http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html

Second shooting at Virginia Tech, school's Web site reports; 7 more casualties reported by The Associated Press

NBC News is reporting "at least 20 people killed". Holy shit.

Columbine-type Massacre. Horrific!

any way we can get the police scanner down there?
I have tons of friends down there.
really concerned.

from what i heard it started as a bf/gf dispute.

At least 21 dead and 21 injured? Gunman suicide? Frank Beemer unaccounted for? Tupac seen running from dining hall?

Guess which of those items isn't true

22 Dead now - 28 Wounded

My bet is on a Xanax gunman again. I wonder if he had a concealed carry permit?

Apparntly school temporarily lifted lockdown...and then the gunman struck again--Have a feeling some scrutiny will come down on tech police for doing that

Ryan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apparntly school temporarily lifted lockdown...and
> then the gunman struck again--Have a feeling some
> scrutiny will come down on tech police for doing
> that


Heard that. Expect resignations and lawsuits to fly after this.

4/13/2007

Today is one of the most important days of the year for gun owners. The start of the NRA Annual Meetings is both a celebration of freedom and a rally for the Second Amendment, but it's also a show of force by gun owners to the enemies of freedom everywhere.

As tens of thousands of freedom-loving Americans descend on St. Louis, the anti-gunners are doing everything they can to chip away at your rights.

Sarah Brady's sending e-mails to Brady Campaign supporters, hoping to start a Brady Gun Law Defense Fund. Unlike the NRA's Civil Rights Defense Fund, the Brady lawyers will be trying to hurt gun owners, not help them. They're pushing for persecution of the Second Amendment, not protection. But when we gather in St. Louis, we show them we won't be pushed around.

Boston Mayor Tom Menino's calling for a ban on all semi-automatic firearms. Mr. Mayor, we've already seen what that has done for England and crime there. Why would you insist on disarming law-abiding Americans? Menino and his cohort Michael Bloomberg want to turn millions of Americans into instant criminals. But when we gather in St. Louis, we show them we won't be pushed around.

Rebecca Peters of the International Action Network on Small Arms is pushing an arms trade treaty that would gut our Second Amendment freedoms. They're not interested in lobbying Congress or state legislators. Instead, they want to go global, with the help of anti-gun politicians in countries without the Second Amendment. That arms trade treaty, if ratified by Congress or signed by a future president, would mean a global war on your guns the likes of which has never been seen. But when we gather in St. Louis, we show them we won't be pushed around.

In fact, when we gather in St. Louis, we're pushing back. We're pushing for Castle Doctrine laws across the country. We're pushing for legislation that ensures the gun confiscations in New Orleans will never be repeated in this country. We're pushing to protect our rights to protect ourselves, even against anti-gun employers who want to leave you defenseless to and from work. When we gather in St. Louis, we're pushing to protect and promote our freedoms, and we won't stop pushing until we've won.

Too bad CHP holders are not allowed to arm themselves on campus...

http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770

nakedshoplifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Too bad CHP holders are not allowed to arm
> themselves on campus...
>
> http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770



Too bad some nut had easy access to guns.

I know a lot of people down there. Here are some early exclusive pics.

All photos by Nick Dodson. First photo came with the caption "some dumbass went outside during the lockdown"
Attachments:

More pictures here: http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t106/cutullus/Campus%20Shooting/

The dude should have just shot the fucker.

nakedshoplifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Too bad CHP holders are not allowed to arm
> themselves on campus...
>
> http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770


Yes, more guns on campus would ensure the safety of students. I believe we should protest by having all permit holders march through local campuses (or "campi"), both high school and college displaying there guns. It will make the students feel safer n these trying times.

Spin Meister Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> nakedshoplifter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Too bad CHP holders are not allowed to arm
> > themselves on campus...
> >
> > http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770
>
>
> Yes, more guns on campus would ensure the safety
> of students. I believe we should protest by having
> all permit holders march through local campuses
> (or "campi"), both high school and college
> displaying there guns. It will make the students
> feel safer n these trying times.


You have to forgive Nakedshoplifter. He has been brain-washed by the NRA propoganda machine. He thinks because the NRA can demonstrate a handful of instances when someone has used a handgun in self-defense that that should nullify the thousands upon thousands of times arguments and domestic disputes have turned into murders because there happened to be a gun readily available.

Rumors say everybody was killed with two 9mm handguns



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2007 02:50PM by Lurker..

Thread from the first Virginia Tech shooting (William Morva; August 21, 2006): http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read.php?2,21439

All I can say is this - I am stunned and feel very heartbroken. I hope those who are inclined will say prayers for those innocent students and their families who have been touched by this. I simply cannot even to begin to imagine the horror of this event. As the eyes and ears of the entire world are now turned to our state of Virginia, please Please stop the arguing about guns, cops and the satirical comments and pray that tragedies like this can be averted in the future. Pray also for the victims and their families.

Trickie

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HNrBd4kKMg

what a completely innapropriate, insensative and selfish time to bring up the argument over the 2nd ammendment.

At 3:30 I heard the following: 31 dead including gunman. He was killed his gf and RA since he caught her cheating. Tech sends out an email saying there was a shooting, be careful. Gunman goes into engineering classroom and shoots 31 more. The wounded cannot be medevaced out do to the weather. Wounded die. Deadliest shooting in US history at a school or some other caveat like that. Almost 8 years to the day of columbine shooting, which was 4-20-99 and killed 12.

EditL Va Tech homepage now says 33 killed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2007 05:04PM by KeepOnTruckin.

