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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 21, 2009 10:22AM

Does anyone know of a website for elementary schools against the time changes? I can't access Waples Mill elementary's PTA info, because my kids aren't in the school yet.

I do not want Waples Mill elementary school to start at 7:50am, it's ridiculous. In fact, no elementary school should start that early. Not all kids have parents at a bus stop. Some little kids as young as 5 years old could end up having to stand IN THE DARK at 7am in the winter months at a bus stop by themselves. Not safe. And my husband won't see our kids at all, since the kids will be going to bed so very early if they have to be up by 6am. Family time is important, FCPS.

On another note, the Sun Gazette for Oakton, Vienna, McLean, Great Falls did not have any articles nor opinions in their Feb. 19th issue (nor in the Feb. 12th issue) having to do with the proposed school times changes. Nothing. It looks to me like they are trying to keep people from finding out about the school time changes. Unbelievable. I've only noticed one article about this issue in their Feb. 5th paper that said that there is a proposal for school times, but they didn't specifically say that it would affect elementary schools and middle schools.

I saw the Channel 8 news debate with the SLEEP people versus WAKE. It was a lopsided debate from the get go. The SLEEP side had 2 people, while they WAKE side only had one. And they barely even let the people calling in say anything.

We're going to have to turn out in large numbers next week at the meetings, so PEOPLE AGAINST THE PROPOSED TIME CHANGES, GO TO THE MEETINGS AND BRING YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY!

Thanks, Steve, for starting this thread.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: aparent ()
Date: February 21, 2009 11:59AM

Totally Anonymous,

Go to the FCPS website and fill out the survey there.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 21, 2009 01:12PM

aparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totally Anonymous,
>
> Go to the FCPS website and fill out the survey
> there.

Just keep in mind as Guster pointed out earlier, that the online survey set up by FCPS is an invitation for very skewed results (a person can take this survey more than once)

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Liam ()
Date: February 21, 2009 01:39PM

Skewd? They're definately something. The blackboard survey for students wouldn't accept a survey unless all questions were answered, so my 5th grader had to play eeny meeny when it asked about how the prop. would affect her employment.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 22, 2009 07:42AM

Perhaps this is part of the problem for some teens:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/21/AR2009022101863.html


The comments under 'ithink2' are me. Might as well declare it here.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 22, 2009 10:32AM

Totally Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I do not want Waples Mill elementary school to
> start at 7:50am, it's ridiculous. In fact, no
> elementary school should start that early. Not all
> kids have parents at a bus stop. Some little kids
> as young as 5 years old could end up having to
> stand IN THE DARK at 7am in the winter months at a
> bus stop by themselves.

Okay, if you're a parent of a five year old and you leave them at a bus stop alone, child service needs to get involved. It's illegal to leave a child that young alone for ANY period of time. So, while I'm sure there are some idiots that might do that, it's not an expected course of action. You are grasping at straws to come up with arguments against the time changes.

Reports from the NAtional Sleep Institute and from MULTIPLE school districts across the country have shown that starting high school students later works better, better grades, better performance, less accidents, better attendance, less illness, better attitudes.
>
> On another note, the Sun Gazette for Oakton,
> Vienna, McLean, Great Falls did not have any
> articles nor opinions in their Feb. 19th issue
> (nor in the Feb. 12th issue) having to do with the
> proposed school times changes. Nothing. It looks
> to me like they are trying to keep people from
> finding out about the school time changes.

It's not a secret, it's been on the news, in the Post and many local papers, and if you're at all interested in the schools, they've sent notifications. PLus, if you follow the school board actions, you'd have to have been living under a rock not to have heard about this.

>
> I saw the Channel 8 news debate with the SLEEP
> people versus WAKE. It was a lopsided debate from
> the get go. The SLEEP side had 2 people, while
> they WAKE side only had one. And they barely even
> let the people calling in say anything.

Perhaps WAKE only had one person because there are no reports that support keeping high schoolers starting earlier.

>
> We're going to have to turn out in large numbers
> next week at the meetings, so PEOPLE AGAINST THE
> PROPOSED TIME CHANGES, GO TO THE MEETINGS AND
> BRING YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY!
>
Make sure you find some scientific evidence to support your position. So far, I haven't seen any. NSF and NIH have studies that do support starting high schoolers later. Maybe you should read up on those.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: February 22, 2009 11:00AM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totally Anonymous Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I do not want Waples Mill elementary school to
> > start at 7:50am, it's ridiculous. In fact, no
> > elementary school should start that early. Not
> all
> > kids have parents at a bus stop. Some little
> kids
> > as young as 5 years old could end up having to
> > stand IN THE DARK at 7am in the winter months at
> a
> > bus stop by themselves.
>
> Okay, if you're a parent of a five year old and
> you leave them at a bus stop alone, child service
> needs to get involved. It's illegal to leave a
> child that young alone for ANY period of time. So,
> while I'm sure there are some idiots that might do
> that, it's not an expected course of action. You
> are grasping at straws to come up with arguments
> against the time changes.
>
> Reports from the NAtional Sleep Institute and from
> MULTIPLE school districts across the country have
> shown that starting high school students later
> works better, better grades, better performance,
> less accidents, better attendance, less illness,
> better attitudes.
> >
> > On another note, the Sun Gazette for Oakton,
> > Vienna, McLean, Great Falls did not have any
> > articles nor opinions in their Feb. 19th issue
> > (nor in the Feb. 12th issue) having to do with
> the
> > proposed school times changes. Nothing. It
> looks
> > to me like they are trying to keep people from
> > finding out about the school time changes.
>
> It's not a secret, it's been on the news, in the
> Post and many local papers, and if you're at all
> interested in the schools, they've sent
> notifications. PLus, if you follow the school
> board actions, you'd have to have been living
> under a rock not to have heard about this.
>
> >
> > I saw the Channel 8 news debate with the SLEEP
> > people versus WAKE. It was a lopsided debate
> from
> > the get go. The SLEEP side had 2 people, while
> > they WAKE side only had one. And they barely
> even
> > let the people calling in say anything.
>
> Perhaps WAKE only had one person because there are
> no reports that support keeping high schoolers
> starting earlier.
>
> >
> > We're going to have to turn out in large
> numbers
> > next week at the meetings, so PEOPLE AGAINST
> THE
> > PROPOSED TIME CHANGES, GO TO THE MEETINGS AND
> > BRING YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY!
> >
> Make sure you find some scientific evidence to
> support your position. So far, I haven't seen
> any. NSF and NIH have studies that do support
> starting high schoolers later. Maybe you should
> read up on those.

Totally Anonymous will change her position as her children age. Just wait until your middle schooler and then high schooler have to catch the bus at 6:30. Franklin Middle School is a significant distance away and the Franklin bus comes just five minutes after the Oakton bus. Way too early - it is ridiculous.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Jackie-O! ()
Date: February 22, 2009 12:24PM

That family that let their texting stats be published in the paper should be so embarrassed. Seems like it should be a crime for one kid to text so much.

If the high school kids truly must have more sleep, do not do it at the expense of others. Figure out a way that the other kids do not suffer. The elem. kids need just as much sleep if not more than the H.S kids. And the poor middle school kids, losing all the after school programs and having so much time at home without any adult supervision.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 22, 2009 12:42PM

Suburbanite and oaktonmom,

Go back and reread what I wrote.

I oppose the proposed bell schedule because of its impacts on the whole community. The proposal favors the minority (families with high schoolers who want later start times for themselves), and causes various problems for the majority (elementary school families, middles school families, high school families who want to keep the current start times, all the teachers, coaches and others who work for FCPS, and everyone's commuting times in Fairfax County even if they don't have kids).

I never said above that I don't want high school kids to sleep more. I just don't think everyone in the whole community should have everything changed upside down so that the minority can get what they want.

To those who want high schooler's times changed: oppose this proposal and then later come up with a proposal that satisfies the majority of the people, not the minority. It is ridiculous how this proposal has pitted families against each other. The proposal is the problem, it needs to be opposed.

On a personal level, I don't want Waples Mill elementary to start at 7:50am. It would disrupt my young children's sleep and my husband's work schedule. Little kids need to sleep, too. To read other people's points-of-view who oppose the proposal (and who are in the majority), click on the link below:

http://wakefairfax.googlepages.com/feedback

Letters are the top of the above link. Scroll down to also read many personal stories of how the proposal would negatively affect people's lives.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 22, 2009 12:42PM

Suburbanite--you sound like a real charmer (sarcasm). Everyone who disagrees with you is clearly a moron in your eyes.

Not one person in the SLEEP Nazi activist brigade has addressed parents' concerns about the elementary and middle school times, nor the ending of the after school programs for middle school students. Apparently you have no answers.

But please keep posting here. Your attitude says much about the narcissism and arrogance of these mothers who think they know better than anyone else.

It's clear that people need sleep. But it's also obvious that teens who are not getting enough sleep have other problems in their lives (like pathetic parents). Changing the schedules does not fix those home environments that lack support.

Or, at the very least: Let Langley and McLean High Schools change their times, as an experiment. Then the county can see if it indeed makes any significant improvement in the preparedness of the students. Why make a county-wide upheaval involving all schedules when no one is absolutely certain it's going to help?

Read the Washington Post "Texting" article today. Some parents (even with education, social position and money) just can't do their jobs of raising children well. They are afraid to say no or deprive their child of the pleasures of texting.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 22, 2009 12:55PM

Totally Anonymous, thank you for posting, and keep posting! Unfortunately, many of these women delude themselves into believing that they (and they alone) have the answers for the rest of us who are wandering in the desert. They actually believe that without their guidance, the system is going to fall apart.

