Even PTA board people can have a say. Thank you for your input stayingput. But people can have active boards at Poplar Tree too. It will be win win. Your argument doesnt hold.

Not sure what yurright what part of my arguement you don't agree with

1) That some people on this board have some serious anger issues and need to control their hatred and language

2) The board has been wasteful with money that should be going to classroom resources and our teachers raises

3)That employees responsible for the data have done a less than stellar job and their superiors do not seem to see this as a concern

4) That the board is spending a large amount of time coming up with a major plan only to implement it in a timeframe that does not take into consideration staffing and school space issues or the families and their various needs for planning (child care, preschool, various other activities) and perhaps should create a plan and then implement in the following school year not the up and coming one.

5) That even if someone does not agree with me where my neighborhood go that they should be an active participant in it.

I think the only comment I made about Poplar Tree was that it was a good school and they had been told when our neighborhood was built we would not be going there because of requirements for the autism center and spacial concerns. I know many parents their who are not looking forward to to having our large neighborhood come in and who are upset that to take us would require some of them to move out.

I would prefer to stay where I am because my child and my family have built a strong relationship with where we are. I am sure if you had such a relationship with your school you would be reluctant to leave or the impact of having your child be the "new kid" and getting to know the the staff and teachers especially if your child has special needs. For me, I would prefer to stay where I know my child's needs are met (not saying they can not be met elsewhere)- I know everyone who interacts with my child is aware of the needs and how to deal with them. Is it impossible to start again - no, but the stress and hardwork that was put in to create a positive team relationship took years to develop and to start from scratch is incredibily scary and frustrating.

The schools succeed when parents build strong bonds with a school it is not that one has better bonds than other it is that families build a relationship with their school and to start that process again while not impossible is hard - and the school board does not seem to care about the personal impacts this has and need to consider that when they play dominoes with students. They ask a lot from us, but just always seem to aks for more and not give anything back (like consideration of the family in this study).

My point is that when dealing with people their are more than numbers involved.

My question to you is - is your child slated to moved only because someone else is slated to move into your spot and by your move are you bumping students to another school?

This is the case for us and pretty boundaries just doesn't seem like enough of a reason to create such discourse in my mind - whether that opinion is right - I don't know but it is my voice and I have shared it with the board and welcome a healthy and positive debate on the issue, preferably free from the finger pointing and nastiness. And whether people believe me or not I welcome those in my community who would prefer to move to share their voice. I am more frustrated by those who complain and do not take action.

We are slated to move to Poplar Tree from GBW with 2 options. We have a relationship with the school there and know a lot of the people there. It will not take long to get to know the new school. There are a lot of people within arms distance of my house and also in my HOA who go to Poplar Tree and it is about time they make the change. I do not propose we wait until our kids all graduate and wait for someone else to finally fix the boundaries.

If you have a survey go to parents on PTA who are proposed to move, then you will know true decision. Ask About the proposed move, are you in favor? a) No b) Yes, c) Dont Care/Either Way

Then the PTA board should present that to the board. Board members represent those they are appointed by.

surveysolveit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you have a survey go to parents on PTA who are
> proposed to move, then you will know true
> decision. Ask About the proposed move, are you in
> favor? a) No b) Yes, c) Dont Care/Either Way
>
> Then the PTA board should present that to the
> board. Board members represent those they are
> appointed by.


In an ideal world, the parents would have a say about where our children are sent, and our "representatives" would represent us.

Unfortunately, the majority of the current SB is not interested in what the parents want. They are incredibly arrogant and Stu Gibson even stated to the Clifton parents, "I think I know what's best for the children".

If you want your child to stay in their current school, good luck! I mean that sincerely. I wish you all the luck in the world because you will need it.

If you want your child to move to a different school, good for you. I wish you all the best.

But really - you're all missing the bigger picture here:

THE SCHOOL BOARD IS WASTING PRECIOUS TAXPAYER MONEY AND TIME TO IMPLEMENT THESE CHANGES THAT DON'T SOLVE THE OVERCROWDING.

We DESPERATELY need a real solution to the overcrowding along the Rt. 50/29 corridor. ALL of the options put forth to date from the SB are mere band-aids, and we're going to be dealing with this again in a very short time.

This isn't about your child alone, this is about the THOUSANDS of kids that will be moved for no good reason.

Instead of building a new school in South County that will have 400 empty seats when it opens, where is the new school to solve the more dire overcrowding that exists NOW in the SW Region?

Yurright - I agree Poplar Tree is next to our neighborhood, and as I said it is a good school, for me I have individual concerns that from what I have heard Poplar Tree is not as good at handling so for me this move is not a good thing, but if it happens I will back it and support our new school. Also the bigger concern for me is the timeframe and the collassal waste of money this whole study has costs. Think we could probably fund a new school on all the time involved in this new study.

This whole fiasco has been a waste of OUR taxpayer money. It has going to hurt a lot of kids. Everyone wants to know where all the kids our going in September. The folks in Clifton are not the only ones with questions. This hurts ALL of Fairfax and will for many years. Too bad not enough people care.

When do they do PTA elections? We should make sure some of the PTA board from GBW that moves gets to be considered. There should also be an open house so we all feel comfortable and get to know the neighbors we never knew. Time to move forward. Time was wasted.

Since my kids are being made to move I will NOT join the new PTA. I will not buy anything the PTA tries to sell. (it is a scam anyway) I will not support a bond for schools in Fairfax. Not one dime is going to leave my pocket unless it goes direcly to my child.

Way to go PTAScary. That helps solve all problems. NOT NOT !

Have you read the e-mails from some of the other PTA members who want to close Clifton? They can close my kids school but I will NOT support the PTA where my kids will attend their next school.