How many bullets in a 9mm handgun\cartridge?

Just wondering how many times he had to reload the 9mm to kill 33 and wound 28 some people.

well the barreta 92F holds 15 9mm bullets i belive that be like 5 reloads.

edit. not saying thats the gun he had.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2007 05:48PM by KeepOnTruckin.

The Calico M900 can hold 100 9mm rounds, A little less rare would be a 30 round magazine in a glock, beretta, Tec, uzi, etc. Even more common would be the 15 round beretta mentioned above or the 17 round glock.

would that be teh glock 17 or the glock 18 (illegal isnt it?)

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what a completely inappropriate, insensitive and
> selfish time to bring up the argument over the 2nd
> amendment.

First, I took the liberty of fixing the spelling in your message. Perhaps less time with guns and more time with books is in order.

Second, the argument over the timing has been made time and time again. The NRA rally in Denver went on days after the columbine shooting - I guess that was not a good time to talk about it either. The NRA is meeting now in St Louis. Do you think they let everyone go home early and think about this? No. Knowing the NRA, they are in damage control mode - just like after the Reagan shooting and other times.

The point has been made - even at Texas political rallyies - that responsible gun owners should be the first ones to demand for gun control. Since the people who use guns responsibly should want others to do the same. It appears it is not the case. The NRA will fight ANY law which will affect gun ownership by any group. It is sad, very sad.

And do we really think allowing any student to carry a gun to class would have stopped this tragedy? Perhaps, one or two students would have been able to pop this guy right away and stop further bloodshed. The question is would letting students carry guns to class and in the dorms lead to several more unforeseen consequences?

From what I have hear, jealously over a girl may have prompted the gun man to do this terrible act. Or, maybe, another theory I have heard is he got into an disagreement with a professor. On college campus's both of these things are rare in occurrence, right? And these rare occurrences pushed someone (with access to a gun) to act irrationally. Another rare occurrence on a college campus, right?

Maybe, if he did not have access to a gun, he would have thrown all of his furniture out the dorm room window, like my fraternity brother did when his girl friend left him and he was flunking out of school. Dangerous, yes, destructive, yes, actual loss of life - 0.

Be responsible with your gun, and demand profusely that everyone else is responsible with theirs. That is all I ask.

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> From what I have hear, jealously over a girl may
> have prompted the gun man to do this terrible act.
> Or, maybe, another theory I have heard is he got
> into an disagreement with a professor. On college
> campus's both of these things are rare in
> occurrence, right? And these rare occurrences
> pushed someone (with access to a gun) to act
> irrationally. Another rare occurrence on a college
> campus, right?


Bullshit. Who wouldnt be angry if one found one's gf cheating on another. Anyone here who has been to school every argued with a teacher?



Hey Cary, you should put those pictures on wikipedia

I am entirely sickened by this. Such a tragedy, so many families and people scared for life now not to mention the dead. This gives all the law abiding gun owners a bad rap. Just like the tool that shot up the Sully police station, he should have had the guts just to take himself out or realize something was wrong and seek psychological help for even thinking something like this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2007 07:28PM by Mofo.

Reports say shooter was a Chinese national here on a student visa. I've also heard gun was stolen with serial numbers filed off.

Nice school and nice people, a real shame. They have a great veterinary program with a lot of caring students enrolled.

Please leave the gun debate and snipping for later.

:(
Attachments:

I saw that pic. earlier, and it just about made me cry. ='(
RIP to all those victims, and my prayers are with the families. This one hit real close to home. ='(

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am entirely sickened by this. Such a tragedy, so
> many families and people scared for life now not
> to mention the dead. This gives all the law
> abiding gun owners a bad rap. Just like the tool
> that shot up the Sully police station, he should
> have had the guts just to take himself out or
> realize something was wrong and seek psychological
> help for even thinking something like this.


Come on.. he was just a poor lost soul, was not his fault. Maybe video games made him do it. He was just a nice young man that use his right to bear arms. Right? oh sure, put more guns everywhere, that would've fix the problem. Screw that, that's the perfect example not to "arm ourselfs" like the f'd up_NRA_brainwashed freaks want us to do. Put more guns on the hand of any retard and you'll have headlines like this everyday. What does the NRA have to say about this tragedy??? You and I know that not everyone with psychological problems is going to seek help. And don't give me the NRA lecture of the "law abiding gun owners" shit. That's the excuse they use to get guns. Don't get me wrong, i like guns. Would love to have one, but why?? all it takes is somebody to snap and you have a horrible tragedy like this one. Perfect example.

Good thing the guy's mental state had nothing to do with him opening fire, otherwise, we wouldn't be able to blame the existence of guns for the problem.

The Congressman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Calico M900 can hold 100 9mm rounds, A little
> less rare would be a 30 round magazine in a glock,
> beretta, Tec, uzi, etc. Even more common would be
> the 15 round beretta mentioned above or the 17
> round glock.

They said on the news last night that 17 round glock is now legal because an old law expired. It used to be illegal. Here's a picture of what the killer probably used.
Attachments:

I've been keeping quiet but this has to be answered.

4wheeler wrote "Right? oh sure, put more guns everywhere, that would've fix the problem"

It appears to me in this incident the killer was the only person with a gun, the exact opposite of what you decry. The disparity of force was lopsided. Your argument is flawed.

There will be a meeting this Thursday in Annandale where 50-75 citizens will be armed in one room. There will be no gunfire or accidents. But, what would the outcome be if an unhinged person started shooting in that room? Would 50-75 people be dead? Or would one person, the shooter? The disparity of force would be against the unhinged shooter.