They should focus on their own students/families and let others work on theirs.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: straws ()
Date: February 22, 2009 01:05PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totally Anonymous Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I do not want Waples Mill elementary school to
> > start at 7:50am, it's ridiculous. In fact, no
> > elementary school should start that early. Not
> all
> > kids have parents at a bus stop. Some little
> kids
> > as young as 5 years old could end up having to
> > stand IN THE DARK at 7am in the winter months at
> a
> > bus stop by themselves.
>
> Okay, if you're a parent of a five year old and
> you leave them at a bus stop alone, child service
> needs to get involved. It's illegal to leave a
> child that young alone for ANY period of time. So,
> while I'm sure there are some idiots that might do
> that, it's not an expected course of action. You
> are grasping at straws to come up with arguments
> against the time changes.
>
Hello, you dip, there are parents in this county who have to work and who cannot afford childcare if they can even find a spot in our busting at the seams day care facilities. Have you ever driven around the county (not your community of lazy bums) during the elementary school bus pick up? There are loads of young kids standing at the bus stop without their parents. Child services might actually be the welcomed child care that most caring parents can't afford or even find. It is a fact of life. It is clear by your brilliant postings that you have never spent a day with your nose outside of your papers or have bothered to look around at how most people live in this county.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: retsug ()
Date: February 22, 2009 01:07PM

Robin Hood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> aparent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Totally Anonymous,
> >
> > Go to the FCPS website and fill out the survey
> > there.
>
> Just keep in mind as Guster pointed out earlier,
> that the online survey set up by FCPS is an
> invitation for very skewed results (a person can
> take this survey more than once)


Good, keep skewing in favor of "wake up and get your lazy ass out of bed and to school on time"

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: NativeVA ()
Date: February 22, 2009 01:11PM

Guster
Why are you continuing to ignore the various research that has been found in support of later high school start times?

You continually claim anyone who supports this is 'pampering' their kids yet you cite nothing to support your own position except your own whining.

Come up with scientific research to support your side. The supporters of the change have the research, where is yours?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 22, 2009 01:37PM

Hi NativeVA--Thanks for letting people know your origin. We know how important that heritage is to your identity and sense of self-worth.

No one is ignoring your precious sleep research. The research says teens need sleep. We all need sleep. If parents are unsuccessful at helping their teens, then they need to find out how to be better at parenting within their own family routines.

NativeVA, your attempts to brand my posts as whining are passive aggressive strategies that only make you look ridiculous. The SLEEP parent activists have conveniently ignored answering people's questions about middle school programs and elementary school schedules.

Your northern Virginia drama is silly. So grateful that we never purchased a home here. Have fun trying to get your way.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Steve K ()
Date: February 22, 2009 02:37PM

NativeVA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guster
> Why are you continuing to ignore the various
> research that has been found in support of later
> high school start times?
>
> You continually claim anyone who supports this is
> 'pampering' their kids yet you cite nothing to
> support your own position except your own
> whining.
>
> Come up with scientific research to support your
> side. The supporters of the change have the
> research, where is yours?


Here is the fact native, the early school start times have worked for decades, why change now? Ironically right when we dumbed down our standards with the grading scale.

Guster hit it right on the nose, if kids need more sleep, have them get ot bed earlier. Duh more sleep helps teens, but pushing the day back will not lead to more sleep it will lead to kids staying up later. Even if it was beneficial, it has a major negative impact on elementary and middle school families.

The SLEEP proposal calls for changes that negatively affect way too many aspects of family life, child care, sports and come on middle school not getting out till nearly 5 in the afternoon. WAKE up.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 22, 2009 02:47PM

Steve K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NativeVA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guster
> > Why are you continuing to ignore the various
> > research that has been found in support of
> later
> > high school start times?
> >
> > You continually claim anyone who supports this
> is
> > 'pampering' their kids yet you cite nothing to
> > support your own position except your own
> > whining.
> >
> > Come up with scientific research to support
> your
> > side. The supporters of the change have the
> > research, where is yours?
>
>
> Here is the fact native, the early school start
> times have worked for decades, why change now?
> Ironically right when we dumbed down our standards
> with the grading scale.
>
> Guster hit it right on the nose, if kids need more
> sleep, have them get ot bed earlier. Duh more
> sleep helps teens, but pushing the day back will
> not lead to more sleep it will lead to kids
> staying up later. Even if it was beneficial, it
> has a major negative impact on elementary and
> middle school families.
>
> The SLEEP proposal calls for changes that
> negatively affect way too many aspects of family
> life, child care, sports and come on middle school
> not getting out till nearly 5 in the afternoon.
> WAKE up.


I agree, Steve. In one of Suburbanite's earlier posts something about the teens having a circada effect on their bodies associating with sleep, I found it to be such a hoot. I grew up just about all my life in Fairfax County and was a product of FCPS schools. My siblings and I did not have a problem with the bell schedules for elementary, middle and high school. I have a kid who is a high schooler now and I make her go to bed at 10 pm and make sure her cell phone is with me. She doesn't have a tv or a computer in her room. All it takes is common sense parenting and again, I still find it a hoot that SLEEP activists find that teens have a circada effect on their bodies. And oh, yes, I find the proposed middle school bell schedule absolutely stupid along with the elementary school proposed bell schedules. I am going to check with my friends who live in Colorado. I believe their middle school bell schedule is similar to the propsed schedule here and the mom has complained to me about it. I will doublecheck and do another post later about what I find out from my friend.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: tubby ()
Date: February 22, 2009 03:02PM

Hey, I have an idea....make SLEEP an elective course!

Make it available for first period only. Then mama can fire up the Benz and take 'em to school....all rested up.

Also, everybody gets an A in SLEEP....so we kill two birds with one stone!

Whatta ya think?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 22, 2009 04:16PM

Here is a SLEEP coordinator's letter that Liam referred to earlier:


http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=324705&paper=66&cat=110


After wading through Ms. Priebe's "I would like to..."s, you can see the words are carefully selected to brand anyone opposed to the county-wide change as fearful and uninformed: "I would like to reassure these parents that their fears of permanent and crippling disruption are unfounded..."

Another sample: "The proposed bell schedule takes into account the sleep needs, learning windows, and biological clocks of both elementary-age children and teens."

Learning windows? So do these parents plan to do this when their children enter college? Complain that the microbiology course is not offered during their child's optimal learning window?

This drama is not about helping the disadvantaged students down on Richmond Highway. The middle schools, according to the schools and teachers, will lose their after-school assistance times, clubs, and late buses.

Parents with young elementary students will not appreciate the 7:50 am start times, especially if their students are in a foreign language immersion program in another area of the county.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 22, 2009 05:15PM

It's amusing how Guster still hasn't come up with any research to support teens going in early, and yet continues to call others names. NativeVA may look ridiculous to you, guster, but you come across as a drama queen that has no real substance as you continue to throw names at anyone who disagrees with you.

As for answering questions regarding the elementary and middle school times, read the reports from the county Task force. The proposed schedule isn't perfect, but then neither is the current schedule. The proposed one incurs no additional costs to the county, and it also allows for altering start times after implementation.

As for the current schedule working 'just fine', evidently it's not, MANY people have complained, teachers, administrators, students, parents. Try reading the task force report and maybe even reading some of the other studies.

And 'making' someone go to bed isn't the issue, according to the studies, teenagers are biologically set to go to sleep later and wake later. If your sixteen year old had no problem going to sleep at 9 or 10, they more than likely are sleep deprived. Making someone go to sleep isn't a particularly easy thing, and not everyone's teens have cell phones, tvs, computers and other such garbage in their rooms.

BTW, this has been an entertaining debate. Thanks.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Sleepmask ()
Date: February 22, 2009 05:22PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's amusing how Guster still hasn't come up with
> any research to support teens going in early, and
> yet continues to call others names. NativeVA may
> look ridiculous to you, guster, but you come
> across as a drama queen that has no real substance
> as you continue to throw names at anyone who
> disagrees with you.
>
> As for answering questions regarding the
> elementary and middle school times, read the
> reports from the county Task force. The proposed
> schedule isn't perfect, but then neither is the
> current schedule. The proposed one incurs no
> additional costs to the county, and it also allows
> for altering start times after implementation.
>
> As for the current schedule working 'just fine',
> evidently it's not, MANY people have complained,
> teachers, administrators, students, parents. Try
> reading the task force report and maybe even
> reading some of the other studies.
>
> And 'making' someone go to bed isn't the issue,
> according to the studies, teenagers are
> biologically set to go to sleep later and wake
> later. If your sixteen year old had no problem
> going to sleep at 9 or 10, they more than likely
> are sleep deprived. Making someone go to sleep
> isn't a particularly easy thing, and not
> everyone's teens have cell phones, tvs, computers
> and other such garbage in their rooms.
>
> BTW, this has been an entertaining debate. Thanks.



