The Nation's Gun Show is going to take place this coming Friday through Sunday at the Dulles Expo Center in Chantilly. If you've never been before, I would encourage you. Even if you're not looking to buy a firearm or ammo, there's all kinds of WWII stuff there too. Guns are not the only thing there, but they're definitely the theme and major product of the show (duh).


A few tips:

1) If you've never owned one before, decide what type of gun you are looking for (rifle, shotgun, pistol, etc.)

2) If you know exactly what you want (i.e.: Make and model) go to www.gunbroker.com to get an idea of what the average market price is for that weapon.

3) Be certain to have two forms of ID on you. One must be government issued and have a photo of you on it (i.e.: Driver's License) and another must have your name and address on it. **The addresses on both forms of ID must be identical**

4) Dealers are usually willing to haggle on price if you buy more than one item. For example, when I was last there I bought a shotgun and a second (different type of) barrel for the shotgun. On their own, it would have cost me about $600. Buying it as a package deal, I got them to knock it down to $500.

5) Dealers are also willing to knock down the initial asking price if you pay them in cash.

Hours are:

Friday 3 - 8 PM
Saturday 9 AM - 5 PM
Sunday 10 AM - 5 PM

Admission cost is:

$15.00 for a 3 day pass

or

$10.00 each day for adults

$5.00 for teenagers 12-17

Children under 12 are free with a paying adult.



For more information, here's the website:

http://www.thenationsgunshow.com/

If you plan on going and want to save $1 on admission, here's a coupon to print out and hand in at the entrance:

http://www.cegunshows.com/coupon.htm

I'll keep an eye on this post in case anyone has any questions.

I thought I'd correct myself on tip #3 above. According to the website, here's the criteria to buy a firearm at the show:

VA Residents
------------
Must be of legal age to purchase a firearm. Must have two (2) forms of ID with the same exact address. One ID should be a valid VA Driver's License or VA ID Card. The other ID can be a document that proves you are VA resident...a concealed carry permit, a personal check , a vehicle registration, utility bill...you can also use a hunting/fishing license...which ever form of ID you use for your 2nd ID it must have the same exact address as your driver's license. You must fill out the paperwork and pass the background check, you can then take your firearm with you.

NON-VA Residents
----------------
Must be of legal age to purchase a firearm. Can only purchase long guns (rifles and shotguns) and must have the same forms of ID as VA residents. Driver's License from your State of residence and another ID that proves you live in that State. ALL LAWS OF BOTH STATES MUST BE COMPLIED WITH. You must fill out the paperwork and pass the background check, you can then take your firearm with you.

Military Personnel
------------------
Must bring a copy of your orders that show VA as your "permanent duty station." Must have your Military ID and your Driver's License from the State you are from.

It would be cool if someone went postal at this show and started firing rounds

More guns in Fairfax County, thank God! And sold right across the street from where the kid went postal with his parents guns and killed the FFX Cops.

He didn't get his guns at a gun show. What an absurd comparison... when we have a drunk driving death on Route 50 we don't say "Oh great, Pohanka Lexus is right there selling cars. More cars in Fairfax County, sold right across the street from where that drunk driver killed those people."

A few years ago, I spent a weekend in Rhode Island. I picked up the local newspaper and on the front page was an article about a local gun show. This along with a picture of two residents, local yokels, examing the merchandise. The caption read "Residents John Smith and Mary Black examining the merchandise. She is a second grade teacher and he is a letter carrier for USPS".

That's right Pgens, Pohanka Lexus IS located conveniently on Rt 50, near the intersection with Walney Road.

When you're in Chantilly wasted, and looking to score some wheels for a night of mayhem, always stop by Pohanka Lexus. They can give your drunken rampage the tinge of an overweight, rich, white woman.

Pgens, you disappoint me, first of all where do you see a "comparison" in MS-13's STATEMENT? If your post is your standard arguement for guns we want your NRA card back!

Ok, prove the guns didn't come from the gun show; This should be good... here's the list: "Kennedy took seven hand guns with him to the Sully District police station parking lot, including an AK-47-style assault rifle and a high-powered hunting rifle." Enlighten us as to where they came from since you know?

As for your drunk driving comparsion... your logic doesn't support your conclusion since alcohol is the cause and you are proving cars did it? What???

Yes, we would penalize the people or bar that sold the alcohol and if a certain car is killing people the manufacture can be held liable.

Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, prove the guns didn't come from the gun show;
> This should be good... here's the list: "Kennedy
> took seven hand guns with him to the Sully
> District police station parking lot, including an
> AK-47-style assault rifle and a high-powered
> hunting rifle." Enlighten us as to where they
> came from since you know?

They check ID (multiple sources) at the shows (he was 18 at the time of the shooting but may not have been the last time the Expo Center gun show happened), and he wouldn't have gotten through the VA/ATF background check to take away a firearm from there anyway with his _carjacking_ record. Not proven, but sufficiently evidenced that an Expo Center gun show was not Kennedy's source for the guns.

Now, after having explained how in general a person youner than 18, or over 18 with a record, will not walk away with guns from the Expo Center, I will move from evidence to proof. Read the articles on the crime. He got the guns from his parents' house, fuckwad.


