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Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Bonni Griffin ()
Date: February 16, 2015 03:50PM

Hello,

So this year the Westfield High School Crew Team is implementing a new volunteer system. They say that only 20% of the team is doing %80 of the work so this year they are doing a point system. This sounds great at first, until the program is explored further. Each rower is required to rack up 75 points by the end of the season. One hour of volunteer work is equal to one point. So in total by the end of the season, each rower and his family must have done 75 hours of work. If this is not met, then the remaining points are to be "charged" to the family at $15 a point. This is completely ridiculous considering the hundreds in dues and mandatory fundraising already paid each year. If a family was unable to put in volunteer hours, they would be charged $1125 at the end of the season. If they are unable to pay their remaining balance after a 2 week notification, the rowers will "be precluded from participation in practices and regattas."

I completely understand that these organizations and activities are a group effort and take a huge amount of time, energy, and commitment. However, is my crew team taking it too far by threatening to charge huge additional sums of money? The team has managed to work fine in the past, but this year it is getting to be a little too intense. Is excluding kids from the activity even though they have paid their mandatory fees legal? I believe they are in violation with FCPS regulation 8424(http://www.fcps.edu/fts/comuse/notice8424.pdf) The board members of the organization automatically get 50-75 points towards their total. In addition, they have signed up for additional positions, taking away opportunities for other organization members to earn points. I believe the music booster programs have run into trouble with mandatory volunteering over the last few years.

I love crew, but this new system threatens to destroy an amazing team. What steps should be taken to correct this?

Thank you for your input.

http://www.westfieldcrew.org/home.html

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wD6jcuRGS1iRlP3WYMJWfLGxkF-pyWw0hsp_FzAqlzw/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000&slide=id.p25

(volunteer program presentation)


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hARvhIUoPmJf5jKYpDNDdndrWrefD4wUi_XaX2c_cww/pubhtml (point chart)


http://www.signupgenius.com/go/30e054bafa8238-team

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: relaxing at home is better ()
Date: February 16, 2015 04:10PM

You don't have to be in crew you know. It's not required for the diploma.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Edgar Mantooth ()
Date: February 16, 2015 04:18PM

Crew is another upper crust elitist activity. The only thing upper class people hate more than working hard is losing money, hence the fines.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: February 16, 2015 04:36PM

This sounds like one of those brilliant schemes developed by someone who has no idea that there are rules governing what can and cannot be required for school related activities. Ask them to show you the paperwork where this arrangement was authorized by the proper school officials, and my guess is they will back off.

That said there is a growing dissatisfaction among those who do volunteer about having to carry the dead weight of those who won't. You may not like being blackmailed into volunteering. With growing numbers of parents willing to walk away though, the alternative might be killing the program.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: laughing out loud ()
Date: February 16, 2015 04:39PM

Well if you don't like the rules, become involved in club leadership. Then change the rules. Meantime, get involved. Then go to the FCPS web site and read the pertinent regulations, directives, etc. Club sports do have to follow FCPS guidelines. At least that's what directive 3860 says. Which would lead you to the fundraising directives.

Have fun.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: The Ghost of Crew Present ()
Date: February 16, 2015 05:04PM

Don't suck it up and either volunteer the hours or have you parents pay up...or...just quit, and never be able to post "crew" on your college application, thus dooming you to college rejection, dead end jobs, a tragically obvious bad marriage to the thuggish manager at the Dollar Tree, a series of unwanted pregnancies, and ultimately, either a beating death at the hands of your rageaholic ex-husband, or a slower death from COPD, caused by the cigarette smoking habit you picked up when binge drinking at bars.

Your choice...

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Welcome to crew ()
Date: February 16, 2015 05:27PM

Crew is a club sport and is funded entirely by the participants. It is extracurricular. If it was curricular (part of a class) it would be tied to the state laws on what can be charged for, by whom, and how. That is how Music Boosters got called on a lot of things, including the no mandatory volunteering and no mandatory donation or fundraising, and why things are drastically changing with the music programs. Crew is very, very expensive. If you don't like the terms of your Crew parents club, you might be at their mercy, since you are making a choice to have your child participate in a completely optional activity that you know does not receive funding from the school system and is entirely self-funded.

You need to investigate the IRS ruling on people being charged extra to not volunteer, and being given a reduced cost for volunteering. Giving extra "points" to the Board in particular sounds very, very shaky. Board members in a non-profit are not supposed to benefit from their position. This all very well could be in violation of the IFA/personal benefit/inurement situation the IRS frowns on. It seems to amount to compensation for services, which might be taxable income to the parents getting the discounts and also jeopardize their nonprofit status. The Comptroller's office is probably a very good bet for helping you figure this out. They are very bright, they know their stuff, and are currently enforcing an IFA ban on music groups as well as some other things, and they are having quite a time with it due to some arrogant attitudes. They are a phone call away. I would contact them immediately and send them a copy of what is going on. An accountant or attorney who is very experienced with non-profit situations might be able to help you sort this out. You can also request a ruling on this from the IRS by sending a letter along with your bylaws and the written description of the policies to the tax exempt division. That might take a while and you will definitely not be popular. Try the Comptroller first. It sounds like you need help right away to sort this out. That is part of their job. This is still a school activity.