I'm prepared to drop the gun arguments on this thread if everyone else is. But, if you all continue to post comments that need correction I won't hesitate to respond.

nakedshoplifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
, that would've fix the problem"
>
> It appears to me in this incident the killer was
> the only person with a gun, the exact opposite of
> what you decry. The disparity of force was
> lopsided. Your argument is flawed.
>


There were armed police officers in the building when this was going on. At Columbine there were armed security guards. The outcome was the same.

For your argument not to be flawed, one would have to assume that 1) EVERYONE would need to carry a firearm to make a difference. Statistically speaking the odds of a student packing heat in that building, regardless of the laws or regulations, are pretty remote. 2) An opportunity would have to present itself where someone could actually use the firearm. Trained police officers get killed all the time because they don't have time or opportunity to draw their weapon against a criminal (Fairfax County cop killings would be a case in point). Would the circumstance really be that different in this situation? 3) The person with the gun would be proficient enough to hit the gunman without killing other people. There are basically no requirements for people to know how to use guns. Also, there needs to be the will to kill another human being, regardless of what that person is doing.

Let me give you an example of where there are no gun laws - Iraq. Is that what you propose for this country? Baghdad?

If you put guns in the hands of common public, we will have many such incidents in the future. Period.

Huh? Guns ARE in the hands of the common public and yet these incidents are very rare. In fact MORE rare in VA where there are more gun rights than in MD and DC. NEXT

1) Let me give you an example of where there are no gun laws - Iraq.
There are gun laws in Baghdad. They cannot/do not enforce them. Just like they cannot enforce a multitude of other laws in Baghdad. Great example. Not. There's lots of cars in Baghdad, just like there's lots of cars in Blacksburg. But... no car bombs in Blacksburg yet.

2) Armed guards at Columbine couldn't stop to violence.
Those cowards (guards) ran AWAY from the action. The police didn't enter the cafeteria for quite some time. That's why policy was changed after Columbine. Current policy is to storm the gunman with overwhelming force and stop the killing no matter the cost of life or limb to officers.

We can't draw any conclusions from the limited video of Blacksburg to determine of the police followed this principle. Sure, there were lots of police on the scene. Did they go in and stop the killer? All evidence says yes at this point. The killer "offed" himself when police closed in.

3) An opportunity would have to present itself where someone could actually use the firearm.
The killer chained the doors preventing escape by the students and entry by the police. If a CHP holder had been inside the building, they would be in a position to save lives, while the police were stuck outside scratching their balls waiting for bolt cutters to arrive.

4) Persons in possession of CHP's would not be ready or mentally prepared to fire on an attacker.
Just why do you think people get CHP's? To lug around an extra pound and a half on their belt for no reason? You're delusional if you think a CHP holder would hesitate to stop this mayhem. They have taken an active decision to protect themselves.

5) Citizens with guns are not accurate enough and might hurt innocent bystanders.
Yes, the Korean killer was so sloppy with his shooting that he missed all of his intended targets [sarcasm]. Most CHP holders shoot more than the avg police officer. Some police only shoot enough to qualify (300 rounds per year). I personally shoot 300-400 a week.

6) Cops are killed before they can draw their gun.
Cops wear uniforms. Cops are known to carry guns. Cops are the first target. CHP holders are unknown. They are no more likely to be identified then a non CHP holder. The element of surprise is in their favor.

CHP holders = Ponch and Jon. -§

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ferfux Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what a completely inappropriate, insensitive
> and
> > selfish time to bring up the argument over the
> 2nd
> > amendment.
>
> First, I took the liberty of fixing the spelling
> in your message. Perhaps less time with guns and
> more time with books is in order.
>
> Second, the argument over the timing has been made
> time and time again. The NRA rally in Denver went
> on days after the columbine shooting - I guess
> that was not a good time to talk about it either.
> The NRA is meeting now in St Louis. Do you think
> they let everyone go home early and think about
> this? No. Knowing the NRA, they are in damage
> control mode - just like after the Reagan shooting
> and other times.
>
> The point has been made - even at Texas political
> rallyies - that responsible gun owners should be
> the first ones to demand for gun control. Since
> the people who use guns responsibly should want
> others to do the same. It appears it is not the
> case. The NRA will fight ANY law which will affect
> gun ownership by any group. It is sad, very sad.
>
>
> And do we really think allowing any student to
> carry a gun to class would have stopped this
> tragedy? Perhaps, one or two students would have
> been able to pop this guy right away and stop
> further bloodshed. The question is would letting
> students carry guns to class and in the dorms lead
> to several more unforeseen consequences?
>
> From what I have hear, jealously over a girl may
> have prompted the gun man to do this terrible act.
> Or, maybe, another theory I have heard is he got
> into an disagreement with a professor. On college
> campus's both of these things are rare in
> occurrence, right? And these rare occurrences
> pushed someone (with access to a gun) to act
> irrationally. Another rare occurrence on a college
> campus, right?
>
> Maybe, if he did not have access to a gun, he
> would have thrown all of his furniture out the
> dorm room window, like my fraternity brother did
> when his girl friend left him and he was flunking
> out of school. Dangerous, yes, destructive, yes,
> actual loss of life - 0.
>
> Be responsible with your gun, and demand profusely
> that everyone else is responsible with theirs.
> That is all I ask.


why dont you take a placard and a bullhorn and run down to every Murder scene with that same message and see how people react. This is neither the time nor the place and you are an insensative asshole. Vtech Campus is a place of learning and not a fucking wild west saloon. SO STFU