> As for your drunk driving comparsion... your
> logic doesn't support your conclusion since
> alcohol is the cause and you are proving cars did
> it? What???

Not sure what a "comparsion" is but if you mean comparison what is the difference between blaming a supplier of firearms for the actions of a whacked kid and blaming a car dealer for the actions of a whacked driver? The analogy was lost on you I'm afraid. My POINT is that people kill people no matter what the device used is. MS-13's post, though probably a joke anyway, says that a gun show close to a police station contributes to shootings of police officers.

And no, alcohol would _NOT_ have been the cause. Someone DRINKING alcohol would be the cause.

I think I understand, "guns don't kill people." LOL

At 18, he would have been too young in the first place to legally purchase the handguns they found on him. As for the AK-47, if it was automatic it was because he (or someone in control of the weapon) illegally modified it. The only way he could have legally possessed an automatic weapon would be if it was manufactured prior to the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act, and upon the signing of that act into law the weapon's serial number was registered with the ATF (now commonly referred to as BATFE).

Regardless, I'm not going to get into a debate about "Would the world be a better place without guns?", because the cold hard fact is that we *do* live in a world with guns, and because we *have* guns in society, we *need* guns to assure public safety.

I will say, however, that I feel the more competent and law-abiding citizens we have armed in the community, the safer the community would be. Send someone into a 7-11 packed with little-bunny-foo-foo "guns are bad" liberal yuppies to commit an armed robbery and see how quickly he gets away with it. Send someone into another 7-11 filled with gun packing, competent, law-abiding citizens who think guns are good and see how quickly the guy gets shot by one of them (if he's even stupid enough to try it with those guys around).

Hell, the whole idea behind getting more armed and competent citizens in the public isn't to increase the number of people who can respond to a crime occurring right in front of them, but to serve as a crime deterent.

Gun ownership is a big responsibility, though, and if you're going to own one - especially if you're going to carry it on you - make certain you're familiar with the safety mechanisms, how your particular firearm operates, and regularly hit the range to keep yourself accurate. Shooting is a use or lose skill.

Okay, I'm done rambling.

I love how every assault weapon media looks at is an AK-47
Not to mentioned they stopped producing that model years ago

Got it, criminals don’t have guns because they can’t buy them legally. LOL And, there was no way for the kid who shot the cops to have guns. It didn’t happen.

I suppose you have never heard of people with good records buying guns for criminals for profit? How do you think 70% of criminals buy guns?

And don't give me the that serail number crap. Every criminal in the world removes the serial numbers off a weapon or gives it to fellow gang member who knows somebody that can "whack the gack."(And yes even the hidden\tricky serial number markers)

"record checks keep criminals from getting guns." LOL LOL

As for the argument\analogy that “every country should have nuclear weapons to make the playing field even.” Not sure I agree.

How do you propose keeping guns out of the hands of criminals? By definition they do not follow laws so passing more laws will not help. I'm honestly open to suggestions.

>How do you propose keeping guns out of the hands of criminals?

Take them to that butcher shop in Springfield and let the meatsaw take care of it

Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got it, criminals don’t have guns because they
> can’t buy them legally. LOL And, there was no way
> for the kid who shot the cops to have guns. It
> didn’t happen.
>
> I suppose you have never heard of people with good
> records buying guns for criminals for profit? How
> do you think 70% of criminals buy guns?
>
> And don't give me the that serail number crap.
> Every criminal in the world removes the serial
> numbers off a weapon or gives it to fellow gang
> member who knows somebody that can "whack the
> gack."(And yes even the hidden\tricky serial
> number markers)
>
> "record checks keep criminals from getting guns."
> LOL LOL
>
> As for the argument\analogy that “every country
> should have nuclear weapons to make the playing
> field even.” Not sure I agree.


You actually just made my point for me. I don't understand why states (California) pass such strict gun laws, when people who are going to break the law anyway won't care. Passing laws in an attempt to prevent someone from breaking the law is like trying to put a band-aid on an amputated limb ('cause you know, I wanted goat, dammit).

That's why the real solution is to have more people out there serving as a deterent to someone committing a crime. If a criminal has a gun, the law obviously deterred him. Maybe several law abiding citizens with guns around him will deter him when the law hasn't.

Phil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a criminal has a gun, the law obviously
> deterred him.

Sorry, I meant to say in this quote that the law obviously *hasn't* deterred him.

Out of interest, is this PVC? If so, keep up the good work and it is appreciated.

in the country where 1 out of every 10 is on antidepressants, there are way too many guns.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out of interest, is this PVC? If so, keep up the
> good work and it is appreciated.


I'm not sure who PVC is, so I'm going to have to say no, but hopefully the good work compliment still stands? If so, thank you!

Are you planning on heading there? If so, when?

Heh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in the country where 1 out of every 10 is on
> antidepressants, there are way too many guns.


What connection does that have? I could also say:

"in the country where 1 out of every 10 is on antidepressants, there are way too many cars."

Cars actually have a greater potential to - and statistically have - severely hurt or kill people. If there were less guns in the country, I believe there would be more crime, as people would be less able to defend themselves. If there were less cars in the country, my commute into work and back home each day wouldn't take a goddamn hour each 15 miles.

Heh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in the country where 1 out of every 10 is on
> antidepressants, there are way too many guns.

