How do people feel about 2e (twice exceptional) theory? I don't understand the concept. If a kid has special needs and required all kind of exceptions and resource to be brilliant, may be s/he is not that brilliant in the first place? Seems like a lot of Fairfax parents think their little offspring is so gifted even when their little kid can not make the GT cut based on CogAT and NNAT, so they spend money on all kind of testings and wheedle their kids into the GT program. Then they expect the teachers/staffs to spend more resources on their kids so they can keep up, at the expense of kids who are naturally smart.

Thank you for raising this issue and giving me an opportunity to share information about kids, like mine, who are extremely bright, but have difficulty, for one reason or another, achieving their full potentials.

It's entirely possible for a child to have a genius level IQ, however you choose to define that concept, but also be hindered by a learning disability so that he can't learn to read, for example. Einstein was such a person.

Some kids have extremely asynchronus development so that they may have extremely well developed reasoning and logic skills, but are socially immature past the normal time to develop various social skills. It has nothing to do with how they are raised, it's how the brain develops.

Imagine being a child who teaches himself to read at three and a half with no particular effort from the adults in his life to teach him. At preschool, the child frequently reads to the rest of his class at circle time. He has a curious nature and wants to know the "why" of everything he encounters. What are the different ways to think? What comes after infinity? Why can't we just get rid of money so everyone can have everything they need? These are not the normal questions of a four year old. People are amazed that he is so smart-He hears it often.

This same child, determined by the school to be "gifted" and placed on the GT track in third grade, soon finds himself falling behind his peers in his gifted classroom. He can't remember to take his homework home. Writing in his journal each day is such a chore that he is always the last one to finish. As things deteriorate over the years, eventually the child is tested for disabilities, as mandated by the Federal Government since 1975 when we stopped warehousing disabled kids and started trying to prepare them to become productive adults. (That's a whole other thread.) The testing shows that this child has an IQ of 140-well within the gifted range. But it also shows that he has difficulty coordinating what his eyes see and his ears hear at the same time. He also has a weak pencil grasp and can't seem to innately sense what his fingers are doing when he tries to write. This child will have extreme difficulty taking notes during class lectures, a skill that most students can do with relative ease. Does this mean he's not really gifted after all? No. He's gifted AND he has a disability. Luckily his giftedness was recognized. Some very bright children have such severe disabilities that when tested, the disability "masks" the giftedness. Often these kids are the least well-served by the school system, which is not set up to handle such variations within the same classroom or the same student.

If you are interested in further information Google : Gifted 2E and start with the Hoagies website. Many of our brightest students are so overwhelmed by their weaknesses that they give up and drop out of school and never enjoy the success one would expect for them. Our country could use a few brainy people who think differently to get us out of the mess we're in. We have to give them a chance, though.

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waweez Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for raising this issue and giving me an
> opportunity to share information about kids, like
> mine, who are extremely bright, but have
> difficulty, for one reason or another, achieving
> their full potentials.
>
> It's entirely possible for a child to have a
> genius level IQ, however you choose to define that
> concept, but also be hindered by a learning
> disability so that he can't learn to read, for
> example. Einstein was such a person.
>


Maybe we are coming out of the age of ritalin and other drugs. Let's hope.

What you just described would have been a sure-fire diagnosis for something like ADHD, or ADD, or some psychological disorder requiring pyschoactive drugs.

If we've moved past that phase, that's a fucking good thing.

But don't expect a government run school system to catch up.

If you want your kids to have a good education, pay for it yourself. Public schools are nothing more than the lowest common denominator, they teach the riff-raff, and the poor, and those who do not wish to sacrifice for their children in the hopes that their children will achieve more than they did.

Stick with the public schools if you want to remain socially and financially immobile. To become upwardly mobile, from generation to generation, buy the best education you can afford for your kids. Consider those "taxes" you pay for education, that you think affords you the right to demand tailored education for your little procreation, as a social and economic payment to prevent your children from growing up in a world of absolute morons.

It's like food stamps. Yes, we all pay for them, but would you want to try to live off the sort of foods you could afford on food stamps? No. You buy better food with your own money. Why put your kids through public schools if you could afford to send them to someplace better, that will teach them well and according to the values YOU CHOOSE to instill them with?

2e-wtf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do people feel about 2e (twice exceptional)
> theory? I don't understand the concept. If a kid
> has special needs and required all kind of
> exceptions and resource to be brilliant, may be
> s/he is not that brilliant in the first place?
> Seems like a lot of Fairfax parents think their
> little offspring is so gifted even when their
> little kid can not make the GT cut based on CogAT
> and NNAT, so they spend money on all kind of
> testings and wheedle their kids into the GT
> program. Then they expect the teachers/staffs to
> spend more resources on their kids so they can
> keep up, at the expense of kids who are naturally
> smart.





The issue lies with the fact that not everybody learns in the same manner, as none of our brains are wired the same, and therefore you cannot always judge intelligence simply based upon a standardized method. The basic idea behind this concept can be explained through the well known and published idea that some people are visual learners, while others are more auditory oriented.