You are facing a complicated, frustrating, confusing journey sorting this out. Booster parents can be very abusive, the school system does not like getting involved in these situations, and frequently sides with the Boosters rather than being objective and enforcing any type of policy, even when they know things are not being done properly. Good luck. Don't let them push you around. I have heard lots of Crew Horror stories.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Welcome to crew ()
Date: February 16, 2015 05:37PM


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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Welcome to crew ()
Date: February 16, 2015 05:40PM

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/About-IRS-Exempt-Organizations

You can file a formal complaint with these inundated people, or request an evaluation and they will do a letter. When they find the time. Your child could graduate before they get this worked out.

Try the Comptroller. I found them to be very helpful. They are just facing a very obstinate bunch of people.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: have fun with crew ()
Date: February 16, 2015 06:10PM


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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: have fun with crew ()
Date: February 16, 2015 06:13PM


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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: seen it too many times ()
Date: February 16, 2015 06:18PM

I agree that this sounds pretty drastic, but I'm guessing the parents that were doing the volunteering were fed up with OP showing up with his lawn chair and cooler, reading his iPad and enjoying his Starbucks while waiting for the race to start. Probably the same guy that doesn't read the emails on logistics and needs his own personalized explanation of where he/his kid needs to be. It sucks that systems like this get put in place, but also sucks that the world is full of freeloaders that will only 'volunteer' if forced.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Welcome to crew ()
Date: February 16, 2015 06:34PM

seen it too many times Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that this sounds pretty drastic, but I'm
> guessing the parents that were doing the
> volunteering were fed up with OP showing up with
> his lawn chair and cooler, reading his iPad and
> enjoying his Starbucks while waiting for the race
> to start. Probably the same guy that doesn't read
> the emails on logistics and needs his own
> personalized explanation of where he/his kid needs
> to be. It sucks that systems like this get put in
> place, but also sucks that the world is full of
> freeloaders that will only 'volunteer' if forced.


I understand the problems with volunteering. However, I strongly feel much of what they are doing is in violation of the IRS regulations on non-profits and the newly developed awareness and policies on the part of the school system regarding the frequently abusive tactics displayed by Booster clubs supporting school activities.

I would call the Comptroller immediately. You might have to go through your Activities AP or Principal or Superintendent, but don't let them stop you. You need to insist on answers from somebody who has the knowledge base to make difficult, complex business decisions. The Comptroller can handle it. I know they can. I think they also have moved from "we don't want to hear about Booster problems" to "we realize we have to protect parents from abusive tactics when they sign their child up for a school program". The squeaky wheel gets the grease in a situation like this. I think you need an emergency intervention from the Business office before things go any further with this.

I don't believe crew, even though a club sport, is a Booster-sponsored league, camp, or activity. I think they still operate as a school-sponsored activity. Who owns the boats and other equipment? The school system or the Boosters? I think you probably have rights to be charged at cost. However, investing in the infrastructure can be considered part of calculating the cost (the setting aside of reserve funds for large future purchases). The music boosters got to the point where they thought they owned the uniforms and instruments they purchased for the school system and owned the $800 trips the kids were going on. So did some of the school personnel. Rude awakening.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: VHSL ()
Date: February 16, 2015 06:43PM


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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: 13909 ()
Date: February 16, 2015 07:43PM


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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: row row row your boat ()
Date: February 16, 2015 07:47PM

Edgar Mantooth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crew is another upper crust elitist activity. The
> only thing upper class people hate more than
> working hard is losing money, hence the fines.


Its for those who want to do a "sport" to put on a college application

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Date: February 16, 2015 07:49PM

As a long time crew coach and parent of rowers both in Fairfax County schools and college, 20% of the people do 100% of the work. We do it for our kids and everyone else's. Just do the freakin' volunteering and you won't have a problem. Teach your children to do the freakin' volunteering,it might teach them something. Would it kill you to clean up? To bring some Gatorade? To wipe down an erg? (JEESH!)

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: not the point ()
Date: February 16, 2015 08:06PM

FormerlyRangerRikki:

Volunteering is not the point. Its the abusive booster clubs all over this country pretending that they have the authority to do whatever they please. It is great to volunteer, to build our children's character, and support local programs. It is not okay, however, to charge families extortionate amounts of money because they don't reach some unrealistic expectation set by those who already spend their lives devoted to the booster club.

Bonni: The office of the Comptroller is very helpful in dealing with these matters. They are much more helpful now after the issues with the music boosters.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Welcome to crew ()
Date: February 16, 2015 08:39PM

not the point Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FormerlyRangerRikki:
>
> Volunteering is not the point. Its the abusive
> booster clubs all over this country pretending
> that they have the authority to do whatever they
> please. It is great to volunteer, to build our
> children's character, and support local programs.
> It is not okay, however, to charge families
> extortionate amounts of money because they don't
> reach some unrealistic expectation set by those
> who already spend their lives devoted to the
> booster club.
>
> Bonni: The office of the Comptroller is very
> helpful in dealing with these matters. They are
> much more helpful now after the issues with the
> music boosters.


Thank you for putting out what I also said. I was so impressed with the Comptroller's office once we got beyond the "we can't do anything about Boosters" roadblock. They now realize there are times they need to step in. They are still having compliance and interpretation problems, but things have improved quite a bit. They have a wealth of experience and knowledge. I really feel that is your best place to go. As soon as possible. It sounds like other groups need to be looked at also, if several of them are using this model and Robinson started it. That doesn't necessarily make it OK. I found that many Booster groups were getting pro bono advice from people who were too emotionally involved to give solid, unbiased advice. Even paid advisers were not paying attention to the details, thinking " oh, this is a parent group, they mean well, they can do whatever". They can't. Not only do you need to look at the serious IRS issues, you also need to look at the appropriate way to deal with students and their parents in view of what educational laws apply. That is a niche field of expertise I found out.