I pay far more in taxes then many and I will not pay on more dime unless it goes directly to my child. FCPS is a joke.

**I also think since the next school my child goes to will be so big the PTA will not notice but at least it will make me feel better.

Dear PTAScary - I truly hope the elitist attitude you are presenting is just a person trying to get others insighted and angry. PTAs pay for numerous school functions that would otherwise not exist. GBW almost faced a shortfall this year due to some changes in our traditional fundraiser that we were unaware of prior to it starting. The first thing we would have lost was fieldtrips (the buses are funded by the PTA), Art in the Schools all the supplies funded by the PTA, the cultural assemblies which are some children's only exposure to the performing Arts (funded by the PTA) to just name a few. PTA volunteers spend so many extra hours behind the scenes preparing for things that others really sometimes take for granted. For you to say you won't support a school and their PTA because the School Board is closing yours and moving your child is similar to a truculent child grabbing their toy and saying well if you don't play by my rules (notice not neccesarily THE rules but MY) then you can't play.

I know a lot of parents in Clifton and they earned their money by hard work and positive attitudes not this negativity. Do I think it is right that Clifton closes - perhaps, but I don't know enough to give an educated opinion. I do feel that many of the reasons the School Board has presented have turned out to be negative and they wish to save face and stick with the decision they made. At the same time - I think there are some Clifton people that have gotten very hateful and negative. I was lucky to sit with a man at the intial meeting "Charlie" I think his name was. I was impressed with his even keel attitude but determination to keep Clifton open and his using facts to support it. Those are the people who should be representing you. Another lady came up to me and my friends later and she was so IN YOUR FACE HATE THE SCHOOL BOARD THEY ARE EVIL AND WE CLIFTON PEOPLE DESERVE THIS BECAUSE WE ARE CLIFTON - that attitude gets you no where and I'm afraid some of them are drowning out some of your really best parents representatives, it certainly turned me off but I at least had already been exposed to someone who rationally could present a point of view positively for Clifton.

YurRight as for the GBW PTA board wanting to be on the board at Poplar Tree. Well I know some of them and I get the feel that they really aren't about being on the board - just wanting to help their kids school whatever school it may be (because helping the PTA helps all kids including yours ScaryPTA) - even if they have a preference one way or the other on which school in the end the best way to help your child transition is to be a positive role model. I think for the PTA boards for all schools in this study it may be a hard transition as well - as someone who attends the meetings because I learn a lot about our school that way- many decisions are made in the Spring for the following year. I know people on both schools PTA board and I think they are trying to be prepared either way which is extra work for someone who does this as a volunteer. Again this is not a concern for our School Board and that is frustrating to me.

I hope that each school does an Open House and that the PTAs do a volunteer orientation at the begining of the year. I think it took me 2 years before I even knew where things like the laminator and all were let alone how to work them. I was glad the PTA did an orientation this year - a few of my friends went and said it was very helpful.Given all the changes that it looks like ALL our schools will be facing I think we parents are better off working together once the dust has clears than holding anomosity. As I tell my kids: You get what you get and you don't throw a fit." I'll continue to support staying put because I truly feel for a variety of personal and schoolwide (still having overcrowding not solved for one) that it is truly the best choice, but if moved then positive attitude ahead because when life gives you things you don't want then sometimes that is what you have to do to get by - living it almost daily in our house for a variety of issues already and if we need to add a disruptive change to it, well that is what we do -- just doesn't mean I'm ready to give up the fight yet either.Think we'll have to agree to disagree on what is the best plan for GBW, but I welcome working together whatever the outcome.

to:stayingput

So your kids to get stay at their current school? Lucky you! What is GBW?

That would be Greenbriar West.

GBW

That school must be a real shit hole if the parents cannot even afford fieldtrips. Yikes!

To Greenbriar West? I feel sorry that you feel the only thing you can do on this posting is be negative. Also I think you need to do a little research because your ignorance is showing regarding how PTAs and what they fund and school funding in general works -- transportation is an aspect of field trips not covered by the county schools - which is several thousand dollars. Perhaps you should see how your school covers that --- many PTAs fund that but most parents are unaware of that fact and just assume it is something that children are entitled to and given I know until I became involved I thought that it was a conuty covered resource but sadly it is not wheras it used to be. Our schools get less and less money as more and more of it is spent on things like this study. Just imagine if the man hours and money that has been spent on this was given to the schools to actually use.... I get the need to look at these things but I think the Board gets too wrapped up in the research of a topic to look at what they spent. I for one would like to see the total spent by the board on doing this study (including the salary of those who have been doing the "fact checking and data collection" ---I imagine it would leave most of us shocked.

To What is GBW? I am not lucky - in fact at this point my children have a high likely hood of being moved and I am still fighting for them to "stay put" pretty much what I wrote exactly. Rather I am aware that this may not happen and instead of being someone that can't deal with what the world gives me I choose to work with what I get when things don't go my way. Doesn't mean I am giving up or happy about this process, I just choose not to spout venom and pout like a toddler when I don't get my way or put it on someone else who is trying to creat positive change.

Fieldtrips are a waste of money. With everything going on FCPS needs to trim the fat.I say no to elementary strings,field trips, free lunch ect..

Teachers need a raise. Parents can and should provide for their own children. Trips, strings and lunch parents can afford. Fairfax county is second in the nation in salary. We can do better!

staying put wrote:

Our schools get less and less money as more and more of it is spent on things like this study. Just imagine if the man hours and money that has been spent on this was given to the schools to actually use.... I get the need to look at these things but I think the Board gets too wrapped up in the research of a topic to look at what they spent. I for one would like to see the total spent by the board on doing this study (including the salary of those who have been doing the "fact checking and data collection" ---I imagine it would leave most of us shocked.


