.

No student will be on a bus for more then 15 minutes and these students will all be in the same school pyramid.

Has the SB done the SAME FOR MINORITY GROUPS WHO ARE NOT RICH?

NO AND HELL NO.

WSHS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a parent of 3 in the WSHS pyramid and am a
> bit disturbed to read this letter from our PTA
> President. Why do we keep getting ignored by our
> SB rep, Bradsher? I am sick and tired of SOCO
> being served lobster while the rest of us get pork
> and beans.
>
> Liz- expect a call from me and my neighbors next
> week.



TAXPAYERS ALERT


All parents in Fairfax County must expect full disclosure from the SB on how this South County middle school is being built, where every penny comes from, any land deals and any incorrect procedures need to be watch/reported on this site.

WATCHDOG SAID


All parents in Fairfax County must expect full disclosure from the SB on how this South County middle school is being built, where every penny comes from, any land deals and any incorrect procedures need to be watch/reported on this site.


Suggestion for the SB. No middle school for SOCO.

Instead, make the new Laureal High ES into a 6/7/8 grade school. This will reduce over capacity issues at Silverbrook ES, Lorton Station ES and SOCO HS.

Do the above and FCPS saves 50 million.

We love what the current FFX School Board is doing. What is your problem?

All the positive attributes that you list above are what every parent in Fairfax County wants for their children - community schools. The South County area is the fastest growing area in the county, with thousands of new homes built in the last 5 years. There is a need for these schools and the community is fighting for that. This has nothing to do with race or wealth and you clearly know nothing about SOCO to make that statement. Those views are short-sighted and show your lack of understanding the issues.

MS Yes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All the positive attributes that you list above
> are what every parent in Fairfax County wants for
> their children - community schools. The South
> County area is the fastest growing area in the
> county, with thousands of new homes built in the
> last 5 years. There is a need for these schools
> and the community is fighting for that. This has
> nothing to do with race or wealth and you clearly
> know nothing about SOCO to make that statement.
> Those views are short-sighted and show your lack
> of understanding the issues.

I think you have no clue on what is going on in the FCPS system when you state that every parent in FFX county wants community schools for their children.

I think you should read some of the 290 pages of this blog or ask the people of western FFX county how they have been destroyed by the school board.

How they have no community schools, how they have split feeder schools and how they have been screwed for the last ten years by the FCPS board.

They do not want to go to South Lakes, the same way you do not want to go to Hayfield or Lee.

You want your cake, you want to eat it and tell everyone where.

I am sick and tired of the SOCO whiners and their misguided sense of entitlement to this middle school.

FACT: FCPS is facing a $100 million budget deficit

FACT: Fairfax County has a declining revenue base given the real estate market.

FACT: Many FCPS facilities are in desperate need of renovations-some have not been renovated for 40 years.

FACT: There are 4 schools surrounding SOCO that have 1200 empty seats-SOCO is overcrowded by 450 students.

FACT: Many students in FCPS commute long distances to get to their schools. SOCO families should do the same.

When that dingbat spoke at the SB meeting and stated that she brought ber piggybank with $27 million I had to laugh. Who the hell made her queen? She stole $2 million from BRAC planning, she hocked some piece of PUBLIC land for $15 million and the BOS is offering $10 million to shut Storck and Bradsher up. How exactly is that her piggy bank?

This SB is wasting so much time on this garbage someone needs to tell them NO! Maybe then the SB will start giving a damn about the other 165,000 students in FCPS.

We have all been "screwed" by Facilities inablity to make accurate forecasts and projections and by always taking the easy way out. Maybe for once, they'll get it right. Lee and Hayfield are excellent schools, however Lee is over 100% utlized, Hayfield will continue to receive students thru the 2011 boundary phase-in and will be at 95% capacity. The need is clear, the facts are clear. This is not about entitlement, race, wealth, or pitting communities against each other. We should all be working to find the best solutions for all our kids....

Do share with the group the "FACTS" about capacity levels at neighboring schools and don't forget Mt Vernon!!

IT's not YOUR MONEY. IT's our money. There are many places that need it more than your selfish ass. Get over yourself, please.

There's a lot of misinformed bitterness in your statements. Moving on.

MS Yes-

You apparently are on the moral high ground so do tell us how deserving you are of your new school???

I am genuinely curious how your group has the gall to continue to demand this school.

Please tell us your justification for this expense. And please leave out the emotional language such as, "community school", etc.

Notice how once again Ms Yes and the other SCites forget to mention the surplus seats at Lake Braddock? Perhaps because it is the North Silverbrook area that would be most likely to be redistricted. If the Silverbrookers were smarter, they wouldn't be denying the LBSS potential but perhaps think of another SCSS neighborhood that could be redistricted, ie Newington Forest.

Past Bond Referendums for FCPS Fat Cats:

1988 $179 million
1990 $169 million
1993 $140 million
1995 $204 million
1997 $233 million
1999 $297 million
2001 $378 million
2003 $290 million
2005 $246 million
2007 $365 million

Enough is enough-we need to be more responsible with the money we spend. Our schools are badly needing renovations.

It is hopelessly irresponsible to build a school we don't need.

? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Notice how once again Ms Yes and the other SCites
> forget to mention the surplus seats at Lake
> Braddock? Perhaps because it is the North
> Silverbrook area that would be most likely to be
> redistricted. If the Silverbrookers were smarter,
> they wouldn't be denying the LBSS potential but
> perhaps think of another SCSS neighborhood that
> could be redistricted, ie Newington Forest.

____________________________________________________________

The extra seats simply do not exist at LBSS. In fact, somebody goofed the projections by HUNDREDS (imagine that...) and the school is technically PACKED.

MS Yes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have all been "screwed" by Facilities inablity
> to make accurate forecasts and projections and by
> always taking the easy way out. Maybe for once,
> they'll get it right. Lee and Hayfield are
> excellent schools, however Lee is over 100%
> utlized, Hayfield will continue to receive
> students thru the 2011 boundary phase-in and will
> be at 95% capacity. The need is clear, the facts
> are clear. This is not about entitlement, race,
> wealth, or pitting communities against each other.
> We should all be working to find the best
> solutions for all our kids....


_________________________________________________________________

MS YES, do not be discouraged by the 8 or 9 people here who keep posting their banter about how SCMS is not needed.

They spout off and never really offer anything credible or verifiable except their anger and disgust of their perceptions.

I applaud you for the breath of fresh air in this pig of a thread

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Notice how once again Ms Yes and the other
> SCites
> > forget to mention the surplus seats at Lake
> > Braddock? Perhaps because it is the North
> > Silverbrook area that would be most likely to
> be
> > redistricted. If the Silverbrookers were
> smarter,
> > they wouldn't be denying the LBSS potential but
> > perhaps think of another SCSS neighborhood that
> > could be redistricted, ie Newington Forest.
>
> __________________________________________________
> __________
>
> The extra seats simply do not exist at LBSS. In
> fact, somebody goofed the projections by HUNDREDS
> (imagine that...) and the school is technically
> PACKED.


Read this,

Dean

I reviewed the CIP for 2009-13 for Lake Braddock HS and Middle School.

The listed capacity for Lake Braddock HS is 2725-the current enrollment is 2459.

The listed capacity for Lake Braddock MS is 1350-the current enrollment is 1311.

That equals under capacity of 305.

How is FCPS now saying that LB is at capacity?


Packed, BS

I do not have the data to cite in front of me, but I'll play your game...

_______________________________________________________________

Read this,

Dean

I reviewed the revised CIP for 2009-13 for Lake Braddock
HS and Middle School.

The listed capacity for Lake Braddock HS is
2725-the current enrollment is 2759.

The listed capacity for Lake Braddock MS is
1350-the current enrollment is 1316.

That equals an over capacity and we should break ground on the South County Middle School ASAP!




Packed? How could our number be continually WRONG!?!?!?!

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not have the data to cite in front of me, but
> I'll play your game...
>
> __________________________________________________
> _____________
>
> Read this,
>
> Dean
>
> I reviewed the revised CIP for 2009-13 for Lake
> Braddock
> HS and Middle School.
>
> The listed capacity for Lake Braddock HS is
> 2725-the current enrollment is 2759.
>
> The listed capacity for Lake Braddock MS is
> 1350-the current enrollment is 1316.
>
> That equals an over capacity and we should break
> ground on the South County Middle School ASAP!
>
>
>
>
> Packed? How could our number be continually
> WRONG!?!?!?!


BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DUE SIMPLE MATH,YOU NEED TO TAKE MATH AGAIN.

305 UNDER CAPACITY AT LB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DUE SIMPLE MATH,YOU NEED TO
> TAKE MATH AGAIN.


________________________________________________________

I cannot DO what??? LMAO!!!!

Yes - you have won. The BOS found 5 million to bond in each of 2 years. Guess other stuff will be bumped on completion dates. P'Caso [sex offender unit] of our police was funded with money procurred via a grant.

FX no longer has the full funding and the county might be short 3 detectives. I would rather fund these detectives and stick some kids on a bus to Lake Braddock.

