I have my suspicions who's behind it, but want to check from informed sources.

Nice now all I have do is put on a whig and I am in the girls locker room...hiddem camera time....smh....celebrate diversity!!!

To my knowledge there is only one school board member that is a pedophile.

Please, do tell.

If this action / measure passes into school code, wait and see the fall out. Think we have problems now? This will open up a can of worms called confusion.
Those who feel like they are something they're not, need therapy and help not accomodation to something that's totally unnatural.
If this is truly a discrimination issue, maybe we should go back to "blacks only" bathrooms and "whites only" bathrooms .. "hispanics only" bathrooms, etc.

After all some students don't feel comfortable in confined spaces with members of another race, "because they are 'different'" and unfamiliar to them.

Then of course, the policy could also be expanded to include permission for whites who identify with blacks, to use the blacks only bathroom and visa versa, etc.

We've become an insane society. If there is danger to students who are transgender, or who feel they identify with being the opposite sex and not how they were born, ... if they are physically in danger of being beat up .. then they ought to consider being home schooled or they ought to be treated as handicapped or physically challenged and have their own classroom for the entire school day .. Would some alternative like that be more reasonable than subjecting everyone else to this radical change of a pandora's box for the sake of a very few.

Ryan McElveen

Just listen to McElveen ... the first few seconds of listening to his voice should be telling ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVy4IqC8zz0#t=14

A true SJW.

Get ready for the male thongs to be purposefully left behind in the ladies room.
that's what started happening at my workplace .. after a dude went trans and got silicon boobies. Yes HE, turned whatever, uses the ladies room.

yes, and why is that going to be OK for children??? Who wants their kindergarten girl having to use the bathroom with a 6th grade boy claiming to be a girl. And, what if they just go co-ed on bathrooms? Now there is nowhere safe for a child to use the bathroom during the day.

If you are concerned about this issue, please show up at the board meeting tonight @ Jackson middle school on Gallows Road @ Gate House Road.

The meeting starts @ 7 PM.

The board voted.
Supposively, this is a step in a positive direction?
Progressing towards what?

A point of terminology: Transgender men are people with the female biological sex but the male gender.

Men are still using the men's bathroom, and women are still using the women's bathroom.

jWwLY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The board voted.
> Supposively, this is a step in a positive
> direction?
> Progressing towards what?


Progressing toward cowering to the Feds and railroading the parents and students.

Ethan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A point of terminology: Transgender men are people
> with the female biological sex but the male
> gender.
>
> Men are still using the men's bathroom, and women
> are still using the women's bathroom.


"men with female organs"?? ..

What kind of horse shit are you all trying to indoctrinate our children with?
NO. They are confused females .. end of story and always will be until they get some professional help!

There you go again with your "fall out."

Who feels like something they are not? Transgender folks feel like something they are; they are simply told by others (like you) to act like something they are not.

I think you indeed are already confused, much moreso than the students who are most affected by this policy revision. Kids these days mostly have their heads on straight about issues like this. They understand the basic rule is to be nice and treat others with respect. Just go back to that rule and you'll be alright. Even you. Your confusion will just melt away.


IsItReallyDiscrimination? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this action / measure passes into school code,
> wait and see the fall out. Think we have problems
> now? This will open up a can of worms called
> confusion.
> Those who feel like they are something they're
> not, need therapy and help not accomodation to
> something that's totally unnatural.
> If this is truly a discrimination issue, maybe we
> should go back to "blacks only" bathrooms and
> "whites only" bathrooms .. "hispanics only"
> bathrooms, etc.
>
> After all some students don't feel comfortable in
> confined spaces with members of another race,
> "because they are 'different'" and unfamiliar to
> them.
>
> Then of course, the policy could also be expanded
> to include permission for whites who identify with
> blacks, to use the blacks only bathroom and visa
> versa, etc.
>
> We've become an insane society. If there is
> danger to students who are transgender, or who
> feel they identify with being the opposite sex and
> not how they were born, ... if they are
> physically in danger of being beat up .. then they
> ought to consider being home schooled or they
> ought to be treated as handicapped or physically
> challenged and have their own classroom for the
> entire school day .. Would some alternative like
> that be more reasonable than subjecting everyone
> else to this radical change of a pandora's box for
> the sake of a very few.

um6tL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ethan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A point of terminology: Transgender men are
> people
> > with the female biological sex but the male
> > gender.
> >
> > Men are still using the men's bathroom, and
> women
> > are still using the women's bathroom.
>
>
> "men with female organs"?? ..
>
> What kind of horse shit are you all trying to
> indoctrinate our children with?
> NO. They are confused females .. end of story and
> always will be until they get some professional
> help!

