ALL the fanbois are such frauds Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Asshole...'s Urban Sombrero Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is no "spread" for the people catching
> > random incidental halibut who in your next-day
> 4am
> > delivery fantasy are running a day boat or
> > otherwise just to catch one fish to rush back
> to
> > the dock to drive it to the airport to jet it
> to
> > your dumb ass all for $6/lb. Dumbass.
>
> Once again for the truly stupid, the spread is
> between what a restaurant owner needs to pay a
> distributor per portion of a product and what he
> can then turn around and charge his customer for
> that same portion. As the spread increases (as it
> recently did for FRESH Atlantic halibut), so does
> the likelihood of a product appearing on the menu.
>
None of which again changes that nobody fishing is going to run their boat and crew to "work one line" to catch one fish and otherwise bust their ass at their expense to get 4 oz. to you within 10 hours for the $6/lb after heading and gutting that they get out of it. Sorry douche bag.
>
> It is meanwhile a complex of different factors
> that determines short-term economic return to the
> seafaring elements in the larger drama. Day-boats
> of course return to port with whatever marketable
> catch thay have managed to bring aboard during the
> day. Some of these boats will have reached a
> local halibut maximum of one fish per boat per day
> and some will not. But all FRESH halibut will
> arrive in port aboard one or another of these
> vessels.
>
> > "There is currently no directed fishery for
> > Atlantic halibut within federal waters of the
> U.S.
> > EEZ, although some small-scale harvests occur
> > within state waters off of Maine. Virtually all
> > landings from the Gulf of Maine-Georges Bank
> stock
> > region occur as bycatch in U.S. or Canadian
> > groundfish fisheries."
>
> And thanks to all this undirected daily by-catch,
> Atlantic halibut remains (as it long has been) an
> important catch in the region. Day-boats provide
> but the first step in a journey that will carry
> FRESH halibut out over hundreds of miles in many
> directions to end up on a dinner plate near you.
> If you are fortunate, perhaps a chef will serve it
> with a sauce of fresh peppers to complement the
> sweetess in the fish.
"Seafaring elements" lmao You really are a fucktard.
No it is not. The vast majority are caught by commerical groundfishing boats as incidental catch. Beyond that it's incidental catch mostly by lobster boats who set lines while working pots primarily for other groundfish. There are a trivial few if any remaining boats targeting halibut. Just 1 of the 50-ish boats permitted for halibut in a survey of Maine fishermen. None are hauling right back in with your one stinking 50 lb. halibut. They get back when they get back and what they catch will be stored and processed along with the rest of their catch at a local processor and leave whenever their truck is full, not on some special private jet just for you. You might at various times end up with some out of the water the previous day due to fortunate circumstances, but not on any routine, regular basis. No reputable sellers will even claim that. You can find smaller markets who will take orders when they happen to have some and/or ship overnight when it becomes available. A distributor in the mix just increases the delays.
As they say, if you want fresh fish, then catch it yourself.
>
> > No, it is not by anyone other than your dumb
> ass.
>
> So you think it was I who put that 390-pound
> number out on the internet? LOL! It was sourced
> to the Encyclopedia of Life. Feel free to go
> quibble with them. I'm sure they'll take your
> concerns quite seriously.
>
> > Off-point babbling.
>
> Hardly. It was and is quite on point with respect
> to your supreme levels of baboon-like ignorance
> regarding Kona coffee culture and marketing. I of
> course once again have a fresh cup sitting right
> here beside me. Michael Amouri had nothing to do
> with it today either, but it is still really good.
>
>
> > Which, just as I said, anyone else can buy.
> > You're nobody special. He's not either.
>
> LOL! The fruit is so easily bruised. But you are
> not contradicting anything or anyone here. You
> were simply too emotionally disturbed to have come
> to a proper understanding of what was said
> earlier. This sort of thing happens quite often
> with some sorts. There's just no telling how much
> they will misunderstand.
>
> > BTW, you fucked up with your earlier reference
> to
> > "Prime" Kona beans. Prime is the lowest grade.
>
> LOL! Both "Prime" and "No. 1" (the next-lowest
> grade) were raised with regard to the questionable
> pedigree of a can of Trader Joe's so-called Kona.
> Sounds like you missed that boat right along with
> all those many, many others.
Sounds more like you don't really know what the fuck you're talking about. Yet again.
The grades apply only to Kona (and other regional coffee) growers/sellers in Hawaii. Trader Joe's or other outside sellers of finished roasted coffee are not required to use them.
Furthermore, you don't seem to understand that the grades relate to physical characteristics of GREEN coffee beans (i.e., intended for sellers/buyers of whole GREEN beans as an agricultural commodity) not implying anything with respect to the quality of the coffee made from them. The use of the grades for finished roasted coffee really isn't even appropriate. It's marketing. Anyone who tells you otherwise is blowing smoke up your ass. Here, I'll let the Kona Coffee Farmers Association explain it to you from a discussion of past proposed changes to the grading:
Quote
Deceptive Coffee Grade Descriptions
The “quality” of coffee is a subjective judgment as to the desirability of the taste of brewed coffee in the cup. Such a measure of quality does not necessarily have a relationship to the size or the appearance of green beans.