You will soon get your WAKE-UP Call! It will not be pretty once you see the out-pouring of protests. Be sure to take the curlers out of your hair before you show up at one of the community meetings. You wouldn't want the pitchfork masses to blatantly associate you with the very unpopular, selfishly, synchophant SLEEP proposal.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: After School ()
Date: February 22, 2009 05:33PM

This proposal would be great for our current HS students. Research does show that their internal clocks would link up with the proposed schedule much better than the current schedule. However, any benefits would be short lived since the proposed schedule would lead to an elimination of middle school after school programs (very effective in a lot of our higher poverty schools), and any other after school remediation and enrichment opportunities.
A common response I have seen to this is to offer the opportunities before school. The lack of available transportation before school (FCPS buses will be tied up with elem. and HS runs) means that the majority of the kids who need the help wouldn't be able to get to school before the day starts.
I dont see the common sense in setting up a system that might show some positive results for a couple of years, but will do irreparable damage for the future of our current middle school students.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: BTW ()
Date: February 22, 2009 05:43PM

Suburbanite, The teachers are so against this! Especially the middle school teachers. Don't forget they too have children in the county schools.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 22, 2009 05:58PM

Thank you, After School, for contributing a helpful and non-hypocritical post. In an ideal world, a high school should start between 8 and 9 am. Due to the complex nature of this region, it might be possible if there are more buses to do the high school runs so the middle school times can remain close to the same.

Irving Middle School in West Springfield sent out e-mails stating if this proposal is accepted, they will NOT offer programs in the morning before school. The economically disadvantaged students along Richmond Highway will no longer be able to stay after school to get extra help or participate in clubs and activities. No late buses; school will end at 4:30pm and they'll be stuck in traffic in the crush of cars on Route 1 at 5 pm.

Ah, research data. It doesn't really prove anything. One can drum up studies on just about any position imaginable to do a lot of posturing/blustering to try support any thought at all.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Liam ()
Date: February 22, 2009 09:26PM

Suburanite: Yes, I read the TTF report. DID YOU READ THE MINORITY REPORT? 24-19. Not much of a majority, eh? SKewed, slanted and only the priveledged need apply. SLEEP NAZIS are creating problems just to fill a program. In this economy and with the FFXC budget shortfall, the SB and BoS are not going to address any of the problems created unless citizens mount another loud, contentious fight against those influential minorities who impose their agenda on the majority. (and when you insult that point , I'll do the math for you) Further, it is not a zero cost item. Say it over and over if you must. It's not free. In additon, the entire bell schedule has been pushed back an hour just to fit SLEEPS agenda, it's not merely swapping bus schedules. You're right, it's not perfect, far from it. Far more harmful than the current bell schedule and it will not get better as you declare

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 22, 2009 11:02PM

I think it's time to go back to the drawing board. Parents should research what they do in other school districts, then see if FCPS is normal or out of line. If other school districts can find ways to start all or almost all their schools between 8 AM and 9 AM and still maintain extra-curricular activities, then parents should figure out what FCPS would have to do to achieve that goal.

It might be as easy as cutting some of the 1750 central headquarters staff that Superintendent Dale wants to house in Gatehouse 1 and Gatehouse 2, and using part of the savings to pay for new buses and more bus drivers.

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you, After School, for contributing a
> helpful and non-hypocritical post. In an ideal
> world, a high school should start between 8 and 9
> am. Due to the complex nature of this region, it
> might be possible if there are more buses to do
> the high school runs so the middle school times
> can remain close to the same.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Hahahaha, why would they? ()
Date: February 23, 2009 12:23AM

AS IF they would ever agree to cutting Dale's staff or his 17 assistant administrators. why would they agree to that, just to add buses and bus drivers? None of those staff members are going to agree to sacrifice their nice job for a bunch of buses and bus drivers, just because it would benefit students.

Get a clue. They never do anything for the benefit of anyone other than themselves. Why would they?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: After School ()
Date: February 23, 2009 07:38AM

My guess would be that most districts who are able to get everyone to school around the same time are either in areas where a large number of the kids can walk, or in areas with a much smaller overall enrollment than FCPS. When you are trying to get 170,000 kids to school you either need to buy a mess load of buses or stagger starting times the way FCPS does.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Beep ()
Date: February 23, 2009 08:07AM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you, After School, for contributing a
> helpful and non-hypocritical post. In an ideal
> world, a high school should start between 8 and 9
> am. Due to the complex nature of this region, it
> might be possible if there are more buses to do
> the high school runs so the middle school times
> can remain close to the same.
>
> Irving Middle School in West Springfield sent out
> e-mails stating if this proposal is accepted, they
> will NOT offer programs in the morning before
> school. The economically disadvantaged students
> along Richmond Highway will no longer be able to
> stay after school to get extra help or
> participate in clubs and activities. No late
> buses; school will end at 4:30pm and they'll be
> stuck in traffic in the crush of cars on Route 1
> at 5 pm.
>
> Ah, research data. It doesn't really prove
> anything. One can drum up studies on just about
> any position imaginable to do a lot of
> posturing/blustering to try support any thought at
> all.

Your best approach is to show the "research" that depicts all the rush hour traffic patterns with the school buses feeding into this traffic. Nothing more compelling to dump this Sleep Plan than imagining a load of middle school kids sitting on a school bus in the middle of traffic on Rt. 1, Rt. 7, Ffx Co Pwky. Clifton Rd., Columbia Pike, etc during rush hour.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 23, 2009 08:32AM

After School Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My guess would be that most districts who are able
> to get everyone to school around the same time are
> either in areas where a large number of the kids
> can walk, or in areas with a much smaller overall
> enrollment than FCPS. When you are trying to get
> 170,000 kids to school you either need to buy a
> mess load of buses or stagger starting times the
> way FCPS does.

Not to mention a very complicated traffic system like we have here. Ideally it would be beneficial for students in all levels of schools to start at around the same time, but around here, it would be way to difficult to implement the proposed bell times. This SLEEP initiative won't work well here. We would have the worst traffic of the century and presently we do not have a huge academic performance problem across the board for schools around here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 23, 2009 09:32AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 23, 2009 10:10AM

For those of you who were asking for research to back up the opposition to the proposal, here it is, straight from The Sleep Foundation:

"One solution that has worked to solve this problem is flipping start times, most commonly elementary with high school. This solution requires no extra buses or drivers, just a change in the order of pickups. This schedule also seems to be more appropriate to elementary school students’ sleep schedules, because young children tend to wake up earlier in the morning. This is a very dicey issue; however, in districts where the start time is quite early. If the young students have to go to school so early, they have to go to bed VERY early (because they need 10 - 11 hours of sleep). Parents may not get home from work until very near or after bedtime. The direct flip cannot work unless all start times are reasonable."*

*Quote from the article "Eight Major Obstacles to Delaying School Start Times", 1. Transportation, second paragraph at: http://www.sleepfoundation.org/site/c.huIXKjM0IxF/b.2511881/k.A14A/Eight_Major_Obstacles_to_Delaying_High_School_Start_Times.htm

Now, The Sleep Foundation itself said that start times need to be reasonable. In our area, with all the traffic, 7:50 is not a reasonable start time for elementary schools. For example, let's say a 5 year old's bus stop pickup time is 7am, the earliest possible time. Let's say the parents have to wake up their kid at 6am. That would mean that in order to get 11 hours of sleep, the 5 year old would have to fall asleep by 7pm the night before. So, dinner, family time, and the whole bed time routine (bath time, reading books, and then actually falling asleep) would have to be finished before 7pm. Ridiculous. It's not going to happen. Even if you didn't wake up your kid in the morning until 6:30 am, I still doubt that dinner, family time, and bed time could get done by 7:30pm.

Feel free to use this at the meetings to oppose the bell proposal. The meetings are tomorrow, Wed., and Thurs.

Thanks, guster, I hope you keep posting as well because I also liked your idea to just try new start times on one high school. I also liked APorlBMom's idea to look into reasonable times for everyone.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 23, 2009 11:20AM

I made a mistake, it's called National Sleep Foundation. Who needs a sleep foundation? (Oh, yes, the SLEEP people need it.) What's next, an Eat Foundation to tell you that you need to eat?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: vienna ()
Date: February 23, 2009 11:35AM

I agree that no matter what we try our teenagers still can't fall asleep before 11:00pm.

These posts about parents coddling their children are addressing only the few. I have to wonder about the parents that are so adamant that this new schedule will endanger their child's sports career. Perhaps they're trying to live their dreams through their kids. My children's health and future comes first and if that means changing my schedule then so be it. It was my decision to have children and now, yes, I make sacrifices.

If parents and students feel the need to be up at dawn to in order to participate in sports (other activities seem to fit in fine with the new proposed schedule), then the practices can be held before school starts. I'm sure the rec center pools are more available then. This way everyone gets what they want.

For years the bell schedule has favored the needs of a minority of students and parents. Now it's time to make a change and finally favor our students needs.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: ToSuboobanite ()
Date: February 23, 2009 01:36PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's amusing how Guster still hasn't come up with
> any research to support teens going in early, and
> yet continues to call others names. NativeVA may
> look ridiculous to you, guster, but you come
> across as a drama queen that has no real substance
> as you continue to throw names at anyone who
> disagrees with you.
>
> As for answering questions regarding the
> elementary and middle school times, read the
> reports from the county Task force. The proposed
> schedule isn't perfect, but then neither is the
> current schedule. The proposed one incurs no
> additional costs to the county, and it also allows
> for altering start times after implementation.
>
> As for the current schedule working 'just fine',
> evidently it's not, MANY people have complained,
> teachers, administrators, students, parents. Try
> reading the task force report and maybe even
> reading some of the other studies.
>
> And 'making' someone go to bed isn't the issue,
> according to the studies, teenagers are
> biologically set to go to sleep later and wake
> later. If your sixteen year old had no problem
> going to sleep at 9 or 10, they more than likely
> are sleep deprived. Making someone go to sleep
> isn't a particularly easy thing, and not
> everyone's teens have cell phones, tvs, computers
> and other such garbage in their rooms.
>
> BTW, this has been an entertaining debate. Thanks.