They are not confused. Also, the best medical treatment for this condition is in fact to support it and allow transition. Other "treatments" actually just make the condition along with its corresponding depression and suicidal tendencies even worse.

In other words, professional help would do exactly the opposite of what you think they would do.

Ethan is totally correct, and you -- whatever your name is -- are just so, so wrong.

I think you need professional help yourself. The world is evolving around you, and you don't seem willing or able to accept it.


um6tL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ethan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A point of terminology: Transgender men are
> people
> > with the female biological sex but the male
> > gender.
> >
> > Men are still using the men's bathroom, and
> women
> > are still using the women's bathroom.
>
>
> "men with female organs"?? ..
>
> What kind of horse shit are you all trying to
> indoctrinate our children with?
> NO. They are confused females .. end of story and
> always will be until they get some professional
> help!

How about turning to spiritual help?
I know some who have been cured through prayer.

The world is evolving into what?

T Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ethan is totally correct, and you -- whatever your
> name is -- are just so, so wrong.
>
> I think you need professional help yourself. The
> world is evolving around you, and you don't seem
> willing or able to accept it.

A lot of people will never find the lifestyles of the GLBT community "acceptable".
That is not a handicap, that is their dyed in wool values and beliefs.
However, that doesn't mean anyone is valueless or hated as individuals. Many hold this view and still respect the individuals within that community.

After all, everyone is created in the image of God, yet we are all sinners too ...
just need to find that remedy for sin.

I agree with you. Many people will always consider sexual orientation and gender identity to be lifestyles, not aspects of one's core being. They will consider their own spiritual outlook to be the one true path and the only acceptable one. They will consider all those who follow different paths to be sinners. The humility that true Christians feel as an extension of original sin will prevent them from hating the sinner. That is fine.

Before us is a question of public policy. In this Sodom and Gomorrah that is Fairfax Underground I'm wondering if it is possible to soberly discuss that question. I'm wondering also if it is possible for anyone here to acknowledge that we live in a pluralistic society where not everyone is Christian, or even religious. And I'm wondering if it dawns on anyone that we must figure out ways to allow each other to live in an environment of peace and respect. If you think God would disapprove, then let God disapprove; and save your own disapproval for your conversations with him. But let others, including gay and trans individuals, live in peace.



JkKJu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> T Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ethan is totally correct, and you -- whatever
> your
> > name is -- are just so, so wrong.
> >
> > I think you need professional help yourself.
> The
> > world is evolving around you, and you don't
> seem
> > willing or able to accept it.
>
> A lot of people will never find the lifestyles of
> the GLBT community "acceptable".
> That is not a handicap, that is their dyed in wool
> values and beliefs.
> However, that doesn't mean anyone is valueless or
> hated as individuals. Many hold this view and
> still respect the individuals within that
> community.
>
> After all, everyone is created in the image of
> God, yet we are all sinners too ...
> just need to find that remedy for sin.

questionablechange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ryan McElveen

He's courting the Fairfax transsexual vote? How big can that be?

I took a look at a few of the Fairfax politicians Facebook pages today and they're foaming at the mouth because they actually encountered opposition. Hilarious!

Yes, because the people opposing the policy are opposing the guarantee of civil rights for a disadvantaged minority. That's not hilarious, it's sickening.

Jesus loves the GLBT community folks too. You all are loved ... we aren't what we do, we are who we are.
Who you are makes a difference ... lifestyle difference or not.
Some believe that certain lifestyles are destructive ... it should be out of a spirit of concern that things are voiced, not out of a mean spirit.

I have plenty of coworkers, some I'm very friendly with, who are a part of the community ... they know and respect me despite my religious views, and visa versa ... we can disagree on things .. but it doesn't have to effect our commradary.

I don't push anything on them, but will offer my views if asked.

Trannies are mentally ill. Options include counseling, medication, isolation, institutionalization, or extermination. Time for you, not us normal folk, to evolve.

T was hired by the school system to post on FFU and brainwash us. Ethan is in
with him.

WORD TO THE WISE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> T was hired by the school system to post on FFU
> and brainwash us. Ethan is in
> with him.