The BOS made a choice. Sexual predators and children V SOCO. Not a proud moment in the history of this county. What about the 2000 student high school target enrollment?

ffxn8v Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MS Yes Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We have all been "screwed" by Facilities
> inablity
> > to make accurate forecasts and projections and
> by
> > always taking the easy way out. Maybe for
> once,
> > they'll get it right. Lee and Hayfield are
> > excellent schools, however Lee is over 100%
> > utlized, Hayfield will continue to receive
> > students thru the 2011 boundary phase-in and
> will
> > be at 95% capacity. The need is clear, the
> facts
> > are clear. This is not about entitlement, race,
> > wealth, or pitting communities against each
> other.
> > We should all be working to find the best
> > solutions for all our kids....
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> _______________
>
> MS YES, do not be discouraged by the 8 or 9 people
> here who keep posting their banter about how SCMS
> is not needed.
>
> They spout off and never really offer anything
> credible or verifiable except their anger and
> disgust of their perceptions.
>
> I applaud you for the breath of fresh air in this
> pig of a thread

Since Gerry Connelly said that illegals are welcome here and the population of FCPS increased by 1500 students this year. Dr. Dale said that they are expecting an additional 1,000 in the fall, students they did not expect before this year.

I suggest that with three new schools in SOCO, send all illegals to SOCO HS, SOCO middle school and the Laureal Hill ES.

MS supporters-call Dean Tistadt's office and ask him if LBHS is full?

You are a bunch of liars and you know it.

You bought Storck. Bradsher lives in the neighborhood and the rest of the SB members are a bunch of pathetic wimps.

This is what apathy gets you Fairfax County taxpayers and parents.

And our kids suffer and our grandkids inherit this debt.

Way to mortgage our kids future BOS and SB. You are the ones who need a morality test? We know you will fail miserably. Our kids have more integrity and honesty in them then you could ever hope for.

Time will tell. Five years from now we will have schools at 75 percent capacity but the SOCO lot will have their new school.

Good for them.

Dan Storck is for sale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MS supporters-call Dean Tistadt's office and ask
> him if LBHS is full?
>
> You are a bunch of liars and you know it.
>
> You bought Storck. Bradsher lives in the
> neighborhood and the rest of the SB members are a
> bunch of pathetic wimps.
>
> This is what apathy gets you Fairfax County
> taxpayers and parents.
>
> And our kids suffer and our grandkids inherit this
> debt.
>
> Way to mortgage our kids future BOS and SB. You
> are the ones who need a morality test? We know you
> will fail miserably. Our kids have more integrity
> and honesty in them then you could ever hope for.
>
> Time will tell. Five years from now we will have
> schools at 75 percent capacity but the SOCO lot
> will have their new school.
>
> Good for them.

I know some think this is all about Storck/Bradsher acting on behalf of their own communities to the detriment of the greater good, but how much of this is due to the county trying to send a message that it will bend over backwards to get the extra jobs at Fort Belvoir, even if means building a school that really isn't necessary?

The same thing was going on when the county decided to turn TJ into a magnet school back in the 80s. None of the schools were considered failing schools at the time, and the county was producing a lot of National Merit Scholars, etc., but the county decided that a science/tech magnet school would send a strong message to businesses that Fairfax was a pro-business jurisdiction.

Seems to me it may be deja vu all over again.

Seems to me it's deja vu all over again.

illegals are welcome in SOCO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since Gerry Connelly said that illegals are
> welcome here and the population of FCPS increased
> by 1500 students this year. Dr. Dale said that
> they are expecting an additional 1,000 in the
> fall, students they did not expect before this
> year.
>
> I suggest that with three new schools in SOCO,
> send all illegals to SOCO HS, SOCO middle school
> and the Laureal Hill ES.

Put Transitional ESOL at SOCO. Connelly wants that for his Congressional Run. I hope providence District turns on him. Hyland sold out most of his constituents.

All that money for a few HOA's - Barrington is one. These people are despicable and fools.

The latest BRAC estimate I saw was a gain of 50 students.

Give me a break.

I am tired of being lied to by these crooks.

Bradsher will turn on people Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't wait until Bradsher says that SCSS doesn't
> belong to Crosspointe and Barrington. That was her
> main plank of her platform: that she and her
> neighbors BUILT SC nail by nail.
>
> She was a bitch, is a bitch and will always be a
> bitch.


This is all just hilarious to me. You people don't know anything about being on the school board, especially you, "Watchdog." Get a new hobby and quit stalking school board members, it's getting old.


Also, for you West Springfield people who think you're not getting any attention from Bradsher, get over yourselves. She is on the phone 24/7 trying to get things done for that school and to move it up on the CIP.

Furthermore, I am not being served any lobster over here... take it from someone who knows firsthand :-)

Lizzy if you and the SB cannot take the heat you better get out of the kitchen or resign .

Lizzy what school or schools are you going to screw by moving WSHS up on the CIP list?

Lizzy it is all about what you have failed to do and how you do things in your own corrupt way.

PEOPLE AGAINST BRADSHER Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lizzy if you and the SB cannot take the heat you
> better get out of the kitchen or resign .
>
> Lizzy what school or schools are you going to
> screw by moving WSHS up on the CIP list?
>
> Lizzy it is all about what you have failed to do
> and how you do things in your own corrupt way.

Right now West Springfield isn't mentioned in the CIP at all. The usual steps would be to get funding for a planning study first and then, in the next cycle, get funding for actual renovations.

Perhaps all the prior poster meant is that Liz Bradsher will work hard to get WSHS included in the next CIP. If so, more power to her. OTOH, if Bradsher thinks she can leapfrog West Springfield over other schools that have already been identified in the CIP as having more pressing needs, however, she should think long and hard. The taxpayers and parents are losing trust in the SB, and watching their actions far more carefully than before.

I don't think that ANY project should bump a current project already on the CIP. Liz wants to push 2, an unneeded middle school and a somewhat-needed-but-can-wait renovation project for a currently existing hgh school. Interesting that both schemes are in her district. I thought that the Dems were the porkbarrel project prodigies. Bradsher is a RINO.

Bradsher is LEAPFROGGING construction of the South County Middle school over other projects. IF Fairfax County sells-trades a public asset or brokers a deal then why does the money from it have to go to South County?

Robinson did not get a full renovation. Should all areas of the county pursue their own deals? That is chaotic and diverts time and energy on the part of staff.

What's the point of a county wide school division? Not much at this point. If FCPS split up would the pieces get more state funding than currently comes in to Fairfax?

There are going to be lots of angry parents in this and next year's budget cycle. More than can be imagined. Could Connelly have eroded some support base for his 11th district election?

Does anyone know the backlog figure?

I thought it was like $700 million in unfunded projects??

Lizzie Bordon has a lot of nerve cutting in line for WSHS.

She has used up her political capital on the SOCO whores.

She'll figure it out eventually.

Last I checked, voters had a choice in the election.

Each person was clear on their platform and Liz Bradsher won by chunk over her opponent, Ramona Morrow. A BIG CHUNK!!!


Get over it. Really!

Lots of hatred on this BLOG by people who are complaining about what? The democratic process, people standing up for their kids and what they believe in, actually getting out and doing something to make a difference?

Really Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lots of hatred on this BLOG by people who are
> complaining about what? The democratic process,
> people standing up for their kids and what they
> believe in, actually getting out and doing
> something to make a difference?


The people in Western Fairfax County did stand up for their children and what they believed in, but they were F--KED by the FCPS SB.

CIP Backlog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know the backlog figure?
>
> I thought it was like $700 million in unfunded
> projects??
>
> Lizzie Bordon has a lot of nerve cutting in line
> for WSHS.
>
> She has used up her political capital on the SOCO
> whores.
>
> She'll figure it out eventually.


SHE WILL NEVER GET IT BECAUSE SHE IS ALL ABOUT HERSELF.

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bradsher is LEAPFROGGING construction of the South
> County Middle school over other projects. IF
> Fairfax County sells-trades a public asset or
> brokers a deal then why does the money from it
> have to go to South County?
>
> Robinson did not get a full renovation. Should
> all areas of the county pursue their own deals?
> That is chaotic and diverts time and energy on the
> part of staff.
>
> What's the point of a county wide school division?
> Not much at this point. If FCPS split up would
> the pieces get more state funding than currently
> comes in to Fairfax?
>
> There are going to be lots of angry parents in
> this and next year's budget cycle. More than can
> be imagined. Could Connelly have eroded some
> support base for his 11th district election?


The SOCO middle school is scheduled to be built in 2017, no moving up, stay in line.

I'm not sure how she's about herself when she has done nothing but fight for the kids in Springfield. She gets it and that's why she ran for SB and won.

Not sure what those people complaining about west Springfield mean becuase it got renovated in the early 90's. Thats when they got the addition. I happen to know that the a/c system was updated. All school have heating/cooling troubles, a lot of times its just 1 or 2 classrooms. Wear a sweatshirt or open the windows.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure what those people complaining about west
> Springfield mean becuase it got renovated in the
> early 90's. Thats when they got the addition. I
> happen to know that the a/c system was updated.
> All school have heating/cooling troubles, a lot of
> times its just 1 or 2 classrooms. Wear a
> sweatshirt or open the windows.