Research shows that NyQuil and Benadryl help your teen go to bed on time, Phyllis.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Reese ()
Date: February 23, 2009 01:39PM

vienna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that no matter what we try our teenagers
> still can't fall asleep before 11:00pm.
>
> These posts about parents coddling their children
> are addressing only the few. I have to wonder
> about the parents that are so adamant that this
> new schedule will endanger their child's sports
> career. Perhaps they're trying to live their
> dreams through their kids. My children's health
> and future comes first and if that means changing
> my schedule then so be it. It was my decision to
> have children and now, yes, I make sacrifices.
>
> If parents and students feel the need to be up at
> dawn to in order to participate in sports (other
> activities seem to fit in fine with the new
> proposed schedule), then the practices can be held
> before school starts. I'm sure the rec center
> pools are more available then. This way everyone
> gets what they want.
>
> For years the bell schedule has favored the needs
> of a minority of students and parents. Now it's
> time to make a change and finally favor our
> students needs.


It is clear you live in an uneducated bubble--something like Pleasantville. Fortunately for you, the pin-prick is near and you can look forward to the big popping sound when you show up at the community meetings.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: February 23, 2009 02:01PM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suburbanite--you sound like a real charmer
> (sarcasm). Everyone who disagrees with you is
> clearly a moron in your eyes.
>
> Not one person in the SLEEP Nazi activist brigade
> has addressed parents' concerns about the
> elementary and middle school times, nor the ending
> of the after school programs for middle school
> students. Apparently you have no answers.
>
> But please keep posting here. Your attitude says
> much about the narcissism and arrogance of these
> mothers who think they know better than anyone
> else.
>
> It's clear that people need sleep. But it's also
> obvious that teens who are not getting enough
> sleep have other problems in their lives (like
> pathetic parents). Changing the schedules does
> not fix those home environments that lack
> support.
>
> Or, at the very least: Let Langley and McLean
> High Schools change their times, as an experiment.
> Then the county can see if it indeed makes any
> significant improvement in the preparedness of the
> students. Why make a county-wide upheaval
> involving all schedules when no one is absolutely
> certain it's going to help?
>
> Read the Washington Post "Texting" article today.
> Some parents (even with education, social
> position and money) just can't do their jobs of
> raising children well. They are afraid to say no
> or deprive their child of the pleasures of
> texting.

Late to this party...why the venom against McLean parents? The McLean school districts are VERY compact compared to Langley, Madison, Oakton, etc. Is this just class resentment or are McLean parents taking a lead role in advocating for the change in start times? I expect McLean families are split on what's best, just like families in other areas.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 23, 2009 02:37PM

Vague, ambiguous comments like "I agree that no matter what we try our teenagers still can't fall asleep before 11:00pm" (poster "Vienna") mean little. This cannot possibly be a fact for every single household with teens in FCPS, nor in the entire world. In many countries, basic survival is tough enough that they do not agonize about the particulars of sleep. They know they need it, and they get as much as they can, which is what any practical person will do.

If some people have teens with sleep problems, they should first try to change their own priorities *within their families* before resorting to county-wide changes across the entire elementary, middle, and high school schedules.

No one here has mentioned concerns about schedule changes jeopardizing their teens future sports careers. After-school sports practices certainly will be affected, particularly for the middle school students being dismissed at 4:30pm. Many students won't be home until 5pm or later. Right on time for rush hour traffic!

After-school programs serving middle school students will end at many middle schools, particularly those serving more economically disadvantaged students. There will be no programs added in the morning before classes to make up for this loss. No one in favor of SLEEP seems interested in what these middle school students will lose.

This is not serving the greatest number of students in Fairfax County. It benefits a few--Langley, McLean, Lake Braddock get the most added time.

It seems that SLEEP attempts to change the schedule to benefit the well-connected, elite minority in a few select areas (like Langley H.S., with its far-flung boundary) at the expense of the FCPS students in the middle and elementary schools across the county. Then they present this poorly thought out plan as the act of a benevolent team brought together to unselfishly improve the lives of all the people of the county.

Perspective on the middle school programs:

http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/letter/1540/

Not one SLEEP activist addresses the adverse affect the change will have on the middle school schedule, nor the elementary students who will be starting at 7:50am. The focus has been solely on the high school schedule.

My student is at TJ (start time 8:30am) but still must be out the door by 7am to catch the bus to the departure point. Langley and McLean get the best schedules for the TJ buses, from what I've been told. The parents insist on being the top priority.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 23, 2009 02:40PM

Let Langley and McLean change their times, if they feel it will help. But they should not insist on changing the entire schedules of all the middle and elementary schools across the county.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking (demanding?) others to live as one wishes to live." ~ Oscar Wilde

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 23, 2009 03:03PM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vague, ambiguous comments like "I agree that no
> matter what we try our teenagers still can't fall
> asleep before 11:00pm" (poster "Vienna") mean
> little. This cannot possibly be a fact for every
> single household with teens in FCPS, nor in the
> entire world. In many countries, basic survival
> is tough enough that they do not agonize about the
> particulars of sleep. They know they need it, and
> they get as much as they can, which is what any
> practical person will do.
>
> If some people have teens with sleep problems,
> they should first try to change their own
> priorities *within their families* before
> resorting to county-wide changes across the entire
> elementary, middle, and high school schedules.
>
> No one here has mentioned concerns about schedule
> changes jeopardizing their teens future sports
> careers. After-school sports practices certainly
> will be affected, particularly for the middle
> school students being dismissed at 4:30pm. Many
> students won't be home until 5pm or later. Right
> on time for rush hour traffic!
>
> After-school programs serving middle school
> students will end at many middle schools,
> particularly those serving more economically
> disadvantaged students. There will be no programs
> added in the morning before classes to make up for
> this loss. No one in favor of SLEEP seems
> interested in what these middle school students
> will lose.
>
> This is not serving the greatest number of
> students in Fairfax County. It benefits a
> few--Langley, McLean, Lake Braddock get the most
> added time.
>
> It seems that SLEEP attempts to change the
> schedule to benefit the well-connected, elite
> minority in a few select areas (like Langley H.S.,
> with its far-flung boundary) at the expense of the
> FCPS students in the middle and elementary schools
> across the county. Then they present this poorly
> thought out plan as the act of a benevolent team
> brought together to unselfishly improve the lives
> of all the people of the county.
>
> Perspective on the middle school programs:
>
> http://www.fairfaxtimes.com/letter/1540/
>
> Not one SLEEP activist addresses the adverse
> affect the change will have on the middle school
> schedule, nor the elementary students who will be
> starting at 7:50am. The focus has been solely on
> the high school schedule.
>
> My student is at TJ (start time 8:30am) but still
> must be out the door by 7am to catch the bus to
> the departure point. Langley and McLean get the
> best schedules for the TJ buses, from what I've
> been told. The parents insist on being the top
> priority.



Your posts have been interesting and I wholeheartedly agree about Langley and its' "far-flung" boundary as you put in. Langley was one of the most contentious issues during the redistricting fight last year. Anyway back to the point, it will not work well at all with the middle school proposed bell schedule. No way. Numer one is working parents particulary single working parents who are unable to adjust their work schedules to fit the proposed bell schedule and secondly, middle schoolers (not all though) do have activities after school such as sports and clubs like Girls Scouts or Boys Scouts. I do not understand why the SLEEP activists conveniently continue to ignore the elementary and middle school kids' needs. If Langley was able to get what they wanted from the redistricting, then they can get what they want, by providing their own school bus drivers and buses and McLean can follow suit, not at the expense of uprooting the rest of Fairfax County with just an extra hour later time change.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: AmusedBystander ()
Date: February 23, 2009 03:43PM

Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 20, 2009 06:47PM

Does anyone in Fairfax County (teacher, parent, student, any citizen at all) think the middle school schedule proposed by SLEEP of 9:40am-4:30pm is wonderful?



-It's not that far from a current bell schedule for elementary schools of 9:15-3:55.
You make it sound like this is hours later than anything the schools currently have.
It's not. A mere 35 minutes later in the day for your precious pumpkin.

And the schedule isn't proposed by SLEEP, guster, it's proposed by the Fairfax County Transportation Task Force, in which there is a SLEEP representative, but there's also school board members, sports and activities coaches, community activity directors and spokepersons, students, teachers, bus drivers, PTA rep, SACC rep, Police department rep, and numerous others.


Though the articles I've seen about SLEEP make them sound like they're running the show, the task force doesn't appear to be overseen by them. In fact, in the task force report it appears that most favored a different bell schedule from the final proposed one, not sure why the others were rejected. Probably costs.

The SLEEP group do sound like over zealous nuts though.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 23, 2009 03:58PM

Hello AmusedBystander--I'm somewhat amused by it too, because we rent an inexpensive home in a pleasant area and will leave in 2 years to our home in another state. So it truly won't have too much of an effect on my family.

My precious pumpkins are older, and they are quite used to adapting (military kids). We'll be fine.

That does not mean what these SLEEP activists are doing is correct. Sleep is incredibly important to me. I love sleep. But there is more to their intention and plan than just giving most high schools one more hour in the morning. That deceit does not impress me. The audacity to think that they have the only right plan for the rest of the schools (and all the lives that those schools involve) is appalling.

You mentioned the 9:15am-3:55pm schedule. Those are rare, and they are usually elementary schools. Not middle schools. Nearly all the FCPS middle schools begin at 8am and end at approx. 2:55pm.