This is what need to be looked at---not strings (minimal amount really) and field trips (PTA funded) and free lunch (which is a federal program and not a county program). But do you think the SB wants us to see this?

Indeed there needs to be a look at where money is being spent.

I guess the only way we will ever know is if another brave Clifton parent will sue for an answer. BTW, the PARENTS of the Clifton kids are paying the lawyers fees.

How about some of the other parents at the other schools pony up some money? Not going to happen.

I keep coming back to the question:

Why is Staff so anxious to close Clifton, move kids, and build/add on? Why is Gatehouse such a "great" idea? These studies cost money and keep staff employed. Is that what this is all about? Keeping a bureaucracy at Gatehouse? Keeping the engineers, et. al. working? Tistadt and Bradsher seem awfully tight. Is this about South County Middle School?

Is this power or something else?

The field trips still cost the parents a fortune at GBW. It is the bus fee that is crazy too. This $30-$50 to an animal farm is just plain wrong. Time to rethink all the field trips too. Not fair to dump the cost of the kids that cant pay on those that can. I will pay for my kid, but let the county find a way to fund the others not through my kid. I work hart and it is just not fair. It is not about my child. It is about some things that are a rip off. Field trips are. I will be happy at Poplar Tree and look forward to change.

Field trips can be useful--but they are not worth the money. With all the cuts, they can certainly be eliminated. Or limit them dramatically. Frequently, they go places the children have already been. By the time the bus gets them there, it is time to turn around and go home.

Have you ever chaperoned a trip to the museums on the Mall? If traffic is bad, the time spent there can be less than an hour--especially if you count the time the kids sit on the steps eating their lunches.

I would give up many things, field trip, bogus gift wrap, selling candy ect.. I want good teachers. I think FCPS needs to give teachers a raise.

The PTA loves to raise money but I would rather give on need. They make it into a contest. This is just dumb. This past year if your CHILD sold so many things they got a stuffed monkey. I told my kids it was a scam. I give money to my kids class but this contest concept is WRONG. It is beyond what we need to teach our kids. Shame on the PTA!

You are teaching kids the wrong example! I am a parent and I do not need the PTA's help. Ask for what you need and parents will give. Stop with the bullshit marketing to our kids!

PTA scams! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would give up many things, field trip, bogus
> gift wrap, selling candy ect.. I want good
> teachers. I think FCPS needs to give teachers a
> raise.
>
> The PTA loves to raise money but I would rather
> give on need. They make it into a contest. This is
> just dumb. This past year if your CHILD sold so
> many things they got a stuffed monkey. I told my
> kids it was a scam. I give money to my kids class
> but this contest concept is WRONG. It is beyond
> what we need to teach our kids. Shame on the PTA!
>
> You are teaching kids the wrong example! I am a
> parent and I do not need the PTA's help. Ask for
> what you need and parents will give. Stop with the
> bullshit marketing to our kids!


Thank you thank you thank you for posting this! I thought we were the only ones in FCPS who felt this way. Students need great teachers and a safe learning environment. They do not need contests for selling the most magazines, and gimmick-y prizes that really don't mean anything in the long run. Some of these schools' PTAs go overboard.

IF formerteacher agrees it is first hand from the school. Stop the wasted trips that our kids go with us as a family. Or make it an afterschool trip or Saturday. I hope Poplar Tree does not charge as much for field trips. Does anyone know how much their field trips are for 2nd and 5th graders?

"I would give up many things, field trip, bogus gift wrap, selling candy ect.. I want good teachers. I think FCPS needs to give teachers a raise.

The PTA loves to raise money but I would rather give on need. They make it into a contest. This is just dumb. This past year if your CHILD sold so many things they got a stuffed monkey. I told my kids it was a scam. I give money to my kids class but this contest concept is WRONG. It is beyond what we need to teach our kids. Shame on the PTA!

You are teaching kids the wrong example! I am a parent and I do not need the PTA's help. Ask for what you need and parents will give. Stop with the bullshit marketing to our kids!"


This is so true! I will give to my school but not with the PTA making kids be little salespeople. It is a joke. How come we allow this?

I totally agree about the excessive fundraising. I think the schools should set some serious limits on what the PTAs can do. I also think there are a lot of people who don't want to give unless the get a tangible item. I know PTAs would rather have the money and not a % so I give a large amount directly to our PTA. For those who complain about the trips etc and how schools are funding free lunch (which by the way is a FEDERAL PROGRAM and not a county program) I think private school may really be your best option, because it sounds like you think all kids have what your kids do as far as a financial and experential background and that is not the case. Perhaps you need to look at the hostory of public school and the mission. I think the focus needs to be on the excessive spending of the School Board on things like this study and other similar studies. Changes can be made in a school system without so much red tape - perhaps we need to elect some members who can cut the fat at Gatehouse an dput the money to the teachers.

At my kids school we have the teachers fill out a form on what they need for the class. The forms are kept at the front office in a binder. Parents can look up their childs class and buy what the want. It works out great!

PTA's that make the kids in class compete on who sells the most crap is WRONG! The keep a tally up in each class on who has sold the most stuff. WRONG! We need to put a stop to this. It is a scam and not fun for the parents.

I, for one, feel that PTA fundraising is a very lucrative endeavor.

at gbw it was not lucrative and they depended on that money. now buses for trips are a risk. the loss is a tragety.

I pulled this from another thread, but it bears repeating here. This is what we're going to be faced with - TRAILERS.

