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Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
Keep Taxes Low!
()
Date: September 28, 2018 06:13PM
Don't let bullshit scare tactics win . Despite all the circus that comes with Trump, we are seeing unprecedented growth, record unemployment and serious gains for the middle class. Every American is doing better.
Don't derail this success to please the party of unfullfilled promises and false hope. You may dislike Trump, but America has prospered.
There is no way we should turn back.
Don't derail this success to please the party of unfullfilled promises and false hope. You may dislike Trump, but America has prospered.
There is no way we should turn back.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
Get real...
()
Date: September 28, 2018 06:33PM
Trump is 0% responsible for the state of the economy. It was eight years of Obama and the Fed that got us here.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
Author Field
()
Date: September 28, 2018 06:35PM
I am middle class. Donald Trump and the Republicans raised my taxes to pay for his tax cuts for the wealthy.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
Diehard Lib
()
Date: September 30, 2018 07:41AM
I hate that Trump is making America great again. I liked it better when Obama was destroying America while leading from behind.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
xp4fw
()
Date: September 30, 2018 07:44PM
Listen up dumb ass. Democrats are building homes with 3 and 4 car garages.
Jennifer Wexton is NOT planning to raise tax on government workers (obama's "middle class")
She's planning on taxing the poor and anyone "NOT IN THE LOOP" - stray republicans, businesses, etc.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
lufud
()
Date: September 30, 2018 07:48PM
NEW taxes: gas, cigarettes, alcohol, grocery store leases
NO taxes: many government workers pay NO VEHICLE TAX, check fx co gov website and see the long list of exceptions to the rule. they are getting pay raises
it's not a middle class she intends it to be a ruling class with her as Queen
NO taxes: many government workers pay NO VEHICLE TAX, check fx co gov website and see the long list of exceptions to the rule. they are getting pay raises
it's not a middle class she intends it to be a ruling class with her as Queen
OFF WITH HER HEAD
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
yultp
()
Date: September 30, 2018 07:55PM
Democrats don't give out the services. Allot of it is held back and goes toward pay raises.
It's all a scam: taking your money, promising to give it back.
It's all a scam: taking your money, promising to give it back.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
I call b.s
()
Date: September 30, 2018 09:36PM
Author Field Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am middle class. Donald Trump and the
> Republicans raised my taxes to pay for his tax
> cuts for the wealthy.
How so? I don't see many scenarios where a middle class income would be paying more under the new tax changes.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am middle class. Donald Trump and the
> Republicans raised my taxes to pay for his tax
> cuts for the wealthy.
How so? I don't see many scenarios where a middle class income would be paying more under the new tax changes.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
the scenarios
()
Date: October 01, 2018 12:06AM
I call b.s Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Author Field Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am middle class. Donald Trump and the
> > Republicans raised my taxes to pay for his tax
> > cuts for the wealthy.
>
>
> How so? I don't see many scenarios where a middle
> class income would be paying more under the new
> tax changes.
There are a few scenarios where a household would wind up paying higher taxes.
1) The $10k SALT cap. This is a big one. A family of two income earners making $150k a year is still middle class, especially if daycare bill(s) are in play to make the second paycheck happen. So maybe around $8k in state income taxes here in Virginia. That means if your property taxes are around $5k (about a $500k house), then you've just lost a $3k deduction right there. That's probably about $810 to $1k in additional taxes on that point alone. The pain of course is way way higher in New York and New Jersey.
This also is made more painful if someone has a vacation home. Yes, middle class people do have them! If your property tax bill on one is say $3,000, and you've already hit your $10k SALT cap elsewhere, ouch!
2) Loss of dependent exemptions. It used to be, if you had a dependent in your household, you could deduct $4,050. This could include a child, elderly parent, etc... That's now gone. The child tax credit fills this hole a bit with a doubled amount to $2k and a higher applicability cap, but the credit only goes to age 16. Have two college aged kids? You just lost a $8,100 exemption. There's a $500 dependent credit for non-children, but if you're in the 22% tax bracket, you're trading an effective $891 savings via exception for a $500 credit. Two dependent college kids, that's about $782 in additional taxes.
3) Moving for a new job. You used to be able to deduct that expense, which can easily be a couple thousand dollars (packing materials, truck rental, motel stays, gasoline). That deduction is history.
Overall the tax rates slid a little lower, and most individuals do see some tax savings. But there are plenty of middle class people, especially in states with high SALT amounts, that will be paying more.
But if you're in a low tax state, are married, and don't own your house, lower rates and a much higher standard deduction probably has done you a solid. At least until the bill comes due on the national debt.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Author Field Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am middle class. Donald Trump and the
> > Republicans raised my taxes to pay for his tax
> > cuts for the wealthy.
>
>
> How so? I don't see many scenarios where a middle
> class income would be paying more under the new
> tax changes.
There are a few scenarios where a household would wind up paying higher taxes.
