http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/01/high-tech-guns-digital-revolvers-koosh-bullets-and-triple-tasers/6/

also, a hypothetical question -

If an armed intruder came in my home to steal, and threatened me with a gun, and i shot him, is better to:

A - completely unload the clip into his main body until i am sure he is not getting up, although i know i have probably killed him at bullet 4

B - shoot him twice in the chest and once in head

C - shot him once if he then drops the gun and starts whimpering on the floor

(the legal system interprets each of these differently, although all surrounding evidence and motives are identical)

Clip? You using a M1 Garand? Otherwise you mean a Magazine.

Answer B, and use proper gun control to hit the target.

I believe the term is "whatever force necessary". You also might not
want to empty your "clip" as the intruder may have "friends" you
haven't seen yet.

One round of buckshot to the chest.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

Answer B.

Read the laws to know the proper way to kill someone and not end up in jail. I know the laws and practice my self defense accordingly.

That said, I can get an entire magazine into the guy before he hits the ground. Just need to make sure you have the right equipment and the proper training.

D- put a round in his chest, then stab him with one of those knives that injects a compressed cold gas pellet that balloons to the size of a basketball and
flash-freezes his organs.

Inside my home I'd be using frangible ammo so that I don't shoot through my wall and hit my neighbor's house...that being said, if the guy doesn't run when I announce that I'm armed and they're trespassing I shoot until they're not moving anymore and then I re-load (if necessary) and listen for "friends".

Gonads & Strife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inside my home I'd be using frangible ammo so that
> I don't shoot through my wall and hit my
> neighbor's house...that being said, if the guy
> doesn't run when I announce that I'm armed and
> they're trespassing I shoot until they're not
> moving anymore and then I re-load (if necessary)
> and listen for "friends".


Great point. People dont think about frangible ammo (usually the same people that tell you to use birdshot). You using a rifle for HD?

The correct answer is D - None of the above.

According to the law, you are only justified in using sufficient force to end the threat to your (or an innocent bystander's) life. This means if you end up shooting him once in the foot and he drops his weapon and puts his hands up, you cannot continue shooting. On the other hand, if you've emptied a magazine into him and he's still able to shoot at you (or the innocent bystander), you're fully justified in reloading and continuing to shoot him.

So the true answer is, keep shooting until the threat is over.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> D- put a round in his chest, then stab him with
> one of those knives that injects a compressed cold
> gas pellet that balloons to the size of a
> basketball and
> flash-freezes his organs.

PWN3D!!!!11!!1!!!!1!111!!!!!

Best part is that most people dont carry extra ammo when clearing the house...

One shotgun blast to the chest and all you'll need to worry about is whether or not the blood on the wall is going to leave a stain. Those pesky interpretations of the law will be moot at that point.

__________________________________
That's not a ladybug, that's a cannapiller.

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> D- put a round in his chest, then stab him with
> one of those knives that injects a compressed cold
> gas pellet that balloons to the size of a
> basketball and
> flash-freezes his organs.


Is that from Itchy and Scratchy?

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Is that from Itchy and Scratchy?

LOL, it's from a current thread over in the Off-Topic section:


http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/40/299453.html

It's a actually real knife.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2015 02:12PM by WingNut.

Warhawk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One shotgun blast to the chest and all you'll need
> to worry about is whether or not the blood on the
> wall is going to leave a stain. Those pesky
> interpretations of the law will be moot at that
> point.


This. 1 shot with a 12 gauge at close range won't matter. This is why I keep a mossberg 500 under my bed, that and the buckshot won't fly through the walls too much and kill a neighbor (as it would if I was using a high power rifle).

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2015 10:12AM by WingNut.