Now, I am seeing people getting very crafty at circumventing the controls that were put in place. I think it took a lot of people by surprise. There are certain parents who simply will stop at nothing to create the very best for their children, even if they have to ignore stipulations and limitations placed on them by the state and the school system. They were told exactly what they could and could not do, it is in writing, and some are doing it anyway. Attitudes and problems like this are all over the country-not just in this area. School systems starting relying on parent groups more and more, and forgot about their responsibilities.

It is so important to volunteer in the programs. Everybody can do something.

I hope you can work this out. Everybody will be better off in the long run.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Some Observations ()
Date: February 16, 2015 08:51PM

I've volunteered in the past for a variety of in-school and extracurricular school activities, but I would be livid if I were forced to volunteer or be fined. Seventy five volunteer hours per family is a big commitment.

I don't know about crew, but in my experience most school volunteers are women. A lot of Moms have to work for a living (while doing the majority of the work at home) and they just don't have the time to volunteer. Some stay at home Moms don't seem to understand that, and it creates a certain amount of tension. I especially ran into this when meetings were held in the middle of the day. Working mothers can't do middle of the day. By the way, I've been on both sides.

I also ran into situations where organizations became very cliquish. This can really discourage volunteers. And I've seen situations where male volunteers were such an anomaly that they felt uncomfortable volunteering, especially since men tend to have a more aggressive style that might not fit in with the group.

I don't know what the solution is, but perhaps a more welcoming environment that respects people's schedules and different styles would encourage more parents to volunteer. Could be wrong, but I think that these sort of heavy handed requirements will just alienate people and discourage them from volunteering.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: observer,,, ()
Date: February 16, 2015 09:08PM

Women can also be very aggressive. It isn't just the guys. And yes, cliques are a problem. Sometimes you just have to lower your expectations to a goal that is more attainable with less stress on the families.

It is critical to work out the IRS issues. If the group is not compliant and they are caught they can sustain heavy fines, wiping out a lot of the money that was either given by the parents or earned by the parents.

They cannot have a situation in the music boosters where they volunteer or they are fined. They cannot have mandatory fundraising. They cannot charge families for anything any more unless it is a specific item. Only the school system can, and those amounts are calculated in view of the state laws and the limitations set by the School Board every year. That is to protect the families from people (either parents or teachers) with over the top expectations and aspirations. Crew will probably be different in some respects as it is not associated with a class.

I have heard from a lot of people how expensive crew is. They called us to try and get us on the team and it sounded like it was going to be astronomically expensive and I said no this won't work out for us. It was also a huge time commitment. With the heavy AP course load and everything else it would have been too much for our family. But I have heard the kids love it. I wish you well. I hope the Comptroller pulls through for you or you can find somebody to give you solid advice.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Stroke.Seat ()
Date: February 16, 2015 09:11PM

FormerlyRangerRikki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a long time crew coach and parent of rowers
> both in Fairfax County schools and college, 20% of
> the people do 100% of the work. We do it for our
> kids and everyone else's. Just do the freakin'
> volunteering and you won't have a problem. Teach
> your children to do the freakin' volunteering,it
> might teach them something. Would it kill you to
> clean up? To bring some Gatorade? To wipe down an
> erg? (JEESH!)

Would it kill YOU to do the freakin' coaching?

In my freshmen year, after my first erg session I got up and didn't wipe off the erg. Coach called me into his office and said, "I don't know where you came from but, here at Penn...we wipe down a piece of equipment when we're done using it. You're off the water and out of the gym for a week. You need to find a way to manage your fitness on your own during this period. The next time you forget to wipe down a piece of equipment, you're off the team."

Needless to say, this was never a problem after this.

Earning volunteer points for wipin' down a freakin' erg? What the fuck are we talking about here? Fuckin' mopes...

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Thousand Points of Light -not ()
Date: February 16, 2015 09:18PM

I don't know the specifics of WHS crew, but from every other experience w/FCPS it was ridiculous the number of volunteers that were expected. Those in charge always thought it was essential - essential to have 3 people assigned to do what 1 person could do. Or the task itself didn't seem to be important at all. Rather than letting parents enjoy an activity, the leaders weren't happy unless they had plenty of people to lead.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Asking ()
Date: February 16, 2015 09:29PM

What is the advantage to an organization for logging lots of volunteer hours?

Serious question. I really am interested. Tax write-off?

Must be something since the logging of volunteer hours is so important to board members. More important than getting a job done the most efficient way - or not doing some things at all - things that really aren't necessary.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Answers ()
Date: February 17, 2015 12:31AM

Asking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the advantage to an organization for
> logging lots of volunteer hours?
>
> Serious question. I really am interested. Tax
> write-off?
>
> Must be something since the logging of volunteer
> hours is so important to board members. More
> important than getting a job done the most
> efficient way - or not doing some things at all -
> things that really aren't necessary.

