just curious if any of you know what happened to that cop who shot the kid at the IHOP for driving his car away

cop got an award and a big fat raise.
i think the parade will be held sometime in the next few weeks.
see you there.

Since when did fairfax undeground become the Fairfax Post?

Although, I think Cary should start an online fairfax newspaper of some kind.

Can anyone confirm? I heard Giuliani is the parade marshal.

Can anyone confirm?

Officer Carl Stowe did not win an award.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2007 11:38PM by TheMeeper.

He moonlites at some pancake joint in Alexandria as a sous chef.

Well, lets put it this way since it was a Farifax County Officer, which of course we all know they stick together, Lie Steal Cheat and Harras People every minute that they can and the innocent get hurt or killed.
This is the last I heard.
He got Put on PROBATION WOW what a Punishment.

Fairfax Can do what they want when they want.
Now why do must people want to be COPS?
CONTROL! They love to control others, but yet they are the biggest Liars, Drug Dealers and Scammers around.
Fairfax needs to really LOOK at their Officers and start making some changes.

I do not know of any other County that is Like Fairfax COPS.
Time to put a BOOT in their ASSES.

Sounds like gizmo got the shit beat out of him by a cop for talking back.. or just talking at all. If I was a cop and I had to listen to that uneducated smarm come out of Gizmo's mouth, I would find a way to use my taser AND nightstick at the same time.

And, I mean, I hate the cops. But I hate slackjawed yokels even more.

Please read the Commonwealth Attorney's report before miss stating the facts.
1. The police officer was from Alexandria not Fairfax County.
2. The incident happened in Alexandria.
3. The teenage driver was not innocent. He tried to run down a police officer with an automobile. This was verified by two [2] independent witnesses and the girl in the back of the Jeep to the responding investigating officers at the scene.
4. The officer still faces depatrment regulation review of his actions but no criminal prosocution.

I won't dispute those facts.... all I point to to make my point are these three things:

1. The officer stepped out in front of the vehicle and he had no reason to do so that a reasonable person would agree with (unless you are saying the driver drove ontot he sidewalk and the officer had nowhere to go.....hmmm)
2. He shot the wrong person in the car, which violates one of the basic rules of firearms use: know your target (the driver) and see whatever is beyond the target. USe the sum of the information when deciding when and where to fire.
3. He did not shoot the driver ever.

A person who cannot follow basic firearms rules has no place in a job that may require the use of the weapon.

I say right now that the cop, had he shot the driver and nobody else, would probably have my basic support despite what he did in item 1 above. Except that we're talking about pancakes here, people.

Hopefully he got free lifetime bennies at all IHOPS, if the punk would of paid it never would of happened

Unlike some people on this site, I do not hold any grudges against the police. However, I still don't understand this shooting.

First, why did the cop put himself in a dangerous situation over an unpaid bill at IHOP? Couldn't he have recorded the license plate number and tracked this back to the owner of the SUV? Or perhaps another cop in the area would catch the SUV if he called it in? I understand that these methods wouldn't guarantee that the kids were caught, but it seems like a safe approach.

Second, once you are in harms way how does shooting at the vehicle help? Even if he had hit the driver, couldn't the vehicle continue driving towards him?

I'm not trying to berate the cop. I really just don't understand why this ended with gunfire. Were the cop's actions based upon policies and procedures?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2007 05:47PM by Genevieve.

WHY IS THE COP SO GAY WHY IS HE A BIG DICK I AM SO TIRED OF THIS THING I WANT HOT GIRLS TO CALL ME JSO WE CAN HAVE SEXY TIME

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paying customer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hopefully he got free lifetime bennies at all
> IHOPS, if the punk would of paid it never would of
> happened


would HAVE paid... would HAVE happened. i'm no zealot when it comes to spelling and grammar, but it's the same error repeated twice that a FUCKING THIRD GRADER wouldn't make. that and your assertion that the kid deserved to be shot leads me to believe you are in fact a cop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2007 01:58PM by stinkypoon.

Genevieve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unlike some people on this site, I do not hold any
> grudges against the police. However, I still
> don't understand this shooting.
>
> First, why did the cop put himself in a dangerous
> situation over an unpaid bill at IHOP? Couldn't
> he have recorded the license plate number and
> tracked this back to the owner of the SUV? Or
> perhaps another cop in the area would catch the
> SUV if he called it in? I understand that these
> methods wouldn't guarantee that the kids were
> caught, but it seems like a safe approach.
>
> Second, once you are in harms way how does
> shooting at the vehicle help? Even if he had hit
> the driver, couldn't the vehicle continue driving
> towards him?
>
> I'm not trying to berate the cop. I really just
> don't understand why this ended with gunfire.
> Were the cop's actions based upon policies and
> procedures?


