I searched but didn't see this topic discussed before.

My sump pump runs every heavy rain, even though I keep gutters clean and water draining away from the house as much as I can.

The sump pump is the original one that came with the house and is about 20+ years old. At some point it is going to die so I'd like to have a backup one installed when it does. I could have it replaced with the same make and model but I hate fixing something that is not broken. I don't want to go the backup generator route either because I know that is a headache to maintain.

Who does this work? Anyone have good experience with a contractor that does this? I want someone who does this as a primary job. I've search around online but I see lots of ripoffs where they are really trying to 'waterproof' the basement, etc.

First of all if you are at all handy you can do the job yourself. Take the top off your sump pump well and take a look - the job is as simple as it looks.

Secondly, you have been lucky. Its only a matter of time before we have a storm and you lose power. The combination had 2 inches of water in the basement inside of a day. Go to Home Depot / Lowes / Fishers and get a battery powered backup for ~150. Wall plug keeps it charged until the power fails and then keeps the backup going for days. A very inexpensive insurance policy

Sounds good, I'll look at it this weekend but I'll stay away from the crap Home Depot sells and find out what backups my present pump manufacturer sells. It might cost more in the short run.

So it's _not_ supposed to run at all? Just when water is accumulating around the foundation? Mine never runs, I almost think it's broken. Granted I don't have any water problems in the basement, so I take it that a good thing and the drainage around my house is fine?

Yeah, I'm pretty naive about this as you can tell.

Hey ricky, call the donks at Cropp Metcalfe. They can handle anything about a sump pump and last I looked they do sell the money metal backup power unit for your hurting sump pump for a silly modest upcharge.

Do not try to use a hurting felted computer UPS. It will burn out. It's a show.

Borgata.

Farrish Kia.

Felted metal crankshaft.

If you are going to go through the trouble of installing a battery backup, you might as well replace the primary pump while you're at it.

I suggest you install a new Zoeller M53 pump for your primary and if you want to stick with Zoeller (which is a good brand), buy the 507 "Basement Sentry" backup system. Zoeller will only warrant the backup system for one year if you don't use their battery. Their battery is ok, but you can buy much better deep cycle marine batteries for much less at West Marine or the gas station.

I am a plumber, and the most common mistake I see with homeowner-installed backup systems is incorrect placement of the check valves. Make sure you get this right or the backup system will be useless. It will look nice, but it will just recycle the water in the sump crock. The next most common error is incorrect float position for the backup pump -- mainly the cutoff level. You must make sure the float will cut the backup pump off before the water level gets lower than the base of the backup pump. If you don't, the pump will turn on when the water gets high enough and the pump will continue to run until the battery is drained in about six hours. There are several other different things with all brands of backup pumps that must be done exactly as the instructions say.

They really are simple to install if you just carefully follow the instructions.

Here's a list of (more than you need) what you should buy in addition to your primary pump and the backup pump. You can return what you don't use):

1- 1-1/2" PVC x Male adapter
1- 1-1/2" check valve (sometimes you don't need this. Sometimes you need 2 of them)
3 or 4- 1-1/2" PVC 90s
3 or 4- 1-1/2" PVC street 90s
3 or 4- 1-1/2" PVC 45s
3 or 4- 1-1/2" PVC couplings
1 or 2- 1-1/2" Fernco couplings (rubber couplings with hose clamps)
3 or 4- 1-1/2" PVC street 45s
1- 1-1/2" PVC Tee
1- 1-1/2" PVC Wye (this might be easier to use than the tee listed above)
Pint of PVC glue
Pint of PVC cleaner/primer
5 to 10 feet of 1-1/2" Schedule 40 PVC pipe
Bag of 12" zip ties (to keep all of the wires out of the way of the floats)

I will keep track of this thread in case you run across a problem, and I will post as soon as I can.

Are water-powered backup sump pumps worth a shit? Assuming you have the necessary municipal water pressure, the concept sounds good. No moving parts, batteries, generators, etc.

say Wrote:
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> Are water-powered backup sump pumps worth a shit?
> Assuming you have the necessary municipal water
> pressure, the concept sounds good. No moving
> parts, batteries, generators, etc.