1) The $10k SALT cap. This is a big one. A family of two income earners making $150k a year is still middle class, especially if daycare bill(s) are in play to make the second paycheck happen. So maybe around $8k in state income taxes here in Virginia. That means if your property taxes are around $5k (about a $500k house), then you've just lost a $3k deduction right there. That's probably about $810 to $1k in additional taxes on that point alone. The pain of course is way way higher in New York and New Jersey.
This also is made more painful if someone has a vacation home. Yes, middle class people do have them! If your property tax bill on one is say $3,000, and you've already hit your $10k SALT cap elsewhere, ouch!
2) Loss of dependent exemptions. It used to be, if you had a dependent in your household, you could deduct $4,050. This could include a child, elderly parent, etc... That's now gone. The child tax credit fills this hole a bit with a doubled amount to $2k and a higher applicability cap, but the credit only goes to age 16. Have two college aged kids? You just lost a $8,100 exemption. There's a $500 dependent credit for non-children, but if you're in the 22% tax bracket, you're trading an effective $891 savings via exception for a $500 credit. Two dependent college kids, that's about $782 in additional taxes.
3) Moving for a new job. You used to be able to deduct that expense, which can easily be a couple thousand dollars (packing materials, truck rental, motel stays, gasoline). That deduction is history.
Overall the tax rates slid a little lower, and most individuals do see some tax savings. But there are plenty of middle class people, especially in states with high SALT amounts, that will be paying more.
But if you're in a low tax state, are married, and don't own your house, lower rates and a much higher standard deduction probably has done you a solid. At least until the bill comes due on the national debt.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
the scenarios
()
Date: October 01, 2018 12:30AM
Also, this has more to do with the states' tax codes, but for states like Virginia, if you take the standard deduction at the federal level, then you have to at the state level.
This can screw you a bit, as if you're a middle class married household in say a $350k townhouse, you might have been itemizing $26k and with the SALT changes, are now captured by the standard deduction of $24k. Generous at the federal level, but now instead of deducting $26k at the state level, you're deducting only $6k via Virginia's standard deduction. $20k * 0.0575 is another $1,150 pinch, this time in the form of higher state taxes.
This can screw you a bit, as if you're a middle class married household in say a $350k townhouse, you might have been itemizing $26k and with the SALT changes, are now captured by the standard deduction of $24k. Generous at the federal level, but now instead of deducting $26k at the state level, you're deducting only $6k via Virginia's standard deduction. $20k * 0.0575 is another $1,150 pinch, this time in the form of higher state taxes.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
kinda rich people problems
()
Date: October 01, 2018 01:07AM
May not feel like it around here but $150K isn't really "middle class" based on taxpayer incomes.
Median US household income is around $61K.
$138K puts you in the top 10% of all returns filed. Only about 14 million file at or above that level out of 141.2 million total taxpayers.
$196K puts you in the top 5% with about 7 million filing at or above that level.
The top 1% break point is $481K with about 1.4 million.
At the other end there are about 70 million returns at $38K-$80K and about 35 million from $80K-$138. Plus another 70 million below $38K.
Median US household income is around $61K.
$138K puts you in the top 10% of all returns filed. Only about 14 million file at or above that level out of 141.2 million total taxpayers.
$196K puts you in the top 5% with about 7 million filing at or above that level.
The top 1% break point is $481K with about 1.4 million.
At the other end there are about 70 million returns at $38K-$80K and about 35 million from $80K-$138. Plus another 70 million below $38K.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
the scenarios
()
Date: October 01, 2018 02:29AM
Fair enough and thanks for coming back with numbers. I'd say $150k in the DC area is middle class, albeit certainly in the upper middle spectrum. Two daycare bills can easily knock that down to $116k, and prices for non-luxury homes are pretty high. Simply put, a middle class lifestyle here isn't cheap if you need to raise, educate, feed, and shelter kids.
This is simply the Trump revenge. He's not a fan of urban/suburban working professionals in the upper middle class enjoying tastes of the rich lifestyle he feels are sanctioned only for the truly rich. So the tax bill hurts taxpayers with professionally high incomes but also high expense structures. Admittedly, I got a little bit of a kick out of overextended luxury home owners lined up to prepay their 2018 property tax bills last December. Didn't pan out.
But to your point, can the classical median income middle class family feel the pinch. Yeah, there's still a few ways.
The inflation calculation adjustment for the standard deduction is being hooked to a less generation generous index. Chained CPI (C-CPI) isn't as generous as the Consumer Price Index (CPI). Ultimately, that'll make people pay more, especially the middle of the middle class, who probably will be taking standard deductions. It's a ticking time bomb that hurts the middle class much more than the wealthy.
Middle class individuals also sometimes need to move for new work; the deduction for that is history.
But in the end, the real con is the rich made out like bandits with the new tax bill, and the government debt load is just piling up. That will place stresses on Social Security and Medicare, two programs the middle class depend on at retirement. Ultimately, I think the middle class will be the losers here; the upcoming cuts to social security will wipe out any small tax cut gains.
kinda rich people problems Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> May not feel like it around here but $150K isn't
> really "middle class" based on taxpayer incomes.