I don't know how they determine which elementary schools start at 9-9:15am. I asked why at one FCPS school (Dan Storck's school--Waynewood) and one implacable mother said that's what all the parents wanted. Oh. So the school is run by the scary mothers. I get it!

There's some very intelligent and practical people here in Fairfax County, and I try to remember that they are usually the quieter, more perceptive ones.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 23, 2009 04:04PM

According to the local elementary that start at 9 in my area, it's a mandate by the transportation department so they can work out the bus schedules. Not any parent's decision or preference.

But you know, I saw a commercial from some university last night and how everyone learns differently...they were advertising their podcasts and such, maybe that's the answer.

That would take care of the whole run down building issue, eliminate tons of maintenance, buses, and administration. Podcast the lessons. :-)

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: winners and losers ()
Date: February 23, 2009 05:00PM

SLEEP proponents good....SLEEP opponents bad. If they had more sleep themselves, they'd recognize the wisdom of SLEEP. School is for academics...extra curriculars are just that...extra...not needed...can be adapted.

SLEEP nazis will win because SB cannot thwart another parent led revolt (ie., after all the reboundary hoopla). It is a softball to the parents to show the SB listens and responds.

Sorry....


AmusedBystander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Posted by: guster ()
> Date: February 20, 2009 06:47PM
>
> Does anyone in Fairfax County (teacher, parent,
> student, any citizen at all) think the middle
> school schedule proposed by SLEEP of 9:40am-4:30pm
> is wonderful?
>
>
>
> -It's not that far from a current bell schedule
> for elementary schools of 9:15-3:55.
> You make it sound like this is hours later than
> anything the schools currently have.
> It's not. A mere 35 minutes later in the day for
> your precious pumpkin.
>
> And the schedule isn't proposed by SLEEP, guster,
> it's proposed by the Fairfax County Transportation
> Task Force, in which there is a SLEEP
> representative, but there's also school board
> members, sports and activities coaches, community
> activity directors and spokepersons, students,
> teachers, bus drivers, PTA rep, SACC rep, Police
> department rep, and numerous others.
>
>
> Though the articles I've seen about SLEEP make
> them sound like they're running the show, the task
> force doesn't appear to be overseen by them. In
> fact, in the task force report it appears that
> most favored a different bell schedule from the
> final proposed one, not sure why the others were
> rejected. Probably costs.
>
> The SLEEP group do sound like over zealous nuts
> though.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 23, 2009 06:40PM

One theory my husband and I toss around is that the mothers that do rabid activism like the "SLEEP" proposal are frustrated, thwarted women who don't get enough lovin' attention at home from hubby (or whoever).

So they take it out on the rest of the world. They actually believe that other people are as miserable as they are.

It shows how little they really observe in the world.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Lucy ()
Date: February 23, 2009 07:17PM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One theory my husband and I toss around is that
> the mothers that do rabid activism like the
> "SLEEP" proposal are frustrated, thwarted women
> who don't get enough lovin' attention at home from
> hubby (or whoever).
>
> So they take it out on the rest of the world.
> They actually believe that other people are as
> miserable as they are.
>
> It shows how little they really observe in the
> world.


If that were the case, you would think they got enough sleep.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Liam ()
Date: February 23, 2009 10:20PM

Oh please, Vienna. You sound like a jealous co-ed when you and your ilk attack and disparage the students who play sports.
Good grief, have I seen you on Dateline? It's really laughable to see the Sleep Nazis attack students who play sports and their parents. Health, well being and nutrician are paramount in our family as it is in most athletes' families. Duh. Students who are active in sports and extra curriculars are more well rounded, less depressed,less likely to do drugs, more fit, and do well in school- you know, the academic part you Nazis espouse as the ONLY issue in this debate. Under your proposal our middle schoolers are screwed and our elementary schoolers are deprived of sleep.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 24, 2009 07:48AM

SLEEP proponents good....SLEEP opponents bad. If they had more sleep themselves, they'd recognize the wisdom of SLEEP. School is for academics...extra curriculars are just that...extra...not needed...can be adapted.

SLEEP nazis will win because SB cannot thwart another parent led revolt (ie., after all the reboundary hoopla). It is a softball to the parents to show the SB listens and responds.

Sorry.... (quoting winners and losers, above)
???????????????

Patronizing assumptions in the above post:

You assume the SLEEP opponents need more sleep. If they actually needed more sleep, they would be in favor of the SLEEP proposal, wouldn't they? Just because you glibly say opponents of SLEEP need more sleep does not mean it is true. That's just popping off.

You also assume the Langley/McLean parents have the power and influence to dictate the school board and FCPS decisions. Given recent events, perhaps that is true. That does not make it CORRECT. The well-connected minority overrunning the rest of the people in the county is an abuse of the system. I hear that's what school board member Janie Strauss does--work under the radar to keep the Langley/McLean citizens happy. Goodness knows they raise an awful stink if they don't get their way. (I have encountered one couple who was not like this; unfortunately, they are the rare exception.)

The proposed elementary and middle school schedules are terrible for the students, parents, and staff. The SLEEP Nazis have failed to come up with even one well-written post on this site. They continue to ignore direct questions about after school programs for economically disadvantaged students at the middle schools. Classic.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 08:48AM

Liam, based on the studies of sleep cycles, the elementary school kids already get up earlier and are at their best early in the morning, so it isn't depriving them of sleep. It's unlikely any age gets or will get the recommended maximum sleep. Our society demands too much of everyone and everyone wants to do too many things. THe point of shifting the schedule is to allow elementary kids the best schedule for their best learning time and address the same issue with the high school kids.

You are somewhat correct in saying the middle schoolers are screwed. No one want to go to school, let alone go til 4 something. But since we have such a large school population, someone is going to get the short straw. Since high school grades are what colleges look at and are what is necessary to graduate, they shouldn't be the ones getting screwed with a scientifically proven fact that they are mostly still asleep at 7:30 in the morning and are missing out on most of the first and sometimes second period class lessons.

Guster, interesting how you accuse others of popping off, most of your posts are just that. And it's also interesting how you continue to spout off about how no one ever responds to your requests for responses to the schedule regarding after school and elem/middle times. I've posted repeatedly to read the reports, task force reports, NIH and NSF reports, but you conveniently ignore those. You haven't once given any solid evidence to anything you've said. You have managed to 'pop off' with a variety of sensationalist name calling though. Very mature.

Just because you claim the proponents of the new schedule are Nazis or a minority does not make it so. I would find your position a lot more persuavise if you didn't sound like a teenager that doesn't know how to do any research. Instead you remind of some of the media with dramatic names and accusations and no real substance.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 24, 2009 09:00AM

Suburbanite, the middle school times will end after school tutoring/assistance for students that need it. That is academic and not sports-related. You have repeatedly mentioned task force reports and NIH/NSF studies, but they don't address the problem of middle school programs for the at-risk students.

How will these students' academic needs be met through the SLEEP plan?

Please keep posting here. It only serves to reveal more of your narcissistic character. I am sure you think your ample ego is convincing the readers here.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 24, 2009 09:15AM

The elementary school communities do not want to start at 7:50 am. Middle school parents, staff and students do not want a 9:40am-4:30pm schedule.

The posts on here show that the SLEEP proponents are in the minority.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Liam ()
Date: February 24, 2009 09:37AM

Suburbanite argues against herself and makes WAKES point for us. Thank you. The Sleep Nazis bible, the National Sleep Foundation's research, admits that elementary school children need more and will likely get less sleep. Sleep cherry picks the research they site.

Someone has to get the short straw??????? So it may as well be the vulnerable 12-15 year olds right? IT SHOULDN'T BE ANY STUDENT! What a loathsome thing so say. Very telling about the mindset of the sleep proponents.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Unimpressed ()
Date: February 24, 2009 09:43AM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The elementary school communities do not want to
> start at 7:50 am. Middle school parents, staff
> and students do not want a 9:40am-4:30pm schedule.
>
>
> The posts on here show that the SLEEP proponents
> are in the minority.

The fact that you and a few of your pals post 100 times on the same issue does not mean that you're in the majority. Some parents think the current proposals, while imperfect, are better than the current situation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 09:46AM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suburbanite, the middle school times will end
> after school tutoring/assistance for students that
> need it. That is academic and not sports-related.
> You have repeatedly mentioned task force reports
> and NIH/NSF studies, but they don't address the
> problem of middle school programs for the at-risk
> students.
>
> How will these students' academic needs be met
> through the SLEEP plan?
>
> Please keep posting here. It only serves to
> reveal more of your narcissistic character. I am
> sure you think your ample ego is convincing the
> readers here.

Not at all, guster, I'm just enjoying the debate. Everyone needs to make their own decision based on the information out there. You are the one that seems to feel everyone is going to just agree with you because you are yelling the loudest and most obnoxiously, (nazis and all that).

Studies from other counties, including loudon and arlington, have shown starting high school later works and I haven't been able to find one school system that has switched to later start times that decided to go back. In fact, one county had considerable doubts, makes me think of you actually, and after the change the fears were found to be groundless and the community has no desire to switch back now.

Other systems have shown, and this is in the reports, that approximately the same number of kids come in before/after school for assistance. I'm sure there are plenty now that can't make it for reason or another. There will always be.

Why are you so certain the current schedule is so terrific? I know many people that struggle with it and have to pay through the nose for before and after school care. The new schedule will save them time and some money in only needing after school care.