In the country where 1 out of every 3 consume enough alcohol or be considered at risk for alcohol independence, there are way too many cars.

Phil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you planning on heading there? If so, when?

I have never been to a gun show but may try to make it one of these days. The entry fee is high enough that it isn't worth it for me to go and browse... if I am in the market for something and know what I want I may go to see if I can save a few dollars over local merchants.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phil Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are you planning on heading there? If so,
> when?
>
> I have never been to a gun show but may try to
> make it one of these days. The entry fee is high
> enough that it isn't worth it for me to go and
> browse... if I am in the market for something and
> know what I want I may go to see if I can save a
> few dollars over local merchants.


The next one is in November, just so you're aware. I agree, $9 (with the $1 off coupon) is a bit high to just browse, but you never know what you'll find - doesn't even have to be gun related. If you're a WWII buff, there will be plenty of that stuff there. If you're in the market for a specific type of firearm, let's continue discussion. I can fill you in on the legal requirements for purchase, help you out with any questions you may have, and point you in the direction of a few good places to find what you want.

My dear gun nuts:

That "people can defend each other" argument is pointless.
Most european countries have strict gun laws, people have no guns, and yet you dont see killings left and right.

Get over it people. Average person doesnt need a gun in his house.

Heh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My dear gun nuts:
>
> That "people can defend each other" argument is
> pointless.
> Most european countries have strict gun laws,
> people have no guns, and yet you dont see killings
> left and right.
>
> Get over it people. Average person doesnt need a
> gun in his house.


Most European countries also don't have a cultural history with firearms. Unlike most European countries, the right to bear arms hasn't been around for over 215 years and what laws do exist allowing ownership can be easily repealed - not the case with our country or our Constitution. That's why you have little numbers of guns in those countries, because the possibility of losing the right to legally own the firearm looms around every corner, and many see that as not being worth a potential loss of however many euros/francs/marcs/pounds/etc. a firearm costs.

It works both ways, too. Alcohol (specifically wine) is a HUGE part of French heritage and culture. As such, laws respect it and the French are letting their children drink as young as 8 years old (though at this age it's usually something we recognize as "hard lemonade"). In fact, because this respect and reverance for alcohol exists in the country, they have less incidents of people dying from alcohol poisoning or DWI.

Hell, "most european countries" have a drinking age lower than their driving age. You see less alcohol-related crashes (especially fatal ones) because people understand the impact alcohol can have on your judgment and motor skills before they ever get behind the wheel of a car. This is something I actually consider to be a great idea, but we'll never see the drinking age lower than the driving age for the same reason we'll never see guns outlawed in this country - it runs against the grain of our culture and way of life.

I agree. The "people can defend each other" argument is pointless as are alot of the other "guns don't kills people, but you need one to protect yourself."

Let's say I do buy a gun "for protection." Where should I keep it? Loaded as a side arm on me at all times? Or should I follow the "safe gun practices" and keep it locked up and unloaded in a gun safe?

Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's say I do buy a gun "for protection." Where
> should I keep it? Loaded as a side arm on me at
> all times? Or should I follow the "safe gun
> practices" and keep it locked up and unloaded in a
> gun safe?


That depends on where you feel you need it for protection. If you need it in your home, I suggest locking it up (especially if there's children in your home) and keeping the firearm secured differently from the ammo - such as locking both firearm and ammo in a single locked container, but then having an additional trigger lock on the firearm (make certain the key to the trigger guard and safe are not the same - that defeats the purpose). If you're going to carry it around with you, then there's a completely new set of practices you need to familiarize yourself with.

Don't confuse the rules of "safe firearm storage practices" with "safe firearm carry practices". "Safe storage" is pretty much outlined above. "Safe carry" is a whole other beast.

Frankly, if you're going to carry a firearm with you frequently, I advise you conceal it so as to not unnecessarily upset or disturb anyone. However, if you're going to carry concealed in Virginia, you need to get a permit through the Circuit Court. Part of getting that permit involves submitting documentation that you've taken (and successfully completed) firearm safety training. The State Code has a whole list of what's acceptable proof of this.

That's one thing I actually love about Virginia law - it matches responsibility to power. If you want the power to (legally) carry a concealed firearm around with you, then you need to take safety training to show that you can be responsible with it.

I've found that a lot of firearm fear/animosity/dissent/etc. comes from either being uninformed/unfamiliar with firearms and the way they work, or from mis-information communicated by entertainment media (such as TV shows and movies) or by elected representatives who like to listen to the sound of their own voice and fall into the aforementioned category.

So if anybody has any questions regarding firearms, I'll be happy to do the best I can to answer any questions anybody may have.

Phil,

Once again your arguments make no sense. Get rid of the whiskey bottle, put down the pipe and get off the crack-

> "... That's why you have little numbers of guns in those countries, because the possibility of losing the right to legally own the firearm looms around every corner, and many see that as not being worth a potential loss of however many euros/francs/marcs/pounds/etc. a firearm costs."

What the hell are you talking about?

Let me list a couple of countries where kids have grown up with guns and people buy them for protection:

Cambodia, Somollia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Colombia, Iraq, Iran.

Great places to live?

Jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let me list a couple of countries where kids have
> grown up with guns and people buy them for
> protection:


Actually, your argument makes no sense. Let me list another country where kids have grown up with guns and people buy them for protection:

The United States of America

Great place to live?

If not, you're welcome to leave. But I have to assume from my personal opinions as well as the overwhelming number of people trying to get into this country (legally and illegally) that it is a great place to live.

You know why Europeans dont have guns?
They dont fucking need them.
They live in a civilized society, in which - you dont have a need for guns!
Not to mention they have less crime - but we all know from history why we have so much crime :-)))

You think people on the French Riviera worry about not having a gun?
Fuck no. They enjoy life.

Ofcourse, you can always enjoy life by carring gun with you to your kids soccer game, just in case, never know when those maniacs are gonna show up.

It sad.

So you have to carry a loaded gun on you at all times. Kinda like a wild west type thing where you never now when your going to need it. That makes complete sense.

Its sad that one would argue that America is a great place to live because you can own a gun!

OH BOY

Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you have to carry a loaded gun on you at all
> times. Kinda like a wild west type thing where
> you never now when your going to need it. That
> makes complete sense.


I thought that era was over about...100-150 years ago?

Hey, I'm not trying to convert any of you to see things the way I do, I'm just putting up a defense to the attacks you're launching on people who feel differently from you. Really, if you don't like the idea of guns in our society, then that's your perrogative, I couldn't care less.

I'm not going to hassle you about it as long as you don't hassle me (or others) for feeling differently. I'm just offering information to people in the underground who feel differently from you (yes, they exist), or who are curious to learn more.

Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you have to carry a loaded gun on you at all
> times. Kinda like a wild west type thing where
> you never now when your going to need it. That
> makes complete sense.


Well, I'm not a cowboy, and I don't HAVE TO carry a loaded gun on me at all times...

...but I just about do.

Phil,

you just never know...what if you have to shoot somebody

Duh! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phil,
>
> you just never know...what if you have to shoot
> somebody


Too true. Isn't it better to have a firearm, be trained in its use and the laws governing its use, and never be in a situation when you would need to use it, than to be in a situation where you would need all these things but not have it?

I'd rather have it and never need it, than need it and not have it.

If I have to shoot someone, then so be it. Virginia law says that deadly force can only be used to protect against loss of life, or malicious wounding (which is recognized as a wound which would cause a life-long, irreversible disability). I would never draw my firearm unless one of these conditions was met - I say "would" because I haven't yet, and god willing I will never need to.

and just for 100% protection, you should get a tank and drive that work.

Dude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and just for 100% protection, you should get a
> tank and drive that work.


Hah! A tank? Man, if I thought gas for my car was already expensive...

Switzerland and Finland have lots of guns; fully automatic rifles that are a pain in the ass to acquire here. They are not crime ridden hellholes like some would expect. Shootings and robberies at gun shows and ranges where there are a plethora of firearms are almost nonexistent.

*Obligatory*

Facts you don't see or hear on tv or radio

FACTS TO PONDER:
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000.
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services.

Now think about this: Guns
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
(YES, that's 80 Million)
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188.

Statistics courtesy of Federal Bureau of Investigation aka The F.B.I.

So, statistically, doctors are approximately
9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

Remember, "Guns don't kill people, doctors do."

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT
ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.
We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!

Out of concern for the public at large, I have withheld the statistics on
lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical attention!

Lurker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you have to carry a loaded gun on you at all
> times. Kinda like a wild west type thing where
> you never now when your going to need it. That
> makes complete sense.

Huh? Tell that to the victims and potential victims in this story http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205110,00.html. What this story, and many others, fail to mention is the manner in which the attacker was subdued. The manager of the store that "subdued" him produced a firearm and the guy immediately stopped stabbing people and waited for the police to show up. Had it not been for this citizen, who carried a firearm not knowing when he would need it, several more people would have been injured and/or killed.

guns dont kill people, bullets do, idiots.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis - how does it feel to always be angry and depressed?
Meds dont help?

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Huh? Tell that to the victims and potential
> victims in this story
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205110,00.html
> . What this story, and many others, fail to
> mention is the manner in which the attacker was
> subdued. The manager of the store that "subdued"
> him produced a firearm and the guy immediately
> stopped stabbing people and waited for the police
> to show up. Had it not been for this citizen, who
> carried a firearm not knowing when he would need
> it, several more people would have been injured
> and/or killed.


I saw that story too. It's a perfect example of why I carry. What are the odds that I will ever find myself in a situation like this? Beyond remote.

What are the odds that I will be able to defend myself should I ever suddenly find myself in this beyond remote situation? 100%.

Odds while not carrying? Not so good...

Heh! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis - how does it feel to always be angry and
> depressed?

normally i wouldnt answer lame comments like this but this was an especially stupid question. "how does it feel to always be angry and depressed?" you just answered it yourself. why dont you just ask "what color is red?" holy crap you are retarded.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

What are the odds that once you pull out that gun your going to get shot and end up dead? Pretty good!

jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What are the odds that once you pull out that gun
> your going to get shot and end up dead? Pretty
> good!


What are the odds that jester will wind up in a situation at some point in his life where an immediate threat could be neutralized by someone like me?

We'll see...

Response of a 12 year old.


