extreme here Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "In the next year or two you will see proposals
> about how FCPS needs to fill numerous new
> positions related to managing the tasks formerly
> handled by booster organizations. Jobs security
> and more employees is the end game."
>
> You have got to be kidding. The last job anyone
> wants is the one dealing with "booster parents" or
> any other special interest group parents. They
> are certainly not going to hire someone to sell
> "spirit wear" or tickets at games or snack bar
> sellers or donation collectors. What they really
> want is for these groups to just follow some
> simple guidelines that don't violate IRS rules.


Mass hysteria, of course. Just get the county money out of the booster accounts. It will still be used for the programs. Not easy to do if they are selling $1400 memberships. Figure out what is membership (whatever that is) and what is deductible. The parents can still do their snack bar and clothing sales. And somebody do a bonafide interpretation of the scholarship issue.

People might be better buying their admission from the school system and taking a legit write-off for donations (instead of memberships) to the Booster club. Or, you can just donate it straight to the school system earmarked for Athletics.

Yes, Booster Clubs, the root of all evil in Fairfax County. Lining their pockets and enriching only the lives of their members.

This thread is such a joke. Obviously started and maintained by parents who have nothing better to do than to poke holes at well meaning folks who volunteer their time in an effort to enhance the experience at countless schools across the county.

I am sure all of the complainers on this site have never spent a minute volunteering at their schools. Yes, it is true, that many FCPS schools required that scholarships go to members, including those who pay as little as $25/year. Going forward, scholarship money is available to ALL. No issue.

Please stop wasting your time here and get to your school and do something productive.

how do you figure out how much was for admission and not deductible? There isn't any way to do this. Have all these people been taking the full deduction?

Somebody brought it up. Here it is.
Attachments:

Time for facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many fcps schools require that kids be booster
> members to apply for scholarships, so whoever said
> otherwise is wrong.
>
> There is case law on this issue. Capital
> gymnastics booster club vs IRS. They lost. You
> can't enrich your members and claim 501c status.
> Boosters are morons if they continus these private
> scholarships.
>
> In addition, look at IRS form 990 question 7a.
>
> "did the organization receive a payment in excess
> of $75 made party as a contribution and partly for
> goods and services to the payor"
>
> Line 7b.
>
> "if so, did the organization notify the donor of
> the value of the goods or services provided"
>
> Bet no booster group answered those questions yes
> which means they filed a fraudulent tax return.


Westfield checked "NO" in box 7a.

There ia a way to do this without shutting boosters Down.

It's for their own best interests to straighten this out. Who wants to be liable for tax fraud?

The passes must be sold by the schools and a receipt given explaining that services were received in exchange for donation. The individual can keep track of how many games they attended and what that value was.

Fo the schools throwing in concession dollars as part of the package, that is just in your face fraud.

The patrons don't even need a receipt for taxes if admission is bought from the school system. Then they just deal with Boosters. The concession dollars are goods and services and yes those need to be deducted from the amount they gave. That is, if they are deducting these memberships.

Clean it up. No hiding behind the volunteer thing. You are managing huge amounts of money and the law is the law.

"Going forward, scholarship money is available to ALL. No issue.

Please stop wasting your time here and get to your school and do something productive."


Obviously the time was not wasted here. They are going to make scholarship money available to all "going forward". Hopefully they will also collect the scholarship money from private funds.

Another line from the tax return of another school- Part 1 line 11-Reason for Public Charity Status-

They have to check the box saying "[This is] An organization organized and operated exclusively for the benefit of, to perform the functions of, or to carry out the purposes of one or more publicly supported organizations (meaning the high school)". Don't understand how scholarships figure into this. The scholarships support other schools (some of which aren't even publicly supported) as well as seeming to be a personal benefit.

Langley's VIP pass is $1000. On their application form, they say that they are 501c3 but wisely say consult with a tax advisor.

Looks like some of them are getting smart.

Time for facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many fcps schools require that kids be booster
> members to apply for scholarships, so whoever said
> otherwise is wrong.
>
> There is case law on this issue. Capital
> gymnastics booster club vs IRS. They lost. You
> can't enrich your members and claim 501c status.
> Boosters are morons if they continus these private
> scholarships.
>
> In addition, look at IRS form 990 question 7a.
>
> "did the organization receive a payment in excess
> of $75 made party as a contribution and partly for
> goods and services to the payor"
>
> Line 7b.
>
> "if so, did the organization notify the donor of
> the value of the goods or services provided"
>
> Bet no booster group answered those questions yes
> which means they filed a fraudulent tax return.