Everyone on here should be DEMANDING that the School Board HALT this so-called Boundary Study until we have some REAL answers with REAL solutions.

Relocating a bunch of modulars to the tune of almost $10,000,000 is not an acceptable answer.

We need a full blown financial audit of FCPS. Write to your County Supervisor and demand it. How many BILLIONS were found when VDOT was audited??? How much waste do you think is going on at FCPS? Why should we have to wait until next year when a new School Board takes office and hope that they fix the problems? We deserve answers and accountability now. Yes, DESERVE! It is OUR money they are spending. WHERE IS IT GOING??????


BanLearningCottages wrote:

People are very concerned whether trailer kids mix with luxury home kids - whether townhouse kids receive the same treatment as single family kids - whether the value of their homes, whatever kind of home, will be affected by the largest boundary change we have ever seen in the county.

The fact that the FCPS SB bonds and

>>>spends Millions of taxpayer dollars to just MOVE trailers<<<

[enough with 'Learning Cottages' - that is political correctness to the extreme lunacy] should be beyond disgusted.

We are trailering kids and teachers. What is wrong with us? When will everyone say 'no' to FCPS and this idiocy?
Attachments:

from questions to FCPS: (what kind of answer is this?)



How are you accommadating the additional students in Union Mill and Fairview before
the additional rooms are added?
Students from Clifton can be accommodated at their new school assignments with minor
modifications to the way space in the buildings is currently used. Architects’ and capacity
experts from the Design and Construction Office will work with the school principals to identify
modifications within the existing building that could increase capacity. Where required, some
boundary changes will be phased and in some instances, temporary classrooms may be
required pending completion of the classroom additions

so we make some children into martyrs?

from FCPS:

I noticed that you emphasized on "impacting the least students". Shouldn't "efficient"
and "fair" be more important? Sending some kids over an hour one way on the road so
that other students would not be impacted doesn't sound fair and efficient to me.
“Impact the least students†was a suggestion we received over and over again in the community
comments. We have shown options that impact a range of students from a high of over 2500 to
a low of about 1450. However, each option is responsive to some degree to goal of providing
effective and efficient use of space to accommodate our students pursuant to the School Board
policy and directives on this study.

to all parents pushing to put this off a year, how much extra money are you asking to waste. its done. option picked. move on. there are bigger battles to fight. lets all work together. news is in that clifton is closing. been decided you should worry where they split the kids. not wait another year.

I love Clifton and everything about it. Clifton elementary is GREAT! I am showing my kids what you do when you stand up for a cause. I will fight till the bitter end.

You will look back and see that the lesson your taught, is best left to the teachers.

We should start planning open houses by the PTAs to welcome those joining the schools like Poplar Tree. It is not official, it does make for closer community if is does not happen. It can be cluster carnival with the bands playing. You are all concerned why? Because you dont want to be with those kids. We are all part of our community and this is where we live. Thats what makes it great. Strike up the band. Have a cotton candy. Do a cake walk. Be part of the community.

The same PTA's that called Clifton parents rich sobs who act elite? The ones who said Clifton parents can send their kids to private school? No, thanks.

Sounds like these kinds of wounds don't heal with just a carnival. This is going to take a while.

It's easy to say, "get over it", when it's not your school that is being torn apart, and your kids that have to start at a new school.

don't judge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's easy to say, "get over it", when it's not
> your school that is being torn apart, and your
> kids that have to start at a new school.


I know what you mean. My area was affected by the Western County redistricting a few years ago and a number of people have said "get over it". It was annoying. Changes can be hard depending on what they are and time helps with getting used to whatever changes take place.

That is my point bout get over it. It is my kids school and all their friends that are being broken apart. Kids first.

yurright Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IF formerteacher agrees it is first hand from the
> school. Stop the wasted trips that our kids go
> with us as a family. Or make it an afterschool
> trip or Saturday. I hope Poplar Tree does not
> charge as much for field trips. Does anyone know
> how much their field trips are for 2nd and 5th
> graders?


Relax, field trips have all but been eliminated.

I used to do about 40 field trips in an average school year. This school year is almost half over and I have done 8, and only one of them was an elementary school trip.

And I have a lot of seniority, newer drivers probably haven't gotten more than a couple of field trips so far. This represents a large pay cut for drivers.

If allowed how much do you make for a field trip? Is it by miles, days, hours?

Field trips are a waste of taxpayer money. Many if not all can go into DC for almost free. Field trips take away from learning in a classroom. With SOL testing and such I say let the kids have extra recess each day. The time spent teaching to the test is ruining our kids.

Question for the bus driver? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If allowed how much do you make for a field trip?
> Is it by miles, days, hours?
>
> Field trips are a waste of taxpayer money. Many if
> not all can go into DC for almost free. Field
> trips take away from learning in a classroom. With
> SOL testing and such I say let the kids have extra
> recess each day. The time spent teaching to the
> test is ruining our kids.

We are paid our normal hourly wage, although sometimes a field trip can put a driver into overtime if they have worked 40 hours that week. This is the ONLY overtime that is allowed anymore.

I do think FCPS bills field trips by the mile because they want the mileage we drove with the students aboard, not to and from the school.

Athletic and band field trips are, for the most part, the only field trips we do anymore. I've been told that the Booster clubs pay for sports/band trips.

There are still 2 or 3 trips per year per grade. They rent the nice school buses and go to DC, etc, etc. The buses with the bathrooms because your buses need to be back for mid day and early hs runs. I get a form saying $50 to go to DC that is nuts. Higher cost to pay for first class bus. CHaperoens need to pay that amount too.