And if you aren't even staying here permanently why are you so vocal against the schedule? It doesn't effect you, leave it to the people that it does.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 24, 2009 09:47AM

"There are 168,000 students currently enrolled in Fairfax County.
According to my research 46,519 of them are high schoolers and 118,124 are preschool, elementary and middle school age. There are also 22,309 employees whose schedule would no doubt change with this proposal. I am no math major but it seems to me we are sacrificing the needs of the many to meet the needs of the few.
Here is the link to the Fairfax County statistics. http://www.fcps.edu/statis.htm"

I took this quote from the WAKE website.
Suburbanite, SLEEP people are in the minority. The proposal is causing problems for the majority of Fairfax County.

Those against the bell schedule proposal, we need you in numbers. These SLEEP people are in the minority and want to cause serious problems for the majority.

TONIGHT THE FIRST MEETINGS ARE AT:

Tuesday, February 24, 7 to 9 p.m.
Annandale High School, 4700 Medford Drive, Annandale (Map)
Longfellow Middle School, 2000 Westmoreland Street, Falls Church (Map)
Oak View Elementary School, 5004 Sideburn Road, Fairfax (Map)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 09:52AM

Liam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suburbanite argues against herself and makes WAKES
> point for us. Thank you. The Sleep Nazis bible,
> the National Sleep Foundation's research, admits
> that elementary school children need more and will
> likely get less sleep. Sleep cherry picks the
> research they site.
>
> Someone has to get the short straw??????? So it
> may as well be the vulnerable 12-15 year olds
> right? IT SHOULDN'T BE ANY STUDENT! What a
> loathsome thing so say. Very telling about the
> mindset of the sleep proponents.

And yet you still ignore the fact that the high schoolers are the ones getting screwed now.

In a perfect world, all the schools would start and stop at the same time and every kid would get a terrific education. This isn't a perfect world and with almost 170K kids, it's virtually impossible to do that. The proposed schedule was chosen by the task force as the best option, though I may disagree with that, and it doesn't add any additional costs to the transportation budget.

Both sides have valid points. I never said they didn't. I've only pointed out the research that supports later start times for high schoolers.

BTW, I knew someone would jump on that short straw comment. I knew you couldn't resist.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 24, 2009 09:59AM

Suburbanite,

Oppose the bell schedule proposal so that no one gets the "short straw". Let's get Fairfax County to come up with a reasonable solution for everyone. Under the bell schedule proposal, the elementary school kids with the 7:50 time will be sleep deprived, and the middle schoolers will lack extracurricular activities.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: ya know ()
Date: February 24, 2009 10:16AM

Unimpressed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> guster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The elementary school communities do not want
> to
> > start at 7:50 am. Middle school parents,
> staff
> > and students do not want a 9:40am-4:30pm
> schedule.
> >
> >
> > The posts on here show that the SLEEP
> proponents
> > are in the minority.
>
> The fact that you and a few of your pals post 100
> times on the same issue does not mean that you're
> in the majority. Some parents think the current
> proposals, while imperfect, are better than the
> current situation.


you're nuts - most people do not propose a change - they just have to work and live - these school board members are the minority and don't have a clue

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 24, 2009 10:45AM

Everyone agrees that teens need sleep. People who oppose the SLEEP change do not believe the upheaval of all FCPS school schedules will result in significant benefit to all students. One hour delayed start for most FCPS high schools (Langley, McLean and Lake Braddock will have even more time) is not going to be a significant improvement for teens' sleep, particularly when teens don't have parental support and healthy boundaries.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Against SLEEP ()
Date: February 24, 2009 10:46AM

Unfortunately, by the time the School Board started 'citizens public discussions' they pretty much made the decision. Just remember the school redistricting. So, unless there will be an overwhelming majority of people against later start times, they WILL implement it next year.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 24, 2009 10:50AM

From Totally Anonymous:

"There are 168,000 students currently enrolled in Fairfax County.
According to my research 46,519 of them are high schoolers and 118,124 are preschool, elementary and middle school age. There are also 22,309 employees whose schedule would no doubt change with this proposal. I am no math major but it seems to me we are sacrificing the needs of the many to meet the needs of the few.
Here is the link to the Fairfax County statistics. [www.fcps.edu]"

I took this quote from the WAKE website.
Suburbanite, SLEEP people are in the minority. The proposal is causing problems for the majority of Fairfax County.

Those against the bell schedule proposal, we need you in numbers. These SLEEP people are in the minority and want to cause serious problems for the majority.

TONIGHT THE FIRST MEETINGS ARE AT:

Tuesday, February 24, 7 to 9 p.m.
Annandale High School, 4700 Medford Drive, Annandale (Map)
Longfellow Middle School, 2000 Westmoreland Street, Falls Church (Map)
Oak View Elementary School, 5004 Sideburn Road, Fairfax (Map)

This is exactly what I was thinking, but you've got the numbers to prove it!

Thank you, Totally Anonymous! Elementary + middle school + staff >> high school students struggling with the current schedule.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Oakton Parent ()
Date: February 24, 2009 10:52AM

Community dialogue meetings are starting today:
http://fcps.edu/news/start.htm

SLEEP is very proactive group. If we don't fight them, they'll implement this change and ALL kids will suffer. It'll effect the teachers, after school activities, elementary school students - you name it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 24, 2009 10:59AM

Let the three high schools (Langley, McLean, Lake Braddock) change their schedules. That way people can genuinely see if it helps or not. What is the diabolical urge these parents have to change everyone's schedules?

How will daycare for elementary students be cheaper or easier with the new schedule?

How will disadvantaged students receive extra assistance if they cannot stay after school for tutoring/mentoring programs and catch the late bus home?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 11:09AM

Guster, not having to drop kids off at a center before work, and therefore pay the additional morning fee, makes it easier and potentially cheaper, though there may be an increase in the after school fee.

Here is an article from one member of the task force that addresses many of the issues that have been mentioned here.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=324712&paper=81&cat=110

Check it out. It also mentions how the schedule could possibly save the county money in transportation costs, to the tune of $750,000 over the current schedule.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 24, 2009 11:21AM

Suburbanite, thank you for the link. I do agree that the change in daycare arrangements might be simplified for some, but it's still speculation.

The current schedule is not perfect for some high school students. It's high school, after all. But at least in my area of Fairfax County, most students live within a 5-8 minute drive of the high school. If the schools with more challenging boundaries (like Langley) need the later start time, let them change it and see if it helps.

True, I'm not a homeowner, but I am a registered Virginia/Fairfax County resident (I am following the law), my students are in FCPS schools, and I am allowed to have an opinion. We made the decision to not buy because we did not feel comfortable with the way the county is managed.

I do not mind people wanting to change the system, but it should not be done to uniquely benefit a small, elite pocket of communities and end the much-needed tutoring programs for the middle school students.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 24, 2009 11:32AM

Here's the SLEEP spin. Very Orwellian/"1984":


http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/html/sleep_news.shtml

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 24, 2009 11:45AM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the SLEEP spin. Very Orwellian/"1984":
>
>
> http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/html/sleep_news.shtml


I just read the link and thanks. I am scratching my head over this...the SLEEP activists particularly Sandy Evans and others seemed excited over the fact that there would be just a bit more fewer buses to use if the SLEEP initiative is passed and because of that they feel that this should be carried on. Oh boy. Fairfax County has such a huge complicated system of working parents, both married and single with kids not to mention people with no kids. Should be interesting how the community meetings turn out this week.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:01PM

Furthermore, I had a talk with my high schooler about the proposed bell changes. She pointed out how would middle schoolers feel about walking home in the dark during the winter time particularly those who are walkers?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:03PM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> I do not mind people wanting to change the system,
> but it should not be done to uniquely benefit a
> small, elite pocket of communities and end the
> much-needed tutoring programs for the middle
> school students.


This is the only place that I've seen that says it's tailored for a specific group or community. Though I would be more likely to agree with you if LB,Langley, and McLean were all next to one another. They have the most outspoken communities, evidently, particularly LB since it was one of the counties newest schools and got a complete renovation before much older and needier schools.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:04PM

Robin Hood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Furthermore, I had a talk with my high schooler
> about the proposed bell changes. She pointed out
> how would middle schoolers feel about walking home
> in the dark during the winter time particularly
> those who are walkers?


Where do you live that's it is dark at 4:30?

And no one seems to have a problem with 14 year olds out at 6:20 in the morning in the winter now. Plenty dark then in December.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:09PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robin Hood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Furthermore, I had a talk with my high schooler
> > about the proposed bell changes. She pointed
> out
> > how would middle schoolers feel about walking
> home
> > in the dark during the winter time particularly
> > those who are walkers?
>
>
> Where do you live that's it is dark at 4:30?
>
> And no one seems to have a problem with 14 year
> olds out at 6:20 in the morning in the winter now.
> Plenty dark then in December.


It gets dark around 5 pm during the wintertime. What is a middle schooler to do when his or her parents either married or single are still working after they have had to adjust their work schedules? Then dinner time will be set later, so forth. I am sorry, but the proposed middle school hours does NOT just cut it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:13PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robin Hood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Furthermore, I had a talk with my high schooler
> > about the proposed bell changes. She pointed
> out
> > how would middle schoolers feel about walking
> home
> > in the dark during the winter time particularly
> > those who are walkers?
>
>
> Where do you live that's it is dark at 4:30?
>
> And no one seems to have a problem with 14 year
> olds out at 6:20 in the morning in the winter now.
> Plenty dark then in December.


Under the current bell schedule for instance in my area, middle schoolers are at the bus at 7:30 am so it is light out there. You are referring to 6:20 for high schoolers, not middle schoolers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:18PM

Thank you for your posts, Robin Hood. I appreciate other people speaking up.