__________________________________________________________________

Don't confuse the subject with any facts, those are not welcomed in any FCSB threads. LOL

I am new to the conversation but not the issue so please forgive me if this ground has already been treaded upon. The people who reside in Lorton [not Fairfax Station (with the Lorton address), not Laurel Hill, not Mason Neck -- even though all are part of Lorton ) are the ones most deserving of attending the new schools in the South County area because they are the ones who have suffered with the stigma that has been attached to the Lorton name for the past 100 years. It is they who endured the prison; it is they who have been discriminated against, and it is they who should share in the rewards that have accrued to all of the newer residents of that area. Unfortunately, they are not the ones who show up at the School Board meeting or community rally or political fundraiser so their voice is rarely, if ever, heard. The need for a middle school goes beyond seats. It gets to the heart of bridging a racial divide that is growing ever wider in this part of the county because having the capacity to fit 4000 kinds in grades 7-12 is what is needed to accomodate all of Lorton's children, not just the select few. Lorton has no defined geographic boundary, just a zip code, but it is a community that is still defining itself, especially in the wake of the prison closing. By building the middle school, you do more than alleviate an overcapacity problem at SCSS. You heal a region that is on the brink of tearing itself apart because people will define 'community schools' in whatever way fits their biases. Racism and bigotry have no place in modern society and especially in Fairfax County. A public school serves as the institution that brings all people together (or at least their sons and daughters). Yes, there is still capacity at Hayfield (for the moment) and yes, there may be some capacity at Lake Braddock as well, but busing kids to those schools (which would be anywhere between 7 and 15 miles away) doesn't provide the neutral ground where all of Lorton's children can live, work and learn together.

Sounds like the Lorton champion is saying that the people who have a Lorton address have been DISCRIMINATED against for years by the people who live in Fairfax Station, Mason Neck and Laurel Hill.

He states, "You heal a region that is on the brink of tearing itself apart because people will define 'community schools' in whatever way fits their biases. Racism and bigotry have no place in modern society and especially in Fairfax County".

I wonder if the school board and FCPS have played a big part in the division that exist in the South County area? Is it because the SB told the students along route one that they have to go to Hayfield and that the student who live in Mason Neck could leap over the route one students and could go to SCSS.

Is it because these people do not show up at School Board meetings or community rally or political fundraiser so their voice is rarely, if ever, heard.

Is it because these people do not have the money to give SB members?

BIG PROBLEMS IN SOCO FOR FCPS.

Never mind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2008 09:56AM by MBF.

Not sure what your lovefest is with Bradsher but the reason people resent her is because she is taking more than her share.

This SB tries to play nice and give ALL members what their district deserves. Lorton and SOCO have been taken care of given all their new shiny schools. Let's save some of the money for the aging facilities in Falls Church and other areas.

Nobody made you move to Lorton-that was your choice.

The South County area is going through a transformation, not unlike South Riding and Ashburn, where once sparcely inhabited areas become the next suburb. There are always growing pains in these situations and because of the new growth, schools are needed. The Lorton area is full of wonderful heritage and history and much of that is being incorporated into the new Lorton. Your statement above is so true, "A public school serves as the institution that brings all people together," and that includes the old and new residents. Everyone in Lorton benefits from having new schools in the community.

The "community school" crap is getting old. Most FCPS students commute great distances to get to their school. That is just the way it is.

Stop with the greed. You are taking resources away from schools that have greater needs than your kids.

At least have the guts to admit that you are selfish.

this is getting old Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The "community school" crap is getting old. Most
> FCPS students commute great distances to get to
> their school. That is just the way it is.
>
> Stop with the greed. You are taking resources
> away from schools that have greater needs than
> your kids.
>
> At least have the guts to admit that you are
> selfish.


You got it right. The people in SOCO are a very self interest only group who only care about themselves and are supported by the corrupt Storck and Bradsher.

Really Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The South County area is going through a
> transformation, not unlike South Riding and
> Ashburn, where once sparcely inhabited areas
> become the next suburb. There are always growing
> pains in these situations and because of the new
> growth, schools are needed. The Lorton area is
> full of wonderful heritage and history and much of
> that is being incorporated into the new Lorton.
> Your statement above is so true, "A public school
> serves as the institution that brings all people
> together," and that includes the old and new
> residents. Everyone in Lorton benefits from
> having new schools in the community.

And what benefit are those new schools when everyone already paid for spots to sit your kids at adjacent schools? Prices of houses were high in Fairfax station [Barrington et al] when the prison was still open. You people are playing everyone for fools. If Connelly was NOT running for Congress would he be doing this?

How many school attendance areas does the 11th district cover? There are others and his opponents will be using this against him. Why was Steve Hunt not re-elected? He and Storck spent a lot of time on needs of fairfax station.

Will Storck irritate the voters in the Mount vernon and West Potomac Pyramid? lots of angry people at hollins meadows ? What about Kaye Kory's Army of Testifiers at Stuart? My guess is they are not going to be quiet ...I have no idea how this will play out since it's not just SOCO's money. Why not become your own school division?

If the Fairfax Station subdivisions that comprise North Silverbrook were redistricted to Lake Braddock, there would be plenty of room at the Lorton- zipcoded SCSS for Lorton residents. SCSS, a Lorton school, should be for Lorton residents first.

No doubt this will bite Connelly in the ass on election day once FC taxpayers add up all the numbers.

We are in a recession bordering on a depression for goodness sakes. The budget problems will continue for the next few years.

FCPS couldn't even cut $100 million from their $2 billion dollar budget. Folks were outraged at the idea of paying for AP/IB tests, sports teams and the like.

Who is going to pay the $1 billion that FCPS has racked up in debt over the years? Who is paying the $50 million in interest that accrues on that debt each year?

Look at the CIP. Look at all the schools that are in dire need of renovations. Look at what Loudon County had to do with their CIP because of lack of funds. They don't have enough money for new roofs and road paving.

Are you SOCO nuts blind? WE CAN'T AFFORD YOUR NEW SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Go to Hayfield. Go to MT. Vernon. Go to Lake Braddock. Go to Lee.

Stop this madness.

THE SOUTH COUNTY SOLUTION GROUP AND THE SOUTH COUNTY FEDERATION INDICATED THAT THEY HAVE 27 MILLION DOLLARS? I say that they are full of shit and they have no money in their piggybank for the new MS.Ask them to show us the money?

All you get from these people is BS and more BS.





Connelly will regret this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No doubt this will bite Connelly in the ass on
> election day once FC taxpayers add up all the
> numbers.
>
> We are in a recession bordering on a depression
> for goodness sakes. The budget problems will
> continue for the next few years.
>
> FCPS couldn't even cut $100 million from their $2
> billion dollar budget. Folks were outraged at the
> idea of paying for AP/IB tests, sports teams and
> the like.
>
> Who is going to pay the $1 billion that FCPS has
> racked up in debt over the years? Who is paying
> the $50 million in interest that accrues on that
> debt each year?
>
> Look at the CIP. Look at all the schools that are
> in dire need of renovations. Look at what Loudon
> County had to do with their CIP because of lack of
> funds. They don't have enough money for new roofs
> and road paving.
>
> Are you SOCO nuts blind? WE CAN'T AFFORD YOUR NEW
> SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Go to Hayfield. Go to MT. Vernon. Go to Lake
> Braddock. Go to Lee.
>
> Stop this madness.

Another poster noted that Hayfield lost a huge chunk of its student body when SCSS was built. Now its SAT scores are the lowest in the county.

Even so, the county claims in the CIP that attendance at Hayfield High will increase from 1582 in 2007 to over 2000 in 2012.

Does this seem realistic? Will this growth occur if test scores are plummeting? Shouldn't the school board be more concerned with preventing a death spiral at Hayfield than building another new school in SC? I read the post about how a new school in Lorton would "heal" and "unite" the community, but seems like there's a huge problem looming next door, not to mention empty seats.

Inquiring Mind – that is true, Hayfield has many empty seats. They also have low test scores. The Hayfield community doesn’t want the route 1 students to come back to their school, so they say they don’t have the room. My guess is they want to fill up Lake Braddock with the Silverbrook students and keep the route 1 students at South County. Once this is done, they can choose students from another area, maybe Springfield, to fill up the seats. Pretty tricky

Don't use scare tactics. Even if there was a need, Lee and WSHS aren't close enough to Hayfield to get redistricted there. Lee and West Springfield are also not overcrowded or under capacity. LB, MV, and Hayfield have the extra room. SCSS has the excess students.

Inquiring Mind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another poster noted that Hayfield lost a huge
> chunk of its student body when SCSS was built.
> Now its SAT scores are the lowest in the county.
>
> Even so, the county claims in the CIP that
> attendance at Hayfield High will increase from
> 1582 in 2007 to over 2000 in 2012.
>
> Does this seem realistic? Will this growth occur
> if test scores are plummeting? Shouldn't the
> school board be more concerned with preventing a
> death spiral at Hayfield than building another new
> school in SC? I read the post about how a new
> school in Lorton would "heal" and "unite" the
> community, but seems like there's a huge problem
> looming next door, not to mention empty seats.

Hayfield is getting a phase-in from the second South County boundary process. That process cancelled the west end movement to Lke Braddock. I think Storck might have tried for some amendment that those moved out to Hayfield get to return to South County. I don't know if it passed - in 2012 the current South County building will have projected 1892 in a 1700 capacity site.

With a separate middle school what is currently used as a secondary school [1700 + 800=2500] would have 508 EMPTY SEATS.

Nothing bordering it is overcrowded so what the heck do they plan to do with it?

Domino kids out of modulars with Robinson into LB , LB into SOCO?

Seeing the 508 plus the over 800 at Mount Vernon I am simply in shock.

There is an article about Tom Davis an his Lorton Legacy in the Connection.

Schools System Pursues Second Headquarters

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=313932&paper=68&cat=104

THE FCPS SYSTEM IS OUT OF CONTROL. I believe JACK DALE AND THE SB HAVE NO IDEA ON HOW TO MANAGE WITH A decrease in the school system’s capital budget.