Well obviously they get some sort of benefit from the system since board members automatically get their points. Its sounds like a shitty system made by a bunch of helicopter moms.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Shawshank ()
Date: February 17, 2015 04:08AM

FormerlyRangerRikki Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a long time crew coach and parent of rowers
> both in Fairfax County schools and college, 20% of
> the people do 100% of the work. We do it for our
> kids and everyone else's. Just do the freakin'
> volunteering and you won't have a problem. Teach
> your children to do the freakin' volunteering,it
> might teach them something. Would it kill you to
> clean up? To bring some Gatorade? To wipe down an
> erg? (JEESH!)


Want an easy way to rack up 75 volunteer hours? Sign up to become a referee! Without licensed US Rowing officials most regattas in the DMV (and all held at Sandy Run) would not happen. This is far and away the best way to see a race and you will learn a lot about the sport. I would guess that at least 75% of the referees in the DC area started as rowing parents. You going to be there anyway...why not do something active? It beats working concessions or being a stakeboat holder.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: harvey ()
Date: February 17, 2015 05:39AM


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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: wU3b4 ()
Date: February 17, 2015 07:56AM

Asking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the advantage to an organization for
> logging lots of volunteer hours?



Getting the work done? If I am reading the OP's ppt's correctly, it sounds like crew is a club sport, meaning it is not an "official" sport with a budget and faculty. It sounds like a private group that is just using the school's name, and it has no school provided budget. Is that correct?

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: What a Tragedy ()
Date: February 17, 2015 08:13AM

First world problems. Rich liberals neither volunteer nor want to pay. Want someone else to pay for them.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: You would think so ()
Date: February 17, 2015 08:21AM

wU3b4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Asking Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What is the advantage to an organization for
> > logging lots of volunteer hours?
>
>
>
> Getting the work done? If I am reading the OP's
> ppt's correctly, it sounds like crew is a club
> sport, meaning it is not an "official" sport with
> a budget and faculty. It sounds like a private
> group that is just using the school's name, and it
> has no school provided budget. Is that correct?


Crew is an official Virginia High School League club sport. They fall under the school system. The difference between crew and football or basketball is that the school system pays for a coach and a few other things for football and basketball. As a club sport, crew participants have to self- fund everything. The team can use the name of the school in their title.

They just think they are a private club.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: VHSL ()
Date: February 17, 2015 08:22AM


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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Bud Hoal... ()
Date: February 17, 2015 08:29AM

This is the epitome of social strata in the US. Bunch of comfortable pussies and their coddled children bitching about the stress of an inconsequential social activity while some little kid in the next town over is just happy to wake up in a warm home and eat a piece of toast. Keep us all on that dystopian path, you fat fuckers in pastel sweaters.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Shawshank ()
Date: February 17, 2015 08:30AM

You would think so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wU3b4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Asking Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What is the advantage to an organization for
> > > logging lots of volunteer hours?
> >
> >
> >
> > Getting the work done? If I am reading the
> OP's
> > ppt's correctly, it sounds like crew is a club
> > sport, meaning it is not an "official" sport
> with
> > a budget and faculty. It sounds like a private
> > group that is just using the school's name, and
> it
> > has no school provided budget. Is that
> correct?
>
>
> Crew is an official Virginia High School League
> club sport. They fall under the school system. The
> difference between crew and football or basketball
> is that the school system pays for a coach and a
> few other things for football and basketball. As a
> club sport, crew participants have to self- fund
> everything. The team can use the name of the
> school in their title.
>
> They just think they are a private club.


Budget depends on the county. Fairfax treats crew as a club with no school-based funding. Prince William provides some...my guess is in the $30-70K range annually with the booster club picking up the rest of the cost. Large teams (e.g., Robinson, Westfield, Oakton) probably have a $175-200K annual operating budget.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: JcXC6 ()
Date: February 17, 2015 08:45AM

You would think so Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wU3b4 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Asking Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
. As a
> club sport, crew participants have to self- fund
> everything. The team can use the name of the
> school in their title.
>
> They just think they are a private club.

With the exception of the school name, it sounds like it IS a private club. If there's no public funding, they should be free to do whatever they want on fees/volunteer requirements. If you don't like it, don't participate. It's not like they are using school dollars to run the thing.

Bitching about having to spend time on your kids activities when everyone else that runs it is either a volunteer or being paid from dues/fundraising paid by others is the height of narcissism.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: not so fast ()
Date: February 17, 2015 09:31AM

First of all, they can't do whatever they want. They have to abide by 501.c.3 irs regulations or they can pay taxes, fines, etc.

Second, if this is a school activity, the funds might be considered be non-appropriated public funds. This is an "activity of the school involving students". It is a VHSL sport, unlike a community softball league.

Third, if they are dealing with students in a school sport, they have some obligations to treat people appropriately.

Aside from that, crew is exorbitantly expensive and if you are not willing to deal with that fact of life, you might want to consider another sport for your child. There is no free lunch.

The Comptroller will be able to sort this out. Who owns the equipment and who SHOULD own the equipment in a VHSL club sport is a big question.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: regulation 5810 ()
Date: February 17, 2015 09:42AM

IV. DEFINITION
School Activity Funds – all funds derived from extracurricular school activities, including
entertainment, athletics, club dues, etc., and from any and all activities of the school
involving personnel, students, or property. School activity funds are considered public funds.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Question for the Comptroller ()
Date: February 17, 2015 10:01AM

Should the fees paid by students for crew be accounted for in the internal school accounts since this an extracurricular activity of the school? Just because it is self-funded doesn't seem to rule that out.


Here we go......