Your information for middle school students applies to my area as well. Most of the middle schools currently start around 8 am, according to the website.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: taxpayer ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:23PM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone agrees that teens need sleep. People
> who oppose the SLEEP change do not believe the
> upheaval of all FCPS school schedules will result
> in significant benefit to all students. One hour
> delayed start for most FCPS high schools (Langley,
> McLean and Lake Braddock will have even more time)
> is not going to be a significant improvement for
> teens' sleep, particularly when teens don't have
> parental support and healthy boundaries.


So with all the teen drivers heading to Langley what will happen with the 2 lane roads like Georgetown Pike and balls Hill that lead to the American Legion bridge and DC? Maybe Langley should start at 10 pm flipping with or better yet share busses with Cooper. Do middle and high school students ride the same bus to lake braddock or do we send 2 to the same streets ?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:26PM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for your posts, Robin Hood. I
> appreciate other people speaking up.
>
> Your information for middle school students
> applies to my area as well. Most of the middle
> schools currently start around 8 am, according to
> the website.


You are welcome. I have a feeling these community meetings will meet with bluster between opponents and proponents of SLEEP. Somebody said there was a petition of at least 8500 signatures for SLEEP but what about the WAKE petition? Also I won't be surprised that the school board members have already made their decision, much like what they did with the redistricting last year.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:28PM

taxpayer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> guster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Everyone agrees that teens need sleep. People
> > who oppose the SLEEP change do not believe the
> > upheaval of all FCPS school schedules will
> result
> > in significant benefit to all students. One
> hour
> > delayed start for most FCPS high schools
> (Langley,
> > McLean and Lake Braddock will have even more
> time)
> > is not going to be a significant improvement
> for
> > teens' sleep, particularly when teens don't
> have
> > parental support and healthy boundaries.
>
>
> So with all the teen drivers heading to Langley
> what will happen with the 2 lane roads like
> Georgetown Pike and balls Hill that lead to the
> American Legion bridge and DC? Maybe Langley
> should start at 10 pm flipping with or better yet
> share busses with Cooper. Do middle and high
> school students ride the same bus to lake braddock
> or do we send 2 to the same streets ?


Start at 10 pm? :D Maybe you meant at 10 am?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:50PM

Robin Hood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suburbanite Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Robin Hood Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Furthermore, I had a talk with my high
> schooler
> > > about the proposed bell changes. She pointed
> > out
> > > how would middle schoolers feel about walking
> > home
> > > in the dark during the winter time
> particularly
> > > those who are walkers?
> >
> >
> > Where do you live that's it is dark at 4:30?
> >
> > And no one seems to have a problem with 14 year
> > olds out at 6:20 in the morning in the winter
> now.
> > Plenty dark then in December.
>
>
> Under the current bell schedule for instance in my
> area, middle schoolers are at the bus at 7:30 am
> so it is light out there. You are referring to
> 6:20 for high schoolers, not middle schoolers.


And when most kids start high school they are only 14 years old. No one seems to have an issue with a fourteen year old out at 6:20 in the morning to catch a bus that arrives a half hour before school even starts. That is certainly more dangerous than a twelve year old walking home at 4:30.

You never answered the question of where you live that it is dark at 4:30. But then, like so many of the posts against the proposed schedule, you don't answer the questions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 24, 2009 12:55PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robin Hood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Suburbanite Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Robin Hood Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Furthermore, I had a talk with my high
> > schooler
> > > > about the proposed bell changes. She
> pointed
> > > out
> > > > how would middle schoolers feel about
> walking
> > > home
> > > > in the dark during the winter time
> > particularly
> > > > those who are walkers?
> > >
> > >
> > > Where do you live that's it is dark at 4:30?
> > >
> > > And no one seems to have a problem with 14
> year
> > > olds out at 6:20 in the morning in the winter
> > now.
> > > Plenty dark then in December.
> >
> >
> > Under the current bell schedule for instance in
> my
> > area, middle schoolers are at the bus at 7:30
> am
> > so it is light out there. You are referring to
> > 6:20 for high schoolers, not middle schoolers.
>
>
> And when most kids start high school they are only
> 14 years old. No one seems to have an issue with
> a fourteen year old out at 6:20 in the morning to
> catch a bus that arrives a half hour before school
> even starts. That is certainly more dangerous than
> a twelve year old walking home at 4:30.
>
> You never answered the question of where you live
> that it is dark at 4:30. But then, like so many
> of the posts against the proposed schedule, you
> don't answer the questions.


Let me rephrase this, I am a resident of Fairfax County, grew up just about all my life and had no problem with the current bell schedule when I attended FCPS schools. It gets dark around 5 pm in the winter time across the area all over Fairfax County. You don't need to know specifically where I live, do you?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 01:26PM

No, I don't really want to know where you live. But it isn't dark anywhere in Fairfax County at 4:30, the latest proposed ending time. Plus, the schedule has built in allotment for modifying the times, and possibly making the middle schools end earlier after implementation. Maybe it should be adjusted before implementation, isn't that why there's going to be hearings? So the community can voice those very concerns?

My point was that your argument of middle schoolers walking home in the dark is groundless.

Whether you had any problems with the schedule growing up here or not really isn't the argument. Research has shown a significant improvement in performance across ALL grades when the schedules are switched. Improved attitudes, better attendance, more involvement in activities, less accidents. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Why would you vote against a way to improve students performance? Just because you don't want to see change? Rather closed minded.

Just shouting "leave things as they are" makes very little sense, and that seems to be the message of those against the proposed schedule.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: TJ Hooker ()
Date: February 24, 2009 02:14PM

Why not adapt to the Thomas Jefferson model of school times? We used to start at 8am and went all the way to 4:30pm. Like a job, but with better chance of going to a better school.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Vienna mom ()
Date: February 24, 2009 02:15PM

Here is the interesting info: http://wakefairfax.googlepages.com/

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 24, 2009 02:25PM

I don't think the school board has made up its mind, remember they kept changing the proposed boundary lines for the schools because of the public's concerns.

People against the bell proposal need to show up at the meetings and voice their concerns. There are so many different groups of people angry about the proposal, that I am confident the proposal will be stopped. Look at the numbers:

"There are 168,000 students currently enrolled in Fairfax County.
According to my research 46,519 of them are high schoolers and 118,124 are preschool, elementary and middle school age. There are also 22,309 employees whose schedule would no doubt change with this proposal. I am no math major but it seems to me we are sacrificing the needs of the many to meet the needs of the few.
Here is the link to the Fairfax County statistics. [www.fcps.edu]"

I took this quote from the WAKE website.

When people signed the SLEEP petition, the petition didn't also say, oh btw, there will be a bell proposal out there that will make everyone hopping mad.

To sign several petitions against the proposal, click on this link:

http://wakefairfax.googlepages.com/action

There are also talking points on this link for the meetings.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: aparent ()
Date: February 24, 2009 02:53PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But it isn't dark anywhere in Fairfax County at
> 4:30, the latest proposed ending time.

Ok, you need to understand that the "end time" means that is when the bell will ring and the last class will be dismissed. Then there is about 10 minutes of going to your locker, getting your stuff and getting out the front door. Most busses don't leave the school until 10-15 minutes after the dismissal bell rings. So, in this scenario with a 4:30pm "ending time" the first bus will not pull out of the parking lot until say 4:40-4:45 and assume the whole process for any given middle school with say (400-600) kids takes 10-15 minutes. That means that the last bus is pulling out of the lot at 4:50ish. A mere 10-15 minute ride (and many are much longer than that with all the stops they make). So that gets the very first middle schooler who was dimissed at 4:30 home at say 5:00pm. And that is the best case scenario. Many will be dropped off much later.

Case in point, the elementary school around the block from my house and less than 3/4 of a mile away(and my kids get a bus because they would have to cross a main street) is dismissed at 3:20 and the bus stops at the corner at 3:45pm!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 03:34PM

That sounds really good, but the high school near me lets out at 2:10 and the kids are dropped off at the bus stop across the street at 2:27 at the latest.

Kinda blows your 'theory' out of the water.

The high school has considerably more students and buses and yet they manage to get out and at least drop off some of the kids within 20 minutes of the last bell.

And the local elementary releases at 3:40 and the bus stops at 3:55, sometimes earlier. The scenario you mention makes me wonder about the procedures at your local schools. Seems like they are delaying releasing the buses unnecessarily.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Steve K ()
Date: February 24, 2009 03:46PM

That's a lie. Busses usualy leave 15 minutes after the bell. Kids do need to get stuff out of their lockers before they go home, and in a crowded hallways 15 minutes cuts its close a lot. My nephew lives at Poplar Tree, right down the road from Chantilly, he does not get home till 2:40pm and they let out at 2:05. There are much further away bus stops as well.

Geez, Suburbanite is the classic SLEEP nazi, she'll throw out anything to get this passed. It will not happen.



Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That sounds really good, but the high school near
> me lets out at 2:10 and the kids are dropped off
> at the bus stop across the street at 2:27 at the
> latest.
>
> Kinda blows your 'theory' out of the water.
>
> The high school has considerably more students and
> buses and yet they manage to get out and at least
> drop off some of the kids within 20 minutes of the
> last bell.
>
> And the local elementary releases at 3:40 and the
> bus stops at 3:55, sometimes earlier. The
> scenario you mention makes me wonder about the
> procedures at your local schools. Seems like they
> are delaying releasing the buses unnecessarily.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 24, 2009 03:54PM

Totally Anonymouse and Suburbanite,

It might be more productive for parents with different perspectives and concerns to get together first, rather than relying on FCPS to "come up with a reasonable solution."