What evidence do you have to support this claim?

I don't know if Ethan is in on anything. I think he is just expressing his opinion.
I would like to build bridges with that community ... more can be accomplished through knowing someone, then with complaining and I don't have any agendas, just believe in networking, rather than complaining ... sometimes complaints come across as hateful ... blantant name calling IS hateful .. but I think most people have genuine concerns and want to be "informed" as the board chair put it, about what makes people tick .. and how others view things.

Indeed, I am merely expressing my opinion and engaging in debate.

Hey T Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trannies are mentally ill. Options include
> counseling, medication, isolation,
> institutionalization, or extermination. Time for
> you, not us normal folk, to evolve.


^^^^^This is 100% correct. T wants everyone to accept his mental illness as normal. No one should mistreats trannies, any more than they should mistreat the retards. But neither is normal. T thinking he's a chick is no different than if he thought he was a dog. Both are examples of a fucked up brain.

Erm, we don't have to be transgender ourselves to support their rights. I am not transgender. I cannot speak for T on that matter.

Oh, and it is different than thinking he's a dog, because thinking you are an animal does not have a neurological basis, whereas having a gender different from your sex does have a neurological basis. Even if it is an example of a fucked up brain, that is not a reason to deprive them of their basic human rights.

For the record, "tranny" is a slur generally shouted at transgender people while they are being beat up, and its use has the corresponding connotations. Please do not use it to refer to transgender people.

You're pretty far off the mark there, lady.


S  Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey T Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Trannies are mentally ill. Options include
> > counseling, medication, isolation,
> > institutionalization, or extermination. Time
> for
> > you, not us normal folk, to evolve.
>
>
> ^^^^^This is 100% correct. T wants everyone to
> accept his mental illness as normal. No one
> should mistreats trannies, any more than they
> should mistreat the retards. But neither is
> normal. T thinking he's a chick is no different
> than if he thought he was a dog. Both are
> examples of a fucked up brain.

Is this all not just a trend? Attention whoring 101 would fit here perfectly.

Why did this transgender shit just pop up from nowhere recently?

Ethan - all people have to deal with slurs - tranny / dyke / fag and so on will be used as the 1st amendment trumps this fad.

There are now 4546967569 different categories of the LBGT community, it is too much. If you are LGBT, just use the fucking bathroom your genitalia dictates and stfu.

Everyone has to deal with bullies, LGBT should be no different.

It is always these groups who want equal rights, but not equal responsibility.

IF this shit is for real, get the help YOU need and suck it up in reality.

I will treat the LGBT community as an equal, but they get no preferential treatment. People are different from each other, whether it is race, gender, religion, fat, skinny, jock, nerd - all only need to go to class, study and not be assholes.

LGBT is no different than a kid getting picked on because he wears glasses. This idea that the LGBT community is more important than the kid with glasses is just ignorant.

Everyone has to deal with the same bullshit - getting ridiculed and harassed for whatever the reason, deal with it as everyone else has since the beginning of time.

Somehow every "kid with glasses" survived, you should be able to do the same.

No, she pretty much hit the nail right on the head. Then answer's pretty simple. If you have a dick, you go to the guy's bathroom. If you have a vagina, you go into the girl's bathroom. Period. End of story.


T Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're pretty far off the mark there, lady.
>
>
> S  Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hey T Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Trannies are mentally ill. Options include
> > > counseling, medication, isolation,
> > > institutionalization, or extermination. Time
> > for
> > > you, not us normal folk, to evolve.
> >
> >
> > ^^^^^This is 100% correct. T wants everyone to
> > accept his mental illness as normal. No one
> > should mistreats trannies, any more than they
> > should mistreat the retards. But neither is
> > normal. T thinking he's a chick is no
> different
> > than if he thought he was a dog. Both are
> > examples of a fucked up brain.

T Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with you. Many people will always consider
> sexual orientation and gender identity to be
> lifestyles, not aspects of one's core being. They
> will consider their own spiritual outlook to be
> the one true path and the only acceptable one.
> They will consider all those who follow different
> paths to be sinners. The humility that true
> Christians feel as an extension of original sin
> will prevent them from hating the sinner. That is
> fine.
>
> Before us is a question of public policy. In this
> Sodom and Gomorrah that is Fairfax Underground I'm
> wondering if it is possible to soberly discuss
> that question. I'm wondering also if it is
> possible for anyone here to acknowledge that we
> live in a pluralistic society where not everyone
> is Christian, or even religious. And I'm wondering
> if it dawns on anyone that we must figure out ways
> to allow each other to live in an environment of
> peace and respect. If you think God would
> disapprove, then let God disapprove; and save your
> own disapproval for your conversations with him.
> But let others, including gay and trans
> individuals, live in peace.
>

It appears you have shown a disrespect and disregard for the opinions of those posting in this forum, Have we been judged unworthy by you? That’s a little one-sided and narrow for an intellectual all-inclusive -thinking fellow like yourself. If your argument were less contradictory, it might be easier to follow.

Has anybody actually seen the written mandate from OCR stipulating that FCPS had to do this? Was there a deadline?

IsItReallyDiscrimination? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this action / measure passes into school code,
> wait and see the fall out. Think we have problems
> now? This will open up a can of worms called
> confusion.
> Those who feel like they are something they're
> not, need therapy and help not accomodation to
> something that's totally unnatural.
> If this is truly a discrimination issue, maybe we
> should go back to "blacks only" bathrooms and
> "whites only" bathrooms .. "hispanics only"
> bathrooms, etc.
>
> After all some students don't feel comfortable in
> confined spaces with members of another race,
> "because they are 'different'" and unfamiliar to
> them.
>
> Then of course, the policy could also be expanded
> to include permission for whites who identify with
> blacks, to use the blacks only bathroom and visa
> versa, etc.
>
> We've become an insane society. If there is
> danger to students who are transgender, or who
> feel they identify with being the opposite sex and
> not how they were born, ... if they are
> physically in danger of being beat up .. then they
> ought to consider being home schooled or they
> ought to be treated as handicapped or physically
> challenged and have their own classroom for the
> entire school day .. Would some alternative like
> that be more reasonable than subjecting everyone
> else to this radical change of a pandora's box for
> the sake of a very few.

Actually, no one will use the bathroom for its designed purpose anymore as it will become the place for sexual deviation. A state-sanction place for acting out your sexual perversions (in our schools, nonetheless). Nice. What we need is to pull our schools out of the hands of the federal government and go back to local community schools. Small, less funded but community-parent taught.

Sexual deviation? You do realize that these non-discrimination protections have been implemented for transgender students in other school districts throughout the country without any of the consequences you are suggesting, right?

You can imagine the debates, the question and answer sessions:

"Mr. McElveen, it is true you, a married man, accepted a prom date from a high school student?"

"Mr. McElveen, did you, or did you not, write this email to a taxpayer, refusing to respond to their request for information?"

Even if he did need reelection, I don't see why this specific vote is so much of a problem.

It really does seem that Mr. McElveen does NOTHING that he thinks is not to his benefit. He is as self-serving and self-promoting as they come.

This vote is just another in a long line of missteps. Video of his shrill, immature, posturing is going to come back to haunt him.

Does he need reelection? Who cares, he's not likely to get it.

Ethan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They are not confused. Also, the best medical
> treatment for this condition is in fact to support
> it and allow transition. Other "treatments"
> actually just make the condition along with its
> corresponding depression and suicidal tendencies
> even worse.
>
> In other words, professional help would do exactly
> the opposite of what you think they would do.

So the treatment for depression should be dressing up like a clown (wig and makeup included), having a large red rubber nose surgically attached, and insisting everyone tell me how happy I am?

Ethan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For the record, "tranny" is a slur generally
> shouted at transgender people while they are being
> beat up, and its use has the corresponding
> connotations. Please do not use it to refer to
> transgender people.

Tranny is the correct and accepted term to refer to those with the mental illness of believing themselves to be something they're not and insisting on appear as such in public.

Why should the rest of us change our behavior to accommodate someone else's illness?

Avoid the strawman fallacy in the future, it does not help you. You are attacking a different position from the one I am putting forward.

Ryan McElveen is about to become a one term wonder.

When they write the annals of FCPS his entry will say:

"Mr. McElveen stirred up controversy by accepting a prom date. He also incurred the wrath of taxpayers by refusing to communicate with them. His inexplicable obsession with the bathroom behavior of transgender students, however, seems to have resulted in final and eccentric acts ending his tenure on the school board."