Money for a new (CASTLE) building? How about reducing classroom size? How about renovations to schools that are 40 years old? How about more teachers?



Schools System Pursues Second Headquarters

Fairfax County Public Schools is still pursuing a deal to purchase a second central administration building in Merrifield despite a downturn in the county budget and a possible decrease in the school system’s capital budget.

School officials have pursued a "twin" to the school system’s first central administration building, called Gatehouse I, since 2005.

Fairfax County Public Schools owns a plot of land near the first building where it intended to build its second headquarters.

But the schools chief operating officer Dean Tistadt said it could be more fiscally prudent in the long run to buy an existing building occupied by the American Red Cross than to construct a new a headquarters. The Red Cross building faces and already shares a parking lot with Gatehouse I.

Tistadt admits he could be facing an uphill battle with the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, who is already squeezed tight for funding. He could not say how much the purchase could cost the county because of contract negotiations with the building’s owners.

Fairfax County Board of Supervisors chairman Gerry Connolly said he had not seen a proposal to purchase a second headquarters for the school system but that it might be tough for the county to make that type of purchase at this time.

"Given how difficult the budget situation is, there is going to be heavy burden on those advocating for that at this time. … It is going to be hard to justify an additional headquarters for the school system," said Connolly.

— Julia O’Donoghue

Why do so many of you say there is room at Lake Braddock? There isn't. Come spend a day with me and you'll see that we are full - hallways full, cafeteria full, everything full!

Not sure why I am posting this message anyway, all of you "experts" seem to have all the answers to everything... even if you don't have any of the facts.

Go Bruins!

Bruin Booster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do so many of you say there is room at Lake
> Braddock? There isn't. Come spend a day with me
> and you'll see that we are full - hallways full,
> cafeteria full, everything full!
>
BB - Most of us understand that LB is currently close to capacity; the issue is that the county projects that, in five years, enrollment at both the high school and middle school will decline from current levels by @ 600 students. So the issue is whether the School Board should push forward with plans to build a new middle school in South County that would be opened at that time or later, when other schools adjacent to South County such as Lee, Hayfield and Mount Vernon are also expected to have extra capacity.

I know that doesn't make LB seem any less crowded today (3800 students between the high school and middle school are a lot!) but that's why people keep raising the issue. Many of us feel there are older schools that need to be maintained or renovated first and that the planning process in recent years haasn't allocated resources fairly. We're not necessarily the experts with all the answers, but we're also not sure the School Board is asking the right questions.

Not So Obvious – that is true, Lake Braddock is at capacity now. Projections, made by the school board, are sometimes wrong. What happens when the school board sends students to Lake Braddock and they are over capacity in the future? I don’t think a middle school should be built, I think the school board should look at all the schools around South County and do a major boundary study/shift. Woodson, Robinson, Lake Braddock, West Springfield, South County, Hayfield, Mt. Vernon, W. Pot, Annandale, Edison, and any others in the area need to be fixed. Yes many parents would be upset, but it is the right thing to do. The schools could be better balanced and parents would feel better about the study.

What is truly ironic is that Connelly granted FCPS the $60 million for Gatehouse I but wanted FCPS to redoce the number of our kids in trailers. Now here we are 5 years later with even MORE trailers and talking about Gatehouse II.

What troubles me the most is that this school system sends a very bad message to the students when they are expected to attend schools in deplorable conditions while they lavish in their Taj Mahal.

Not So Obvious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BB - Most of us understand that LB is currently
> close to capacity; the issue is that the county
> projects that, in five years, enrollment at both
> the high school and middle school will decline
> from current levels by @ 600 students.

That statement is no longer true... even Tistadt and Dale have finally admitted that their projections for Lake Braddock to lose students is no longer unreliable. And the actual numbers for the last two years have shown INCREASES here, not decreases as projected.

It is now FCPS -- not the South County folks -- who say they can't do a boundary move from SOCO to LB.

LB is full, period, end of story.

I know some people are "bitter" over the SL situation and so they "cling" to their hatred of SOCO, but don't we at LB don't want to be used as pawns in your twisted revenge games.

no room at the LB inn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not So Obvious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BB - Most of us understand that LB is currently
> > close to capacity; the issue is that the county
> > projects that, in five years, enrollment at
> both
> > the high school and middle school will decline
> > from current levels by @ 600 students.
>
> That statement is no longer true... even Tistadt
> and Dale have finally admitted that their
> projections for Lake Braddock to lose students is
> no longer unreliable. And the actual numbers for
> the last two years have shown INCREASES here, not
> decreases as projected.
>
> It is now FCPS -- not the South County folks --
> who say they can't do a boundary move from SOCO to
> LB.
>
> LB is full, period, end of story.
>
> I know some people are "bitter" over the SL
> situation and so they "cling" to their hatred of
> SOCO, but don't we at LB don't want to be used as
> pawns in your twisted revenge games.

OK - clarification noted. I have no agenda to engage in a "twisted revenge game," particularly when Lake Braddock is involved (don't ask). On the other hand, we should all be concerned if plans are being drawn based on projections that are acknowledged in short order to be inaccurate.

And, the fact remains that multiple HSs in the southeastern part of the county are projected to have excess capacity (and, in some cases, significant excess capacity) in five years, unless all the projections have been similarly revised. Why is it a "twisted revenge game" to suggest the SB should take this into account, shortly after schools in the western part of the county were RD'd in part on the justification that 2000 students was an ideal size?

SOCO Middle school Nazis who keep saying Lake Braddock is full are liars.

Ask Dean Tistadt. As of last week the number was 300.

You really don't help your cause when you make false statements.

Not So Obvious Wrote:
> OK - clarification noted. I have no agenda to
> engage in a "twisted revenge game," particularly
> when Lake Braddock is involved (don't ask). On
> the other hand, we should all be concerned if
> plans are being drawn based on projections that
> are acknowledged in short order to be inaccurate.
>
>
> And, the fact remains that multiple HSs in the
> southeastern part of the county are projected to
> have excess capacity (and, in some cases,
> significant excess capacity) in five years, unless
> all the projections have been similarly revised.
> Why is it a "twisted revenge game" to suggest the
> SB should take this into account, shortly after
> schools in the western part of the county were
> RD'd in part on the justification that 2000
> students was an ideal size?

Not So Obvious:

I didn't meant to imply that your views were part of the "twisted revenge game"; I thought they were the kind of constructive dialogue I wish this forum had more of. But, please note the invective above from "UNnecessary middle school" including his distasteful Nazi reference. But let's not waste any time on that.

As to your point above, I agree that the school Board should take all relevant facts into account. From my perspective in LB, I am concerned that just as we have gotten our school into good shape, Tistadt is relentless in trying to stuff more kids in here because he sees kids as numbers to be manipulated for political purposes. He made a statement years ago that there would "never" be a need for a South County Middle School. And each time the facts contradict him, he comes up with a new way justify himself, and a lot kids may be hurt, including those in Lake Braddock.

And the one person who should be helping us -- Tessie Wilson -- seems as fanatical about trying to overcrowd LB as Stu did when forcing his RD scheme for SL et.al.

We should all stay focused on the purpose of schools - providing children with the best education; not increasing property values, not satisfying political viewpoints, not making sure that everyone "shares the pain" and most certainly not trying to justify a history of error at SC.

Let's continue to be fair, show respect and focus on the facts.

no room at the LB inn Wrote:
>
> And the one person who should be helping us --
> Tessie Wilson -- seems as fanatical about trying
> to overcrowd LB as Stu did when forcing his RD
> scheme for SL et.al.


You are so right, Tessie barely won re-election and now she is completely disregarding what her constituents want. Even our Lake Braddock PTA leaders are telling her not to overcrowd LB, yet she continues to oppose every attempt to resolve the SOCO situation before it comes back to bite us in the ass.

Get off your broom and listen to your constituents, Tessie: LAKE BRADDOCK IS FULL!

LB can take 300 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SOCO Middle school Nazis who keep saying Lake
> Braddock is full are liars.
>
> Ask Dean Tistadt. As of last week the number was
> 300.
>
> You really don't help your cause when you make
> false statements.

We don't have to ask Dean, he has already made it official SB policy that because of the unreliability of their prior projections that have proven false, they no longer support a boundary change. That's a fact that cannot be disputed.

Except, of course, by ignorant hate-mongers!

That's right, we are hate-mongers.

And we despise all you people in South County who have the temerity to think your children should have a middle school to attend.

We despise anyone who might succeed when we have failed.

We despise anyone who does not suffer when we suffer.

We despise anyone who disagrees with us and refuses to change their mind.

We despise anyone who focuses on facts rather than random opinions.

We despise anyone who actually goes to school meetings and gets involved in the process instead of just posting their rantings on the Internet.

We despise anyone who participates in our electoral system, rather than just stand on the sidelines and bitch about their powerlessness.

And we especially despise anyone who has the courage to run for public office, make hard decisions, and be held accountable for them, rather than just sit in front of their computers and post hate-filled accusations of corruption.

That's right, we despise you all.

(And your precious dog Toto too!)

The CIP issued in December 2007 states enrollment figures for LBHS and indicates an undercapacity number of 300.

What has changed in 4 months? Please cite an FCPS document that shows LBHS as "full".

"Full" does not mean we don't want any more kids.