Props to Gen. A common sense test should be applied to all applicants to the police force.

PS hows your cat? and hows your Honda running?

officers are faced with more life and death situations everyday than any of us know about or the media reports, i have a cousin whos a cop in PA and he tells me about all the stuff that goes on and doesnt get reported in the media.

Yeah, the officer used bad judgement that night, thats a given, he f'ed up, in the heat of the moment he made a bad choice that cost a kid his life, im sure he feels plenty bad about it. I wonder though, how many lives has that officer saved in his career.

Only cops, firefighters, and ppl in the military can appreciate what it means to voluntarily put themselves in harms way for the rest of us. I know most of you scoff at that and are jaded against the popo.

Some cops might go their whole career without ever pulling their gun, some pull it on a weekly basis. Training and training and training can only prepare you so much. Im curious to know how you guys are so interested in getitng better cops on the street... what training and practice would you institute to better determine how someone is going to react in a situation like that?

im not trying to defend him, like i said, he f'ed up, but sometimes the way most of you want to condemn all cops for the actions of few really pisses me off

Genevieve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unlike some people on this site, I do not hold any
> grudges against the police. However, I still
> don't understand this shooting.
>
> First, why did the cop put himself in a dangerous
> situation over an unpaid bill at IHOP? Couldn't
> he have recorded the license plate number and
> tracked this back to the owner of the SUV? Or
> perhaps another cop in the area would catch the
> SUV if he called it in? I understand that these
> methods wouldn't guarantee that the kids were
> caught, but it seems like a safe approach.
>
> Second, once you are in harms way how does
> shooting at the vehicle help? Even if he had hit
> the driver, couldn't the vehicle continue driving
> towards him?
>
> I'm not trying to berate the cop. I really just
> don't understand why this ended with gunfire.
> Were the cop's actions based upon policies and
> procedures?

To address your points, the cop put himself in a dangerous position over an unpaid bill at IHOP because that is what cops do. I assure you the cop didn't say to himself, "When I pursue this kid out of IHOP, I'm going to stand in front of his car." When the cop came out of IHOP and the kid was already leaving, he ran in front of the car and signaled it to stop, just as a cop would do if you were speeding. As with a speeding driver, if the person accelerates and attempts to run the police officer over, deadly force would be appropriate in stopping that threat. Could the officer have recorded the tag number and ask someone else to help? Sure he could have. The officer could have also not come to work that night, or perhaps not even bothered his off-duty assignment with this petty crime. We can "what if" until we are blue in our face, but that is not productive. The officer chose to try and apprehend a criminal and the criminal chose not to be apprehended.

Your second point, why shoot the driver? The kid accelerated toward the officer, which is an overt act to murder the officer. No matter how you spin this story the kid driving had several choices: Stop the car and surrender, stop the car and run away on foot, accelerate and attempt to flee. By accelerating, the kid accepted the fact that if the officer did not move, he would run him over. Newton's laws wouldn't allow for anything different. The officer, who HAD made an attempt to get out of the way and ran into a parked car did the only thing he could do.

Your last point about the shooting based on policy and procedure is where the media ran away. I believe Alexandria policy states officers should avoid shooting at moving motor vehicles. Even if the police department determines an officer violated it's policies in the course of a shooting, the commonwealth's attorney must decide if the shooting was legal, or illegal. For the shooting to be manslaughter or murder, the prosecution would have to prove a GROSS, wilful and wanton disregard for human life. A person who shoots a burglar doesn't get prosecuted for a crime for the same reason the cop didn't get charged with a crime. The person (officer) was in fear for his life and made an attempt to stop the action.

I'm sure many people don't agree with me, but I thank the police for putting themselves on the line every day. When criminals choose to break the law and get caught, they need to take their lumps and stop trying to run over police officers.

BULLSHIT. LEts make up a timeline here:

1. Kids dont pay bill.
2. 1-2 kids go to start car and pull it around to entrance while others stay inside.
3. other kids exit to car. cop is notified of dine n dash.
4. Other kids enter car. car begins to move towards exit of parking lot (opposite side of restaurant)
5.Cop goes out other exit to get to parking lot exit before car.
6. car is heading towards exit about 30 mph.
7. cop sees car heading to exit. cop stands in path of car.
8. Car gains speed (to hop the curb maybe and avoid cop?)
9. cop sees car heading towards him.
10. cop shoots at car.
11. cop sucks at aiming and hits rear seat passenger
12. car drives away.
13. kids dies.