:)

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heh! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gravis - how does it feel to always be angry
> and
> > depressed?
>
> normally i wouldnt answer lame comments like this
> but this was an especially stupid question. "how
> does it feel to always be angry and depressed?"
> you just answered it yourself. why dont you just
> ask "what color is red?" holy crap you are
> retarded.

Gun owners are people with low self esteem that want to “feel like a man” and they make up this protectionist crap to validate themselves. There, I said it, now argue all you want, but you know it’s true and so does everybody else.

Jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gun owners are people with low self esteem that
> want to “feel like a man” and they make up this
> protectionist crap to validate themselves. There,
> I said it, now argue all you want, but you know
> it’s true and so does everybody else.

so... how did the three billygoats taste?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jester Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gun owners are people with low self esteem that
> > want to “feel like a man” and they make up this
> > protectionist crap to validate themselves.
> There,
> > I said it, now argue all you want, but you know
> > it’s true and so does everybody else.
>
> so... how did the three billygoats taste?


That could be the funniest troll accusation I've ever read!

Food for thought, when the rodney king L A riots started the cops refused to respond to requests for police service. Looting, assaults and rioting broke out.
When the stupid liberals that populate the state went out to buy a gun to protect themselves they were stopped by their own strict gun laws, i.e. seven day waiting periods.
The only stores saved were the Korean ones where the owners stood guard with legally purchased guns.
I am not saying Fairfax is on par with L A but when the cops cant or wont respond who is going to save your ass?
And dont think criminals dont know when the cops cant make it since they watch tv too. All they have to hear is how busy the cops are and it is free shopping day for them.
Never could figure out how some lowlife getting a deserved thumping from the cops equals someone else being entitled to a free tv set.

Jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gun owners are people with low self esteem that
> want to “feel like a man” and they make up this
> protectionist crap to validate themselves. There,
> I said it, now argue all you want, but you know
> it’s true and so does everybody else.


Painting with an awfully large brush aren't you? Please enlighten us some more with your correspondence school psychology theories.

Jester is just trying to reaffirm his mother's comments that he was "special" by going on a forum and trolling. But now that I can see he's a troll I won't attempt to respond with a sensible and reasoned reply. Instead I'll just post this one.
Attachments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVzGM99ZIMQ&search=jay%20and%20silent%20bob%20strike%20back%20

what are the reqs. for getting a permit to conceal a firearm

MrDoctor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what are the reqs. for getting a permit to conceal
> a firearm


In VA there is resident concealed and non-resident concealed permits.
You have to show proof of competency with a handgun
Pass a background check (no felonies, restraining orders or domestic violence and some other misdeomeanors)
Be 21
Pay $50 in state $100 out

More specific info here for FFX county: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/courts/circuit/SP-248.htm

You can however carry openly carry without a permit in the state of VA (Yes the WHOLE state) as long as it is in "common observaton". This includes your car. If you have a permit you can conceal it in your car or person.

More info here

http://www.packing.org/state/virginia/

For all you anti-gun people, please move to DC. It's just a little north of us and has gun laws much more to your liking. (Absolutely no guns allowed except for police). The criminals know this and crime and homicides in DC is much much higher NOVA and some of the highest in the entire country. This despite the fact there are at least 130 some odd different law enforcement agencies within the district. The same is true for PG county in Maryland which allows guns but not open carry and almost never issues concealed carry permits (both are MD state wide). Utah has perhaps the most liberal gun laws in the country (you can carry concealed in schools and bars and their permit is accepted by 30 states) conversely in VA you can do neither with a conceal permit and the VA permit is recognized by 19 states. When was the last time you heard how bad crime in Salt Lake or Provo was? I'm not advocating concealed carry in schools but I'm just providing an example. And no I don't own guns to feel a sense of entitlement or macho-ism, but because I was raised with them as was my father and grandfather and great grandfather. We have gone hunting and I also like knowing that if the nuke hits DC and everyone starts pillaging (see Katrina LA riots, Watts Riots etc). I'm not calling a non existent 911 waiting for the national guard.

people who had a registered weapon in dc before a certain date retain the right to possess the weapon, but DC has gone to amazing lengths to make it nearly impossible to encounter circumstances under which it could be legally USED.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> people who had a registered weapon in dc before a
> certain date retain the right to possess the
> weapon, but DC has gone to amazing lengths to make
> it nearly impossible to encounter circumstances
> under which it could be legally USED.

As far as I heard that date was 1976 (when the gun ban went into effect). I also heard that a man came home and found his wife being raped, shot the man raping his wife (not killing him) and he got more time in prison that the rapist did. You also will get put in jail for unregistered ammo. I believe if you are a home or business owner you can legally own a shotgun in DC only if it was registered in DC prior to 1976 (you don't have to be the original owner).