Just the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The CIP issued in December 2007 states enrollment
> figures for LBHS and indicates an undercapacity
> number of 300.
>
> What has changed in 4 months? Please cite an FCPS
> document that shows LBHS as "full".
>
> "Full" does not mean we don't want any more kids.


Go to the Minutes from the April 10, 2008 SB meeting and read the following:

"recent enrollment projections for Lake Braddock Secondary School were shown to have increased and that would preclude including them in a future boundary study."

Facts is Facts Indeed.

Or do all you SOCO-haters still dispute this FACT!

Oh, ok, so Danny boy and Lizzie Bordon mention in the meeting that LBHS is full and that makes it so.

Remember back in 2005 when Dan kept including all these neighborhoods into SOCO, which caused the overcrowding in the first place. He kept saying, oh its only 50 kids, oh its only 70 kids...next thing we know we have 450 to many.

Nice job Dan.

I think I will wait on the full report being issued May 23rd. If Dan and Liz would stop holding a gun to Tistadt's head maybe he could do his job without all the political interference.

I need to put my boots on to read the crap that you write.

facts is facts indeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Go to the Minutes from the April 10, 2008 SB
> meeting and read the following:
>
> "recent enrollment projections for Lake Braddock
> Secondary School were shown to have increased and
> that would preclude including them in a future
> boundary study."
>
> Facts is Facts Indeed.
>
> Or do all you SOCO-haters still dispute this FACT!

Again - I'm not a SOCO hater nor would I propose to cram kids into Lake Braddoci or any other facility that the school doesn't have the ability to support. However, I ask the following:

1. The quoted comment in the 4/10 minutes appears to be just that: an unattributed comment that someone made at the meeting and which was summarized in the minutes. Who made the comment? Was it supported with facts? What information that was the basis for the projections in the December 2007 CIP is now believed to be incorrect?

2. Is SOCO middle school now a done deal and, if so, what is the point of the study to be delivered by 5/23/08 regarding different alternatives (see below)?

3. What would be the impact of building a new SC middle school be on the priorities identified in the December 2007 CIP? Does the new SC middle school now "leapfrog" or take priority over those other projects? If so, what purpose does the CIP serve?

"The motion to amend the substitute motion by adding the following language:
further direct the Superintendent to provide a written report to the School Board
by May 23, 2008, regarding all known concepts for addressing the overcrowding
of South County Secondary School; said report is to include (1) a conceptual
FAIRFAX COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD
Regular Meeting No. 17 5 April 10, 2008
description of each alternative, including a boundary adjustment, as can be best
determined; (2) the funding sources, as appropriate, that support each
alternative; and (3) an assessment of the relative viability and risks of each
alternative, in both the short term and the long term passed 7-4, with Mr.
Center, Mr. Moon, Mr. Niedzielski-Eichner, Mr. Raney, Mrs. Smith, Mrs. Strauss,
and Mrs. Wilson voting “aye,” and Mrs. Bradsher, Ms. Hone, Mrs. Kory, and Mr.
Storck voting “nay,” and with Mr. Gibson absent."

I hate Toto too...and SOCO...and SL PTSA,,,and the SB...and I hate "hate-monger" for trying to be sooooo clever. Doink


hate-monger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's right, we are hate-mongers.
>
> And we despise all you people in South County who
> have the temerity to think your children should
> have a middle school to attend.
>
> We despise anyone who might succeed when we have
> failed.
>
> We despise anyone who does not suffer when we
> suffer.
>
> We despise anyone who disagrees with us and
> refuses to change their mind.
>
> We despise anyone who focuses on facts rather than
> random opinions.
>
> We despise anyone who actually goes to school
> meetings and gets involved in the process instead
> of just posting their rantings on the Internet.
>
> We despise anyone who participates in our
> electoral system, rather than just stand on the
> sidelines and bitch about their powerlessness.
>
> And we especially despise anyone who has the
> courage to run for public office, make hard
> decisions, and be held accountable for them,
> rather than just sit in front of their computers
> and post hate-filled accusations of corruption.
>
> That's right, we despise you all.
>
> (And your precious dog Toto too!)

hate monger, we hate you and your cronies for what they stand for, BULL SHIT.



Free Dorothy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate Toto too...and SOCO...and SL PTSA,,,and the
> SB...and I hate "hate-monger" for trying to be
> sooooo clever. Doink
>
>
> hate-monger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's right, we are hate-mongers.
> >
> > And we despise all you people in South County
> who
> > have the temerity to think your children should
> > have a middle school to attend.
> >
> > We despise anyone who might succeed when we
> have
> > failed.
> >
> > We despise anyone who does not suffer when we
> > suffer.
> >
> > We despise anyone who disagrees with us and
> > refuses to change their mind.
> >
> > We despise anyone who focuses on facts rather
> than
> > random opinions.
> >
> > We despise anyone who actually goes to school
> > meetings and gets involved in the process
> instead
> > of just posting their rantings on the Internet.
> >
> > We despise anyone who participates in our
> > electoral system, rather than just stand on the
> > sidelines and bitch about their powerlessness.
> >
> > And we especially despise anyone who has the
> > courage to run for public office, make hard
> > decisions, and be held accountable for them,
> > rather than just sit in front of their
> computers
> > and post hate-filled accusations of corruption.
> >
> > That's right, we despise you all.
> >
> > (And your precious dog Toto too!)

Since the SOCO residences want their MS,then they need to take all students with Lorton as their home address.

Lorton address Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since the SOCO residences want their MS,then they
> need to take all students with Lorton as their
> home address.


Yeah, and all ESL, and all Spec Ed, and all children of illegal aliens, and all children of space aliens, and all former residents of South Dakota... no Wyoming!

I don't know, maybe it was Utah.

Now you have exposed yourself as a pure racist Utah, or maybe its SOCO. What is your problem? Is it that you only want white students in your new school?



Maybe it was Utah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lorton address Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Since the SOCO residences want their MS,then
> they
> > need to take all students with Lorton as their
> > home address.
>
>
> Yeah, and all ESL, and all Spec Ed, and all
> children of illegal aliens, and all children of
> space aliens, and all former residents of South
> Dakota... no Wyoming!
>
> I don't know, maybe it was Utah.

Racist live in SOCO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now you have exposed yourself as a pure racist
> Utah, or maybe its SOCO. What is your problem? Is
> it that you only want white students in your new
> school?
>

And you have exposed yourself as pure Utah, Racist. Or maybe just this whole idiotic string of messages came from Utah. Think about it.

Does anyone interested in schools or students really pay attention to this garbage?

I mean besides the trolls... for the entertainment value.

Please tell the folks why you are posting garbage on this site?


Garbage in, garbage out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Racist live in SOCO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Now you have exposed yourself as a pure racist
> > Utah, or maybe its SOCO. What is your problem?
> Is
> > it that you only want white students in your
> new
> > school?
> >
>
> And you have exposed yourself as pure Utah,
> Racist. Or maybe just this whole idiotic string
> of messages came from Utah. Think about it.
>
> Does anyone interested in schools or students
> really pay attention to this garbage?
>
> I mean besides the trolls... for the entertainment
> value.

There is no need for this school because there are empty seat at other schools and FCPS does not have the millions of dollars needed to build it.

Another bond? Another loan that has to be payed off over the next twenty years?

Everyone who keeps saying you can solve the South County problems by sending them to Lake Braddock, please read the following excerpt from Dr. Jack Dale's memo to School Board Members sent at the beginning of April.

THERE IS NO ROOM AT LAKE BRADDOCK! Even Facilities staff, including Tistadt, have now admitted their "projections" of open seats is NOT proving true.

When will the people in the "underground" admit this fact and move on.

Leave Lake Braddock alone!

------------

FALL ENROLLMENT PROJECTIONS – IMPLICATIONS FOR BOUNDARY STUDY

The Department of Facilities and Transportation Services has completed its spring updates of the student enrollment projections for the 2008 – 2009 school year. As expected, we are now projecting another increase. Based upon increases that have been experienced throughout the current school year and continuation of the underlying reasons for the increase, the fall 2008 projection now shows an increase of approximately 1,485 students over current February membership for General Education and GT students and an increase of 1,160 students in special programs (FECEP, Special Education, Preschool Resource, Court Alternative, etc.).

While the growth is occurring at all school levels and in various parts of the county, it is particularly noteworthy that as compared to prior projections, we are now showing an increase of nearly 60 high school students at Lake Braddock and over 25 high school students at South County. While the increase at Lake Braddock is not great, our prior projections were for decreased enrollments at that school and these projections were the basis for prior recommendations that Lake Braddock could accommodate new students from South County as a part of a boundary change.


Discussions with the principal of South County indicate that enrollment at that school needs to be reduced by 450 – 500 students to allow that school to return to a normal 7 period day. With the recent and projected growth at Lake Braddock, there is decreasing confidence that Lake Braddock will have sufficient capacity to relieve overcrowding at South County. This means that now we cannot recommend a boundary change between SCSS and LBSS to resolve overcrowding at SCSS.

-------------------

What the memo means is that all 450 kids can't go to LBHS. I don't see why that would have been the best choice anyways. Send some to Hayfield and some to MT Vernon. Why is this so damn hard for people to understand??

Lorton Valley people were jerked around. They were pulled from Hayfield, then sent to SOCO, then sent back to Hayfield. This is all STORCK's fault. He screwed up SOCO by letting too many kids in. He needs to fix it.

He is not going to cost us $50 million because of his incompetence.