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: basic math ()
Date: February 17, 2015 10:39AM

regulation 5810 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IV. DEFINITION
> School Activity Funds – all funds derived from
> extracurricular school activities, including
> entertainment, athletics, club dues, etc., and
> from any and all activities of the school
> involving personnel, students, or property. School
> activity funds are considered public funds.


Schools shouldn't be in the sports business at all. If your kid plays basketball, they get a county funded coach and play in a county built gym. Crew, it's pay as you go. Same with band, drama, etc. Makes no sense. All of these things should be self-funded. Maybe there was a time when we could afford such luxuries, but not anymore. Let it all support itself or die.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Band is a class ()
Date: February 17, 2015 10:55AM

Band is a class. So is drama.
Football is NOT a class. Neither is basketball, baseball, etc.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Huh??? ()
Date: February 17, 2015 11:00AM

Fuck the arts. Fuck sports.

Neither is essential. Problem solved.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: VDOE ()
Date: February 17, 2015 11:01AM


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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: been there crew1 ()
Date: February 17, 2015 12:02PM

This is exactly how Robinson does it for their crew team. It's true, it's the board and committee people who do 80% of the planning and actual work. It's only fair to have all families pitch in. The first year you only have to get 25 points. You can volunteer to carpool to practice at Sandy Run, volunteer at regattas, send water bottles to practice, get sponsors for 5K run, or the easiest: purchase giftcards at escrip, where a portion goes to the team (a win-win, pay for points but you get to keep giftcards). One woman bought her windows at Lowes, used escrip, and had her whole season's worth of points. The leadership goes out of their way to make it easy on parents, and even allows people who have more points to 'share' them, and gives breaks to people with more than one kid on the team. I did it for 4 years, it's not that difficult. They only have the option to pay for points for those people who can afford it, or are too silly to not figure out how to easily get points. Suck it up, stop whining: If you can't get the 75 points, then don't join the team.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Connie Johnson ()
Date: February 17, 2015 12:21PM

Historically, most of the volunteer hours in crew have been performed by a small number of volunteers instead of all of the parents and rowers. This team requires an exceptionally large amount of volunteers to run it due to the nature of rowing and the costs associated with running the team, as well as fundraising.

Scholarships are available, the rower needs to contact the treasurer.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Crew-ella Deville ()
Date: February 17, 2015 01:00PM

Done the crew thing with points before. The only complaint to have is where they get 75 as the magic number. If the people setting this up were smart they would ask how many hours of need there is (differs per year) and divide it up, not just decide on some random number. Why?
First, if a team has 100 people one year and 150 the next, should the number of volunteer hours really stay the same?
Second, take 75 hours and multiply it by a low hourly wage, say $20 an hour. That is $1500 worth of time, on top of the normal crew fees. That is some serious investment into a club.
Also, tperson who wrote that they make it easy to get points is lying. The opportunities are there but you have to use these sign-up programs and beat everyone else to sign up, which is BS. If you work you are left with the dregs of stuff. I am on duty at different times and with travel time, can never beat the stay at home parents for jobs.
One thing is rght though. Yf the leadership folks didn't earn a truckload of points, they would be hard-pressed to get people to do the job. Thankless volunteer jobs are always this way.

So, OP, forget all the "go to the authorites" crap. What you should question at WSHS is how the heck they came up with 75 as the magic number and why it should stay that every year.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Earth ()
Date: February 17, 2015 02:39PM

Connie Johnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Historically, most of the volunteer hours in crew
> have been performed by a small number of
> volunteers instead of all of the parents and
> rowers. This team requires an exceptionally large
> amount of volunteers to run it due to the nature
> of rowing and the costs associated with running
> the team, as well as fundraising.
>
> Scholarships are available, the rower needs to
> contact the treasurer.

I don't think these are the problematic issues.....we know lots of volunteers are needed. It looks like the non profit issues are the problem.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Maybe not ()
Date: February 17, 2015 03:06PM

Dont' assume all parents agree the premise that lots of volunteers are needed.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Cy ()
Date: February 17, 2015 03:14PM

Yo all you foo foo crew members who don't want to abide by the rules should take up fencing or polo or maybe you could join the Vienna Mattress Sleding Team.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: For the Comptroller ()
Date: February 17, 2015 03:38PM

Question for the Comptroller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should the fees paid by students for crew be
> accounted for in the internal school accounts
> since this an extracurricular activity of the
> school? Just because it is self-funded doesn't
> seem to rule that out.
>
>
> Here we go......


G. Fairfax County Public Schools (FCPS) approved automated accounting system must be
used for the management of school activity funds.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: name and shame ()
Date: February 17, 2015 03:43PM

Maybe not Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont' assume all parents agree the premise that
> lots of volunteers are needed.


It doesn't matter if 10 volunteers are needed or 30 - there will always be those that shirk their responsibility. The points system seems childish, but so are parents that do nothing while just a few carry the load. Maybe instead of fines, they should just go with public shaming by tallying and publishing point totals. If points are too harsh, maybe just a description of what each family did.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Those are OUR boats ()
Date: February 17, 2015 04:26PM

not so fast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> The Comptroller will be able to sort this out. Who
> owns the equipment and who SHOULD own the
> equipment in a VHSL club sport is a big question.

If the parent groups think they own the boats, and the school system says they own them (considering them donated property for a school activity)and wins the debate, who insures them, maintains them, and keeps the money if they are rented out or sold? How would you divide this up?

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Just A Parent ()
Date: February 17, 2015 04:38PM

How about if you don't volunteer your kid cant participate?!

