So I saw this post now that the Metrow extension past Dulles will run approx $333m per mile into Loudoun.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/local-opinions/2010/09/is_phase_two_of_dulles_metro_t.html

I don't think it's worth it. Metrow to IAD is just fine and should happen. They can build out a bus depot and additional parking at the airport to support that station for commuters.

With the cost overrun for the Loudoun phase looking at more than a $1b more than planned I don't see it getting built. Frankly, I don't think it should be built - it's a waste and a Metrow pipe dream. They can't even run the current system, how the hell are they going to run something out in the boonies?

And I can't stand hat the state gate the toll road to the airport goons. It gives them too much control over a road they have no business managing (yeah they had to to get Metrow off the ground on the toll road, I know). I'm sorry, but terrorists took off from Dulles, airport cops should be focusing on security of the airport, not peeps cruising 71 mph in the middle lane.

Metrow

I've read that they're now rethinking their plan to put the metro stop in the Dulles terminal. They're saying it's too expensive. Instead, they would put the station somewhere near the parking garages. It's totally stupid to build the "Dulles rail" and not have have the thing drop you off at the terminal. Dulles is already enough of a hassle, why screw up the metro by making it just as inconvenient as the rest of the airport? If canceling the Loudoun stops can help pay for a station at the main terminal, I'm all for it. I always thought those 2 stops in Loudoun were too ambitious anyway.

The whole project is not worthwhile. They should be spending the money to fix the existing system rather than expanding anyhow. People are going to drive no matter what. I think they should beef up the shuttle system from west falls church. Metro around tysons makes sense, but forget about dulles.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've read that they're now rethinking their plan
> to put the metro stop in the Dulles terminal.
> They're saying it's too expensive. Instead, they
> would put the station somewhere near the parking
> garages. It's totally stupid to build the "Dulles
> rail" and not have have the thing drop you off at
> the terminal. Dulles is already enough of a
> hassle, why screw up the metro by making it just
> as inconvenient as the rest of the airport? If
> canceling the Loudoun stops can help pay for a
> station at the main terminal, I'm all for it. I
> always thought those 2 stops in Loudoun were too
> ambitious anyway.

Basically BWI...

They can't stop the whole project at this point, nor could they use any of that money for improving the existing system. That funding was specifically for the expansion.

IMO, it makes no sense to have a very busy international airport not connected to the local subway system. It's totally worthwhile.

I've never been to BWI so I don't really get the reference.

The Amtrak/MARC station at BWI is about 2 miles from the terminal and requires a shuttle bus - its frequently jammed beyond capacity and your wait for the shuttle can be up to 20 minutes.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They can't stop the whole project at this point,
> nor could they use any of that money for improving
> the existing system. That funding was
> specifically for the expansion.
>
> IMO, it makes no sense to have a very busy
> international airport not connected to the local
> subway system. It's totally worthwhile.
>
None of the New York airports connect to the NYC subway...

Same with DFW

Same with Houston

Same with LAX



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2010 09:30AM by ITRADE.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've read that they're now rethinking their plan
> to put the metro stop in the Dulles terminal.
> They're saying it's too expensive. Instead, they
> would put the station somewhere near the parking
> garages. It's totally stupid to build the "Dulles
> rail" and not have have the thing drop you off at
> the terminal. Dulles is already enough of a
> hassle, why screw up the metro by making it just
> as inconvenient as the rest of the airport? If
> canceling the Loudoun stops can help pay for a
> station at the main terminal, I'm all for it. I
> always thought those 2 stops in Loudoun were too
> ambitious anyway.


+1, I couldn't agree more.

==================================================================================================
"And if any women or children get their legs torn off, or faces caved in, well, it's tough shit for them." -2LT. Bert Stiles, 505th, 339th (On Berlin Bombardier Mission, 1944).

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> None of the New York airports connect to the NYC
> subway...

I should have used the term "rail system" and not "subway". There are trains running from JFK that can connect you to the subway in NYC, same thing at O' Hare. LAX sucks, I hate that airport, but it's easy enough to drive around LA and their metro system probably wouldn't take you where you need to go anyway.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've read that they're now rethinking their plan
> to put the metro stop in the Dulles terminal.
> They're saying it's too expensive. Instead, they
> would put the station somewhere near the parking
> garages. It's totally stupid to build the "Dulles
> rail" and not have have the thing drop you off at
> the terminal. Dulles is already enough of a
> hassle, why screw up the metro by making it just
> as inconvenient as the rest of the airport? If
> canceling the Loudoun stops can help pay for a
> station at the main terminal, I'm all for it. I
> always thought those 2 stops in Loudoun were too
> ambitious anyway.

+1

I take the "L" out of O'Hare all of the time. If it's just a bit of a walk like that, it's fine. If they want to do the same thing that they did at BWI, fuck that idea.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

The alternate spot is across the temp lot in front of the airport. Info on it is available on http://www.dullesmetro.com in the Phase II section.

In this PDF:
http://www.dullesmetro.com/pdfs/Phase2UpdateInformationPacket-PDF-updated.pdf

It costs about the same as the Beltway HOT lanes from Springfield to the American Legion bridge, perhaps less.

SomeGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The alternate spot is across the temp lot in front
> of the airport. Info on it is available on
> http://www.dullesmetro.com in the Phase II
> section.
>
> In this PDF:
> http://www.dullesmetro.com/pdfs/Phase2UpdateInform
> ationPacket-PDF-updated.pdf


Why can't they just put the damn aerial option by the Terminal along the lines of how the Metro works at National? Is it that difficult to put it on the other side of the parking lot?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

If it gets people off the roads I'm all for it. Traffic in the area is a nightmare.