According to newtons laws, an object in motion stays in motion until it is acted upon by an outside force. The object is the car. the outside force is about to be the cop. if the cop shoots the car, even if he killed the driver, the car is gonna keep going as nothing is stopping it. Remember that thing called inertia? 3rd law i think? yehh, even if the engine had somehow got cut off by the cop shooting the driver, the car is gonna keep on coasting. good thinking cop.

Schrute Wrote:
> I'm sure many people don't agree with me,

yes, that's what people do when you are in the wrong.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to newtons laws, an object in motion
> stays in motion until it is acted upon by an
> outside force. The object is the car. the outside
> force is about to be the cop. if the cop shoots
> the car, even if he killed the driver, the car is
> gonna keep going as nothing is stopping it.
> Remember that thing called inertia? 3rd law i
> think? yehh, even if the engine had somehow got
> cut off by the cop shooting the driver, the car is
> gonna keep on coasting. good thinking cop.

Well, at least he prevented a pursuit. If the driver continued to flee from the police and an accident resulted, people like you would blame the police for the pursuit. Sure this outcome was less than ideal, but when people roll the dice as this driver did, they can't expect a perfect outcome -- good thinking driver.

Interesting... perhaps the police should just go ahead and shoot people they pull over the first chance they get, in order to prevent them from taking off and starting a chase.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting... perhaps the police should just go
> ahead and shoot people they pull over the first
> chance they get, in order to prevent them from
> taking off and starting a chase.

What's truly interesting is your cognitive ability... Are you really trying to suggest that the tactics used in a situation like this should not differ from tactics used in more routine situations?

The officer did not shoot somebody for not pulling over -- it was for attempting to murder the officer. The fact that he may have prevented a dangerous pursuit is just another reason that people should respect his actions, and get mad at the driver.

Or, a novel thought, shitheads could just start obeying the law like normal, fucntioning members of society and we wouldn't have to worry about this stuff. But, naw, they can just come to fairfaxunderground and find scumbag apologists who happen to agree with their criminal minds and look for ways out of situations they created on their own.

lord fairfax Wrote:

"Im curious to know how you guys are so interested in getitng better cops on the street... what training and practice would you institute to better determine how someone is going to react in a situation like that?"

First, a citizen has to feel they can report "Bad Cops". The way the system works now, is the cops are untouchable. If you say anything against a cop, he has to power to destroy your life. Any cop will tell you,"Who is the judge going to believe?".
I know we have some great cops in Fairfax County, and we also have some really "Bad Cops" that are on a power trip.

lord fairfax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im curious to know how you
> guys are so interested in getitng better cops on
> the street... what training and practice would you
> institute to better determine how someone is going
> to react in a situation like that?

you could put add video and audio recording to all the cops' radios. if you think that's impossible, consider this:

1. digital cameras are small. they get even smaller the lower the quality.
   
2. current video/audio compression can record over two hours in under 1GB. lower the quality, the longer the time.
   
3. you could easily put 120GB of flash memory (to avoid shock damage when running or something) in the size of an ipod.
   
4. with those numbers, you can get 240 hours of recording, easily two weeks. at the end of which, archive it on tape and wipe the radio units.
   
5. this could prove vital in evidence for cases.
   
6. any complaint can be easily reviewed.

who is reviewing the video is yet another issue but if it was made public upon request from the complainant, that would have to keep them more honest. in the words of the police, "if you have nothing to hide, what are you so afraid of?"


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

cops already carry those little microphones on them, everytime they turn their lights on the mic goes active. Have you ever looked closely at their little batman utility belts, almost all the cops ive ever seen have those recorders on their belts and carry the mic somewhere on their shirt. plus they have the dash cams.

sure recording everything the cops say is going to catch them if they say somehting stupid or racist. but still, how would you train them or prepare them better to react accordingly in that ihop situation. during the application rocess, what is going to determine who is going to bat .1000 as far as life altering situations go?? they are given tons of training and preparation as it is, theres no way to actually predict whos going to do what as a cop, you just have to hope whoever it is that does the hiring does thourogh enough background checks... i mean really, how do you predict, who is going to shoot and who is going to not shoot. What is your criteria for being a good cop??

I do not think that the cop was aiming for the driver or the passenger to begin with. More then anything I would assume he was trying to shoot out the rear tire. If tire is diflated in the rear wheel driver vehicle is more likely to spin out and come to a stop then shooting out a front tire. In my opinion the kid is a dumbass and the popo did what he had to do. Let this be a lesson to all the little pricks who try to steal and cheat .

well, he aimed at least 3 feet too high if he was going for a tire.