20 people for 10 positions, split the duties. You do first half, I do second half.

So sick of the entitled parents, they are not only in crew, trust me. My kid swims and plays baseball. Like someone said, same people working and same people sitting in the parking lot on there phone.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Newcurious ()
Date: February 17, 2015 09:15PM

I wrote the Nova-Rowing Blog for 4 years. A few thoughts...

Crew is a great way to permanently injure your back. 90% of crew participants in college have back damage. The numbers are probably the same for high school.

High school crew generally recruits heavily to get freshmen and sophomores to pay for the top team's boats. They pay all the money and get none of the training. Every team does this. 50% of freshmen quit, then 50% of sophomores, and so on...

Insiders run the teams. Period.

Women get lots of college crew scholarships. Men don't get any. Look it up.

It is a tremendous time sink, unless you love riding in a car every day.

I think there are better alternatives. But your situation is not unique - know that.

Life isn't fair. Get over it. You'll be much happier in the long run.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Helper. ()
Date: February 17, 2015 10:05PM

Honestly, I just stroke the check right up front and don't volunteer at all. No muss. No fuss.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Shawshank ()
Date: February 18, 2015 02:46AM

Newcurious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wrote the Nova-Rowing Blog for 4 years. A few
> thoughts...
>
> Crew is a great way to permanently injure your
> back. 90% of crew participants in college have
> back damage. The numbers are probably the same
> for high school.
>
> High school crew generally recruits heavily to get
> freshmen and sophomores to pay for the top team's
> boats. They pay all the money and get none of the
> training. Every team does this. 50% of freshmen
> quit, then 50% of sophomores, and so on...
>
> Insiders run the teams. Period.
>
> Women get lots of college crew scholarships. Men
> don't get any. Look it up.
>
> It is a tremendous time sink, unless you love
> riding in a car every day.
>
> I think there are better alternatives. But your
> situation is not unique - know that.
>
> Life isn't fair. Get over it. You'll be much
> happier in the long run.

A couple of thoughts...

1) Since there are no youth/development programs for crew everyone in high school starts off as a novice and the novice coaches work largely on fundamentals so that the rowers can move a boat down the course. This takes time and is why some freshman don't get on the water until the third or fourth regatta. Can this be discouraging? Yes, but look at any high school sport...the freshman football team is huge, but how many of those players are on the field 2-3 years later? Swimmming is even worse...there are only so many slots during a meet. Crew, on the otherhand, gets 9 athletes on the water with every boat.

2) "Insiders" are the parents and athletes who actually commit to the sport. It is a two-way street and parents are more likely to get involved when there kids show some real interest. Look at the high school booster clubs...it is filled with "insiders"...but I like to call them involved parents. You should try it sometime.

3) Scholarships...yes women get them for one main reason...Title IX. Rowing is a great way for a college to increase female athletic participation at a relaitvely low cost and it is a NCAA-recognized sport. While DI programs like UVA get a lot of attention, there are a ton of DII and DIII programs out there and in some years there are more rowing scholarships than athletes. However, it is different on the men's side of things. Beyond the Ivy League schools like Washington, Cal, and Wisconsin have a long history of men's rowing, but there is no NCAA championship and the schools with programs are much more selective with who they recruit.

4) "Time sink" is pretty relative...no worse IMO than travel soccer and if you want to compare sports hockey is much worse for less return.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: 8424? ()
Date: February 18, 2015 11:29AM

"I believe they are in violation with FCPS regulation 8424(http://www.fcps.edu/fts/comuse/notice8424.pdf"

I wonder if the 8424 even applies. Here are some sections from the 8424.

To establish the procedures and guidelines for booster club, PTA and PTO managed feebased
activities after hours and the summer use of school facilities

D. Instructor or Supervisor-to-Student Ratios
A maximum ratio of 25:1 between students and an instructor or a supervisor shall be
maintained. Since this activity is not an FCPS co-curricular or extracurricular activity,
the managing organization may elect to allow students outside of the host school to
participate with permission by the school principal.

This specifically says the activities being offered are NOT extracurricular activities. Crew is a school extracurricular activity. Neither the Boosters nor the principal call allow kids from outside the specific school to row on the school team.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Bring The Truth ()
Date: February 18, 2015 09:54PM

Ok, I’ve purposely sat back and observed where this conversation goes … AND without hesitation, “Bonnie Griffin”, has raised extremely valid points; “Yes, the ‘point system’ is a good idea”, but it needs to be applied in a manner that works. Point being, if the “point system” works for ‘Robinson’ or some other school, hey great! It does not mean you have free reigns to shove it down rowers or parents at Westfield!

There are some people (naturally) disguising themselves with colorful names (such as: “Welcome to crew “, “laughing out loud”, and “been there crew1” - - with the 'I was turned down by the Village People' syndrome ), Treasurer, President, Vice President???

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Stupid People ()
Date: February 18, 2015 10:41PM

Bring The Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok, I’ve purposely sat back and observed where
> this conversation goes … AND without hesitation,
> “Bonnie Griffin”, has raised extremely valid
> points; “Yes, the ‘point system’ is a good
> idea”, but it needs to be applied in a manner
> that works. Point being, if the “point
> system” works for ‘Robinson’ or some other
> school, hey great! It does not mean you have free
> reigns to shove it down rowers or parents at
> Westfield!
>
> There are some people (naturally) disguising
> themselves with colorful names (such as:
> “Welcome to crew “, “laughing out loud”,
> and “been there crew1” - - with the 'I was
> turned down by the Village People' syndrome ),
> Treasurer, President, Vice President???