Fuck, fine, he accepted a prom date and incurred the wrath of taxpayers. Still, giving transgender student rights is an inherently good thing. It is not an "obsession with their bathroom behavior", it is protection of their rights. This is not eccentricity, not deviance, not obsession, this is being a nice person. I do not see why this itself is in any way a problem, especially when you consider that other school districts in the country have implemented this protection for transgender students, without there being such negative consequences as you have suggested would occur.

The winners get to write history. McElveen will lose, so someone else gets to write his entry.

And, as someone else, asked, what, exactly, are/were these transgender rights that are/were being violated?

Namely, the right to the same educational resources as non-transgender students and the right to use the same gender-segregated facilities as other people of the same gender as them (biological sex is IRRELEVANT). Also, the right to participate in extracurricular activities, which is also often denied for trans students.

Biological sex is the only relevant thing in this matter. All else is a liberal attempt at distraction. If you were born with a penis, use the men's room. If you were born with a vagina, use the ladies room. If you're at home, piss/shit on mommys dinnerware for all we care. If you're confused, find a mirror and the answer is right there. Now dress accordingly. Simple solution, problem solved.

Ethan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Namely, the right to the same educational
> resources as non-transgender students and the
> right to use the same gender-segregated facilities
> as other people of the same gender as them
> (biological sex is IRRELEVANT). Also, the right to
> participate in extracurricular activities, which
> is also often denied for trans students.

We're all sure you can provide documentation of exclusion of transgendered individuals from extracurricular activities.

Speaking of such activities, most of them are a waste of time and money anyway.

No. Biological sex and gender are different things that do not correspond with each other. Even if they are correspond with each other the vast majority of the time, the simple fact that there are people for whom they do not means they are different things. Unless you are having sex with someone, their biological sex is not at all relevant to you. For that matter, unless you happen to be a sexual predator and/or creep yourself, you are not going to be seeing other's genitals in the bathroom, so a person's genitals don't matter except only to them and to people having sex with them. Transgender people are not confused about either their biological sex OR their gender. They know what is in the mirror.

Pretending they are a gender that they are not means extreme depression and possibility of suicidal tendencies. 41 percent of transgender people attempt suicide. Does that sound like a fucking solution to you?

41 percent attempting suicide is not a solution, but it's a damn good start. We, as a society need to hell them achieve a higher success rate on the first try and increase the overall numbers going for that end.

Holy fucking shit you are a horrible person. Wishing SUICIDE on someone is INHERENTLY IMMORAL AND EVIL. You CANNOT pretend you have any kind of moral high ground or superiority if you wish death on others and I do not. They are not broken. The only solution is something that LOWERS the rate of suicide attempts. The problem is how high the rate is, not how low it is. DO not pretend it is otherwise.

Holy fucking shit *YOU* are a horrible person, expecting that my child should be subject to brainwashing to meet your deviant agenda of social engineering! If it's the solution which works best, I wish depression, suicide and lingering death upon all TRANNIES. My child's well being is paramount, and that of our society and culture is a close second. TRANNIES are just the latest cancer.

If any TRANNY wants to jump in front of a train, or off a bridge, I'll be more than happy to hold their purse while they do it.

Anything I as an individual, or we as a community can do to increase their suicide rate is time and effort well spent. The rate should be driven higher, much higher. And you are a sad sack of shit for defending what these monsters are as normal.

Well... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Holy fucking shit *YOU* are a horrible person,
> expecting that my child should be subject to
> brainwashing to meet your deviant agenda of social
> engineering! If it's the solution which works
> best, I wish depression, suicide and lingering
> death upon all TRANNIES. My child's well being is
> paramount, and that of our society and culture is
> a close second. TRANNIES are just the latest
> cancer.
>
> If any TRANNY wants to jump in front of a train,
> or off a bridge, I'll be more than happy to hold
> their purse while they do it.
>
> Anything I as an individual, or we as a community
> can do to increase their suicide rate is time and
> effort well spent. The rate should be driven
> higher, much higher. And you are a sad sack of
> shit for defending what these monsters are as
> normal.
**************************
Thank God for people with common sense.

Some humans, like happens with all animals, are born defective. So much so that they need not be encouraged or unnecessarily enabled. Trannies fall into this category. The kind thing to do is facilitate their exit that they may end their miserable existence.