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also like
> knowing that if the nuke hits DC and everyone
> starts pillaging [...]

hold it right there.... if a nuke hits DC, we will all be dead. even if it's a "dirty bomb", we will still be dead (very shortly) from radiation.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Not necessarlily. I work in emergency mamagnent/planning and the outside of the radius of the biggest Russian nuke (FFX is safe) the largest immediate threat is radiation. That will follow the prevailing winds for the most part. Food and water will be contaminated as will the air. Most will die of cancer (mainly thyroid) in a number of years after (see Chernobyl). However there is still the threats of hurricane, terrorist attack, and many other things. The way I see things is that a democrat is most likely coming into office in '08 which almost guarantees that current firearms will be federally restricted (See assault weapons ban of 94-04 signed under Clinton). Call me crazy but I like freedom whatever it may be (I tend to be libertarian somewhat) and I don't like the government taking away any rights from me. Dirty bombs you are speaking of use conventional explosive around radioactive material which has a affect of several miles maximum. No way in hell a dirty bomb of 2 kilo grams of radioactive plutonium wrapped around a stick of dynamite in DC will kill anyone in Fairfax. Will it cause panic and disrupt the economy? Hell yes. Will it cause chaos because we're all dumbshits that follow the media and panic over anything? Probably. Feel free to hold onto your baseball bat. I will have my ak and ar locked and loaded.

I don't know what's wrong with a potatoe gun loaded with lacrosse balls.

guns are for power tripping cops, psychos, and people who can't handle their business. The only civilians who nshould have the right to carry them are little old women and hot chicks ( I guess since they are the ones most at risk from predators, criminals, and the like).

Only handguns are illegal in d.c., although those purchased and registered before 1976 are grandfathered in and remain legal. All rifles/shotguns are legal(except sawed-off, semi, automatic or otherwise altered long guns) UNLESS THEY RECENTLY CHANGED IT, GET YOUR D.C. LAWS STRAIGHT!!!

BTW... No concealed weapon permits in d.c. of course and you can't carry pre 1976 handguns or rifles on your person even if visible

No, ALL firearms are illegal in DC. Even owning ammunition is illegal. So if you're a hunter, you can't keep your rifles or ammo in your house. My roommate is a DC cop and a hunter. He couldn't live in the city b/c he has about a dozen rifles and even as a cop he wasn't (legally) allowed to possess them.

i guess they changed it recently

i guess they changed it recently Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i guess they changed it recently

yeah... like 10 years ago.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Carrying a handgun in the District is prohibited. All firearms are to be kept at one`s home or place of business.

All firearms must be unloaded and disassembled or locked with a trigger lock except when kept at a registrant`s place of business or while being used for lawful "recreational" purposes. A D.C. license to carry a pistol is needed for one`s home or business and the pistol must also have been registered prior to September 24, 1976.

Self-defense in one`s home with a firearm is therefore legally precluded.


got this off the nra site u r wrong and so is your cop friend

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mofo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I also like
> > knowing that if the nuke hits DC and everyone
> > starts pillaging [...]
>
> hold it right there.... if a nuke hits DC, we will
> all be dead. even if it's a "dirty bomb", we will
> still be dead (very shortly) from radiation.

The blast radius of a nuke is much smaller than you think. We don't need to worry about DC targets in a broad nuclear assault. We need to worry about all the other locations of interest peppered throughout northern virginia, like the pentagon, the NRO, CIA HQ, and countless other facilities. If you live in Northern Virginia chances are you live near one.

But for the single smuggled, smaller unit, I have seen maps and the blast radius is a few blocks but the rest depends on wind direction if you are in the city.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2006 08:20AM by pgens.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i guess they changed it recently Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i guess they changed it recently
>
> yeah... like 10 years ago.


Gravis u r truly a dumbass! go to the nra website or check out my thread above. That has and is still the law in d.c., but you wouldn't know that because you never venture into to d.c. unless it's to frequent the gay clubs.

gravis is a little batty boy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis u r truly a dumbass! go to the nra website
> or check out my thread above. That has and is
> still the law in d.c., but you wouldn't know that
> because you never venture into to d.c. unless it's
> to frequent the gay clubs.

what in the fuck are you talking about?! what you just said makes zero sense. why dont you just register a name already instead of this pansy annonymous bullshit?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

During the big flood a month ago I saw a report that said Fairfax County was backed up over 800 calls for service at one point. If that isnt a reason to own a gun I dont know what is.
Otherwise take a number they will get to you.

I have no beef with Fairfax Police I think they are good at what they do, but there are only so many cops to answer the calls. On a national average there is one police officer for every 1,000 people in a community. Think about it.

Criminals see the news on tv and they act accordingly. They know the cops are busy so they go on looting and robbing sprees.

handguns in DC after 1976 illegal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Only handguns are illegal in d.c., although those
> purchased and registered before 1976 are
> grandfathered in and remain legal. All
> rifles/shotguns are legal(except sawed-off, semi,
> automatic or otherwise altered long guns) UNLESS
> THEY RECENTLY CHANGED IT, GET YOUR D.C. LAWS
> STRAIGHT!!!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60034-2004Sep29.html

"By a vote of 250 to 171, the House passed the D.C. Personal Protection Act, which would end the District's 1976 ban on handguns and semiautomatic weapons, roll back registration requirements for ammunition and decriminalize possession of unregistered weapons and possession of guns in homes or workplaces."

also of note

"Bill supporters note that the D.C. homicide rate was 72 percent higher in 2001 than it was in 1976, while the national rate had dropped by 36 percent. Opponents say that the D.C. rate is at a 20-year low and has fallen 55 percent since 1994."

Know of any gun stores in DC? Go to any online store and one thing they will have is no sale of guns or ammo to DC. If you mean that guns that were in DC prior to 1976 are legal in DC assuming they are registered properly then you would be correct.