The kid was not trying to kill the officer. The officer stepped in front of a moving car. cars can not stop on a dime. even if teh kids had immediatly begun braking (not possible due to reaction time) the car would not have stopped in time. seeing as how the cop did not get hit obviously the kid was not trying to murder him.

If your kids are playing in your front yard, and they run out into the street to get a ball, and a car is there and it runs over your kid, does the driver get charged with murder? hell no, the driver didnt do anything wrong. unless they were speeding.

Acutally, a lot of people would probly sue the driver and win. but anyway.

Who Cares Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not think that the cop was aiming for the
> driver or the passenger to begin with. More then
> anything I would assume he was trying to shoot out
> the rear tire. If tire is diflated in the rear
> wheel driver vehicle is more likely to spin out
> and come to a stop then shooting out a front tire.
> In my opinion the kid is a dumbass and the popo
> did what he had to do. Let this be a lesson to all
> the little pricks who try to steal and cheat .


Shots were fired into the front as the vehicle was approaching, then fired into the side while the vehicle was passing. It was a side shot that ended the life of Aaron Brown.

ya no, shooting the side of teh car would definantly help to stop it. maybe the cop had been watching a few too many movies. shooting the gas tank doesnt actually make the car blow up.

Actually, if the cop had been going for the gas tank, that would be excessive force/murder/dumbass move by cop.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ya no, shooting the side of teh car would
> definantly help to stop it. maybe the cop had been
> watching a few too many movies. shooting the gas
> tank doesnt actually make the car blow up.


you owe me a new car.

"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

hold up, i didnt say the gas tank cant explode, i just said that shooting it wont do it.

they tested this on mythbusters and there have been large discussions about it.

The family and friends of the dead punk like to talk about what a great kid he was, Eagle scout BLa BLA BLA

They leave out that he was a long haired ,druggie with a criminal record. He chose to rebel against society and it came back to bite him on the ass. Run from the police and get shot, sounds good to me. Fuck him, I'm glad he is dead,one less burden on the tax payers.

What was his criminal record again? I'd just like you to spell it out, since I've never been told about his criminal record.

All guys with long hair are into drugs and have criminal records.

Jesus Christ was known for having psychedelic visions and was convicted of a capital crime, so there's an example right there of how right you are, pgens.

It would be kinda cool to re-write the bible with Jesus as a pimpin' drug dealer with a 9mm and a stable of tricks...which I suspect is closer to the real truth than the current text.

I don't know what you are all talking about. I know all about it because I was with them all that night. They are the ones who were at my party in Dumphries. Steve-O who was driving was not at all trying to run the cop over. As a matter of fact the cop started shooting the side of the Jeep and the one bullet almost missed Chris who was in the front seat. They were short on the bill. Most of the money was on the table. Now for Aaron Brown who was killed, you all should have known him and the other guys. They were and are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. But I would like to know more about the Officer and what happened to him.

And one more thing, there were four shots fired in the side of the Jeep and the Officer ran in front and started shooting more shots and Steve-O actually tried to avoid him and that's why he ran into one of the parked cars. And it was a front aimed shot that got Aaron in the chest.

Raz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And one more thing, there were four shots fired in
> the side of the Jeep and the Officer ran in front
> and started shooting more shots and Steve-O
> actually tried to avoid him and that's why he ran
> into one of the parked cars. And it was a front
> aimed shot that got Aaron in the chest.


Read the report before posting crap like this.

"While Stowe began firing as the jeep[sic] came toward him, he continued to fire as the jeep[sic] passed. All the evidence indicates the third shot which hit the vehicle killed Brown, and was fired from a point perpendicular to the driver's side of the jeep[sic] from a short distance."

- Report of Investigation, February 25, 2006 Police Shooting, Deceased: Aaron Brown, Officer: Carl Stowe, Case # 06109452, page 2.

Those little bastards were ALL CRIMINALS when they ran out knowing they were not going to pay. Boo fucking hoo that one was killed. I only wish I was there with my law giver to pass judgement on them. They would all be found guilty and sentenced.

And so many posers on here talking like they know what is going on spouting the cop was from Fairfax when the news clearly and repeatedly told you Alexandria. What a bunch on young punk bitches.

When you dance with the devil.... sometimes you get burned.

regardless, the fact is a teen was killed for something so petty...it was unessesary....im sure its really easy to come on a message board and say good riddence, but i bet it wouldnt if that was your own kid. Hey, teens do some bone head things, doesnt mean they need to be killed for it. Stop trying to hard to be a jackass.

Get your facts straight...

a) it wasn't a Fairfax County Police Officer, it was Alexandria City

b) the "kid" was intentionally driving AT the officer trying to run him over. You'd shoot too!