60 students so now LBHS is full Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the memo means is that all 450 kids can't go
> to LBHS. I don't see why that would have been the
> best choice anyways. Send some to Hayfield and
> some to MT Vernon. Why is this so damn hard for
> people to understand??
>
> Lorton Valley people were jerked around. They
> were pulled from Hayfield, then sent to SOCO, then
> sent back to Hayfield. This is all STORCK's
> fault. He screwed up SOCO by letting too many
> kids in. He needs to fix it.
>
> He is not going to cost us $50 million because of
> his incompetence.


Yeah, SCREW South County!

When those 15,000 people moved in over the past 5 five years, they should have known this would happen.

They should known that that just because land was specifically set asisde for a high school AND a middle school as part of the federal land swap...

And just because the County, FCPS, and the SB had publicly stated their plans to build a high school AND a middle school...

And just because the School Board clearly stated that a high school would be built first to act as a temporary secondary school, with the middle school to be built once they had all moved in...

And just becuase Fairfax County no longer builds secondary schools...

And just because Fairfax County now has a policy against building ANY school larger than 2,000 students...

And just because the school is now packed, the parking lot full of trailers and an auxilliary gym, and the day extended by a strange split-bell schedule...

REALLY, they should have known that FCPS, the SB, and the rest of the County wouldn't hesitate to SCREW them out of their middle school and keep them packed in an ever enlarging high school acting as a secondary school...

All to try and avoid spending the money needed to provide the only fiscally responsible long term solution.

It's not "fiscal restraint" that is needed, it is fiscal responsbility. We need to solve this problem for the long term, not just look for quick fixes that end up costing taxpayers more in the future and hurting kids right now.

Fiscal Responsibility Needed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> It's not "fiscal restraint" that is needed, it is
> fiscal responsbility. We need to solve this
> problem for the long term, not just look for quick
> fixes that end up costing taxpayers more in the
> future and hurting kids right now.


Fiscal Responsibility:

There is little use trying to make rational arguments here. The opposition to South County Middle School is one part of larger ongoing efforts to oppose all "unnecessary" education spending, whether it is for building schools, repairing schools, purchasing equipment, or raising salaries so that Fairfax can attract the highest quality teachers, this crowd is always on the other side. They never vote for school bond referendums and they won't be voting for any School Board member who actually supports education.

Let these people (or person) rant and rave. Thankfully, the vast majority of Fairfax residents don't agree with them. No use trying to convince them of the merits of your arguments; their bottom line is dollars and cents, not students and teachers.

There is a very easy solution to this problem, if Lake Braddock is full send the South County students to Hayfield and Mt. Vernon. Both schools have been renovated and have more seats than Lake Braddock. Do a boundary study on that area, I bet some Hayfield students could shift to Mt. Vernon and Hayfield would have more room for South County students. The money the school board plans to use for the middle school could go to schools that really need to be renovated. So simple.

Education Advocate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fiscal Responsibility Needed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > It's not "fiscal restraint" that is needed, it
> is
> > fiscal responsbility. We need to solve this
> > problem for the long term, not just look for
> quick
> > fixes that end up costing taxpayers more in the
> > future and hurting kids right now.
>
>
> Fiscal Responsibility:
>
> There is little use trying to make rational
> arguments here. The opposition to South County
> Middle School is one part of larger ongoing
> efforts to oppose all "unnecessary" education
> spending, whether it is for building schools,
> repairing schools, purchasing equipment, or
> raising salaries so that Fairfax can attract the
> highest quality teachers, this crowd is always on
> the other side. They never vote for school bond
> referendums and they won't be voting for any
> School Board member who actually supports
> education.
>
> Let these people (or person) rant and rave.
> Thankfully, the vast majority of Fairfax residents
> don't agree with them. No use trying to convince
> them of the merits of your arguments; their bottom
> line is dollars and cents, not students and
> teachers.


You are incorrect in your statements. I oppose the South County Middle School yet support increasing teacher compensation, lowering class sizes, and facility renovation.

Wake the hell up people-the well is dry!

We borrow $300 million every 2 years and still can't keep up with the demands of our crumbling schools.

The current CIP is still underfunded by nearly $400 million.

I have nothing against these people from SOCO-I am opposed to wasteful spending and I am opposed to people cutting in line.

Let's take care of these schools that have not been renovated for 40 years. Let's get the thousands of kids out of the mold infested trailers-all 800 of them.

Put the money where the need is the greatest not where the people shout the loudest or who grease the SB members pockets (Dan-that is you).

No new middle school, no new wing, RD NOW AND SAVE THE MONEY.



WE SHOT OUR WAD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wake the hell up people-the well is dry!
>
> We borrow $300 million every 2 years and still
> can't keep up with the demands of our crumbling
> schools.
>
> The current CIP is still underfunded by nearly
> $400 million.
>
> I have nothing against these people from SOCO-I am
> opposed to wasteful spending and I am opposed to
> people cutting in line.
>
> Let's take care of these schools that have not
> been renovated for 40 years. Let's get the
> thousands of kids out of the mold infested
> trailers-all 800 of them.
>
> Put the money where the need is the greatest not
> where the people shout the loudest or who grease
> the SB members pockets (Dan-that is you).

I have not heard a coherent intelligent explanantion from these middle school supporters as to why they need a new school right away.

The money set aside for BRAC planning has been "shifted" to the planning of the school. I guess that means BRAC is not a huge threat otherwise why would they spend the money on something else?

This selling of land that is owned by the park authority is sketchy. I think they oppose the swap that has been proposed. They don't want to give up a good piece of land for a crappy one.

I am also confused as to why a developer is willing to aquire the land and build. We are in such a pickle with the unsold homes and foreclosures. It seems like an odd time to buy land to build unless of course it is at a fire sale price?

There are so many serious quesions that have gone unanswered by the SB members who are pushing for this school. I am a little shocked at the lack of fiscal constraint given the tough times we are in.

Education Advocate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fiscal Responsibility Needed Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > It's not "fiscal restraint" that is needed, it
> is
> > fiscal responsbility. We need to solve this
> > problem for the long term, not just look for
> quick
> > fixes that end up costing taxpayers more in the
> > future and hurting kids right now.
>
>
> Fiscal Responsibility:
>
> There is little use trying to make rational
> arguments here. The opposition to South County
> Middle School is one part of larger ongoing
> efforts to oppose all "unnecessary" education
> spending, whether it is for building schools,
> repairing schools, purchasing equipment, or
> raising salaries so that Fairfax can attract the
> highest quality teachers, this crowd is always on
> the other side. They never vote for school bond
> referendums and they won't be voting for any
> School Board member who actually supports
> education.
>
> Let these people (or person) rant and rave.
> Thankfully, the vast majority of Fairfax residents
> don't agree with them. No use trying to convince
> them of the merits of your arguments; their bottom
> line is dollars and cents, not students and
> teachers.


Or you could shift some people from Lake Braddock to Robinson to make room for South County Students.

Hayfield is growing in numbers and will be full within a few years. The projections for this year was also low for Hayfield so no room here either.

SOCO questions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have not heard a coherent intelligent
> explanantion from these middle school supporters
> as to why they need a new school right away.
>
> The money set aside for BRAC planning has been
> "shifted" to the planning of the school. I guess
> that means BRAC is not a huge threat otherwise why
> would they spend the money on something else?
>
> This selling of land that is owned by the park
> authority is sketchy. I think they oppose the
> swap that has been proposed. They don't want to
> give up a good piece of land for a crappy one.
>
> I am also confused as to why a developer is
> willing to aquire the land and build. We are in
> such a pickle with the unsold homes and
> foreclosures. It seems like an odd time to buy
> land to build unless of course it is at a fire
> sale price?
>
> There are so many serious quesions that have gone
> unanswered by the SB members who are pushing for
> this school. I am a little shocked at the lack of
> fiscal constraint given the tough times we are in.


I have to say that I agree with one point you make, you are confused! Not sure how to straighten out this bundle of misdirected random questions. My suggestion, try reading some of the thoughtful posts made by supporters of South County Middle School on this thread -- but only if you are really interested in learning and don't already have a preconceived view that "SOCOers" are evil.

Bottom line: South County HIGH School was built as a HIGH SCHOOL and it was only to be used temporarily as a "Secondary School" until population filled in as planned. Well, folks moved in there more rapidly than planned (remember, the bubble boom occurred before the bubble burst) and the "temporary Secondary School" is now strained to the max, and so the folks in South County naturally want their pyramid completed with a middle school to go along with the high school.

Now you can get into heated arguments about the numbers game for as long as you like -- students, capacity, dollars -- but everyone has their own version.

One thing folks don't seem to understand is that South County doesn't want a "new" middle school; that sounds like they have an "old" one. They just want a middle school to go with their high school - and not a permanent "temporary" secondary school. Doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.

I like the idea of redistricting some of the Fairfax Station kids who are currently in South County to Lake Braddock. I just looked at the boundary maps and there are plenty of LB/Fairfax Station kids whose commute to Lake Braddock is much longer than any commute the Silverbrook or Newington Forest kids would have to Lake Braddock

Not sure how there can be any confusion about students, capacity or dollars.

We know how many students are enrolled in neighboring schools. We know we have room in neighborings scools. Lastly, we know that we are in a SEVERE budget crunch.

If your best argument is the fact that you were promised this school and that the sign outside says high school and not middle school, then that is pretty weak.

The middle school was to be built in 2017. I will concede then, if we still need it then, that you can have your school in 9 years.

