Ok, So I'm comming to a Tee in the road, and as I approach I see the light turn yellow. I casually make the left turn, as stopping wouldn't have been possible w/o slamming on the brakes. Immediately I see blue and red lights.

According to the police officer, I had "cleared southbound, but not yet cleared northbound when his light had turned green". He wrote me a ticket, and unfortunately for him his lights were off the whole time and I called my little sister and told her to run and get a picture.

What kind of defense can I use for this? It's not only 100 plus 57 for court costs, my insurance will go up as well. I need to get off of this, not only because of financial situation but more importantly because it's a bullshit ticket.

I will post pics soon

I'd have to say there's almost no defense that you can use, based on my experience. Unless you have some incontrovertible evidence otherwise, what the cop *says he saw* will be taken as the absolute truth by the judge.

Either you can plead "No lo contesto" and try to dispute what the cop says, or you can plead guilty and throw yourself upon the mercy of the court. Hopefully you have a clean driving record.

or he could hire a lawyer for a prohibitive amount of money, and use the procedural flaws in the stop to have the ticket tossed. one of the reasons these procedures are followed to a T is because people need to know they are being stopped by legit cops. One way to spot a phony cop is by looking at his procedural actions.

it's worked for me before but I got lucky that time... I knew the lawyer and she didn't make me pay for various reasons.

You can't be prosecuted by a dead police officer. :P


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
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> You can't be prosecuted by a dead police officer.
> :P
>
> unfairfax adaptivetime com

Not funny dickhead.

You know, yellow means slow down and prepare to stop. If you would have had to slam on your brakes, that means you were going to fast in the first place. Just pay the ticket or go to court and tell the judge the same patheitc story. Then pay the ticket. Most judges will also ask you, why couldn't you stop in time when you saw the yellow? If you say, i would have to slam on my brakes,the judge will say then you must have been going to fast!

> You can't be prosecuted by a dead police officer. :P

Or one that has quit the force. I found that out by luck :)

No see that's the thing, I was going 37 in a 35, I could have slammed on my brakes, but it was a little wet still, plus there really was no need. I proceeded through the intersection TAKING IT SLOW AND SAFE

The Economist Wrote:
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> No see that's the thing, I was going 37 in a 35, I
> could have slammed on my brakes, but it was a
> little wet still, plus there really was no need. I
> proceeded through the intersection TAKING IT SLOW
> AND SAFE


If the road was wet, you should have been driving more appropriately for the conditions. You can't win arguments with police officers and judges.

There are a few ways that you can win this fight...

First of all, don't just pay the ticket, go to court. If the officer is not there you will be able to get off from the charges. All you'll have to pay is court fees.

Second, if you have a good record already. If you have a very good record right now and if you can get a copy of that record from the DMV bring it with you to court. Show up to court early and when the Assistant DA calls everyone's name before hand (like taking attendance) go up and show them your record. Tell them that you are a good driver with a really good record and made a judement decision. Try to BRIEFLY describe what happened if they let you. Don't try to say you were right...because they don't want to hear it. Just say that you know what's right and wrong, and made the best decision you could at that time. A few of my friends have got away scott free with this. Just had to pay court fines.

And I just wanted to say to SWweeman sometimes even when the light turns yellow and you are driving at the proper speed, it's a better decision to gun it rather than slam on your breaks. You don't know all the facts so I wouldn't judge so quickly. Sometimes, it's impossible to stop at yellow even if you go at the proper speeds. Sometimes there are tailgaters on your ass and you don't want to cause an accident. Whatever the case, it's hard to say if you aren't there.

um

lead driver doesn't CAUSE an accident with a tailgater in that situation

the tailgater is the cause of the accident.

rstidman Wrote:
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> um
>
> lead driver doesn't CAUSE an accident with a
> tailgater in that situation
>
> the tailgater is the cause of the accident.


Agreed, but if the lead driver doesn't want to be involved in an accident, they try to be a defensive driver. For instance, if I'm driving my brand new BMW down the road and see a 1980 Fiat tailgating my ass, I'm probably not going to slam on my brakes because I know the gimp ass behind me doesn't have any ABS, and intelligence to stop in time...furthermore if he's driving that gimpy ass Fiat with no insurance, than chances are he won't be able to pay for the damage anyways, and you're screwed...this is all hypothetical of course. My point is, it's always best to avoid an accident if you can, even if it's not you're fault if there is one.

asnpcwiz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are a few ways that you can win this
> fight...
>
> First of all, don't just pay the ticket, go to
> court. If the officer is not there you will be
> able to get off from the charges. All you'll have
> to pay is court fees.
>
> Second, if you have a good record already. If you
> have a very good record right now and if you can
> get a copy of that record from the DMV bring it
> with you to court. Show up to court early and
> when the Assistant DA calls everyone's name before
> hand (like taking attendance) go up and show them
> your record. Tell them that you are a good driver
> with a really good record and made a judement
> decision. Try to BRIEFLY describe what happened
> if they let you. Don't try to say you were
> right...because they don't want to hear it. Just
> say that you know what's right and wrong, and made
> the best decision you could at that time. A few
> of my friends have got away scott free with this.
> Just had to pay court fines.
>
> And I just wanted to say to SWweeman sometimes
> even when the light turns yellow and you are
> driving at the proper speed, it's a better
> decision to gun it rather than slam on your
> breaks. You don't know all the facts so I
> wouldn't judge so quickly. Sometimes, it's
> impossible to stop at yellow even if you go at the
> proper speeds. Sometimes there are tailgaters on
> your ass and you don't want to cause an accident.
> Whatever the case, it's hard to say if you aren't
> there.