That was pretty funny, first you said "get you facts straight", and then you fucked up your facts.

The kid who was killed was a passenger. He wasn't driving straight at anyone.

The kids (criminals) were the root cause of all this. If the eagle scout would have paid for his friends when they stiffed the bill he would ba alive now. All the kids invovled had a huge part in their friends death, especially the driver who attempted to elude/evade the officer. If you look at the photos in the report the jeep was traveling at a subsantial rate of spped and that does not leave a lot of time for decison making on the part of the officer. The resulting crash moved several cars!

One of my thoughts is if the jeep continued onto to hit and injure/kill the officer would ther have been this public outcry against the kids. I believe not becuase there has not been the public outcry over the lack of substantial charges against the driver.

SupportdCops,
   so... how is the beach, considering your head is in the sand and all.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Who cares Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get your facts straight...
>
> a) it wasn't a Fairfax County Police Officer, it
> was Alexandria City
>
> b) the "kid" was intentionally driving AT the
> officer trying to run him over. You'd shoot too!

I love how every week the cops always try to get on here explaining what they thinked happened, but always get it screwed up. They must post some bulletin in the Dunkin Doughnuts with what this guy just said. Spread the false lies!!!

and its the same story every time!

IT wasnt us! IT was alexandria!! He tried to run our fellow cop over!! we swear!!! Why wont you believe us!! :(

ya Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who cares Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Get your facts straight...
> >
> > a) it wasn't a Fairfax County Police Officer,
> it
> > was Alexandria City
> >
> > b) the "kid" was intentionally driving AT the
> > officer trying to run him over. You'd shoot
> too!
>
> I love how every week the cops always try to get
> on here explaining what they thinked happened, but
> always get it screwed up. They must post some
> bulletin in the Dunkin Doughnuts with what this
> guy just said. Spread the false lies!!!


As opposed to spreading the true lies!!!

Great movie

I wonder why every one believes every thing police say on these stupid reports. Truth of the matter is those kids were probably scared shitless getting shot at. I somehow strongly doubt that the kids were trying to run this pig over.

My friend was at the IHOP that night and saw what happened.

Theres lots of rumors of what happened. The truth is they didnt pay the bill at all and walked out.

I have talked to one of the guys at that Ihop and they have changed ownership, management and security.

Theres lots of rumors of what happened. The truth is they didnt pay the bill at all and walked out. I have talked to one of the guys at that Ihop and they have changed ownership, management and security.

Well I guess that straightens things out.

Gizmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, lets put it this way since it was a Farifax
> County Officer, which of course we all know they
> stick together, Lie Steal Cheat and Harras People
> every minute that they can and the innocent get
> hurt or killed.
> This is the last I heard.
> He got Put on PROBATION WOW what a Punishment.
>
> Fairfax Can do what they want when they want.
> Now why do must people want to be COPS?
> CONTROL! They love to control others, but yet they
> are the biggest Liars, Drug Dealers and Scammers
> around.
> Fairfax needs to really LOOK at their Officers and
> start making some changes.
>
> I do not know of any other County that is Like
> Fairfax COPS.
> Time to put a BOOT in their ASSES.


You have no idea what your talking about. If you feel this way then your obviously one of the people wanting "control." And if you think that cops can lie, steal, cheat, and harass people all the time, your a fucking retard. First off if you didn't break any laws and wasn't a complete dumbass all the time then police officers wouldn't have any reason to come after you. Laws are put in place for a reason and if you cant obey them because you think your mr hotshot and want to trash on officers doing things to people, think of this...they only do things to people who break laws and are putting other people in danger. Somebody needs to put a boot up your ass.

this is bullshit, i just heard about this story- that cop should be charged with murder- how dare they go around shooting innocent kids, too bad aaron brown seemed like a good american- fuck the fascist government- we need to start firing back

learn to a) pay yr pancake bill and b) READ THE DATES ON THE THREAD, a-hole
Attachments:

Always shoot first at IHOP

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2019/12/21/off-duty-saisd-officer-killed-outside-south-side-ihop-police-say/

alh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this is bullshit, i just heard about this story-
> that cop should be charged with murder- how dare
> they go around shooting innocent kids, too bad
> aaron brown seemed like a good american- fuck the
> fascist government- we need to start firing back


the pig was awarded "pig of the year" by the head hogs years after the IHOP incident

same with the pig who forced the guy who escaped from dahmer back to dahmer's apartment...he got "pig of the year" years later

alh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this is bullshit, i just heard about this story-
> that cop should be charged with murder- how dare
> they go around shooting innocent kids, too bad
> aaron brown seemed like a good american- fuck the
> fascist government- we need to start firing back




Innocent of what??