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> waweez Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thank you for raising this issue and giving me
> an
> > opportunity to share information about kids,
> like
> > mine, who are extremely bright, but have
> > difficulty, for one reason or another,
> achieving
> > their full potentials.
> >
> > It's entirely possible for a child to have a
> > genius level IQ, however you choose to define
> that
> > concept, but also be hindered by a learning
> > disability so that he can't learn to read, for
> > example. Einstein was such a person.
> >
>
>
> Maybe we are coming out of the age of ritalin and
> other drugs. Let's hope.
>
> What you just described would have been a
> sure-fire diagnosis for something like ADHD, or
> ADD, or some psychological disorder requiring
> pyschoactive drugs.
>
> If we've moved past that phase, that's a fucking
> good thing.
>
> But don't expect a government run school system to
> catch up.
>
> If you want your kids to have a good education,
> pay for it yourself. Public schools are nothing
> more than the lowest common denominator, they
> teach the riff-raff, and the poor, and those who
> do not wish to sacrifice for their children in the
> hopes that their children will achieve more than
> they did.
>
> Stick with the public schools if you want to
> remain socially and financially immobile. To
> become upwardly mobile, from generation to
> generation, buy the best education you can afford
> for your kids. Consider those "taxes" you pay for
> education, that you think affords you the right to
> demand tailored education for your little
> procreation, as a social and economic payment to
> prevent your children from growing up in a world
> of absolute morons.
>
> It's like food stamps. Yes, we all pay for them,
> but would you want to try to live off the sort of
> foods you could afford on food stamps? No. You
> buy better food with your own money. Why put your
> kids through public schools if you could afford to
> send them to someplace better, that will teach
> them well and according to the values YOU CHOOSE
> to instill them with?


Most of the so called "Private School" kids I have known are complete idiots. Buying into a "better" school means nothing.

Thurston wrote:
--------
Maybe we are coming out of the age of ritalin and other drugs. Let's hope.

What you just described would have been a sure-fire diagnosis for something like ADHD, or ADD, or some psychological disorder requiring pyschoactive drugs.

If we've moved past that phase, that's a fucking good thing.

But don't expect a government run school system to catch up.

If you want your kids to have a good education, pay for it yourself. Public schools are nothing more than the lowest common denominator, they teach the riff-raff, and the poor, and those who do not wish to sacrifice for their children in the hopes that their children will achieve more than they did.

Stick with the public schools if you want to remain socially and financially immobile. To become upwardly mobile, from generation to generation, buy the best education you can afford for your kids. Consider those "taxes" you pay for education, that you think affords you the right to demand tailored education for your little procreation, as a social and economic payment to prevent your children from growing up in a world of absolute morons.

It's like food stamps. Yes, we all pay for them, but would you want to try to live off the sort of foods you could afford on food stamps? No. You buy better food with your own money. Why put your kids through public schools if you could afford to send them to someplace better, that will teach them well and according to the values YOU CHOOSE to instill them with?

----

Since you brought it up, a child who has ADHD, (with or without the H) that impacts his ability to benefit from his school experience (because he can't stay in his seat, he has limited ability to maintain attention to task, he says the first thing that comes out of his mouth without thinking and is constantly in trouble, for example) may be found eligible for Special Education, usually under the category of "Other Health Impairment." This allows for the school, with input from the child's parents, to provide various methods for the child to LEARN new ways to handle himself and to be successful.

The best research we have says that kids with ADHD generally will need BOTH stimulant medication AND behavior management techniques that are used consistently at home and at school, so the child knows what is expected of him, there is a consistent response to his actions by all adults, and the child is not required to do more than he is reasonably capable of doing. Using positive behavior supports is far more successful than any punitive techniques. Schools haven't learned this yet, or perhaps, just don't accept it.

It doesn't matter where the child goes to school as long as the way he is managed, and taught to manage himself, is appropriate to his needs.

Some people have no choice but to eat what their food stamp allotment allows, just as they have no means to send their kids to private schools. My personal opinion is that those of us who are fortunate enough to have more than we really need to survive have a moral obligation to give a hand up to those who are struggling. If we see a wrong, we should try to right it. But for the Grace of God, there go I.

waweez Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since you brought it up, a child who has ADHD,
> (with or without the H) that impacts his ability
> to benefit from his school experience (because he
> can't stay in his seat, he has limited ability to
> maintain attention to task, he says the first
> thing that comes out of his mouth without thinking
> and is constantly in trouble, for example) may be
> found eligible for Special Education, usually
> under the category of "Other Health Impairment."
> This allows for the school, with input from the
> child's parents, to provide various methods for
> the child to LEARN new ways to handle himself and
> to be successful.
>
> The best research we have says that kids with ADHD
> generally will need BOTH stimulant medication AND
> behavior management techniques that are used
> consistently at home and at school, so the child
> knows what is expected of him, there is a
> consistent response to his actions by all adults,
> and the child is not required to do more than he
> is reasonably capable of doing. Using positive
> behavior supports is far more successful than any
> punitive techniques. Schools haven't learned this
> yet, or perhaps, just don't accept it.
>
> It doesn't matter where the child goes to school
> as long as the way he is managed, and taught to
> manage himself, is appropriate to his needs.


Beautifully stated. Finding a school (public or private) that can help a family accomplish this consistently can be VERY difficult.

Thank you BD. I agree there are few good options for 2E kids in this area. FCPS continues to address this as an "emerging issue". It's been emerging since the 80's! So far, all I have witnessed is talk and meanwhile, students suffer.