Totally Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suburbanite,
>
> Oppose the bell schedule proposal so that no one
> gets the "short straw". Let's get Fairfax County
> to come up with a reasonable solution for
> everyone. Under the bell schedule proposal, the
> elementary school kids with the 7:50 time will be
> sleep deprived, and the middle schoolers will lack
> extracurricular activities.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 03:58PM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totally Anonymouse and Suburbanite,
>
> It might be more productive for parents with
> different perspectives and concerns to get
> together first, rather than relying on FCPS to
> "come up with a reasonable solution."
>
> Totally Anonymous Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Suburbanite,
> >
> > Oppose the bell schedule proposal so that no
> one
> > gets the "short straw". Let's get Fairfax
> County
> > to come up with a reasonable solution for
> > everyone. Under the bell schedule proposal,
> the
> > elementary school kids with the 7:50 time will
> be
> > sleep deprived, and the middle schoolers will
> lack
> > extracurricular activities.


You must be new to this topic. The task force that presented this proposal was made up of around 70 commmunity members, last summer there were parent meetings with the school board on the topic, and now there are public hearings and surveys. It's not being decided by a 'select few' as some on this site would have you believe, but by those that actually have bothered to get involved.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 24, 2009 04:07PM

Steve K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a lie. Busses usualy leave 15 minutes
> after the bell. Kids do need to get stuff out of
> their lockers before they go home, and in a
> crowded hallways 15 minutes cuts its close a lot.
> My nephew lives at Poplar Tree, right down the
> road from Chantilly, he does not get home till
> 2:40pm and they let out at 2:05. There are much
> further away bus stops as well.
>
> Geez, Suburbanite is the classic SLEEP nazi,
> she'll throw out anything to get this passed. It
> will not happen.
>
>
>
> Suburbanite Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That sounds really good, but the high school
> near
> > me lets out at 2:10 and the kids are dropped
> off
> > at the bus stop across the street at 2:27 at
> the
> > latest.
> >
> > Kinda blows your 'theory' out of the water.
> >
> > The high school has considerably more students
> and
> > buses and yet they manage to get out and at
> least
> > drop off some of the kids within 20 minutes of
> the
> > last bell.
> >
> > And the local elementary releases at 3:40 and
> the
> > bus stops at 3:55, sometimes earlier. The
> > scenario you mention makes me wonder about the
> > procedures at your local schools. Seems like
> they
> > are delaying releasing the buses unnecessarily.


Call me a liar all you want, it's the truth for the local schools that drop off across the street from me. If it makes you feel better to think otherwise, go ahead. My high schooler specifically states that the bus leaves ten minutes after the bell rings.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 24, 2009 04:08PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> APorIBMom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Totally Anonymouse and Suburbanite,
> >
> > It might be more productive for parents with
> > different perspectives and concerns to get
> > together first, rather than relying on FCPS to
> > "come up with a reasonable solution."
> >
> > Totally Anonymous Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Suburbanite,
> > >
> > > Oppose the bell schedule proposal so that no
> > one
> > > gets the "short straw". Let's get Fairfax
> > County
> > > to come up with a reasonable solution for
> > > everyone. Under the bell schedule proposal,
> > the
> > > elementary school kids with the 7:50 time
> will
> > be
> > > sleep deprived, and the middle schoolers will
> > lack
> > > extracurricular activities.
>
>
> You must be new to this topic. The task force
> that presented this proposal was made up of around
> 70 commmunity members, last summer there were
> parent meetings with the school board on the
> topic, and now there are public hearings and
> surveys. It's not being decided by a 'select few'
> as some on this site would have you believe, but
> by those that actually have bothered to get
> involved.


Oh right. Yeah. For some reason I take it that you are involved staying on top of this with your school board member? While many parents are at their wits end trying to get responses from their school board members about their concerns related to the school system. It all started out with around 70 community members about the bell changes leading to now an all out war about the bell changes? How did you know it started out with 70 community members to discuss about the bell changes? Just curious.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: aparent ()
Date: February 24, 2009 04:29PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
. My high schooler specifically
> states that the bus leaves ten minutes after the
> bell rings.


That's exactly what we are saying "the bus leaves 10 minutes AFTER the bell rings". So, if the bell rings at 4:30 the bus is leaving at 4:40, then it depends on how close you live to the school.... some kids will not get to their bus stop until 5pm or later.

Gosh, you just proved our theory... maybe you SLEEP people should get your answers straight

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: concerned parent ()
Date: February 24, 2009 04:35PM

I dislike the Middle School Hours. I do not want my young daughter walking to or from school. There are more working parents than non-working in this area.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: APorIBMom ()
Date: February 24, 2009 05:14PM

Suburbanite, I know about the Transportation Task Force. However, it appears that a significant group of other well-meaning FCPS parents have concerns about the staff-designed version of the proposed revenue-neutral bell schedule that may not have been fully considered during the TTF meetings. I think that if a larger group of parents - from SLEEP, the high school Athletic Booster groups, etc. - met to discuss the issues, they could find common ground.

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You must be new to this topic. The task force
> that presented this proposal was made up of around
> 70 commmunity members, last summer there were
> parent meetings with the school board on the
> topic, and now there are public hearings and
> surveys. It's not being decided by a 'select few'
> as some on this site would have you believe, but
> by those that actually have bothered to get
> involved.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: ToCinderella ()
Date: February 24, 2009 05:20PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That sounds really good, but the high school near
> me lets out at 2:10 and the kids are dropped off
> at the bus stop across the street at 2:27 at the
> latest.
>
> Kinda blows your 'theory' out of the water.
>
> The high school has considerably more students and
> buses and yet they manage to get out and at least
> drop off some of the kids within 20 minutes of the
> last bell.
>
> And the local elementary releases at 3:40 and the
> bus stops at 3:55, sometimes earlier. The
> scenario you mention makes me wonder about the
> procedures at your local schools. Seems like they
> are delaying releasing the buses unnecessarily.

Our high school gets out at 2:04 and the kids don't get off the bus in our neighborhood until 2:55 (and, no, we don't go to Langley). As you said earlier, the transportation office makes up the schedule. So no, the school is not deterring the release of buses. But, if you had done your research, you would understand the whole county does not operate as you imagine in your own little corner.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Wastey ()
Date: February 24, 2009 05:26PM

APorIBMom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suburbanite, I know about the Transportation Task
> Force. However, it appears that a significant
> group of other well-meaning FCPS parents have
> concerns about the staff-designed version of the
> proposed revenue-neutral bell schedule that may
> not have been fully considered during the TTF
> meetings. I think that if a larger group of
> parents - from SLEEP, the high school Athletic
> Booster groups, etc. - met to discuss the issues,
> they could find common ground.
>
>
How about we save everybody the time and money and leave things the way they are. There should be nothing to discuss or "work-out." With all of the misfortune and crap going on in the world how about we start using our time and money for a more worthy cause. Not some petty issue that should be resolved in-house.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 25, 2009 12:26PM

Liam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suburbanite argues against herself and makes WAKES
> point for us. Thank you. The Sleep Nazis bible,
> the National Sleep Foundation's research, admits
> that elementary school children need more and will
> likely get less sleep. Sleep cherry picks the
> research they site.
>
> Someone has to get the short straw??????? So it
> may as well be the vulnerable 12-15 year olds
> right? IT SHOULDN'T BE ANY STUDENT! What a
> loathsome thing so say. Very telling about the
> mindset of the sleep proponents.


Well as long as it is not my little sleep head, POO POO on your elem. and middle school kids!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: aparent ()
Date: February 25, 2009 01:07PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well as long as it is not my little sleep head,
> POO POO on your elem. and middle school kids!!!!

Seriously Suburbanite, this is the answer you have to why the proposed bell schedule should pass...

This just proves that the SLEEP group doesn't give a crap about anyone but themselves and their own kids. They are just pushing their own personal agendas under the guise of helping all teens. What a crock!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 25, 2009 01:18PM

Unfortunately, since this is an anonymous forum, anyone can post as anyone else, except perhaps for those who have registered. Not sure. But since I was at the dentist when the poser 'suburbanite' posted, it wasn't me. And like I've said before, I support the new schedule, but I'm not having a fit about it. If it passes, fine, if it doesn't, so be it. Life goes on and everyone will deal with the end result.

And I've said it before, give me something to support leaving the high schoolers at the early start time and I'll read it with an open mind. But NO ONE has done anything even remotely close to presenting why they should continue to go in so early other than to say, 'it's the way it was when I was in school'.

Well, it was a whole lot easier to graduate in Fairfax county years ago. I actually did graduate from Fairfax and now I have kids that are going through the schools. Trust me, the work load is considerably more now. The school year is logner and the day is longer. The demands on the students are considerably greater.


BTW, thanks poser. Impersonation is the greatest form of flattery.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: The Orig. Suburbanite ()
Date: February 25, 2009 01:40PM

Suburbanite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Well as long as it is not my little sleep head,
> POO POO on your elem. and middle school kids!!!!


Come on, seriously, POO POO?

I just can't get over that one.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 25, 2009 01:41PM

I admit I lied about the bus coming just a mere 15 minutes after school lets out. I have no idea. I want change so bad, but clearly being so under appreciated by my family, I have not thought of other families. I am out to ruin them, as I will never have what they have, I am an old grouchy woman.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: TheOrigSuburbanite ()
Date: February 25, 2009 01:41PM

And now, it seems Suburbanite has been registered by the poser.

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