WHAT THE FUCK? Your fucking HATE and your fucking "INCONVENIENCE" and your fucking "DISCOMFORT" ARE NOT A FUCKING REASON to KILL PEOPLE or drive them to SUICIDE.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You are using the same fucking hate tactics that SEGREGATIONISTS used in the 1950s to deny blacks rights. Do you want to be THAT BAD OF A HUMAN BEING?!

I don't fucking CARE if they are "monsters" or "not normal". THEY ARE HUMAN BEINGS AND DESERVE HUMAN RIGHTS.

Get the fuck off your fucking high horse and learn to be a good and loving person.

They are defective humans with a mental defect so corrupt that it's better to terminate them, or allow them to self-terminate. No loss in any case.

Get off your horse and accept reality.

Even if they are "defective", that is NOT a reason to kill them or drive them to suicide. There is a loss in that case - the loss of HUMAN LIVES.

Try actually listening to how ridiculously hateful and intolerant you sound sometime.

Try listening to how uninformed you sound. Plus, you have probably just handed someone Ryan McElveen's school board seat. He is certain to lose it over this.

Well done.

How do I sound uninformed about this issue? You are only rationalizing your own immorality.

Ethan -

Get off your high horse. This is not about "rights." This is about progressives like Ryan McElvain and the Obama Administration using government coercion to force society to accept and accommodate the whims of the LBGQT community.

Show me one right that has been denied to the transgender community. Rights are based on natural law and apply equally. When progressives try and create special rights to "special" groups they fracture the social compact and create division and annimosity between groups. It's basic rules for radicals.

As for suicide rates among trans, perhaps if you could get off your high horse, you would see that sex reassignment rarely solves the underlying mental issues that lead trans people to depression and suicide. Many of these people have been sold snake oil and have been told cut off your breasts and take hormones and you will be a man or get implants, hormones and have a surgeon snip your penis and stuff the skin into your scrotum to make a vagina and you will be happy as a woman only to discover that no, the underlying confusion, depression, and loneliness remain.

Rather than telling the rest of us how unloving, how intolerant and how hateful we are, why don't you go and read up on the many studies that show that your solutions don't solve the suicidal tendencies for transgendered people.

http://www.sexchangeregret.com/research

These adults do not understand kids....my concern is not with the transgender students who seem to handle things pretty well, but with the ones who are not and will use this ruling to get into the other gender restroom/locker room to have sex. We already have a problem and now it is going to be worse. So glad I am retiring!!

Wanna B Wanda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ethan -
>
> Get off your high horse. This is not about
> "rights." This is about progressives like Ryan
> McElvain and the Obama Administration using
> government coercion to force society to accept and
> accommodate the whims of the LBGQT community.
>
> Show me one right that has been denied to the
> transgender community. Rights are based on
> natural law and apply equally. When progressives
> try and create special rights to "special" groups
> they fracture the social compact and create
> division and annimosity between groups. It's basic
> rules for radicals.
>
> As for suicide rates among trans, perhaps if you
> could get off your high horse, you would see that
> sex reassignment rarely solves the underlying
> mental issues that lead trans people to depression
> and suicide. Many of these people have been sold
> snake oil and have been told cut off your breasts
> and take hormones and you will be a man or get
> implants, hormones and have a surgeon snip your
> penis and stuff the skin into your scrotum to make
> a vagina and you will be happy as a woman only to
> discover that no, the underlying confusion,
> depression, and loneliness remain.
>
> Rather than telling the rest of us how unloving,
> how intolerant and how hateful we are, why don't
> you go and read up on the many studies that show
> that your solutions don't solve the suicidal
> tendencies for transgendered people.
>
> http://www.sexchangeregret.com/research


WHile there are cases of regret, and the suicide rates are still higher than the national average, they are FAR lower than for trans people who have not undergone transition. And the majority of cases where people regret having a sex change surgery are ones not due to having the surgery but due to the surgery being done poorly.

Ethan Parker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WHile there are cases of regret, and the suicide
> rates are still higher than the national average,

So what more evidence do you need that this is a mental health issue, not solved through cosmetic mutilations? Or bathrooms?

Erm, the surgeries aren't cosmetic. If they are done well, they also drastically lower the depression and suicide rates of the trans people that go through them.

It's not mental health either. Gender and biological sex are different, and they know what their biological sex is, they know what their gender is, and they know the two are different from each other. It's not a delusion if they are completely in touch with reality.