I'm going to throw this out there because of grammar trends in the above post, but "ferfux" = "gravis", perhaps? -§

nakedshoplifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) Let me give you an example of where there are
> no gun laws - Iraq.
>
3,000 + Casualties so far and climbing 10,000+ civilians and counting
>
> 2) Armed guards at Columbine couldn't stop to
> violence.
> Those cowards (guards) ran AWAY from the action.
> The police didn't enter the cafeteria for quite
> some time. That's why policy was changed after
> Columbine. Current policy is to storm the gunman
> with overwhelming force and stop the killing no
> matter the cost of life or limb to officers.
>
Gaurds evacuated students
I have read many reports on Colombine and not once have i read that there were "ARMED gaurds" on Campus


>
> 3) An opportunity would have to present itself
> where someone could actually use the firearm.
> The killer chained the doors preventing escape by
> the students and entry by the police. If a CHP
> holder had been inside the building, they would be
> in a position to save lives, while the police were
> stuck outside scratching their balls waiting for
> bolt cutters to arrive.
>
Yes and more "CHP" holders could have added to the mayhem Shooting unarmed innocents who were mistaken for the shooter himself adding to the death toll

> 4) Persons in possession of CHP's would not be
> ready or mentally prepared to fire on an attacker.
>
> Just why do you think people get CHP's? To lug
> around an extra pound and a half on their belt for
> no reason? You're delusional if you think a CHP
> holder would hesitate to stop this mayhem. They
> have taken an active decision to protect
> themselves.

you have no idea how any individual would react when confronted in a crisis, YOU yourself would probably piss your pants then get shot in the forehead
>
> 5) Citizens with guns are not accurate enough and
> might hurt innocent bystanders.

Exactly!

> > 6) Cops are killed before they can draw their gun.
>


An armed gaurd on Campus would be just as likely to deter a would be murderer
as to become a first target of oppurtunity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2007 03:23PM by Shoplifters Will Be Prosecuted.

Bottom line is no matter what you say, any NRA/2nd ammenment brainwashed moron is going to argue that more guns and freedom to have guns = no crime. Could not be further from the truth. We are not trying to take your guns away so stop crying and freaking out, we all now that you have a constitutional right that gives you that. All it takes is some idiot with a gun on the rd getting pissed that was cut off by another driver and claim self defense to start shooting. That's the reality. That's what it would happen, no matter how much of your no sense propaganda and conpiracy theory you are claiming. oh wow, "I personally shoot 300-400 a week". Good for you. I feel safer now. Give me a break. BTW, did you see the news? PD found the reciept of the gun he personally bought. Looks like it was too easy for a "law abiding citizen" to buy a gun by using his 2nd ammenmet right, don't you think?.

If anybody can propose a reasonable way to keep guns out of the hands of people who will misuse them without infringing on the second amendment, I'm sure everyone would listen. It's not an easy issue to deal with.

I didnt know this victim but I like his profile, sounds like a great person and teacher, he will surely be missed;

Jamie Bishop, 35, an instructor in German and German literature. According to his Web site, Bishop spent four years living in Germany, where he "spent most of his time learning the language, teaching English, drinking large quantities of wheat beer

I beleive it was Chris Rock who suggested we make all ammo, bullit by bullit exorbitantly expensive. One bullet = 5 grand. Makes people think, is popping a cap in this dude's ass worth $5000 of my hard earned cash? nah Id just punch him in the grille



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2007 06:13PM by ferfux.

I have no problem with that, as long as one blog post, forum post, or any public posting on the Internet is the same price.

Please, I am not an advocate for guns being concealed carried on campuses. But let's not forget that this horrific slaughter occurred in a location where guns are not allowed. DC was several times the Nation's murder capital, because of handgun crimes, despite strictly prohibiting the possession of handguns.

Prohibiting handguns does not stop the sick, the pathetic, the thugs, from getting guns. It prohibits competent individuals from being able to pull a handgun from their shoulder holster and pop the criminal before he plugs a hole in you.

So lets say that all guns are prohibited EVERYWHERE becuase that will stop all gun violence right? Now some terrorist/drug organization ships in guns. They are the only armed people beside cops etc. If the cop isnt there, what happens when they start shooting?


LEts say everyone can have a gun. Entirly different situation. Drug lord pulls out a gun and starts shootign, and is gunned down by 4 bystanders

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So lets say that all guns are prohibited
> EVERYWHERE becuase that will stop all gun violence
> right? Now some terrorist/drug organization ships
> in guns. They are the only armed people beside
> cops etc. If the cop isnt there, what happens when
> they start shooting?
>
>
> LEts say everyone can have a gun. Entirly
> different situation. Drug lord pulls out a gun and
> starts shootign, and is gunned down by 4
> bystanders


Or 4 bystanders not knowing who the drug dealers are and who the responsible gun weilding citizens are gun each other and innocent bystanders down. Yeehaw

ferfux Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> why don't you take a placard and a bullhorn and run
> down to every murder scene with that same message
> and see how people react. This is neither the time
> nor the place, and you are an insensitive asshole.
> Vtech Campus is a place of learning and not a
> fucking wild west saloon. SO STFU.


Sir,

While I believe no one here said they were directly related to anyone involved in the tragedy, and for the fact that we are several hours away, plus most people on this site are reasonable human beings and would participate in a reasonable discussion, I do not believe I have to "STFU".

Again I corrected you spelling mistakes, and this time I corrected your grammar, capitalization and comma mis-use. You are very welcome.