I have watched the Band and now Booster discussions with some interest - and now agree with the OP. The process is out of control and don't say "....no harm no foul." LOTS of issues here.....and significant $$$ with little proper control.

Especially key is when the Boosters award scholarships - a complete beauty pageant from my experience esp when the Booster President picks the nomination committee who then awards a scholarship to the President's child. C'mon man....

part IV line 27

"Did the organization provide a grant or other assistance to an officer, director, key employee, substantial contributor or employee thereof, a grant selection committee member, or to a 35% controlled entity or family member of any of these persons?" YES or NO. If yes, more paperwork. Complete Schedule L, part III.

Preventing this stuff and monitoring it is ridiculously difficult.

There seems to be a lot of boxes to check....
Attachments:

There's no good way to know who the big donors are to monitor this because the names don't have to be on the tax return, and the officers are the only ones who know for sure how much people gave. The whole system is rigged.

Step 1. Someone rats out the booster organization.

Step 2. IRS asks for list of "donors".

Step 3. IRS then audits personal tax returns of the donors to see if they wrote off th whole donation.

I think the penalty is like $25 per infraction btw, so if Westfield sold 200 booster passes and didn't provide the donors with a receipt stating services were received, those fines plus penalties could get UGLY....particularly if they go back many years.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^Some of the names are on the actual tax return, but don't show up on the public data base due to privacy arrangements. So, it is up to the Booster club and the feds to figure out. $25 doesn't sound like much, but it adds up. And it isn't just Westfield. What about all the other school groups? Somebody mentioned Langley people taking the full write-off.

Too many hits to the head..............?
How do you even figure the cost of the admissions? It is an unknown variable if you are offering unlimited admissions to multiple people.

You can look up your non-profit's tax return on GuideStar. You have to register, but it is free just to look at the returns. You probably already know if you received a receipt or not, but you can look at previous years and other groups.

So it looks to me like these groups conjured up a scheme to commit tax fraud (both on a corporate and individual level) using what is technically public money, trying to hide behind the volunteer/ parent/ children thing, and some groups might have rigged scholarship determinations, which may or may not show up on the tax return. Is that about it?

Yes.

And the school system could be in on the whole thing.

Will you also be going after the PTA for the scholarships that they offer? After all they do have a membership drive also. I am sure that they have their own bank accounts also. Does their recipient or parent(s) of the recipient have to be a member? Are they in violation of tax fraud like the athletic boosters, which seems to me that is what is being implied on this thread. The last PTA membership form I filled out said it was tax deductible also.

When I was in high school 40 years ago, we had something called "The Scholarship Show", which was two evenings where we put on performances exclusively for the purpose of earning money for scholarships. It could be a bit goofy (but also some great talent---singing, dancing, skits, comedy---any student could get involved with no real competitive auditions). Yes, I was in it and really enjoyed it (but didn't get any scholarship from it). It was the only thing I knew about that earned money for scholarships. The school auditorium was used as the venue for the event, but everything was out front about what the money was going to be used for. Nothing was tax deductible since you got to see the show for our entrance fee. We had packed houses both nights as this was very well publicized and really considered a community event to support students. It's just an idea. There are probably a ton of way to raise funds for scholarships.

Oh, yes, some of the better acts were also invited to some local spots (like the country club, Rotary, etc.) after the show where we got more money for the scholarship fund.

They have a $3500 package at Westfield which includes the following plus some other stuff-

multiple ads, 6 passes, banners, scoreboard announcement, title sponsor for Golf Classic, 4 dinners at the awards ceremony, name at stadium entrance.

Wonder who has been writing THAT off.

South County is only charging $2,000 for lifetime booster membership, offering 5 Gold passes. And nothing is said on the form about being a 501© but it is on the website. Throwback prices for the 10th year anniversary of the school! Get 'em while they're hot! As a volunteer, I know how important it is to fundraise and support the schools. As a small business owner & tax payer, I also understand how important it is to be on the right side of IRS regulations. This needs to be cleaned up - the "everybody does it" and "this is how we've always done it" doesn't hold water. These organizations are not above the law.

Nicely phrased. Some of this is deductible. Some isn't. It needs to be broken down, and the passes need to be taken out since they can't be quantified. I donated straight to the school before. It works. You have to ask to see the proof that the money went for what you wanted, but they will give it to you. Boosters aren't the only way to donate to a school program.