My kids are in elementary school and they go one one field trip a year. Maybe the upper grades go on more? I am glad the parent pays $50.00 fee.

Everyone should pay for their own child. Save up if you need to and don't expect the gov't to pay for everything.

I agree pay for your own. It should be after school and not force my kid to not go because we been to DC a billion times. A waste of money just ask formerteacher. For $50 you can get a nice steak dinner at Ruth Chris's and teach good manners. For DC trip you teach how boring sitting in traffic can be.

Next week a bus costs more than Ruth Chris because it is resturant week.

Not everyone has $175.00 dollars to go on a field trip with their child to Williamsburg. My kids went over the summer. It was a good trip but it was a one time thing. I can choose where to take my child for $175.00.

I told my daughter we were just in Williamsbug and that grandpa and grandma are going to take her for FREE to the new history museum. She is happy. It is all about choices.

I am sorry son but we can afford it but dont see the value in your going on the class trip that everyone else is going on. You have a choice though. What do you want to do. Then come the tears. I dont have that money.

Grandma and grandpa are great at taking the kids somehere fun. Plus they love to bond with their grandkids. If I asked my child they would pick family every time. Since they come up from Florida it is a double treat.

The Staff has posted their recommendation for the SW Boundary Changes.



http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/8D6SJ772DD51/$file/Appendix%20A.pdf

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Staff has posted their recommendation for the
> SW Boundary Changes.
>
>
>
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/fi
> les/8D6SJ772DD51/$file/Appendix%20A.pdf


I am halfway tempted to read it, but I think I would rather have the pirahnas have at it first and tell me what it really says...

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Staff has posted their recommendation for the
> SW Boundary Changes.
>
>
>
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/fi
> les/8D6SJ772DD51/$file/Appendix%20A.pdf


Where did you find this? I can't find it on fcps.edu. Interesting Sangster is not adding any students from Clifton at all.

If this is the staff recommendations what happens next? Do you think this means options a,b,c and d aren't being considered?

There is no link on the fcps.edu page or the SW Boundary page. I found it by going to the school board link and looking at the agenda for the upcoming meeting ans it's supporting docs. Kind of peculiar since every other time things regarding this study have been posted I received an email from FCPS. It's almost like they donn't want people to know it's there.

As far as what happens next, this is what staff is recommending so it will most likely be the option they vote on. The only opportunity fir community input will be the public hearings and individual letters to the School Board.

At this point dealing with FCPS and the current School Board is no different than playing slots in Vegas. We put in an enormous amount of money (property taxes) into the machine (FCPS Administration). Each option they keep presenting in this boundary study is like just watching another spin on the slots where we wait for the results but have zero control. Unlike what they are trying to lull parents into believing, it will likely be YEARS before any additions are put in so whomever ends up with the least amount of trailers is the winning combination on this slot machine.

Just like in slots, in the end the house (FCPS) will always eventually win and the people putting the money in (taxpayers) will lose. This is the kind of crap we are dealing with from the current School Board and School Administration.

Option E? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> herewegoagain Wrote:
>
>
> Interesting Sangster is not adding any
> students from Clifton at all.

How can that be? Sangster is a Govenor's Excellence Award school and closer to Clifton than some of the other schools. Does Bob Larsen have anything t do with this? He helped Liz orchestrate the closing of Clifton and then allegedlly tried to keep Clifton students from attending "his" school?"

They seperated the decision to close Clifton before doing this boundary study so everyone would forget about Clifton and be forced to divert their attention and spin their wheels on this dumb boundary "study". That is all they want you to do here - spin your wheels.

If Clifton had any health issues, they wouldn't legally be allowed to have the school open now with kids attending.

This whole boundary study is a dog and pony show just like everything else they do. They said they Clifton had no fire suppression system yet they are going to spread the kids all over to various schools into trailers which have no fire suppression system. They said Clifton is old yet Fairview is older. Get the picture yet?

BiggerPicture Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They seperated the decision to close Clifton
> before doing this boundary study so everyone would
> forget about Clifton and be forced to divert their
> attention and spin their wheels on this dumb
> boundary "study". That is all they want you to
> do here - spin your wheels.
>
> If Clifton had any health issues, they wouldn't
> legally be allowed to have the school open now
> with kids attending.
>
> This whole boundary study is a dog and pony show
> just like everything else they do. They said they
> Clifton had no fire suppression system yet they
> are going to spread the kids all over to various
> schools into trailers which have no fire
> suppression system. They said Clifton is old yet
> Fairview is older. Get the picture yet?


How else were they going to get the parents at the other schools to automatically accept trailers and increased class sizes?

Looks like the biggest winners (in terms of impact on RE values) will be those in new Poplar Tree ES district and the biggest losers, apart from those at Clifton ES, will be those in new Virginia Run ES district.

Poplar Tree is Kathy's home......

real estate observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poplar Tree is Kathy's home......

The percentage of low-income and ESOL kids at Poplar Tree would decline drastically under this proposal.

If her house is in the revised Poplar Tree boundaries, the opponents have more ammunition to argue that there's one set of rules for Kathy and Liz and their friends, and another set of rules for everyone else.

Of course this whole "re-districting because of over crowding" is about changing WIC and ESOL numbers in a few elementary schools. This has been one of their goals the whole time. We saw this at the first of the "community" meetings. And now the staff has posted their recommendation without and further input from the affected communities. This whole process has been a joke. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the Clifton folks win tomorrow and the school board is forced to scrap this social engineering plan.

real estate observer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poplar Tree is Kathy's home......


Where does County Supervisor Frey live? Why not just redistrict the overcrowding to HIS neighborhood school since he created this problem in the first place. He doesn't have a problem with it so there should be no complaints from him or his neighbors, right?