I am a reasonable person and will not show with a bullhorn and a placard and disrupt a trying time for the victims and their families. I do not learn my debate strategies from Godhatesfags.com. Do you?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041601831.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2007 07:35PM by ferfux.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041601831.html


Back on topic and off 2nd ammendment gun control

Gun prohibition would never work in this country because (A Most current gun owners would not turn their guns in and (B there are way too many guns in this country to make that viable. Maybe after 50-60 years gun violence might become less frequent. You could restrict ammo but you can load your own ammo with spent casings, powder and primers. If you restricted primers from being sold as well as normal ammo then that might take care of that but again some people have crates of ammunition stored up. No quick easy fix anyway you look at it. I'm not looking to get into an argument with anyone over guns but this is my opinion and as many know here I own several guns.

FairF4x0r Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Huh? Guns ARE in the hands of the common public
> and yet these incidents are very rare. In fact
> MORE rare in VA where there are more gun rights
> than in MD and DC. NEXT
_____________________________________________________

Very correct Sir! How very intelligent you people are sir!
Sir, please say this same thing over and over again everytime such an incident occurs in US of A!
Thank You sir!

>
> Sir,
>
> While I believe no one here said they were
> directly related to anyone involved in the
> tragedy, and for the fact that we are several
> hours away, plus most people on this site are
> reasonable human beings and would participate in a
> reasonable discussion, I do not believe I have to
> "STFU".
>
This first paragraph is an example of a run on sentence. The statement, "While I believe" is redundant because you are making the statement. There should be a period after the word tragedy. The phrase, "and for the fact that" should be edited off this sentence as well as it renders it a passive sentence as well as a fragmentented sentence. You do not know if most people on this site are reasonable you only speak for yourself. So this sentence is a fallacy.

> Again I corrected you (SP) spelling mistakes, and this
> time I corrected your grammar, capitalization and
> comma mis-use. You are very welcome.
>
The use of, "again" renders this a passive sentence. It should read, "I corrected your spelling mistakes, grammar, capitilization" Stating that you corrected my comma mis-use falls under grammar.
You also mispelled, "your" in relation to my spelling mistakes.

> I am a reasonable person and will not show with a
> bullhorn and a placard and disrupt a trying time
> for the victims and their families. I do not learn
> my debate strategies from Godhatesfags.com. Do
> you?

I am a reasonable person and will not show with a
bullhorn and a placard and disrupt a trying time
for the victims and their families.

Show up where? Bad grammar.


I never mentioned a website called, "GHF.com". Do not cite referances where there are none.

Thank you ever so much for your patronizing post. It would seem I could return the favour in correcting YOUR grammar.

You are very Welcome.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2007 08:28PM by ferfux.

Ferfux YOUR a dumbass (purposely spelled wrong)
I hate getting into grammar wars here, but since obviosly there is one occurring, i wil involve myself.

First off, you misspelled quite a few words.
"referances" "run on sentence" "mis-use" to name a few.

You have randomly capitalized words in at least one sentence(s).
"You are very Welcome"

"There should be a period after the word tradgedy." Thats not true. A run-on sentence occurs when you add on a bunch of unrelated things. The passage
"While I believe no one here said they were
> directly related to anyone involved in the
> tragedy, and for the fact that we are several
> hours away, plus most people on this site are
> reasonable human beings and would participate in a
> reasonable discussion, I do not believe I have to
> "STFU"." is a list separted by commas. Putting a period after "tragedy" would make it a sentence fragment, smart one.

Now I am not saying that all my spelling is correct, but I checked a grammar textbook for the grammar.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ferfux YOUR a dumbass (purposely spelled wrong)
> I hate getting into grammar wars here, but since
> obviosly there is one occurring, i wil involve
> myself.
>
> First off, you misspelled quite a few words.
> "referances" "run on sentence" "mis-use" to name a
> few.
>
> You have randomly capitalized words in at least
> one sentence(s).
> "You are very Welcome"
>
> "There should be a period after the word
> tradgedy." Thats not true. A run-on sentence
> occurs when you add on a bunch of unrelated
> things. The passage
> "While I believe no one here said they were
> > directly related to anyone involved in the
> > tragedy, and for the fact that we are several
> > hours away, plus most people on this site are
> > reasonable human beings and would participate in
> a
> > reasonable discussion, I do not believe I have
> to
> > "STFU"." is a list separted by commas. Putting a
> period after "tragedy" would make it a sentence
> fragment, smart one.
>
> Now I am not saying that all my spelling is
> correct, but I checked a grammar textbook for the
> grammar.


Holy shit, first the shooting, then is the right to bear arms debate, now we are correcting spelling, grammar and where the freaking commas and periods should go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2007 10:48PM by 4wheeler.

welcome to fairfax underground, 4wheeler. Apparently you've never read an entire thread here if that is what is getting under your skin.

§ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm going to throw this out there because of
> grammar trends in the above post, but "ferfux" =
> "gravis", perhaps? -§


I second this. Totally Same M.O.

Too bad Virginia Tech, like most colleges, banned all firearms from campus.

A bill in the Virginia legislature last year that would have allowed students with concealed weapons permits to carry their guns at schools was killed, with VA Tech spokesman Larry Hincker heralding the move as action that would "help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Full Article http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770

It is important to note that there was a shooting at the Virginian Appalachian School of Law in 2002. Students with gun permits ran to their cars and grabbed their guns and ended the killing spree with only 3 dead.

It was Chris Rock who stated the above, and I have to say that as time goes on the more I agree with it.