"By a vote of 250 to 171, the House passed the D.C. Personal Protection Act, which would end the District's 1976 ban on handguns and semiautomatic weapons, roll back registration requirements for ammunition and decriminalize possession of unregistered weapons and possession of guns in homes or workplaces."


that measure was a bill put up by the house/congress but never passed the senate. what I wrote is correct andf is still the law unless it was recently changed.
Hnadguns not registered b4 '76 are illegal. long guns that are not semi/fully automatic or sawed off are legal as long as you keep it in your house and don't carry it on the streets. check the nra site if you dont believe me.

"By a vote of 250 to 171, the House passed the D.C. Personal Protection Act, which would end the District's 1976 ban on handguns and semiautomatic weapons, roll back registration requirements for ammunition and decriminalize possession of unregistered weapons and possession of guns in homes or workplaces."


that measure was a bill put up by the house/congress but never passed the senate. what I wrote is correct andf is still the law unless it was recently changed.
Hnadguns not registered b4 '76 are illegal. long guns that are not semi/fully automatic or sawed off are legal as long as you keep it in your house and don't carry it on the streets. check the nra site if you dont believe me.

Please also take note of the lovely family pictures in the background.

Make all the anti-gun comments you want, because when you run out of breath, these will still be making a very strong statement.
Attachments:

my latest
Attachments:

A beautiful weapon. Who's the manufacturer? I've been interested in acquiring one for myself, and am currently looking at Armalite, Bushmaster and Rock River Arms.

bushmaster? that's protestant armory!

il like ur glock is it? bushmaster the bran made famous by malvo and co.

but guys, don't u think u r overdoing it just a tad?

glock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> il like ur glock is it? bushmaster the bran made
> famous by malvo and co.
>
> but guys, don't u think u r overdoing it just a
> tad?


It's a 3rd generation Glock 19 with a Glock manufactured flashlight attached.

As for overdoing it... Maybe. But in the rare chance that society collapses on itself and all hell breaks loose, I'll have various options to defend myself. Again, that's not likely to happen, but if there's one thing I learned in the Boy Scouts it was to always be prepared.

Rock River, I researched heavily before buying and RR got a contract to supply the DEA and FBI after passing their rigerous qualifications and tests beating out colt and bushmaster. They're basically the same quality as bushmaster but a little cheaper. It's the "elite carbine" with chrome lined barrell. As for overdoing it a tad well maybe I am, but I'm orginally from California and I watched ARs go from legal to illegal and I'm almost positive that will happened again in the future nationally. So im gettin while the gettin is good.

Mofo I wouldnt worry about losing any gun rights in Virginia. If it did happen Virginia would be the last state and then it would most likely be a federal law to over ride Virginias.
I didnt get to make it to the gun show but I know the same group is usually at Richmond on different dates. If you dont mind the two hour drive the prices are better at Richmond shows. Since it is still in Virginia the same laws apply for insta checks to buy guns. This kills Fairfax liberals who so badly want to make Northern Virginia another DC where only the thugs have guns. They havent been the same since Virginia passed the law that local jurisdictions cannot make gun laws, only the state can.

I am assuming since these assault rifles with night scopes are for "personal protection" that you carry these with you at all times or keep them loaded sitting around the house with the kids.

And don't tell me they are for hunting. Nobody hunts with a .223 because those bullets are made to shatter.

So, as I said earlier, a need to uplift a weak male ego by saying "look at my gun, now that shows you I am man!"

Less guns, less crime and postal type incidents committed by gun nuts.

How did the kids who did the Columbine Massacre get the guns???????

If every other kid at Columbine had had a gun on them and was trained to use it, how far do you think Dylan and Co. would have gotten?

LOL So now every kid should be carrying guns too. And what age should this start? 4 or 5 maybe? Should they wear them in gym class also?

Wild Wild West in FFX... LOL, Be realistic.

Actually I don't know what they're "for" but luckily I don't have to answer to that. You see the federal and state legislative and judicial branches have interpreted the 2nd amendment of our constitution to include it. If you don't like it by all means write your legislature.

The columbine kids got their guns from their parents and a mother that got them at a gun show (I think). I do not believe there will be a state restriction on guns but a federal in the near future (such as Clinton AWB ban 94-04) once a democrat comes in to the executive office (which I think thew will in '08.) Anyway I'm with this topic.

Mofo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually I don't know what they're "for" but
> luckily I don't have to answer to that. You see
> the federal and state legislative and judicial
> branches have interpreted the 2nd amendment of our
> constitution to include it. If you don't like it
> by all means write your legislature.
>
> The columbine kids got their guns from their
> parents and a mother that got them at a gun show
> (I think). I do not believe there will be a state
> restriction on guns but a federal in the near
> future (such as Clinton AWB ban 94-04) once a
> democrat comes in to the executive office (which I
> think thew will in '08.) Anyway I'm with this
> topic.

Should be *done* with this topic. Not with lol.