A new map come out today and it looks my kids will be going to Oak View. While I am sure it is a good school this is the first time Oak View has been on the list of schools.

I live in Clifton and Oak View is 19 miles away from my house. That seems far away to me. I wonder how long my kids will be on the bus?

FCPS has no idea what they are doing. This whole "study" has just been a joke.

Oak View elementary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A new map come out today and it looks my kids will
> be going to Oak View. While I am sure it is a good
> school this is the first time Oak View has been on
> the list of schools.
>
> I live in Clifton and Oak View is 19 miles away
> from my house. That seems far away to me. I wonder
> how long my kids will be on the bus?
>
> FCPS has no idea what they are doing. This whole
> "study" has just been a joke.

I don't think Oak View could possibly be 19 miles from your house. The Clifton area slated for Oak View is along Colchester and Newman Roads. Maybe you are 3-4 miles from Ox Rd? From Fairfax Station Rd to Oak View at most it is 4 miles.

Dear Kathy and Liz,

My kid will go to Poplar Tree with the new proposal. For that, I applaud you. I know many people will not thank you but we do. You have dont right for us. Thank you.

19 miles. When I was a kid we use to hear the stories of our great grandparents walking in the rain and snow that far to go to school. It can be done.

Objective as set forth by the School Board:

"Achieve a building utilization between approximately 95% - 105% of program capacity at all elementary schools within the study area"

9 of 23 schools do not meet this objective in the recommendation put forth by the FCPS Staff by the 2015-16 school year. 38% of the schools in the study NOT MEETING one of the objectives of the "project". And we pay these people?

Better yet, from 2011-2012 school year through the 2014-2015 school year 11 of 23 schools do not meet this objective in the recommendation put forth by the FCPS Staff. That is 47.8% of the schools in the study. This is a "solution"?

Here is the kicker, 3 schools that will receive "capacity enhancements" will be under the 95% capacity level by 2015-16. And why exactly are we spending $15+million for this?

Justataxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Objective as set forth by the School Board:
>
> "Achieve a building utilization between
> approximately 95% - 105% of program capacity at
> all elementary schools within the study area"
>
> 9 of 23 schools do not meet this objective in the
> recommendation put forth by the FCPS Staff by the
> 2015-16 school year. 38% of the schools in the
> study NOT MEETING one of the objectives of the
> "project". And we pay these people?
>
> Better yet, from 2011-2012 school year through the
> 2014-2015 school year 11 of 23 schools do not meet
> this objective in the recommendation put forth by
> the FCPS Staff. That is 47.8% of the schools in
> the study. This is a "solution"?
>
> Here is the kicker, 3 schools that will receive
> "capacity enhancements" will be under the 95%
> capacity level by 2015-16. And why exactly are we
> spending $15+million for this?

Because the world as we know it would come to an end if Liz Bradsher and Dean Tisdadt admitted they were wrong, and Clifton parents have to be taught a lesson. Didn't you know?

These people have elevated cutting one's nose to spite one's face to an art form.

Virginia Running-Away Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> real estate observer Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Poplar Tree is Kathy's home......
>
> The percentage of low-income and ESOL kids at
> Poplar Tree would decline drastically under this
> proposal.
>
> If her house is in the revised Poplar Tree
> boundaries, the opponents have more ammunition to
> argue that there's one set of rules for Kathy and
> Liz and their friends, and another set of rules
> for everyone else.


Not only would many of the lower income kids and ESOL kids from Poplar Tree be going to different schools - my neighborhood would be transfered out of Greenbriar West and to Poplar Tree. All of our homes are larger sized single family homes.

Personally I know Poplar Tree is actually closer to my house. But I love Greenbrair West, doesn't mean I won't come to love Poplar Tree --- just not pleased that my kids have to start new again. I have been so happy with the adminstration and teachers at GBW and would be sad to leave them.

Also, I am personally glad my children were at a very diverse school. My kids have friends from many countries and socieconomic backgrounds and truly see themselves as part of a community of learners and friends. They are interested in how their freinds celebrate different holidays and have many aspects of their life that are different as well as how they are similar and share those experiences with us - it has been such a positive aspect of not only their education but life. I think for me that is the worse part of the plan because it looks like in moving us into Poplar Tree they are taking out much of that diversity.

Please note that the legal fees for FCPS in FY 2011 are estimated at 6,579,431. FY2010 was 2,571,749. The request for FY 2012 is 2,512,205.........?

Other professional services for 2011 are $25,441,281. This is double what they spent in 2010 and 11 million less than the request for 2012. What are "other professional services?

This is from page 160 of the budget.

At Poplar Tree the allow all that should be in classes take class and not only GT kids so the numbers look good. You will have more opportunity for your children at Poplar Tree. We will all move together. One for all and all for one. The school will still be diverse. Just minorities will no longer be the majority.

There is diversity and there is overkill. GBW was overkill. Poplar Tree has international night too.

UMMHHH did you notice the areas being moved out of Poplar Tree? Pretty much most of the lower income areas and areas that tend to have higher % of esol kids.... I think Poplare Tree is going to suprised how much Poplar Tree will change from this shift as well.

Not sure what you mean only GT students get to participate. My children are not in GT and they participate fully in all activities including academic. I think that is a gross misrepresentation of GBW.

In the end it will all be good. We live in an area where you get diversity at school, Fair Lakes shopping center, mall, and everywhere around this area. It will also help Poplar Tree numbers and the admin at Poplar Tree are very nice.

I am not sure why folks are mixing "The percentage of low-income and ESOL kids" issues with the change in Poplar Tree boundary.