If every person everywhere carried a loaded gun, then maybe people would think twice before trying something. Think about it, all bank tellers, all people traveling via airplanes, trains etc, everyone! If it cost $5,000.00 per bullet (and then we would have to somehow secure all materials used to make them at home), then I believe people would think twice before shooting!

I know, your arguments will be "what about knives" or any other alternate way of harming someone, but you 'll need to remember that all of those alternatives will force the would be "killer" to get up close and personal. Given the fact that (according to FBI profilers and the like,) the only criminals that do that are SERIAL killers; and since they are far and few between; who knows....maybe the crime rate would indeed go down!

Yes, only serial killers kill with knives or in other ways that require getting close to a person.

D2 is a brilliant researcher, who can no doubt back this up with facts, figures, and documents. I seriously doubt he was talking out his ass just now in order to make a point just to sound smart.

I seriously doubt he was talking out his ass just now in order to make a point just to sound smart.


Dear RESton Peace,

I hope you meant this as a compliment, as that is how I interpreted it. THANK YOU if I perceived it correctly!

Apr 18, 2007 (AP Online via COMTEX) -- Number of deaths from firearms for every 1,000,000 people in the following countries in 2003:

- Brazil: 213

- South Africa: 126

- United States: 41

- Canada: 5.1

- England and Wales: 0.3

- Japan: 0.3

true Blue Red Blooded American White Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Apr 18, 2007 (AP Online via COMTEX) -- Number of
> deaths from firearms for every 1,000,000 people in
> the following countries in 2003:
>
> - Brazil: 213
>
> - South Africa: 126
>
> - United States: 41
>
> - Canada: 5.1
>
> - England and Wales: 0.3
>
> - Japan: 0.3

What a surprise that the countries that have banned handguns have the fewest deaths and crimes. Go figure... LOL And that, "buy a handgun for protection" LOL Nobody believes that any more. Get out of the 70's and 80's. This is year 2007.

Politically Correct Cartoon
Attachments:

Jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And that, "buy a handgun for
> protection" LOL Nobody believes that any more.
> Get out of the 70's and 80's. This is year 2007.


Well people might as well start god damn believing it.
I know this point was used above, but at the apilachan law school shooting, it got stopped becuase people who had guns used them.

Now this didnt happen, but if on september 11, 2001, the people on the planes had had guns, the plane that crashed in PA might have been saved as passengers could have killed the hijackers.

>
> Well people might as well start god damn believing
> it.
> I know this point was used above, but at the
> apilachan law school shooting, it got stopped
> becuase people who had guns used them.
>
> Now this didnt happen, but if on september 11,
> 2001, the people on the planes had had guns, the
> plane that crashed in PA might have been saved as
> passengers could have killed the hijackers.


HAHAH and following that to its logical conclusion, if Private Citazens on Sept 11th had owned Fire Jets they could have taken to the skies and SHOT THOSE CRIMINALS out of the blue! God is great god bless the USA

I still don't see Hampton U or Norfolk State in that cartoon. That's racist.

BLACKSBURG, Va. (April 18) - Between his first and second bursts of gunfire, the Virginia Tech gunman mailed a package to NBC News containing what authorities said were images of him brandishing weapons and a video of him delivering a diatribe about getting even with rich people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2007 05:30PM by ferfux.

CNU, longwood, and NOVA also arent there.

Firearms like huge SUV's have become a part of American culture. We refuse to give up gas guzzling suv's no matter the cost of gasoline. I don't think Americans are willing to give up their firearms either no matter the cost of lives.
Again not taking a pro or anti gun stance. Just making an observation.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> welcome to fairfax underground, 4wheeler.
> Apparently you've never read an entire thread here
> if that is what is getting under your skin.


I was being sarcastic....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2007 07:43AM by 4wheeler.

cw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Firearms like huge SUV's have become a part of
> American culture. We refuse to give up gas
> guzzling suv's no matter the cost of gasoline. I
> don't think Americans are willing to give up their
> firearms either no matter the cost of lives.
> Again not taking a pro or anti gun stance. Just
> making an observation.

In my neighborhood we have one very pro-Democratic party lady who always has her yard peppered with campaign signs. But all of her neighbors have smaller vehicles and she has a Ford Expedition... single mom but the kids are all grown so Miss Environmentalist has the worst carbon footprint of all, driving that thing around all day with no one but herself in the car.

I personally thought it was time to stop labeling the environment as a red-blue issue a long time ago. We all have to live here, and we will all die here.

Helping businesses by relaxing environmental standards may seem like an ok idea in the short term, but what about long term, when that business has to deal with the consequences of non-preservation?

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ferfux YOUR a dumbass (purposely spelled wrong)
> I hate getting into grammar wars here, but since
> obviosly there is one occurring, i wil involve
> myself.
>
> First off, you misspelled quite a few words.
> "referances" "run on sentence" "mis-use" to name a
> few.
>
> You have randomly capitalized words in at least
> one sentence(s).
> "You are very Welcome"
>
> "There should be a period after the word
> tradgedy." Thats not true. A run-on sentence
> occurs when you add on a bunch of unrelated
> things. The passage
> "While I believe no one here said they were
> > directly related to anyone involved in the
> > tragedy, and for the fact that we are several
> > hours away, plus most people on this site are
> > reasonable human beings and would participate in
> a
> > reasonable discussion, I do not believe I have
> to
> > "STFU"." is a list separted by commas. Putting a
> period after "tragedy" would make it a sentence
> fragment, smart one.
>
> Now I am not saying that all my spelling is
> correct, but I checked a grammar textbook for the
> grammar.