It is probably the board members trying to cover they behinds. Obviously the system is a bad idea. When I was at Woodson we never had a problem with volunteering. The parents would have been pissed as hell if they had to pay for not putting in a random number of hours.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Regarding your problem ()
Date: February 18, 2015 11:02PM

Nobody gives a shit.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Weird logic ()
Date: February 20, 2015 07:09AM

So I think what you are saying is that some people are scarfing up all the volunteer opportunities and so there are not enough volunteer opportunities left, so then people have to fork over big bucks. BIG bucks.

But I thought they said there weren't enough volunteers......

Sounds like they are just trying to fill up the bank account and mess with people.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Ridiculous ()
Date: February 20, 2015 08:58AM

Efficiency is important. There is nothing I hate more than showing up for a volunteer duty that doesn't need to happen.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Queen Lela ()
Date: February 20, 2015 07:57PM


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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Queen Lela ()
Date: February 20, 2015 08:46PM

The way I see it-

The other officers were grossly negligent in not looking at the bank statements and other financial records. If the one guy spent three hours in the bank and knew they were in trouble, he wasn't looking at anything he could not have found in a file drawer in the office or looked up in the computer. Nobody else was tracking the bills and payments?

If they were not checking bank statements and doing reviews and things, their insurance might not cover the stolen money. All for nought. They don't pay up for stupidity or being asleep at the wheel. If they even had insurance.

How did they keep the organization running with this kind of money hemorrhage?

Are the crew teams still trying to recover from this?

How much did each individual school lose?

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: vasra minutes ()
Date: February 20, 2015 09:02PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: hello kitty ()
Date: February 20, 2015 10:49PM

This entire discussion highlights the problems I've seen from my 20 plus years of volunteering for various sports..... having too many volunteers to staff snack bars (having 10 people when 4 would do), bitchy and cliquey volunteer moms, psycho volunteer coordinators who have lost their perspective on life, sign up systems that favor those who can sit in front of their computer to get first dibs on the easiest assignments (contributing 2 liters of soda vs manning a judge table for two hours). When I have the option, I just get out the checkbook so I don't have to deal with the nonsense.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: ...... ()
Date: April 20, 2015 10:23AM

.........

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: mjs82 ()
Date: April 20, 2015 02:16PM

>
> It doesn't matter if 10 volunteers are needed or
> 30 - there will always be those that shirk their
> responsibility. The points system seems childish,
> but so are parents that do nothing while just a
> few carry the load. Maybe instead of fines, they
> should just go with public shaming by tallying and
> publishing point totals. If points are too harsh,
> maybe just a description of what each family did.

Here ya go. link to the do nothing parents...

http://www.westfieldcrew.org/volunteer/volunteer-points-program

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: DanKnows ()
Date: April 20, 2015 03:54PM

Crew-ella Deville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Done the crew thing with points before. The only
> complaint to have is where they get 75 as the
> magic number. If the people setting this up were
> smart they would ask how many hours of need there
> is (differs per year) and divide it up, not just
> decide on some random number. Why?
> First, if a team has 100 people one year and 150
> the next, should the number of volunteer hours
> really stay the same?
> Second, take 75 hours and multiply it by a low
> hourly wage, say $20 an hour. That is $1500 worth
> of time, on top of the normal crew fees. That is
> some serious investment into a club.
> Also, tperson who wrote that they make it easy to
> get points is lying. The opportunities are there
> but you have to use these sign-up programs and
> beat everyone else to sign up, which is BS. If you
> work you are left with the dregs of stuff. I am on
> duty at different times and with travel time, can
> never beat the stay at home parents for jobs.
> One thing is rght though. Yf the leadership folks
> didn't earn a truckload of points, they would be
> hard-pressed to get people to do the job.
> Thankless volunteer jobs are always this way.
>
> So, OP, forget all the "go to the authorites"
> crap. What you should question at WSHS is how the
> heck they came up with 75 as the magic number and
> why it should stay that every year.


As I read this, I had the same thought about how they determine 75 hours. Then, how are the volunteer hours verified? Let's say someone does volunteer to be the carpool driver, why not say you spent 8 hours driving, is that "portal to portal" or only when you actually have kids in the car? Or if you drive to wherever, do you count the time sitting waiting to drive them home?

Seriously, I'd think this could become quite contentious. ONe parent could say I completed my 75 hours, the club could say "no, you didn't" then you'd start arguing that you did as much as little Buffy's mom did and she got more hours than I did. But maybe Buffy's mom was providing some extra services that shouldn't be documented!!!!!