Jester, .223 is favored by farmers to kill varmints. As far as "gun nuts" maybe you should talk to the gun nuts in DC. You know the ones who rob and kill over drugs. If guns were the true cause of the problem then Virginia would have ten times the crime than DC since guns here are more easily available.
Go further out of the DC area to the Shenandoah Valley. I would say 95% of the homes have guns yet the crime is almost non existent and you can walk the streets at night.
People out there wont tolerate some thug running around with his pants down to his knees making threats. They handle things their own way.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If every other kid at Columbine had had a gun on
> them and was trained to use it, how far do you
> think Dylan and Co. would have gotten?

further than they did... the "trained" kids would have missed and shot each other. im sure there would be some fools who would try to shoot the gun but the safety was on so they look at the barrel and fiddle with the gun and finally put a nice hole in their own head. everyone has a gun, they shoot other people in panic because... everyone has a gun, hundreds die. :)


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

This will be my last post on this topic - after all, it's about the gun show which has since ended. The thing I'm noticing is that there's three types of people posting to this topic:

1) Those who support the right to bear arms
2) Those who want only criminals to have arms
3) Jester

It's obvious I agree with the people in category 1, as I am one. For those in category 2, I appreciate your mature and civil discussion on the matter (honestly - I don't mean that to be sarcastic at all). Those in category 3 clearly got a little cranky from staying up past their bedtime.

As a resident of Sterling, I'm greatly concerned about my safety when a shooting takes place just down the road from me, and when I start seeing MS-13 tags flying up onto walls. Now, this immigration thing is a subject for another post, but whether you're legal or not, if you're MS-13, that's all people like me will see you as. I don't want it to happen, but if some trouble comes around here, they'll be getting some trouble back. So no matter how civil and polite your dissent on my views (category 2) or how much you whine bitch and moan like a little pussy (category 3) the fact remains that you're not going to get me to change my position on my guns.

If you REALLY want me to get rid of my firearms, go outside and politely request (cat. 2) or throw a temper-tantrum (cat. 3) to get MS-13 to leave the area. If you're not going to do that, then I can only wonder why...

Dear Gun Nut aka Phil,

First of all thank you for celebrity status and my own category. I’m glad you didn’t group me in with (cat 1) or (cat 2.) That would be embarrassing.

I respect your right to have loaded guns sitting around your house. It is certainly not the way I want to live, nor would I encourage it as a way of life for anybody.

I had a good friend of mine killed in High School because some friends were fooling around with a loaded gun and trying to scare him. It worked when they pulled the trigger as joke, the gun was loaded and they blew him away. It only took a sec to make the mistake.

In college I had a second friend take his own life because he was depressed, put a gun(.44) to his head and pulled the trigger. It only took a second.

A friend of mine had a gun stolen about 5 years ago. He called and reported the theft. The thugs came back on Halloween night. He answered the door, they ran in with masks and tied him. Grabbed one his guns from a closet, beat him over the head and then tried to killed him but the gun jammed, they order him to open his gun safe. He refused. A second knock at the door and the thugs fled.

Apparently having guns in the house is what attracted the thugs. All the guns he owned didn’t help him because they weren’t with in reach when he was passing out candy to kids.

I hope you can understand that I’m not a “crazy liberal.” In fact I can hit a target with a .44 Magnum at 75 feet. I have been to Blueridge arsenal several times to shoot with friends.

I have just a lot of bad experiences with guns.

Love,
Jester

jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In college I had a second friend take his own life
> because he was depressed, put a gun(.44) to his
> head and pulled the trigger. It only took a
> second.

quick and painless. i dont see the problem here. it would seem you dont understand the true nature of depression so shut the fuck up. :)


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Jester,

I actually thought long and hard about if I was going to respond, and if so how I would respond, to your post. On one hand, a part of me wondered if what you said was true or not. Eventually, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and accepted your stories as true - better to be duped by a lie, than to be an insensitive dick to someone who's sharing something personal.

I'm sorry for your losses - I truly am. The reason I, and many others, advocate gun ownership as a form of protection is so that innocent people are not made victims by criminals. That said, it bothers everyone - especially gun owners - when an innocent life is taken by a firearm, especially an accidental or unintended discharge. Perhaps those of us who are pro-gun ownership need to do a better job communicating the responsibility prospective (or current) gun owners have to assure that they become familiar with the operation of their firearms and *commit to memory* (not "become familiar with") the cardinal rules of handling firearms. As I read in your post above, in each instance there was at least one of those rules violated which lead to someone being shot. Make no mistake, while I would love to see more competent and law-abiding citizens carrying firearms, I would only feel comfortable with that if they were familiar with, and abided by, firearm safety rules and the laws governing them.

Finally, I want to apologize for mis-judging you. Too many people have approached me, or others like me, and started to condemn us for being gun owners. I had assumed from your dissent that you were, like those other people, "crazy liberal" wack-jobs who have never in their life fired, held, or even seen an actual firearm (outside of law enforcement) in their whole life. As long as I'm accepting what you shared to be true, then so will I also accept your claim that you're able to hit a target at 75 feet with a .44 magnum. If that's the case, then it says to me that you have some knowledge and experience (even if it is a little) with firearm use. That makes your dissent a lot more credible and respectable than I had initially viewed it.

So with all this said and done, even though we'll always differ on this issue, we may have developed a bit more respect for each other than we initially had at the beginning of this ordeal. Even if that's not what you think about me at this point in time, it is what I now think about you.

Take care, and I'll see you around the forums.

-Phil