The current boundaries at Poplar Tree ( and GBW for that matter) are really weird - any sane person will admit to that. I hope whichever proposal they pick, will fix these issues.

Put the kids in the schools in their neighborhoods, not across Stringfellow down the road and over. Look at the map and that solves it. If people are upset there are less ESOL or whatnot. That is because that is where people bought their houses and paid more for it. The schools should work by map not by numbers.

Exactly..and as far as I can tell, the final proposal is doing a decent job of matching schools to your location on the map.

For that we are happy for the school board members that we elected. It will be a great year next year. I can feel the energy in our community already.

Why is Sangster suddenly not getting Clifton kids? I think that the principal didn't want Clifton kids in her school and asked the school board to send them elsewhere.

Clifton parents not want Sangster in the mix after the comments the PTA made. It is a win,win for all.

I am so sick of FCPS and the closing of a great school but I must admit I may now ready for this mess to be over. Just tell us where our kids are going and be done with it.

Clifton parents Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clifton parents not want Sangster in the mix after
> the comments the PTA made. It is a win,win for
> all.
>
> I am so sick of FCPS and the closing of a great
> school but I must admit I may now ready for this
> mess to be over. Just tell us where our kids are
> going and be done with it.


What comments did the PTA make?

what happened to Sangster? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is Sangster suddenly not getting Clifton kids?
> I think that the principal didn't want Clifton
> kids in her school and asked the school board to
> send them elsewhere.

Don't think, OK? Just the facts please.

tell us Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clifton parents Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Clifton parents not want Sangster in the mix
> after
> > the comments the PTA made. It is a win,win for
> > all.
> >
> > I am so sick of FCPS and the closing of a great
> > school but I must admit I may now ready for
> this
> > mess to be over. Just tell us where our kids
> are
> > going and be done with it.
>
>
> What comments did the PTA make?

Yes, do tell.....? What comments exactly. Principals don't have that authority, plus Sangster would be a good choice if the students must move...nearby, Govenor's Excellence Award and the Sangster busses go that way anyway. Also, capacity would be at 105%. It could be so much worse.

Sangster is a great school and we do want or need any kids brought into our school. Over 100% is too many kids.

Sangster would be over the 100% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sangster is a great school and we do want or need
> any kids brought into our school. Over 100% is too
> many kids.

Careful there, you could be pushed out to make room. Wouldn't be the first time. Better them instead of you, eh? Hmm, maybe I'll suggest it.

Sangster seems kind of far from Clifton elementary. Maybe that is the reason? What is sad is the Clifton children are being spit up. In the end it may even be 4-5 schools. That does not seem fair.

FCPS rushed this and now a lot of kids are being moved. Sad.

Sangster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sangster seems kind of far from Clifton
> elementary. Maybe that is the reason? What is sad
> is the Clifton children are being spit up. In the
> end it may even be 4-5 schools. That does not seem
> fair.
>
> FCPS rushed this and now a lot of kids are being
> moved. Sad.


It is sad Clifton kids are being split up. It is even more sad what is happening to some Fairview kids along Fairfax Station Rd. Half (@20) are going to Bonnie Brae and the other half are going to Oak View. I hope my children have at least one old friend from Fairview. I am mad at the SB (not at Clifton folks). We are ALL suffering.

I am sorry to hear your kids are being made to move. My kids are also slated to go to Oak View. I was unable to get much info about the school from the FCPS.

Is it a good school?

Oak View? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am sorry to hear your kids are being made to
> move. My kids are also slated to go to Oak View. I
> was unable to get much info about the school from
> the FCPS.
>
> Is it a good school?


It is a great school!! Tests scores are on par with all the other schools in the area. Oak View is a split feeder. Most children go to Frost/Woodson. Children in the immediate surrounding area feed into Robinson.

Thank you for the information. A few more questions for you.

1. How large are the class sizes?

2. Does the school have after school clubs?

3. Is the PTA involved in the school?

4. I have read that Oak View has about 700 kids. Would another 100 kids added to the school make the over school over-crowded?

Thank you for taking the time to look at my questions.

From a Clifton parent.

to Oak View parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for the information. A few more
> questions for you.
>
> 1. How large are the class sizes?
>
> 2. Does the school have after school clubs?
>
> 3. Is the PTA involved in the school?
>
> 4. I have read that Oak View has about 700 kids.
> Would another 100 kids added to the school make
> the over school over-crowded?
>


> Thank you for taking the time to look at my
> questions.
>
> From a Clifton parent.

Sorry if I confused you - my children are currently at Fairview so I can't answer these questions. From the latest boundary study from the demographic sheet it indicates next year it will be about 15 students over capacity. Which won't be as overcrowded as Fairview will be next year. The latest study indicates Fairview's addition (4 classrooms) will be through interior modifications so at least no trailers. I don't know where/how the interior modications will work. The cafeteria size is the same so lunch will have to start earlier and go later. Kiss 'n ride will be more backed up, parking is difficult during school events, buses will back up even further on Ox Rd. at arrival.

It sounds like so many of you are ready to quit and just give in, regardless of how wrong this is. Not all of these changes are terrible, don't get me wrong. Some of the schools involved need real solutions. The recommendation does help some of the overcrowding in the worst areas, but creates overcrowding where none exists now. That's not a solution. Especially not when it's going to cost over $15 Million to build additions at schools projected to be below 95% capacity in a few years. How does that make sense to anyone?

Giving up now isn't the answer. That's what the SB wants everyone to do; get tired of it and go away.

How many on here plan to speak at the Public Hearing on Feb. 7th?