They need to build a shit brown line to Alto Plaza.

If only the W&OD railroad hadn't met its premature demise in the late 60's. A unbroken right of way from Alexandria to the Blue Ridge. What a useful rail line could have been running there today.

Washington and Old Dominion Railroad – At the End of the Line, An Opportunity Lost

Washington and Old Dominion Railroad - Wikipedia

Great Falls and Old Dominion Railroad - Wikipedia

Clobbersaurus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Metrow


I think that's ebonic for Metro

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SomeGuy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The alternate spot is across the temp lot in
> front
> > of the airport. Info on it is available on
> > http://www.dullesmetro.com in the Phase II
> > section.
> >
> > In this PDF:
> >
> http://www.dullesmetro.com/pdfs/Phase2UpdateInform
>
> > ationPacket-PDF-updated.pdf
>
>
> Why can't they just put the damn aerial option by
> the Terminal along the lines of how the Metro
> works at National? Is it that difficult to put it
> on the other side of the parking lot?


I think that's what the proposal is - on the far side of the hourly lot and just south of the North Daily garage.

The initial plan looks like a tunnel that runs right underneath the southmost edge of the hourly lot (the $36.00 hour lot) with a 550 foot underground walkway to the terminal.

The alternate plan is an above ground station that is (as I said) between the hourly lot and the North daily garage. The drawback here is a 1,150 mile foot walkway to the terminal.

What is making things difficult from what I can tell are 1) the desire to not trench and bury the Metro tunnel under option 1 and instead boring the tunnel which is a lot more expensive, and 2) the need to snake the tunnel/bridge around Runway 18L/36R. A big U shape. You don't have that issue at DCA...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2010 06:48PM by ITRADE.

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The drawback here is a 1,150
> mile walkway to the terminal.


1,150 miles? Shit, you're probably better off flying than trying to take metro and walk!

My bad... 1,150 feet. Doing anything at IAD makes it feel like 1,150 miles...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2010 06:48PM by ITRADE.

I actually see no issue with having it out by the parking deck - I park there all the time and the underground walkway to the terminal is easy, has moving sidewalks, and to save a half-billion? I say by all means put it at the parking deck and have them walk into the terminal like everyone else parking there and SAVE 500,000,000!

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TheMeeper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They can't stop the whole project at this
> point,
> > nor could they use any of that money for
> improving
> > the existing system. That funding was
> > specifically for the expansion.
> >
> > IMO, it makes no sense to have a very busy
> > international airport not connected to the
> local
> > subway system. It's totally worthwhile.
> >
> None of the New York airports connect to the NYC
> subway...
>
> Same with DFW
>
> Same with Houston
>
> Same with LAX

Yet Reagan national got it right. Reagan is a lot smaller but more efficient especially if you are just going downtown, unfortunately I live a lot closer to Dulles.

really Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually see no issue with having it out by the
> parking deck - I park there all the time and the
> underground walkway to the terminal is easy, has
> moving sidewalks, and to save a half-billion? I
> say by all means put it at the parking deck and
> have them walk into the terminal like everyone
> else parking there and SAVE 500,000,000!


Really, though, why can't they put the aerial platform by the damn Terminal? I don't understand why that is so difficult to do?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Why hasn't Orange line been extended to Centreville? or Gainesville for that matter?

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ITRADE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TheMeeper Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > They can't stop the whole project at this
> > point,
> > > nor could they use any of that money for
> > improving
> > > the existing system. That funding was
> > > specifically for the expansion.
> > >
> > > IMO, it makes no sense to have a very busy
> > > international airport not connected to the
> > local
> > > subway system. It's totally worthwhile.
> > >
> > None of the New York airports connect to the
> NYC
> > subway...
> >
> > Same with DFW
> >
> > Same with Houston
> >
> > Same with LAX
>
> Yet Reagan national got it right. Reagan is a lot
> smaller but more efficient especially if you are
> just going downtown, unfortunately I live a lot
> closer to Dulles.

The original Metro station was built with DCA in mind; this is an entirely new set of rails and infrastructure.

Part of what makes DCA easier is that the terminal is on one side of the airport and the runways are on the other side. Thus, road access and infrastructure access does not have to worry about interference from the runways.

At IAD, the terminal was built in the midpoint of the two runway pairs - something very typical of multi-runway airports - Charlotte, Raleigh, San Juan, LAX, Atlanta, etc., all typify this type of airport layout. Roads and infrastructure must be routed around and between the runway pairs.

Rambunctious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why hasn't Orange line been extended to
> Centreville? or Gainesville for that matter?

Politics and money. DC and Maryland don't want to help pay for metro extensions in Virginia, downstate Virginia legislators don't want to pay for a system that will just serve NoVa (especially after the money spent on the Wilson Bridge and the Mixing Bowl) and the Feds and NoVa jurisdictions don't have the money to do it on their own.

I've flown all over the country and taken many subways\trains to the airports. Once the line from the city reaches the airport it never goes any further. Airports seem to be end points, not hubs.

Rambunctious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why hasn't Orange line been extended to
> Centreville? or Gainesville for that matter?


Because the Orange Line is already standing room only by the time you get to Ballston in the morning. It's already over-capacity.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Don't forget the extension to Dulles only got built with a 900 million federal guarantee and the toll road being able to pay a major part from their fares.