I mentioned this on another, related thread, I propose that all sexually assigned bathrooms, I.e. "Boys", "Girls", "Men", "Women", etc. be eliminated. Just have one large common bathroom for all to use, also eliminate teachers bathrooms because this is clearly age discrimination. And after thinking this over I would submit that an ordinance be adopted that males (or those who think they are)be forbidden from standing up to urinate, as this is a clear identifier hence discriminatory, unless of course there is an ordinance requiring females (or those who think they are)to stand while urinating!

This reminds me of something that really happened when I was in 2nd or maybe 3rd grade. At that time, and maybe still, the lower grades (1,2,3 I think) had a bathroom in the classroom. Often times the girls would complain that the boys peed on the seat. And, there was this one boy who would never shut the door when he went in. The rest of us boys would giggle and the girls would yell that "Johnny" ( for the life of me, I can't remember his real name) didn't shut the door again. So the teacher, went back and told Johnny he had to shut the door when he was using the bathroom. So little Johnny, while still peeing stepped over to the door to shut, of course peeing all over the floor. We boys found this incredibly funny while the girls were screaming!

Ethan Parker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Erm, the surgeries aren't cosmetic. If they are
> done well, they also drastically lower the
> depression and suicide rates of the trans people
> that go through them.
>
> It's not mental health either. Gender and
> biological sex are different, and they know what
> their biological sex is, they know what their
> gender is, and they know the two are different
> from each other. It's not a delusion if they are
> completely in touch with reality.

The surgeries change the appearance but not the substance. A tranny cannot get pregnant - there are no ovaries, no "real" vagina, no breasts which produce mothers' milk, no real source of female hormones. For the flip side, the "penis" created is artificial in every way - there are no sperm producing testes, no ability to ejaculate real semen, no source of real male hormones.

It's all theater made by cosmetic mutilation. To make them "feeeeell" better about their freakish delusions.

Even if they do not have those things, it is certainly very much helpful, and as evidenced by the direct effects on depression and suicide attempt rates, it is not cosmetic and not mutilation.

Feeling better is a good thing.

I have explained before why they are not delusional.

Reality trumps feelings, every time.

Biology trumps delusion, every time.

Tranny suicide trumps having them involved in or around schools, every time.

The goals seem pretty evident.

They are not delusional, and they have the right to be educated just like anyone else.

You cannot pretend you are at all moral for wishing trans people to commit suicide.

Then show up at the classroom properly attired and ready to learn. The schools are not a place to fly your freak flag nor engage in social engineering experiments.

Head to the queer bars after class.

I am not transgender myself.

^^ Do you attend Annandale, per chance?

I do not.

And being properly attired does mean dressingly properly as their gender and not as their sex. What is between a person's legs does not define that person.

Ethan - be careful of your conclusions. I have two close friends, one head of a department at the NIH (in the psychological field, a MD and Phd) and another, the head of an endocrinology department at a major university hospital. They both testify frequently that surgery quite often does not solve the underlying challenges transgender people experience, and their conclusions are not wrapped around the quality of the procedures. There is a reason Johns Hopkins no longer performs this surgery. Look, the perspective of my friends may not be the be all and end all as far this question goes, but you are clearly wrong in adopting such an assured stance on the issue of surgery and its efficacy. Have some humility, and respect for complex subjects.

You suffer from the same hubris in your posts - and this is so despite the fact that I in some respects agree with you - people should be treated well and not bullied - ever. But you lack context and perspective. For one thing, you offer no practical, concrete solutions to the problem of adolescents who physically are male and indeed retain many male attributes heading into the girls locker room or washrooms. These kids are not adults. You ellide over the problems, but they are real, and if you are going to require the schools to step up to the challenging of accommodating the bathroom and shower habits of transgender people, you really must offer concrete solutions, and especially, a cost effective one given all of the fiscal pressures on the schools.

This is the problem with the recent resolution - sure it meets your emotionally gooey apparatchik feel good test - but it does not offer concrete means for implementation. Again, I am open to your point of view, and agree with some of what you say, but you are not particularly persuasive. Do better.

Thanks for the constructive criticism. There are indeed many ways that sex reassignment surgery is continuing to improve, but it certainly seems to help most of the time, considering the reduced suicide rates, right?

I too agree that there will be problems with handling implementation, but I don't think that that's a reason to get rid of the policy change. Anti-discrimination policies are always going to be difficult and maybe even painful to implement, and are almost always going to have complications, but that's not a reason not to have them.