@@@@@@@ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And the school system could be in on the whole
> thing.

They ARE in on the whole thing. They obviously have an agreement. He/she who has the most booster members has less to split with the other team and more for themselves.

SoCo Gold Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South County is only charging $2,000 for lifetime
> booster membership, offering 5 Gold passes. And
> nothing is said on the form about being a 501©
> but it is on the website. Throwback prices for the
> 10th year anniversary of the school! Get 'em while
> they're hot! As a volunteer, I know how important
> it is to fundraise and support the schools. As a
> small business owner & tax payer, I also
> understand how important it is to be on the right
> side of IRS regulations. This needs to be cleaned
> up - the "everybody does it" and "this is how
> we've always done it" doesn't hold water. These
> organizations are not above the law.

Looks like SoCo also missed the memo regarding part V lines 7 a and b and did not send anybody itemized receipts for larger contributions where people received goods or services in return.
Attachments:

Thanks SoCo Gold. A lot of bad practices going on at SoCo (as I'm sure at other schools) but it's been in place for awhile now and no changes are in sight. Business as usual and people are reluctant to do things the right way if it doesn't benefit the program or themselves. The new DSA allegedly has a history of "getting to know" the booster parents - in her case; it's the moms she gets quite familiar with. So again,"it's the way we've always done it" is in full force. Regardless, the books need to be cleaned up, as does the school in general.

scholarship money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was in high school 40 years ago, we had
> something called "The Scholarship Show", which was
> two evenings where we put on performances
> exclusively for the purpose of earning money for
> scholarships. It could be a bit goofy (but also
> some great talent---singing, dancing, skits,
> comedy---any student could get involved with no
> real competitive auditions). Yes, I was in it and
> really enjoyed it (but didn't get any scholarship
> from it). It was the only thing I knew about that
> earned money for scholarships. The school
> auditorium was used as the venue for the event,
> but everything was out front about what the money
> was going to be used for. Nothing was tax
> deductible since you got to see the show for our
> entrance fee. We had packed houses both nights as
> this was very well publicized and really
> considered a community event to support students.
> It's just an idea. There are probably a ton of
> way to raise funds for scholarships.


Cute idea but the FCPS policy on using students for fundraising says the funds must be run through the school accounts. This was clarified when some groups and principals thought that the principal could decide otherwise and money could go through a Booster account off the public records. Students should not be used to raise funds for a private corporation. And FCPS sure ain't writing a check to Cornell. They will use it for their own programs.

So if kids do fundraising the checks have to be payable to school????

I recall many a fundraisers where checks were made payable to sports boosters...

I know non profits have to make their tax returns available to the public but what about their finances??

It sure would be interesting to see the money's coming and going.

1370- If a fundraising event is Booster-sponsored AND involves students, then the provisions of the 1370 apply, which includes accounting controls, etc.

5810-new this year. Clarified on page 9-Revenue from Booster clubs involving students must be recorded in the school activity funds.

These two regulations had a supposed conflict, the 5810 was updated to match the 1370 this month.

Booster clubs are supposed to show their members what is done with the money. Depending on the types of reports you are shown, you may or may not be able to figure it out. Their records are probably not subject to FOIA unless they receive 2/3 public funding or the records created/held by them (like when they were/are processing money for school trips) are required to be in the school system records, and so are subject to FOIA (via the school system, since they are the custodian of the records and the sponsors of the school trips-very, very important). Non-profits are supposed to show their members their records under the non-profit laws, but there was a huge problem with that in the last few years, creating years of records (both public and corporate) that weren't available without taking legal action. It happened, and everybody learned a really good lesson. There was a Booster group playing around with school trip money and records that the school system let them handle.

The regulations were clarified because you don't want students fundraising and then having the money go into a bank account for a private corporation (that the school system has no control over) and used for a trip to Tahiti for somebody. The other problem was insuring the money. It was found many Booster clubs were uninsured, underinsured, thought they were insured but weren't because they weren't following the protocol of their insurance company and doing reviews/audits and double-checking bank statements every month. The two major carriers for Booster officer liability coverage exclude agreements made with school systems or handling of government funds, so that was also a huge issue, depending on how solid the corporate shield is, is what I was told. I think some of the Booster corporate shields consist of tissue paper. School activity funds are government funds and if they are run through a Booster club under an agreement with a school system, there isn't any officer liability coverage with these two major carriers. If somebody in the school system takes off with the money that students raised, they have the resources (and responsibility) to replace it. Booster clubs might not. School systems can't be held responsible for money in a Booster bank account. Only theirs.