The current and the proposed “grade” classifications used by the HDOA give the false impression that the grade classifications are measures of quality (that is, Kona “Extra Fancy” tastes better than “Fancy” or “No. 1” or “Prime”). The grades, however, primarily indicate bean size, not the quality of the brewed coffee in the cup.
For years professional cuppers—and HDOA inspectors–who taste coffee for a living have observed that there is no detectable quality difference between coffee from the same farm brewed from “Extra Fancy” and “Prime”. They have also observed that the defect element of the Hawaii coffee grade system—at least for Prime and above—has no discernable effect on taste quality. If the Hawaii coffee grades primarily indicate size of beans, then the names of the grades should describe size (for example, “Large Size Beans”, “Medium Size Beans”, “Small Size Beans”)—and not imply quality differences in brewed coffee.
Even though “Kona Prime” continues to offer the same taste for brewed coffee that made Kona coffee world famous, continued use of the current grade names falsely implies that the quality of Kona coffee has declined because CBB damage reduces the amount of Kona meeting the “higher” grades like “Extra Fancy” and “Fancy”. This is a point clearly illustrated by the Greenwell Farms Inc.’s. CBB White Paper of July 2013 (posted at www.konacoffeefarmers.org). GFI’s green bean market has been adversely affected by the perception of buyers that GFI’s inability in 2012/2013 to deliver “Extra Fancy” or “Fancy” grades indicates a decline in “quality” of Kona coffee—when, in fact, the traditional quality taste of brewed Kona coffee is readily available from Kona “Prime” which GFI had available in abundance.
The HDOA should take steps to eliminate the false impressions generated by the names of its grade classifications.
BTW, the Kona growers association seems just fine with Trader Joe's product and marketing/labeling:
Quote
Resolved
That the Kona Coffee Farmers Association awards to Trader Joe’s an HONORARY MEMBERSHIP in recognition of Trader Joe’s contribution to the reputation of 100% Kona Coffee and to the objectives of the KCFA.
Last, you didn't even get the grades right. The second lowest is not #1 but rather Select. The lowest is #3 but it can't, at least for Hawaiian growers, be labeled as Kona (or any of the other regional labels to which the HDOA grades apply).
>
> > You're not paying him for some exclusive access
> to
> > the "elite global supply chain." Have you
> > forgotten what you're even arguing about? lol
>
> You are the only one arguing this exclusivity
> nonsense, this because of your already noted
> failure to comprehend properly what was plain and
> ordinary English writing.
>
> You are no doubt well warranted in imagining all
> these people out there operating on planes and
> levels that are much, much higher than the ones
> you have come to occupy. But they are not doing
> so because they have been granted some sort of
> exclusive license. They simply go out and do it,
> while you for your own reasons do not.
Uh, no dumbass. That was your whole spiel. That Michael (and you) somehow have access to the "tippy-top tiers of the global supply chain" that larger groups like Trader Joe's, Costco, Whole Foods, etc., don't. Remember that one? Obviously complete bullshit.
>
> > Appears that you'll remain stuck on stupid.
> Have you
> > really not figured out by now that there are
> multiple
> > people here who regularly abuse your dumbass?
>
> LOL! The clone-phonies come and go at the same
> times. They exhibit the same sorts of odd syntax
> and other peculiarities of speech. They make the
> same dumb mistakes and say the same insipid
> things. Face it, douche -- they're all you. No
> matter their hapless numbers, you leave your
> defective stamp and brand on all of your
> illiterate Fail Army toy soldiers as you once
> again make a complete ass of yourself, getting the
> living shit kicked out of you on a daily basis for
> your trouble.
Like I said, stuck on stupid. Carry on. Your fail is a continual source of amusement for us. lol
>
> > Uh, rightttt. Only a douche bag desperately
> > trying to find something to argue would assume
> > other than normal ambient given the discussion.
>
>
> There is no "normal ambient" to resort to, Mr.
> Wizard, and you can't do the calculations at all
> without values for the variables. Even for a
> person well known to understand next to nothing at
> all about STEM topics, you have completely fucked
> this one up.
>
We're talking about grinding and brewing coffee. When you're doing that somewhere and under some conditions that typical conditions vary enough to change that in any significant way, then let me know. Until then you remain a dumb ass.
> > Ummm, a simple vacuum bag does not mean "NO
> OXYGEN AT ALL" lmao
>
> LOL! It does with respect to a complete
> imbecile's claim that oxidation is about to occur.