I undertand your last comment, but the courts won't see it that way, even if he paints a Picasso to the judge. What if's don't work on all of the judges in Fairfax. and good luck with talking to the commonwealth attorney, some of them only talk to attorney's representing folks. They may help you, but odds are not in your favor in Fairfax.

As I quoted the VA code in my earlier post, the state has to prove all elements of the crime. They have to prove it was not reasonably safe. You dont have to prove that it was unless they make a prima facie case that you were unsafe. Any other outcome is appealable. If he says you were already in the intersection it is on the cop to somehow prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that it was not safe for you to enter the intersection. They have to go first and if all he says is that you hadn't cleared by the time his turned green, immediately move for a dismissal.

this is all the proof a cop needs to get you convicted: "yeah... that's the guy, he did it." justice is served like prison food in fairfax, you feel like you are in prison. ^^


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Ben and Gravis are correct. If he says you did it, you will be very lucky to get out scott free in Fairfax County, especially without a lawyer. Quoting the VA code is one thing, but if you've been to Fairfax General District Court more than once, you'll see how one-sided it is.

It's probably worth it to show up in court and to hope the cop doesn't show, but the odds aren't very high. Most of the cops have 1 court date a month and schedule all of their cases on that day. If you try to reschedule your date to a different day, they'll move it to his next court date. You can try to drag it out for a long time by appealing and fighting it, but you if you spend even 5-10 hours doing this, you've already spent more time than the money is worth.

The is no justice system in Fairfax, just police and a court system. The rest of it is pure bullshit.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

One angle you can approach is to time the yellow light and compare it to local/state/national standards for traffic light timing. If the timing is off, you may be able to use it in support for your case. Bottom line (I have been there-done that), it is your word against the officer if you ran the yellow/red light.

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No see that's the thing, I was going 37 in a 35, I
> could have slammed on my brakes, but it was a
> little wet still, plus there really was no need. I
> proceeded through the intersection TAKING IT SLOW
> AND SAFE


Look man- WE are the government, WE print the money, WE control the police and the courts as well as the jails and prisons. Just do what you are told without questions and try to enjoy the freedoms that WE let you have.

signed, BHO

Still waiting on the pictures.... It's
been
five fucking years

having been to court for this myself in the past, your defense should be:

"The light turned yellow as I ENTERED THE INTERSECTION" I was already committed to the turn and felt that if I had applied my brakes, I would not have done it in a safe manner and I was afraid of causing an accident.

The important statement by LAW is that you were already in the intersection AS the light turned yellow, not before you entered it.

just my advice.........

help Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> having been to court for this myself in the past,
> your defense should be:
>
> "The light turned yellow as I ENTERED THE
> INTERSECTION" I was already committed to the turn
> and felt that if I had applied my brakes, I would
> not have done it in a safe manner and I was afraid
> of causing an accident.
>
> The important statement by LAW is that you were
> already in the intersection AS the light turned
> yellow, not before you entered it.
>
> just my advice.........


the OP was 4 years 10 months ago. This guy could be in jail or dead by now for all we frickin know.

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§ 46.2-833. Traffic lights; penalty.

A. Signals by traffic lights shall be as follows:

Steady red indicates that moving traffic shall stop and remain stopped as long as the red signal is shown, except in the direction indicated by a lighted green arrow.

Green indicates the traffic shall move in the direction of the signal and remain in motion as long as the green signal is given, except that such traffic shall yield to other vehicles and pedestrians lawfully within the intersection.

Steady amber indicates that a change is about to be made in the direction of the moving of traffic. When the amber signal is shown, traffic which has not already entered the intersection, including the crosswalks, shall stop if it is not reasonably safe to continue, but traffic which has already entered the intersection shall continue to move until the intersection has been cleared. The amber signal is a warning that the steady red signal is imminent.

Flashing red indicates that traffic shall stop before entering an intersection.

Flashing amber indicates that traffic may proceed through the intersection or past such signal with reasonable care under the circumstances.


~~~~~the part about shall stop if it is not reasonably safe to continue leaves some room open to argue

don't listen to Gravis, he got a beat down from a female GMU cop and has been scared since.....wahhhhhhhh

johnnye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > You can't be prosecuted by a dead police
> officer. :P
>
> Or one that has quit the force. I found that out
> by luck :)

OR one that doesn't show up in court. :)