The begging really does not become you.

To dazed and confused.

What is wrong with you? Is SOCO the only ones with needs in Fairfax county? I think not. You need to be RD like others have Fairfax county in order to deal with under capacity and over capacity issues. Wait your turn like others have and will.
2017 is when you are scheduled, not before.

Please no tears.

NO MIDDLE SCHOOL FOR SOCO UNTIL 2017 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To dazed and confused.
>
> What is wrong with you? Is SOCO the only ones with
> needs in Fairfax county? I think not. You need to
> be RD like others have Fairfax county in order to
> deal with under capacity and over capacity issues.
> Wait your turn like others have and will.
> 2017 is when you are scheduled, not before.
>
> Please no tears.

Agreed. FYI - Lake Braddock wasn't built overnight when the population in that part of the county started to boom in the 1970s. There wasn't enough room at Robinson to absorb all the students either, so the middle schoolers were sent to other junior highs elsewhere with capacity, such as Holmes and Poe. The bus rides were by no means short, but the kids got an education, the school was built when planned, and the integrity of the planning process was preserved. Put SOCO Middle in the next CIP for 2017.

you are the one confused Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure how there can be any confusion about
> students, capacity or dollars.
>
> We know how many students are enrolled in
> neighboring schools. We know we have room in
> neighborings scools. Lastly, we know that we are
> in a SEVERE budget crunch.
>
> If your best argument is the fact that you were
> promised this school and that the sign outside
> says high school and not middle school, then that
> is pretty weak.
>
> The middle school was to be built in 2017. I will
> concede then, if we still need it then, that you
> can have your school in 9 years.
>
> The begging really does not become you.



OK, let's end the confusion over numbers and have serious discussion. I assume you are not simply going to point to hhe some stale and one-dimensional data contained in the last CIP and expect anyone to believe that is all there is. So, here's what I suggest.

Please post the current enrollment numbers from the April 2008 update for all the schools you believe are relevant, as well as the new five year projections that take this update into account. Would appreciate an analysis of the trends at feeder elementary schools to make this complete. Also, would like to know how you account Dr. Dale's recent memo stating that FCPS no longer recommends a boundary study to move students from South County to Lake Braddock.

Next, please post the capacities for each school, including an analysis of the difference between absolute "seats" and core capacities. Some explanation of how cafeterias, gyms and other non-classroom limitations affect the true capacity would be appreciated. Also, your analysis of how this may be changed due to the very recent capacity studies about to be considered by the School Board concerning issues such as the effect of electives on capacity calculations.

Finally, please post the cost you project for building South County Middle School in 2017, as well as cost estimates for building sooner than 2017, based upon current market and projected future conditions for both the consturction industry and the financial markets. Would appreciate you including a financial analysis of the short and long term costs of using some of the alternative and creative financing mechanisms that have been proposed, including the County's offer of $10 million to build South County Middle School.

I think this will be a good start for a serious discussion of a complicated matter. Hopefully, you and others are willing to do that rather than just name call the folks in South County.

serious discussion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> OK, let's end the confusion over numbers and have
> serious discussion. I assume you are not simply
> going to point to hhe some stale and
> one-dimensional data contained in the last CIP and
> expect anyone to believe that is all there is.
> So, here's what I suggest.
>
> Please post the current enrollment numbers from
> the April 2008 update for all the schools you
> believe are relevant, as well as the new five year
> projections that take this update into account.
> Would appreciate an analysis of the trends at
> feeder elementary schools to make this complete.
> Also, would like to know how you account Dr.
> Dale's recent memo stating that FCPS no longer
> recommends a boundary study to move students from
> South County to Lake Braddock.
>
> Next, please post the capacities for each school,
> including an analysis of the difference between
> absolute "seats" and core capacities. Some
> explanation of how cafeterias, gyms and other
> non-classroom limitations affect the true capacity
> would be appreciated. Also, your analysis of how
> this may be changed due to the very recent
> capacity studies about to be considered by the
> School Board concerning issues such as the effect
> of electives on capacity calculations.
>
> Finally, please post the cost you project for
> building South County Middle School in 2017, as
> well as cost estimates for building sooner than
> 2017, based upon current market and projected
> future conditions for both the consturction
> industry and the financial markets. Would
> appreciate you including a financial analysis of
> the short and long term costs of using some of
> the alternative and creative financing mechanisms
> that have been proposed, including the County's
> offer of $10 million to build South County Middle
> School.
>
> I think this will be a good start for a serious
> discussion of a complicated matter. Hopefully,
> you and others are willing to do that rather than
> just name call the folks in South County.

These are all reasonable and interesting analyses to assemble - however, the burden clearly should be on the School Board and the proponents of the middle school to prepare and defend them, not those who are asking for a delay or moratorium on a SOCO middle school until such evidence is gathered. Anything else suggests that the proponents of the SOCO school don't give a rat's ass about anyone else's needs or priorities - a conclusion that others posting have already reached but which I would prefer to believe is not the case.

One More Voice Wrote:
>
> These are all reasonable and interesting analyses
> to assemble - however, the burden clearly should
> be on the School Board and the proponents of the
> middle school to prepare and defend them, not
> those who are asking for a delay or moratorium on
> a SOCO middle school until such evidence is
> gathered. Anything else suggests that the
> proponents of the SOCO school don't give a rat's
> ass about anyone else's needs or priorities - a
> conclusion that others posting have already
> reached but which I would prefer to believe is not
> the case.


I completely agree. And it is a burden that must be met, as you correctly point out, by the proponents. And that is what the "SOCOers" have been working to demonstrate for several years. I think that burden has been met -- many of the facts and arguments have even been advanced here -- however, it is hard to have such a serious discussion here in the cyber wild west.

But these are the arguments that proponents on and off the School Board have been making and will continue to make to anyone willing to sit down and have a serious discussion about this. Not everyone may agree, but I would hope that they would first get all the facts -- not just read rantings on this or any anonymous blog -- before making up their minds. There should and will be a full School Board debate on this before any final decision is made.

I would also add that educating children takes more than just making the "numbers" work out, so I would hope you will agree that non-numerical arguments should also be part of such a serious discussion.

Dean Tistadt said that LBHS has 300 empty seats 10 days ago. I have the email. Nobody knows better than him.

If Dale is proposing no boundary study it is because either (1) Storck and Bradsher are insisting that they sit on it, or (2) that he is just as incompetent as he appears (examples such as the NCLB stand off and the morality report).

There are serious doubts about the integrity of the numbers being thrown about. That is more of a reason to do a boundary study.

MT VERNON is struggling. They need the same support and resources that was such a number one priority of the SB with South Lakes. Same scenario. It makes perfect sense to send SOCO kids there to help that school.

I love all the "hard work" that this SOCO Middle School group has done. Give me a royal break. You stole the BRAC money. You whined to the BOS for money for $10 million even though there is no money to be thrown around. You are trying to unload a piece of public land to a developer. Wow-what ingenuity. You guys really made a lot of money on your own. It's not like you had a bake sale or a car wash.

There is no immediate need for this school.

Read the WSJ article about how the ceiling tiles are falling on the kids at our nation's number one high school-TJ. Tell those kids you deserve the money more than they do. Tell the families at Edison and West Springfield how much more deserving you all are.

The selfishness and arrogance coming from you is astounding.

So the people of SOCO want a reason why they should not get a middle school?

How about a school budget that is short 55 million.

How about teachers not getting their three percent cost of living pay raise.

Save 60 million and give the teachers their pay raise

FYI


Teachers Criticize Fairfax Budget
School Funding At Issue as Plan Wins Approval

By Amy Gardner
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 29, 2008; B01



In affluent Fairfax County, it's never enough. That was the lesson yesterday for the county Board of Supervisors, which approved its annual budget amid criticism -- not for raising taxes but for inadequately funding the public schools.

Supervisors gave final approval yesterday to a $3.1 billion spending plan that raises the property tax by three pennies, to 92 cents per $100 of assessed value. Most of the new money, about $45 million, will go to the public schools. But it was less than the School Board had asked for -- and that drew a rebuke from teachers, who sent out a sharply worded postcard over the weekend in anticipation of the supervisors' vote.

The card, mailed to the Fairfax Education Association's 6,500 members, said supervisors have placed "your promised 3 percent raise in jeopardy." The card was referring to the likelihood that the School Board will trim teachers' cost-of-living increases to 2 percent to balance the school budget in the wake of the county's action.

Supervisors protested the criticism as they prepared to vote on the county budget yesterday. They noted not only that every two of the three pennies in new tax revenue will go to the school system, but also that it is the School Board's job, and not theirs, to decide how to spend the money.

"To suggest that this board has placed in jeopardy the compensation of teachers is disingenuous and unfair," said Gerald E. Connolly (D), chairman of the county board. "It's disheartening, because we're doing everything we can in a deteriorating revenue situation."

Leonard Bumbaca, president of the Fairfax Education Association, said the card was not intended to criticize supervisors but to point out where the budget fell short.

"They have done a lot," Bumbaca said. "But it doesn't change the situation that they didn't go all the way."

Supervisor Sharon S. Bulova (D-Braddock), chairman of the board's budget committee, said school supporters have always wanted more than the county has given them. She said it's a function of living in an affluent county with a vocal community of parents and teachers, many of whom would rather pay higher taxes than jeopardize school class size, teacher pay and other education programs.