Keep on Truckin What a fuckin Nerd you are! I wish you were around when i was in school So I could trick you into checking my spelling and grammar too.
WAY TO GEEK OUT DORK BOY

this thread got way off topic

cw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Firearms like huge SUV's have become a part of
> American culture. We refuse to give up gas
> guzzling suv's no matter the cost of gasoline. I
> don't think Americans are willing to give up their
> firearms either no matter the cost of lives.
> Again not taking a pro or anti gun stance. Just
> making an observation.

Honestly, I can't believe that you would:
1. Related firearms to SUV's
2. State that they have both become a part of our CULTURE

I find your statements observant, but totally inaccurate. Firearms, SUV's etc are a CHOICE, not to be confused with "part of the American culture".

CULTURE: the attitudes and behavior that are characteristic of a particular social group or organization

Owning a firearm or SUV is a personal choice people make, and in no way reflects the attitudes and behaviors of the entire group. If it did, there would be no arguments over "hot topics" such as those along with the myriad of others that we argue about day in and day out.

It was only my observation. I do consider America and being an American a culture. Americans certainly have a attitude that is ours alone. I guess there are other countries where almost everyone drives alone in a huge vehicle and there are at least one firearm for every person living here. I just dont know off the top of my head of any.

My point is that Americans will not give up certain things, be it freedom of speech or whatever. I am not saying they are related in that if one owns a firearm they also own an SUV. It was not my intention to connect the two, I could easily have added excess consumption of food as something that can be abused.

As I stated in my post, I understand that it was your observation, and I too consider being an American as being part of a culture. It was obvious that you did not try to relay the fact that anyone who owns a gun also drives a huge car!

I do not understand your statement about other countries, but that is neither here nor there, as it does not validate nor contradict anything in either of our posts. It's just there.


I have a feeling though, that you did not understand the subject of my post. A lot of people use the phrase "American Culture" erroneously, and I was trying to point out that I believe that you had joined the group of people who have done so.

If you would be so kind, and if you reply to this post, please provide what you believe the American Attitudes are that only we have! If you believe that our culture is self centered, selfish and only lives for today, then I would like to debate a little bit about that. If by your post you were inferring other "attitudes" that were not as obvious as those, please let me know what they are.

Thank you



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2007 01:43PM by D2.

Statewide Day of Mourning: Friday, April 20

Governor Timothy M. Kaine has declared Friday, April 20, 2007, a statewide day of mourning for the victims of Monday's tragedy at Virginia Tech.

On Friday, Governor Kaine will participate in an interfaith prayer service in Monroe Park on the campus of Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond. He has encouraged other communities in Virginia and across the nation to hold their own simultaneous ceremonies and participate in prayer services, beginning with the ringing of bells at noon, eastern daylight savings time.

"As our Commonwealth begins the long and difficult healing process, I am filled with images of a Virginia Tech community that is resilient and unified," said Governor Kaine. "I ask that everyone in Virginia pause at noon on Friday to offer prayers of support for the victims, their families, and for all those affected by this tragedy."

The Richmond prayer service will take place at Monroe Park, Belvidere and Main Streets, and will begin at noon eastern daylight savings time.

"Orange and Maroon Effect" Day: Friday, April 20

Wear your orange and maroon tomorrow to honor those killed in the tragic events at Virginia Tech on Monday and to show support for VT students, faculty, administrators, staff, alumni and friends.

NVTC encourages employees at our member companies to wear the VT colors and be a part of the VT family on Friday.

Two Places to Contribute

Virginia Secretary of Technology Aneesh Chopra has informed NVTC about the following two opportunities for interested technology companies and their employees to contribute in support of the Virginia Tech community:

Hokie Spirit Memorial Fund: Virginia Tech has established the fund to aid in the healing process and to generate financial support for grief counseling, memorials, communication expenses, comfort expenses and incidental needs. Contributions can be made online at www.vt.edu/tragedy/memorial_fund.php.

United in Caring Fund for Victims of the Virginia Tech Tragedy: Contributions can be made to this fund, established by the United Way of Montgomery, Radford & Floyd, online at www.unitedwaynrv.org or by mail at UWMFR, P.O. Box 6202, Christiansburg, VA, 24068. Please indicate that the donation should go specifically to this fund. For more information, call (540) 381-2066 or e-mail stephanie@unitedwaynrv.org.

I do believe Americans are self centered and selfish. It is shown by our waste of energy each day. The cost of gasoline is around $5.00 a gallon in most countries yet we demand oil companies keep prices for us at less than $3.00 We do nothing to slow our demand for oil and indeed continue to consume at an alarming rate. We order foreign countires to do something about producing drugs which end up on our streets yet we do little to slow our demand for these same drugs.

I think our image throughout the world is not a good one. If we were a student we would earn an F in gets along and plays well with others.

On the plus side we have many good qualities which others look too and seek to copy.

cw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do believe Americans are self centered and
> selfish. It is shown by our waste of energy each
> day. The cost of gasoline is around $5.00 a gallon
> in most countries yet we demand oil companies keep
> prices for us at less than $3.00 We do nothing to
> slow our demand for oil and indeed continue to
> consume at an alarming rate. We order foreign
> countires to do something about producing drugs
> which end up on our streets yet we do little to
> slow our demand for these same drugs.
>
> I think our image throughout the world is not a
> good one. If we were a student we would earn an F
> in gets along and plays well with others.
>
> On the plus side we have many good qualities which
> others look too and seek to copy.



Dear CW,

So agreed - F in gets along and plays well with others!