>
It obviously does occur. As does loss of aromatic and other volatile components and other changes. Even you likely realize now that you completely pooched that one just like you fucked up with the 300 lb 'typical' halibut. I'll let the Specialty Coffee Association of America (SCAA) explain it to you:
Quote
Oxygen availability is deemed by many the primary enemy of roasted coffee and affects staling reactions in a variety of ways. Of course, factors that influence the interaction between oxygen and coffee bean or grounds, such as packing density, ground size, or bean surface area, also influence these reactions (Ross et al. 2006; Illy and Viani 2005). Oxidation can not only responsible for loss of some aroma compounds, but also the formation of off-flavors, such as rancidity (Prescott et al. 1937; Illy and Viani 2005).
It has been found that most of the compounds responsible for the aroma of freshly roasted beans are very susceptible to oxidation and can be lost quickly after roasting. Some work has determined that degradation of freshness occurs as soon as coffee has contact with oxygen. Poisson and others (2006) found that hexanal, formed by oxidation reactions, was immediately generated in roasted coffee in an unprotected setting. They also found that low-weight sulfurous compounds dissipated rapidly with exposure to oxygen. Labuza et al. (2001) determined that oxygen was the most important factor controlling the shelf life of coffee, and showed that reducing oxygen to 0.5% in a coffee container could increase shelf life by 20-fold. One research group found that for each 1% oxygen increase there is an increase of the rate of degradation of 10% (Cardelli and Labuza 2001). Even at very low levels of oxygen in packaged coffee (<2%), this oxygen has been found to migrate into coffee and facilitate oxidation reactions (Harris and others 1974).
Lipid oxidation occurs as degassing and volatile compound loss goes on and is also affected by oxygen availability (Nicoli et al. 1993; Prescott et al. 1937). Huynh-Ba et al. (2001) found that the oxidation of lipids to volatiles occurred during the first 24 hours after roasting and grinding. Another study found that trained sensory assessors were able to detect rancidity in coffee packed in air after four months (Marin et al. 2008). These volatiles undergo subsequent reactions to influence volatile secondary oxidation products, which contribute to the “rancid” flavor that can be found in stale coffee.
The Effect on Taste
Not all studies that have investigated the staling of coffee have included how these chemical reactions influence taste. However, when taste is included it is apparent how immediate staling is. Just one week after roasting, tasters in one study preferred soluble coffee that had been stored in a can with 0% oxygen over coffee stored under 2% oxygen (Harris et al. 1974). Ross and others (2006) found that sensory panelists preferred fresh coffee compared with two-week stored coffee, finding the coffee bitter, but also preferred two-week stored coffee over one-week stored coffee. A different research group, Cardelli and Labuza (2001), found that sensory testers detected a loss of quality in coffee with increases in oxygen partial pressure, water activity, and temperature, confirming that these environmental influences made their way to the cup. They deemed that oxygen had the most critical role, with a close to twenty-fold staling acceleration difference between 0% oxygen and average sea level oxygen concentrations.
Many studies on staling include a sensory evaluation of coffee aroma, as opposed to taste. Aroma testers in Steinhart and Holscher’s (1991) study noted that coffee one-week off-roast were “distinctly less odor-intensive” and showed “less aroma freshness.” The researchers determined that this was due to quickly dissipating “low boiling” components such as sulfur compounds, Strecker-aldehydes, and alpha-dicarbonyls. Sanz and others (2001) found that eight identified volatile compounds were positively correlated with the sensory rating of aroma freshness and that the greatest rate of freshness loss occurred in the first month of coffee storage...
Lots more objective information explaining the chemistry involved and effects and desirability of grinding just before brewing if you're ever interested in more than buying by name and price.
>
> > And btw what happens once you open it?
>
> Presumably, one brews a pot of coffee. And
> depending upon how quickly one expects the entire
> contents of the bag to be put to such a purpose,
> one would next consider whether and how best to
> store any remainder. This is not really such a
> cosmic-level problem for most.
And there is no longer any vacuum and it's (even more) subject to losses in quality. Which is the point of grinding just before brewing. Now you might reasonably argue that it's not worth it to YOU. You cannot deny that the physical/chemical changes obviously do happen and much more so when you greatly increase surface area by by grinding. That's the whole point of grinding coffee to begin with - to make the water extraction more effective. The same applies with respect to a wide variety of components in coffee which affect taste.
>
> > You mean like virtually everyone who knows
> anything about good
> > coffee including Michael and every other good
> and even most
> > half-assed coffee shops in the world?
>
> LOL! I drink every day better coffee than you are
> likely to have in years. And to think this latest
> round of procurement was at the bargain basement
> price of just $33 per pound. I can of course
> afford all this in some small part because of the
> money I have saved in cleverly not purchasing
> entirely unnecessary noise- and dust-making
> machinery.
You being a pompous ass who buys into pretentious bullshit doesn't change the facts as I stated them. Have you asked Michael why he doesn't just grind up all of his yet? Let us know...
Not to mention that you're paying more for misleading grades of pre-gound, pre-extracted decaf to begin with. Might as well just save your money and stir up a nice cup of Folgers crystals. lol