And why not aruge that charging $15 is too much, why not $10, $7.50, etc.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Oh crap. ()
Date: April 20, 2015 05:33PM

mjs82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > It doesn't matter if 10 volunteers are needed
> or
> > 30 - there will always be those that shirk
> their
> > responsibility. The points system seems
> childish,
> > but so are parents that do nothing while just a
> > few carry the load. Maybe instead of fines,
> they
> > should just go with public shaming by tallying
> and
> > publishing point totals. If points are too
> harsh,
> > maybe just a description of what each family
> did.
>
> Here ya go. link to the do nothing parents...
>
> http://www.westfieldcrew.org/volunteer/volunteer-p
> oints-program


You have got to be kidding me. They post this stuff? That has to be a privacy violation. The schools are not allowed to post the names of students/parents who are delinquent in paying their class and trip fees. This is a school-sponsored activity. It is a club sport, but sanctioned by the VHSL. You fill out school forms.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Date: April 20, 2015 06:12PM

Stroke.Seat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FormerlyRangerRikki Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As a long time crew coach and parent of rowers
> > both in Fairfax County schools and college, 20%
> of
> > the people do 100% of the work. We do it for
> our
> > kids and everyone else's. Just do the freakin'
> > volunteering and you won't have a problem.
> Teach
> > your children to do the freakin'
> volunteering,it
> > might teach them something. Would it kill you
> to
> > clean up? To bring some Gatorade? To wipe down
> an
> > erg? (JEESH!)
>
> Would it kill YOU to do the freakin' coaching?
>
> In my freshmen year, after my first erg session I
> got up and didn't wipe off the erg. Coach called
> me into his office and said, "I don't know where
> you came from but, here at Penn...we wipe down a
> piece of equipment when we're done using it.
> You're off the water and out of the gym for a
> week. You need to find a way to manage your
> fitness on your own during this period. The next
> time you forget to wipe down a piece of equipment,
> you're off the team."
>
> Needless to say, this was never a problem after
> this.
>
> Earning volunteer points for wipin' down a
> freakin' erg? What the fuck are we talking about
> here? Fuckin' mopes...


I guess you can't read. I did do the "freakin' coaching. I also did the freakin' Crew Mom thing. I volunteered on the launch dock and baked cookies. Welcome to Crew. Spoiled rotten parents and kids should find another sport. With your attitude about crew discipline, I find it hard to believe you were stroke in a Penn boat.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: go stallions ()
Date: April 20, 2015 06:12PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: highlanders ()
Date: April 20, 2015 06:16PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: alkdsjh ()
Date: April 20, 2015 08:25PM

Here is where a lot of your money went a few years ago.

http://rowingillustrated.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3591

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: DNC Chair ()
Date: April 20, 2015 08:32PM

What a Tragedy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First world problems. Rich liberals neither
> volunteer nor want to pay. Want someone else to
> pay for them.


This.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Just curious, ()
Date: April 20, 2015 09:05PM

Did the insurance pay up on the VASRA embezzlement? There was talk of a 90+ page insurance policy that was not clear. C'mon, somebody talk.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Geyeko ()
Date: April 21, 2015 07:07AM

Just curious, Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did the insurance pay up on the VASRA
> embezzlement? There was talk of a 90+ page
> insurance policy that was not clear. C'mon,
> somebody talk.


Insurance doesn't necessarily cover situations where the officers didn't show due diligence and do what is expected of them when managing funds. Like look at a bank statement and credit card bill every few weeks at minimum.

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: mjs82 ()
Date: April 22, 2015 09:08AM

Want to volunteer some hours...

have the hot moms and hot girls do this...

http://www.warwickrowing.org/onlinepurchasing.php?Doc=nakedcalendar

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: 234958764592876 ()
Date: April 22, 2015 09:14AM

mjs82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Want to volunteer some hours...
>
> have the hot moms and hot girls do this...
>
> http://www.warwickrowing.org/onlinepurchasing.php?
> Doc=nakedcalendar


Now THAT'S sure to raise some funds.
Is there a male version?

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: 9854732576 ()
Date: April 22, 2015 09:17AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: checking the #'s ()
Date: April 22, 2015 12:23PM

Looks like Bonni got enough points.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: && ()
Date: April 23, 2015 07:03AM

&&

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: To each his own ()
Date: April 23, 2015 09:08AM

mjs82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes there is a male version but I don't swing that
> way...
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=warwick+roawers+ma
> le+calendar&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Q9s4Van9H
> cOgNtfXgdgH&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1152&bih=599#tbm=i
> sch&q=warwick+rowers+male+calendar
>
> I like the female version much better
> https://www.google.com/search?q=warwick+roawers+ma
> le+calendar&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Q9s4Van9H
> cOgNtfXgdgH&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1152&bih=599#tbm=i
> sch&q=warwick+rowers+female+calendar


Ask the ladies or any gay guys reading this which one THEY prefer.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: mjs82 ()
Date: April 23, 2015 09:26AM

To each his own Wrote:
> Ask the ladies or any gay guys reading this which
> one THEY prefer.

touché

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: 329048572965 ()
Date: April 23, 2015 09:56AM

mjs82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To each his own Wrote:
> > Ask the ladies or any gay guys reading this
> which
> > one THEY prefer.
>
> touché


I think either one would make some bucks for the kiddies.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: $*^$#@$^&^ ()
Date: April 23, 2015 10:04AM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think any parents and kids who do this ought to get extra points.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: ======= ()
Date: April 24, 2015 09:29AM

This has evolved into the Best Thread Ever.^^^^^

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Let Me See.... ()
Date: April 26, 2015 07:41AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: Jgdnbfd ()
Date: May 01, 2015 01:53PM

C

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Re: Ridiculous Crew Volunteer Requirements
Posted by: snowflakes need special care ()
Date: May 01, 2015 07:32PM

Volunteers should be kept to a minimum. If students and a coach or two can't organize it/transport it/clean it/score it - it shouldn't be an activity.

And why a volunteer to bake cookies?
And a volunteer to bring Gatorade?
Can't these athletes bring something from home and feed themselves?

I'm not available for nonsense.

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