So there's the good, the bad, and the ugly on fundraising involving students.
Attachments:

If the non-profit is 2/3 publicly funded and the records aren't required to be held by another public body, then you can probably FOIA the public records held by the non-profit via the non-profit. An example of this is probably the Virginia High School League. Once the money leaves the school system and is passed to them, the school system is not required to have any records on it. That is in the 5810. The VHSL is run by an Executive Board consisting of numerous public officials, but is a non-profit. It is an alliance that they formed.

This link allows you to search by school name to look at copies of the tax documents filed -

https://www.citizenaudit.org/743143593/

https://www.citizenaudit.org/?q=westfield+high+school

^^^^^GuideStar.org is much simpler. You have full access to the original documents after you register (for free). Sometimes Foundation Center has some things GuideStar doesn't have, and vice versa.

Aaah I see the returns now. You can actually go back a bit further.

Don't believe there are any Booster club problems out there?

Navy PTA, over $150,000.
Ft. Belvoir Elementary School PTO- unknown, "thousands".
Virginia Crew-Hundreds of thousands of dollars. This was HUGE.

Google/Bing "Booster Club Embezzlement". It is rampant. Numerous stories about money kids raised or money parents paid for what are really school issues (trips, uniforms, etc.)-GONE. Those left behind to struggle with trying to pay the bills, keep marching band and athletics up and running, etc. while going through the courts, etc. go through living Hell. It is one thing for parents to knowingly take the chance, but for children to have to go through this after knocking on doors, etc......

Several things are in common-

"We never thought it would happen to us."
"We trusted them."
"I will pay it back. I promise."
"I am so sorry for what I did."

They hardly ever pay it back, because they stole because they were broke.

believe it or not Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't believe there are any Booster club problems
> out there?

Because school employees never embezzle - much better off letting the school system do everything - that makes if problem-free.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Sonya-Swansbrough-Bethany-Speed-Accused-of-Embezzling-Money-231502931.html

Our high school boosters are always talking about field maintenance for the turf field. What does that cost?

I thought these turf fields were supposed to save tons of money....

Turf field maintenance is much less costly than grass, approximately 25% depending on usage levels.

Better question - why are the Boosters paying for this public resource?

whaddayaknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> believe it or not Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't believe there are any Booster club
> problems
> > out there?
>
> Because school employees never embezzle - much
> better off letting the school system do everything
> - that makes if problem-free.
>
> http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Sonya-Swan
> sbrough-Bethany-Speed-Accused-of-Embezzling-Money-
> 231502931.html


School employees embezzle all the time. There was a huge incident at TJ several years ago. About $150,000 from school activity funds, I think. The difference is in the coverage of the funds. The school system has the coverage to replace lost funds. Booster clubs don't necessarily have that. Students are entitled to the safety of having money taken from them or money that they raised fully protected in a fund that is open to public inspection. You can FOIA the Booster clubs via the school system for the records that are technically public records (because they are supposed to be in the school activity fund records), but you might get crappy records or no records, and there isn't a lot you can do about it without a huge scene. Trying to get a private corporation to come up with stolen money (from limited reserves) is a huge pain in the ass. You are then stuck arguing with the school system because they delegated this work to the Booster club and they are by their own regulations responsible for anything they delegate to a Booster club. That is another pain in the ass situation.

turf vs grass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Turf field maintenance is much less costly than
> grass, approximately 25% depending on usage
> levels.
>
> Better question - why are the Boosters paying for
> this public resource?


Boosters chose to help fund the turf fields. Plain and simple. They can donate for anything they want and it can be a restricted donation.

Navy PTA,, over $150,000.
Ft. Belvoir Elementary School PTO- unknown, "thousands".

The school system has the coverage to replace lost funds.

See - I know what I am talking about.

They only have to replace funds out of THEIR accounts that are lost.

And PTA/pto's are basically booster groups.

Did the pta or pto get any money from their insurance?

FCPS is too big of a school district to not have control over the boosters.

Miami dade doesn't play. They have a 35 page manual describing he relationship with sports boosters.

Principals approve any correspondence and any fundraising must be approved.