Shotgun Defense Systems Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/01/high-tech-
> guns-digital-revolvers-koosh-bullets-and-triple-ta
> sers/6/
>
> also, a hypothetical question -
>
> If an armed intruder came in my home to steal, and
> threatened me with a gun, and i shot him, is
> better to:
>
> A - completely unload the clip into his main body
> until i am sure he is not getting up, although i
> know i have probably killed him at bullet 4
>
> B - shoot him twice in the chest and once in head
>
> C - shot him once if he then drops the gun and
> starts whimpering on the floor
>
> (the legal system interprets each of these
> differently, although all surrounding evidence and
> motives are identical)


Not nearly as effective as this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c



Happiness is a warm gun

Shotgun Defense Systems Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> also, a hypothetical question -
>
> If an armed intruder came in my home to steal, and
> threatened me with a gun, and i shot him, is
> better to:
>
> A - completely unload the clip into his main body
> until i am sure he is not getting up, although i
> know i have probably killed him at bullet 4
>
> B - shoot him twice in the chest and once in head
>
> C - shot him once if he then drops the gun and
> starts whimpering on the floor
>
> (the legal system interprets each of these
> differently, although all surrounding evidence and
> motives are identical)


It depends. Do you want to be charged with manslaughter or second degree murder?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

mcsmack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Not nearly as effective as this
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c
>
>
>
> Happiness is a warm gun


I can understand going automatic. But this seems like a huge waste of ammunition.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Hand guns are for pussy's.

Lawmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hand guns are for pussy's.



First of all, "handguns" is just one word.

Second, it's "pussies."

WashingTone-Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mcsmack Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> >
> > Not nearly as effective as this
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ebtj1jR7c
> >
> >
> >
> > Happiness is a warm gun


>
>
> I can understand going automatic. But this seems
> like a huge waste of ammunition.


Haven't priced a box of the "Frag-12" grenade rounds at Bass Pro yet but I'm sure it will set you back a bit



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2010 03:45PM by mcsmack.

Shotgun Defense Systems Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/01/high-tech-
> guns-digital-revolvers-koosh-bullets-and-triple-ta
> sers/6/
>

Less than lethal rounds are really only good against people who are not armed with firearms. Basically, people who are throwing rocks, bottles (i.e., protesters, hooligans, ruffians, thugs, etc). And maybe a drunk guy wildly waiving around a kitchen knife in the street.

To use such a round for home or self defense is insanity. You have to assume that someone coming into an occupied dwelling is prepared to do you serious harm, and has brought along the tools to do so. Do they have a gun? Are they stronger than me? Are they on some performance enhancing drug (like PCP)? Too many questions that have to be answered in a split second. If you were allowed the freedom of reviewing the intruder's weapons and motives, you might want to use a less than lethal weapon. However, since this never happens in real life, the only real option is to use lethal force.

A real man would go hand to hand knife combat, old style Daniel Boone.

.
Attachments:

Jessterr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A real man would go hand to hand knife combat, old
> style Daniel Boone.

If we were talking about a bar fight, I might agree with you. If someone breaks into my house, all I'm concerned about is being alive at the end of the confrontation. As such, I want the fight to be as unfair as legally possible. That kinda rules out hand to hand combat.

Make sure the intruder is dead. Only one story to tell to the police.

This is what you do with intruders-

Until Virginia has a good (read: REAL good) castle doctrine there's no way I'm using plastic/rubber bullets for home defense even if they are shown to have any stopping power at all. If I shoot an intruder and one of those pieces flies into his eye I can be sued civilly for injuring him. I'm with the "one shot from my 12 gauge" poster until then.

And to the poster who said no one ever thinks about frangible ammo inside home structures that isn't quite true, firearm safety courses which one may take to qualify for the CCP talk about that. But the point is taken, you don't want to use ammunition that may enter someone else's house or exit your house and hit someone outside while using a firearm for defense in a tense situation.

By the way, those A-B-C answers aren't entirely correct, when shooting someone you are supposed to aim for center mass... there is no relying on some plan to aim twice for chest and one for head and fancy shots. Center mass until the intruder goes down is what you are supposed to do, head shots aren't as easy in real life as they are on the XBox.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2010 05:34PM by pgens.

Obvious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shotgun Defense Systems Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/01/high-tech-
>
> >
> guns-digital-revolvers-koosh-bullets-and-triple-ta
>
> > sers/6/
> >
>
> Less than lethal rounds are really only good
> against people who are not armed with firearms.
> Basically, people who are throwing rocks, bottles
> (i.e., protesters, hooligans, ruffians, thugs,
> etc). And maybe a drunk guy wildly waiving around
> a kitchen knife in the street.
>
> To use such a round for home or self defense is
> insanity. You have to assume that someone coming
> into an occupied dwelling is prepared to do you
> serious harm, and has brought along the tools to
> do so. Do they have a gun? Are they stronger
> than me? Are they on some performance enhancing
> drug (like PCP)? Too many questions that have to
> be answered in a split second. If you were
> allowed the freedom of reviewing the intruder's
> weapons and motives, you might want to use a less
> than lethal weapon. However, since this never
> happens in real life, the only real option is to
> use lethal force.