So agreed - We have many good qualities which others look to and seek to copy!

So agreed - We are primarily self centered and selfish, and I regret that I think we have been this way from the very beginning.

Settlers taking the land away from those already occupying it.
Settlers killing animals "others" depended on for their only source of food.
Americans believing that slavery was good concept.
Americans believing that the sexes and certain races are not entitled to the quality of life and inherent rights as others.
Americans believing that our morals are the only ones human beings should adhere to.
Americans believing that our government really abides by the Bill of Rights (before you get upset read the Patriot Act if you have not done so already)
Americans believing that our society is based on equality rather than admitting it is CLASS based.

I could go on, but that would only cause hate and discontent in this thread, which is something I do not want to do.

The reality:

I would rather be an American than any other alternative out there, and am proud to live in and support this country and the people who share it with me!

Land of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave

From Fairfax County Schools:

April 19: In observance of the state day of mourning and to allow students and staff the opportunity to attend the school system memorial service, school activities for Friday are canceled. Exceptions have been made for unique events (state debate and district music contests), events where money has been expended (play royalties, charter trips) and unique events. Contact the local school to see if an exception has been made/granted. The events of this week are unique and the school system is trying to be sensitive to a wide range of emotions and personal needs.

Regarding the above post:

EVENING activities have been cancelled, schools will be open tomorrow!

Home of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave!

>
>
> Dear CW,
>
> So agreed - F in gets along and plays well with
> others!
>
> So agreed - We have many good qualities which
> others look to and seek to copy!
>
> So agreed - We are primarily self centered and
> selfish, and I regret that I think we have been
> this way from the very beginning.
>
> Settlers taking the land away from those already
> occupying it.
> Settlers killing animals "others" depended on for
> their only source of food.
> Americans believing that slavery was good
> concept.
> Americans believing that the sexes and certain
> races are not entitled to the quality of life and
> inherent rights as others.
> Americans believing that our morals are the only
> ones human beings should adhere to.
> Americans believing that our government really
> abides by the Bill of Rights (before you get upset
> read the Patriot Act if you have not done so
> already)
> Americans believing that our society is based on
> equality rather than admitting it is CLASS based.
>
> I could go on, but that would only cause hate and
> discontent in this thread, which is something I do
> not want to do.
>
> The reality:
>
> I would rather be an American than any other
> alternative out there, and am proud to live in and
> support this country and the people who share it
> with me!
>
> Land of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave


THes e Concepts are as OLD as humanity itself. Citizens of the United States of America didnt invent them. Ask the Romans, Mongols or any other hoard that stole into someone elses lands took slaves and pillaged raped etc etc. Get over your self hating self

WestOx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> § Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm going to throw this out there because of
> > grammar trends in the above post, but "ferfux"
> =
> > "gravis", perhaps? -§
>
>
> I second this. Totally Same M.O.


BS! Herndon Cutie is Gravis

<Posted by R2

<Get over your self hating self



Dear R2,

I believe you may have a problem reading, or at the very least, a problem with your ability to convert the words into thought. If you do, then I will let the above statement from you slide, but if you do not, than you need to explain exactly what part of my post was SELF HATING! I suggest that in the future, before you post, you re-read what you have written. This way, you will be able to make sure that your posts make sense!

In addition, I never stated that Americans invented "concepts." But again, your post makes no sense. Which of the facts stated in my post was a concept?

Thanks

Home of the Free BECAUSE of the Brave!

D2 Stop arguing semantics and get back to talking about the V-tech shooter. you are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic

Sorry, when I posted I immediately thought this had taken it too far off topic. Agree to get back on track.

This article helps to illustrate my point about the huge gap in gun purchases.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18217741/site/newsweek/

The background check will quickly determine an applicants criminal history but will never reveal their mental history. The applicant only needs to check no as to prior problems with mental health. The medical establishment will never let his personal history out so there is no way the seller can ever know.
Since they were screwed up in the beginning, not too many are going to answer yes since they will automatically be declined a purchase.

Well How about this. We Raise the legal age of Gun Ownership to 25 or 30. You can own a gun younger than that with Sponsorship of a gun owner 25 or 30 or NRA training and approval. The Application for Gun ownership if you are a student means the Gun seller needs to know if you are currently a student whence they Check with said students academic records. Since CHO had complaints against him at Vtech might have been a red flag that oldboy was troubled and shouldnt be sold Weapons of mass murder.

Wow, I'm almost embarrassed to say I agree with something Ferfux said!

I have had a long standing opinion the age of gun ownership needs to be raised to 25. I realize there are some very mature 18-24 year old people. But sadly, the mature ones are rare.

I disagree with sponsorship or NRA training as an alternative. That fuckhead who shot the two cops at Sully had a sponsor, a pot smoking joke of a father who didn't lock his guns up or care what his boy did. Training won't make someone more mature either. I don't know what it is with people these days, but the average early 20's person is just not too bright. The car insurance companies realize this, why can't we as a society?

Given that more people die due to car accidents than wacko shooters, I agree as long as the driving age is raised to the same age so we can solve two "problems" at once.

I am not against personal ownership of a firearm. But with the current system someone like Cho can walk in again and repeat the same thing over and over. I do not think that your right to keep your severe mental problems a secret from everyone should trump your right to buy a gun.
I have no suggestion as to how the system would be set up to prevent this but currently it lacks any connection between being a stark raving lunatic and buying a gun simply by checking a box saying you are not crazy.
This guy was apparently committed to a mental health facility by court order and yet it still did not show up on his application to buy the guns.