The hearing is a mere formality that the SB has to endure for the sake of appearances; they have already made up their minds and know exactly what they are going to do. But if you don't go and speak out if you're upset with this recommendation, then you really don't have much room to complain. Kind of like bitching about the POTUS when you didn't bother to vote.

Registration for the hearing just opened. If you have something to say, tell it to the SB on the 7th. Here's the link to register to speak.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JK798WD

herewegoagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds like so many of you are ready to quit
> and just give in, regardless of how wrong this is.
> Not all of these changes are terrible, don't get
> me wrong. Some of the schools involved need real
> solutions. The recommendation does help some of
> the overcrowding in the worst areas, but creates
> overcrowding where none exists now. That's not a
> solution. Especially not when it's going to cost
> over $15 Million to build additions at schools
> projected to be below 95% capacity in a few years.
> How does that make sense to anyone?
>
> Giving up now isn't the answer. That's what the
> SB wants everyone to do; get tired of it and go
> away.
>
> How many on here plan to speak at the Public
> Hearing on Feb. 7th?
>
> The hearing is a mere formality that the SB has to
> endure for the sake of appearances; they have
> already made up their minds and know exactly what
> they are going to do. But if you don't go and
> speak out if you're upset with this
> recommendation, then you really don't have much
> room to complain. Kind of like bitching about the
> POTUS when you didn't bother to vote.
>
> Registration for the hearing just opened. If you
> have something to say, tell it to the SB on the
> 7th. Here's the link to register to speak.
>
> http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JK798WD


You are wrong on one point -- they aren't going to get additions. They are going to get trailers. They have never committed on paper an exact date of when additions would be built and there are plenty of other schools in the County that have had trailers longer than you will have had. You are all screwed.

Trailers are for losers. My little one only wants the best. Bye FCPS.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/01/fairfax-school-board-do-over-needed-more-ways-one


A Fairfax school board do-over needed in more ways than one
TAGS: Barbara F. Hollingworth Fairfax School Board FOIA
Comments (1) Share Print By: Barbara Hollingsworth 01/18/11 8:05 PM
Local Opinion Editor

Virginia's Freedom of Information Act is quite clear: Except in certain limited instances, meetings of public bodies must be open to the public. The law's intent is also clear: Public officials cannot do public business in secret.
The Fairfax County School Board has been accused of multiple violations of the state's open meetings law, as well as its own strategic governance rules, according to a lawsuit filed Jan. 7 in Fairfax County Circuit Court by Patton Boggs attorney Benjamin Chew. School board members allegedly exchanged secret e-mails about matters under discussion during public meetings regarding the closure of Clifton Elementary.

One of these e-mails, dated June 15, 2010, which surfaced as a result of FOIA requests by Clifton resident Jill DeMello Hill, show school board member Liz Bradsher -- whose Springfield district includes Clifton -- brazenly coaching members of a West Springfield High School parents' group on how to advance in FCPS' renovation queue by lobbying board members to close Clifton. "If we decided to close Clifton, your bonding could be moved [up two years] to 2011," Bradsher tells members of the parents' group.

At the board's June 28 public hearing, which lasted until 1 a.m., 149 county residents passionately testified to keep their community school open even as board members were busy exchanging private e-mails.

Board member Stuart Gibson of Hunter Mill even chastised the development director of a nonprofit that runs a family shelter near the school, warning her that it was "highly inappropriate for your organization to be lobbying the school board on this issue."

Talk about highly inappropriate. During the school board's July 8 public meeting, Dean Tistadt, the school system's chief operating officer, secretly e-mailed board members a report that found nothing wrong with the school's supposedly contaminated well water. The expense of fixing the water problem was one of three main arguments made for closing the school. This report completely eliminated it.

Yet according to e-mail transcripts, board Chairwoman Kathy Smith of Sully, Tessie Wilson of Braddock, and Patricia Reed of Providence -- who was participating from a remote location even though she was officially listed in the board minutes as "absent" -- discussed posting the water report before the vote with school board clerk Pamela Goddard.

"It can wait until tomorrow!" Wilson says. "I checked with Kathy and she agrees. GOOD GRIEF! Does she not realize we are in the middle of the meeting?" Without publicly divulging the explosive contents of the water report, the board then voted 9-2 to close Clifton without any plan for relocating its 369 students.

Besides Smith, Wilson, Bradsher, and Gibson, board Vice Chairman Brad Center of Lee, Ilryong Moon, at large, Jim Raney, at large, Dan Storck of Mount Vernon, and Jane Strauss of Dranesville voted to shutter the school.

"In effect, the school board pretended to conduct an open meeting while it simultaneously, by e-mail, discussed the same matters in a secret 'closed' session,' " the lawsuit alleged, asking the court to require FCPS to post all withheld e-mails pertaining to the vote on its Web site, hold a "properly noticed public meeting to reconsider the closure in accordance with its own policy (1501.3) to conduct its business in public, and schedule a re-vote.

On Tuesday, the lawsuit was voluntarily withdrawn before trial because representatives of the Fairfax County Public Schools and the school board are still refusing to provide documents requested under FOIA. If board members are allowed to get away with ignoring Virginia's open meetings statute, they will never again conduct controversial public business in public.

So besides demanding a do-over of the Clifton vote, voters should do-over the school board as well.

Barbara F. Hollingsworth is The Examiner's local opinion editor.



Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/2011/01/fairfax-school-board-do-over-needed-more-ways-one#ixzz1BXOd96QK

To the parent upset they are losing diversity. Do you get it at your church? Yes? Then your children have diversity. No? Then why expect it from the school?

That is the LAST thing I would look for at my kids school is diversity. I went to GMU and they all wanted to live
with their own ethnic group They formed clubs based on race,ect.