Your right. Stats show a knife wielding Intruder/attacker has an 85+ % success rate. This is even after being shot. If your serious about self preservation "stopping power" is essential for survival.

I use the Mossberg 930-SPX with the TLR-1 tactical light w side plate & remote.The TLR is an aluminum bodied LED tactical light that uses 2 of the common 3V 123 cells. It is pretty much a zero-maintenance unit that only requires the replacement of batteries. It is dust-, shock-, and waterproof. The lens is glass, and has a pretty tight blue-white beam with a substantial amount of peripheral illumination as well.

I keep 1 Federal '00' buck round in the chamber with 1 behind that then 2 slugs backing those. The gun holds 8 total so I load 2 more 00 buck then 2 more slugs.

This allows neutralization of more than one target quickly if needed.

This weapon is great for close range contact and can drop an intruder dead on the spot. Especially if you hit the vitals. It can blow the heart and all the adrenalin pumping through it clean out. A slug shot to the head would eliminate the open casket option.

This is the one gun I own I hope to never have to use



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2010 05:52PM by mcsmack.

A 12 gauge shotgun is the ultimate home defense weapon....BUT you've gotta watch the shotgun load.

As far as using 00 buckshot, that's great if you live in a free standing house. If you miss your target, that buckshot can go right through the walls, which is dangerous and can make you liable if you live in an apartment. Birdshot is not recommended as a defense load, but even partition walls can stop it. Birdshot is advisable if you live in an apartment or condo complex.

As far as using slugs, bad idea. Slugs can over-penetrate, which negates any stopping power (same problem with 9mm.) You also get the wall penetrating problem you have with buckshot. As Pgens said, you have a better chance of head shots in a first person shooter than you do in the real world.

Also, don't rely on a double barrel/break action shotgun for self-defense. Get a pump action. Some people prefer autoloading shotguns, but they can be picky about the ammo they feed reliably.

Links:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm

http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/05/10/pros-and-cons-of-using-birdshot-for-self-defense/

http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/03/30/selecting-a-gun-for-home-defense/

I've got light load bird shot in my 12 gauge, and I live in an apartment. Almost every conceivable engagement distance is less than 6 feet. An ounce of high-velocity lead at that range is going to do what it does regardless of how many pieces it's in.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A 12 gauge shotgun is the ultimate home defense
> weapon....BUT you've gotta watch the shotgun load.
>
>
> As far as using 00 buckshot, that's great if you
> live in a free standing house. If you miss your
> target, that buckshot can go right through the
> walls, which is dangerous and can make you liable
> if you live in an apartment. Birdshot is not
> recommended as a defense load, but even partition
> walls can stop it. Birdshot is advisable if you
> live in an apartment or condo complex.
>
> As far as using slugs, bad idea. Slugs can
> over-penetrate, which negates any stopping power
> (same problem with 9mm.) You also get the wall
> penetrating problem you have with buckshot. As
> Pgens said, you have a better chance of head shots
> in a first person shooter than you do in the real
> world.
>
> Also, don't rely on a double barrel/break action
> shotgun for self-defense. Get a pump action. Some
> people prefer autoloading shotguns, but they can
> be picky about the ammo they feed reliably.
>
> Links:
>
> http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_amm
> o.htm
>
> http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/05/10/pros-and-
> cons-of-using-birdshot-for-self-defense/
>
> http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2008/03/30/selecting
> -a-gun-for-home-defense/


All good advice. Isn't this fun? Talkin' bout guns n' killin' bad guys?

It helps to have a little practice and training which is fun to. Most encounters with attackers are 15' and in. One of the things about having the light on the M930-SPX is it almost acts like a laser while rendering the intruder somewhat stunned and blinded.You can close the remote switch lighting the target and shoot almost simultaneously. The target is well illuminated at that range. The projectile pattern is app 10" and velocity shouldn't be a problem if the target is acquired. If your hitting the guys head with the beam while firing it's going to come off



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2010 07:08PM by mcsmack.

http://www.dirtybutton.com/videos/2586-snl-shooting/