Having boosters be a 501c3 is a mixed blessing. It does complicate things in many ways. I think Fcps and other school systems thought they could just let these groups take off and everything would be marvelous. Things have gotten really messed up. People know they are separate from the school system, but then they forget, or just don't grasp the implications of what everybody is doing. With the music boosters, it got to the point where they took things into their own hands, were deciding what they wanted to do (along with the staff), and sending everybody a bill. For a class. They also thought they could let them handle public money and walk away from their responsibilities because they weren't supposed to be involved in the 501c3's. That is not compliant with Virginia educational laws, and it has been an arduous journey to reverse the damage that was done. There were a lot of volunteers who did more than they ever should have had to do. It was meant to be good, but they really were taken advantage of. And they overstepped their limitations many times, and everybody forgot that it was up to the school system to set limits and control the programs. There were probably some kids who chose to not participate after looking at the financial obligations that were presented. Everybody offered to help, but many people don't like to ask for help, particularly from their fellow parents. There are clear guidelines now to provide for the needy. The expensive trips are now presented as optional. The fee structure was completely revamped,taking some pressure off of the Boosters, yet creating new challenges There are also new guidelines for dealing with Booster clubs. As with anything, enforcement is hard. They are supposed to check their non-profit status, have meeting minutes in the front office, etc. Resistance is human nature.

I see some of this with athletics, although it is different in that you are not dealing with a class situation. You still can't have mandatory fundraising or mandatory contributions. Families are supposed to pay at cost for the things their child uses. Just because you want to replace a scoreboard, for example, you can't assess every family who signs their kid up for a sport $100. School activity funds are public funds, athletics counts, and that is right there in the 5810. It always was, but they added that these are public funds in the opening paragraphs. People forgot about that.

I think Fcps has set an example for school systems across the state and the country with their revamping of the music class fee structure as well as some other things. I don't agree with using boosters to keep track of student payments and a couple of other things, but at least the records are in a school computer and the money is is a school account now, the insurance situation is where it needs to be, an employee signs the checks, contracts with staff, etc. That is the way it is supposed to be. That is the LAW.

I think this Athletic situation can be fixed. If they were able to accomplish all this with the music programs, there is hope. This isn't going to be easy, particularly with the people who bought lifetime passes. I don't have enough details on this situation, and you folks are just going to have to work this out. There are some very bright people in the business department. The problem seems to be making decisions, laying down the law, instigating and communicating and enforcing change. This is very typical of large government organizations. Whatever is worked out, remember that the world will not end. Things are going to be different, but eventually it will just be normal. Good luck.

Miami dade ps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS is too big of a school district to not have
> control over the boosters.
>
> Miami dade doesn't play. They have a 35 page
> manual describing he relationship with sports
> boosters.
>
> Principals approve any correspondence and any
> fundraising must be approved.

Fundraisers are supposed to be approved already.

It was mentioned that correspondences from boosters to parents have to be approved in other school systems. The bills for class fees now have to be presented on school letterhead and requests for money from music boosters are supposed to be clearly marked as optional. These are technically independent organizations, so it gets sticky. However, everybody has to follow school regs and state laws. Problem is, it is hard for volunteers to keep track of all this. The school system is required via their fraud waste and abuse program and risk management, etc. to address any problems that arise from outside organizations dealing with students and approaching parents. It would make sense to have an agreement to have all booster communications cleared with a staff member before sending out to hundreds of people. They already have to clear anything sent home with children in their backpacks from outside organizations. I would think that could be extended to announcements and things from booster clubs to families. Not a big difference. The music boosters were sending stuff out and people thought it was school issued. Sometimes it was, sometimes not. I think some of them were using various types of collections procedures trying to collect on things that they technically didn't have the right to collect on (since only the school system can assess a class fee). I can only imagine what went on over the years.

While you are all arguing about the athletic passes, Chantilly drama boosters are doing the exact same thing with including passes to shows in booster memberships. Click on becoming a member to see it. Chantilly uses a system called Vendini to sell tickets. Don't know anything about it.
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They DON'T mess around in Miami. This just goes to show what a mess was created over the years. Booster clubs are not allowed to use the name of the school in their title. No door to door fundraising or roadside fundraising (think of all those kids we allow to stand in the middle of traffic with car wash signs). Only the school system can charge a fee, and these run through Internal Accounts. This just goes to show that the changes in Booster clubs are not exclusive to this area. Looking at this, I still can't believe it took FOUR YEARS to clean up the music Boosters. Don't get me going.....

I like the bold type and the underlining.
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......

Are you having lots of fun arguments with arrogant, obnoxious people?

I want to know what happened with the people who put out 3500 bucks at Westfield and thought they were set for life......
Anybody know?

Thought this deserved a bump.