Some water backups work ok, but none I have seen have near the discharge rate of the junkiest battery backup pump.

They are usually a good bit more expensive for the unit, itself, and they always cost considerably more to install, whether you have a plumber do it or if you do it yourself. Installation is usually very time consuming. I have only ever seen one kit that came with the correct backflow protection, but in that case, it is because the backflow preventer was an option (add $250.00) and the customer asked me which one he should have the pump company send with his kit. Most of the kits I have seen don't even mention the need for backflow protection -- it is a very important and necessary requirement, though.

I have installed a few for people who just had to have them, and the quickest I have been able to get one done is three hours. This installation had a 3/4" cold water line right above it, so it was the best case scenario. My most time-consuming installation took seven hours and a ton of materials, and the customer was left with a bunch of drywall and paint repairs because the water line I needed to connect to was on the other side of his finished basement.

I have also seen several systems installed by homeowners -- these are pretty much the reason I was called to their homes in the first place -- they failed. When one of these systems is installed incorrectly, the chances of a flood in the basement are much greater than if you had no pump at all. I have seen all types of rigs using hoses, clamps, wrong fittings, etc., which have lead to disaster.

While the water backup pump manufacturers tout "easy installation," I don't recommend a weekend installation by the average homeowner. In fact, I don't recommend the water-powered pumps in the first place.

If you do go this route, get the correct backflow protection and have a competant plumber install it. Be prepared for sticker shock, though.

There's some good advice here already. I would add one other point. If your sump is running alot, it is possible that you may have a larger problem that needs to be dealt with. Perhaps its a grading issue that causes water to flow towards your house rather than away from it. Perhaps too much water is flowing into the same area causing the ground to get saturated. Perhaps your home is in a low lying area and water from other properties is flowing into it. Perhaps your home was sited on top of a spring. Without knowing more it is hard to do more than speculate.

The way I look at it, the more often the sump pump has to operate the more likely is is to fail. A backup system is a good idea, but an even better idea is to try to solve the problem that causes the water to be there in the first place.

Bill Wrote:
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an even better idea is to try to solve the problem that causes the water to be there in the first place.

This is dead on.

While I am a plumber and not a waterproofing expert or grading specialist, I always look for the source of excessive flow of water beneath the slab if the customer doesn't already know where it is. I need to know if this problem is something new or if it has progressed over time to the point it is now, etc., etc. Usually, the customer has no answers, so I do my part by checking all of the types of things Bill mentions, along with many other things. On several occasions, I have found that the customer's water service is leaking somewhere between where it enters the home and the street. The water will usually follow the service ditch and flow beneath the slab and into the sump crock. However, as Bill alludes to, there are far too many things to consider and without actually being there and looking at things, working out where the source is on an internet forum would be tiresome.

I meant to address this in an earlier post: You said you wanted to find a contractor who specializes in backup pump systems. I don't think you are going to find a backup pump installation company, per se. Your best bet will be to find a reputable and competant plumber who will stand behind his work. Don't go the waterproofing company route because most of the guys they send to your home to do the installation don't know much more about what needs to be done than you do.

Find a plumber on Angie's list or Washington Consumers' Checkbook. If you do this, you might even end up with me knocking on your door. Sorry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2010 08:16AM by One-Way.

WOW thanks for all the good advice, thoughts and recommendations.

I didn't want to discuss grading and property elevation because its hard to describe. My house is on a small slope with a neighbor at a higher elevation of about 4 ft. I've looked for streams of water coming my way from his property but that doesn't seem to be an issue. Not knowing anything about ground water or water tables I'd say mine is normally high. I can tell when my wife leaves the hose on after watering her plants the previous evening because the small amount that sprays out at the hose connection accumulates overnight and in the morning I'll hear the sump pump operating. So if that relatively small amount of water will cause the ground water to rise that much than it looks like I'll always have to rely on the pump.

I'm usually a handy DIY guy but few things frighten me more than water damage so I don't mind spending more for the peace of mind for someone to do it right the first time with quality equipment.

Watch them. Carefully. It's apparently a tradition a lot of "professionals" like to use your sump as a toilet while they are out there installing your pump.