Bulova recalled a year when supervisors gave the schools all the money they asked for, and still the School Board asked for more. "No matter what we give them, it's never enough," she said with a smile.

School Board member Phillip A. Niedzielski-Eichner (Providence) said the teachers' group is right to assume that cost-of-living increases could be reduced to 2 percent to balance the school budget. Eligible teachers will still receive step increases, which average 2.7 percent, he said.

"Employee compensation makes up 87 percent of our budget," he said. "So to realize a significant reduction in cost, we have to reduce people." Other likely consequences, he added, include increasing class size, delaying the county's expansion of full-day kindergarten to all elementary schools and postponing expansion of elementary foreign-language instruction.

Niedzielski-Eichner noted that the School Board reduced its budget proposal by $33 million before making its spending request to the county board. He also noted that projected enrollment increases and rising fuel costs eat up much of the new money that supervisors are providing. It's also critical, he said, that Fairfax keep its teacher salaries competitive with those in neighboring school districts to be able to attract the best applicants.

The School Board will hold a budget hearing in mid-May. It is scheduled to approve a final school budget at the end of May.

Supervisors struggled this year with their toughest budget cycle since the mid-1990s. Declining property assessments pinched projections of property tax receipts, federal interest-rate cuts squeezed county investment income, and inflation in gasoline prices pushed operations costs upward.

Supervisors rejected several cuts proposed earlier in the spring by County Executive Anthony H. Griffin, including reductions in performance-based pay raises for county employees and a market-rate pay adjustment for public-safety officers.

They also reduced from 12 cents to 11 cents Griffin's proposal to impose a property tax surcharge on commercial parcels, citing the softening of the commercial real estate market. The surcharge, authorized by the General Assembly last year as part of landmark transportation legislation, is dedicated to road and transit improvements.

Finally, the supervisors found $1 million to create a third "strike team" to police code violations in older neighborhoods, where crowding and property neglect have contributed to blight and a decline in property values.

What supervisors did not do is tap into the county's reserve fund -- because of what they fear could be an even more difficult budget season next year.

"We have to make the prudent decisions," said Supervisor Penelope A. Gross (D-Mason). "They're hard. We have to look at the next year rather than the one that's happening right now. It's not just what's in our pocket right now. It's what might not be there the next time we look."

serious it is Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dean Tistadt said that LBHS has 300 empty seats 10
> days ago. I have the email. Nobody knows better
> than him.

Prove it, let's see the email.

Not just some scrap, let's see the entire email.

Well. That's what I thought, pure BS!

Just like everything else you write here, pure BS!

Fill all empty seats at LB,Hayfield,Mount Vernon,Lee and other schools before any new schools are built.

RD the entire county now.

No more new schools Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fill all empty seats at LB,Hayfield,Mount
> Vernon,Lee and other schools before any new
> schools are built.
>
> RD the entire county now.


Part of the county was RD--the West County to certain areas, not the entire West County. Now it's South County turn along with MT Vernon, Lee, etc.

Tistadt was asked by the School Board for a report on SOCO projections and neighboring schools. Has anyone seen it?

Let's see what the facilities folks are saying rather than the political BS being spewed by Bradsher and Storck.

Wasn't there a work session on April 24th about this?

With over 800 empty seats at Mount Vernon we need to ship 500 SOCO students there.

All you would need is a few buses and the over capacity issues at SOCO would be fixed for the next ten years.



Facilities Department Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tistadt was asked by the School Board for a report
> on SOCO projections and neighboring schools. Has
> anyone seen it?
>
> Let's see what the facilities folks are saying
> rather than the political BS being spewed by
> Bradsher and Storck.
>
> Wasn't there a work session on April 24th about
> this?

Ok, let me get this straight. Because of all the budget cuts, the teachers will receive a 2% pay raise rather than 3%; They are killing the expansion of all day kindergarten, they are killing FLES even though one of the main goals is that each kid be fluent in 2 languages; there is a hiring freeze on instructional assistants; introduction of bus depots for GT centers; no new textbooks; cutting back on summer school programs.

Wow!! You know what? I have been wrong all along and I owe a HUGE apology to the SOCO crew and Dan and Lizzie, we have plenty of money to throw around.

By God, build that new school NOW!! Let's break ground tomorrow!!

Show me The Money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, let me get this straight. Because of all the
> budget cuts, the teachers will receive a 2% pay
> raise rather than 3%; They are killing the
> expansion of all day kindergarten, they are
> killing FLES even though one of the main goals is
> that each kid be fluent in 2 languages; there is a
> hiring freeze on instructional assistants;
> introduction of bus depots for GT centers; no new
> textbooks; cutting back on summer school
> programs.
>
> Wow!! You know what? I have been wrong all along
> and I owe a HUGE apology to the SOCO crew and Dan
> and Lizzie, we have plenty of money to throw
> around.
>
> By God, build that new school NOW!! Let's break
> ground tomorrow!!


Apology Accepted.

Now if you can get the rest of these ignorant, arrogant, self-righteous, SOCOphobes to give up on their bitter, uninformed and illogical rantings, we can all move on to better use of our time.

NO WAY SOCO WHACKO, as before you and your fellow whackos are the true ass holes.

Mount Vernon is for you.


Apology Accepted Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Show me The Money Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ok, let me get this straight. Because of all
> the
> > budget cuts, the teachers will receive a 2% pay
> > raise rather than 3%; They are killing the
> > expansion of all day kindergarten, they are
> > killing FLES even though one of the main goals
> is
> > that each kid be fluent in 2 languages; there is
> a
> > hiring freeze on instructional assistants;
> > introduction of bus depots for GT centers; no
> new
> > textbooks; cutting back on summer school
> > programs.
> >
> > Wow!! You know what? I have been wrong all
> along
> > and I owe a HUGE apology to the SOCO crew and
> Dan
> > and Lizzie, we have plenty of money to throw
> > around.
> >
> > By God, build that new school NOW!! Let's break
> > ground tomorrow!!
>

During the March 10th work session for the Facilities Committee, it was recommended that they FINALLY use competent people for projections and estimates on the needeed renovations for our 184 schools. We apparently will be hiring a consultant.

Let's examine the condition of our existing schools:

The study scope identified schools that were not already listed in the 2000 queue and those schools not having been built of renovated since 1991. That would be 17 years ago- can you spell WEAR AND TEAR???

How many schools is that exactly do you ask?

Well, we have 6 high schools, 2 middle schools and 20 elementary schools. If we add those numbers to the existing 2000 queue that brings the total number of schools having no renovations for the last 17 years to 55.

Holy Toledo! We need to renovate 55 schools at a cost of a gazillion dollars-money of course that we don't have (we have to borrow it from ourselves) and yet we are talking about this URGENT matter of adding on to a school that is 3 years old. Or worse, building a school that we don't need.

HAVE YOU ALL LOST YOUR MINDS???? The fact that this discussion is even taking place is an insult to our intelligence.

Show Bradsher and Storck the door, please.

Does the entire SB only do things for the people of SOCO.

New HS, new ES and now a new MS when other schools are falling apart.

Why do they take care of 5,000 students and do nothing for the other 165,000 students in the county.




state of the union Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> During the March 10th work session for the
> Facilities Committee, it was recommended that they
> FINALLY use competent people for projections and
> estimates on the needeed renovations for our 184
> schools. We apparently will be hiring a
> consultant.
>
> Let's examine the condition of our existing
> schools:
>
> The study scope identified schools that were not
> already listed in the 2000 queue and those schools
> not having been built of renovated since 1991.
> That would be 17 years ago- can you spell WEAR AND
> TEAR???
>
> How many schools is that exactly do you ask?
>
> Well, we have 6 high schools, 2 middle schools and
> 20 elementary schools. If we add those numbers to
> the existing 2000 queue that brings the total
> number of schools having no renovations for the
> last 17 years to 55.
>
> Holy Toledo! We need to renovate 55 schools at a
> cost of a gazillion dollars-money of course that
> we don't have (we have to borrow it from
> ourselves) and yet we are talking about this
> URGENT matter of adding on to a school that is 3
> years old. Or worse, building a school that we
> don't need.
>
> HAVE YOU ALL LOST YOUR MINDS???? The fact that
> this discussion is even taking place is an insult
> to our intelligence.
>
> Show Bradsher and Storck the door, please.

Schools fall apart Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does the entire SB only do things for the people
> of SOCO.
>
> New HS, new ES and now a new MS when other schools
> are falling apart.
>
> Why do they take care of 5,000 students and do
> nothing for the other 165,000 students in the
> county.

You make it sound like these "new" schools being built to replace "old" schools. That's just not what is happeninng. A quick history lesson.

The Lorton prison was closed 2001. 2,000 acres of federal land were transferred to Fairfax County. As part of that transfer, 120 acres were set aside to build an ES, MS, and HS. Also, "new" developments with 4,000 homes were planned and then built. 15,000 - 20,000 "new" people moved into this new Fairfax County community, with thousands of "new" students. Fairfax County planned for this "new" community, including planning for "new" retail, "new" roads, "new" sewer lines, "new" bus routes and "new" schools. This what you do when you plan a "new"community. What's so strange about this process?

If you disagree with the County's decision to take the federal land and allow thousands of new homes to be built on and around that land, that is certainly a reasonable position -- but that already happened; you can't reverse it.

But it's not reasonable to have planned a "new" community, built the homes and then change your mind about building "new" schools there. Just like it wouldn't be reasonable not to build "new" roads there, even though roads all over the County are "falling apart."