>
> Median US household income is around $61K.
>
> $138K puts you in the top 10% of all returns
> filed. Only about 14 million file at or above
> that level out of 141.2 million total taxpayers.
>
> $196K puts you in the top 5% with about 7 million
> filing at or above that level.
>
> The top 1% break point is $481K with about 1.4
> million.
>
> At the other end there are about 70 million
> returns at $38K-$80K and about 35 million from
> $80K-$138. Plus another 70 million below $38K.
This is simply the Trump revenge. He's not a fan of urban/suburban working professionals in the upper middle class enjoying tastes of the rich lifestyle he feels are sanctioned only for the truly rich. So the tax bill hurts taxpayers with professionally high incomes but also high expense structures. Admittedly, I got a little bit of a kick out of overextended luxury home owners lined up to prepay their 2018 property tax bills last December. Didn't pan out.
But to your point, can the classical median income middle class family feel the pinch. Yeah, there's still a few ways.
The inflation calculation adjustment for the standard deduction is being hooked to a less generation generous index. Chained CPI (C-CPI) isn't as generous as the Consumer Price Index (CPI). Ultimately, that'll make people pay more, especially the middle of the middle class, who probably will be taking standard deductions. It's a ticking time bomb that hurts the middle class much more than the wealthy.
Middle class individuals also sometimes need to move for new work; the deduction for that is history.
But in the end, the real con is the rich made out like bandits with the new tax bill, and the government debt load is just piling up. That will place stresses on Social Security and Medicare, two programs the middle class depend on at retirement. Ultimately, I think the middle class will be the losers here; the upcoming cuts to social security will wipe out any small tax cut gains.
kinda rich people problems Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> May not feel like it around here but $150K isn't
> really "middle class" based on taxpayer incomes.
>
> Median US household income is around $61K.
>
> $138K puts you in the top 10% of all returns
> filed. Only about 14 million file at or above
> that level out of 141.2 million total taxpayers.
>
> $196K puts you in the top 5% with about 7 million
> filing at or above that level.
>
> The top 1% break point is $481K with about 1.4
> million.
>
> At the other end there are about 70 million
> returns at $38K-$80K and about 35 million from
> $80K-$138. Plus another 70 million below $38K.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
Definitions
()
Date: October 01, 2018 02:10PM
Middle class traditionally has not meant median income. New Deal reforms coupled with post WW2 prosperity moved enough 'working class' families into the middle class so that median family income became high enough to support a middle class standard of living. As income inequality has grown there are fewer working class or even professionals who are able to afford a middle class lifestyle.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
The scenarios
()
Date: October 02, 2018 09:21AM
It definitely depends on your definition of "middle class lifestyle". One could argue a middle class lifestyle is:
- air conditioned living space
- access to fresh food
- clean water and electricity
- access to at least on motor vehicle
- K-12 schooling for the kids
- mobile phone /internet
- reasonable work hours (under 50 per adult)
That actually covers a large segment of people, and generally that's a good lifestyle.
I'd argue what is being chipped away are the safety nets and benefits folks used to have. Health insurance is through the roof cost wise (ACA helps there a bit), pensions have largely been replaced with self service plans, college costs arw higher due to lack of public investment, etc...
People get into trouble when they begin to think a middle class lifestyle means buying a $35k car new, or going out to eat four times a week.
Definitions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Middle class traditionally has not meant median
> income. New Deal reforms coupled with post WW2
> prosperity moved enough 'working class' families
> into the middle class so that median family income
> became high enough to support a middle class
> standard of living. As income inequality has
> grown there are fewer working class or even
> professionals who are able to afford a middle
> class lifestyle.
- air conditioned living space
- access to fresh food
- clean water and electricity
- access to at least on motor vehicle
- K-12 schooling for the kids
- mobile phone /internet
- reasonable work hours (under 50 per adult)
That actually covers a large segment of people, and generally that's a good lifestyle.
I'd argue what is being chipped away are the safety nets and benefits folks used to have. Health insurance is through the roof cost wise (ACA helps there a bit), pensions have largely been replaced with self service plans, college costs arw higher due to lack of public investment, etc...
People get into trouble when they begin to think a middle class lifestyle means buying a $35k car new, or going out to eat four times a week.
Definitions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Middle class traditionally has not meant median
> income. New Deal reforms coupled with post WW2
> prosperity moved enough 'working class' families
> into the middle class so that median family income
> became high enough to support a middle class
> standard of living. As income inequality has
> grown there are fewer working class or even
> professionals who are able to afford a middle
> class lifestyle.
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
Blue Collar
()
Date: October 03, 2018 09:10AM
I asked a liberal how much I should pay in taxes. The answer: "More, more, more!"
Re: Don't let Democrats raise middle class taxes! Keep this economy booming, vote in November!
Posted by:
Yo, numb-nuts...
()
Date: October 03, 2018 10:30AM
^^^ What you need more of is education. At present, you are just a hopeless dumbfuck. Of course, education costs money, but hey, if you think education is expensive, try being stupid. Oh wait...